Oral Questions

Point of order, Mr Speaker. Due to travel arrangements, I’m asking the House’s permission to have question No. 9 moved up to at least question No. 4 on today’s Order Paper.

Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.

Question No. 1—Women

1. to the Minister for Women: Does she stand by all her statements and actions regarding pay equity?

on behalf of the Minister for Women: Yes, in the context in which they were made.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Why does she claim that she is satisfied that the Government’s pay equity changes are fair, when, as NZEI put it, the Government gave their plan a little project name, Project 10, while workers kept working on claims in good faith?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: I thank the member for her question. On behalf of the Minister, the substance of fairness about the pay equity system is about the actual system in place, not the title of any particular Cabinet-related documents that happened before the system was established.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Why were 180,000 hard-working Kiwis—predominantly women—and organisations encouraged to keep investing time, money, and hope into pay equity claims, when the Government were already on a pathway to cancelling them?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: It is really important that we have a pay equity system that works. That is what this Government has established. We do have a pay equity system. It is also possible for anybody to take a claim. I’m very heartened by the fact that in the news this week, I believe, there were union members who suggested that they were going to, quite soon, take a claim under the new system to see how it works.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Has the Minister received advice on the amount of resources and funding that continued to be invested while the Government’s Project 10 plan was under way?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: As I have suggested earlier, the pay equity system remains. There is a system for people to use for any claims between unions and employers. Information that was gathered and information that could be used for a claim can still be used, if it is valid, for a claim under the current system—and I note that must be the case for some of the people who are looking to take a claim quite soon under the new system.

Hon Jo Luxton: Why does she claim she’s satisfied that the Government’s pay equity changes are fair, when 62 percent of Rural Women New Zealand members surveyed said the new pay equity claim threshold is not fair?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: The system is fair because it is looking to create instances of finding genuine sex-based undervaluation. It is a fair system when the system does what it says it does.

Hon Jo Luxton: Were the 75 percent of Rural Women New Zealand members surveyed wrong when they expressed concerns that these changes will impact the sustainability of essential rural services, such as healthcare and education?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: On behalf of the Minister, I acknowledge and accept there will be a range of differing opinion. There is not one cohesive thought on pay equity across the country; however, it is also the case that the Minister for Women has a good relationship with a number of stakeholders that she draws on for advice. It is also the case that this Government is committed to a pay equity scheme. I’m also heartened by the fact that there are union members who are going to use the new system.

Hon David Seymour: Are New Zealand’s workers wrong when 84 percent of them choose not to join a union?

SPEAKER: That’s quite outside the question.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: How can anyone trust this Government when it betrays—

SPEAKER: No, start that one again too. You can’t have a Minister answering for the whole Government; that’s not reasonable.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: How can anyone trust this Minister, when she betrays workers by letting them invest time—

SPEAKER: No, you can’t use language like that. Sorry, I’ve been asked to be very pedantic about answers and everything else; I have to do the same with questions. You can’t make an accusation like that.

Hon Carmel Sepuloni: How can anyone trust this Minister when workers and organisations were expected to invest time, energy, and money into claims, when they had already decided to cancel them?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: The fact of the matter is that people can take a claim. People are looking to do a claim using information that they already had access to, using resources that they already had access to. This Government is committed to a pay equity system. I’m very heartened by the fact that people are looking to take claims under the new system.

Question No. 2—Energy

2. to the Minister for Energy: Has Cabinet considered the recommendations of the Frontier Economics review of the electricity market; if so, will the recommendations involve Government intervention in the electricity market?

No. The Government will make announcements on the Frontier report and the Government’s response to it when it has been fully considered, and in due course.

Scott Willis: Who was right: the Associate Minister for Energy, who said, in relation to the energy sector, that “Now is the time for urgency and bold ideas.”; or the Minister for Energy, who said, “small, surgical interventions will make a big difference and drive real results for Kiwi households and businesses”?

Hon SIMON WATTS: Both are, obviously, right. The context which I noted was that we would be looking to make surgical interventions into the energy market. What I failed to note is I’m also a registered paramedic.

Scott Willis: Can he commit that any reform of the electricity market will deliver lower energy bills for households, businesses, and industry; and, if not, why not?

Hon SIMON WATTS: Well, as I noted in the response to my primary answer, the Government will announce its response to the energy market review in due course. However, my main priority as Minister for Energy is to ensure that we have both energy security and energy affordability, and I expect the recommendations that we will be making will deal with both of those aspects.

Scott Willis: Will he consider the renationalisation of the gentailers, as proposed by his associate energy Minister; or does he agree with the Deputy Prime Minister, who said this would damage investor confidence?

Hon SIMON WATTS: The member is just going to need to be patient. As I said, the Government will announce its response to the energy market review in due course.

Scott Willis: Does he think that it gives the energy sector confidence when the energy Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, and the associate energy Minister all appear to be publicly at odds over the best way to move forward on electricity market reform?

Hon SIMON WATTS: I don’t agree with the premise of that question. What is clear is that, on this side of the House, we are committed to ensuring New Zealand has energy security and we have affordable energy for New Zealanders. The reality of what we are dealing with is a result of decisions made by prior Governments that have put us in this position, and we will not stand by and not take the necessary action to get us back on track.

SPEAKER: In line with the House’s agreement earlier, I think we now take question No. 9 in the name of the Hon Peeni Henare.

Question No. 9—Foreign Affairs

9. to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Will the Government implement sanctions against Israel for its unlawful occupation of the Palestinian Territory as called for by UN resolution 10/24, which New Zealand voted for?

We already have. The resolution called on States to implement sanctions, including travel bans, against people engaged in illegal and violent settlement activity in the occupied Palestinian territory. That is precisely what we have done. Over the past 18 months, the New Zealand Government has imposed travel bans on two Israeli Ministers as well as 35 extremist settlers. We’ve made it clear that these people are not welcome in New Zealand, because they have actively undermined the two-State solution by illegally settling in the West Bank, perpetrated or advocated violence, and displaced Palestinian civilians from their homes.

Hon Peeni Henare: Does he accept the International Court of Justice finding that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank is in breach of the provision on apartheid in the convention on the elimination of racial discrimination?

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: That is a misinterpretation of the International Court’s finding.

Hon Peeni Henare: Why is New Zealand yet to join Australia, our only formal international ally, in recognising Palestine as a State?

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Because we are a very proud democracy with advances in the democratic system way beyond Australia’s, going back two centuries, and we make our own decisions carefully and quietly after we have heard all the evidence, which we will have the best chance to have when we get to New York. Only fools test the water with both feet.

Hon Peeni Henare: Does he agree with the United Nations that Palestinian people have a right to self-determination—an inalienable right that cannot be subject to conditions of the occupying powers?

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: That is a pronouncement from the United Nations that we have always agreed with.

Hon Peeni Henare: What is his message to the thousands of people expected to march across the Auckland Harbour Bridge on Saturday in protest of this Government’s unwillingness to speak out against the unfolding genocide in Gaza?

Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well, that’d be a totally wasted blockage of people’s transport and time on Saturday, if that is what the purpose of the march is. However, I know they have a penchant for display rather than any hard, serious work, whereas this Government has found enormous amounts of funds for the Palestinian people and made every effort we can to help through other organisations as well, like the Red Cross, rather than just all talk and virtue signalling.

Question No. 3—Economic Growth

3. to the Minister for Economic Growth: What recent announcements has she made on supermarket competition?

I recently announced steps to remove barriers that prevent competitor supermarkets from launching or expanding here. Among these changes is the creation of an express lane for new supermarkets, to boost competition and deliver better deals for Kiwi shoppers. This is just one of many things the Government is doing to address the lack of competition in our grocery market. This is good news for Kiwi shoppers, who are paying higher prices and have less choice than they would have if there was more competition.

Cameron Brewer: What is the express lane for new supermarkets?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The express lane addresses widespread frustration with restrictive zoning, slow consenting, and cumbersome regulations that prevent potential competitors from opening the doors of a new supermarket. As part of the express lane, legislation will soon be introduced to amend the Fast-track Approvals Act, to make it clear that new supermarkets that would improve grocery competition will qualify as fast-track referrable projects, and I urge members of this House who want a better deal for shoppers to support that legislation. Building consenting processes for new supermarkets will also be streamlined by selecting a single building consent authority to standardise decisions for grocery developments, and Building Act regulations will be amended to allow pre-approved, MultiProof building plans for multiple grocery developments.

Cameron Brewer: What else is the Government doing for supermarket competition?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The Government’s focus is on regulatory, enforcement, and structural areas. The Overseas Investment Act is being improved, and new guidance has been published to support grocery investments. The Commerce Act will be amended to better combat predatory pricing, and we are actively looking at options around the importation of food into the country. The Government is determined to enable stronger competition in the supermarket sector. Potential competitors have told us that the changes we are making will help them to do that. For example, Costco has confirmed that the express lane will assist with their future expansion plans, which is great news for shoppers.

Cameron Brewer: What structural work is under way?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Some responses to our request for information argued that the only way to truly improve supermarket competition is for the Government to forcibly break up Foodstuffs and/or Woolworths, because they hold entrenched market positions and market power. That would be a significant intervention, with costs and risks that need to be rigorously weighed against the potential benefits to shoppers. The Government has commissioned a cost-benefit analysis on specific options for restructuring the duopoly. We also remain open to potential market-led solutions that may be put forward by the major incumbents.

Question No. 4—Health

4. to the Minister of Health: Has he been involved in collective agreement negotiations with doctors and nurses; if so, how?

on behalf of the Minister of Health: On behalf of the Minister of Health—and a very good guy he is—no, I have not been involved. However, I have written to two of the parties in the senior doctors’ negotiations after they had had meditation—sorry, mediation; although meditation might help at this point—facilitated bargaining, and an Employment Relations Authority recommendation, suggesting that they might like to go to binding arbitration.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Why did he directly intervene in senior doctors’ bargaining to argue for binding arbitration, and has his intervention delayed a settlement?

Hon DAVID SEYMOUR: In answer to the first part of the question: as I just said, mediation, facilitated bargaining, and a recommendation by the Employment Relation Authority and still no agreement and still patients missing out on procedures that they desperately need. In that circumstance, I decided to propose a better solution so that they could get back in the operating theatres and back in the clinics and the hospitals to serve the patients. Has that delayed the progress? No, I don’t believe it has.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Why did he agree to an Order in Council changing employer responsibilities and the bargaining team during the New Zealand Nurses Organisation bargaining, and could this action have delayed a settlement?

Hon DAVID SEYMOUR: First of all, I did it because my underlying driver—this is on behalf of the Minister of Health—in everything I do is to improve outcomes for patients, because, for too long, too much money has been poured in for the results that we’ve got. We need to ensure that when we put more taxpayer money into healthcare—as this Government has: $2 billion more than when we were elected to now; $2 billion more—we need to make sure we’re getting results for that. I responded to the circumstances, motivated by care for the patients.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Did he or his office direct Health New Zealand to withhold official information related to safe staffing levels sought by the nurse’s union in relation to their pay claim?

Hon DAVID SEYMOUR: On behalf of the Minister of Health, I am not in a position to address that question. That is a question about a specific action that would only be known by the Minister. However, based on everything that I know of Simeon Brown, that sounds very unlikely.

Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Why did he display a provocative sign in his parliamentary office to striking nurses, and does he accept that that behaviour would make a settlement less likely?

Hon DAVID SEYMOUR: On behalf of the Minister of Health, it is the member’s characterisation that it was provocative. However, I would say that alerting people to the welfare of patients is actually the core job of the Minister of Health. When I hear that that could somehow delay a settlement, let’s just consider for a moment what this Labour member is suggesting. They’re suggesting that because the Minister of Health put a sign advocating for the rights of patients on his own electorate office door, nurses would strike for longer and deny patients more care. I mean, I think the public can make up their mind for themselves. That’s an absurd proposition from the Labour Party.

Question No. 5—Education

5. to the Minister of Education: What recent announcement has she made on the secondary school curriculum?

Today, I announced the senior secondary subject list, for years 11 to 13 students, in both the New Zealand Curriculum and Te Marautanga o Aotearoa. We have introduced dynamic, innovative new subjects that will engage and inspire learners as part of what we are continuing to focus on, which is raising achievement and closing the equity gap. These new subjects will be phased in from 2028, starting with year 11, to create a modern curriculum which recognises the growing importance of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) subjects, as well as other relevant learning areas. To give students more choice, we’re also introducing new strengthened, industry-led subjects which will be tertiary aligned so students are best prepared for future study, training, and employment.

Dana Kirkpatrick: What are some of the new subjects?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Well, we’re introducing a range of exciting new subjects across the curriculum. In the area of STEM, students will be able to take subjects like further maths, statistics and data science, and electronics and mechatronics. We’re also introducing music technology; civics, politics, and philosophy; media, journalism, and communications; Pacific studies; and te mātai i te ao Māori. In Te Marautanga, we’ve created nine new subject areas, including tātai arorangi, te ao Māori, and te ao whakairo, as well as—for the first time ever—curriculum provision in te reo Māori at years 12 and 13, right across the subject areas, which should have been done much earlier. Thank you to Rawiri Wright, from Te Rūnanga Nui, for advocating for the inclusion of te ao Māori.

Dana Kirkpatrick: What are some of the new industry-led subjects?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: Well, to engage students through more choice, we’re also introducing new strengthened, industry-led subjects. Whether a young person wants to be a master builder, an automotive engineer, a teacher, or a lawyer, the curriculum should set them up for success, not split them into separate lanes. These subjects include primary industry, health and wellbeing services, outdoor education, automotive engineering, building and construction, infrastructure engineering, mechanical engineering, tourism and hospitality, and more. We are proposing an integrated system where all subjects, whether they’re ministry-led or industry-led, are equal in status, and these subjects will be industry-led and tertiary aligned. Excitingly, students taking these industry-led subjects will likely exit high school with both a secondary qualification and a tertiary qualification at level 2 or 3.

Dana Kirkpatrick: What feedback has she seen on the announcement?

Hon ERICA STANFORD: One teacher remarked that it’s great to see philosophy as a subject, stating that, previously, they had to piece together unrelated standards from other subjects to try and offer it. BusinessNZ CEO, Katherine Rich, said the inclusion of future-focused subject areas in NCEA reform is a positive step forward, preparing New Zealanders for a rapidly changing world of work. We want our students to have access to innovative, dynamic subjects that give every student the skills and confidence to thrive in their chosen field.

Question No. 6—Workplace Relations and Safety

6. to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does she stand by her comments about the new appointments to the Employment Relations Authority; if so, why?

I stand by my comments, in the context in which they were made—though I accept that my statements could have been clearer—that I make my appointments based on merit and I respect the independence of the authority. In particular, I stand by my comment that I’m really pleased with the progress we’re making to better balance a mix of public and private experience among members to better reflect New Zealand’s employment landscape.

Hon Jan Tinetti: Does she think it is appropriate for a Government Minister to try and influence the judiciary?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: No.

Hon Jan Tinetti: Does she believe that businesses’ bottom lines matter more than working people’s right to awards?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: No.

Hon Jan Tinetti: Was she warned, prior to making her comments to BusinessDesk, that they could be seen as politicising the judiciary?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: No.

Hon David Seymour: Does she believe that, in the modern workplace, people should be nimble and agile and able to change track when a strategy is not working?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: Yes.

Hon Jan Tinetti: Has she accepted—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Just wait for a moment. Questions are heard in silence.

Hon Jan Tinetti: Has she accepted the advice from the Auditor-General of the need for “careful use of language when speaking of the judiciary”; and, if so, will she desist from similar comments in the future?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: I don’t believe the Auditor-General has reached out to me.

Question No. 7—Environment

7. to the Minister for the Environment: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?

Yes, in the context they were given.

Lan Pham: Does she stand by her statement from Tuesday, 9 September, in response to whether she sees her role in the fast-track process as advocating for the environment, that “Yes, I do get opportunity; I do bring environmental matters in my comments to the Minister,”?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Yes, there is a legal process, and I am involved in that legal process in giving comments—yes.

Lan Pham: Why, then, do her only publicly available comments on fast-track applications state that she is choosing not to provide any comment; and does she consider this as advocating for the environment?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: The timing of the information that goes up will dictate when my comments are put on to the application, but I can assure the member that I have made comments.

Lan Pham: What were her comments, then, on Waihi North’s silver and gold mining open-pit and underground mine extension from OceanaGold, where the Department of Conservation warned in their comments that the project could cause “irreversible harm to high-value conservation areas and species.”?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Well, as I’ve said, the comments come up as the application is made public, and where comments are being made by other entities such as local authorities, the Department of Conservation, or other departments, I don’t go and re-comment the sorts of comments they are making.

Lan Pham: How, then, can New Zealanders be assured that the fast-track process won’t see developers sidestepping critical environmental protections, when she chooses to be silent on even her basic responsibility as the Minister for the Environment to advocate for the environment?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: As I have said, where comments are necessary from me, I make comments that are relevant to those applications.

Lan Pham: Will she commit to advocating for the 16 water conservation orders that protect the outstanding and intrinsic values of some of our most valued water bodies—places like the Te Waikoropupū aquifer—so that they might have a chance at retaining some level of protection from fast-track projects?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: As the member knows, we are working through water conservation orders and other freshwater matters in the context of what is a very comprehensive replacement regime for the Resource Management Act. No decisions have been made yet, but we are certainly working through these processes.

Question No. 8—Tourism and Hospitality

8. to the Minister for Tourism and Hospitality: What recent reports has she seen on tourism in New Zealand?

Yesterday, international travel statistics were released for July. They showed 126,700 overseas visitor arrivals from Australia. This is the highest record month of arrivals of visitors from Australia. These visitors show our “Everyone Must Go” campaign targeting Australians was a huge success. These additional visitors help support local businesses, create more jobs, and strengthen our economy. Tourism is a crucial part of our Government’s Going For Growth agenda.

Joseph Mooney: What recent announcements has she seen that will benefit tourism across New Zealand?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Yesterday, I was delighted to see Qantas and Jetstar announce their biggest expansion plans for their New Zealand and trans-Tasman services. This will add a total of 660,000 seats a year and will bring more supply, which generally means lower prices for flights, and will encourage more Australians to cross the Ditch. This announcement, alongside July’s highest visitor levels of Australians, will be extremely beneficial to achieving our goal to double the value of tourism exports by 2034. This positive announcement shows that creating the right environment and conditions for business to invest in leads to economic growth. I want all airlines to know that they are being welcomed by our Government and we are very open to having more airline capacity into New Zealand.

Joseph Mooney: How has the Government supported yesterday’s announcement from Qantas and Jetstar?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Our Government has a clear plan for tourism growth with a 10-year tourism growth road map. Aviation connectivity is a key work stream within our road map, and I’m working closely with my colleagues and the industry to ensure the settings for aviation are fit for purpose and enable connectivity not just now but for the future. Yesterday’s announcement is a great step in the right direction. While these are commercial decisions from Qantas and Jetstar, it shows commitment to both international and domestic routes. Our Government has a clear priority to unleash economic growth, and tourism is a crucial part of it.

Joseph Mooney: How will more international visitors support economic growth?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: By investing in tourism, we are creating opportunities for growth, as tourism supports almost one in 10 jobs in New Zealand and contributes $44 billion to the economy. Every time a tourist comes to New Zealand and spends money in a shop, buys dinner in a cafe, and stays in one of our accommodation facilities, it’s good for jobs, it’s good for growth, and it’s good for local communities and the incomes of New Zealanders. When tourism grows, it lifts our economy, creates jobs, lifts wages, and helps Kiwis with the cost of living. Our message is clear: New Zealand is open for business, and we welcome anyone from anywhere at any time.

Question No. 10—Hunting and Fishing

10. to the Minister for Hunting and Fishing: What recent announcements has the Minister made in his hunting and fishing portfolio?

During the recess, I was very pleased to announce that from the 2025-26 angling season, which opens on 1 October, both adults on a family fishing licence will be able to now fish independently and have voting rights in Fish & Game elections. This is a common-sense change to modernise a historical anomaly which prevented the second adult on a licence—more often than not a woman—from fishing on their own. This is a really good announcement to encourage more women into fly-fishing. I’d like to thank groups like Women on The Fly New Zealand for advocating for this change for many years, as well as Fish & Game patron Dame Lynda Topp for giving me a few fly-fishing tips on the beautiful mid-Canterbury Rakaia River.

Suze Redmayne: What other changes can anglers expect for the 2025-26 season?

Hon JAMES MEAGER: More good news: alongside these common-sense changes to the family licence, I am pleased to officially confirm that there will be no price increases to Fish & Game angling licences for the first time in five seasons. Kiwis are doing it tough, and the last thing they need is another financial burden hitting their wallets when all they’re trying to do is put food on the table for their families.

Suze Redmayne: How else can New Zealanders get involved in hunting and fishing?

Hon JAMES MEAGER: As the House will have heard me say many times before, hunters are one of our best conservation assets. Currently under way is the National Wild Goat Hunting Competition, which is a partnership between the Department of Conservation and the New Zealand Deerstalkers Association. This is a great way for hunters and landowners to reduce the numbers of wild goats, which do serious damage to farms and the natural environment. I’m very pleased to inform the House that I myself have done my part, having taken out three wild goats already, and I’m sure all my fellow conservationists across the House will be taking out a few more old goats before the end of November.

SPEAKER: You shouldn’t tempt people like me!

Question No. 11—Children

11. to the Minister for Children: What immediate action, if any, is she taking in response to reports that there were 4,000 cases of tamariki and young people being held in police cells in the past 12 months, some for up to eight nights?

on behalf of the Minister for Children: I’ve not had to take any immediate action based on media reports, because this is something that I was already aware of. Police and Oranga Tamariki and the courts are working closely together to address this. The reality is that when a young person commits a serious crime, they do get arrested and taken into police custody, and then every effort is made to get them in front of the Youth Court so they can be moved to an alternative placement. Just the other week, the Minister visited Counties Manukau Police Station to see for herself where young people are held when they are in custody, and I want to take this opportunity to thank the staff there for their professionalism and their dedication to these young people. I do also think it is important to acknowledge that the safety of the community and of victims must also be of highest priority.

SPEAKER: I’m sure subsequent answers will be a little briefer.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Can the Minister confirm how many of those tamariki and young people held in police cells for longer than one night were Māori?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: Oranga Tamariki don’t do ancestry.com to figure out exactly what bloodlines people are. What they do do is take those children that have committed crimes and try to keep them in a safe space, and the priority is to make sure that they are kept safe.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: How is the Minister working with Oranga Tamariki to urgently increase capacity in viable placements, given that the number of cases of tamariki kept in police cells overnight has increased in two years from 42 to 418?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: On behalf of the Minister, Budget 2025 saw a $33 million investment in safety and quality improvements to the facilities at youth justice residences, as well as greater investment in transitional support for young serious offenders. I believe this investment will reduce the number of young people being held in police custody for extended periods of time.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Does the Minister support the Children’s Commissioner’s call to end the practice of detaining tamariki in police cells; and, if not, why not?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: On behalf of the Minister for Children, I have discussed this matter with the Children’s Commissioner in our regular meetings and on a number of occasions. We are both on the same page, which is that no one wants to see young people spend more time in custody than they need to.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: What specific measures, if any, is the Minister taking to prevent placement shortages becoming an excuse for locking children in cells?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: On behalf of the Minister for Children, it’s unfortunate that the Government, through their agencies, is having to pick up the pieces when children have gone out there and committed crime. At the end of the day, we want to make sure that they are safe, and that means that when they do go into police custody, it’s because they have committed a serious crime. Their safety will always be paramount when it comes to this Government and their actions with children.

Laura McClure: Can the Minister please tell the House what reports she has seen on youth crime statistics?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: What we’re seeing in youth crime statistics is that those rates are starting to come down. There is a difference that is occurring, and, as I have mentioned before, actually doing wraparound services with these kids and making sure that their safety is paramount is also exceptional to making sure that those rates come down. We are seeing slight improvements.

Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Is the Minister committed to introducing safer alternatives, including community-based and iwi initiatives, to adequately care for these tamariki, following warnings from the Children’s Commissioner that these cells expose tamariki to self-harm risk?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: I think what’s really important for everybody to know is that when our children are detained, they are being looked upon. We have Oranga Tamariki go into the cells at least once a day to check on the children and make sure that they’re OK. They are not kept with adults. There is a lot of work that’s being done to ensure the safety of these children. They are in cells because they have committed a crime, and the moment we get a placement for them, they are moved. I believe that it’s around 48 hours that children, on average, are kept—I need to be corrected on that if I’ve got that slightly wrong, on behalf of the Minister. However, what we do know is that in order to keep the children safe and in order to keep victims of our community safe, we will do the best we can by these children and make sure that they are cared for when they are detained.

Hon David Seymour: Will any of the funding appropriated in Budget 2025 help address the issue of children being kept overnight in police cells?

Hon NICOLE McKEE: Yes. The root cause of the issue of children and young people being arrested, whereby they are then held in police cells, is due to youth offending. Reducing the number of serious and persistent young offenders is a priority. Through Budget 2025, we are investing $21 million into safety improvements in youth justice facilities, $41 million into professionalisation of the residential workforce, $15 million for young serious offenders legislation, and $31 million into military-style academies.

Question No. 12—Vocational Education

12. to the Minister for Vocational Education: Does she stand by her statement that there is “more concern that we need to be focused on around the actual completions of apprentices”?

Yes, it is absolutely important that as many apprentices as possible are completing their apprenticeships.

Shanan Halbert: Has the completion of apprenticeships decreased again since 2023 under her watch; if so, by how much?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Yes, what has occurred is that there had been a very large intake of apprentices over the 2021-22 period, when Apprenticeship Boost was in full swing. During that time, many of those additional learners withdrew, and we saw a significant decline in credit achievements during that time, going down from 85 percent credit achievements in 2019 to 77 percent in 2020, to 67 percent in 2021, and to 69 percent in 2022. Those large numbers brought about reductions in the completion-of-credit rates, and that is, of course, flowing through.

Shanan Halbert: Is it correct that her cuts to the vocational education sector have made apprenticeship completion rates worse?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: What has impacted on the apprenticeship completion rate—recognising that most apprentices take around three to five years. What is showing the impact is the additional numbers taken in that did not complete sufficient credits, many of whom withdrew.

Shanan Halbert: What advice, if any, has she received on the increased number of young people not engaged in education, employment, or training since 2023?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: Across a range of areas, there has been advice on the increase in NEETs—those people under 25 not in employment, education, or training. That is why we are so focused on ensuring that we have additional youth guarantee places which pick up on young people under 25 who have had low prior achievement. It is why we are focused on ensuring that foundation education is available and accessible to those young people.

Shanan Halbert: How do more young people not in education, employment, or training; fewer enrolments in apprenticeships; and fewer apprenticeship completions contribute to ensuring that New Zealand has the workforce it needs?

Hon PENNY SIMMONDS: We are very focused on ensuring that our young people have access to further training so that they are well prepared to be able to go into employment. There is no doubt that the current financial situation, which we inherited from the previous Government, left us in a situation where we were having to battle high inflation and high interest rates, which has resulted in higher unemployment than any of us would like, but it is equally important that we have sufficient education and training available to ensure those young people are well skilled and well able to enter the workforce as the economy improves.