Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, and especially this Government’s action to improve road safety by going after drugged and drunk drivers. Our Government is absolutely committed to building great roads and Kiwis deserve to be safe when they drive on them, and alcohol and drugs are the number one cause of fatal crashes on New Zealand roads; in fact, around 30 percent of deaths on our roads involve drug-drivers. So our Government is taking action, with more funding for roadside tests as part of a package of $1.3 billion for road policing in the next three years. But we know funding isn’t enough, which is why we’re setting targets for alcohol and drug tests so we see better results for where the money is spent.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he stand by his statement, “Part of the history of modern New Zealand has been our struggle to understand the intentions and expectations of those who signed the Treaty. … That work is still happening and will keep going.”, and, if so, can he set out his understanding of Te Tiriti o Waitangi by telling the House whether he believes that Māori ceded sovereignty?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does the Prime Minister believe that Māori ceded sovereignty?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Our position is that the Crown is sovereign.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is it a fact that 102 years ago, in a major thesis, Sir Āpirana Ngata set out the very circumstances of the Treaty and he said that Māori ceded sovereignty—far closer to the action as he was, as were other Māori leaders of that time?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as I’ve said, our position is that the Crown is sovereign, and also—importantly—the Treaty of Waitangi has protections in there for both Crown and Māori interests.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Are we to take it from that answer that the Prime Minister believes that Māori ceded sovereignty?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I don’t know how I can be clearer in answer to the first question.

Chlöe Swarbrick: When did Māori cede sovereignty?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I’d just say to the member that we have the Treaty of Waitangi as the founding document of New Zealand; in there is protection for both Crown and Māori interests. But, as I’ve said to you, the position is very clear: Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Does his Government’s Treaty principles bill consider the Waitangi Tribunal’s finding from 10 years ago that “The rangatira who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi in February 1840 did not cede [their] sovereignty to Britain,” or does he intend to continue to sideline the Waitangi Tribunal?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We haven’t seen a Treaty principles bill yet.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, and especially our action to rein in inflation and to reduce the cost of living as part of our plan to rebuild the economy. We had a plan to fight inflation and we started work on day one: stopping the wasteful spending, removing costs on businesses, and returning the Reserve Bank to a single focus on inflation. Now, we see inflation is tracking down to 3.3 percent and heading lower, and last week brought more good news for every Kiwi with a mortgage, with the first cut to the official cash rate in 4½ years. We know life is tough out there, but there are encouraging early signs that our plan is working to get New Zealand back on track.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: What responsibility does he take for the fact that since he became Prime Minister, the monthly number of new building consents has dropped 26 percent, 6,000 jobs have gone from the building and construction sector, and 57 percent of construction businesses now report difficulties with Government procurement and work consent conditions, up from 36 percent last year?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, that is a function of bad economic mismanagement and vandalism from the previous administration that created something called inflation, and inflation works because if you have an 84 percent increase in spending—wasteful spending, much of it—you increase debt from $5 billion to $100 billion, and you hire 18,000 more public servants, you get high levels of domestic inflation. That then leads to high levels of interest rates. When interest rates go up, that leads to recession, which is what we’ve been experiencing—thank you to the previous Labour Government!—and, in turn, that leads to rising unemployment. That’s why this Government is working incredibly hard on the root causes of the problem, which is actually getting inflation down so we can get interest rates down, and so we get the economy growing and we keep people in work.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Well, is the Civil Contractors association—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: No, hang on, just—sorry. Please don’t talk while someone is asking a question.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Is Civil Contractors New Zealand CEO Alan Pollard wrong when he said, “We have this strange situation where there’s a mountain of infrastructure work that the country needs, and it’s coming”—but then goes on to say—“but since the election, everything has stopped, effectively.”

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What is happening is there’s no doubt that is a sector experiencing the impacts of inflation, which is a gift from the previous administration. But, importantly, this is a Government that wants to get things built, and I really appreciate the member’s interest in the area of infrastructure and I’d ask him to come on board and support our fast-track legislation.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Why does the latest Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors’ global monitor survey report that New Zealand’s construction sector is now the most depressed since that survey started and is the most depressed in the world, with more than half of respondents citing as a reason the change in Government in October 2023, which resulted in cuts, delays, and policy change?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Oh, my goodness—oh, my goodness. I just don’t know where to start—what a gift. What I’d just say to that member is—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: No, just—hold on. You can’t ask a question, from your leader, and then just barrack like crazy so you don’t get the answer. Please. Perhaps we’ll ask the question again, and then we’ll have the answer reasonably presented.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Very happy to, Mr Speaker. Why does the latest Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors’ global monitor survey report that New Zealand’s construction sector is now the most depressed since the survey started and is the most depressed in the world, with more than half of respondents citing as the major reason the change in Government in October 2023, which resulted in cuts, delays, and policy change?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: The reason that that sector is feeling it pretty tough is because of something called inflation, high interest rates, and recession, which was a gift from the previous administration. We have a Government here that wants to invest in infrastructure, and make sure it’s modern and reliable infrastructure that drives economic productivity in this country. We’ve taken the genius idea from David Parker about fast-track provisions; we’re putting it in and expanding it further. I’d ask him to come on board and support the rule, if he’s serious about building infrastructure.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Supplementary question, Mr Speaker.

SPEAKER: Yeah, could I just make the point that all the barracking and interjection doesn’t make an answer turn into the answer that someone might be wanting to hear. By all means, carry on.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: What’s the total value in dollar terms of the infrastructure projects that have been cancelled or delayed since his Government took office, including school rebuilds and expansions, roading projects, rail upgrades, hospital rebuilds, State house upgrades and new builds, and public transport projects?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I’m sure if the member gives a specific question, we can get him a specific answer, but what I would say is that there is $68 billion in this year’s Budget for infrastructure. I would also point to the member that having projects with names doesn’t mean they are actually projects, so spending six years on Auckland light rail and spending $250 million to $300 million doesn’t make it happen; it’s just a Post-it note slogan bumper sticker—that’s what that is. The same thing happened on Lake Onslow—just another bumper sticker. There’s a difference between real projects that improve productivity and phantom projects that just actually are Post-it notes.

SPEAKER: I’d just make the point that while barracking against an answer that you don’t like doesn’t make it change, nor does barracking in favour of an answer you like make it any better—so just a bit of calm.

Hon David Seymour: When the Prime Minister eventually leaves office, does he anticipate spending his first year out combing the world for statistics to show how badly he buggered the economy?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I’d just say to the member, on this side, in the Government, as he well knows, he’s part of, actually, a Government that wants to get things done. We think there are five things that we need to grow this country: a world-class education system—we didn’t inherit that from the previous Government—we’ve got to embrace science, technology, and innovation; we need to get rid of the red tape, green tape, and bureaucracy; we need to make sure we’ve got modern, reliable infrastructure; and, importantly, international connections. That’s what will drive economic growth.

SPEAKER: It may surprise the member to know that the Prime Minister has no responsibility to this House for his future. Good question; well answered, but we’ll go now to the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he take responsibility for the construction sector business confidence collapsing under his Government’s watch, from one in three businesses having a confident outlook to only one in five now?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I’d take responsibility for is rebuilding the economy from the hell of a mess that we inherited, and you’re starting to see that. We have stopped the wasteful spending, we’ve stopped loading costs up on businesses, and we’re getting spending under control. That’s driving inflation down, thankfully—and I would hope the member is joining us in great celebration with the lower interest rates that came through last week—and from that will flow economic growth and, ultimately, more employment opportunities for people.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he think the 6,000 people who’ve lost their jobs in the building and construction sector and the firms who are closing because they have a shortage of work because of his Government’s decisions think that this is what getting back on track looks like?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I think those 6,000 workers understand that a Government that had six years, mucked around, and actually drove the economy into a hole is a reason why they’re doing it pretty tough. But they know that on this side, the Government wants to actually make sure we build infrastructure and we get things done, and that’s going to happen.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Has he got any plans to assign $54 million, for example, for a cycleway over the Auckland Harbour Bridge, and when it’s all over, nothing is done with it?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: There were a lot of phantom projects from the previous Government; we can go through them if you’d like. There was the cycle pathway over the Auckland Harbour Bridge. That was a lovely idea for about a week and a half or so—

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It’s the general approach, as you’ve suggested, to try and leave you to deal with that, but that immediate response from the Prime Minister was to have a crack at the previous Government, and it should have been ruled out right then. The question wasn’t about that, but the Prime Minister made the answer about that, and it was out of order.

SPEAKER: Well, that might be something that I’ll need to look at the Hansard to reconsider.

Hon Kieran McAnulty: Thank you.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?

Over the past few years, New Zealand has endured a cost of living crisis, with rampant inflation eating away at New Zealanders’ incomes and savings. In response, interest rates were lifted very sharply, imposing additional costs on Kiwi households and businesses. I was delighted to see that last week marked a significant turning point, with the Reserve Bank’s monetary policy committee deciding to cut the official cash rate (OCR) by 25 basis points, to 5.25 percent. What’s more, the bank has set out a forecast track for the official cash rate which shows a steady decline over the next few years, back down to 3 percent in 2027.

Stuart Smith: What does an OCR cut mean for New Zealand families and businesses?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Lowering the official cash rate will lead to lower interest rates across the economy; in fact, this process has already started. It means Kiwis will pay less interest on their mortgages and on their personal loans, easing the cost of living for families. It also improves the conditions for businesses, making it easier for them to borrow to expand, hire people, and grow. Lower interest rates will be a breath of fresh air for the economy. Coupled with the tax relief package we introduced on 31 July, this is an important milestone in beating the cost of living crisis.

Stuart Smith: What is the Reserve Bank’s forecast for inflation?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: During the cost of living crisis, annual Consumers Price Index inflation got to 7.3 percent and was over 7 percent for most of 2022. The Reserve Bank’s latest forecast is for inflation in this quarter—that is, the September quarter of 2024—to be well within the target band, at 2.3 percent. That is a very considerable drop. The Reserve Bank clearly has confidence that inflation is under control and that the age of extreme price increases is over, after four years where the only way for interest rates was up.

Stuart Smith: What has been the contribution of fiscal policy?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Fiscal policy can either get in the way of monetary policy, as we saw with big spending over the last few years, or it can be helpful. This Government has been helpful, as the Budget demonstrates. New Zealanders benefited from long-overdue tax relief, and this tax relief was delivered in a way that was fiscally neutral and did not add to inflationary pressure, with every single dollar accounted for. More importantly, Government spending as a proportion of the economy is forecast to fall over the next few years, as the Monetary Policy Statement shows. As the Treasury said in the Budget update, “The decisions taken through Budget 2024 will on balance reduce the contribution fiscal policy is making to inflation pressure.”

Question No. 4—Finance

4. to the Minister of Finance: Mālō ‘aupito, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by her statement, “We’ve acted swiftly to root-out waste, reduce bureaucracy and move resources from the back-office to the front line”; if so, is she confident New Zealanders have gained more from the tax cuts than they lost from the Budget 2024 baseline savings exercise?

Yes, and yes.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why has Oranga Tamariki ended contracts with 190 front-line social service providers and a further 142 providers have had their funding reduced, or are these contracts wasteful spending, as described by the Prime Minister?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, if the member wants detailed answers on specific contract decisions by Oranga Tamariki, I would encourage her to put those questions to the relevant Minister. I will make two points: first, overall funding for Oranga Tamariki in the Budget increased; and, second, if that member thinks that the position of a Government should be that every single contract signed up to needs to be stuck in stone and never changed, then she’s delusional. In fact, what our Government has committed to do is drive better services. We want New Zealand children to be safe, we want there to be good and effective service delivery, and Oranga Tamariki is expected to deliver on that.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Is it reasonable, as part of her Budget 2024 baseline savings exercise, for front-line social service providers to provide 100 percent of their contracted Government services with only 70 percent of the Government funding, and is this consistent with the social services commissioning model?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Our expectation is that we will drive better results for the taxpayers’ money we invest in social service provision. We are particularly conscious that in recent years, social service providers have watched while Wellington grew, the dollars that went into Government agencies expanded, and the number of policy analysts and managers hired grew, and yet those front-line service providers often only saw in return more contracting requirements, more compliance, and, actually, weren’t able to deliver better results. Our Government is focused on ensuring the dollars actually make it to the front line.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: What does she say to providers like Taeaomanino Trust, Wesley Community Action, Porirua Whānau Centre, Barnardos Aotearoa, Wairere Care Services, North Shore Women’s Centre, WELLfed New Zealand Trust, E Tipu E Rea, and the Salvation Army, who have all had reductions in funding and lost front-line staff as a result of her Budget 2024 baseline savings exercise?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, I’d say to each of those social service providers that the Government values what you do. You play a significant role in helping New Zealanders in need, and our Government wants to work with you to ensure we can make the maximum impact for the people you serve.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Was making funding cuts for Oranga Tamariki providers, who serve our most vulnerable children, worth it to pay for her tax cuts?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, I completely reject the accusation in the member’s question. We invested every single dollar gained from savings at Oranga Tamariki back into Oranga Tamariki, which, overall, had increased funding in the Budget.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the banking sector?