Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It’s a pleasure to take a call on the Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill, in the name of Dr Tracey McLellan. I’d like to commend Tracey on bringing this bill to the House, which is a good bill, and it’s encouraging to see that it’s receiving support from across the House. It’s always good when we agree on things.

First, I would like to acknowledge the work of Dr Emily Henderson, who was a former member of the Justice Committee in the previous 53rd Parliament. Emily, as already mentioned, was a staunch advocate for improving our justice system and an active local MP for Whangārei. It was through her that we paid a visit to the Whangārei sexual violence trial court there, which was made permanent in 2019 under the previous Government, both in Whangārei and Auckland. This is another example of where we can look at our court processes to make sure we get better outcomes not only for victims but for justice as well. This is a great bill that seeks to, I guess, make our courts more receptive to families and some of the trauma they’re experiencing when going through them.

Existing protections in the criminal proceedings include automatic entitlement for child witnesses to give evidence in alternative ways, instead of more stressful normal methods of being on the cross-examination stand, and extending that presumption, as found in criminal proceedings, to sexual-case complaints, sexual-case propensity witnesses, and to adult family-harm complaints. While the same protections that are automatically available for witnesses in criminal proceedings are technically available in the Family Court, that often in practice does not happen at all.

This bill adds a presumption in favour of alternative ways of giving evidence in those cases in order to reduce distress on victims and witnesses and to increase the quality of evidence that is given in our courts. If we can increase the quality of evidence, then it is easier for court cases to play out. If it’s a clear case, then a prosecution is able to result. That is a quicker way of proceeding through the system without people being further retraumatised and revictimised through the justice process itself.

Some of the findings from the evaluation of the trial sexual-violence court, using different ways of cross-examining, showed that victims were less traumatised at the end of the case and that better outcomes were made. I truly hope that the same outcomes can be made through this piece of legislation. We know that courtrooms in a Family Court, as has been mentioned, are typically less formal and smaller, with little physical distancing between parties. They can be very close to each other. This increases the stress on victims and witnesses, and it can be really hard for children, particularly in a marriage separation where mum and dad or both their parents are in the same room and things are heated and children are present or even giving evidence in those situations.

Having the ability for someone to be in a separate area and to have evidence that’s done through video in a way that’s able to minimise the impact on people who are young or vulnerable has got to be a good thing for our justice system. It is important that there is clear carriage of justice and there’s a way of making sure that we do that well, but that does not have to be at the expense of victims and of victims being retraumatised.

Also, I’d like to wind up: we’ve done a lot of work, as already mentioned, on making sure that family violence and also victims’ rights are strengthened. We want to keep that work going by having good bills like this proceeding. I welcome it to the Justice Committee, and I really look forward to the submissions we receive, particularly in this area when we get submissions from families who have been through the Family Court. That is a really informative way for our committee to get firsthand experience of where we can improve the system. We know from previous bills on this area that the Family Court has got a lot of improvements that can be made.

Hopefully this bill will be one of those things to improve experiences of people going through our Family Court. I commend the bill to the House.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I too rise in support of this member’s bill that we are considering here, today, in the first reading, the Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill. It’s a member’s bill in the name of Dr Tracey McLellan. I feel privileged that I get to sit on the Justice Committee opposite Dr Tracey, who often has quite deep and insightful additions to make to the conversations that we have when we’re considering the now 24—well, this is the 24th bill that will come before the Justice Committee, very ably chaired by my friend and colleague James Meager.

Now, this bill was introduced to the House on 5 March 2024, this year. As mentioned earlier, it was drafted by former member of Parliament for the Labour Party Dr Emily Henderson. This bill seeks to amend the principal Act, the Evidence Act 2006. Essentially, if we were to put it in a nutshell, it aims to make it easier and safer for victims of family violence to provide evidence in court.

When we talk about victims and when we talk about victims’ rights, it’s interesting what Dr Tracey mentioned in her speech earlier tonight on this bill. She said we want to ensure that victims—that witnesses, rather—don’t fold. I found that quite compelling, that comment that Dr Tracey made, because my mind drifted back to when I was studying law in Sydney and simultaneously working in the local courts arena over there. I recall very vividly, many a time, when witnesses nearly did fold because of the fear of giving evidence in the face, in the presence, of the alleged perpetrator of the crimes against them. That’s why, Dr Tracey, those words that you said really, really struck me and resonated as to why bills like this are so important. We need to consider the witnesses who are the victims.

I feel that James made this point quite comprehensively, as he usually does, but we have to be mindful of the rights of the other party as well, and this other party is the defendant. We’re looking at how we balance these rights—the rights of the victims vis-à-vis the rights of the defendants.

My mind went back to another situation when I worked in the courts, where I realised that the officer in charge of a case had disappeared from court for quite some time. I went outside to look for her to see if she was OK, and I found her telling witnesses that hadn’t been in court yet what to say in light of what she had heard being said in the courtroom, because the doors were closed to witnesses that hadn’t come in yet. I found that quite disturbing, and I went and informed the magistrate, and the magistrate had to shut down the court straight away—that courtroom. Indeed, I was, later on, cross-examined by a police prosecutor as to what I saw, because that was an interference in the course of justice.

I am very honoured to hear my colleagues say that they find me to be someone that stands up for the rights of victims, but I don’t forget about this right of people that have not been convicted yet. This is the balance that I am sure we will strike in the Justice Committee as this this bill goes towards submissions and conversations about how we mitigate those situations so that we ensure that that balance is met. For now, I look forward to perusing over, and conversing about, this, as do my colleagues, and I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you. Now, I’m just going to call the Hon Willow-Jean Prime, but we’re just resetting this clock—mine’s working and that one’s working but this one’s not. I can assure you that you have longer than 49 seconds, the Hon Willow-Jean Prime.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a brief call on the Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill. Can I join with others in acknowledging and congratulating my colleague Dr Tracey McLellan for shepherding through this bill. It is wonderful to hear that there is support around the House for the bill to go to select committee. I acknowledge that the Justice Committee will be undertaking the submission process and doing this work on everybody’s behalf.

I do want to speak as Labour’s spokesperson for children and add my support to the bill because this bill is proposing to extend a range of protections for parties and witnesses giving evidence on sexual assaults or family harm in the Family Court to mirror those that are currently available to similarly vulnerable complainants and witnesses in criminal proceedings. In particular, the highlight here is the automatic entitlement for child witnesses to give evidence in alternative ways, instead of more stressful, normal methods. As others have pointed out tonight, while this is something that is already available in the Family Court, the court doesn’t often use them. By flipping that, with the presumption being that this will be the preferred approach, I want to add my support to it.

I was a neighbour and flatmate of Dr Emily Henderson, and we often talked about the Family Court and improvements that could be made in the Family Court. I am pleased that this bill is here tonight and that there is support in the House for it. I’m sure she will be delighted to see this proceeding to the select committee. I encourage the public to make submissions on this, and I acknowledge the select committee who will be doing that work on our behalf. I commend the bill to the House.

Like others, I welcome this member’s bill, the Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill, in its first reading in the name of Dr Tracey McLellan. I congratulate her for the work that’s been done this far and for the good fortune of having it drawn out of the biscuit tin.

I think it’s important just to step back a bit on this bill and reflect on what we’re dealing with in New Zealand as far as family violence and the statistics and the abhorrentness of it and the horrendousness of it. These are, in fact, at many levels, the worst in the OECD.

Playing into this member’s bill here is the fact that only 33 percent of family violence cases are reported. Family violence events have increased by 60 percent in the last five years. Children are present at nearly two-thirds of all family violence incidents police respond to. And just to wind up on these horrific numbers, according to New Zealand Police’s 2022-23 annual report, 177,452 family harm investigations were recorded by the New Zealand Police in the year to June 2023, a 49 percent increase from 2017—so a 49 percent increase in family harm investigations by police from 2017 to the end of June 2023.

I commend the member for bringing this to the House and for us now in the hard-working Justice Committee to be able to go explore it, interrogate it, bring in the officials, seek more advice, and deal with those that advise in and around our court system as to how it will work and how we can get best effect out of it.

Again, as others have said, it seeks to extend protections for parties and witnesses in the Family Court when giving evidence of family harm or sexual assaults. I said earlier, and I’m going to say it again, that this is a focus not just for this member and for that side of the House, but you’ve got to think that this Government, 12 months old, is turning it around as far as making the justice system more victim-centric and victim-prioritised.

We’ve got a Government Public Service target—target number four, which is on the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet website—where the aspiration is for 20,000 fewer victims of sexual assault, robbery, and serious assault by 2029.

When talking to the Secretary for Justice when he came before the Justice Committee for one of our scrutiny sessions, I asked him if these targets, particularly that target, would be helpful in their cross-agency, inter-departmental attack on, and final addressing of, our criminal levels of family violence, and he said that those Public Service targets will be critical and will be important and will really focus the mind, as will the Social Investment Agency, which is now under way and which featured in Budget 2024 as a small allocation. That investment by Nicola Willis as our finance Minister and Public Service Minister is going to deliver dividends as well.

Again, this is great news for this side of the House. This side of the House, this Government, is focused on the victims. This side of the House is committed to reducing family violence and family harm, and so I commend the bill and look forward to hearing submissions and seeing more evidence. Thank you.

Dr Tracey McLellan, in reply.

Thank you, Madam Speaker—thank you for the opportunity. I’d like to acknowledge all parties across the House and commend them for recognising the value of this bill and for agreeing to support it to select committee.

As has been said on several occasions tonight across all of those parties, at the heart of this bill is the intentionality to do something that’s simple and practical and that actually makes a material difference to the lives of people who, by definition, are probably experiencing, if not their worst day, one of their worst days whilst they negotiate and whilst they navigate through a process that is, by definition, again, largely unpleasant and that signifies, generally, the end of something that possibly was never anticipated to be so and that is fraught with all of the things that human beings bring to any occasion when they are in distress and when things break down.

I appreciate the fact that members have identified some concerns and some things that they intend to look out for, and to ventilate on, and to think more deeply about, during the select committee process, which, of course, is exactly the right place to do that. I welcome the airing of those issues because at the heart, again, of this bill is the fact that we want to get to the end of this process having something that works well for people.

I note that some of the considerations and some of the potential issues that have been raised are around resource—whether that be administrative resource, technological resource, or basic logistics and practicalities. I’m a firm believer that all of those things can be worked out, particularly when they’re backed up and when the scaffolding behind them is the intentionality to look out for vulnerable people and for victims. I look forward to hearing some of the creative and some of the practical and sensible solutions that arise through this process.

I also want to acknowledge the fact that another theme of the contributions tonight was about the need to balance the protection that can be afforded to people within the considerations of justice. Again, I’d like to acknowledge that those are considerations and those are balances that exist throughout all of our systems, particularly our criminal justice system. There is no reason to assume that we would wish for less, in the Family Court, than achieving those balances and to achieving them in a way that is fair and also protective. I look forward to working on that as well.

The many submitters mentioned the fact that when we go to select committee, it is time for the public to make their submissions, and I certainly encourage people to do so. There have been several organisations and several groups and individuals who have reached out to me since March, when this bill was first pulled from the biscuit tin. It sat for quite some time waiting for its airing, but it has, therefore, had the opportunity to garner some interest and to excite people, with the potential of submissions, who have worked a long time in this area or have just recently afforded themselves the opportunity to learn more about this area or have found themselves in the unfortunate position of having to navigate it. I really do encourage everybody who has some lived experience or some professional experience to lend that to the select committee process, and we look forward to hearing those stories.

In conclusion, I’d like to, again, acknowledge the support across the House. I’d like to, again, take the opportunity to thank Dr Emily Henderson, who I know almost certainly will be watching and will feel amongst her many, many achievements throughout her professional career that this is yet another way in which she can make a difference, in the system that she is so passionate about, for the people that she has always worked so hard on behalf of. In conclusion, again, may I just provide one small anecdote that Emily also told me in preparation for this bill, and that was of many stories of her and her colleagues literally having to hold people’s hands to walk them across the road when they thought about turning away from seeking their justice and of having to put their bodies in between parties in an informal setting to preserve the sanctity of that courtroom. I look forward to the process. I’m very pleased with the results tonight. Thank you very much to the House.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read a first time.

The question is, That the Evidence (Giving Evidence of Family Violence) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee.

Motion agreed to.

Bill referred to the Justice Committee.