Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill

on behalf of the Minister of Tourism: I present a legislative statement on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill.

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.

Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I move, That the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill be now read a third time.

Freedom camping is important to Aotearoa New Zealand for both our people and our manuhiri, with many freedom campers travelling widely to experience our incredible taiao and spend money in our communities. However, while the number of freedom campers has been steadily increasing over the last decade, so too have the negative environmental and social impacts. Of particular concern is those who freedom camp in vehicles that do not contain fixed toilets and, in disposing of human waste inappropriately, polluting our environment and angering our communities. Kaitiakitanga is a responsibility that we all have; whether you’re an overseas visitor or a New Zealander who likes to get out and explore our backyard on holiday, we must all respect the whenua and preserve it for future generations to enjoy.

Concerns about irresponsible freedom campers were raised in the 2021 Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment report, which noted the negative impact to our environment occurring under the current system. This followed years of calls for regulatory reform, particularly from local authorities and communities. The Government has responded with this bill.

The bill will improve the management of vehicle-based freedom camping by creating a robust regulatory system that local government can rely on to reduce the negative impacts of freedom camping. The bill ensures that vehicle certification is consistent and to a high standard, while giving local government more tools to address issues specific to their regions. It will also give our communities confidence in our freedom camping system. The bill supports our visitors in following the Tiaki Promise, to protect nature, keep New Zealand clean, and show respect to others and the environment. This bill does not stop people enjoying the activity of freedom camping, nor does it change the quintessential back-country experience that no doubt many of us grew up with. It is about protecting our environment and improving things for our communities, not preventing people from freedom camping.

I’d like to thank every person who made a submission on this bill, especially those who took the time to speak to the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee in person. I also want to thank the members of the committee for their consideration of the bill. Even before the select committee process, the Government had undertaken extensive consultation, receiving over 5,000 submissions in response to the discussion document that informed the bill. Throughout the preparation of the bill, officials worked closely with representatives from key freedom camping groups and local authorities. Their input has provided an important practical perspective in the development of this legislation.

The select committee heard from around 750 submitters, many of whom did oppose the bill because it will require self-contained vehicles that freedom camp to have a fixed toilet. However, the views of this small minority of less than 1 percent of self-contained vehicle owners shouldn’t be blown out of proportion. The Government has heard time and time again from local authorities and the communities that they represent about the challenges they face as a result of freedom camping, citing instances of human waste, litter, and other antisocial behaviour at freedom camping sites. As such, we saw the majority of local authorities support the bill on behalf of their communities. They are the ones currently picking up the tab for irresponsible freedom campers.

The departmental report identified fixed toilets—they said that fixed toilets are a key aspect of building confidence in the freedom camping system and reducing the environmental impacts and costs caused by irresponsible freedom campers. It’s estimated that there are 73,000 self-contained vehicles in New Zealand and the research shows that for domestic freedom campers, 85 percent of those already have a fixed or fitted toilet. Those who don’t and are not able to fit one will be able to stay at any of the hundreds of private or Department of Conservation campsites around the motu.

Some have argued that portable toilets are sufficient, but the research shows that fixed toilets are approximately twice as likely to be used by freedom campers as portable toilets. For domestic freedom campers, over 98 percent of those with fixed toilets did actually use them. The fixed toilet requirement is not designed to stop people from freedom camping, but rather ensure that it is done responsibly. Requiring fixed toilets will encourage increased usage and help reduce the improper disposal of waste, which currently incurs a cost borne by the local communities to repair the harm done to their natural environment by irresponsible freedom campers. It will also help to build trust in the regulatory system as these toilets can’t be easily removed from vehicles after certification.

The cost of freedom camping—the reality is it’s never been free. And it’s often ratepayers and taxpayers footing the bill. The Government has already provided $90 million of funding for tourism-related infrastructure since 2017 through the Tourism Infrastructure Fund, and a further $24.5 million on freedom camping projects since 2018 through the responsible camping fund. Despite this funding, our communities are still paying for the actions of a minority of those who behave irresponsibly. That is why we’ve chosen to take a regulation-based approach, along with providing funding for local authorities to implement the new system. It is time that the cost of freedom camping is shifted away from our communities and our local authorities to those who choose to enjoy our beautiful environment in this way.

I understand that there were concerns raised about the impact of the bill on homelessness. The intent of the bill is not to penalise those experiencing homelessness, and my colleague the Hon Peeni Henare will look to ensure the legislation reflects this intent.

My colleague Minister Henare has listened to feedback from submitters, the Regulations Review Committee, and recommendations from officials published in their departmental report. As the committee did not report back on the bill, he is intending to take forward a comprehensive Supplementary Order Paper at the committee of the whole House stage to improve the bill’s overall operation. Some of the changes I understand he intends to progress through the Supplementary Order Paper include lowering the default infringement fee from $1,000 to $400 until the regulations come into effect, amending the definition of a motor vehicle to include slide-on campers so these can be certified as self-contained, and minor technical amendments to enhance the operation of bylaws.

Kaitiakitanga is a responsibility that we all have, now and into the future. Whether you’re an overseas visitor or a New Zealander who likes to get out and explore our backyard on holiday, we must all protect and respect our whenua and preserve it for future generations. This Government continues to promote tourism as we progressively open our borders, support domestic tourism opportunities, and maintain New Zealand’s presence in the international markets. I note that concerns have been called for for many years, and this bill responds to those concerns. I commend this bill to the House.

The question is that the motion be agreed to.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. Unfortunately, the Government has not been paying close attention to the issues that have been raised in this bill and the simple fixes that can be made to make sure this bill was a good one. The National Party supported having stronger regulations for freedom camping, but they got it wrong. Unfortunately, that speech by the Minister Kiritapu Allan we’ve just heard illustrates their lack of attention to detail, because the Minister was talking about the future committee of the whole House stage and amendments to come from the Minister, and I’m afraid to let that Minister know this is the third reading, the final reading. There is no committee of the whole House stage to come; that’s already been. There are no amendments to come from Minister Peeni Henare; that has already been. So, unfortunately, Minister—I think the Minister just illustrated—

Hon Louise Upston: She’s read the wrong speech.

JOSEPH MOONEY: —that—reading the wrong speech, and is focusing on something that’s already been and gone and we’re actually here on the third reading. That really sums it all up. But, look, I’ll go a little bit further for those who are watching—

Hon Louise Upston: Help the Minister.

JOSEPH MOONEY: To help the Minister—help the Minister understand this bill, which might be helpful. This bill is an omnibus bill which amends the Freedom Camping Act 2011 and the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006. The bill is intended to address freedom camping. Like I said, the National Party supported stronger regulations for freedom camping, but it has in this case got it wrong. Look, the National Party tried to work with Government members in the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to try to get some amendments so we could support the bill, and at the committee of the whole House stage—that process which the Minister who just spoke thought was coming up in the future but has in fact been and gone—the National Party put forward three Supplementary Order Papers to make some reasonably minor but sensible amendments to this bill which would’ve enabled this—

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! In a third reading, the member is to address the bill as it sits on the Table, not what might have been in it, perhaps promoted by another party. So can I ask the member to come back to the bill as presented.

Simeon Brown: Point of order. I appreciate what you’re saying there, Madam Speaker, but the former speaker—the Minister—didn’t do the same.

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Yep, thank you for that.

JOSEPH MOONEY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. What I was getting to—and the National Party put forward a proposal to amend this so that it wasn’t just for those toilets that were permanently fixed to the vehicle but also those that were portable and otherwise met the requirements set out in regulations—so creating a framework to ensure that the certification process would address the same requirements for the toilets, whether they were fixed or portable. That was voted down, which was obviously news to the Minister who just spoke, but at least we’ll put that on the record.

There were a couple of other proposals that the National Party put forward: a proposal that there be a report-back, but, again, that was voted down—sorry, I should say, the Minister of Tourism would have presented a report to the House one year after the end of the transition period on the costs and effects of the legislation. That’s a good idea, to actually make sure the legislation’s working and what it’s costing and if it’s achieving the purpose set out by the Government—in this case, I have my doubts, as the Government doesn’t seem to fully understand the bill it’s put forward. Another one: making sure that the New Zealand Motor Caravan Association could also certify self-contained vehicles. Also, that was voted down.

I am glad to see, though, that there was one thing at least that the Minister of Tourism did pick up, probably from my first speech on this bill, in which I pointed out that this would—

Simeon Brown: Was this before the third reading speech?

JOSEPH MOONEY: It was before the third reading speech, Mr Brown, I’m glad to say. So there was homelessness: that was an issue that I raised in my first speech, that the bill that the Government had put forward was going to mean that homeless people who had nowhere to stay—and, unfortunately, we’ve seen a bit of that in my region—would have been penalised by this bill through no fault of their own. At least the Minister—and I’ll give him this credit—did address that at the committee of the whole House stage, that process that’s actually been and gone, and that at least was addressed, and that’s a good thing.

One other thing, though, that this doesn’t address is: what about truckies who sleep in their cabs? They need to be certified and have a fixed toilet in their cab. That might be a bit of an issue, I think, for the truckies who are working hard to get our goods and services and our food around the country. I think they’ll just have to comply, because I don’t think the Labour Government’s probably thought about that either—so a bit of a problem.

So there we go. Unfortunately, this is not a Government of detail that we have on the other side of the House, but in a few months’ time there’s an opportunity for New Zealand to choose a Government that will be focused on detail. We’ll make sure legislation works for people and make sure that we have a Government focused on the needs of the people and good quality legislation that addresses those needs. Like I said, National wants to see all freedom campers treated equally and fairly by the Government, wants to make sure that we address the issues that are seen. We want to make sure that freedom campers have a suitable toilet and use it; those who don’t should be prosecuted, they should be held accountable. Unfortunately, this legislation is poorly drafted; it needs fixing. There’ll be an opportunity in a few months for the country to choose a Government that will make sure there is good quality legislation, has Ministers who focus on the detail, who understand the bills that have been put forward to the House for third reading, and will make sure that it listens to the communities to make sure legislation adds good value.

So there we go. As you may have picked up from my speech, Minister, National will not be supporting this bill at the third reading. We did seek to have a good, workable piece of legislation at the third reading—at the third reading; this is the third reading. It might be news to the Minister across the House—well, it is news to the Minister across the House—but this is the third reading, and we will not be supporting this bill at the third reading. So, thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Every time I speak on this Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill, I just always want to make sure that I start off with a definition of what this bill is trying to do. So first of all, what is freedom camping? The bill defines freedom camping as “staying in a vehicle or tent within 200 metres of a place where you can drive the coast or a Great Walks Track.”

Now, this is the point that I really want to drive home—pun intended—to a lot of our freedom campers, and especially a lot of our submitters to the select committee: it does not include camping on private land, back-country areas, or where payment is required for the site. Once again, there has been a lot of misinformation to do with this bill.

The fact that our Government is making sure that there are fixed toilets and a responsible attitude towards making sure that our nature here in New Zealand gets preserved to that pristine 100% Pure New Zealand is of the utmost importance, especially as we start to open our doors up to the rest of the world, especially as we get ready for the FIFA Women’s World Cup this year.

We’re making sure that there are places not only for you to freedom camp so that your toilets are fixed to the vehicle, but also we’ve put in $25 million—this is annually, so we’ve done that for a couple of years now—into the Tourism Infrastructure Fund (TIF), making sure that our local government actually has the funding to put in place places that we can camp. It’s not even freedom camping; it’s campsites where you pay a very small amount of fee—with TIF, maybe that fee will get lowered even more—around the $30 benchmark to make sure that you have a place where you can park your vehicle, go in and use the toilets and the shower amenities, and, not related to this bill, but maybe even there will be kitchens where you can cook a hot meal, where you can go in and meet other campers, like-minded people, make some friends, have a great time, and still look after the planet. That is why I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It’s a pleasure to take a call on this first—no, sorry, second. No, no. Today, it’s the third reading. I think it’s the third reading—third reading—of the Self-contained—

Hon Members: Are you sure?

SIMEON BROWN: Well, I hope. Well, I’d like to ask the whip and the Chair. Is it the third reading? It is the third reading—the third reading of the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. But I wonder whether the Minister actually moved the correct motion that this is the third reading of the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill.

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Order! Order! Just sticking to the actual third reading would be really helpful.

SIMEON BROWN: Yes, that’s right. But thank goodness for legislative statements. Thank goodness for legislative statements, because whilst the Minister was giving a very elaborate speech, thank goodness we have a legislative statement which says everything that the Minister intended to say.

But the National Party won’t be supporting this piece of legislation, because, effectively, what the Government is doing is ramming through its own ideological approach to how to deal with the problem, which we do acknowledge needs addressing. But instead of working with very respectable and reputable organisations—like the New Zealand Motor Caravan Association (NZMCA), who already do a fantastic job self-regulating their tens of thousands of members across New Zealand to deal with the issue around campervans and toilets—they have instead decided that they know best, and they’re going to be putting in place an incredibly onerous regime which requires that all of these people who currently use portable toilets in their caravans will now need to go and get fixed toilets put in their caravans, at great expense, without having a flexible approach which achieves the same outcome.

And so we want to achieve the same outcome, but we want to do it with the least cost and burden on New Zealanders. That’s what it comes to. We want our country to be beautiful. We want people to enjoy the freedom to be able to camp, and we want them to do that in a clean and sustainable way, but we want to do that in a way which imposes the least burden upon those New Zealanders who are enjoying this country.

This Government decides to come along and wants to put in the highest costs they can on New Zealanders. And it’s not just when it comes to toilets—which is the subject here—but taxes and showers and you name it. They want everyone to pay more and get less. And that is I think what sums up this Government’s approach to every issue. It is to take the highest regulatory approach, the worst regulatory approach, to dealing with the issue, rather than trying to take the least regulatory, the least costly, approach to dealing with these issues.

And so the National Party—and I acknowledge Hon Todd McClay for the work that he’s been doing on this bill, advocating for the tens of thousands of members of caravan owners and tens of thousands of members of the New Zealand Motor Caravan Association who are good, hard-working, respectable people who want the best—who are environmentalists at heart—for this country and just wanted to get some flexibility put in place. But this Government voted that down.

We also want to make sure that the NZMCA could support the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board with running a certification process. But, no, this Government knows best. They love regulation. Rather than working with the organisation which already has a relationship with the members who have the caravans, they’ve decided to go and organise their own process. And then, of course, they’re not willing to put in place proper review of this legislation, because this Government thinks they know best and, so, want to rush this through.

And so the National Party—we stand on the side of less regulation, not more. We stand on the side of fewer regulations, good regulation, and achieving outcomes with the least regulatory approach. That’s what the National Party believes in. Labour—they just want to impose costs and burdens on New Zealanders, and that is unacceptable and it’s appalling, and that is why we need to change this Government on 14 October. Thank you very much.

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It’s been so interesting this evening to be listening to the rhetoric and the lack of information coming from the other side of the House this evening. The previous two speakers from the National Party—neither has spent any time whatsoever on the select committee, delving into, digging deep into this piece of legislation. I am grateful and glad to have been a member of the committee which has seen this piece of legislation right through its process.

When we looked at this and we talked about, as Mr Simeon Brown was just saying, that the Government comes along and just wants to add costs and bureaucracy—blah, blah, blah—actually, the Government comes along because councils have been asking and crying out for this. Councils have been coming along saying, “We need regulations to support us.” My council, the New Plymouth District Council, and the Waiwhakaiho River, which is a significant river in our city—there were faeces in the bushes, there was rubbish scattered around, there were fires lit in this sacred space. That actually is wrong and is disgusting and does not represent our clean, green, 100% Pure New Zealand image. That’s why we have this legislation on the table, that’s why we plan to pass it this evening, that’s why we’ve worked so hard with councils, with motorhome associations.

I want to acknowledge our officials, who have worked hard and long on getting this legislation right, on not only listening to us as members of Parliament but listening to the 790 written submissions, 66 oral submissions, the to-ing and fro-ing, and the constructive process which was made on all sides of the House to get this legislation right. This is good legislation.

Sam Uffindell: You rushed it.

GLEN BENNETT: This is not rushed; this has gone through the usual process of Parliament. That’s why I am commending this bill to the House.

ACT won’t be supporting this bill. After what we’ve seen tonight—the performance of the Minister who introduced this bill at third reading, who couldn’t work out which reading it was—it confirms what ACT has been saying: this Government is leading the “coalition of the klutzes” who couldn’t even work out how to deliver a bill that works.

So ACT’s opposing this bill. The Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill proposes to solve some real problems. I’ve been a camper around New Zealand. I’ve camped out of a tent in local council camping grounds, Department of Conservation camping grounds, and on private land. Responsible New Zealanders always take care of their waste; we always clean up after ourselves. We used to have a campaign on television when I was a kid called, “Be a tidy Kiwi”. There were billboards everywhere.

New Zealanders agree on what a good, clean environment looks like. Then there are issues, you say, “Oh crikey, all of these people are coming to New Zealand.” They’re buying a van or renting a van, and they don’t understand what to do when they arrive in a special place and they get out the mattress, lay out all the sleeping bags, get the camp cooker out, and then they’re like, “Well, we’ve had dinner now and I’ve got to go somewhere. Where do I go?” and off they go into the bushes.

I mean, maybe we should issue them—instead of some enormous long card they have to fill out when they cross the border—a little camping spade. I don’t know. ACT’s the party of practical solutions. Instead, what the Government has given us is this ridiculous bill, the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill.

It was heartening to see some really practical amendments proposed by Joseph Mooney during the committee of the whole House stage, none of which were taken up. But ACT believes that there is a problem to solve; that local government has a role to play, and it’s important that they can enforce local bylaws so if people are taking advantage of our special places—occupying them, littering, polluting—they can be moved on. But one of the reasons that this behaviour has become so commonplace compared to decades past is because those roadside facilities that actually enable tourists—whether they be from overseas or local—to be able to relieve themselves on those long trips; on those trips when, maybe having had one too many coffees or pies, they need to go in a hurry.

Now, it’s not just people who are tourists but it’s also local New Zealanders. It wasn’t that long ago that we heard from Crohn’s and Colitis New Zealand, who came to Parliament, actually, that it would make their lives much easier if there were more public toilets on our main routes around New Zealand.

So when we think about the problems this bill’s trying to solve, is it a problem that people are lazy and need to be punished for not picking up after themselves? Or is it a problem of infrastructure; and the fact that you’ve got towns like Queenstown, a population of 45,000-odd people—roughly the same as Nelson—but which is potentially going to take 3 million visitors a year when their airport is upgraded in the next few years’ time? How is a town that can only rate 45,000 people supposed to raise the revenues to provide all of those facilities for 3 million tourists passing through their town?

So this bill is typical of the “coalition of the klutzes”. It is half-baked, barely identifies the problem, and doesn’t actually provide solutions like ACT would—sharing GST, sharing revenues back with local government so that they can pay for the infrastructure to support their tourism industry, and actually to make the lives of everyday Kiwis travelling who need to use public toilets who actually need that privacy to actually have somewhere to do that.

So ACT won’t be supporting the bill. We’ll be working, when there’s a change of Government, on a whole lot of practical solutions to solve this problem. These are not the solutions.

A pleasure to rise on behalf of the Greens to speak on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. Putting aside the earlier speeches, I did want to commend the Minister of Tourism, actually, for having worked in good faith to address some of the concerns that came about during select committee and that were highlighted in our first reading of this bill regarding this bill’s potential targeting of homeless people. So we do want to welcome the fact that during the committee of the whole House stage this has been addressed, and an acknowledgment that homeless people do not choose to be homeless, and, therefore, the bill should avoid targeting homeless people in the first place.

But we also wanted to highlight that, unfortunately, as a whole, what this bill does is—and I think I want to draw from the former Minister Stuart Nash, who spoke during the first reading—more about the so-called high-value tourism, rather than working towards shifting away from the endless growth of the industry, of the sector that we were seeing, particularly prior to the border closure as a result of COVID-19. We had an opportunity to actually re-imagine what our tourism industry could look like.

Yes, like the speaker to my right—and I feel kind of awkward quoting them, but, yes, addressing things like our infrastructure shortage that has meant that many people participating in domestic tourism, particularly, do not have the infrastructure available them, which requires them to, effectively, fork out more money to upgrade their vehicles within, potentially, quite restrictive parameters as to fixed toilets. It risks gentrifying the tourism industry without addressing some of those core deficits that exist that prevent people from engaging in responsible camping, which is actually the goal that we were working towards between 2017 and 2020.

I think that framework puts sustainability in a much more paramount way, as opposed to this kind of idea that I alluded to earlier around high-value tourism. The risk of this bill entrenching this strategy of high-value tourism is that it assumes that so-called high-value tourism immediately is greener, because it often brings in kind of wealthier tourists, and it’s not necessarily the case. I think what this bill is moving towards is this idea that we want to attract wealthier tourists and they’ll participate in greener tourism. Some of those are really emissions-intensive activities.

Our concerns that we raised at first reading, for the most part, except the homelessness provisions, which we addressed, and thank the Minister for, remain, in terms of the sort of narrow scope of the bill, the sort of disjointed approach in terms of all the land that tourism kind of participates in. So we encourage the Government to instead completely reimagine the tourism industry to put sustainability as a pinnacle of it, as opposed to endless growth, and move towards the approach that was being worked on in 2017, 2020 around responsible camping. So the Green Party won’t be supporting this bill at third reading.

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Talofa lava. It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. As somebody who was involved in the tourism industry, when I first came back from my OE, and was working at the New Plymouth District Council, advising people on the wonderful, wonderful Te Papakura o Taranaki—I never get sick of saying that old name, great name, for our beautiful national park that I had the privilege to live under when we’d be giving people advice, because we’ve heard a lot from people about how responsible most of our visitors to this country, and our visitors from around New Zealand, are when they come to Taranaki.

What this bill does is it just makes local government more able to support our visitors to get it right, right? We heard the concerns that, actually, maybe all we need to do is just build more loos. Well, funnily enough, we have, and we continue to do so. We’ve got fabulous new loos in Mokau, by the way, just if you’re on your way down to Taranaki from up North. So you’re right, we do need to provide better facilities, and we are providing better facilities. But this is actually about making sure that our local government, who know our precious places—and they know the pressure points—are better enabled to get it right. It doesn’t matter if we’re up the end of York Road or Lucy’s Gully or Maude Road, little places where people want to go and enjoy the very quietist back country in New Zealand; we just want to make sure that they really are considerate. This legislation sends a really strong signal that you can enjoy our back country, you can tread lightly, and you can also leave no loo paper in places where you shouldn’t. Because of that, I commend this bill to the House.

This is a split call. Five minutes—Sam Uffindell.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on this. We’re going to oppose this bill. I mean, this is just nanny State—you know, what are we doing here? We’ve got a situation where we don’t trust people to go to the toilet properly.

If you look at what is happening here, you’re saying to your little family that goes out, they’ve got a self-contained toilet—it’s one of those nice little ones that holds up and contains everything in there—and they go and do their business in that. But you’re not going to allow them to have that any more—you know, a little self-contained one—because you don’t trust them to then do the right thing.

Are you going to end up with perverse situations here, where people end up not taking a toilet on the off-chance one of these regulators, or whatever you want to call them, comes along and is looking and says, “You’ve got a self-contained toilet—you’re freedom camping. You’re going to get a fine.”

DEPUTY SPEAKER: I’m not going to do anything. Don’t use the word “you” every third word.

SAM UFFINDELL: Sorry, Mr Speaker—thank you, thank you. Are you going to end up—is one going to end up in a situation where a regulator comes along and then questions the freedom camper about why they’ve got one of those portable toilets? I wouldn’t want to be caught in that situation if I was freedom camping, so I wouldn’t bring the personal toilet. In fact, one would probably be inclined to leave it at home and then go off and do the sneaky.

So are you actually then creating a situation that is a worse outcome than the one that would have been had otherwise? I will note my colleague down here, Joseph Mooney, who, it has been noted, put forward a number of highly sensible Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs), and may I just say that I am not surprised that, unfortunately, none of them were taken up.

But what are we really trying to achieve here? I mean, we say that the councils have come in and said, “This is a really big problem.”, and the feedback that came in said that this wasn’t necessarily a big problem: “We freedom camp, we will know how to manage our excrement, we don’t need a Government telling us how to do it. We’re sensible enough.”—as are most New Zealanders.

But for those people who were already going out there and doing the wrong thing, I would challenge whether this bill is going to make any difference whatsoever, and for your families out there—and, let’s face it, most people who are out there are freedom camping. They’re freedom- and fun-seekers, or they’re people who, in this very tough cost of living crisis environment, find that this is the easiest way for them to go and have an easy family holiday. Is this Government now going to take that away from them again, be the fun-sponge—as they always are—and say, “You can’t do it, because you don’t have a fixed toilet. That portable one you’ve got, it was nice and you and your family used to use that, but the freedom campers are no longer allowed to use that.” I think that’s just a bit mean.

So I would encourage everyone out there—especially on that side of the House—to take on the virtue and the value of personal responsibility and trust that people know what to do with their excrement when they’re freedom camping. They should have listened to Mr Mooney when he was putting forward his SOPs. The Minister—I don’t know whether she listened to Joseph. It didn’t seem like the Minister was all with it today, but that’s OK. We can, hopefully, revisit—

Simon O’Connor: Which one?

SAM UFFINDELL: Which one? Excellent question. Which reading? Another excellent question—I’ll ask it before you do, Mr O’Connor. But, on that note, I will undoubtedly oppose this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I’m going to send that member who just resumed his seat, Sam Uffindell, an article from 2017, which talked about how desperate the situation was for freedom campers in Tauranga.

Hon Todd McClay: In 2017!

TĀMATI COFFEY: Oh, but the thing is that the law hasn’t changed. So, actually, the problem still exists. The member is tone deaf to the people of Tauranga who understand that this is a problem and are trying to find their way out of it.

The headline for that story back there is “Freedom campers out of control in Tauranga”—out of control in Tauranga. The member has no idea. The member is playing opposition for opposition’s sake, and actually saying that he opposes this bill, yet the constituents of Tauranga know that at the Omanu carpark, people park up and many of them don’t have facilities in their vans. And so what they do is they just take a little dump in the bushes, they leave some toilet paper in there, and it ruins and erodes the social licence that freedom campers all across New Zealand hope that they can continue to enjoy.

This bill, the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill, is a good piece of legislation. I see the member for Rotorua over there, Todd McClay. He knows just as much as anybody else the problems that we have with freedom campers in Rotorua. He sits there and he shakes his head, but we all know that we are filled, around our city, around our beautiful lake, with lots of freedom campers that choose to take a little dump in the bushes because there’s not enough legislation helping local councils out to be able to solve this problem.

This legislation gives local councils the ability to solve that problem. It sends a message to local councils that this Labour Government is listening to them, and, better than that, it sets a minimum standard for all of those international tourists that come into the country, that want to travel around our beautiful country—and please can they? Let them travel, but let them also take a toilet with them. If that means that we’re going to have to change our mind-set from what we’ve currently enjoyed, which is the good old hippies jumping in the car, doing the roadie, then, actually, let us change that. If we want to uphold our clean, green image that people from all around the world come to experience, then let it be so. I completely support this bill, Mr Speaker.

Kia ora, thank you, Madam Speaker. It’s a pleasure to speak on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill. I want to thank the Hon Peeni Henare, who originally brought this bill before the House, and also the members of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee.

Hitting the road in a camper is a Kiwi pastime. Unfortunately, some people do not treat our environment as well as others. Protecting our environment, our natural spaces, adds to our clean, green environment. I’ve done a bit of camping. I had a camper for a while, six berth, and it was self-contained.

Glen Bennett: Six berth?

DAN ROSEWARNE: Yeah, it’s fantastic. The way I used to run it was: it was my 10-year-old son who would empty the chemicals out of the toilet and do all that stuff. You know, you have to make sure you’re in bare feet and stand in a certain way when you emptied it, or else you get the speckles and things like that. You also make sure that you had a spare lid, because you don’t want to lose the lid on Boxing Day when everything is closed, so you’ve got to make sure that you’ve got a spare one there so that when you go to empty it, or you lose it down the hole, it’s all ready to go.

These things are a small price to pay to make sure that our environment is clean. The last thing that we want is people not using their toilets in a safe manner. So we’re addressing this by giving more power to local councils and creating new standards for freedom campers so that they can use self-contained vehicles. It’s for that reason that I commend this bill to the House.

There you have it: a Government so focused on the things that are important to New Zealand, they’ve set a standard for how you use a toilet in a campervan. That’s the number one thing that these MPs, three years ago, were elected to come to the House and do, and for some of them, it will be the last thing they get to do before they exit the building and won’t be remembered again.

This has been such a mess all the way through this legislation. Do you remember when Stuart Nash became the Minister of Tourism and the very first thing he did was send a signal that he’s going to stop people crapping in streams around New Zealand—all those foreigners. What Stuart forgot to tell everybody was the borders were closed. There were no foreigners here driving around, so he was going to stop people doing things that they weren’t actually doing.

Jump forward, and it came to the committee, and the piece of legislation that was put on the table in the committee had more than 80 amendments to it. It was such bad legislation—so many changes needed to make it actually even close to being workable, and at every step of the way, when submitters came from around New Zealand to make the case that we needed legislation but that it should focus on where the problem was and not penalise those that actually were responsible freedom campers, the Minister and the MPs in the Labour Party on that committee said, “Actually, you don’t understand what’s going on here. We know best, and we are right.” Well, that wasn’t the case. When finally the committee came to adopt its report and the members actually said, “No, we know what’s best.”, guess what happened? It got sent back to the House without any amendment, without any change, because they no longer had the majority.

Do you know why they no longer had a majority on that committee? It’s because for the first time in a long, long history in this House, a Government lost a seat in a by-election. And when they lost that seat to Tama Potaka in Hamilton—because they weren’t listening to the people of Hamilton, they weren’t listening to the people of New Zealand, and they were telling them that they knew it best—they lost the majority in the committee, and the bill was returned without change on it, even though the chair and others actually thought that they were doing the right thing, because a Minister was telling them in the committee what to do.

And then, of course, they tabled that report in the House. We were very clear; we supported it at first reading, saying, “We think there are problems with this. We think the legislation will penalise New Zealanders who are responsible and deserve to be able to go about their freedom camping, their pastime, or pleasure activity responsibly.” And actually, we brought forward amendments to make those changes, and the Government, again, said, “We don’t care about tens of thousands of New Zealanders who are responsible. We’re going to take their responsible behaviour where they use toilets, and we’re going to penalise them, and we’re going to criminalise that.”

And now we jump forward. When the Minister actually starts her speech in third reading, what does she say? She says, “Well, in the committee stage, we’re going to fix some things here.” The Minister, on behalf of the Government, delivering a speech in this House in the third reading, before those MPs over there decide to use their majority and not listen to New Zealanders and adopt this legislation that will criminalise the activities of tens of thousands of New Zealanders who are responsible and care about the environment—she can’t even work out this is a third reading. She said to all of them that it’s a second reading speech, and it shows that every step of the way this Government hasn’t understood this progress, hasn’t paid proper attention, and has made a mess of it from beginning to end.

Well, National’s happy to stand up for those responsible New Zealanders and say that there should be no difference at all between having a fixed toilet and a non-fixed toilet, because here’s the stupid thing about this legislation: if you have a fixed toilet and you go camping and you don’t use it, you’re not breaking the law; but if you have a portable toilet in your campervan and you do use it, you are breaking the law. That’s ridiculous. And “Angry Andy” over there that, actually, probably brought the Labour Party close to the worst—

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Full names, please, Mr McClay.

Hon TODD McCLAY: “Angry”—what’s his last name? Which one was I talking about?

Hon Andrew Little: You’re just a dumb member—just another dumb member.

Hon TODD McCLAY: Is that right? Well, let’s wait and see. But we sent a very clear signal to those New Zealanders who are responsible freedom campers that, actually, it should be against the law not to use a toilet when you freedom camp; it shouldn’t be against the law to use a toilet. That’s what this legislation does. Joseph Mooney brought forward amendments that would fix that, that would say if you have a portable toilet and you use it, you’re allowed to freedom camp; if you have a toilet and effectively don’t use it, that’s not allowed. That will be criminalised.

And a National Government will make those changes to recognise the rights of responsible, legitimate campers—legitimate, responsible New Zealanders—and to those who break the law and who are ruining the environment, they will be the ones that are held to account, not the ones who are responsible. We won’t be supporting this legislation, but, in Government, we will be fixing it on behalf of those tens of thousands of New Zealanders that this Labour Government has turned their back on.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Wow, sounds like a lot of people need a lot of release and relief tonight after that. But anyway, thank you Mr Speaker for allowing me but a short call tonight on the Self-contained Motor Vehicles Legislation Bill, and as the final speaker on this bill as well. While I didn’t sit on the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee when this bill was first heard in 2022, I do understand that this is an omnibus bill and that it amends two of the Acts: the Freedom Camping Act 2011 and the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Act 2006.

My mum and dad’s dream was to buy a campervan, but my dad’s just retired, so the likelihood of that is pretty nil, unless he wins lotto. But he will, hopefully, be able to hire a campervan, and I might have to talk to the member Dan Rosewarne and see if we can borrow that when we’re going over to Christchurch. But anyway, their dream is to—like most Kiwis—travel Aotearoa New Zealand, to bask in the beauty of our country and to enjoy discovery in our own backyards.

Hon Andrew Little: It’s to get out of Levin.

TERISA NGOBI: Aw, I know! Actually, you wouldn’t want to get out of the Ōtaki electorate because it is beautiful and we have a lot of tourists here, but they want to see the rest of beautiful Aotearoa as well. However, they don’t want to be basking in the sun with the smell and the sight of bodily fluids by irresponsible campers or freedom campers.

This bill requires vehicle-based freedom campers to have a fixed wharepaku, or toilet. And we are all responsible: whether you’re a visitor to Aotearoa New Zealand or whether you live here and you want to see the sights like my parents, we are all responsible to be good kaitiaki, or good caretakers of this land. And that should be an expectation whether you’re coming over here or whether you live here and you want to go, like I said, like my parents, and you want to go and have a look around. This bill supports that. This bill makes sure that there are provisions for people to be able to make those really good choices: having a toilet, or I heard earlier the member Naisi Chen talk about there are some places for about $30 where you can park up and use the toilet facilities there. There’s no need to be dumping in the bushes. There’s no need to be using our beautiful country as your personal toilet.

This is about keeping up our clean, green—keeping New Zealand beautiful—image. This is about looking after Papatūānuku, and, as I said, we are all responsible for that. I don’t understand how you can be opposed to that, actually—wanting to make sure that we look after Aotearoa New Zealand. And for that, I commend this bill to the House.