Urgent Debates — Oranga Tamariki—Allegations of Inappropriate Sexual Behaviour by Staff in Oranga Tamariki Residences

Karen Chhour’s letter was received first; therefore, I call on her to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.

At 11 a.m., we were shocked with an emergency media stand-up from Oranga Tamariki to talk about an issue that has arisen. There were allegations of inappropriate sexual behaviour from two staff members of Oranga Tamariki—this is just coming to light. These are two separate facilities, one facility is where children who have committed crimes are in a facility that should be protecting them from harming themselves or harming anybody else who is not safe, and then the other facility is a care and protection facility. The words “care” and “protection” become a bit of a joke when they are not being protected within that very facility.

We have had so many incidences, since I’ve become an MP in this House, where Oranga Tamariki has come into a bad light with the way that they are running the organisation. We had humongous debates around watering down the oversight of Oranga Tamariki last year, and in September last year I stood up and I even had a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) for this very issue with youth justice facilities and facilities run by Oranga Tamariki. I had an SOP that I put forward and I asked for the Labour Government to accept that SOP that would allow somebody to go unannounced into a youth justice facility, or any organisation that was run by Oranga Tamariki, if a child felt they were not safe within that organisation and needed somebody there to represent them—and that SOP was shot down.

We had two young people that sat and spilled their guts on national TV, begging this Government to make sure their children within youth justice facilities and Oranga Tamariki - run facilities were kept safe and had advocates that could come in and advocate for them. But we watered down that Oranga Tamariki oversight. We split it into three separate organisations and we said children would fall between these cracks, young people would fall between these cracks, and we’re seeing it happen already. Where were the people that were supposed to protect these young people? Five young people so far have come forward to say that they have been inappropriately touched and inappropriate sexual behaviour has happened within these facilities—from what I can tell. You know, there’s not much information right now, but this is a sign that Oranga Tamariki is not fit to run these facilities. They’re even having to hand it over to somebody else now, because they’re not fit to run these facilities.

How can we call them “care and protection facilities” when we’re not protecting these kids. They’ve been traumatised most of their life, probably; they’ve been put in a facility where we’re meant to take care of them and provide them with the services and what they need, and we’re traumatising them all over again. We had this argument last year—that children were not being listened to, children were not being heard, and children were being sent into places where they were not safe. They felt like they were not being heard, and now it’s come to fruition. It’s not that long ago that we were having this discussion, and nobody over in the Labour corner would listen to these young people. Nobody would listen to every other party in this House that said we’re getting this wrong.

And now we’ve got five children—that we know of—that have been harmed and hurt. I am so angry on behalf of these kids. We cannot take that harm back. We cannot fix this problem. We already had just finished an inquiry of abuse in care. We’ve pushed that inquiry report-back to next year. We haven’t even finished apologising for past abuse, and the abuse is still happening. Apologies mean nothing if it is still happening. And nobody wants to stand up and actually take responsibility for this. These are children that rely on us. These are children that rely on us to protect them, and we are not doing it. Where were the people that were meant to be there for these kids, to say, “Hey, something’s not right.” Where were the social workers? Where were the counsellors? Where were the staff that were meant to protect these kids? If these facilities are overcrowded, if they are understaffed, why hasn’t something been put in place to make sure that these kids are protected? These facilities are lock-up facilities with CCTV cameras. How is this happening? Why is nobody speaking up? And why has it taken so long for this to come out and for us to actually be able to debate this?

We can’t keep doing this. And I’ve stood in this House and said this on my very first day. I know I’ll have to have these uncomfortable conversations, but I keep having these uncomfortable conversations—and it shouldn’t be the case. We should be getting it right by now. How many millions of dollars have we spent on an inquiry into past abuse; have we not learnt? Have we not put processes in place to make sure this doesn’t keep happening? To stand up and say, “This is not good enough, it shouldn’t have happened. We’re going to have another inquiry.” I’m sick of reading inquiries. They say the same thing over and over again for years, and nothing’s changed. It’s another generation that’s so broken they can’t be fixed. Where is the outrage for these kids? Where are the people that are standing up and saying, “This is not OK”? Because these kids need a voice and they need to be heard. I don’t want to have to stand up here again and be apologising next year for the next five kids that haven’t been protected—what are we doing?

We need to get this right. We need to take the politics out of this and put the kids at the front, to work together—all parties—to make sure that we’re not standing here in 20 years’ time apologising for another 20 years of abuse in care, because I am not going to take responsibility for that. But this Government needs to take some responsibility for lightening the oversight of Oranga Tamariki a year ago and not taking it seriously enough. And now we’re finding that the advocacy for these young people was not there. That’s not their fault; it is partly the Government’s fault for taking away that advocacy. It’s OK to admit when you’re wrong; what’s not OK is to keep making excuses. I’ll keep standing here if I have to and yelling from the rooftops until not one more child is let down by an organisation that’s meant to protect them. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

First of all, I’d like to say that nobody is making excuses. I found out on 8 June about the first instance of alleged inappropriate behaviour, Oranga Tamariki (OT) did address it, and then, just last Friday, I heard of the second instance. So Oranga Tamariki has said that the second instance shows a bit of a pattern and that we need to get to the bottom of this, and so the Chief Executive of Oranga Tamariki has appointed Mike Bush, a former Commissioner of Police, to act as deputy chief executive and to have authority over the Oranga Tamariki residences. This decision has been made in response to these serious allegations involving young people.

Now, while the news of the allegations today is incredibly disappointing, appointing Mike to get to the bottom of these issues and ensure residences and community homes are safe is the right thing to do. It is the Government’s expectation that children should feel safe and supported while in these facilities—no ifs or buts—and the Minister for Children has made that clear to Oranga Tamariki. Most staff are committed to just that, and it is frustrating and disappointing that a small number of individuals have overshadowed the work that Oranga Tamariki has done. But the safety of young people must always come first, and this move will ensure that.

The two staff have been stood down immediately. As I said, the first instance I heard of on 8 June—that staff member was stood down immediately then, so I can’t go any more into that because there is a police investigation. Mike Bush’s first task will lead an independent rapid assessment across residences. This will then widen to all care and protection in community homes, as there are also wider issues including facility security and staff retention to consider. This will take four weeks.

Focus will then shift to Mike Bush implementing a new operating model, building off work already under way. Shannon Pakura, a member of the Minister’s advisory board and former chief social worker, will work alongside Mike Bush. All residence staff will be re-vetted during this process. This is common practice in New Zealand Police and the Department of Corrections, but does not happen currently in Oranga Tamariki residences.

These actions are the right thing to do, and the safety of the children must come first. The absolute priority is the safety and wellbeing of these tamariki. Oranga Tamariki residences should be safe, should be supportive, and should be rehabilitative places for some of New Zealand’s most vulnerable young people. We are working hard to ensure the whānau of the young people at the centre of this are kept informed and included as we support police to complete their investigations.

It is no secret that Oranga Tamariki residences have their problems. We know that there is a need for significant improvement, and that improvement needs to be led by someone who is coming in fresh but with significant experience, which is why Mike Bush has been appointed. Mike is here to make sure that all our residences are operating safely and that they are fit for purpose. We have legal obligations to maintain residences for young people who commit crimes. We are already working towards moving away from care and protection residences towards community-based care. The Government’s expectation is that these places are safe, supportive, and rehabilitative, and we need to understand the full picture to understand what work is needed.

As I’ve said, the allegations raised today are very concerning, and I am pleased that OT has acted swiftly to address them. There is significant work under way to transform Oranga Tamariki. It knows it has work to do, and myself, as the Minister for Children, I have made my expectations clear. We are starting to see the results, but it’s not a fast or easy road, and we know children must come first. There will never ever be an urgent debate asked for to discuss the tens of thousands of children that Oranga Tamariki helps every single year to stay out of care.

One area of change has been to start transferring decision making to communities. We know communities have the solutions. A key part of the change under way at Oranga Tamariki is to enable communities to support tamariki and rangatahi to stay with family wherever possible. Oranga Tamariki continues to make fundamental changes in its approach to practice to better meet the needs of children and families, and to allow social workers to work in complementary ways to iwi-, Māori-, and community-led approaches. Trials under way across the country to test out a new practice framework have been met with positive results and feedback from social workers, and there are early reports of whānau and communities noticing changes in the way social workers are working with them.

Funding shifts have also begun to reflect this approach. Iwi and Māori organisations received $155 million last year, up from $55 million in 2017. Funding from recent Budgets has allowed Oranga Tamariki to be flexible and innovative in the partnerships space, setting up the foundations for transformational change. So far, nine prototypes across Waikato, Taumarunui, Ōtautahi, Te Tai Tokerau, and Heretaunga are participating in the Enabling Communities initiative. They are developing, planning, and leading their own prevention and early support prototype, rather than Oranga Tamariki making the decisions. Of the nine prototypes, six are at the stage where they are actively undertaking service design.

Te Ara Mātua was launched in Hawke’s Bay in April and is a Ngāti Kahungunu-led approach to provide support and care for tamariki and their whānau living in Te Matau-a-Māui. It is about putting resources and decision making at the hands of communities so they can lead the solutions for their tamariki and whānau. An example of this transformation is the prototype of the Enabling Communities work within Hawke’s Bay. Te Ara Mātua aims to provide services and support to keep tamariki and their whānau out of the Oranga Tamariki system and to return those tamariki currently in the system to the protection of the whānau, hapū, and iwi. Under the korowai of Ngāti Kahungunu, whānau with lived experience of Oranga Tamariki continue to guide the design and the development of the model.

OT is also working closely with other agencies, and we’re making changes in the youth offending space. Late last year, the Government announced the “circuit-breaker” response to address serious repeat offending by a small group of children aged 10 to 13. The fast-tracked intervention means that when police apprehend a child, information must be shared with Oranga Tamariki within 24 hours and a plan for the child confirmed in 48 hours. Hopefully, this will keep those young people out of residences.

The fast track involves establishing local coordination teams working across Government, community organisations, and iwi, which take over receiving police referrals once set up. The response was launched in West Auckland and South Auckland, with an expansion to central Auckland, Hamilton, and Christchurch announced as part of this year’s Budget. This evidence-based approach works. In South Auckland and West Auckland, only 26 percent of children have been re-referred by police.

It is initiatives like this that will help transform the way we care for our children in need across the country. The Government is committed to ensuring the safety and wellbeing of tamariki across the country, both in and out of Oranga Tamariki residences. The decision Chappie Te Kani has made to appoint Mike Bush and get to the bottom of what’s going on was the right one, but there is no quick fix.

In 2022-23, Oranga Tamariki responded to over 50,000 reports of concern. Between the 2018 financial year and the 2022 financial year, the number of children in care reduced by 25 percent, from 6,316 to 4,722. We now have the lowest number of children and young people entering care since 2004—the lowest since the inception of Oranga Tamariki. In the last four years, the number of tamariki in care, as I’ve said, has reduced by over 25 percent. Between the 2018 financial year and the 2022 financial year, the number of uplifts has reduced by 73 percent, from 1,473 to 402. In the last five years, the total funding given to Māori providers increased by 168 percent, from $54.5 million to $146.1 million. [Interruption]

They’re asking what we have done. We have found out about the allegations. We have appointed Mike Bush to get to the bottom of these things. Now, they’d be sitting there screaming if nothing was done; the fact that something has been done immediately—

💬 Matt Doocey: Well, you haven’t told us what you’ve done.

Well, you didn’t listen to the first half of the speech, and that’s your problem.

The National and the ACT Government established Oranga Tamariki, and it was failing right from the outset. It has taken me, as Minister, to actually start making the changes. It’s taken me, as Minister, to start handing over resources and decision making to communities. Every single day—every single day—we were hearing complaints about Oranga Tamariki, and now that’s dried up. That was dried up carefully, but there will be every now and then something like this, where a staff member lets the rest of the team down. But that party over there had no answers when they were in Government—absolutely no answers. They changed the system, but it failed.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Going political on a day like today? No, not good enough.

“Mr Tesla” there—“Mr Tesla” is pointing the finger—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! Yeah, I’m going to make a ruling. When you’re referring to another member in the House, you need to refer to them in their correct name. You can’t have nicknames.

I withdraw and apologise. This Government has been turning around what was a disgrace set up by the National Government in 2017. This Government—this Government—has reduced the numbers—

💬 Nicola Willis: On your watch—six years.

—of offences. She can sit there screaming as much as she wants at me, but the reality is that Oranga Tamariki is a better organisation than it was under the National Government when they established it. The numbers I’ve just said about the reduced numbers of children entering care—that’s evidence.

💬 Matt Doocey: This isn’t about that. It’s about when they are in care, how you keep them safe.

That is evidence—yeah, but the best way to care for children in residences is to make sure they don’t get to the residences in the first place. But you are the Government that wants to arrest more and throw more people into residences, into prison. That’s the problem—that is the problem. The more children you put in there, the worse things are going to be, not just now but into the future. It is a disgrace that the National Party is sitting there and they are saying that they can do things better when their history is about failing children—

💬 Nicola Willis: You failed them.

—failing young people. Nicola Willis’ party is the party that failed young people, and this is the party that is making the improvements to Oranga Tamariki. They can say what they want as much as they want. The reality is that their track record has been a record of failure in terms of protecting children.

One final point I’d like to make: there has been a reference to the royal commission of inquiry and saying that we are repeating the things that have happened in the royal commission of inquiry. What happened over the 50 years of the royal commission of inquiry was systemic and it was enduring. This shows, because the incidents happened very recently, Oranga Tamariki has acted immediately. It shows that this is not systemic, this is not enduring, and this is not long-going.

Oranga Tamariki has taken steps to get to the bottom of this problem, and that’s what Mike Bush will do. I commend the Chief Executive of Oranga Tamariki, Chappie Te Kani, for acting quickly, for acting swiftly to make sure that we get to the bottom of it and that these sorts of things do not happen again.

I am sure that every member in this House when the news broke this morning of five children in the care of the State being taken advantage of and sexually abused—your heart drops to the floor. But having been in the House and listened to the Minister responsible, I feel as if my heart has been ripped out, squashed, and torn apart, because not once did that Minister take responsibility. Not once. And not once did he apologise or show any inclination of the care and protection and the duty he has to every single child in a youth justice facility or in State care. Not once—not once. Instead, he turns around and makes the lowest form of defensive attack. And that’s exactly what we saw. Instead, what we should have is humanity for those five children, and I am deeply concerned that there are others to come.

And I want to say why I’m even more concerned about it—because the first thing the Minister said was he knew about it on 8 June. What’s the date today? It’s the 21st. How many sleeps have children in care been at risk because the Minister waited until the spin was lined up before being willing to be held accountable for his job, which is to protect—to protect—the children in State care? Now, I want to acknowledge my colleague Karen Chhour for her address to this House, because she more than anyone in this Chamber knows exactly what she is talking about, and for every child that has been in or is in State care, Oranga Tamariki has one job—one job—and that is to keep them safe from harm.

Let’s just for a moment have a think about those children. The Minister wants to crow about numbers. He wants to crow about the fact that there are fewer children in State care than there were when Labour came in. Actually, I don’t care about the numbers. I care about those children being safe. So is it that they are safer because they have been taken into State care, or is it that they are being safe while they are in State care? Both of those things matter—the numbers don’t. The primary purpose has to be for Oranga Tamariki children’s safety and their safety from harm. So it’s about care and protection. It is crazy—the words “care and protection” is what the care and protection units are. I know there will be many New Zealanders who, like many on the side, feel absolutely crushed right now to know that we have a Minister for Children who doesn’t see his top priority as the safety of children. And I want to reflect back on the work that Paula Bennett did. I went to multiple public meetings with the green paper, with the white paper. Some of my colleagues who were in Parliament at that time remembered how harrowing—how harrowing—those discussions were. That’s what led to the creation of the Ministry for Vulnerable Children.

So these five children are the most vulnerable. And a child in State care, any child in a youth justice facility, has a level of vulnerability that most of us cannot even imagine. And we know that there is a Minister who is responsible who spent most of his 15 minutes—well, a big chunk of it; the last five—attacking this side of the House—bizarre—and the majority of the rest of it talking about process and systems. No, Minister, we want to know and New Zealand wants to know that you have a heart, that you have a commitment, and that you take responsibility for the children who are in State care.

But, unfortunately, some of this could have been predicted. When every party in Parliament other than Labour vehemently opposed changes to the oversight of Oranga Tamariki, unfortunately the writing was on the wall. But you do hope. You do hope that what you are most afraid of isn’t realised. But that’s what’s happened. That’s what happened on 8 June, when the Minister was first alerted. But no, we wait until the 21st, because then they’ve got their ducks lined up and they’ve got someone investigating and it makes it look as if they’ve got it under control. Well, guess what! They haven’t got it under control. I have not heard that we have a Minister who is taking the care and protection of those children seriously, and I think that should be deeply, deeply alarming to New Zealanders.

I want to reflect back on the oversight of Oranga Tamariki legislation. One of the organisations that was set up in Paula Bennett’s time and then transferred to Anne Tolley was VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, to make sure that those children and young people who were care-experienced had a voice and that we made sure that they were at the heart of any changes to the system. Well, guess what! When the oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system legislation was before Parliament, they were ignored. And so, unfortunately, what we have now seen is more harm to a group of children who are already incredibly vulnerable and who have experienced more in their short lifetimes than most of us will ever experience in our entire lifetimes.

We have a duty of care of the highest level to those children, and so it is frustrating to be in the House today and to have heard completely and utterly empty words from the Minister. Not once did I get a glimpse of his heart and his care, and I want to just actually point out that the values of Oranga Tamariki are “We put tamariki first.” I didn’t hear that today. I didn’t hear that in 15 minutes. Not once. So where are the priorities? The Minister for Children should focus on care and protection, and the first job—the first job—of the Minister for Children is to do no harm to the children in his care. I’ll say that again. They are in his care. And whether there’s 1,000 or 5,000 is irrelevant. Every single child counts and is owed a duty of care, from the Minister to the chief executive to every single staff member. And when there is an issue, the expectation of those young people, of their families, of our communities, of our country is it will be dealt with urgency, not however many days later.

And for those who have heard some of stories from the royal commission into the abuse in State care, they are harrowing. They are absolutely harrowing, and it is unacceptable to the public of New Zealand that harm continues to exist. So here we go again. Here we go again. We are focused on the children, but instead what happens? The Government uses it as an opportunity to attack. Not once did the Minister say sorry. Not once.

The priority should be on each and every one of those children in State care, and whether they are in the care and protection units or whether they are in a youth justice facility is irrelevant. They deserve the highest level of care and protection. And under this Government yet again, it is an area Labour has failed to deliver to our most vulnerable. It is appalling and a disgrace.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I’m finding this debate actually quite difficult to listen to, to be honest. I genuinely believe that this has been distressing news for everybody in this House. I recognise that it’s unacceptable and a breach of the Crown’s responsibilities to young people in our care and protection system, which includes youth justice, and that, actually, we all have a role in terms of that oversight. I want to be very clear that a harm to those children and to their whānau is a harm to all of us, and I want to communicate that to the people who caused this harm that we are standing with those children while due process, of course, is followed.

I really just want to say my love to those kids and their families, because this is a really, really hard time. I also want to acknowledge that this will be a really triggering event for people who have been submitting to the royal commission, who have been telling us really clearly that they are standing up and sharing their stories to prevent this happening to any more kids. Our words in this discussion matter in terms of the message that we are sending to everybody who is being impacted right now and historically.

I just wish we could ensure that our kids were safe. It’s our job to do that, right? When they’ve been removed from unsafe environments into our care, it’s our job to make sure that they are safe. And this isn’t the first time—I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour and her impassioned speech and acknowledging that we’ve all been part of this debate more than once. I have been part of this debate with different parties in Government.

This is not the first time, but every time I want it to be the last time, because I do not want our kids to have to keep experiencing this. And while one case of violence in a residence is too many, there has been a pattern of abuse in youth justice residences. And, you know, today, we’re finding out about five children who’ve been abused by Oranga Tamariki staff working in youth justice and care protection residences at two different residences within the last year. That is my understanding of what we know at the moment.

In 2021, we found out that staff were using excessive force and assaulting children at Te Oranga in Christchurch, which resulted in Sir Wira Gardiner, who was head of Oranga Tamariki at that time, closing the facility down, and details from an Office of the Children’s Commissioner report into Palmerston North youth justice home Te Au rere a te Tonga showed young residents had made serious allegations and complaints about staff there, too, including disproportionate excessive force during restraints; inciting young people to fight with staff members; bullying, swearing, humiliating, and yelling at young people; hitting them in secure units and their bedrooms.

So this is all within recent times. We know that part of the problem is the set-up of these institutions that are legacy institutions and that the incredibly vulnerable young people, and they may be young people who have been removed from homes for their safety or from young people—who we so often hear vilified in this House as being a risk to others; usually there is significant overlap of those young offenders who go into youth justice residences almost always have histories of abuse where they have been taught their violence as an essential way of trying to survive in a very violent world—that we also have responsibility for.

And you put those young people into residences, away from connection and community and external eyes. We know from international evidence that there is a higher risk of people going to work in those places, actually; without really strong protections in place, there is a higher potential for abuse of power and for violence being done to those children.

It was pleasing to hear that we were going to be closing these residences. I do have questions that I do need answered at some point because, you know, almost—in 2021, I had a conversation with the Minister about the closing of those residencies and the time frame for that and an acknowledgment that those residencies are really badly designed and problematic and a safety risk in themselves.

We are seeing that that work—I really want to know what actions have been taken to provide more supervision, oversight, and support for staff working in those residences and what investment, if any, has been made into those youth justice residences to make them safer and to enhance the wellbeing of children there.

Because the reports from Treasury last year indicated that there was an under spend of 43 percent of Budget 2019 funding for youth justice resilience upgrades. It may seem like I’m talking about something other than the immediate safety of those children, but the design of those buildings actually can enable abuse or they can protect against it. So those upgrades are an important part of this conversation and there does need to be direct accountability for that as there is accountability in terms of investigating these.

We’ve also heard that Judge Eivers, the Children’s Commissioner, said that events under investigation came to light from an unannounced visit to her office. I really want to know if this is true, and, if yes, what does this say about our system of protection for young people that they have to go to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner to report rather than other members of or managers in those residences? Because when I think on that too much, it just really, honestly, disturbs me that these kids who were experiencing this harm did not feel that anybody in those residences would protect them. That is disturbing to me, and I hope that that is a part of the investigation about actually what do we need to do to ensure that all of those people are seen as safe people for our young people if something happens.

It also speaks to an issue that has been raised about the opposition to the Oranga Tamariki oversight bill and that splintering of oversight and the removal of the multiple roles of protection from the Office of the Children’s Commissioner.

I think the fact that these young people went to the Children’s Commissioner is another evidence to me of why we were opposing that bill, because, actually, the Children’s Commissioner, again and again, we’ve been told is trusted by whānau and our kids. We’ve seen here, if we are to ensure that there’s a protection and a backup and that we do not ever get into a situation where the royal commission is examining at the moment of the failure to protect and take action when harm has been done, we need trusted people and we need our system to be set up around the people that our children tell us they trust, that our whānau tell us they trust. And so this feels to me as if it is more evidence about us needing to relook at that policy.

I also want to know whether the claims of sexual violence experienced by young people within residences are filtering up through the system and what the process for that is and where in the Oranga Tamariki future direction planned actions which will prevent and eliminate sexual violence and physical violence within the residences—because we need it. And I don’t accept that this should continue. I do not accept, either, that the Government is showing they don’t care, because there actually was a response, and I do want to acknowledge that—the royal commission told us that that hasn’t been happening. We need it, but we need all of the questions to be answered and for all of us to be accountable.

Tēnā koe, Mr Speaker. It gives me no pleasure to stand today to talk on this matter. I want to first of all acknowledge Karen Chhour for the mamae that she has brought to this House today, for the pain and the distress that I heard in her voice, and also for all of us here who are experiencing that because no one—let me be 100 percent clear—ever wants a child to be harmed. No one ever, ever wants a child to be harmed.

I want to also acknowledge Jan Logie for her speech as well. I think it was reasoned and I think it brought some more decorum to the House at a time that I think we need to not play politics. This is a serious matter—five children—and we need to, quite simply, acknowledge that this has happened, to ensure that it never happens again, and in that circumstance what I have to say is that I am very pleased that Mike Bush has been appointed and will be working through this process. There is a process to be worked through. It is serious.

I understand the children, the young people at the heart of this, have been given support to deal with this matter—something they should never have had to deal with, but I understand there has been wraparound support services for those children. I also understand that Mike Bush is doing a wide-ranging inquiry into this matter. I also understand, and my apologies, I was not aware of the circumstance until the debate was called, so my understanding is that it was actually two staff members who whistle-blew this matter, who actually raised issues and concerns about their work colleagues, and that was how this matter was raised and identified.

We all want to ensure the safety of children. We all want to make sure that children are safe and, as boring and unfortunate as it sounds, there must be policies, procedures, and processes that are set in place in these organisations that ensure our children are safe. I can’t say it any more plainly than that. There must be systems in place, and I have to say that in this instance it appears very much that there were not, and I am incredibly sorry for that. And I know that we all are incredibly sorry for that.

I want to also just acknowledge that these places that we put these young people are not places that we would want any of our children to go. These are not the places that we should aspire for our children to end up. The Minister spoke today about the things that we are doing with Oranga Tamariki, the community response that we are having. It is my hope, in the future, that we don’t have youth justice facilities for our young people and that we don’t have these facilities where these young people are put. But it is community that uplifts and wraps around our children and protects them, and it is a community response that we have as opposed to the State needing to intervene.

And so I do say that I am so very sorry that I am here, as the member Jan Logie said, speaking again on a matter of this nature, but I think that we need quite simply to do better and that we should do better. There is nothing more to say, quite frankly, except that this House, and I believe I speak on behalf of all members of this House, are incredibly sorry that this has happened to these children, to their whānau, and to our community, and I ask that we, each and every one of us, respond in a way that is fitting for the House at a time when this awful event has occurred.

First of all, Mr Speaker, I acknowledge you for allowing the House to address this under urgent debate, recognising the importance of this and the priority that not just this House but New Zealand and New Zealanders must give to the importance of the care and protection of all of our children—but most especially our children who are the most vulnerable, who have been abused, traumatised, damaged, institutionalised and put into the care of the State. We’ve heard today that the State has failed in its duty of care to five vulnerable, abused, traumatised, and damaged children. They aren’t the first—the question is, will they be the last? Mr Speaker, I acknowledge you for the dignity that you have allowed the importance of this debate to be addressed and raised in the House under urgency.

Like the former speaker Angie Warren-Clark, I heard of this news belatedly. A number of us have been in the Social Services and Community Committee since early this morning, and it was on leaving that that news broke and we became aware of this event, and that these allegations that the Minister for Children disclosed in the House today came to his knowledge on 8 June: this month; this year. According to the news media reports, Chappie Te Kani, the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, has said that on Wednesday, two staff members have been removed in relation to the alleged inappropriate sexual behaviour, and it’s reported that he said he was informed of the allegations in the past week—in the past week—yet we have a Minister for Children disclosing in the House that he became aware of these allegations on 8 June 2023; today is 21 June 2023. I pose the question: will this be the last time that our most vulnerable, who are placed into the care and protection of the State to care and protect them—will this be the last time?

On 30 June 2021, the then chief executive, Sir Wira Gardiner, commenced an investigation into excessive force in youth justice residences, and here we are, two years later, almost to the day—there are further victims of abuse in our State agency. I’m particularly perturbed—it’s not just significantly important and it’s not just five children who have been subjected to further abuse. I know, and a number of us know, that these kids go into these institutions because they have been damaged. Having been a youth advocate, going into those institutions and working alongside our children, I know the trauma that many of them have suffered before going into the very place that should provide that blanket of protection for them. But I am seriously concerned and perturbed that we have a Minister for Children standing in this House, devoid of compassion for those children, pointing the finger across the House, playing the politics. The politics must be taken out of this, and the priority has to be about how we collectively—not just as a Parliament, but as a society, as New Zealanders—put the priority and shift the culture of our country to cherish our children; tiaki our tamariki. They are taonga; why are they continually subjected to this ongoing culture of being treated as second- and third- class citizens?

Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing and indulging us the opportunity to raise and to lift the importance of this issue under this debate of urgency. Distressing; appalling; repugnant; repulsive; abusive; despicable. And I speak not just as a member of Parliament, I speak not just as a former youth justice advocate; I speak as a mother, and if that was one of my children—but they are the children of five whānau, of a community; they are children that were in the State care and protection, and this continues to happen.

Had it not been for the Children’s Commissioner having the power and authority to visit unannounced into a youth justice residence—or residences; it’s not known how many; it is known that there are five children where allegations have been made and disclosed as a result of the Children’s Commission Office going in unannounced, conducting inquiries and investigations. I look over and I see my colleague Matt Doocey, spokesperson for mental health. I know as a former district inspector of mental health, having the power and the authority to go into these institutions unannounced, to conduct investigations and inquiries is so very important to keep the balance of power there, because we have people, we have children in these institutions where they are powerless. They are in the protection, supposedly, of the State, of the authority—all the more reason that the Minister for Children should be acting with a measure of compassion, a measure of care, a measure of articulating that the State has a responsibility and duty of care and a legal responsibility to ensure our children are protected. Instead, I bore witness—along with everybody else in this House and those who are watching from the TV world—to a Minister who stood there and pointed the finger across the House. Where is the compassion in that? Where is the accountability? Where is the acceptance of responsibility? A Minister is in that position, irrespective of which Government or which party. Let’s take the politics out of this and position and put our children at the forefront.

We had legislation in this House earlier this year and last year, called the Oversight of the Oranga Tamariki System—Act, it now is. This Government has failed to act in putting the priority, in putting the best interests and welfare of our children at the front, first, and foremost. And I continue to advocate in this House, as I’ve always done, on child welfare legislation or bills proposed in this House that the Government has overlooked. It has had oversight and put its politics before the welfare, the best interests, the paramountcy of those principles and legal responsibilities for our children. What must come out of this is accountability, and for this Government—for the Minister for Children—to stop standing there pointing the finger and remonstrating and saying “we need to look inwards; we need to make things better.”

In closing, Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate this, because it is urgent. It is a priority, and we collectively, as parliamentarians, must ensure that the welfare, best interests, care, and protection of all children but especially those who are in the State institutions of care are, first, front, and foremost, protected and cared for.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I open, this afternoon, by acknowledging the situation that has happened. It is a national travesty when our tamariki aren’t protected within a system that we all collectively in this House are trying to improve.

I reflect on the debate this afternoon and, while I think you do a wonderful job in this House, it must be a difficult decision at times whether a debate in this House on such a topic, one that is so sensitive, is the best way to air the challenges and issues at hand. I reflect—

💬 SPEAKER: You shouldn’t bring me into the debate.

And I reflect on the contributions in this House today and ask ourselves: is this the best contribution that we can make as politicians when we think about the future of our tamariki, when we think about the future of Oranga Tamariki, and an issue that over generations and decades this country has tried to resolve?

I’ve listened to the contributions from across the room this afternoon, and I ask every politician in this House to take a step back, to humble ourselves for just a moment, albeit the political excitement of the day. I hear from across the House calling out a Minister for pointing his finger. Yet, at that part of his speech, 11 minutes into it—11 minutes—the Opposition had shouted over him; had shouted over him, acknowledging the issue, talking about what action had been taken by Oranga Tamariki on a very, very serious allegation.

Politicians in this House did not listen, and I am going to hold you to account for that. If you want to hear an answer, if you want to hear an explanation, then as politicians we have to listen in this House. We must listen, because, on such national travesty in this country, collectively we’ve got to work together to address it. I hold the Opposition to account when they were the Government. They didn’t deliver for these tamariki—they did not deliver for these tamariki. And, no, we haven’t got everything right, but the steps that we have made while in Government are progressive.

When I went to visit a youth justice home, just last week, in my electorate, I met with young people, met with people who are doing work to get our rangatahi on the right pathway—people that see them as Māori, people that see them as Pasifika, people that see them for who they are, not people that the Opposition is encouraging to be colour-blind. We want our tamariki to be who they are, but, most of all, we want them to be protected.

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge all the staff that are working at Oranga Tamariki—that, collectively, take ownership of protecting our tamariki in their care—every person that works with young people in this country, in our youth justice system, that works and strives and slogs their guts out to protect every young person that is in State care. And absolutely there is more work to do, but anyone in this House that thinks this is easy or wants to run down the staff of Oranga Tamariki is inappropriate. Harete Hipango, you need to listen to people’s speeches, because the Opposition ran down staff. I want to acknowledge every staff member that supports children and rangatahi in State care, because they are the people that matter. Our young people and our children rely on them. Let’s work together. Let’s humble ourselves.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker. I have a lot of respect for Shanan Halbert—

💬 Harete Hipango: Shanan, me whakamā koe [you should be ashamed].

💬 Shanan Halbert: Kei a koe. Kei a koe. Whakarongo ki te kōrero. [That’s up to you. That’s up to you. Listen to the statement.]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Sorry to interrupt. This is not question time, OK. Members who have spoken in this debate about the volume and the type of interjections and then participate in it should think again about it.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker. I have a lot of respect for Shanan Halbert, but I must say he is better than that, and he will regret that speech on the Hansard. That was absolutely appalling, and a common theme of the Government speakers in this urgent debate this afternoon.

I’d like to start by acknowledging Karen Chhour for bringing this urgent debate to the House. What is more important of Parliament’s time than to be highlighting an issue that we learnt about today? Because the reality is these young people are our young people. As a parent, we do not know what’s ahead of us in our lives. Any of our young people through unfortunate life experiences can end up in State care, and it’s paramount that Parliament, and that the Government, and that State make sure that their best interests are at heart. And that’s why it’s important today that we have this urgent debate. Because in my view the importance of an urgent debate is to ensure New Zealanders that this issue is being taken seriously—there is accountability, there is responsibility, that we give this country confidence that issues like this are being addressed, and we work hard to ensure that they’re prevented from happening again.

So here we had the Minister responsible—and let’s be very clear because it will be recorded on the Hansard—that during a time that he was there to assure the public, to give them confidence that he understood the issues that we are debating today, and he was taking action and being accountable and responsible, he took the opportunity to take political hotshots—wanted to raise the political issue of maybe the Leader of the Opposition potentially buying a Tesla under the Clean Car Discount.

💬 Harete Hipango: Despicable.

Disgusting. Indefensible that the Minister responsible took the opportunity to take the time, off the eye off the ball of this debate, to get into the weeds, and get into the gutter of political potshots. Because what this urgent debate has shown today is that Minister has absolutely failed in his ministerial role. He gives the young people in Oranga Tamariki care—he gives, actually, the staff in Oranga Tamariki care absolutely no confidence in his ministerial responsibility and accountability. It was his time as a Minister to step up and let people of New Zealand know that he understood the issues.

Go back to that speech and tell me: where was the compassion? Where was the understanding? Where did he demonstrate that he knew what was happening on the ground for those young people? Where did the Minister articulate the actions that he had taken? He was very quick to talk about expectations but didn’t outline what expectations he has. When did he talk about what instructions he had given the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki? Nothing. Where was the plan going forward?

This is the role of an urgent debate, to highlight an issue—for the people responsible to step up, be held to account, and give New Zealanders confidence that this is being prevented from happening in the future. Because there is real concern here today. We learn of inappropriate sexual behaviour for two young people, but we find out over the year: five young people. This is concerning, yet we had a Minister get up, show no real compassion to the issue, and then read a script out from the bureaucrats. Mr Speaker, those young people deserve better.

It is everybody’s expectation that every child and young person in the care of Oranga Tamariki should be safe, should feel safe, and be supported. I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour, who brought this urgent debate to the House, but I want to take this opportunity to cover three things. One, I will talk about the people that are involved; secondly, the steps that have taken place; and, third, learn from these experiences.

I have worked in Oranga Tamariki for quite some time—30 years—as a social worker, as a supervisor of social workers, as a youth justice manager, as an adviser, and I found myself here in 2017. The process, the people involved—so I want to acknowledge the young people and their families who are involved. I want to acknowledge the staff who saw that something wasn’t quite right and reported it.

Incidents that happen like this involve interviewing the young people along with the police, because it then becomes an evidential police interview. So I want to acknowledge everyone that is involved—the staff, the social workers that have to inform the parents that this has happened. I want to acknowledge all the residents. Even though five young people have been identified as being affected, even though there were five, two staff members, the whole residents, the whole community are affected. Every one of those people who started work last week, today, last month, last year has the same expectation as we all have: that every child and young person in their care should feel safe, be safe, and be supported.

I want to acknowledge the leadership that has taken the steps that have been taken so far. The former commissioner, Mike Bush, I met him when he was leading the Prevention First programme in South Auckland, which led to the whole of the changes in the Police. I want to acknowledge the leadership that have chosen the right people to look at this because, as I mentioned before, police and Oranga Tamariki have to work together and have been working together.

I want to acknowledge the former chief social worker, Shannon Pakura, who is working alongside Mike Bush to get to a place that we can identify without all these emotions that we hear in the House, who can actually take a clear head and come back to the fact that children should be safe and should feel safe when in the care of the State.

We’ve listened to all the experiences in this House and from the member herself, Karen Chhour, and to former lawyers. We’ve listened to everybody’s contribution in this House. But we will take comfort that the people who are now in charge of reviewing the residences have been given a time frame of four to six weeks to begin implementing any outcomes they get from this review. I want to acknowledge that I take peace from that. But I go back to the first part of my contribution about the young people, about the people involved in the residences, the young people that will be interviewed by more than one person, will be interviewed by an evidential video interviewer. Well, that’s what happened when I was last in Oranga Tamariki in 2017.

I want to acknowledge the families who received the news that this has happened to their young people, because they, just like us, expect their children to be safe. I want to acknowledge the staff who are involved in this, their supervisors. I pray that they have the right guidance to be able to support their staff so that they’re able to serve the children and young people in their care.

Social work is a calling and those in this profession do not for one minute start the day thinking that they would be harming children. In the rare moments that—we are now receiving—this has happened, I just want to acknowledge the spirit that these staff are in when they attend work, that they go to work and that they’re fully supported. For our children and young people to feel safe and be safe in the care of Oranga Tamariki, we must also make sure that the staff providing the services feel safe and are supported.

What I’ve seen today from the chief social worker, Chappie Te Kani, the steps that he has taken, he has chosen the right people to lead this—Mike Bush, Shannon Pakura—and they have made every intention in what we’ve read in the media that they’re going to consult everybody who needs to be consulted.

I want to end my speech saying that I’m comforted in reading what the chief executive had said, that he has provided the support to ensure that the young people in care feel safe and are being provided with the right support. Again, I want to acknowledge and thank Karen Chhour for bringing this matter for urgent debate in the House, and acknowledge every young person, child and young person that’s been taken into care, has been removed from their family. I, as a person who has never had to be removed from my family, will never understand that. I want to say that I will never understand it, but we will try our best to do that.

As I started my speech, like everybody in this House and like all of New Zealand, we expect our children, young people who are in the care of the State, Oranga Tamariki, to feel safe and be safe and be supported. I look forward to the review by Mike Bush and supported by Shannon Pakura. Mālō ‘aupito.

The debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.