Oral Questions

1. to the Minister for Cyclone Recovery: What announcements has the Government made about supporting the recovery in affected regions from recent extreme weather events?

The Government is continuing to support growers, farmers, and businesses with their recovery and rebuild from the recent North Island weather events. Today, we announced the North Island Weather Events Loan Guarantee Scheme, which will provide relief to affected firms seeking commercial lending. The scheme leverages the Crown’s financial strength by carrying 80 percent of the credit risk on covered loans, allowing banks to reduce interest rates and offer more flexible terms. The Government’s underwrite will support loans of up to five years, agreed by businesses and their banks, of up to $10 million from the scheme, including refinancing of existing loans. For example, a reduction in interest rates of 0.3 percent to 1.5 percent will be the equivalent of $9,000 to $45,000 in interest cost savings per year for the average firm supported, based on a theoretical borrowing of $3 million. Over the five years the scheme is in place, these savings could total between $45,000 and $225,000 for a firm with an average amount of debt, providing meaningful relief. Further details of the implementation of the scheme will be announced in the coming weeks. We’re targeting around the end of July for the scheme to be up and running, providing time for banks to get systems in place. In the meantime, customers will be able to register their interest in looking at utilising the scheme with their bank.

💬 Rachel Boyack: What else did the announcement say about support for affected business and primary producers?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The package also includes the North Island Weather Events Primary Producer Finance Scheme. This has been created to provide access to capital for affected growers and farmers who are unable to access lending without further support. The funding will be targeted towards severely affected businesses that have a reasonable likelihood of being commercially viable but cannot currently access commercial finance. This scheme enables the Government to provide concessionary loans and equity finance for land-based primary sector producers, up to $4 million per business from a pool of up to $240 million that has been set aside. This will provide a way for businesses to fully re-engage with lenders at a later date, once we have helped them get back on their feet. In turn, it contributes towards their recovery, and to recovery within the region in which they work.

💬 Rachel Boyack: What reaction has he seen to the announcement?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The reaction is the result of working together with affected sectors to identify the most suitable schemes for viable businesses, particularly when dealing with their banks. Horticulture New Zealand said today’s announcement would enable their growers to make decisions now and “get on with the recovery and provide jobs for people in regional New Zealand.” LeaderBrand have also welcomed the package, saying that “being supported in this way to get on with the recovery is a win-win for everyone involved.”

💬 Rachel Boyack: What other work is the Government doing to support those affected by the recent weather events?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Around $2 billion of support has already been committed so far, and this includes, for example, $74 million in grants to farmers and growers in the emergency phase of the response—a $1 billion flood and cyclone recovery package as part of Budget 2023. In addition, another $6 billion in initial funding has been committed for the National Resilience Plan to focus on building back better, in particular—in the first phase—from the recent weather events. The Government is committed to working together with councils, iwi, banks, businesses, and insurers to find solutions for those in affected communities. As I have said previously, we cannot meet all the costs, particularly as we know that we will be seeing more extreme weather events like this, but what we can do is work alongside the community to find solutions, and we are striking a balance between supporting communities without taxpayers bearing all of the cost.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Acting Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. In particular, I stand by the support package for growers, farmers, and businesses affected by North Island weather events that the Minister for Cyclone Recovery has just outlined to the House. This package was developed with primary producers and will provide relief to key growers, farmers, and businesses, and help their regions continue to recover.

💬 Nicola Willis: Is she concerned that New Zealanders with a car will be paying around $15 more every time they fill up at the pump after her Government rips off the fuel tax band-aid this weekend?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We were really concerned, earlier last year, when fuel nearly reached $3 per litre. We knew that at that time we needed to put that subsidy in place, but we knew that it wasn’t going to last for ever. A little bit relieved that, of course, petrol prices have come down since then. That doesn’t necessarily provide all the relief that those families need to feel, given that there will be a slight increase this week, but what they should know is that on 1 July, many of the initiatives that we announced at Budget 2023 will come into effect. Public transport will be cheaper—or free for some—early childhood education costs will reduce for many; the co-payment of prescriptions will come off for all New Zealanders. That is our attempt, at Budget 2023, to support whānau through what is a very tough time right now.

💬 Nicola Willis: Was the Prime Minister correct in February when he said, of the fuel tax subsidy extension, “Right here and right now the increase in fuel costs is putting a significant amount of pressure on families”, and, if so, what’s changed?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yes, Mr Speaker.

💬 Nicola Willis: Why is every solution this Government has come up with to deal with the cost of living crisis nothing more than a temporary band-aid that inevitably creates more pain when the Government rips it off?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The 1 July changes that are coming into effect certainly aren’t temporary band-aids. We have said that the co-payment will be removed, and that’s not temporary. The changes and access to childcare and the support for childcare costs is not temporary. The fact that those on the sole parent benefit will now get child support pass-on is not temporary—but it is a reminder to the rest of New Zealand that those things are only guaranteed under this Government, and I think we need to make sure that the general public know that.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she stand by her statement on Tuesday that “We are in the fortunate position of our economy now doing better than what it was during pre-COVID times.”, considering New Zealanders today are facing higher inflation, higher rents, higher food prices, higher house prices, and lower growth compared to pre-COVID levels; and, if she does stand by her statement, what is it in terms of the economy that’s gotten better?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: To the first part of the question, yes.

💬 Nicola Willis: What is it that’s gotten better?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As I said, our economy is now better than what it was pre-COVID; our unemployment rate is still at near-record lows, at 3.4 percent. That doesn’t mean that New Zealanders aren’t doing it tough at the moment: everyone is, internationally, because of global inflation increases and the impact that it’s having on the cost of living. That is why we introduced the changes at Budget 2023 that we did, and we stand by those changes.

💬 Nicola Willis: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I’ve had a couple of supps; that one was very specific. What’s gotten better in terms of the economy?

💬 SPEAKER: It was addressed. Have you got another question?

💬 Nicola Willis: Yes. Why is New Zealand in recession, and Australia isn’t?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: That member needs to look at the annual figure. It was two quarters where we did see a slight recession, but what is good is that the forecast is that in the next quarter it will go up, and we will be watching that very carefully.

💬 Nicola Willis: Why does Australia have lower inflation than New Zealand, and why is the Acting Prime Minister gaslighting New Zealanders by telling them they should be relieved and grateful for this Government’s failed economic management?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We would never gaslight New Zealanders.

Question No. 3—Housing

3. to the Minister of Housing: How is the Government incorporating innovative building solutions into the public housing rebuild?

Through our public house - build programme, the Government is delivering the most public houses since the second Labour Government under Walter Nash in the 1950s. This scale means we can incorporate new technologies and systems to build faster and better-quality homes more efficiently. In a first for central government - funded public housing in Australasia, Kāinga Ora has recently delivered a passive housing development in Māngere. These 18 homes utilise airtight construction, superior insulation, and a whole-house mechanical ventilation system to deliver a healthy home that is thermally efficient and better for the environment.

💬 Paul Eagle: How will these innovative homes assist tenants to lower their household costs?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Not only are these homes incredibly warm and dry; they could see heating and cooling costs being as little as $1 per day, or, for a year, around $365. This is due to homes regulating their own temperature through smart design and the use of high-performing construction materials, meaning there is little need to run heaters during colder periods. These homes provide significant benefits to tenants and provide significant insights for sector-wide knowledge and capacity.

💬 Paul Eagle: How else is the Government supporting innovation in the residential construction sector?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Kāinga Ora has already delivered more than 400 public homes utilising off-site manufacturing, or OSM, including 150 this financial year alone, and it has contracts with eight New Zealand - based OSM manufacturers to deliver a further 300 public homes across 78 developments in the next two financial years. Off-site manufacturing has a range of benefits, including reduced construction time, less disruption to neighbours, improved health and safety, as well as improved quality, sustainability, and waste reduction.

💬 Paul Eagle: How will the Government’s support of off-site manufacturing benefit the residential construction sector?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Internationally, other countries have successfully modernised their construction sectors. In Sweden, for example, more than 80 percent of homes are now built off site. Our Government is making the most of a generational opportunity to improve the way we build to create a smarter, more efficient, and sustainable construction process and sector. Tex Edwards recently acknowledged our effort, saying, “Central government pressure has created a pathway to reduce costs and align [New Zealand’s home-building] with international best practice. Scale, OSM, standardisation and long-dated pipeline contracts will deliver a reduction in costs not just for Kāinga Ora but these will also flow through to kiwi first home buyers.”

Question No. 4—Housing

4. to the Minister of Housing: What is the Kāinga Ora universal design standards target, and when did the board adopt this target?

The Kāinga Ora board adopted the accessibility policy in September 2019. The policy set an initial target of having at least 15 percent of Kāinga Ora public homes new-builds meeting full universal design standards, with the rest meeting as many of the universal design standards as possible. What the Kāinga Ora accessibility policy seeks to achieve is homes that were briefed after 1 October 2019 and contracted on or after 1 July 2020 meeting those universal design targets.

💬 Jan Logie: Why, then, did the Minister say in the Social Services Committee on 21 June that the target was only put in place in 2021?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Because the policy was passed in 2019 with an implementation date for delivery from 2021. As we talked about at the select committee hearing, there is a lag between a policy being set and the homes that are contracted. It is only the homes that are contracted post 1 July 2020 that will see delivery through into 2021.

💬 Jan Logie: Is it true, as reported by Stuff on 15 March, that Kāinga Ora reached 9 percent universal design for new-build public housing, which is actually only 1.5 percent of all new-build public housing, and, if so, why have they failed to meet their own targets?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We are on track to deliver the targets for this financial year. There were some delays, as the member will know, some COVID-related construction delays, that meant that there was more in the pipeline that were contracted prior to those dates. What we are seeing, though, are some examples of some developments that are coming through that have incredibly high standards of the universal design targets—for example, Greys Avenue: 60 percent of the new apartments will reach that. In Ēpuni, where the Prime Minister and I visited last week a 32-unit development, 50 percent of those units have been built to universal design standards. And in Highbury Triangle, in Auckland, where there are 192 units specifically designed for older people, all of those are accessible properties with wheelchair and mobility scooter ramps built to an incredibly high standard. So what we can see is that properties that are contracted later and being delivered now are far exceeding that target.

💬 Jan Logie: Does she stand by her comment, “I’m not accepting the missed targets.”, when data from Kāinga Ora’s dashboard states that they built 1,266 homes while the policy was taking effect, with only 70 houses being built to full universal design by the end of 2022, nowhere near the 15 percent target?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I’ve addressed the question that the member’s just put, in previous answers. The member needs to look at when those projects were contracted. The reality is that it takes several years in terms of design, so delivery that you’re going to see post that, many of those homes would have been contracted pre the 2020 date.

💬 Jan Logie: Then why was the target set to be achieved between August 2021 and July 2022? That’s what’s in the policy.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: As we’ve also talked about in this House on multiple occasions, clearly there was a delay in construction throughout 2020 and 2021. In fact, very few homes could be constructed while the country was in lockdown. We have already acknowledged that that did have a delay in meeting those targets, as it did with construction targets more generally.

Question No. 5—Health

5. to the Minister of Health: What changes has the Government made to the Carer Support subsidy?

From 1 July, Te Whatu Ora will increase the daily rate of subsidy paid to carers in the home. It will also widen how the subsidy can be used to support the work of the main carer. Under the changes, the daily rate of the carer support subsidy lifts from $64.50 in some regions to a minimum of $80 nationwide.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So how will this improve access to care?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: This will improve access to care options, such as day programmes for respite for those in our community who cannot afford to privately top up the current daily allocation of carer support. Increasing the subsidy will also enable more people to be cared for in their communities and, therefore, reduce unnecessary hospital admissions among some of the most vulnerable members of our community. It also helps relieve pressure on the health system.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: How many people will be positively impacted by the change?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: This change is expected to help more than 14,000 existing carers. Full-time carers or those looking after someone for four hours or more a day will be able to use the subsidy to take a break from their stressful work, reducing the risk of carer stress and burnout. Previously, carers could only claim one day’s worth of their annual allocation of subsidy at a time. Now they will be able to claim for multiple days’ worth at once in order to take a break. They will also be able to use the subsidy to compensate others living in the same household to provide respite or an external respite service.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: Why has this change been made?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Previously, 14 of the 20 districts paid $64.50 as the minimum support rate. That has now been lifted by a minimum of $15.50 to reduce inequities across the country. The 1 July change marks a move away from the inconsistency of multiple rates across the country, correcting inconsistencies in funding between Te Whatu Ora and other agencies as well, and shows the benefit of having one agency running the health system instead of 20 district health boards. We are slowly ending the postcode lottery for care.

Question No. 6—Local Government

6. to the Minister of Local Government: Does he stand by all decisions made around the Government’s water services reform programme in 2023?

on behalf of the Minister of Local Government: On behalf of the Minister, yes, in the context in which they were made.

💬 Chris Bishop: Has Cabinet agreed to the extra transition funds required as part of the move from four entities to 10, as mentioned in the regulatory impact statement on the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill, estimated at at least a billion dollars?

Cabinet has indeed agreed to that process. I would note in the regulatory impact statement the member refers to, in a number of cases, while initial Crown funding is required, it will be recovered from the water services entities when they are operational.

💬 Chris Bishop: Did the Government appropriate the extra transition funds required in Budget 2023, and, if so, what appropriation or appropriations is the money contained in?

On behalf of the Minister, appropriations already exist for the overall reform programme. When new appropriations are required, they occur when those decisions are made.

💬 Chris Bishop: So in relation to the extra billion dollars—at least—required, is that money appropriated for in previous Budgets, including the latest one?

It’s actually the same answer I’ve just given to the member: sometimes when the Government carries a cost for a period of time before that is transferred across, that can be reflected in the Government accounts; other times it doesn’t need to be because that cost will be paid back within the time that the Government accounts allow for.

💬 Nicola Willis: Dodgy books.

💬 Chris Bishop: Has he talked to his officials—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! We’ll hear this in silence.

💬 Chris Bishop: All good?

💬 SPEAKER: Questions are asked in silence. Chris Bishop.

💬 Hon Andrew Little: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The deputy leader of the National Party made a statement just now by way of interjection that reflected on the integrity of the Minister of Finance in a way that I would submit is contrary to the Standing Orders and the good order of the House.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Mr Speaker, that may have been the implication taken by Minister Little, but there was no reference to any individual and therefore no reflection on that person.

💬 SPEAKER: I will make this ruling. There has been an increase of interjections, badly timed interjections, during question time, when questions, in particular, are being asked. I would ask every member to stop doing that. I did hear the comment—timing wasn’t perfect, but I’m loath to rule it as being personally directed at a member. However, the member ought to be careful.

💬 Chris Bishop: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Has he talked to his officials about the 32 unauthorised changes made to the Water Services Legislation Bill by Department of Internal Affairs officials that in some cases went directly against the instructions of the Finance and Expenditure Committee, and, if so, what did he say?

On behalf of the Minister, the Minister speaks regularly with the officials who are responsible for this work. In terms of that specific matter, we’ll have to get back to the member, and I’m sure the Minister will do that.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why has Cabinet not altered the position under the three waters reform programme where it is compulsory for a water services entity to respond to a Te Mana o te Wai statement issued by relevant mana whenua, but not compulsory for the water services entity to respond to a community priority statement?

Those are two distinct processes, and I’m sure the member will be well aware that Te Mana o te Wai statements have been around since I think about 2014. The National Party included them within the resource management amendment reforms. They find their basis in the fact that, among other places, the Supreme Court agreed that there are rights and interests of Māori in water, and, in fact, the Rt Hon Bill English made that statement at the Supreme Court.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why is it the Government position that the only way to give effect to legitimate Māori rights and interests in water is to privilege only mana whenua with the ability to issue directive and prescriptive statements to new water infrastructure bodies?

I completely reject the assertions in the member’s question. Te Mana o te Wai has been part of the resource management framework in New Zealand for many, many years. It is reflective of Māori rights and interests in water, which, as I say, previously, the National Party has acknowledged has been the case. Clearly, Bill English’s words no longer mean anything to the National Party.

Question No. 7—Statistics

7. to the Minister of Statistics: Does she have confidence that Stats New Zealand will achieve the 90 percent completion rate target for the New Zealand Census 2023, and is she “absolutely” willing to resign as Minister if this target isn’t met by 5 pm tomorrow?

I am absolutely confident that Tatauranga Aotearoa Statistics New Zealand will deliver an excellent census that will give Government agencies, city and district councils, iwi and hapū, and community groups and businesses good information to plan for the future. The collection period for the census ends at 5 p.m. tomorrow. However, the census process is continuing as returns are gathered, processed, and checked. The completion rate for the census will not be known until towards the end of 2024, after the postenumeration survey is completed and evaluated.

💬 Damien Smith: Does she accept that she has ultimate responsibility for the census failing to meet its target completion rate, and, if the Minister doesn’t, who has the ultimate responsibility?

💬 Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: I reject the use of the word “failing” there. The census has in fact succeeded. We are sitting on an 89 percent return rate at the moment, and, in fact, there has been particular success with increasing the rate of return from our Māori and Pasifika populations.

💬 Nicole McKee: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question that was asked of the Minister was about accepting responsibility, and, if not the Minister, then who. She addressed a word that was said in the question without actually addressing the question.

💬 SPEAKER: And that would probably be addressed that way if the Minister chooses to do so. The way to avoid it is to not use such words. Are there further supplementaries?

💬 Damien Smith: How does she measure the effectiveness of spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayers’ dollars on vouchers for sports games and fast food for people who did not complete the census on time, when she doesn’t know the number of people who filled out the census in return for these vouchers?

💬 Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: It is impossible to know exactly how many people filled out their census forms at events—community events, engagement events, and the like—where people were drawn into events in order to complete their census. The reason that it’s impossible, though, is it’s not just the vouchers, not just the events, but it’s the extended reach of that, beyond that, that encouraged people, that made them aware of the census and, therefore, encouraged them to complete their forms.

💬 Damien Smith: How did she spend $300 million on the census and get such a poor result, and is it not a reflection of the lack of trust New Zealanders have in this Government?

💬 Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: I again reject the particular word. It was not a poor result. We have had an excellent result from the census so far, where we’ve gotten an 89 percent return rate. We’ve gotten increased return rates for Māori and Pasifika. And by the time those return rates are combined with administrative data, we will get an excellent coverage rate of 97 to 98 percent. We’ve got a good census.

Question No. 8—Māori Development

8. to the Minister for Māori Development: What recent announcements has the Government made about support for owners of whenua Māori in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay?

I’ve just announced $30 million of funding to help—

💬 Hon Member: How much?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: —$30 million of funding to help whenua Māori owners in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay with the clean-up of sediment and debris on their whenua. The Minister of Forestry and I have also announced that $2 million of the $10.15 million woody debris fund announced as part of Budget 2023 has been allocated specifically to manage woody debris in catchments on whenua Māori. This funding recognises hapori Māori, community Māori, are still dealing with the aftermath of the cyclone. The Government is committed to continue to support the recovery of communities affected by the cyclone.

💬 Arena Williams: How will this funding benefit owners of whenua Māori in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Owners of whenua Māori can apply to Te Puni Kōkiri, which is really good because they can get direct access for their grants to help clean up sediment and debris on their whenua. This helps owners make their own decisions about how to manage the clean-up. Owners of whenua Māori who have completed or started their clean up can also apply for grants. We recognise that iwi and hapori Māori moved quickly after the cyclone to get started on the clean-up. This funding may be able to help them with those costs. The $2 million from the woody debris fund will also be available as grants to clean up woody debris in catchments on whenua Māori.

💬 Arena Williams: When will this funding be available?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Funding will be available from 1 July 2023. Māori land owners in Te Tairāwhiti and the Hawke’s Bay can contact the Whenua Māori service in Te Puni Kōkiri for more information and advice about how to apply.

💬 Arena Williams: What other assistance is being made available to help clean up debris and sediment?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Last month, my colleagues the Minister of Local Government and the Associate Minister for Cyclone Recovery announced funding of $102 million to help councils process and dispose of debris and to manage sediment on council land. They also announced $70 million to assist commercial properties with their clean-up. Some owners of whenua Māori will meet the criteria for commercial funding. Te Puni Kōkiri is supporting landowners who choose this route through the application process.

💬 Hon Meka Whaitiri: Why has it taken nearly five months to get targeted funding to remove silt from whenua Māori in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: It’s been a tough process for this Government, it’s been a tough process for this country, but we’re committed to looking after not just our own people but all the people in the different communities, and I’m proud of the response from this Government.

💬 Hon Meka Whaitiri: Will he support Te Paati Māori’s policy of $100 million for a dedicated clean-up fund for tangata whenua; if not, why not?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I will support any fund in terms of supporting our people if it’s thought through well, which clearly that view has not been.

Question No. 9—Corrections

9. to the Minister of Corrections: Does he agree with the reported statement of the Chief Ombudsman following his report initiated after the Waikeria Prison riot, “Corrections was being defensive, risk averse and believed it had made changes when there was no evidence of it on the ground”; if not, why not?

I think it’s important to remember that prisons aren’t an ordinary work environment. We need to be realistic about the serious challenges and risks front-line staff are managing every day. Any change needs to be made with the safety of staff and prisoners front of mind. I agree that it can take time in an organisation as large as this for changes to be made from top to bottom, and I’ve expressed that I think progress on recommendations on the ground should be faster. Safety and the humane treatment of prisoners are not mutually exclusive, which is why Corrections has acknowledged that it can do more, and that is why they have accepted all of the Ombudsman’s recommendations made of them, which I’m supportive of.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Does the Chief Ombudsman’s concern about a divide between senior leadership and the front line at Corrections include him?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I absolutely back our staff on the front line and acknowledge the challenging work that they do. I think the reality is that with a large operational agency, there’s always a challenge to face in how the central leadership and the front-line staff are linked.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: How can Kiwis have any confidence in his leadership of Corrections when the Chief Ombudsman says that Corrections accepted most of the recommendations yet the riots occurred?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: First of all, I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate on what would’ve changed the behaviour of the rioters. Ultimately, it was unacceptable and endangered staff, other prisoners, and themselves. But a number of changes were made immediately as a result of that Ombudsman’s report in 2020. There was an ongoing programme of maintenance of cells. The yards were being checked daily for damage. There was increased resourcing in the property area. There was development of consistent streamlined procedures for ordering and managing prisoners’ clothing. They were providing prisoners with additional food and additional food to prisoners with their evening meals. So there were a number of changes that were made as a result of the August 2020 report, but, ultimately, it’s pointless speculating on what might have changed the behaviour of those rioters.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Why after six years of his leadership is the Chief Ombudsman reporting that because Corrections have been too slow to act, the fair treatment and rights of prisoners have unfortunately been the collateral damage?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I disagree with much of that, but I have expressed that I think the recommendations made by the Ombudsman should’ve been implemented faster. I’ve continuously expressed that to the leadership of Corrections.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: What does he say to the Chief Ombudsman, who said, “I was concerned to find that people I interviewed during the course of my investigation consistently described a divided organisation and a pattern of disconnection at all levels, mainly between front-line prison staff and head office.”?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I have made my expectations clear, but, like I say, with an organisation as large as Corrections, it is possible that there is a gap between those in head office and those working on the front line. But I also have to say that despite the fact that I would like the pace of change to be quicker, there has still been a large number of changes made. In fact, there are six organisations that have oversight of Corrections, and since October 2017 there have been almost 3,000 recommendations made, of which over 80 percent have been completed.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: How embarrassing is it for the Minister that the Corrections union is presenting pens to guests inscribed with “Where’s Kelvin?”?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: How embarrassing is it for the spokesperson for the Opposition that in all the time that he’s been the spokesperson, this is the first question he’s asked me, and, secondly, where was he at Estimates?

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table this pen from the Corrections Association of New Zealand, inscribed “Where’s Kelvin?”

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no, no, I don’t need that.

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Well, I just wanted to make the point—

💬 SPEAKER: Well, no, no, no—no, sit down. Anything with writing on it can be tabled with the agreement of the House. The member needs to tell me when it was published.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Mr Speaker, all I can tell you is that it’s not readily available to the public; it’s only given to people that front up to the Corrections union.

💬 SPEAKER: OK, well, I hope we’re not starting a new trend of tabling all kinds and all manner of things. However, I’ll put the leave. Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? No.

Leave received to table object.

Question No. 10—Local Government

10. to the Minister of Local Government: Does he intend that in the Water Services Entities Amendment Bill, the powers awarded to the wider population through community priority statements are less than those awarded to local Māori through Te Mana o te Wai statements, and does he think assigning input on water management on the basis of iwi affiliation will help provide effective and efficient water services?

on behalf of the Minister of Local Government: On behalf of the Minister, the provision of effective and efficient water services continues to be the responsibility of the entity board, which is appointed on expertise, skills, and experience alone. Community priority statements add another tool for communities to have a say on the long-term direction of their water services entity. They are distinct from Te Mana o te Wai statements, which acknowledge the special rights and interests of Māori in water. These rights were recognised by the Supreme Court and previous Governments on the basis that Te Mana o te Wai statements extend well beyond the activities of just water services entities, give effect to Treaty settlements, are already integrated into our planning system, and do give effect to a Supreme Court decision. As the member is aware, the amendment bill strengthens the voice of the wider population, as he calls it, in the water services entities by aligning them to regional communities of interest and ensuring every district is represented on a regional representative group.

💬 Simon Court: Can the Minister explain how having Te Mana o te Wai protect the mauri of the wai will help provide effective and efficient water services when, according to the Ministry for the Environment, mauri is not defined; it is a Te ao Māori concept that speaks both to the life energy that flows through all things and the interconnectedness of all things?

On behalf of the Minister, Te Mana o Te Wai statements reflect the interests and rights of Māori in water that have been known about and exercised by Governments since 2013. Any member of this House who believes that we can have effective and efficient water services bodies without making sure that those rights and interests are recognised is dreaming.

💬 Simon Court: Is the Minister confident that recommendations made through Te Mana o te Wai statements will improve the efficiency and affordability of water services, and how would he expect those to be prioritised in circumstances where Te Mana o Te Wai statements are contrary to those aims?

On behalf of the Minister, as I said in my primary answer, the provision of effective and efficient water services continues to be the responsibility of the entity board which is appointed on expertise, skills, and experience. They will take into account a range of matters, including Te Mana o Te Wai statements.

💬 Simon Court: Supplementary—

💬 SPEAKER: No, no more supplementaries.

Question No. 11—Housing (Māori Housing)

11. to the Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing): E hia ngā kāinga hou kua whakaritea ki te hōtaka Whai Kāinga Oranga, ā, tokohia ngā whānau kua hūnuku atu ki aua kāinga mā te hōtaka rā?

[How many new homes have been contracted through the Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga programme, and how many whānau Māori have moved into homes completed through the programme?]

That’s a beautiful question. I want to thank that member for that question, because Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga has been one of the great successes of this Government. Māori housing stands out. I want to thank Minister Megan Woods for all her support. Bringing together Te Puni Kōkiri and the ministry of housing has seen a real change, and we’ve got people all around the country flourishing. I want to thank that member for this opportunity to talk about this, because we launched Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga in 2021 and we made it clear that that was a four-year programme to build 1,000 homes for whānau Māori by June 2025. I’m proud to inform that member, who’s been a great supporter—him and his family and his wife. They’ve been great supporters of Māori housing and Māori development; I really think he’s been a terrific supporter, actually. I’m proud to inform that member that we’re well on track to deliver on this commitment. To date, we’ve contracted 1,003 homes, with a further 15 homes being approved and they’re in the contracting process, bringing the total approval to 1,018. In response to the second part of the question, I want everyone to understand this because the member was speaking Māori and quite rightly so. I applaud him for that. But he was asking about how many whānau have moved in: 62 at this stage.

💬 Tama Potaka: He aha te kaute pūtea mō te kaupapa iwi prototypes i raro i te hōtaka Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga?

[What is the Budget allocation for the iwi prototypes initiative under the Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga programme?]

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of the pūtea that has been approved so far, in the 2023 Budget we put aside $200 million additional but $150 million specifically for Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga so that we could support the pūtea that was put aside in 2021, which was $700 million. The National Government never put aside one cent—they never put aside one cent in terms of by Māori, for Māori programmes. Again, I want to thank ourselves for this brilliant strategy—in particular, Minister Megan Woods, Minister Grant Robertson, Minister Kelvin Davis, who have started this innovative and brilliant, brilliant programme that we’ve never ever seen before from any other Government in history. As well as that, there’s incredible Māori providers that that member has supported. We’ve got Toitu Tairawhiti with Willie Te Aho on the East Coast. We’ve got Ka Uruora with Jamie—

💬 SPEAKER: Can I ask the Minister to wind up his speech.

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Can I—

💬 SPEAKER: You’ve answered.

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: OK.

💬 Tama Potaka: E hia ngā kāinga hou kua oti te hangā ake i tō te kaupapa iwi prototypes, ā, e mākona ana tō ngākau i tērā nama?

[How many new homes have been built under the iwi prototypes initiative, and is that satisfactory to you?]

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Kei te harikoa taku ngākau i tēnei wā, e hoa, harikoa. Kei te tino whakahīhī mātou, nā te mea he tino rawe tā mātou rautaki e pā ana ki te hanga whare. E mihi ana ki te Minita, ki a Megan Woods mō tana kaha ki te kōkiri i tēnei kaupapa me te Minita mō te pūtea, Grant Robertson me Kelvin Davis. Kei te tino whakahīhī tō mātou kāhui Māori. E mihi ana ki a koe, e hoa mō tō tautoko ki a mātou i ngā wā katoa. Kia ora.

[My heart is happy at this point, my friend. We are very proud because our strategy for building houses is a good one. I acknowledge the Minister Megan Woods for her hard work in leading this initiative, and to the finance Minister, Grant Robertson, and Kelvin Davis. Our Māori caucus is very proud. I acknowledge you, my friend, for your unwavering support. Thank you.]

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was a great reply, and congratulated just about everybody on the Labour front bench, but it didn’t answer the question of how many have been completed.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, that’s correct. It wasn’t. Do you want to ask it again?

💬 Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Supplementary.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no, no. I’m going to give Tama Potaka the opportunity to ask the question again.

💬 Tama Potaka: Ka pai.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! In silence.

💬 Tama Potaka: E hia kē ngā kāinga hou kua oti te hangā ake i tō te kaupapa iwi prototypes, ā, e mākona ana tō ngākau i te nama rā?

[How many new houses have been built as a result of the iwi prototypes initiative, and are you satisfied with that number?]

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of the numbers, in terms of the iwi prototypes, and in terms of where we’re working in terms of Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga, I’ll go through the numbers for everyone. I want to go through all the numbers: 517 of 1,018 homes have been approved or contracted or have resource consent; 246 have commenced build; and 62 homes have been built and received code completion—62 homes. Now, you can rubbish that, but we started at the end of 2021. We’ve made a start. There was no strategy from Tama Potaka’s National Party and I know that’s why he’s asking the question—to embarrass his colleagues—and I thank you for the question.

💬 Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Can the Minister confirm that by partnering with iwi, Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga enables the Government to increase housing options on whenua Māori or by leveraging the Māori asset base?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Absolutely. The reality is that the funding provided by Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga is a grant and that funding can be used by those Māori housing providers to either employ local Māori directly or support other local Māori businesses. The beauty about the strategy is it’s not just about a house. It’s just not about a kāinga. It’s about a whole new lifestyle. We bring in employment around these people. We also get them to learn their whakapapa, to learn a bit of reo. It’s a whole whānau-type approach and it makes us very, very proud as a Government to produce this, and I know Tama Potaka’s proud of us too.

💬 Tama Potaka: Kei a wai te whakautu tika? Kei a koe i whāki mai ai e ono tekau mā rua ngā whare hou kua hangā i tēnei pūtea. Kei te Minita Matua rānei, a Megan Woods, i whakautu mai ai i tērā wiki i te komiti social services, tata ki te kotahi rau ngā whare hou kua hangaia mai.

[Who has the correct answer? According to what you said, 62 new houses were built using this funding. According to the Minister Megan Woods, she answered last week in the Social Services and Community Committee that nearly 100 new houses were built.]

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: E hoa, ehara nōku te hē, e hoa. E hoa, ehara nōku te hē. Kōrero ki a Megan Woods.

[My friend, it’s not my fault, my friend. My friend, it’s not my fault. Talk to Megan Woods.]

Ki ahau [to me] she was pretty close—not too far off a hundred.

💬 Tama Potaka: E hia ngā kāinga hou kua hangaia atu ki Ihumātao?

[How many new houses have been built at Ihumātao?]

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Ihumātao was a different situation. I have to say I’m proud of the work that has gone on down there, but we have five years—we have five years to produce a result and now we’re about 18 months into this so far. It’s not just about houses; it’s about whānau, it’s about communities, it’s about working through, and we came up with an innovative strategy. And do you know what that strategy was? Work with the community, work with the people, and work with Tama Potaka’s relations, and we have done a wonderful job.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Another very flowery response but the question was very direct: how many had been built?

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah, I think it was addressed.

Question No. 12—Commerce and Consumer Affairs

12. to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What is the Government doing to support the transition to a low-emissions, climate-resilient future for businesses?

The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) has released new guidance for large entities preparing to make climaterelated disclosures for the first time. These new disclosures are a big stride forward for the climate in three ways: first, they encourage entities to consider the short-, medium-, and long-term risks and opportunities that climate change presents to their businesses; second, it provides the format for a business to demonstrate publicly what its approach to these risks and opportunities is; third, they enable investors and other stakeholders to assess the merits of their approach to climate risks and opportunities that the business has taken. The Government is radically improving the consistency and transparency of business information on climate change, and I commend the FMA for their work.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: What is the purpose of the climate standards?

💬 Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: The overall aim of the Aotearoa New Zealand Climate Standards framework is supporting the allocation of capital towards activities that are consistent with a transition to a low-emissions, climate-resilient future. By entities systematically disclosing reliable information about climate risk and opportunities, the market will be able to make more informed choices about where to invest capital. That is a very good thing.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: How does the new guidance help businesses meet their reporting requirements?

💬 Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Businesses need to know what records they should be keeping in order to meet these new standards, and the FMA have published draft guidance on this. Businesses can choose to work through the standards themselves, or they may wish to engage an external provider to help them. The FMA has put out an information sheet on what businesses should consider and what questions they might ask before engaging an outside party for this work. Finally, the FMA has published its plan for monitoring, as they move from building the system to operating it.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: What are the next steps in the plan for climate reporting?

💬 Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Large businesses that are required to report against climate standards are now preparing to do so, with the guidance of the FMA, and I thank them for that work. The FMA’s approach going forward will be pragmatic, focused on outcomes, and will include education to support businesses’ successful transition to the new reporting standards. We all know that we need a low-emission, climate-resilient future, and this Government is making progress to make sure that happens.