Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The construction sector is continuing to grow. Statistics New Zealand reported that the volume of building activity rose 3.8 percent in the September quarter. Residential construction rose 3.1 percent, while industrial and commercial building activity increased 4.9 percent. The result was above economists’ expectations, and has led them to revise upwards their forecast for GDP in the September quarter. The economy is expected to grow solidly in the September quarter, if not as strong as in the previous June period when the economy expanded 1.7 percent. We know that 2023 is going to be a difficult year for the global economy and that this will affect New Zealand’s prospects, but New Zealand finds itself in a strong starting position, with unemployment near record lows, exports growing, and tourists returning in greater numbers.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Momentum in the economy is expected to continue into the December quarter, though activity has shown signs of slowing. Statistics New Zealand report that the New Zealand activity index, a composite index of activity across the economy, rose 3.1 percent in October, compared to the same period a year ago. Activity indicators were up in electronic card transaction activity, grid demand, and job advertisements, together with a reduction in job seeker numbers. Both the activity outlook and the BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index fell.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on net migration, and how is it impacting on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Statistics New Zealand reported that there was a net gain of 3,300 people arriving in October, with an estimated 11,400 arrivals, and 8,100 departures. Our immigration reset is working and attracting the overseas workers with the skills that businesses require to rebuild the economy. Yesterday’s announcement to expand the Green List will further support businesses to recruit internationally to fill the shortages we have.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Global factory output fell widely in November. In the United States, its manufacturing Purchasing Managers’ Index, or PMI, fell to 49, below the 50 level that marks growth in activity. In Europe, its manufacturing PMI stood at 46.4, while in the UK and China, manufacturing activity shrank for a fourth month in a row. The deteriorating global economy is affecting New Zealand’s prospects as we head into next year. We’ll be facing a period of high inflation, which is then forecast to be followed by a shallow recession. New Zealand does find itself well positioned to deal with what the world throws at us, with the Government’s books in good shape and our debt levels among the lowest in the world. We will continue to carefully and responsibly prioritise our spending without unnecessarily adding to inflation. This is a balanced approach that gives us choices and flexibility to respond and support New Zealanders as the global environment changes.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, particularly this Government’s continued action to support businesses to recruit new workers internationally to fill critical skills shortages. The whole world is experiencing labour shortages. We have approved over 94,000 job positions for international recruitment. We’ve granted over 40,000 working holiday visas. We’ve reopened the Pacific Access category and Samoa quota. We’ve delivered the largest increase in a decade to the Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme, and we’ve resumed the skilled migrant category and parent category, to strengthen our international offering. But there is more that we can do. That is why we have expanded the Green List settings to include more professions in our healthcare, education, and construction sectors, but, as you can see, there is a global workforce shortage. New Zealand continues to do all it can to remain competitive.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Did Minister Mahuta inform her about the proposed three waters entrenchment Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) after she received advice about it in October, and, if not, why is she still a Minister?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I’ve said in this House and publicly many times, the SOP that was passed through the committee stage was tabled after caucus. Also, this is an issue that we ensured was fixed before the final bill passed. We’ve acknowledged it was a mistake.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why is Nanaia Mahuta still a Minister?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because Nanaia Mahuta is an excellent Minister, and I will stand by that Minister for the work that she does on our behalf on the world stage, for the work that she does at home, fixing infrastructure that Governments time and time again ignored we had a massive deficit in. It has been a contributing factor to the housing crisis we have. It is one of the reasons that you cannot swim in Auckland beaches right now and why we have boil water notices in towns up and down this country. Minister Mahuta finally stood up and did something about it, and I stand firm with her.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is she honestly saying that she considers a Minister holding up a Whittaker’s chocolate bar for social media to be a breach of the Cabinet Manual, but yet a Minister deliberately flouting a clear Cabinet decision on entrenchment is not?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member’s last past of the question is incorrect; the Minister did not.

💬 Christopher Luxon: How does she think Kiwis who have spent months on surgical wait-lists because of her inability to admit her mistakes are going to feel now that, seven months later, she has suddenly realised New Zealand has a nursing shortage?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have had 2,900 nurses come into this country during the pandemic. We have had, this year, 4,500 internationally trained nurses—4,500 internationally trained nurses—register with the Nursing Council. We’ve had 900 in November alone—record numbers. The change we made yesterday is about maintaining our competitive edge and attracting health workers whilst many other countries experience a similar shortage, and I stand by that.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why couldn’t she just admit she got it wrong and offer nurses immediate residency seven months ago, as National and the whole health sector was calling for?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member continually mischaracterises what we did in the first place, which was to fast-track nurses from the position they had under National to residency, and it demonstrates the difference it made with the record numbers that we had seeking registration with the Nursing Council. We want to stay one step ahead of a globally competitive environment, and that’s why we made the changes we have.

💬 Hon Michael Wood: Does the Prime Minister agree with public comments that have been recently made that New Zealand’s borders should have been fully opened in November last year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Sorry, could you just repeat the question.

💬 Hon Michael Wood: Does the Prime Minister agree with public comments recently made that the Government should have fully reopened the borders in November of last year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I stand by every decision that we have made, including the member’s decisions on bringing back in and expediting the visa processing for those where we’ve had shortages. I also stand by the member’s immigration rebalance work, which has meant we are recruiting for 90,000 places right now. I also stand by Minister Little’s work to improve nurses’ pay, because it’s not just about visas; it’s also about attracting people with the working conditions. I stand by this Government’s work on those shortages.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Oh, goodness. She said she’s finally planning to tell her Ministers to focus and start prioritising. Does that mean that she’s also now planning to U-turn on the TVNZ-RNZ merger, her farm emissions overreach, and the jobs tax?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I stand by that statement. I’ve asked members to go away and, over summer, make sure that in 2023, we continue to focus on the economy, on supporting New Zealanders through what will be a difficult time, through an economically volatile period—just in the same way that we have already reduced fuel at the pump, the cost of living payment, and the increase in the family tax credit. All of this, we know, has already made a difference to low and middle income earners; compare that with the one idea the National Party has had, which they may or may not have reversed.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Isn’t it the case that she’s totally lost control of her Cabinet, she cannot admit when she’s wrong, and she’s now just desperately cancelling her agenda in response to bad polls and bad press?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No.

Question No. 3—Housing

3. to the Minister of Housing: What actions has the Government taken to achieve better housing outcomes for the people of Rotorua?

On Friday, we signed the Rotorua Housing accord with Rotorua Lakes Council and Te Arawa iwi. The accord renews the commitment by all parties to work collaboratively on addressing Rotorua’s chronic housing shortage and improve emergency housing. The accord builds on the significant progress already made as of November 2022, including that the number of motels used for emergency housing has fallen by 20 since November 2021, and we plan to have only three mixed-use motels left by Christmas. The number of households in emergency housing was 372 households in December 2021, and that has now fallen to 168 households as at November 2022. We’ve brought on 230 public housing places since 2017, and we are seeing increasing private developments, with 390 new building consents issued in the year to October 2022, compared to 64 consents in the year to June 2014.

Tāmati Coffey: What does the accord seek to achieve?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The accord signifies the strong, ongoing commitment for central government, local government, and iwi to build a better housing future for Rotorua. Rotorua’s population increased by over 9,000 people after 2013, but only 1,200 private homes were built. Rotorua also suffered a net loss of 42 public homes under the last Government. Specifically, the accord seeks to reduce the reliance on emergency housing, it seeks to provide better support and care for people in emergency housing, and, importantly, increase housing supply to ensure more Rotorua people have access to safe, dry, warm, permanent homes.

Tāmati Coffey: How does the accord complement work already under way in Rotorua?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In mid-2021, through the Rotorua Housing Taskforce, we established Te Pokapū, the Rotorua Housing Hub. We contacted emergency accommodation for families and whānau with children and provided additional wraparound social support services. We’ve also invested in housing and infrastructure, including around 330 public and transitional homes under construction or in planning by Kāinga Ora community housing providers and iwi and Māori, and over $139 million for transport and water infrastructure through the Infrastructure Acceleration Fund and shovel-ready funding.

Tāmati Coffey: What feedback has she heard about the accord?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Rotorua mayor Tania Tapsell says the accord responds to the urgent need to end mixed-use tourism accommodation and deliver better housing solutions for those in need. Mayor Tapsell also said the accord was a huge win for us here in Rotorua and we will see visible changes within a year. Rawiri Waru, the chairman of Te Arawa working party, responding to the emergency housing, said, “We agree that housing development, which is environmentally friendly and sustainable, is desperately needed in Rotorua. … [The] accord recognises our collaborative duty to address the chronic housing crisis and tackle the many issues that have emerged from it.”

Question No. 4—Prime Minister

4. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and policies?

Yes. I was especially delighted to see the support on the forecourt today from across the House for our world champion Black Ferns, and I stand by the support that we as a Government have provided this and other major women’s sporting events—2023 will be a very big year.

💬 David Seymour: When will she show some leadership and sack Nanaia Mahuta?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously, as I’ve already said in this House, I have no such intention.

💬 David Seymour: How will New Zealand become a more peaceful and united country from the introduction of a law that allows people to be fined or jailed for “Insulting a religion”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As we have debated and discussed in this House many times before, we already have provision in our Human Rights Act to prevent incitement based on ethnicity or race. What we have simply done is add the word “religion”. If the member has a fundamental issue with the human rights legislation as it stands, that’s a matter for the member. Obviously, on this side of the House, we support the existing legislation but believe it should be extended.

💬 David Seymour: So is the Prime Minister’s position that this addition of religion to the Human Rights Act will make no difference, or that it will actually allow people to be prosecuted for insulting religions?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No. My argument is not that it will make no difference; my argument is that we already have an existing framework in which the legal parameters can already be tested around issues like, for instance, race, and we have added now the additional word of “religion”. That is based, of course, on the experience that we’ve had in New Zealand—the sad experience we’ve had in New Zealand—and the recommendation of the royal commission. The royal commission did make suggestion that some of those definitions, more broadly, should be altered. A consultation document was put out on that. It received a lot of feedback. Then, we’ve asked the Law Commission to support wider work because our aspiration remains to get cross-party consensus.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her various statements blaming foreign factors for inflation when home-grown food just increased 10.7 percent year on year in New Zealand according to Stats New Zealand yesterday?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her various statements that other countries have it worse, when a net 15,000 New Zealanders chose to vote with their feet and move to other countries in the year to November?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member has already heard me talk about the net positive growth we’ve had when it comes to migration. I’ve not for a moment diminished the experience that New Zealanders are having as a result of inflation. What I have done is put into context the fact that we are not having that experience alone, and, relative to other countries, our experience is not as significant—we’re in the lower half of the 38 OECD nations.

💬 David Seymour: How can the Prime Minister say that her immigration policy is working when more people are leaving than coming?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because the member is incorrect. As I already said in the House, if you look at the data, monthly migrants arriving are higher than departures, and this has been the trend over the past few months. The member can simply look at the numbers.

💬 David Seymour: Does she realise New Zealanders having to tighten their belts in a cost of living crisis are getting increasingly angry when they see her Government increase its own expenditure by $40 billion on pre-COVID levels, even next year and the year after that?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member, again, is incorrect. Our spending as a reflection of a percentage of GDP has decreased from 34 percent down to 31 percent, where, traditionally, you tend to see those numbers trend across different Governments. We absolutely acknowledge the times that we are in, and we are acting accordingly.

💬 David Seymour: So if this Government inherited spending at around 28 percent of GDP and will soon settle at 31 percent, has this Government increased spending as a percentage of GDP or decreased it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I said, it brings us back broadly into line with the trends that we have seen, with, of course, the interruption—not insignificant—of a one-in-100-year pandemic, where most members in this House supported the additional expenditure that was put in place by this Government to support business. It’s one of the reasons we have one of the lowest unemployment rates that we have seen, at 3.3 percent, and it is one of the reasons we have such low unemployment for Māori, for Pacific, and for women, and we stand by that record.

💬 David Seymour: Why has her Government convicted only three parents in five years for kids not attending school, when there are thousands of unexplained absences from New Zealand schools every day?

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Government doesn’t convict anybody.

💬 SPEAKER: That’s a fair point. The member should reword his question.

💬 David Seymour: Why have there been only three convictions of parents for students not attending school in the period of this Government, when there are thousands of kids absent from school unexplained every day?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The first point I would make is my recollection of the statistics; that is roughly the rate of conviction that you will have seen over a number of years, not just under this Government. It has not been a tool that is frequently used, and that, in part, is because of its level of effectiveness. The second point I’d make is that—putting aside the fact that during COVID, of course, those were abnormal years—I don’t believe anyone in this House would think that it would make much sense to make judgments around absence when we had the highest levels of flu season and a requirement to stay home if sick in the past few years; but keeping in mind, since 2015, we have seen a trend of increasing absence. If you look at some of the survey data, one of the issues that we’ve seen grow is that some New Zealand families believe that it is OK to withdraw your child for large significant occasions or family holidays. We have a job to do across the board in reminding all families how important school attendance is, to boost the funding of attendance services—as we have—and continue to work at a community level to bring children back into school.

💬 David Seymour: Can the Prime Minister give an example of her making a mistake, apologising for it properly, and fixing it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: There’s been a number of occasions where we acknowledge that we will not have perfect responses. We’ve openly said that, for instance, managed isolation and quarantine was something that was very difficult at the time and that there were people affected by it and that we would do things differently if we were ever confronted with that again. But I stand by the work that we’ve done as a Government over this last year and over this past term—we’ve always made decisions that we believe to be in the best interests of New Zealand at the time. [Prime Minister resumes seat] He’s such an arrogant prick.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. to the Minister of Finance: Has he been instructed by the Prime Minister to look through the things he has on his agenda to ask himself whether “either from a spending perspective and investment perspective, or just from a focus perspective, those are things that we should be prioritising at this point in time”; if so, what initiatives, if any, has he identified should no longer be prioritised?

Yes, the Prime Minister has indeed asked that of all Ministers to consider, over the summer period, these matters. Given the beautiful Wellington day that we have today, which indicated summer has started, I have identified some areas that I won’t be prioritising. I won’t be prioritising selling off State houses, I won’t be prioritising cutting public services or under-investing in hospitals or schools, I won’t be prioritising not paying nurses and teachers what they deserve, and I won’t be prioritising a tax cut for the wealthiest New Zealanders.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he think the Government’s planned multimillion-dollar merger of Television New Zealand and Radio New Zealand should be prioritised while Kiwis are being squeezed by a cost of living crisis?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This Government is very proud of what we have done to support New Zealanders through the cost of living pressures that they’re facing, such as lifting benefits in 2020, 2021, and 2022, lifting the family tax credit, lifting childcare support, and providing the cost of living payment. We are able to do those things and also invest in other things as well.

💬 Nicola Willis: So can he just confirm for the House that the TVNZ-RNZ merger is on the chopping block—it’s gone?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can confirm no such thing, but what really interests me—what really interests me—is that members across the House somehow seem to think that we can go into the future with public broadcasting with no funding whatsoever. But, actually, come to think of it, that’s what they did for Radio New Zealand when they were in office.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he think his proposal to impose a new jobs tax on every worker to pay for a gold-plated unemployment scheme will meet the Prime Minister’s new test, or is the income insurance scheme set for the chop too?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member’s characterisation of the New Zealand Income Insurance Scheme is completely, wildly inaccurate, and she might like to have a chat to Gerry Brownlee and others who were part of a Government that introduced almost exactly the same payment for people in the wake of the Canterbury earthquakes.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does the Minister think the jobs tax will survive the summer, or is the Prime Minister after it?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is talking about something that doesn’t exist. The New Zealand Income Insurance Scheme—[Interruption] Well, here we go. Everything’s a tax over there, except the tax cut that they wanted to give to the highest-income New Zealanders. On this side of the House, we will always look for ways to support New Zealanders to get through a cost of living crisis. We actually care about what happens to New Zealanders when they lose their jobs, unlike that lot over there.

💬 Nicola Willis: When did the Prime Minister first instruct him to do a line-by-line, initiative-by-initiative review, and was it before or after Minister Wood told The AM Show last week that he had not been asked to do anything of the sort?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Prime Minister issues quite a few instructions, and I have in front of me here the Budget 2021 savings initiatives and the Budget 2022 savings initiatives. We take very seriously our job as responsible fiscal managers, and every day of the week we look to see what savings and reprioritisations we can make.

Question No. 6—Education

6. to the Minister of Education: What reports has he seen about numbers of people undertaking vocational education and training?

I’m pleased to report that more than 240,000 New Zealanders have received free vocational training through the Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund since it was introduced in 2020 to encourage people into vocational education and training in high-demand industries. It includes more than 106,000 apprentices.

💬 Camilla Belich: What was the purpose of the Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund, or TTAF, which finishes at the end of this month, began in July 2020 and was part of the Government’s response to COVID-19. It was designed to make it easier for those who wanted to train in strategically important industries where demand was expected to grow. COVID-19 resulted in many New Zealanders looking to retrain, and at the same time employers in key sectors were calling out for more skilled people. By removing fees, the extra funding gave many people the chance and the confidence to get into vocational training, to take on life-changing skills, and to help grow our workforce in ways that will benefit the country for decades to come.

💬 Camilla Belich: What groups and skill areas have particularly benefited from TTAF?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The biggest areas of study were construction, at 30 percent; community support, at 19 percent; and our primary industries, at 18 percent. Māori represented around 20 percent of TTAF learners, while Asian learners were at around 15 percent and Pacific people around 9 percent of the total.

💬 Camilla Belich: What impact has he seen on apprenticeship numbers overall?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Our investment in the Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund, as well as the Apprenticeship Boost initiative—which has been extended until the end of next year—is paying off. We’ve seen large increases in apprentice numbers and people of all ages from across the community engaged in vocational education. The largest group of learners are aged 25 to 39, but a quarter are aged over 40, proving that the lifelong learning message is being heard.

💬 Camilla Belich: What options are available for people wanting to undertake vocational training in 2023?

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Is this really a good question today?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Whilst the Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund is finishing next year, Kiwi learners might still be able to get free vocational education under the Fees-free scheme in 2023, even if they have received free training under TTAF. There’s hope for you yet, Mr Brownlee—there’s future career opportunities out there for you. I encourage everyone already in training or thinking about vocational education to check it out at feesfree.govt.nz.

Question No. 7—Justice

7. to the Minister of Justice: Is she confident the Government has the correct priorities in Justice?

Yes, which include responding to law and order issues through an evidence-based approach; improving access to justice in tackling delays; supporting victims in the stewardship of the overall justice system, which include a wide range of areas from civil law to electoral law.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: How can she be confident the Government has the correct justice policies when violent crime is on track to increase by almost 40 percent since 2017?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: We have, on this side of the House as a Government, put record levels of police on to the beach. We are tackling violent crime by giving police more powers to go after organised criminals and their assets, and increasing the consequences of their offending.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Following the Prime Minister’s instruction for Cabinet Ministers to be looking through things that are on the agenda and just asking ourselves whether or not, either from a spending perspective or an investment perspective or just from a focus perspective, those are things we should be prioritising at this point in time, is she going to jettison hate speech legislation and shift her focus on to reducing violent crime?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: As previously stated, we have a broad range of priorities and one of those was responding to the royal commission. We’re progressing with a carefully considered two-stage approach with a focused law change in response to that commission, which the member is well aware of. In addition, I can confirm that we will not be cutting costs on some of those key priorities, such as investing in victims. We have doubled the amount of support for the victims assistance scheme. That’s one example of the many priorities that we have under way.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she asked the Prime Minister if she still thinks the Government should be bringing forward legislation to reduce the voting age to 16, now that she wants Ministers focused and carefully prioritising their efforts?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: As the member will be well aware, this Parliament is obliged to consider that issue as a consequence of the Supreme Court’s ruling, and we should do so absolutely seriously.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does it still make sense to prioritise reducing the prison population when violent crime is rising, creating new victims with every crime?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Look, this is one of many priorities. It’s making sure that we get the settings right for our justice system. We have a broad range of targets and the member will be aware: 126 non-financial targets that are in the annual report—many of those are focused towards victims, in supporting victims; and that is indeed one of our key priorities.

Question No. 8—Tourism

8. to the Minister of Tourism: What reports has he seen on New Zealand’s tourism recovery?

Data released from the International Visitor Survey shows that spend from all international visitors totalled over a billion dollars in the September quarter. I’ve always been confident that once New Zealand’s borders reopened, international tourists would return and spend throughout our regions and boost our economy. This survey shows that the world is still drawn to our fantastic country, and international tourists are happy to pay for what New Zealand has to offer.

💬 Naisi Chen: How are our regions benefiting from the return of international visitors?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Tourists are coming to New Zealand, and they’re coming to the regions. Tourism electronic card transaction spend in eight regions was higher than pre-COVID levels. International spend in Gisborne had the greatest increase, up by 47 percent, closely followed by Hawke’s Bay, up by 45 percent—go the mighty East Coast. The regions are truly driving our tourism recovery, and it’s fantastic to see that tourists are getting off the beaten track, spending money, and our regional economies are benefiting.

💬 Naisi Chen: How are tourists spending compared to other international visitors?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: International tourists spent $200 million more than international visitors who had come to see friends and relatives, despite making up similar volumes of arrivals. What this data tells us is that our value proposition to international tourists remains incredibly strong. International tourists are staying longer, spending more, and enjoying all that this fantastic country has to offer.

💬 Naisi Chen: What recognition has New Zealand received internationally?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Earlier this month, New Zealand received two highly coveted international tourism awards: Best Country: Long-Haul in the National Geographic Reader Awards 2022 and Auckland as the first destination listed on the Condé Nast Traveler’s The 23 Best Places to Go in 2023—even though that probably should have been Napier. I know these accolades will be welcomed by our amazing tourism operators up and down the country as they gear up for a bumper summer season. My vision for tourism is for New Zealand to be one of the top three aspirational destinations for the world’s most discerning travellers, and it’s playing out better than planned.

Question No. 9—Immigration

9. to the Minister of Immigration: Why were nurses and midwives not placed on the straight-to-residence pathway of the Green List in May, and on what date did he first receive advice, if at all, that the retention rates of migrant nurses and midwives are no longer a concern?

When we launched the green list, we had some of the most competitive settings in the world for nurses and midwives, offering both groups a pathway to residence that did not exist for many of them under the previous Government. Since May, we have seen large numbers of nurses and midwives arrive in New Zealand, building on the thousands of health workers who have arrived since the pandemic began—around about 3,500 nurses over that time. But, in recent months, we’ve seen countries that we compete with strengthen their offering for skilled migrants, particularly in the health sector, where there is a global labour shortage. Our targeted adjustments to the green list announced yesterday will ensure that we remain internationally competitive and attractive to these migrants. To the second part of the member’s question, it is a simple fact that once someone has attained residency in New Zealand, whether that is a nurse or any other profession, for that matter, they have the ability then to work in other professions. Overall, the judgment that the Government has made, within light of those international factors, is that it is desirable to have an offer that is as attractive and as simple as possible. We’re focused on tackling immediate workforce shortages, and we have a simple message for any offshore nurses and midwives: come to New Zealand.

💬 Erica Stanford: Does he now concede that the rationale for making nurses wait two years for residence—that they might suddenly decide to stop nursing—never made any sense; and why didn’t he, when he first became the Minister, in June, take that opportunity to U-turn on a policy that no one in the health sector supported, rather than waiting another six months?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I reject a number of assertions in the member’s question. When the Government put in place the green list policy, we gave all 13 occupational groups of nurses a clear pathway to residency that did not exist previously. We have further streamlined and simplified that now. It’s not a U-turn; it’s an acceleration, and I think it will assist us in respect of the offer of nurses to come to New Zealand. What I note further is that the Government has worked closely with the health sector, not just to assess the situation of nurses and midwives but also to offer a streamlined residency pathway for other clinical workers and allied health workers. So this is a bigger package of changes to help our health sector.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can the Minister describe the difference between a U-turn and an acceleration?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: A U-turn would be having a policy to give big tax cuts to the wealthiest New Zealanders and then dropping it; an acceleration would be a policy of having a two-year pathway to residence, which was an improvement on the previous situation, and then making it straight to residency—something that has been welcomed by nearly every health sector group. The only people who seem to want to politicise it are the National Party.

💬 Erica Stanford: Does he stand by his response, on the topic of nurses on Newstalk ZB yesterday, when asked, “Here’s the thing, Minister: you guys are either stupid or stubborn”, when he said, “Hmm, well, you can hardly call us stubborn.”?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I encourage anyone to listen to my interview on Newstalk ZB last night, but it wasn’t the most productive of conversations. The member opposite and I have had far more productive conversations most Friday mornings. If I can respond to that question, which Heather du Plessis-Allan didn’t actually allow me to answer on Newstalk ZB, what I would say is that we have consistently said over the last few months, as we’ve worked through these genuine issues of workforce shortages in health, which everyone acknowledges and every country around the world is dealing with, is that we would keep an open mind, that we would look at the settings, that we would continue talking to the sector, and that what we have done as a result of that hasn’t just been, as the member has spoken about in question time today, to make changes to the settings around nurses and midwives; we have made more fundamental changes, which are going to be of significant assistance to the health sector. That is the opposite of being stubborn. That is listening and working with the sector.

Question No. 10—Transport

10. to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made about futureproofing New Zealand’s transport system?

Over the past few weeks, we’ve made several key announcements about futureproofing our transport system. The week before last, I announced the projects that will be funded by the Transport Choices package, which will make our towns and cities more people-friendly places to live, work, and visit, by investing in public transport, walking, and cycling in 46 councils across New Zealand. Then on Friday, I confirmed the Government’s investment in the Eastern Busway extension, which has been warmly welcomed by people in Auckland and the eastern suburbs. This will provide reliable, high-frequency service to those people, saving customers about 20 minutes on their bus or train trip between Botany town centre and Britomart. And on Saturday, construction began on O Mahurangi – Penlink, a vital connection for North Auckland, linking the Whangaparāoa peninsula with the wider Auckland region and providing residents with safer and more sustainable transport choices. The direction of travel is clear. We’re getting on with delivering projects or upgrading transport connections for Kiwis while reducing congestion and greenhouse emissions.

💬 Helen White: What are some of the key projects being funded by the Transport Choices package?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Transport Choices is about funding quick-win projects that will be delivered over the next two years in councils all around New Zealand. To name just three, in Taupō, we’re funding the district council to build separated cycleways from the town to Acacia Bay, giving more transport options across the bridge, improving outcomes for new developments in the north, and upgrading cycle connections in a number of schools in the area. In Tauranga, we’re investing in the Arataki multi-modal corridor—very much welcomed by the commissioner of Tauranga, the Hon Anne Tolley—with improved pedestrian crossing facilities, a separated cycleway, and better links for schools in the area. And in Auckland, we’re investing to vastly improve travel times by upgrading feeder routes for the Northwestern busway, which will include 45 new bus stops, up to nine kilometres of special vehicle lanes—

💬 Simeon Brown: Bus stops won’t win an election.

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: —and up to 10 new pedestrian crossings. And the member opposite’s bench mate should also be very pleased about the investments in the Waimakariri district.

💬 Naisi Chen: How will the Eastern Busway improve travel connections for East Aucklanders?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The Government’s announcement of a $200 million investment in the Eastern Busway extension, which builds on stage one, which we’ve already delivered in this term of Government, will cut travel times for residents of East Auckland in places like Pakuranga and Botany for those people who need to get into the city, while reducing congestion around the Pakuranga town centre. By 2028, the busway will carry up to 14,000 passengers per day, more than four times the 3,700 bus passengers prior to COVID-19. By 2048, that is expected to increase to up to 24,000 passengers per day. This is a game-changer for the people of the eastern suburbs of Auckland and it’s been warmly welcomed by them.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What benefits will O Mahurangi – Penlink deliver for residents in North Auckland?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: As more people live and work in Silverdale, Whangaparāoa, and the Hibiscus Coast, this new two-lane road and shared path will provide improved travel times and choices for a growing part of Auckland. The project will not simply support the surrounding community through more lanes for cars, as a separated, shared user path means people will be able to safely walk or travel or bike or scooter, helping to support our response to climate change. The project will also support much stronger public transport connections to the successful Northern Busway. Penklink is funded by the New Zealand Upgrade Programme, which now has $3 billion worth of projects in pre-construction works, with even more major projects set to get under way next year. Our Government is getting on and delivering the projects that matter to Kiwis in the transport system, and will reduce our emissions and give more transport choices.

Question No. 4 to Minister

Point of order , Mr Speaker. With great regret, I raise this matter at the earliest possible convenience that I’ve been informed about it. At the end of question 4, the Prime Minister made an exceedingly unparliamentary remark, which journalists are reporting from the on-demand video. I ask that you ask her to withdraw and apologise for that remark.

The member’s well aware of the correct procedure of raising—if it’s not raised at the time, you know, in my position now, I’d need to go back and have a look at the record and then I’ll make a decision about it.

💬 David Seymour: Point of order, just to clarify—

A new point of order?

💬 David Seymour: Well—

Or are you just going to disagree with—

💬 David Seymour: Well, I—

Well, I follow what’s recorded in the Hansard, not what’s reported to the House via the member from the media. You know, if you’re asking me, basically, saying, “Trust me; I’m going to do that on behalf of the House.”, well, I’m not going to.

💬 David Seymour: Well, Mr Speaker, you’re required to do that.

Yes, and I’ve told the House that I will look at Hansard to deal with it.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Speaking to the point of order. It’s quite usual—

I’ve actually ruled, so you can’t speak to that point of order. If you’re raising a new point of order, you can do that.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I’m just being helpful, Mr Speaker. I’m just letting you know that it’s not uncommon in circumstances like this for the Speaker to ask the person accused of making the unparliamentary statement if they had in fact made that statement, and to withdraw and apologise if they had.

That’s correct, and if the member looked across the House, you would be able to see that I am not able to ask that member.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Point of order, Mr Speaker.

Well—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: No, but it was an interesting response, because I didn’t want to talk about the Prime Minister not being here.

Yeah, that’s the last comment that I’m going to entertain. To do so would be to break the Standing Orders myself; I’m not going to do that.

Question No. 11—Local Government

11. to the Minister of Local Government: Did she receive advice from the Department of Internal Affairs on 25 October raising the possibility that Hon Eugenie Sage would pursue entrenchment of provisions in the Water Services Entities Bill via Supplementary Order Paper and stating the Government would need to decide whether to support it; if so, how does she reconcile that with her answer to me in oral questions on 6 December, “We were made aware of the details of the SOP at the same time as he was”?

Yes, I received advice from Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) in response to a letter received from Hon Eugenie Sage on 20 October 2022 that covered a range of their party’s concerns related to the water reforms, such as stormwater, co-governance, funding, and privatisation. I can reconcile this with my response to the member’s oral question on 6 December because it was related more specifically to a matter foreshadowed in that letter and then subsequently set out at a later date and tabled in Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 285.

💬 Simon Watts: Did she send advice received on SOP 285 on 22 November relating to entrenchment, to any other Ministers; if so, who?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That SOP was tabled by Hon Eugenie Sage in the House. It was a very dynamic debate. I saw that SOP at the same time and then subsequently sought advice on it.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. That wasn’t the question. The question was about the advice that the Minister received on that SOP and whether or not that advice was sent to other Ministers.

💬 SPEAKER: That’s not quite how I heard it—but Simon Watts, if you could ask the question again, because I thought it was different to that, but away you go.

💬 Simon Watts: Did she send advice received on Supplementary Order Paper 285 on 22 November relating to entrenchment, to any other Ministers; if so, who?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: As I said, there was a dynamic debate that occurred in the House. I saw that SOP when it was tabled, and then subsequently sought advice.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry, I’ll give the member an additional question.

💬 Simon Watts: Did she receive advice on Supplementary Order Paper 285 on 22 November relating to entrenchment, and did she send that advice to any other Ministers?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: The advice that I sought was in relation to the discussions in relation to an entrenchment provision at a threshold of 75 percent. In that regard, we did not have a provision within the bill, as introduced, because of decisions that were made at Cabinet.

💬 David Seymour: Point of order. It was a very reasonable question about advice received and shared on a particular day. The advice that the Minister was referring to occurred months beforehand. How can she get out of addressing the question of, “Did she receive advice on that amendment on that day; and if so, did she share it with anyone?” That wasn’t remotely addressed.

💬 SPEAKER: Can the member ask the question once more?

💬 Simon Watts: Did she receive advice on SOP 285 on 22 November relating to entrenchment, and did she send that advice to any other Ministers?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: The advice that I requested and received was in relation to an entrenchment provision of 75 percent. As I say, that is the advice upon which I acted on. The fact that Standing Order 270 enables a lower threshold of entrenchment to be considered was a matter for the Clerk to determine whether or not it was in or out of scope within the context of the debate that we had.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. Again, that just does not address the very direct and simple question that my colleague, Simon Watts, is asking. It just goes nowhere to address that question.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, having heard the answer a second time, the answer covered the information that the Minister requested, which was different to the information that the member asked about. So the member can read into that whatever he wishes.

💬 Simon Watts: Who did she send that advice to?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I acted on the advice—to the extent that I sought advice in relation to the entrenchment provision at a 75 percent threshold, and acted accordingly, and the bill was not introduced with an entrenchment provision. In relation to SOP 285, we have already had the debate—a mistake was made that has been rectified; we have the water service entities law without any entrenchment provision.

💬 Simon Watts: Point of order. My question was clearly “who” did she send the advice to; I don’t believe that question was answered.

💬 SPEAKER: I’ll ask the member to ask that once more.

💬 Simon Watts: Who did she send that advice to?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: In relation to the advice I received regarding a 75 percent threshold of entrenchment, there was no need to forward on that advice because we’d already made a decision in relation to that particular matter.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Minister for Local Government stand by her statement just now that it was a mistake to support Supplementary Order Paper 285 entrenching three waters provisions or does she stand by her statement to the committee of the whole House at the time, that members had a “moral obligation” to support it—what was it, a moral obligation or a mistake?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: We’ve rectified that matter. It was a mistake; it has been resolved, there is no constitutional crisis and there is no entrenchment provision in the water services entities law.

💬 Simon Watts: Why did she seek advice if she had already made a decision?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That SOP was introduced by another member in the House; it was a very dynamic debate. It’s not entirely the case that on every SOP—that could be tendered by any member in this House—that it wouldn’t be debated or considered in a very dynamic environment. In regards to SOP 285, an admission has been made that a mistake did occur; we rectified it, the water services entities law does not include an entrenchment provision.

Question No. 12—Education

12. to the Minister of Education: Does he think the wages of rural school bus drivers in Aotearoa are fair?

I appreciate the valuable work that all bus drivers do to ensure children and young people are transported to and from school safely. I note that the Government’s made additional funding available to support better terms and conditions, to attract and retain public transport bus drivers. I’m committed to ensuring that rural communities are not disadvantaged by the additional support provided to public transport bus drivers.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is he aware of a discrepancy in wages between rural school bus drivers and urban bus drivers, and, if so, what is this discrepancy?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I indicated in my primary answer, yes, I am aware of the current discrepancy.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is he confident that no tamariki will be left outside their farm gates at the beginning of term one next year as drivers seek better pay in other parts of the bus industry?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes, I am confident that those who’ve contracted to delivering bus services will continue to deliver them. We’ve just recently gone through a contracting round for school bus services, and there was a particular emphasis, during that contracting round, on improving the employment conditions of bus drivers, including on improving their wages. Obviously, the decisions the Government has taken around public transport bus drivers postdate that recent contracting round for school bus services, and therefore we are considering how best to deal with the flow-on consequences of that.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does the $61 million allocated in Budget 2022 to standardise minimum base-wage rates apply to rural bus drivers, and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No, because they are funded through two entirely different funding sources.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Why does the Ministry of Education not set a wage floor or base rate for its school transport services?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: One of the conditions in the contract is around making sure that bus drivers are appropriately treated. It doesn’t specifically have a wage floor, but it does have provisions within the contract—and it was used as one of the criteria in determining who was allocated contracts.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: How will he ensure rural school bus drivers are paid fair wages without having to wait until fair pay agreements have come into force?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I indicated, one of the things that the Government is considering at the moment is the implication of the recent moves to increase public transport bus driver wages—we’re considering the flow-on implications of that to school bus drivers.