Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government’s statements and actions?

Yes—in particular, our work around climate change. This morning, Minister Woods announced funding, as part of the Low Emission Transport Fund, that will see 11 new transport projects, including clever solutions for electric vehicle charging, ways to cut fuel costs in heavy freight, and the first marine project, which will pilot electric outboard motors. As a Government, we understand the need to tackle climate change, and this is one policy area where we’re working hard to support long-term sustainability and economic growth. Our climate change policy is clear: we know that it’s not good enough to sign up to goals but then not back it up with policy or action. New Zealand has had too much of that in the recent past, but I do welcome—I do welcome—the Leader of the Opposition’s commitment today to supporting the clean car discount.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Can he confirm that his Government is burning almost three times more coal than in any year of a National Government?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I can confirm is that last week we had 97 percent of our electricity generated from renewable sources. That is not something the member can claim.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why has the Ministry of Education added an extra 280 managers, 60 lawyers and accountants, and 50 policy analysts since 2017?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: On this side of the House, we know that investing in education is vitally important. One of the things we’ve done is add thousands of teachers, hundreds of teacher-aides, hundreds of learning support workers, and we pay them properly. We need an education system that is well funded, well resourced, and well supported. We need education facilities that are warm and dry and safe. This Government has prioritised investing in that, unlike the previous Government.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why has he tripled the number of staff at the Ministry of Education earning over $120,000, and how many more bureaucrats will it take before we see any improvement in school attendance and achievement?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What we’re doing is investing in the attendance strategy, which, I note, was launched at an intermediate school that the Leader of the Opposition is so fond of. When that was launched, it was in term 2 of this year, and that school was actually having some problems with attendance in term 2 because of COVID. So the member is right to highlight the excellent work done in that school on attendance. We were proud to launch our attendance strategy to address those issues at that school.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does he agree that kids who are not being taught the basics, like maths, reading, and writing, are less likely to attend school regularly, and, if so, why has the Government not taken any action to raise standards in our schools?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Firstly, in answer to the second part of the question, that’s simply wrong. In answer to the first part of the question, what we do is invest in and support good quality teachers and good quality leaders in our schools. What we don’t do is go on television and run down the hard-working principals in decile 1 schools.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What role does he think the Government’s failure to lift attendance has had on the rise in youth crime, when police figures show the majority of young offenders are not regularly attending school?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We all know that there is a variety of causes for what we’re seeing among the group of young people who have been involved in ram raids. That’s why you have to take an approach that is about getting to the root causes of that. What we also know is that every time the member stands up and ignores the fact that we’ve had COVID, which has caused a huge number of those people to fall into the category, he undermines his own argument. We’re supporting schools. We’re supporting principals. We’re not running them down like the member did on television this morning.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Has the Acting Prime Minister been informed that the previous Government lowered the standard for achieving literacy and numeracy under NCEA and that this Government is in the process of raising it?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely, and this is the issue that New Zealanders had for some time in our education system—that, when people like the National Party get hold of the levers of power, they put in place their ideological experiment like national standards, which has been a massive failure. And the member might like to think about some of the people he’s worried about in terms of literacy and numeracy standards—exactly when they entered the education system. The member shouldn’t be making that sign about going around in a circle on policy on a day like today.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is he concerned that the finance Minister is so distracted from his day job that in a recent keynote speech he only mentioned the cost of living crisis once and, while I appreciate he’s a fan, mentioned me nine times?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The very real and present danger that the Leader of the Opposition represents to New Zealanders definitely needed highlighting. I think the member might want to have a think about today, in his career as the Leader of the Opposition, because what he managed to do was a U-turn on a U-turn on a U-turn—the first politician in history to complete a policy doughnut.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What is he more concerned about: the cost of living crisis or me?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I am concerned about is that member making the cost of living crisis worse.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The latest economic overview from Westpac bank, released yesterday, reported that the economy is performing strongly, with household spending remaining firm and businesses continuing to take on staff. Economic activity has also been reinforced by the return of overseas tourists. Looking ahead, Westpac’s economists are forecasting economic growth to moderate to levels lower than we’ve seen over the past few years, as forecasts of lower global growth affect our prospects and domestic demand eases. New Zealand is in a strong position in what is a challenging international environment. Unemployment is at near record lows, and wages are rising faster than inflation to help deal with cost of living pressures. Our exports, goods, and services are what the world wants, and the Government’s solid financial position—with debt levels among the lowest in the world—will help us through this time. It is a challenging time for New Zealand, but we are well positioned to deal with it.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on the return of overseas tourists and their impact on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yesterday, Stats New Zealand reported that the number of overseas visitors rose to more than 151,000 in September—an increase of 17 percent on the previous month. While Stats New Zealand said that this was below the numbers seen in September months prior to COVID, the sharp increase in overseas visitors in recent months has provided a welcome boost to our hospitality and accommodation sectors after a tough couple of years, and there is still the promise of a bumper summer to come.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Activity in the services sector rose in October, with the BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Services Index at 57.4—up 1.5 points from September and above the long-term average of 53.6. Sales and new orders remained at healthy levels, while employment in the sector experienced its highest level of activity since April 2021.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on the international context and its impact on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The IMF has told G20 leaders at their current meeting that the global economic outlook is gloomier than it was a month ago when it had, in turn, revised its forecast down for growth in 2023. It said that nations faced a number of downside risks and that weakening economic indicators pointed to challenging times ahead. New Zealand is not immune to what happens globally, but we are well positioned to respond. We will continue to support New Zealanders while investing in what matters to them—their health, their education, and housing—and addressing long-term issues like climate change, while keeping a lid on debt. This takes a balanced and sustainable approach to spending, and to target it where it is supported the most. It does mean tough choices are required as we face a volatile and uncertain future.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the statement from Westpac that “the picture for borrowers is set to become a lot tougher over the coming year”, and what advice has he received, if any, on the impact this will have on New Zealand households?

To answer the first part of the question, that would depend on the situation facing each borrower. And, indeed, Westpac themselves said that in the same report that the member is quoting from: “The impact of those rate rises will feel very different for households across the country.” I do acknowledge the global inflation spike, which we are not immune from in New Zealand, is causing interest rates to rise around the world, including in New Zealand, and that is putting pressure on households. To answer the second part of the member’s question, there are a wide range of views, including those held by Westpac, regarding the economic situation we’re facing. How such sentiment is set to influence economic outcomes, including for houses, is debatable. Given the deteriorating sentiment, including that which the member has asked about, I have been seeking advice on how to help particularly low to middle income households to get through this period. That is, of course, why we have invested in lifting benefits, increasing childcare support, lifting the minimum wage, increasing the family tax credit, cutting fuel excise, and more.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can he confirm that a family with a mortgage of $500,000 refixing from an interest rate of 3 percent on to 6 percent—as many, many families will have to do in the coming months—will be paying $15,000 more each year in interest costs?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It is absolutely true that those people who were able to fix mortgages when interest rates were very low will be facing a significant increase when they come to refix their mortgages. That is a product of the Reserve Bank doing its job to bring inflation back down. I repeat something I’ve said for the member numerous times in this House: this is a global phenomenon. New Zealand finds itself in a position where we have the 10th lowest inflation rate in the OECD. Everyone is dealing with the same problem. We are continuing to support New Zealand households through this.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he recall, during the last election campaign, the Labour finance spokesperson talking at length about how the Government’s leadership had led to a strong economy, and why is it that some people are prepared to take the credit for what the economy is doing when it suits them and not when New Zealanders are facing tough times?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I will take responsibility for the position that New Zealand finds itself in today with respect to the Government’s policy. That is a position where we have 3.3 percent unemployment, one of the lowest levels of unemployment we have ever seen; a position where we have one of the lowest levels of public debt in the world; a position where our economy is 4.8 percent bigger than it was before COVID; and a position where average hourly wages have gone ahead of inflation. It has been a tough period for many New Zealand households over the last couple of years, and I stand by the record of this Government.

💬 Nicola Willis: How will the host of statistics the Minister just recited help the family trying to find $15,000 to service their mortgage?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I’m not sure, because the member’s colleagues were shouting, that she heard me say that average hourly earnings in New Zealand have been going ahead of inflation in recent times, the lifts to the minimum wage, the lifts to the family tax credit, the lifts to childcare assistance—all things that will help New Zealanders through this period of time and, for the most part, all things opposed by the National Party.

💬 Nicola Willis: So do we take it from the Minister’s answer that his message to families struggling with the burden of extreme mortgage-servicing costs is “Don’t complain. Labour’s funding lots of subsidies. We’ve done some policies, so it’s not our fault.”?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: My message is the same message I gave earlier in this question time: that we understand that there is an impact on many New Zealand households. It is tough for many New Zealand households; that’s why we’ve been helping them. I also say to those households that they cannot look to the Opposition benches for any comfort, given the priority over there is tax cuts for the wealthiest New Zealanders.

💬 Nicola Willis: What does he say to Stephen, who wrote to me asking, “Where does the extra money needed come from? Our mortgage would now make the Sherriff of Nottingham blush.”; and when, if ever, will that Minister take responsibility for his role in getting the cost of living, and interest rates, under control?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I say to that person is, just as we have done for the last 2½ years, we will continue to support New Zealanders through tough times. We won’t flip-flop on policy, we won’t change our mind about how we deal with important issues, and we won’t have two or three policy hui a week and then have no policy ideas to give to the New Zealand public.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Minister of Finance aware that ANZ bank have upgraded their two-year forecast for the official cash rate eight times since February 2021, from 0.25 percent then to 5 percent now—it’s all coming through in people’s mortgage payments—and if he is aware, does he intend to make any change in policy direction so that people can see the end of these increases?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member well knows, price stability or the control of inflation is at the core of the Reserve Bank’s mandate. They are doing what they do in order to deal with that. On this side of the House, we’re making sure that we support people through targeted support to make sure it goes to the people who desperately need it, unlike parties opposite who would propose across-the-board tax cuts focused on the most wealthy.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Minister of Finance seriously saying that tax cuts offered by a party like ACT that would give $2,300 extra in the pocket to a nurse in the middle of their career earning $70,000 is just “tax cuts focused on the most wealthy”, or is it that in Grant Robertson’s Labour, $70,000 is the most wealthy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It’s very, very interesting—Don Brash was both the leader of the National Party and the leader of the ACT Party, and he has most recently said that now is absolutely not the time for tax cuts. I appreciate that the member might want to out - Don Brash Don Brash; that isn’t what we’re going to do.

Question No. 4—Housing

4. to the Minister of Housing: How is the Government partnering with iwi to enable more affordable housing in Rotorua?

Last week, the first of many new affordable homes to be delivered in Rotorua were opened to local whānau. These are the result of our Government’s partnership with Ngāti Whakaue to grow the supply of public and affordable housing in Rotorua. These homes are part of a larger multi-stage development at Wharenui Rise, bringing much needed housing to the whānau and community of Ngāti Whakaue. That is what we can achieve through local solutions and partnership, with the Government investing $55 million to fund infrastructure for the new homes.

Tāmati Coffey: What can we expect to see from this partnership?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Wharenui Rise will provide for 1,100 homes over the next 20 years, providing a community focused, environmentally friendly living space with affordable homes and kaumatua housing. The initial three stages will deliver 212 of these homes. As part of stage one, 52 homes have been completed as of November. Stage two will deliver 84 homes, with earthworks already completed, and stage three will deliver a further 76 homes, with earthworks to be started in 2023-2024.

Tāmati Coffey: What infrastructure will this partnership deliver?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The investment of $55 million will enable the future stages of the development of Wharenui Rise, $35 million will deliver improvements to State Highway 30, and work is well under way and expected to be completed by mid-2023. The improvements through the Wharenui Rise will address key transport constraints to future stages of Ngāti Whakaue Tribal Lands Wharenui Rise development. The remaining $20 million is committed to Rotorua Lakes Council for the enabling infrastructure, including local roading improvements and $15 million for sewerage and stormwater infrastructure, and these projects are expected to be completed by quarter three in 2023.

Tāmati Coffey: How will this address the housing crisis in Rotorua?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: From 2013, Rotorua’s population increased by approximately 9,000 people. In that time, only 1,000 new residential dwellings were added. The lack of any new building of State houses, coupled with a sell-off of State houses, also saw a net loss of 42 public houses between 2008 and 2017. This shortfall in housing supply drove up rents and led to overcrowding, housing stress, and, ultimately, homelessness, but we are starting to see progress. From August to October 2022, we have exited six emergency housing motels in Rotorua. We know we can’t solve this crisis on our own, and this is why we are partnering with iwi Māori as well as the community organisations and council to find and deliver solutions for Rotorua.

Question No. 5—COVID-19 Response

5. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Is she satisfied that the Government’s response to COVID-19 is delivering equitable outcomes, including by implementing the recommendations of the Waitangi Tribunal in Haumaru: The COVID-19 Priority Report?

💬 SPEAKER: I’ll just let the House know that the Minister has advised me that this answer will take a little longer than usual.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. We recognise the disproportionate impacts of the pandemic on Māori, which were highlighted by the tribunal’s Haumaru report. We have made significant steps forward in addressing the disparities highlighted by the report, and actions are in place to address each of the five recommendations the report has made. With respect to the first recommendation, specific funding has been given directly to Māori health providers to support the COVID-19 response, including $29.6 million for the response into Omicron. With respect to the second recommendation, the Ministry of Health is working with Statistics New Zealand to bring together ethnicity and disability data, and analysis of that data is under way.

With respect to the third recommendation, the Māori Monitoring Group has been set up, and that enables leadership from across different sectors and communities to provide independent accountability and monitoring of the Ministry of Health with respect to its COVID-19 activities. With respect to the fourth recommendation, there is significant work under way to maximise the paediatric and booster roll-out for Māori, including sprint events conducted at the local level in collaboration with Māori health providers. And finally, to the fifth recommendation, Te Arawhiti implemented a revised Crown approach to engaging with iwi Māori on the COVID-19 response to enable Māori views to have a stronger and earlier input into the response.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Why did the Government remove mask mandates on public transport, despite advice from the Director-General of Health that “Māori, Pasifika, people with disabilities, and people living in areas of high deprivation are likely to be disproportionately affected if mask mandates were removed and replaced with strong recommendations.”

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: We continue to recommend the use of masks on public transport and in other crowded places. The mandate is not in place because of the feasibility and practicalities of enforcing a mandate in that setting. It is worth remembering that in public transport, we’re often asking the drivers or stewards to enforce compliance with the mandate.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: How is the Government supporting Māori and Pasifika peoples experiencing long COVID?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Long COVID is an incredibly challenging condition. I know many people with long COVID and other post-viral syndromes suffer from lack of recognition of that condition. From very early on, since there has been awareness of long COVID, we have been very clear that it is real, and reflected it in our guidelines. It is really important that people are aware of where to go in the health system to have a diagnosis and explanation and advice about their recovery. In addition, we do keep searching for new ways that we might be able to do more. In our third tranche of investment in specific COVID-19 research, we included multiple projects addressed at new science of COVID-19, including one project that would develop a patient register and another that would monitor some of the immunological characteristics of the condition.

💬 Dr Elizabeth Kerekere: Will the Ministry of Health commit to conducting COVID-19 prevalence surveys to provide more reliable information on the level of risk, especially within Māori and Pasifika communities and for immunocompromised and disabled people?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Thank you. As we canvassed at select committee today, we are committed to conducting a prevalence survey. I think one of the complexities that the team is working through with that study is how to get a representative sample of Māori and Pasifika, as well as the whole population. So it cannot just be a random sample; it has to have an over-representation of some of the populations that the member has mentioned. I would just like to return to the overall point here, which is that we have a wealth of data for tracking our outbreak of the pandemic in New Zealand when you look across the case reporting numbers, the use of whole genome sequencing and of wastewater sampling—all of which is broken down, where possible, by ethnicity and made publicly available very quickly.

💬 Dr Elizabeth Kerekere: Which specific recommendations of the Waitangi Tribunal report into COVID-19 has the Government implemented in full?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: I refer the member to my primary answer.

💬 Dr Elizabeth Kerekere: Will she commit to rolling out more effective bivalent boosters once this receives Medsafe approval, and expressly prioritise Māori and Pasifika communities, and those providers, in that roll-out?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: The decision to roll-out a vaccine is based on both Medsafe approval and expert advice from the COVID-19 technical advisory group and others in the Ministry of Health, and the arrangements for the procurement of those vaccines are under way. But I do want to challenge the premise of that member’s question, and just refer her to the Good practice statement on the use of variant-containing COVID-19 vaccines published by the World Health Organization on 17 October, that are quite clear that at this stage there is no evidence of superiority of bivalent vaccines for preventing COVID-19. It is incredibly important we continue to encourage people to get boosted with the highly effective vaccine that is available.

Question No. 6—Social Development and Employment

6. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What updates has she seen on Flexi-wage?

The success of the Government’s Flexi-wage expansion continues, with over 8,000 employers supporting over 21,500 people into jobs; 37 percent of participants identified as Māori and 13 percent as Pacific. Through Flexi-wage, employers have been able to get a wage contribution for 24 weeks at $276 a week, totalling $6,624, or 36 weeks at $206 per week, totalling $9,936. In addition, the Ministry of Social Development can provide further training and ongoing support—particularly if a person has complex or specific needs—into work. It’s been one of the many ways we’ve supported people into jobs, as well as employers to scale up their businesses, giving them the confidence to get back on their feet.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: How has Flexi-wage supported people off benefit and into work?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Of those on benefit for two-plus years at referral, 90 percent are current, have completed, or finished early and are not currently on benefit. On Monday, I visited a Flexi-wage employer and met one worker who had been on benefit for 25 years, but, through Flexi-wage, was supported into a job and is loving it. It’s stories like these which really reinforce how lives can be transformed through interventions and tools that our Government has put in place to support people, particularly as we come out the other end of COVID, and support families, at the same time, with the cost of living.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: Why does Flexi-wage continue to be an important part of New Zealand’s economic recovery?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If there’s one lesson we’ve been able to take from COVID-19, it’s been that our deliberate approach to targeted support and programmes is successful in getting people into jobs and keeping them off benefit, as well as securing our economic recovery. It’s a tool that is also helping to meet skills and workforce shortages and employ jobseekers in many different sectors, including construction, retail, agriculture, forestry, fishing, and food services. We need to continue building the skills of the people moving into the workforce, especially Māori and Pacific, parents and carers, disabled people, and people with health conditions. Flexi-wage sits alongside a suite of employment interventions and is part of an economic recovery and plan that leaves no one behind.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: What other evidence has she seen that shows Flexi-wage has supported our economic recovery?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Flexi-wage has been one of the many interventions that has contributed to a record-low, or near - record-low, unemployment rate of 3.3 percent, and a record-high participation rate of 71.7 percent. An extra 35,000 people were employed in the quarter, leading to a record-high number of 2.85 million people in work, and jobseeker work-ready numbers continue to fall, quarter on quarter. We know that many people are doing it tough in the face of cost of living pressures, but with the support of paid work, expanded childcare assistance, an extension to our fuel tax cut, and reduced road-user charges, we’re easing the pressure on families. As we’ve always said, our job is far from over, but we’re certainly making progress.

Question No. 7—Justice

7. to the Minister of Justice: Is she confident the justice system is delivering justice for the victims of crime?

It’s fair to say we are always looking to ensure that we get the overall settings right for the justice system, including for victims. In terms of support for victims, the Government has doubled funding for the Victim Assistance Scheme since being in office; and in Budget 2022, we put aside significant resources for a whole-of-Government support programme for victims of crime. The Government has put record levels of police on the beat, passed the Sexual Violence Legislation Act, invested over $1 billion into family violence and sexual violence systems since 2018, is making legislative changes to target organised crime, and a team has recently been established within the Ministry of Justice to drive further policy change to improve the system for victims. As the member will be aware, though, the responsibility for convictions and sentencing sits with the courts.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does she accept there is a perception out there, described most recently by Dr Greg Newbold, emeritus professor of criminology at the University of Canterbury, “This whole kindness thing means people can do what the hell they want, especially young offenders.”, and if so, does she acknowledge that the sense that there are no consequences is a big part of the problem and is creating more victims?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Whilst I’m not so familiar with the quote, to the sentiment: New Zealanders want to ensure that when we’re taking a victim-centric approach, that we’re not ultimately gearing more young people up to be lifelong seasoned criminals to go on and create more harm and, therefore, further victims.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: What responsibility, if any, does she take for the perception there are no consequences for serious youth crime having developed after five years of her Government’s justice policy?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Well, I could point to statistics, which will show that over past 10 years in New Zealand, in the United States, in Australia, and in the United Kingdom—that in every single one of those jurisdictions over the last 10 years, we have seen youth crime rates go down and down and down. Or I could point to statistics just here in New Zealand, which will show that when we do get spikes of crime—for example, in the areas of ram raids—with efficient and effective policing, we see prosecutions and we see those people that are responsible for those crimes being apprehended and dealt to by the justice system.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does she accept that a culture of excuses has developed under her Government, where serious young offenders are given multiple chances, while the victims of the crime often have no choice but to give up running their shops or to live in fear, like the teenagers beaten up at Queensgate Mall bus shelter on Saturday have to do?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: No, I don’t accept that statement at all.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does she agree then with the Prime Minister’s statement, a few weeks ago, that we need a “wider range of tools” to respond to serious youth crime, and, if so, how many more months will victims have to wait to see these new tools actually delivered?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Absolutely; I always agree with the Prime Minister and she’s absolutely right: we do need broader tools to deal with youth crime. We’ve started that; we’ve had the announcement by Minister Hipkins and Minister Sepuloni, where we have invested targeted resource into prevention and rehabilitation. Why do we do that? We do that because we ultimately want to curb criminal activities in a lifelong trajectory. On this side of the House, we think that’s the right investment to make.

Question No. 8—Health

8. to the Minister of Health: Has he received any advice saying “that many health professions are experiencing workforce shortages and should be included in the Green List now”; if so, when, if at all, will he advocate to get such health professions on the Green List?

To the first part of the member’s question, this Government created the Green List, which has made it easier than ever to come to New Zealand to practise as a nurse and indeed many other health professions. From the beginning, we built into the policy a review for early next year, and I’ve been consistently clear that we are keeping a watching brief in the meantime. In light of information that some medical disciplines in short supply were not being granted accredited employer work visas on the Green List, I requested advice from the Ministry of Health on which disciplines they considered should be on the Green List. The advice I received stated as the member’s question states; however, the ministry has advised the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) that many health professions are experiencing workforce shortages and should be included in the Green List now. To the second part of the member’s question, I continue to work with colleagues, officials, and stakeholders on addressing the current workforce shortages, considering all avenues, including immigration and also long-term workforce planning measures. The latter was the subject of a day-long discussion with around 220 health workforce representatives on Saturday, which the member was invited to but which she did not attend.

Brooke van Velden: Why is his Government yet to add the 30 health professions identified in this briefing by the Ministry of Health as experiencing staff shortages to the Green List?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: If the member had read the document that she is in possession of, she would see that MBIE had advised the Ministry of Health of the additional professions that they were adding to the Green List. That arose out of confusion on the part of Immigration New Zealand, who, when they saw the term “specialist physician”, did not seem to know what that applied to and were in fact denying specialist physicians of a range of disciplines access to visas under the Green List. That is now in the process of being rectified.

💬 Erica Stanford: Why, when I asked the Minister last week why gastroenterologists, paediatricians, and oncologists weren’t on the Green List, did he say, “It’s my understanding that they are.”, given that he was provided with a briefing containing 30 medical specialities not on the Green List, including these three specialists; was he wrong or did he not read the briefing correctly?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: No. The member doesn’t understand what a specialist physician is. Those roles are specialist physicians and the advice I received was late in the afternoon last Wednesday.

Brooke van Velden: Does he agree with Ministry of Health officials that there is a problem when they stated in their briefing to him on 9 November 2022: “There is a risk to the delivery of health services if these professions are not included on the Green List.”?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Yes, and I think what the member is not saying, presumably for reasons of her own convenience, is that many of those disciplines were expected to be candidates for accredited employer work visas on the Green List because they were specialist physicians.

Brooke van Velden: If there are actions the Government could take tomorrow to get these 30 professions, including dentists, nurse practitioners, and paramedics, into the country, why wouldn’t the Government just do it?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: This Government has established the Green List to allow ease of access not just to the country but to residency in this country as a way of ensuring that we can fill the gaps that we had. But if you have a look at the experience, for example, of the visas we’ve had in place for some time, particularly the critical work purpose visa, and knowing that we are still admitting to the country now people who were granted those visas at the beginning of the year, there is always a lag, and so we always have that. When we establish rules and put in place a category called “specialist physician”, health professionals understand what that means; immigration officials don’t always understand what that means. When we discover that there is a misunderstanding, we then seek to rectify it.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can he confirm that “specialist physicians not elsewhere classified” refers specifically to Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations code 253399, 13 medical specialties, not including gastroenterologists, paediatricians, and oncologists, and why did he say that they were on the Green List last week?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The Green List has a category called “specialist physician”. The recommendation of MBIE now is to have a category called “specialist physician with some particular disciplines excluded”. When the member asked me the question, the category that qualified for admission to the country, under the Green List, was “specialist physician”; that included gastroenterologists and paediatric specialists, which were the two particular disciplines referred to in her question.

💬 Hon Michael Wood: Can the Minister confirm that most of the specialist medical roles under discussion will have a residency pathway in New Zealand through the skilled migrant category that the Government opened up last month?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Yes, I can, and what I can also confirm to the House is that the Minister of Immigration and I are in regular contact, reviewing the data, reviewing the numbers of people who are being granted visas, on the Green List and off it, and we continue to keep that under review.

💬 Erica Stanford: Why, when I asked him last week why gastroenterologists, paediatricians, and oncologists weren’t on the Green List, not mentioning anything to do with specialist physicians, did he say that it was “my understanding that they are”, and, was it, in fact, him that was confused, rather than Immigration New Zealand?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: No, the member was confused; I was correct.

Question No. 9—Tourism

9. to the Minister of Tourism: What announcement has the Government recently made on supporting the tourism sector?

Some great news. Last week, the Prime Minister and I announced that the Government’s tourism innovation fund is now open for applications. The $54 million fund will support projects that reduce emissions, enhance our natural environment, and use innovation to improve the resilience and productivity of the sector. Moving to this regenerative model will provide a huge boost to New Zealand’s tourism recovery. I also announced last week that Saturday’s arrival of the first direct Air Canada flight from Vancouver in almost two years means that Auckland Airport is now the most connected airport to North America across the whole of Australasia.

💬 Jamie Strange: Why is it important to move to a regenerative tourism model?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: We want to ensure that tourism has a positive impact on the environment and our communities, and this is what regenerative tourism is fundamentally about. Also, from a “Brand New Zealand” perspective, it’s very important that we continue to preserve our natural environment and build social licence across our communities. That’s what the tourism innovation partnership will help us achieve, but most importantly, it plays into my vision for tourism—that being that New Zealand is one of the top three aspirational destinations for the world’s most discerning travellers.

💬 Jamie Strange: How is increased air connectivity helping to support New Zealand’s tourism recovery?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Extensive airline schedules now connect Aotearoa New Zealand directly to eight destinations in North America. Auckland Airport confirmed that October was the busiest school holidays since 2019, with 600,000 passengers flying both domestically and internationally via Auckland Airport. Our improved air connectivity is a huge advantage for our tourism recovery heading into summer.

💬 Jamie Strange: Supplementary—[Interruption] There’s more! What reports has he seen on New Zealand’s tourism recovery?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Good news again. Data released from Stats New Zealand yesterday highlighted the continued growth in international visitor numbers, with overseas visitors for the month of September continuing the upward growth trend. Along with international tourism, electronic card transaction spend was up 2 percent on pre-COVID levels. This summer is going to truly be a fantastic one for tourism across our wonderful country.

Question No. 10—Immigration

What is the total number of offshore nurses that submitted their application in April this year to come to New Zealand compared to October this year, and why has the number of offshore nurses applying to come to New Zealand declined every month since he introduced the new Accredited Employer Work Visa (AEWV) on 4 July 2022?

Yeah; it wasn’t read as written, but the Minister can answer as it’s written.

10. to the Minister of Immigration: What is the total number of offshore nurses that submitted their application in April this year to come to New Zealand compared to October this year, and why does he think the number of offshore nurses applying to come to New Zealand has declined every month since he introduced the new Accredited Employer Work Visa on 4 July 2022?

I reject the premise of the member’s question, and I’m happy to explain that clearly and fully for the benefit of the House. I’m advised that there are 141 offshore critical purpose visa applications, made up of both Competency Assessment Programme—that is CAP—and non-CAP nurses accepted for processing by Immigration New Zealand in April 2022, and 39 applications received under the Accredited Employer Work Visa in October. However, as repeatedly advised to the member through written parliamentary questions, CAP nurses are not recorded under this visa and now arrive on visitor visas instead. As such, those figures do not give the full picture of the number of nurses who are successfully attracted to New Zealand. To get a fuller picture, I note that October Nursing Council data shows 243 nurses based offshore were approved for registration in New Zealand, subject to them successfully completing their CAP course.

I note that this figure has trended up significantly since May of this year, and is over double that month’s figure of 105 nurses. Immigration New Zealand have completed 5,452 job checks and approved 480 work visas for nurses since the introduction of the AEWV—a proportion of which will be for some of over 1,200 nurses based offshore approved for registration in New Zealand since May of this year, subject to them successfully completing the CAP course. In the end, it doesn’t actually matter which visa nurses from overseas have come to New Zealand in; it matters how many we’re getting here registered, and the trend there is positive.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can he confirm, then, in light of that answer, that in October the number of nurses applying to come to New Zealand under a visitor visa to do their CAP course was zero?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I wouldn’t have confidence in the member’s figures; in fact, in the month of October, the number of CAP nurses receiving registration from outside of New Zealand was 243. In terms of the total number of CAP nurses from outside of New Zealand, in the May to July quarter there were 390 who were registered by the Nursing Council; that increased to 854 in the three months from August to October.

💬 Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Do your maths.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can I have another supplementary for that?

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah. Interjections while member’s asking questions: out of order.

💬 Erica Stanford: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Could I ask the very generous Speaker to give me another supplementary question for that interjection?

💬 SPEAKER: I’ll see how this one goes first.

💬 Erica Stanford: OK, thank you. Why is the Minister referring to Nursing Council data rather than his own data of nurses applying for visas that he provided to me in written parliamentary question 40233 that shows only five nurses in September applied for a visitor visa to come to New Zealand to undertake a CAP course?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Because I’m giving an accurate number about the number of nurses from offshore who are registered to work in New Zealand. To give the full picture of that, I can perhaps quote from the number of internationally qualified nurses who have been registered in New Zealand over the course of this year, which include those coming in through the CAP programme, and include those who are offered direct registration from overseas. In the February to April quarter, that was 750; it grew to 1,125 in the May to July quarter, and then grew to 1,655 in the August to October quarter. We are making real progress, no matter how much the member tries to play with numbers to draw the opposite conclusions.

💬 SPEAKER: Go on, then.

💬 Erica Stanford: Why, when official advice from Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) in February stated that a fast track to residence could lead to “rapid growth of the migrant nursing workforce” did he not put nurses on this immediate pathway to encourage this rapid growth, given that we are 4,000 nurses short?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Over the course of question time today, at various times the Opposition has asked that the Government do exactly what officials advised and then at other times they have implied that we should ignore the advice of officials. The reality is that the Government receives advice from officials and receives advice from sectors and then makes balanced decisions. We have, in fact, created a fast-track residency programme for nurses, which enables them to receive residency after two years in New Zealand—that is a more generous pathway than ever existed under the previous National Government—for all 13 occupational categories of nurses and, as I have just demonstrated, in every quarter of this year the number of internationally qualified nurses being registered in New Zealand has increased.

Question No. 11—Agriculture

11. to the Minister of Agriculture: Does she stand by the statement the Minister of Agriculture made in relation to the Government’s agricultural emissions pricing proposals, “we’ve set a target of 10 percent reduction in methane by 2030. I think that is quite achievable with the existing technologies”; if so, how many of those existing technologies are currently commercially available within New Zealand?

In response to the first part of the question, yes, in the full context the statement was given. I stand by a 10 percent reduction in methane by 2030 being achievable through existing technology with some incentives from pricing. In terms of the second part of the question, specific mitigation technologies commercially available now include low-methane sheep genetics, the effluent pond treatment technology EcoPond, and urease inhibitor - coated urea. We believe technology, along with incentives from pricing, will contribute significantly to meeting the legislated target of a 10 percent reduction in biogenic methane from 2017 levels by 2030. This work is not finalised, and we are currently in consultation with industry and are focused on working alongside farmers in this regard.

💬 Mark Cameron: Can the Minister guarantee that these technologies will allow farmers to reduce emissions sufficient to avoid net revenue losses of 18 to 24 percent for sheep and beef and 6 to 7 percent for dairy, as outlined on page 60 of the Government’s pricing agricultural emissions consultation document?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: The figures modelled in the discussion document are based on a wide range of assumptions, such as prices for emissions, the efficacy cost, and the availability of mitigation technologies and agriculture commodity prices. Production is not productivity. We have not made any decisions and Ministers will be reviewing submissions on the proposals and taking advice from officials.

💬 Mark Cameron: Is it fair that the Government will generate an estimated $140 million annual surplus from farmers when the Government’s own consultation document shows that 65 percent of agricultural emission reductions will be leaked offshore to higher-emitting competitors who are not priced on their emissions?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: In the many recommendations that our partners presented this Government, the ring-fencing of the levies to put back into technology was one of the very things that this Government has agreed to.

💬 Mark Cameron: How can the Minister guarantee farmer compliance with any agricultural emissions pricing set by this Government, considering that Federated Farmers, Beef + Lamb New Zealand, Dairy New Zealand, and Groundswell do not accept the Government’s proposals?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: That’s not accurate. In the proposal presented, by majority the Government has accepted on behalf of the partners that have sat around the He Waka Eke Noa table. What we are getting out for consultation is seeking the views of farmers up and down the country on the two key issues around sequestration and pricing of emissions, and I welcome those that are joining in to put the submission in.

Question No. 12—Trade and Export Growth

12. to the Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth: What recent announcement has he made regarding the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand free trade agreement?

On Sunday, the Prime Minister and I announced the conclusion of negotiations on an upgrade to the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand free trade agreement, known as ANZFTA. This free-trade agreement (FTA) has been instrumental in growing our trade with South-east Asia over the last decade. We now trade more with ASEAN in a week than we did in a year in the 1970s, and the upgrade will provide our businesses with even greater opportunity.

💬 Helen White: What is the significance of the announcement?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, ASEAN, as a block, is New Zealand’s third-largest trading partner, and in 2021 alone, New Zealand exported more than $7 billion of goods and services to the 10 ASEAN countries—that’s almost 10 percent of our exports. The significance, though, of the upgrade goes beyond trade. It reflects the strength of our partnership with ASEAN, which is more important than ever at a time of global insecurity.

💬 Helen White: What are the benefits for New Zealand?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, the deal will reduce compliance costs and cut red tape, supporting our businesses to be more competitive in one of the world’s biggest markets. It provides more certainty and transparency for exporters, service providers, and investors; streamlined customs procedures; and stronger e-commerce rules. The upgrade also introduces a framework for cooperation on sustainable trade issues, including the environment, labour standards, and women’s economic empowerment—the first time in an ASEAN trade agreement.

💬 Helen White: Why are free-trade agreements like the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand free trade agreement such a priority in the Government’s economic plan?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Since coming to office, our Government has signed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership and FTAs with the UK and the European Union, we’ve signed the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership covering one third of the global economy, and we’ve upgraded the China FTA and, now, our ASEAN FTA. As the world feels the impact of global economic pressures, securing these high-quality, modern free-trade agreements is essential to the economic recovery.