Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill

on behalf of the Minister of Justice: I present a legislative statement on the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill.

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.

I move, That the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill be now read a second time.

This bill responds to concerns raised in recent years by the Electoral Commission and Māori about constraints on the right of Māori voters to choose between the general roll and the Māori roll. This bill is an omnibus bill. It makes amendments to the Electoral Act 1993 and the Local Electoral Act 2001 to reflect the changes made to the Electoral Act and, subsequently, changes to the Bay of Plenty Regional Council (Māori Constituency Empowering) Act 2001, which are necessary to retain consistency with the Local Electoral Act.

The bill supports Māori electoral participation by replacing the current four-month period every four to six years, where Māori voters can choose to move between the general and Māori electoral rolls, with a continuous option. The continuous option as currently drafted will allow Māori voters to change rolls at any time except when residing in an electorate where there is a parliamentary by-election and the by-election does not coincide with the local body election.

The bill makes a consequential change to how the Māori electoral population, and by extension the number of Māori seats, is calculated. The Māori electoral population will be calculated based on numbers as at census day, or, where the census and general election are in the same year, 1 April in the following year. This is defined as “counting day” in the bill. This change requires some minor amendments to reserve provisions of the Electoral Act; in particular, section 35 relating to boundary reviews. The continuous option cannot be introduced without such a change. While the intention of these provisions is retained, the fact that section 35 is a reserved provision means that it can only be amended with the support of 75 percent of the House.

I first want to thank the Justice Committee for its consideration of the bill and those members of the public who made submissions. The committee received 121 submissions. Submitters overwhelmingly responded that the current Māori electoral option creates barriers to Māori participation in the electoral process. This is because Māori are unable to change the electoral roll they are on to reflect their electoral preferences outside of a very narrow and seemingly arbitrary four-month period every five or six years. The committee heard repeatedly that the current arrangements are unjustified, unfair, and often difficult to understand. Many submitters also thought the bill supports the Crown to better meet its obligations to Māori under Te Tiriti, including at local government level where I was encouraged that there was strong support for the bill from local government organisations.

The committee has recommended several minor and technical changes to the bill that help clarify its intended effect. Firstly, the committee has recommended that clause 15 of the bill is deleted. This clause duplicates existing provisions that allow voters who qualify as electors but are not entered on the roll to vote via special vote.

A second recommendation relates to ensuring that the integrity of the rolls is maintained in the event that a by-election coincides with a triennial local election. The committee has recommended that new section 78A, inserted by clause 6 of the bill, is amended to ensure that it is consistent with the requirement that the Electoral Commission does not amend the roll at any time between the day after polling day and the day the writ is returned.

The committee has also recommended amending the definition of “election period” in proposed new section 78A and inserting a definition for “local election period”. Under the proposed amendments, the election period would end on polling day for by-elections. For local triennial elections, it would begin when a notice of the triennial election is published under the Local Electoral Act and would end on polling day. The committee considered that these amendments would help the Electoral Commission to implement the new section.

The final proposal for amendment relates to the definition of “Māori electoral population”. The committee has recommended clauses 4 and 14 are amended to clarify that the definition of “Māori electoral population” for both the Electoral Act and the Local Electoral Act refers to voters registered for either Māori or general electoral districts and persons named on the dormant roll.

We know that approximately 6,000 Māori ask to change rolls in a non-election year and over 22,000 people tried to change rolls in 2020. Ngā Rangahautira, the Māori Law Students’ Association of Victoria University, stated in their submission to the committee, echoing the concerns of many other submitters, that they have “heard from numerous tauira who turned 18 just after the last electoral option in 2018 and enrolled on the general roll ( … without realising the difference), they are unable to switch rolls until 2024, and therefore unable to vote on that roll until 2026.” Let us not make Māori wait until the 2026 election to exercise their vote on their preferred roll.

I wish to thank the committee again for their work. I look forward to our deliberations at the committee of the whole House. Wherever possible, changes to voting systems should be taken forward with as much cross-party support as possible, and in that spirit, I look forward to continuing to work with the members of the Opposition during the remaining parliamentary stages for this bill. I commend this bill to the House.

The question is that the motion be agreed to.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The National Party at the first reading did not support this legislation. We weren’t opposed to the idea of having greater flexibility around switching between rolls but we were concerned about the way that it had been put together—that the bill as introduced included an exclusion around by-election periods to stop what the Minister of Justice referred to as “tactical roll switching”, switching between the general roll and the Māori roll, or vice versa, in order to vote in a by-election. And the point that we made during the select committee process was that that same logic applied when it comes to general elections, and you’d have a situation where one group of New Zealanders would have an opportunity at each given election to choose which roll was the most likely to have the most effect and switch during the election period to do that, which we didn’t think was appropriate. So we argued for a three-month exclusion around that.

We’ve been in conversations with the Minister around this, and the Minister herself in the speech referred to the fact that this bill will require 75 percent of Parliament to support it, and so I think the Government has been more willing than usual to listen to our concerns. It’s our understanding that at the next stage of the committee of the whole House, the Government intends to bring in a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) allowing for that exclusion around the general election time and around local body election time. So we’re signalling here at the second meeting that if indeed that is the case, then we will, on this side, support the bill. So that would be a rare occasion where there has been a willingness on the side of the Government to listen to our concerns. And so we’re looking forward to that stage and we will, in the spirit of bipartisanship and good faith, support it at this stage as well, in anticipation of the amendments outlined by the Minister. Because we all want to ensure that New Zealanders engage in the electoral process, but we also want to ensure that people support the process and are treated in the same way.

So if you have that exclusion around the hurly burly of the election period and you think of the example if you’re in a particular general ward which is looking very close, it might make sense to switch between rolls to vote in the last month in that electorate, or vice versa. And the Māori electorate, if that is looking very close—you know, we didn’t think it’s appropriate to be able to switch between those rolls in that three-month period leading up to an election. So with that excluded then it does provide the opportunity for people to be able to move between the rolls a bit more freely than once every five years, or four to six years, as is currently implied.

Now, the Minister in her speech did refer to the desirability of broad support for electoral law changes, and I suppose the only point I’d make in that regard is that, unfortunately, the Minister and the Government have been inconsistent on that matter because there are other electoral bills before the House which the National Party opposes stridently, particularly around electoral financing and reducing thresholds that we feel is skewing the system in favour of some parties and against other parties. We’ve made that very clear and the Government hasn’t listened in that case and are prepared to push things through in advance of an independent, broader reconsideration of electoral laws that is supposed to be carrying on. So that’s supposed to be considering New Zealand’s electoral laws and reporting after the election. But in the meantime, the Government is pushing ahead with some rapid changes that will change the electoral financing bills. And the issue there, of course, is, fundamentally, when you strip it all away, do you want people to voluntarily fund political parties, or do you want the taxpayer to fund political parties? We believe firmly in people voluntarily funding political parties rather than the taxpayer being forced to do it, and I think most New Zealanders agree with that proposition.

So on that issue, unfortunately, there hasn’t been an attempt to bring bipartisanship across the House, and we lament that. We do suggest that the Government looks into itself and reflects on what they’ve done here today and what we’ve agreed to here today in terms of agreeing to legislation that we had concerns about. We raised our significant concerns with the Government—the Government has responded to them to a degree, and we’ve been prepared on that basis to make the change. So we hope that this will give many people across the country the opportunity to choose between the rolls.

I suppose the only point I’d make in finishing is the great importance of maintaining trust and confidence in our electoral system. We look around the world and electoral processes are being challenged in many places. One of the great strengths of this country is the high degree of confidence that New Zealanders have in the way that the electoral system works. But we should never take that for granted and we should be eternally vigilant in defending that, defending the robustness of our processes. The best way to do that is to have a degree of broad support across the House for changes that are made. We’ve observed that in the breach, sadly, when it comes to some elements of that, and I lament that. So I encourage the Minister, Kiritapu Allan, when she considers any further changes in this area, that she adopts that broad approach when considering significant change. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

On the basis of the undertakings given to us to bring in SOPs amending the bill that we have before us right now, National will be supporting this legislation further on.

Well, there’s a nice surprise. That was quite lovely. Thank you to Mr Goldsmith. The timing of the Māori electoral option creates a real barrier to voters. So it’s great to have general consensus on the passageway forward for this piece of legislation.

I believe, wherever possible, changes to the voting system should be done in a bipartisan manner, and the Government continues to work in that way, so the fact that there have been good-faith discussions across this House and we’re able to make amendments to the bill in order for it to be agreed upon is a good thing—not only for the members in this House but also for democracy in wider New Zealand. This, I believe, is necessary for this bill because it’s important that we promote the ability to vote and make that as easy as possible. We know that this bill will remove a barrier, which allows Māori voters to change rolls more regularly. We know it does happen every election and we know many people try to do so and are prevented from being able to do it. So the fewer the barriers the more we can participate and the stronger our democracy.

As we’ve heard from Mr Goldsmith, there is potentially a requirement, depending on the Speaker’s ruling, that a 75 percent majority may be required to progress this bill through the committee of the whole House, and with that change to put in that three-month buffer—already, we discussed that for a by-election—but to include that for a general election as well; it’s good to see there’s support across the House.

So, as this bill is currently drafted, it will let Māori voters change rolls up to any time, but now, with the Supplementary Order Paper that will be introduced, excluding a buffer of that three-month period. Māori voters will not be able to change between the Māori and the general rolls; already it’s specified during a by-election if that change replaced the vote in the electorate where a by-election is occurring. It also makes changes around how the Māori electoral population is calculated under the Act for electoral boundary review purposes, and it also makes changes that may result from cross-party discussions prior to the committee, which we’ve discussed just now.

So, overall, I think it’s important to note that this bill fits with our larger plan. It’s part of our commitment to continue to protect the integrity of New Zealand’s elections and voters’ access to the polls. And that’s a wider review of legislation. That’s including the financial rules, and it’s also part of the two-track process—that we’ve got a whole range of areas being looked at as part of that independent review panel that has been established. The fact that we’ve got some changes happening before the election and also some longer-term ones shows that we’re a Government committed to always looking at how our electoral rules are operating, trying to make sure we are doing those with consensus as much as we possibly can, and making voting and access to voting easy for every New Zealander.

It was really good to hear the submissions that we heard at select committee. There were some interesting discussions had at that committee process, and I believe that the changes that we have made have strengthened the bill. I’m looking forward to this bill passing, and I’d like to acknowledge the members opposite for supporting this bill, to be supported right across the House. I commend it to the House, Madam Speaker.

Obviously, second reading of this Electoral (Māori by-election Electoral Option) Legislation Bill, and, look, pleased as we’ve now heard—which of course is no surprise to me, but perhaps to the House—that National is supporting this, and I think it’s important to tease out a little bit of the why at this stage and then extrapolate some wider lessons.

The fundamental reason that National’s now comfortable with supporting this bill is that there’s a time out, or a window, if you will, of three months before general elections and by-elections to move between rolls. And why I want to stress that, from the outset, is National from day one has been happy with the idea, the concept—particularly with Māori—to be able to move between rolls. We can see—even I can see—that the current system is too tight. Where we ran into issues very early on, and why initial support was not forthcoming, was not the concept of changing rolls but, we felt, the law at that stage—and arguably, too, at this stage, still—seemed to be first and foremost arbitrary, that one could change rolls up to three months for a by-election. But this current draft legislation bill would have allowed, and actually still allows, for people to change between the general and the Māori roll, or the Māori to the general roll, right up to election day. We thought that was very inconsistent.

Why I stress that this is still the current legislation is that we are awaiting, I believe, the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to be tabled from the Minister, and I have absolute faith, 99.999-recurring faith, that that SOP will be forthcoming. But I think it’s important to put the proviso out there, in words, that that SOP—written to our satisfaction—is what’s going to require our support. Because as has also been rightly noted, this is an electoral amendment bill; it requires 75 percent support of the House, and in this case it requires the support of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition. As I say, we are happy to give that support, contingent on an SOP touching on that issue of three months.

So just stepping back for a moment, we completely understand, as I say, the reason why we should be able to have some movement—some movement—across the rolls. The current law in New Zealand, as it stands, is that every five years we have a census. On that basis, we work out electorate size, including with our Māori seats, and then there is a four-month window from that moment for people to decide whether they wish to be on the Māori roll or not. As one example of that, there are some in my family who have chosen—sorry, on my wife’s side, not myself. I’m stuck on the general roll. We Irish are stuck when it comes to New Zealand’s roll system. But for my wife’s family and my step-kids, they can make their choice, and some are on the general roll and some are on the Māori roll, which makes life a little bit interesting at election time because some of my step-kids vote for me and some don’t. But I want to make it very clear for people on Hansard and others it’s because—

💬 Todd Muller: How do you know they vote for you?

Well, look, there’s a whole range of issues that are now being—I might have to almost make a personal statement.

💬 Todd Muller: I don’t know if they do vote for you.

We have dissension developing here around whether my family’s telling me the truth or not. But I have absolute confidence. But look, there was only a four-month window for people to make their mind up, and, actually, humans being what we are, we make decisions at different times and at different stages of life. So if someone is wanting to move between the rolls we are very happy, or content, or “accepting” is maybe the better word. We are accepting of that, but it really must come with that proviso that one cannot move between rolls three months before a by-election and three months before a general election. And again, that was probably the primary sticking point for this side of the House; that for some reason that I don’t completely understand, it seems logically inconsistent, that according to this legislation you were not allowed to move rolls three months before a by-election but you could still with a general election. That just doesn’t make sense because as has been noted by at least one previous speaker and I’m sure it will be echoed by others, we don’t want to see any gaming of the political system.

Put simply, we do not want to see people jumping between the general roll and the Māori roll, or the Māori roll to the general roll, to try and develop some sort of electoral advantage. And look, that would have to be relatively orchestrated but we do know when it comes to elections there’s always bellwether seats, there’s always very tight races where the influx of 100, 200, 1,000 people, whatever number you wish to use, could actually sway the vote. We don’t want to see that because, first and foremost, that would skew, I would argue, the election result. But secondly, it would also undermine some of our most basics around democracy and, certainly, people’s faith in it. If New Zealanders were to see large numbers of people moving rolls simply to maximise a party’s political advantage, I think that’s damaging to all of us.

The bill, at the moment, is still not amended, or, rather, the select committee has made some changes, and, actually, can I acknowledge Ginny Andersen, the chair, and all the members who have worked through this. It’s been an important piece of work.

So we wait for that SOP that’s going to be quite critical. One thing I would like to see—and I don’t think it’s within the bill, but even without the bill having it in there we will need to monitor how this operates. I think it will be very interesting to see over the coming three, six, nine years how many people choose to move rolls and also how frequently. I think that will be something important that the Electoral Commission—but also this Parliament—looks at, to make sure that we have confidence that the moving about is being done because of someone’s identification, if you will, rather than any other motives.

The other part that we do need to signal is that this is sitting within a wider array of electoral changes that this Government is doing. We on this side of the House have serious reservations around the push towards State funding. We have concerns about limiting democratic participatory activity, be that from donation through to actually being able to speak one’s mind. We just need to be clear to the Government of the day that electoral law needs to be done in such a way that has the Opposition and the Government in lock step together, not simply for the sake of this Parliament but that the New Zealand public can have faith in what’s happening.

So, as I say, pleased to support this at second reading on the proviso that an SOP lands on that table making it abundantly clear that the three-month closed window for changing the roll applies to by-elections and to general elections.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This bill here fits into the 2020 manifesto of the New Zealand Labour Party: to continue to protect the integrity of our election system, to make sure that our voters continually have access to the polls, and to do a review of the electoral financing rules, as well. The previous speaker spoke about a couple of those changes. The one before us right now, which is most important, is making sure that we have a legislation which is fit for purpose in time for next year’s general election.

I want to thank the Minister Kiritapu Allan for bringing this to the House and also to the Justice Committee and also the chair of the Justice Committee, Ginny Andersen, for traversing through the many submissions that came in from around the country. Lots of people have lots of opinions on this, and it’s really important that they were able to listen to that diverse range of opinions—both the people that were for it and the people that were against it, as well.

In 2020—again, a previous speaker mentioned it—24,000 Māori tried to change rolls, and they couldn’t because they were prevented by the rules. What rule is that? The rule that only four months every five years do Māori get to decide which electoral roll they’d like to be on. Some that are switched on, they manage to make that. Some that are busy out there feeding the kids and going to work, they don’t catch that. So I’ve borne the brunt of many a Māori voter in my time here in this House who have been frustrated by the process—frustrated at the fact that they haven’t been able to change rolls as often as they would like to.

Why do people change rolls? For many different reasons: sometimes it’s got to do with the candidates, sometimes it’s got to do with the political feel of the day. More importantly, it was the submission from Local Government New Zealand that pointed out that, actually, with the changes that we made last year to Māori wards to enable local councils to be able to establish Māori wards in a meaningful way, it now means that those Māori ward councillors or candidates can only be voted on by people that are on the Māori roll.

So it’s given it a new meaning, and we heard that through the submissions process, too; that, actually, the Māori roll had just been the domain of us here in central government, but, actually, local government now sees the importance of being able to assist voters that want to determine which roll they would like to be on. I know for many of my family, they choose to be on the Māori roll because it’s where they feel that they can have that guaranteed representation and they’re elated at the fact that they can have that now at a local government level, too.

Because of that, we now have 35 councils, territorial and local, all around the country and 66 Māori ward councillors spread out all across Aotearoa from Te Rerenga Wairua all the way down to the Bluff. It’s really important to note that the only reason, the only way, that we can get that representation around those tables is to make sure that we’ve got Māori who are on the Māori roll that can elect Māori ward councillors.

This is a really important piece of legislation. I’m glad it’s come before the House like this. I look forward to progressing it through to its final destination so that we can actually head back out there into our communities and tell our Māori communities that, actually, whichever roll they choose to be on, that’s their right—remembering that it was actually this House that imposed the whole system on the country back in the day. Actually, they decided that it was going to be a way for Māori to be able to have that guaranteed representation.

So Māori, beforehand, were shepherded into these Māori seats, but now, actually, many see it as the way to be able to ensure that they have guaranteed representation for kaupapa Māori, for whakaaro Māori, for those issues which dominate the kōrero around marae kitchen tables all around Aotearoa. So I look forward to this reaching its final destination, I’m in complete support of it, and I commend it to the House.

The Greens of course support this, the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill, given that this bill gives Māori the ability to change roll types at any time—except, of course, when a by-election is held. This particular goal has long been a Green Party policy, it is part of my colleague Golriz Ghahraman’s Electoral (Strengthening Democracy) Amendment Bill, and so we’re really pleased to see this come before us, and acknowledging my colleague Rawiri Waititi’s bill that has also recently been drawn.

I mean, we’ve heard some stories in here about how important it is for Māori to have always had that choice. And I did just want to put on the Hansard, from the Greens’ perspective, that it was the Electoral Commission’s report on the 2017 general election that recommended “that voters of Māori descent be able to change roll type at any time as this would better meet the needs of Māori voters.” And my colleague Mr Coffey just gave us one example of many, many, many stories that highlighted the flaw of not enabling that mana motuhake for Māori voters to be able to choose and switch those rolls, not just bound to particular time frames in the electoral cycle.

So this bill clarifies that changing that roll type—you know, with the checks there—may also be exercised by special vote under the Electoral Act, and that means that Māori can change rolls on the day that they vote if they get to the voting place and realise they are on the wrong roll. And this is exactly what we heard—my colleague here, Rawiri Waititi, is shaking his head in agreement. We were receiving stories of exactly that situation happening all around the motu.

So I’m really pleased to see us improve our access to democratic processes, including in cleaning this part of the legislation up. This is just common sense and something that is long overdue. I’m proud to stand and give a short speech from the Green Party supporting this bill today. I commend this bill to the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I stand on behalf of ACT to speak to the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill. We said in our first reading speech that we were not in support of this bill, even though we recognise the need to be more flexible around the way that Māori can change electoral rolls. While we do recognise this and we want to be able to support it, we do not believe that being able to change whenever you want through cycle is adequate, and, therefore, we will continue to oppose this bill.

Now, listening to earlier speeches, I hear from across the House that there is a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that’s coming that may actually address this issue. But, in actual fact, the conversation was not had with all of the parties across this House, so because we are not in knowledge of what is proposed to be on the SOP, we are not in a position to change our position on this bill, and even so, we would like to see what that SOP actually states before we decide whether or not to support it. Hearing about it today is unfortunate. You would think, once there is discussion being held about such an important piece of legislation, that, in fact, everybody would be involved in that discussion.

I thought that it was actually really quite confusing for some to find out what is the problem here that’s trying to be addressed, and I thought I would try and make it as plain English as possible—plain language as possible—because it is quite difficult for some to understand how the process works and why it is impractical and inflexible the way that it is. Of course, what usually happens is that every five years we have a census, and after the census there is a four-month period where Māori can either go on to the Māori electoral roll or go on to the general roll. It’s only a very small area of time—four months—and it must only occur, at this present stage, straight after the census. The commission then sends the rolls to the Government Statistician after that period and the Government Statistician then sends data from this on to the electorates, and the commission, then having received this data back, makes up the electorates.

This is why it is so fundamental to make sure that there is 75 percent agreement across the House when we start to look at making changes such as this, because it’s entrenchment, really, that we have within our electoral system to ensure that there is no playing of it by one political party of the day. It stops a majority Government, for example, from trying to rig anything in their own advantage.

So we believe that there is the ability to change and be able to support this bill, and that is based upon the lines of being able to ensure that when Māori make a change, they make that change for a three-year period. That then encompasses the local body elections, and it encompasses the by-elections and the move into the general election. Effectively, what it says is that if we can make that decision for that general election period, then we should do so for the three years—put both feet in the water and stick to it. But we do recognise that five years is just impractical, and it’s not good for anybody to be stuck into a system that they cannot get out of.

So if we were able to change once every three years, heading into the electoral cycle, then we could look to support this. However, we have not seen the SOP and we have not been part of any discussions across the House as to potential changes to enable parties like ACT to support it. So at this stage, on the second reading and until we see that SOP, as I said, we cannot support it.

I just want to make mention about some of the submissions that came in, including one from the Wairoa District Council. They had concerns about administration work that would be incumbent upon them, should they get multiple people trying to change multiple times throughout their electorate. The commission had said that they did not believe that that would be a problem. However, the council identified that their grassroots would be the ones having to deal with it, and this is part of the reason why we support the change, but only once every three years.

So on that note, I will just say that we look forward to seeing the SOP. We hope that it will reflect what we would like to see, as well, so that we too would be able to support, going into the third reading. But until then, our minds are quite firm: we do not support this bill at this stage in its current format. Thank you.

Tēnā koe, Madam Speaker. It’s a real privilege to speak on the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill. This is something which has been, for a very long time, important for Māori and our country, and it has restricted the ability to participate in elections in the way that people from my community would want to. So I want to thank Minister Allan for landing what I consider to be a very carefully balanced approach to solving this problem. But, look, I also want to thank Nicole McKee, who spoke before me, for her engagement in this process and the select committee. I really do value that member’s contributions around the table in what has been a very cross-partisan discussion. I also want to thank the member Rawiri Waititi for his continued advocacy around what has been an important issue for him and the people he represents, and I thank him for the member’s bill which he presented on this issue, which we have also spoken about.

This bill was, as I said, a finely balanced and carefully thought through way of approaching this problem. It also touches on a number of different pieces of legislation. As a committee member of the Justice Committee that considered this, it’s been very useful for us to have the full suite of advice on this that you get with a Government bill, because it is an omnibus bill which seeks to amend both the Electoral Act 1993 and the Local Electoral Act 2001, and the Bay of Plenty Regional Council (Maori Constituency Empowering) Act. It also may or may not engage the provisions for a 75 percent vote in the House, which has caused much discussion around the committee table, and so it has been very useful for the Ministers who have been guiding that process and discussions around this House outside of the committee.

Without taking a very long call, I just want to address, you know, this worry that has been echoed around the House about how switching rolls might skew the system—it’s just not the reality that I have seen. I am very privileged to represent the electorate of Manurewa, and, in turn, my colleague Peeni Henare represents the electorate of Tāmaki Makaurau—those two are overlapping. I live right in the heart of Manurewa, but I am a constituent of Peeni Henare. In the time that I’ve been organising for the Labour Party in Tāmaki Makaurau since I was a 15-year-old, I’ve been out door knocking with people and the main issue that’s really hard to get over the line with people is that they are in fact enrolled at all. It takes a great deal of effort to talk to people about their enrolments and to motivate them to exercise their democratic right to participate in our process. And the suggestion that there will be sort of mass skewing of the vote by organising around switching of rolls is simply far from the reality that I’ve experienced in that time that I have been organising in this space and encouraging people to sign up and have their say.

It’s also not borne out by the data collected by the Electoral Commission. They found that in the lead up to the 2020 general election, 24,000 voters wanted to switch and couldn’t. That was not an election that was characterised by any sort of tactics required to switch between rolls. It was simply people who got their voting papers and realised that they weren’t on the roll that they thought they were and sought to make that change. So being able to empower those 24,000 people in the next election to be able to make that important choice for themselves is something I’m really proud of doing.

I could talk much more about how this fits into our larger plan. And I want to work with the Opposition members around this House on improving our electoral system as we go forward. I thank the Justice Committee for its part in doing that, and I commend this bill to the House.

The next call is a split call—I call on Sam Uffindell for five minutes.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It’s a pleasure to be able to rise and speak on this bill. I note that we are supporting this, so it’s great to have bipartisan support on what is a significant electoral change. Before I even joined Parliament, it is something that I had heard concerns about, and they were raised by my brother-in-law. He has Māori ancestry and is on the Māori roll and he wanted to move on to the general roll but he didn’t have that flexibility. He was asking me because he knew I was a member of the National Party and was interested in politics, as I was at the time—helping out my colleague behind me in the Bay of Plenty. He said, “How do I move from the Māori roll over to the general roll?” I think he wanted to have a chance to vote in the East Coast and take down the current justice Minister but it didn’t quite work out that way. Anyway, he didn’t get that opportunity because the opportunity wasn’t available. To have this option available is fantastic. This flexibility is really good, because I know Matthew, who’s probably not at home buckling into Parliament TV at the moment—

💬 Hon Member: You never know.

—you never know—will have that opportunity, and he will be no doubt moving to the East Coast electorate to vote in the upcoming general election next year.

But moving away from my anecdotal story—I know it’s interesting; other people are probably drying up a bit now.

💬 Matt Doocey: No. Keep going.

No, we still have some support in the back rows. Fantastic. Very good. I do want to talk about how this bill is good, because what we do want to do is increase participation. That’s a fundamental part of a democracy—making it easy for people to be involved and participate. As the National Party would know, if anyone was here for the Fair Pay Agreements Bill, we do support flexibility and choice, and this is a bill that will further that.

I would also probably take a little bit of exception to what my colleague across the way mentioned before around not giving rise to potential—well, you call it tactical changes so as to influence an outcome. I would say that you probably could do that, because if I was a voter and I was voting in a safe seat but I had the option of switching into a marginal seat, then I would probably be politically active enough to do that. And I would say that there are probably quite a few other people in this House who would do that. I see my colleague Erica Stanford nodding away there. So I think the point the member across the House raised is probably not an accurate one. It’s one that she may perceive, and people probably wouldn’t think that way or they wouldn’t be so suspicious as to be as tactical as that. She may have been tactical in her time in her electorate—I don’t know. But I do think that this does close that down.

Also, the five-year provision after a census—I mean, who even engaged? Did many people even engage in the census last time? I’m not sure everyone even got their forms. But I think—

💬 Anna Lorck: Everyone should. We should be encouraging people.

We should be encouraging people, and I have met with my local census officer, so you will be happy to know that. But I am happy that there is bipartisan agreement on this bill, because it is something that we need have on major pieces of legislation like this. So I do want to commend the Government for listening to our comments. [Interruption] I never knew I’d get heckled by my own side of the House.

If I am going to be critical I’d say the Government probably should have listened to us before the bill went to the select committee, but that didn’t happen. But we did finally get there, and we do have bipartisan agreement, and we do have the 75 percent that we need. So on that note—

💬 Matt Doocey: Keep going.

I’m looking at my colleagues in the background. They’re egging me on. They don’t want to talk before dinner. I see that Rawiri also wants to have a crack. I’m sure Rawiri won’t be switching. He’ll probably be going again in his seat, and good on him. I may actually get my wife and my extended family on her side to switch and vote against Rawiri. I don’t know where Tāmati is at the moment, but, anyway, we will consider that.

Well done to everyone for getting on board with this. We got the 75 percent and I commend this bill to the House.

Wow, we finally got to the end of that one! Anyway, nice to take a call on this. As we said at the first reading—is that because this has a lot in common with the bill that I put in, we will support this bill, and my plea to the Labour Government and also to Kiritapu Allan, who I mihi to for this, is that will they do the same when mine comes up tomorrow? Because it goes both ways, that support for this particular kaupapa. If we’re driven by the kaupapa, I think we’re able to support both, or all of the bills, because I also know that the Greens also have a bill that’s similar, although mine is a little bit more tight-packed in regards to giving our Māori a fairer shot at the elections.

I’m hearing a lot around the ability to change at any time and that there should be a time frame on that. You know, these elections were built on those who actually owned homes. So those who own homes—and by “own homes”, I mean plural—in different areas already get the opportunity to skewer the system. So that already happens in a by-election. If we’re really, really serious about ensuring that we tighten up on our electoral system, we would ensure that those people who own a home in Auckland and also own a home in Tauranga are not able to jump into Tauranga to skewer a by-election there. So these are some of the things that we need to consider, I think, when we’re tightening this election, because it’s already happening. Those opportunities for people to be able to change addresses to allow them to vote in different elections and in different electorates—for local government and for central government—are already happening.

So I’m just going to take a short call. Mine is, we’re going to support this bill because we want what we all want: for the ability for Māori to be able to participate fairly in our electoral system. The other one is that the other wero is to the other parties, and I’m going to take National off the list because what I’ve heard is that there’s an opportunity here for National to support this bill with that Supplementary Order Paper saying within a six-month period, you can’t jump on and off before any election—which I find quite reasonable. I think that’s a reasonable thing to ask for, to stop that. But we must also look at tightening the electoral law so people who have addresses across the country can’t skew elections, because that’s already happening; we know that—we know that.

My other wero is to ACT, who have so far refused to support these bills. You know, if you’re going to stand people in those Māori electorates, like National are committing in the next one, these types of electoral changes will not just benefit Māori the voter but also Māori the candidate, Māori who are standing in those particular elections—but I don’t know to what extent coming to the national elections in 2023.

Anyway, koinā noa iho [that’s all]. That was a very, very short call. We’re going to support this bill. I’m hoping that Labour, National, Greens, and ACT will also support ours to ensure that we tighten up the other parts of the electoral law. That bill will be coming up tomorrow; hopefully, it’s not squeezed out by a whole lot of other member’s bills—you fellas are going to prioritise it, eh Goldie? So we look forward to that debate as well, because we’ve waited far too long. Over the last two members’ days, we’ve been squeezed out right until 10 o’clock and missed. Anyway, that’s me. We will support this bill; I look forward to you all supporting ours. Ngā mihi nui ki a tātou, kia ora tātou.

Thank you and kia ora, Madam Speaker. It’s always wonderful to see cross-party support of important issues like electoral matters. I just wanted to acknowledge my colleague across the floor Rawiri Waititi for his work on his member’s bill which is coming up tomorrow, but actually also for his insightful comments just now. It is important that we’re always—cross-party—looking to identify measures within our electoral system that need discussion and, potentially, maturing and evolution. So looking forward to having those conversations and for this bill going into committee stage as it goes through the next phase.

I was a member of the Justice Committee who considered this bill, and before it went into select committee I read the 2017 Electoral Commission report which highlighted this very issue and spoke of, as a number of people have referred to, the fact that 6,000 voters each year attempt to change electoral rolls. But in an election year, that number increases significantly to 19,000 people, and many of those people aren’t then able to change electoral rolls.

We did have over 120 submissions in relation to this bill. One of those was the Council for Civil Liberties, who made the case that when people aren’t permitted to change which roll they are on, it significantly decreases the likelihood that they will vote at all. There were a number of really insightful submissions that we received in that regard. We also received submissions from Local Government New Zealand, who said that: “Accurate and up to date electoral rolls are vital to achieving our vision for Aotearoa to be the most active and inclusive local democracy in the world.”

The last submission that I’d like to share—there were many that were fascinating—was one from Graeme Edgeler, who spoke about the reasons why people shift and want to change rolls. He said that he wasn’t always a supporter of allowing people to change rolls, but he changed his mind. And he said sometimes there are ideological changes in terms of why people decide they want to shift, and sometimes they’re just practical. He gave this example, he said: “someone of Ngāpuhi ancestry might have chosen to go on the Māori roll because being on that roll enables them to have a say in who represents the Ngāpuhi rohe in Parliament, through their vote in Te Tai Tokerau. But if they moved to Hamilton to live and work, they may consider it wrong that they would be voting to determine who would represent Māori who whakapapa to Waikato-Tainui and Ngāti Raukawa and the other iwi who have rohe within the boundaries of the Hauraki-Waikato electorate. Forcing this person, who chose to go on the Māori roll as an exercise honouring their whakapapa, to later vote in a way which may undermine their mana is wrong, and the law should not require it.”

There are very valid reasons why we’ve proposed these changes; there’s utility in them for a fair democracy for Aotearoa. I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise as the last speaker for the National Party, and have listened to the debates and contributions this afternoon from my parliamentary colleagues but also my National Party colleagues. Our lead, our spokesperson, for this, Paul Goldsmith, has signalled and indicated that the National Party, at the second reading, is supportive of this bill, and we await at the committee of the whole House the Supplementary Order Paper. Members of the public who are listening in: a Supplementary Order Paper is a further amendment to the bill after it has gone to the select committee, which was the Justice Committee, with this bill having been referred there on 30 June 2022, and after it’s been subjected to scrutiny from the public, listening to submissions, where there were some 121 submissions received from interested parties, individuals, and groups, with oral evidence heard from 13 submitters at hearings in Wellington and by video conference. The Justice Committee has filed a report back to this House with proposed amendments, as had been considered at select committee after submissions were heard from members of the public.

So a Supplementary Order Paper is indicative that at the committee of the whole House, which is the next phase after the second reading, which we’re at at this stage, before going to the third reading and consideration for determination of the bill being passed into law—the Supplementary Order Paper that my colleague Paul Goldsmith had referred to, after engagement with Minister Kiritapu Allan, Minister of Justice, is the concern that the National Party had about the continuous model for the changing of the roll from either Māori roll to general roll—that is, for Māori voters, those who are enrolled—or from the general roll to the Māori roll. What had been proposed and has been reported back to the House in the select committee report is an endorsement of the continuous model for the ability to change from one roll to the other for Māori voters, where those who are enrolled as Māori voters have a choice in the ability to choose and move between—that that continuous model would be right up to the point and the day of polling day, voting. So the National Party had expressed concerns about that. Other members in the House have spoken about and addressed that.

We recognise the importance of flexibility, and it seems that as a result of discussion appropriately held between the National Party with the justice spokesperson, Minister Kiritapu Allan, there is a recognition, and that recognition has been very much driven by the fact that there’s a 75 percent majority that must be secured from Parliament for any changes to this electoral law. So as a result of those considerations, negotiations, discussion, the Minister has indicated to the National Party being amenable to that, shifting from the continuous model up to at any time prior to an election except for three months before polling day, the ability to change rolls.

Now, I speak from experience here as a member of Parliament but also as an enrolled voter in 2017, and I don’t know if any of my other Māori parliamentary colleagues were in the situation that I was on polling day, and even before polling day, in 2017. I stood and was selected as the candidate for the Whanganui electorate and gained the confidence of the people to be voted in as Whanganui’s member of Parliament for Whanganui electorate on a general roll. The problem that I was personally confronted with was that I was on the Māori roll and I was unable to vote for myself. So I may have been one of the few members of this House who was captured in the position where I was not able to change from the Māori roll, which I was on, on to the general roll to be able to cast a vote in favour of myself.

💬 Simon O’Connor: That’s humility right there.

Picking up the compliment from my colleague in terms of humility, it was a fact of the situation that I was caught in, and many—well, I don’t know if any of my other parliamentary colleagues have had that personal experience, but, certainly, I have three adult children, and the most favourite child was my youngest daughter, who at the time was a first-time voter and was able to enrol on to the general roll, knowing that Mum was standing as a candidate in a general election. She was the only one of my three adult children who was able to be on the general roll to vote in support of her mother.

My point is that there was a limitation, and there is a limitation, for those of us who are of Māori ancestry. The electoral law does provide us with a choice as to whether we are on a general roll or on the Māori roll, but that choice has limitations. So I speak where I can, in standing and addressing the House, from personal experience, and that personally impacted me in terms of a professional capacity that I had to be able to carry through and vote for myself. But I was fortunate that I did gain the confidence in 2017 of sufficient general voters, those enrolled on the general roll in the Whanganui electorate, to vote in support of me. So the National Party has expressed the consternation and the concerns associated with the potential that some may see as being able to ply or play or game the system, in terms of—if it were to be continuous right up to the polling day itself, to be able to shift or switch whichever roll one was on, to strategically cast the vote.

I won’t take a long call, but having listened to the—I won’t utilise the full time, but just to say, having listened to the speeches in the House, I was interested to hear my colleague Nicole McKee from the ACT Party indicating that there hadn’t been engagement between the Government with ACT. All I say is that it does require proactivity. The National Party was proactively engaged. Paul Goldsmith had the necessary conversations with the Minister of Justice, and we will wait and see at the committee of the whole House the Supplementary Order Paper being tabled so that the National Party, on receipt of that, are able to turn our mind to either giving this the fullest support that it would deserve if it were up to that three-month window and bracket prior to the election, enabling Māori voters the choice and the ability to change from either general to Māori or Māori to general.

So, on that note, as the last speaker for the National Party at the second reading, we have indicated support through to receipt of the Supplementary Order Paper through to the third reading.

Tēnā koe, Madam Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Electoral (Māori Electoral Option) Legislation Bill this afternoon.

Nāku te rourou, nāu te rourou, ka ora ai te iwi.

[With my food basket and your food basket, our people will live well.]

Most people know that whakataukī, but the importance in today’s context is coming together: my food basket, your food basket; together our people will live well. And when it comes to this particular bill, it’s an opportunity for us to collaborate for the benefit of all of our people—in this instance, for the benefit of Māori.

Can I acknowledge my Justice Committee colleagues for the work that you’ve done on this particular piece of legislation—it is important. One of the goals, one of my goals—and I think people will share this sentiment—is that we want people to vote however and whenever they wish to exercise their right to vote. They should have the opportunity. What’s good today is that we haven’t talked about just one vote. We shouldn’t be afraid of some of the opportunity that this piece of legislation presents to us, because that good old argument, that “one person, one vote”, which is pulled out at times, you know, effectively means that people do have the opportunity to contribute their vote and have a say in the democracy of New Zealand.

This bill is about fairness. It’s enabling all people—and all Māori, in this sense—to have a choice about which roll that they want to be represented on at which particular time. And I want to acknowledge my Ngāti Whitikaupeka whanaunga Harete Hipango for your contribution in the House this afternoon and the acknowledgment of sometimes the complexities of being a Māori in politics and those challenges and choices that you have between both the Māori roll and the general roll. I, in fact, have been on both rolls—that I have both started on the general roll, went on to the Māori roll because I wanted to support my friend Kelvin Davis and then, in turn, wanted to come back to the general roll and stand for the seat of Northcote. Indeed, with that, you have a support base that I think follows you and that mobilises particularly Māori to stand up and make their contribution.

So this particular choice is important, and I commend this bill to the House