Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she have confidence in all of her Ministers?

Mr Speaker, I should start by warning you that the answer will be a little longer than usual. Yes, I am proud of Ministers’ efforts to support New Zealanders through global economic uncertainty and disruption and extreme weather events while continuing to tackle New Zealand’s long-term challenges. Education Ministers celebrated two years of the Government’s Healthy School Lunches programme; 220,000 kids at 950 schools receive 1 million lunches a week. The Minister for Emergency Management, the Hon Kieran McAnulty; and Minister for Rural Communities, the Hon Damien O’Connor, have been overseeing our response to flooding in the West Coast, Nelson, Tasman, and Marlborough regions. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta; and Minister of Defence, the Hon Peeni Henare, announced significant deployments of 120 New Zealand Defence Force personnel to the United Kingdom to help train Ukraine soldiers as part of an international effort to help Ukraine to continue to defend itself against Russia’s illegal—

💬 Hon Member: What about the outcomes? What about the outcomes?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I hear the Opposition member calling for outcomes; unfortunately, we have not yet been able to end the war by Russia, but we continue to do our part. The Minister of Finance has ensured Kiwibank remains 100 percent Kiwi-owned. The Minister of Immigration announced further measures to help relieve workforce shortages. The Hon Peeni Henare spoke for the Government at Koroneihana, outlining our commitment to Māori and our strong progress on health, on education, and on housing. The Minister of Agriculture celebrated a record year for food and fibre sectors. New Zealand is in a strong position to support households and businesses. Unemployment is low, exports are growing, and Government debt is substantially below other nations. We remain focused on supporting New Zealanders through these challenging times.

💬 Christopher Luxon: How can she have confidence in her finance Minister when inflation is at its highest rate in three decades and more than two years have passed since wages last rose faster than inflation?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I retain confidence in the Minister of Finance because he has navigated us through one of the most significant economic crises of a generation, and he has done so with record-low unemployment. I directly attribute that to interventions like the wage subsidy, which I note the Opposition, at the time, supported. I also have confidence in him because of the interventions he made to ensure that businesses were able to remain open throughout the pandemic and continue to keep people connected to work. I have confidence because he has kept debt low; relative to other countries within the OECD, we have come out with much lower rates of debt than those we would compare ourselves to. I have confidence that even though we are seeing inflation increase as a result of many of the global issues around us, even then, relative to other countries, we have not seen the levels that others have reached. I am proud of this Minister of Finance, and I know many other New Zealanders are too.

💬 Christopher Luxon: How can she have confidence in her housing Minister when both the State house waitlist and the number of children living in cars have quadrupled?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of the State houses we now have in New Zealand, in total, 10 percent were built by this Government. No other Government since the 1970s has built as many houses as this Government. If you want to talk about shame, the shame sits with the previous Government, on the Opposition benches, who not only did not grow housing but sold them. Had they built at the rate that we are building now, we would have almost cleared the waiting lists we have. That is shameful.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is she aware that 100,000 Kiwi school kids are chronically truant, and, if so, when will she be calling the Minister of Education into her office for a performance review?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m not going to performance review a Minister over COVID-19 and the impact that it has had on attendance, nor will I performance review an education Minister on changes to truancy services in 2015 that have led to an ongoing decline in attendance—or at least contributed to it. We do have an issue in New Zealand; I should also add that one of those issues has been exacerbated by illness, but even then we are doing work to make sure that we rebuild those truancy services and turn around attendance. I have great faith in our education Ministers to do that.

💬 Christopher Luxon: How can she have any confidence in her justice Minister when violent crime is up 21 percent and gang membership is up over 40 percent?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have confidence in that Minister because, across our justice portfolios, we have, for instance, seen an increase in the number of front-line police officers. We have dedicated retail units; organised crime units. Three significant operations leading to multiple—hundreds—of charges, arrests, and confiscation of firearms. I would also challenge some of the member’s numbers. Of course, for us, on this side, though, the reason we don’t get into the numbers debate is because we don’t want any victims in this country—even if that member’s numbers are wrong.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does she have confidence in her environment Minister when New Zealand imported a record 1.8 million tonnes of coal last year, nearly four times more than in 2017?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I see that the member that he refers to is a man of great intellect, but even he can’t make it rain. Even though New Zealand has one of the highest levels of renewable electricity generation, in roughly 85 percent, if we have a dry hydrological year, it will have an impact on fossil fuels. One of the reasons I maintain absolute confidence in this Cabinet is, unlike on that side where no work was done to find how we can substitute the gap, on this side of the House, we have set the target of getting to 100 percent renewable, and we have business case studies under way to see how we can get there.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is she confident her revenue Minister won’t send any more taxpayer money to French backpackers, expats in London, or dead people?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What I can guarantee you that our revenue Minister will not do is give a tax cut to those on $180,000 or more, thus growing inequality in this country and going against the will of the majority of New Zealanders, who do not believe that that is a good use of revenue.

Question No. 2—Housing

2. to the Minister of Housing: What action is the Government taking to increase the supply of affordable rental housing?

The Government is encouraging more long-term rental options by giving Build to Rent developers an exemption on the interest deductibility limitations. We are exempting Build to Rent developments from interest limitation in perpetuity. This will attract new sources of forms of stable, long-term investments such as iwi or superannuation funds. As we know, Build to Rent projects often need a longer time frame of 50-plus years to realise returns. These exemptions will be available for any Build to Rent development for as long as the homes are held as long-term rentals. They also need to offer tenants leases of at least 10 years and have additional personalisation policies beyond the minimum requirements of the Residential Tenancy Act. This is something we’ve been working on with the sector since February 2021. We recognise that Build to Rent can help to continue the current momentum of new supply and improve the quality of rental housing with new, warm, dry, secure homes.

💬 Shanan Halbert: What responses has she heard from the sector?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: This exemption has been well received by the sector, including the Property Council of New Zealand who said, “Today’s announcement is one of the best levers to unlocking the potential of Build to Rent … We support the Government’s desire to enable Build to Rent in order to provide warm, dry rental homes that offer Kiwis long-term security of tenure.” The Property Council has also said their research indicates that members are poised to deliver around 25,000 Build to Rent homes in the next decade. I also saw positive responses from developers, including Mark Todd of Ockham Residential who said, “I’m pleased the interest deductibility is dependent on build to rent operators offering their residents a minimum 10-year tenancy. That is fair, that is right: that is a step towards giving these residents the security they need to make the home they pay for truly theirs, not a tenuous arrangement dependent on the grace and favour of landlords.”

💬 Shanan Halbert: How will this exemption benefit tenants?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We believe security of tenure is critical for people who are renting. That is why, to qualify for the exemption, developers will need to offer tenants leases of at least 10 years that tenants are able to break with a 56-day notice period. Tenants can ask for shorter agreements if they wish, and the developer will still qualify for the exemption. This requirement will enable people to settle and personalise their homes, reduce how often they must find a new place to live and all those associated moving costs. It will also allow families to start their kids at school and know that they won’t have to move. In comparison to the median tenure in the private market of only 16 months, the Government agreed 10 years to be a suitable minimum period as it reflects the importance of long-term housing stability on people’s lives.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the statement by the Reserve Bank in its August Monetary Policy Statement that “domestic inflationary pressures had increased since May”, and what role, if any, does he think Government policy has played in that?

In response to the first part of the question, yes. New Zealand’s inflation rate has increased to an annual rate of 7.3 percent in the June quarter 2022. The domestic labour market is clearly the tightest it has been in a generation. However, the fact that both the Reserve Bank and a wide range of observers are suggesting that the annual inflation rate has peaked is an encouraging sign and indicates that the steps that the Reserve Bank has taken so far to contain inflation are working. With regard to the second part of the question, over the period the member is referring to, the Government has enacted temporary reductions in fuel excise duty and road-user charges to soften the impact of high petrol prices and introduced half-price public transport, which have in fact put downwards pressure on the Consumers Price Index (CPI).

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he agree with the Reserve Bank that the very tight labour market is adding to high CPI inflation, and does he concede that the Government’s restrictive immigration settings have contributed to that?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in my answer to the primary question, indeed we do have one of the tightest labour markets we’ve seen for a generation. In the period that the member is referring to in her primary question, the Government began enacting its immigration reset and the borders reopened in order to help address those issues.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he think that’s been very successful?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think actually that the opening of the borders has been extremely successful. We’re seeing tourists come in. We’re seeing more people apply. We’re seeing the accredited work visa system come into being. On this side of the House, we’re extremely proud of the fact that during the period of COVID, we have seen unemployment fall to the lowest level on record. The member might want to see unemployment increase; on this side of the House, we don’t.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he stand by his statement that the cost of living payment is targeted, and, if so, why did the Government target the payment to overseas nationals who declared taxable income for their investment properties?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I reject that part of the member’s question. The cost of living payment was far more targeted than the policy the member advocates of giving tax cuts to the highest income earners. I’m surprised we haven’t heard the U-turn on that after the polling about it, but the member’s sticking with it. New Zealanders don’t want it and it’s the wrong thing to do.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does the Minister reject the fact that clients in China who don’t live in New Zealand but have investment properties in New Zealand have declared taxable income here and received the cost of living payment, and if he does deny that, will he join my call for the Auditor-General to look into these serious claims?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I am saying is that the criteria that the Government set for the payment is extremely clear.

💬 Nicola Willis: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a document.

💬 SPEAKER: What is the document?

💬 Nicola Willis: The document is a message I have received on Facebook from someone about clients in China receiving the cost of living payment while not living in New Zealand.

💬 SPEAKER: Just a question—is it a Facebook Messenger message?

💬 Nicola Willis: Yes.

💬 SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be none.

Document, by leave, laid on the Table of the House. [Interruption]

💬 Nicola Willis: Well, you don’t care. It’s only taxpayers’ money after all.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will stand withdraw and apologise.

💬 Nicola Willis: I withdraw and apologise.

Question No. 4—Arts, Culture and Heritage

4. to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What announcements has she made about artists’ resale royalties?

Last week, I announced that the Government is establishing an artists’ resale royalty scheme. The Artist Resale Royalty Scheme will support and recognise the work of our visual artists by ensuring that a royalty is collected when their work is sold on the resale market. The scheme will be a flat rate of 5 percent before any additions, deductions, or any other charges, ensuring it does not place too large a burden on buyers, sellers, and art market professionals.

💬 Naisi Chen: Why is this announcement important?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This announcement is important for a number of reasons, and has been over 15 years in the making. It’s about fairness and underlines our Government’s commitment to honouring the tremendous artistic skill and creativity of so many of our visual artists. It is part of our free-trade agreement with the UK and the EU, and places Aotearoa New Zealand alongside more than 80 other countries who now have resale royalty schemes, aligning with common international practice. My thanks go to all the proponents who have pushed for this and those who have started the journey toward where we are today, including the former Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage and the Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage, the Rt Hon Helen Clark and the Hon Judith Tizard.

💬 Naisi Chen: What feedback has she seen on this announcement?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I note Wairau Māori Art Gallery Chair, Elizabeth Ellis, said, upon sharing our announcement with a range of Māori arts practitioners, friends, colleagues, and associates, “Without fail, they all sent enthusiastic, excited replies supporting the Scheme. Voices of the arts practitioners, young and old, from the Creative Sector, called out from studios, marae, galleries, wānanga, universities, and museums. Their words echoed in every reply to my email, ‘Tautoko’, ‘Support’, ‘Endorse’, ‘Tautoko te Kaupapa Nui’, ‘Long Overdue’.” And artist Judy Darragh said, “this decision truly is a gamechanger for artists around Aotearoa.”

Question No. 5—Prime Minister

5. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes.

💬 David Seymour: Does she believe the Government’s actions are reducing the frequency of ram raids, and, if so, what evidence can she present to show those numbers are falling?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Whilst we have disputed the suggestion that overall we have a proliferation of criminal acts by young people, because there has not been evidence to suggest that, we have acknowledged that we have had a spate of ram raids in particular areas—Tāmaki-makau-rau and also in the Waikato. It’s one of the reasons, of course, that we’ve announced specific funding in the same way that we’ve worked very hard with retailers on armed hold-ups, particularly targeting those who sold cigarettes, to enable a wider roll-out of fog cannons. We have instituted a similar regime to help prevent ram raids for those retailers that may be susceptible to them. We expect that there could be upwards of 500 that would be supported through that fund.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister’s Government have any way of measuring this spate of ram raids, and, if not, how will they know if any of their actions are succeeding?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. Police do keep a tally of ram raids in different regions. And to the member, again, I have asked on previous occasions, and I would appreciate, that if you wish me to bring numbers to the House, I will gladly do so, but it would be useful to have a question on notice.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her appointment of Kiritapu Allan as Minister of Justice, responsible for reviewing the Official Information Act (OIA), when Kiritapu Allan had previously told Labour MPs that, “Things unfolding through [the] OIA … [is] less than desirable.”

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I absolutely do. Secondly, the member, of course, knows that the Official Information Act covers a raft of communication. What Minister Allan—and we take our obligations very seriously there—

💬 Hon Members: Ha, ha!

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Simon O’Connor: Andrea Vance doesn’t agree.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Which is why—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Sorry; I apologise. Look, when I call “Order!” and people are required to be quiet, they are required to continue—no, take the mask off again, Mr O’Connor, because you’re going to stand up, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Simon O’Connor: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Which is why, despite OIA volumes more than doubling since 2016, 97.3 percent were completed on time; 0.15 percent of all OIA responses result in a finding of deficiency by the Ombudsman’s office. We proactively release Cabinet Papers, diaries. This is physical evidence and outcomes of how we treat the OIA.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her Government’s decision announced yesterday to purchase the ACC and NZ super fund’s shares of Kiwi Group Holdings, and, if so, is she happy with Kiwibank’s market share of around 5 percent; if not, how much taxpayer money will her Government inject so that Kiwibank can grow its market share in a competitive environment?

💬 SPEAKER: Any one of the three questions.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: To answer the first question, yes.

💬 David Seymour: Does she agree with New Zealand super fund manager Matt Whineray, who said, “we sought the flexibility to introduce private sector capital and governance capabilities into the business, and wanted out of the business because her Government would not agree to these terms.”; if she does not agree, how will the Government inject expertise and capital into Kiwibank?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: In answer to the first part of the question, it is correct that we wanted Kiwibank to remain 100 percent Kiwi owned. And to refer to, again, the member’s reference to the market share: of the million, roughly, New Zealanders who bank with Kiwibank, for many of them the reason they do will be because it’s New Zealand - owned and that the revenue remains in New Zealand.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by Minister Willie Jackson’s statement that “‘one person one vote’ is but one value within … [democracy], not the only value.”, and, if so, what does she say to Victoria University professor of political science Jack Vowles, who wrote in reply to Minister Jackson that “everyone having a vote or votes of equal weight to elect those who represent them is not just one value [of democracy], it is a foundational principle. As such, it is recognised in the Bill of Rights”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would say that I would support the regional representative bodies that are being proposed as part of the three waters and as have been supported by the local government representatives who themselves suggested that this is the right way to move forward for the entities. I would back that over the member’s own proposition, which is essentially the ability for foreign-owned corporate boards.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by Michael Wood’s statement on Newstalk ZB that, “Not every teacher is going to have to be fluent in te reo Māori.” or does she agree with education council CEO Lesley Hoskin, who told RNZ that, “The reality is … at some point, we’re going to have to say … [you can] no longer …have a certificate to teach in Aotearoa New Zealand without that competence.”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would have thought the member’s background in education previously, within past Governments, would have meant that he’d know the Teachers Council is independent. It is not Government policy to make te reo Māori compulsory for teacher employment in New Zealand. However, of course I would have thought, given the member just acknowledged Tā Toby, he would want to encourage greater understanding and learning of te reo in this country.

Question No. 6—Education (School Operations)

6. to the Associate Minister of Education (School Operations): What action is the Government taking to lift school attendance?

Yesterday, I joined students, teachers, parents, and principals to launch our nationwide school attendance campaign, Every School Day is a Big Day. The campaign supports practical measures to encourage attendance already under way by schools around the country. The advertising for the campaign was filmed in nine schools all over New Zealand just over two weeks ago, capturing a day in the life of our tamariki in their kura across the country. It showcases how every day at school is a big day for our kids. Every day, schools offer rich, educational learning and also social, cultural, and emotional learning, too. This nationwide campaign is one of the actions in the Government’s Attendance and Engagement Strategy, which sets ambitious targets and clear actions to turn around years of declining attendance rates.

💬 Angela Roberts: Why was a nationwide campaign on this issue needed?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: School attendance is a long-term challenge, gradually declining across the board since 2015—a trend that has been further accelerated by COVID-19. Only three in five kids attend regularly 90 percent of the time, but I’m deeply concerned about the views of adults on this: only 5 percent of Kiwis considered attendance a top-of-mind issue. I know the members in this House—well, I think that all members in this House understand the importance of regular school attendance, so it’s now up to all of us to get this message out to parents and whānau. Going to school regularly is how our kids learn. It means they are better able to pass exams and get qualifications—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member’s answer has been too long.

💬 Angela Roberts: How does—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Someone else had the call and the member interjected. I mean, I’m just trying to work out why—you know, is there a good reason for injecting when the member was asking a supplementary?

💬 Matt Doocey: Are you talking to me?

💬 SPEAKER: Absolutely.

💬 Matt Doocey: I didn’t say a thing.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member’s mask flapped fairly heavily.

💬 Angela Roberts: How does this fit into wider work to—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Out.

Matt Doocey withdrew from the Chamber.

💬 Angela Roberts: How does this fit into wider work to lift school attendance?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: This campaign is part of the Government’s comprehensive strategy to lift attendance. It’s supported by evidence-based solutions that are developed by those who know their school communities best and can respond to their needs, and it’s backed by $88 million worth of investment from Budget 2022. We’re also removing barriers to attending school by providing access to free period products, providing the free and healthy school lunches programme, taking away whānau pressures from school donations, and providing a curriculum with strong grounding in students’ own identity, language, and culture, to name a few.

💬 SPEAKER: Question No. 9, Ricardo Menéndez March.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Point of order—

💬 SPEAKER: Oh, sorry—I apologise. Question No. 7, Dr Shane Reti—it just feels like it’s been that long.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: How many people, if any, waited longer than 24 hours in an emergency department over the past month?

I’m advised by health officials that the latest available data is for June 2022. I can confirm that 540 people waited longer than 24 hours in an emergency department (ED) in the month of June 2022. I’m further advised that two of those 540 self-discharged after 24 hours. I note that this winter has seen extraordinary pressure on hospitals, caused by a combination of the ongoing incidence of the COVID-19 virus, the worst cluster flu season in many years, and elevated levels of staff absenteeism.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What does he say to the Whangārei person who is reported today as waiting more than 30 hours in the emergency department?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I think the important thing is that people who presented to an emergency department are assessed for their acuity and then eventually get the treatment that they need, and that is happening around ED departments around the country and has been all these months.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: How many people then, if any, have left an emergency department recently without being seen, when he wrote to me that in May alone nearly 1,000 people left Middlemore ED without being seen?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I can’t confirm the number of those who say they haven’t been seen. What the hospitals do gather data on is those who present and are assessed, and the time that they wait to either be treated or discharged or admitted is recorded.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What responsibility does he take for the notification today that, from next Monday, Rāwene Hospital—one of the most remote hospitals in the country—will not be providing after-hours emergency department services, which means people will have to travel great distances from the Hokianga to either Kaitāia or Kawakawa?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: It was previously the responsibility of the Northland District Health Board and now the responsibility of Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand to ensure that primary care in their particular regions is supported—that doesn’t just include primary care but aged residential care. We know that some primary care clinics, such as the one in the Hokianga, have been struggling in terms of staff complement, but I am satisfied that all possible support that can be provided by Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand is being provided.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: How many hospitals, if any, have had emergency department patients wait in tents in the carpark, and have any children been made to wait in a tent outside a hospital ED in the past month?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I’m not aware of any hospital that has seen a patient waiting in the carpark.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: You told me Tauranga, Middlemore, Starship.

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: There was an erroneous report from a so-called anonymous source for Middlemore who was wrong, but I also know that some EDs have established marquee arrangements to triage patients for COVID before they are then formally entered into the ED for assessment, or for treatment, discharge or admission.

Question No. 8—Immigration

8. to the Minister of Immigration: What work is the Government undertaking to tackle skill shortages and help Kiwi businesses fill job vacancies?

The Government is taking steps through the immigration rebalance to respond to the global shortage of labour and skills that many Kiwi businesses are facing. We’ve listened to concerns from key sectors and worked with them to develop practical solutions to relieve some of these workforce pressures. That’s why, on Sunday, I announced that the Government is, firstly, implementing agreements with key sectors, including meat processing, aged care, seafood, construction, and adventure tourism, to allow time-limited exemptions for the new median wage requirements for businesses hiring skilled migrant workers as they transition to new settings. We’ve also doubled the cap on working holiday schemes, to allow an extra 12,000 working holidaymakers to come to New Zealand over the next 12 months, and extended the visas of onshore working holidaymakers by six months. These changes to the immigration system that the Government is delivering will ensure that we help to lift wages and conditions for workers while also supporting businesses as the world recovers from COVID-19.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What reactions has he seen from industry to the Government’s work to address skill shortages?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: A very positive response. I was joined by Tourism Industry Aotearoa chief executive Rebecca Ingram for the announcement. She said they are “very positive news for the tourism industry” and “They are hopeful that this will help to relieve some of the immediate pressure on employers.” Chief executive of Hospitality New Zealand Julie White said that the changes to the working holiday scheme would “make a big difference to hospitality businesses struggling with enough staff” and “The changes will kick in in time for the upcoming summer season.” Our Government is very pleased to have worked closely with stakeholders to make these changes within our immigration rebalance, and I thank them for their support.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What is the purpose of the sector agreements?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Sector agreements are time-limited agreements with particular sectors, within the context of the immigration rebalance. The immigration rebalance recognises that we need to send the right signals to lift pay and conditions across our economy before migrant workers are recruited, but we recognise that some sectors will need some time to apply the median wage threshold within the Accredited Employer Work Visa. So, over a two- or three-year period, there’ll be transitional wage arrangements, which still lift wages for workers in those sectors, but also requirements and expectations to improve skills, training, and workforce development. These will be good for the businesses concerned and good for the workforces concerned.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What other actions is the Government taking to address skill shortages?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Beyond the suite of measures announced on Sunday, the Government is getting on with the job of addressing skill shortages. As I said, we’ve opened the borders, allowing working holidaymakers and other workers to return to our shores; we’ve implemented the new Accredited Employer Work Visa, allowing businesses to hire skilled migrants; and we’ve made changes to investor visa settings to ensure that investors who want to come here are actively supporting the New Zealand economy. Our immigration rebalance is supporting New Zealand to get the skills that it needs, but is also supporting better pay and conditions for workers and ensuring that we develop domestic workforces to support sustainable businesses in the future.

Question No. 9—Social Development and Employment

9. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she support sanctioning disabled people and people with health conditions who receive jobseeker benefits for “failing to prepare for work”?

I support our current approach to the use of sanctions, which is to work with a client to ensure they meet their obligations and adhere to the advice of medical professionals about what obligations a client has. Instead of primarily penalising our sick and disabled people, the Government is focused on supporting them into work, if they are able, and helping them achieve their aspirations, by doings things like rolling out our Disability Employment Action Plan and targeted employment support programmes, and we are seeing results. In the year to June 2022, 17,295 job seekers with health conditions or disability exited into work—almost double the number in the year to June 2017. Our approach is working and we stand by it.

Ricardo Menéndez March: What is the impact on children in households where a disabled caregiver loses 50 percent of their income because of a benefit sanction for “failing to prepare for work”?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have seen an 87 percent reduction in the number of sanctions applied to households where there are children. This is a reflection of our approach in the culture change that we initiated with the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) on the front line. I’ve been very clear in this House that excessive use of sanctions and a punitive approach can have detrimental effects. However, there is evidence to suggest that a balanced approach in using them as a last resort can be helpful in some instances.

Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with Labour MP for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, who tweeted, “Just to be very, very clear, people who are unwell or have disabilities and aren’t able to work or are having difficulty finding work shouldn’t be sanctioned!”; if so, will she end sanctions towards disabled people on the jobseeker benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I do agree with the member for Nelson, Rachel Boyack, and she made it very clear: those that aren’t able to work. But there are a number of people that may have a health condition or disability who are able to prepare for work, who are perhaps able to take up some work, like part-time work, and it’s really important that we have the support in place, the programmes in place, to be able to support them to meet their aspirations, as well.

Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with the findings of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report, including at page 81, that “We do not support the continued use of the financial sanctioning regime.”, and, if so, will she commit to repealing sanctions, including for disabled people on the jobseeker benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We were very clear, I think in our policy manifesto, that we would move to get rid of excessive sanctions. We’ve done that with removing section 192 in the subsequent child policy. The Welfare Expert Advisory Group also pointed out the importance of mutual obligations, obligations on MSD’s end to make sure that they treat clients with dignity and they provide them with the supportive environment that they need, but there are also obligations on the other end. Sanctions are there to be used as a last resort. I think, in terms of the massive reduction that we’ve seen, that clearly that is what is happening.

Ricardo Menéndez March: What would she say to Daisy Bell, who used to receive jobseeker health and disability, who said she was “disappointed to see Labour sanctioning people who are sick like she used to be.”, and “I’m willing to bet it’s a tool that is not being appropriately used … people are being treated unfairly and in a really unkind way.”?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I absolutely empathise with what Daisy Bell has said publicly. However, we have to keep it in perspective. There are about 70,000 people that are on jobseeker health condition and disability; in the last quarter, I think 156 received a sanction. It is about clear communication with our clients. It is about ensuring that MSD is looking at the medical advice, rather than making determinations of their own that are purely punitive. As I’ve said, they are a last resort. We don’t want to use them. There is an opportunity, also, to re-comply for those clients. I think that we have to remember that, also, people with health conditions and disabilities often have aspirations to work, as well.

Ricardo Menéndez March: In what instances does she think it is not punitive or excessive to sanction disabled people for “failing to prepare for work”, when the jobseeker payment is the only way for them to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head week to week?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think the point made by the member is that quite often the expectation is preparation for work; it’s not necessarily that they must take up employment. The decisions around that are based on the medical advice that comes through. It’s really important that we work with our clients to be able to meet their aspirations. They have an opportunity to re-comply. It goes back to what I said earlier; there are mutual obligations in the welfare system. But we certainly don’t take a punitive approach to our clients.

Question No. 10—Justice

Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice: is it still the Government’s intention to be “the most open, most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had”; [Interruption] if so, is she confident the Official Information Act 1982 is fit for purpose?

💬 SPEAKER: Right, no. The member will wait. I’m going to ask Mr Goldsmith to ask it again, without the accompanying noise from Mr Bishop.

10. to the Minister of Justice: Is it still the Government’s intention to be “the most open, most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had”; if so, is she confident the Official Information Act 1982 is fit for purpose?

Upholding our legal obligations under the Official Information Act (OIA) is fundamental to the principle of accessibility. This Government has worked to improve the release and transparency of official information. This includes, and is not limited to, instituting the proactive release of Cabinet papers; instituting the monthly proactive release of ministerial diaries; answering 113,000 written parliamentary questions in the last parliamentary term, compared to 41,500 by National in the previous term; legislating to require the Public Service to foster a culture of open government; supporting improved parliamentary practices to enhance ministerial accountability, including a new question and answer process during the committee stage in the House, and following ministerial statements in the House. On the Official Information Act itself, yes, I do believe it’s generally fit for purpose. For example, since 2016, when the Public Service Commission started collecting OIA data, there has been an overall improvement in OIA requests being completed on time despite a 110 percent increase in the volume of requests during that same period. In June 2016, 91.1 percent of OIAs were completed on time, compared with 97.3 percent today. And just 0.15 percent of all OIA responses result in a finding of deficiency by the Ombudsman.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order, Mr Speaker. This was a question on notice. The simple question: is the Government’s intention to be, blah-blah-blah. The Minister gave a long list of things that the Government has done, but she did not answer that question.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Correct. We’ve done those things.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, if the member wants an extended answer, the member can have another go.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I just note she was talking during my point of order, but I asked a specific question. The question is: is it still the Government’s intention to be the most honest and transparent Government we’ve ever had?

💬 SPEAKER: I sort of took the answer to the first part to be affirmative, but if the member wants it clarified we’ll ask the Minister to do it.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I’d be happy to respond to the member. This side of the House, this Government, has absolutely taken our responsibilities under the OIA to enhance and ensure the transparency and that principle of accessibility, which we find is fundamental and critical. As I was saying, 113,000 written parliamentary questions—

💬 SPEAKER: I think, well, I’ll just say to the member, there are some things which she’s responsible for, and there’s some things which I am. Taking credit for questions being answered is not something to do with the OIA, while it might be something to do with transparency.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Point of order, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no. I’ll take Mr Bishop first.

💬 Chris Bishop: This is a serious point. Twice now the Minister has not sought to answer a direct primary question on notice that she’s had three or four hours’ notice of. The context for this is the quote, “the most open, transparent Government”, which was the quote from the initial Associate Minister of public services—I think the open brackets title was “(Open Government)”, the Hon Clare Curran, right at the start of the Government’s time in office—

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry, can the member come to a point of order?

💬 Chris Bishop: The point of order is the Minister has had a primary question on notice that she has not addressed.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, that is clearly—

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Responding to the point of order—

💬 SPEAKER: No, the member will resume her seat. That’s clearly incorrect.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she asked the former Minister of Conservation to clarify what she’d need when she messaged colleagues on the subject of the OIA, “All correspondence is OIA-able, and if we are being lobbied on issues by colleagues, especially when we haven’t had a yarn, things unfolding through OIA process, less than desirable.”?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Can I just absolutely check that the member has sourced that comment as a comment from the Minister of Conservation?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Yes. Well, it’s—

💬 SPEAKER: In that portfolio?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: No. It’s from the Minister Kiri Allan. It’s from Kiri Allan at a time when she was the Minister of Conservation.

💬 SPEAKER: Right—well, get that right.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The message that the member refers to is a message exchanged between two Labour members of Parliament. That is a matter of public record.

💬 David Seymour: Point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: David Seymour, did you have something additional?

💬 David Seymour: Yes, only to say that very clearly the person writing that message was speaking as a Minister and giving guidance to how MPs should deal with a Minister’s office.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I think we’ll go right back to the point, and that is that this could have been interpreted as a Minister making a statement. It was a statement made by a Minister via an app and therefore I think the member can be questioned on it.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I’m pleased to be able to respond to that question. The former Minister of Conservation, and prior to then, the former whip; and prior to then, she was a lawyer and advised a lot of people on official information issues. One of the issues that I have here is a message to clearly explain to colleagues that don’t come into this House and don’t have a lot of knowledge on these issues. I think it’s incumbent on colleagues, and actually any member of this House is absolutely entitled to be able to seek advice about what they can and absolutely are obliged to do under the Official Information Act. I can say that I was simply offering the opportunity to colleagues to discuss the process to ensure that they were aware of it.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a document, a message from Kiri Allan—

💬 SPEAKER: No. That’s something which is already in the public arena.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Did the former Minister of Conservation explain to her exactly why things unfolding through the OIA process is less than desirable?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I will agree with the comments that I think have been made by many colleagues on both sides of this House and indeed by your deputy leader, Nicola Willis, this morning. She said, and I repeat, that it’s been the practice over successive Governments that backbenchers and colleagues use all range of methods to communicate with their ministerial colleagues. As that member will be aware as a previous Minister in his former Government, we wear different hats. It’s important to ensure that members of Parliament who don’t have the same responsibilities as ministerial colleagues are clear on their roles, their rights, and their responsibilities. So to that end, I agree with your deputy leader, Nicola Willis, and the comment that she made on Morning Report this morning.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she seen the published comments of a leading Stuff journalist regarding media attempts to use the Official Information Act under this Government, “In my 20-plus years as a journalist, this Government is one of the most thin-skinned and secretive I have experienced. Many of my colleagues say the same.”, and, if so, does she think that reflects poorly on the legislation or on her colleagues?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I haven’t seen that particular article but I did have the opportunity to review an article by a well-known former reporter of the parliamentary gallery—Hamish Rutherford. He wrote in Stuff in October 2015 in response to the then trade Minister losing a High Court series of cases with respect to the OIA that it emerged that, for example, “previous Ministers in previous Governments”—this one, Mr Groser—“had not reviewed his documents. He refused to release documents, a blanket refusal on information that was provided—”

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I probably should have ruled it out earlier in the answer. The Minister’s responsible neither for Mr Rutherford nor the former Minister of overseas trade.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she written to the Chief Ombudsman to give him the assurances he sought about the training given to Labour MPs on dealing with the OIA, or did she feel it was safer just to ring him?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I have not been requested, nor have I responded to any requests for information from the Ombudsman. But I will just respond briefly in terms of former Prime Ministers of this House. In the National Business Review of October 2015, Prime Minister John Key—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. The member is not responsible for that.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I know. But he asked me.

💬 SPEAKER: And she will now withdraw and apologise for interjecting while I was on my feet.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: Further supplementary, Paul Goldsmith?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is that an additional one?

💬 SPEAKER: Yes.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Thank you very much. Is it in her view open and transparent for Ministers to request messages to be passed on verbally rather than through letters because the latter is presumably more OIA-able?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I do think it’s appropriate that all members of this Parliament know that there is a range of different ways that they can advocate and lobby for their communities and in turn their constituents, and that they understand the rights and responsibilities that each of those avenues takes. But whilst I’m on my feet—I do know that in 2017 the transport Minister, then Simon Bridges, was noted for blocking official information requests.

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: In October2015—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I’ll make a baby cry if I have to do that again. Can I remind the member for the third time and the last time—

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Sorry, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: The member will withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: And—yeah; she’s pretty lucky to still be here.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Supplementary?

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, the member can have another one.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is she aware that the Prime Minister said in the Speech from the Throne in 2017 that her Government “will strengthen transparency around official information”, and, if so, how does she think Ministers encouraging people to talk to them directly rather than send letters that may be OIA-able strengthens transparency around official information?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: For all the reasons set out in my first answer, I believe that this side of the House and this Government has strengthened transparency with respect to the official undertakings that we’re required to do as the Government.

Question No. 11—Emergency Management

11. to the Minister for Emergency Management: How is the Government supporting Nelson and Marlborough through recent severe weather events and flooding?

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I know this House will join me in acknowledging the communities in the top of the South Island who have been affected by severe weather, flooding, and slips. This past week has been really tough for them, with a long and challenging recovery ahead. Emergency management professionals and volunteers are working hard on the ground and continue to support people in need of help. The local mayors have been in regular contact, and I have met with them in the affected areas to get a firsthand understanding of what support is required from the Government. So far, we’ve provided initial contributions of $400,000 to the mayoral relief funds across Nelson-Tasman and Marlborough to support these communities as they assess the full extent of the damage and begin the clean-up. The mayoral fund is a discretionary fund to get the money out to communities immediately. Having seen the impact of the severe weather firsthand, I know more support will be required, and we stand ready to assist.

💬 Rachel Boyack: How has the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) responded to this emergency?

💬 Hon KIERAN McANULTY: When the forecasts of incoming severe weather were received, NEMA activated its national coordination centre to respond to these emergencies and to support the activities of local civil defence groups. NEMA has also deployed staff and emergency management assistance teams and personnel to the hard-hit region. Regional emergency management advisers from NEMA have been deployed to Nelson-Tasman and Marlborough and are assisting with the ongoing response and assessing the transition to recovery. Both regions are assessing damage, and Government officials are in location to assist. These efforts are led by regional civil defence and emergency management (CDEM) groups, with NEMA in position to assist where required with personnel and expertise. I want to thank everyone who has moved quickly to respond to this event—and those in Northland, Taranaki, and the West Coast—the regional CDEM groups, local iwi, volunteers, first responders, and civil defence personnel from across the country, who have stepped up to keep people safe.

💬 Rachel Boyack: What is the Government doing to better prepare New Zealanders for these kinds of emergencies?

💬 Hon KIERAN McANULTY: Since 2020, the Government has invested $217 million in 55 flood-protection projects across New Zealand. This is in addition to the payments the Government makes to councils to repair damaged stopbanks through their emergency management system. The national adaptation plan launched at the start of the month will ensure that communities have the information and support they need to prepare for the impacts of climate change, including more frequent and severe flood events. The national adaptation plan brings together more than 120 actions that, together, provide a blueprint for more resilient communities where everything, from our homes to the way we grow our food, is protected from the worst effects of climate change. The national adaptation plan will outline the steps the Government will take over the next six years to respond to these risks. The National Emergency Management Agency has recently rolled out two flooding life-safety public education campaigns: “Flood Waters Are Deep Trouble” and “Get The Flood Out”.

Question No. 12—Immigration

12. to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by his statements and actions?

Yes, I do. In particular, I stand by the Government’s decision to increase the refugee resettlement quota for the 2022–23 year to 1,500 people, and to double the family support category from 300 to 600 as a part of that. While, quite rightly, much of our focus in the immigration policy is on short-term work visa issues at the moment, it’s important to remember that as we reconnect with the world, there is an important role for humanitarian policy in our immigration settings as well.

💬 Erica Stanford: How well does he think the new Accredited Employer Work Visa (AEWV) is working for attracting nurses, when only 14 new offshore nurses applied in the first 5½ weeks, compared to an average of 57 new offshore nurses each month this year under the old visa?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The evidence in terms of the numbers and reports that I have received is that there is very strong interest amongst nurses and across the health workforce in respect of the Accredited Employer Work Visa. I’m advised that a relatively large number of applications have now come through the Job Check process in the health sector: 7,033 applications for people to work in the health sector have been approved by Immigration New Zealand in that Job Check process, bearing in mind that is a process that, effectively, commenced last month, in July. The next step, then, is for employers to recruit and for those people to apply for work visas. We are now beginning to see those come through—54 have been approved and 48 are in-country. In the meantime, nurses and health workers do continue to come in through the critical purpose visa, including 67 last week.

💬 Erica Stanford: Is he satisfied that only three new offshore aged-care nurses applied for an AEWV visa in nearly six weeks, when the aged-care sector has been forced to close a thousand beds in the last six months due to shortages of 1,200 nurses?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: As I have explained in my primary answer, the evidence that we see is that very strong numbers across the health workforce, including in aged care, have been approved in the Job Check stage of the Accredited Employer Work Visa. That is a process that has kicked in relatively recently. Employers now have the ability, once they receive those approvals and those tickets, to then be able to go and recruit offshore, and we expect those numbers to be coming through. Again, I note that workers continue to come into New Zealand through other visa categories that are still active.

💬 Erica Stanford: Does the Minister understand that the Job Check process has been open since 20 June, AEWVs have been able to be applied for for the last 6½ weeks, and only 14 nurses have applied?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I would have to confirm the member’s numbers, because as we have heard in this House previously, she doesn’t always get them right. As I have outlined, the process is in flow. We have had 7,033 health workers who have been approved by Immigration New Zealand under the Job Check stage of the Accredited Employer Work Visa scheme, and those completed applications across the AEWV have been completed on an average of 11 days’ processing time, which is a pretty good performance for a scheme in its first one to two months of operation. We now expect to see work visa applications ramp up in the coming weeks.

💬 Erica Stanford: Does the Minister remember signing off a question to me, saying that only 14 offshore new nurses—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member might want to start again—maybe he signed off an answer?

💬 Erica Stanford: Oh, sorry. Does the Minister remember signing off an answer to a question from me stating that only 14 new offshore nurses had applied for an AEWV up to 10 August, which is the first 5½ weeks of the visa being open?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Yes, but I note that that answer would have been received nearly two weeks ago.