Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

In its fortnightly economic update, Treasury reports that, while weaker exports earlier in the year drove the March quarter contraction in GDP, business and household demand has remained strong. While there is no doubt pressure on many households and businesses, the New Zealand activity index—which is a composite measure of eight indicators—showed that activity increased in May, with particularly strong gains in the hospitality sector. Card spending also rose 1.4 percent in May, following a 7.3 percent rise in April. Despite this solid demand, there are, of course, still challenges ahead, with the high global inflation and supply chain constraints continuing to affect our partner economies as well as New Zealand.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Our primary sector does continue to perform well. According to Statistics New Zealand, New Zealand’s exports rose 18 percent to $7 billion in May, compared to May last year. Imports also rose 24 percent to $6.7 billion. Red meat exports were the main contributor to the rise in exports, up 27 percent to $1 billion on the back of higher beef and sheep prices. Dairy products rose 11 percent to $1.6 billion, led by higher prices for milk powder and butter. Last week, Fonterra also raised its forecast payout for the coming season to a record level, as strong demand and a favourable currency move worked in its favour and the favour of the members of the cooperative.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on international economic activity that affects the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Inflation pressures are affecting countries around the world, and many central banks are raising interest rates. In Australia, business and consumer confidence are both down, with inflation there expected to rise to around 7 percent later this year. The Reserve Bank of Australia has indicated it will continue to raise rates to bring supply and demand back into line. On the up side, activity in China appears to be recovering after widespread lockdowns, with industrial production and investment showing signs of improvement, and supply chain disruptions there beginning to ease. The global economy does remain volatile and the outlook uncertain, but New Zealand is in a strong economic and fiscal position to continue to support businesses and households through this difficult time.

Question No. 2—Internal Affairs

2. to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Does she have confidence in the current state of our fire and emergency services, when the NZ Professional Firefighters Union is reporting that FENZ management is failing to keep career fire stations open 24/7 and there are dangerously low staffing levels; if so, why?

Yes, I have confidence in both Fire and Emergency (FENZ) and the 1,800 career firefighters, whom the firefighters union represent, and the 12,000 volunteers who do an amazing job at keeping our communities safe.

💬 Jan Logie: What is her response to firefighter Nick O’Brien, who said last week: “In the last month alone, I did 110 hours of overtime. That is on top of my normal month’s work. … No-one should have to go to work 80 hours … or have to worry their equipment isn’t going to work when they are in an emergency.”?

💬 SPEAKER: I’m going to let the Minister answer the question but I’m going to warn the member that quotes, if they’re to be used, are to be succinct; that wasn’t.

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: First and foremost, I want to be clear that our firefighters do amazing work and I want to support them as best I can within the remit of my role. I also want to be clear that, as an independent Crown entity, operational decisions are matters for FENZ rather than me as Minister of Internal Affairs. But I have met with the New Zealand firefighters union and heard the concerns they have raised, and I take them very seriously. As a result, I have made my expectations very clear to the FENZ board, the executive leadership team, and the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) as the monitoring agency. Now, the advice that I’ve received is that career firefighters work an average of 42 hours per week before overtime, based on two day shifts followed by two night shifts and four days off. Firefighters, on average, spend about 6 percent of their rostered time attending incidents. They are rostered so that firefighters can respond to multiple incidents 24/7. That said, some personnel occasionally work long hours and, like many organisations, Fire and Emergency has recently been impacted by absences due to COVID-19. I have heard these concerns from the union and I’m taking them very seriously within the remit of my role, which is why I continue to have discussions with the union and with the FENZ administration.

💬 Jan Logie: Does the Minister recognise that the low base pay rates, and a desire to ensure that there is always a crew to be able to respond to an emergency in their community, makes it really hard for firefighters to refuse extra shifts even when they’re exhausted?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: The member will be aware that industrial action is currently under way and, as the Minister, it would be inappropriate for me to get involved in any of the details to do with the bargaining arrangements. However, I do reiterate, as I’ve said, that I do take the concerns very, very seriously, which is why I’m keeping discussions and conversations open with both the union and setting my expectations very, very clearly with the FENZ executive leadership team and the board and DIA.

💬 Jan Logie: Does the Minister think it is safe and reasonable for a local brigade to have to use a 40-year-old fire truck that’s been decommissioned, jerry-rigging a radio back into it, because no other trucks in the area were functional, as I was told by my local firefighters yesterday?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: That brings a wider consideration around what FENZ took over when the organisation was amalgamated back in 2017. Once the new Act was passed and Fire and Emergency was established, the state of the assets inherited from the old rural fire authorities was known to be variable. But the true state of stations’ equipment and workplace culture was worse than anticipated. Fire and Emergency New Zealand also inherited a backlog of deferred expenditure. Significant investment has been required to bring assets and workplace culture to a reasonable state. The focus of the organisation over the last four years has been to put the investment in place to establish a modern fire and emergency service organisation, and in 2020 the Government funded $51.3 million to build or upgrade 26 fire stations in different parts of the country to ensure that these stations were fit for purpose.

💬 Todd Muller: Does she think it is good value for money to spend $145 million on contractors and consultants when fire stations were closed over the last two weekends due to a lack of staff?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: As I’ve pointed out, there were quite a number of inefficiencies that happened in Fire and Emergency when it was amalgamated back in 2017. And Fire and Emergency has worked incredibly hard to get on top of this. And as I’ve also said, I do take the concerns of the union very, very seriously, which is why I met with the union just last week. I have had a meeting with the Fire and Emergency executive leadership team to ensure that they are on top of those concerns, and I am looking forward to progress in that area being made very shortly.

💬 SPEAKER: David Seymour. Sorry, can we go to Todd Muller just because that’s the normal way of doing things? I didn’t realise the member had another one.

💬 Todd Muller: On what basis does she think $145 million on contractors and consultants is good value for money when the last year of the Fire Service, prior to the merger, spent $4.5 million on consultants and contractors?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: The spend occurred over a five-year period, and we need to be aware of that—over a five-year period. The spend peaked during transition and integration periods, which would not be unexpected during those times. And, of course, once we had moved through those times, in the last year this spend has dropped. I am aware that there is still significant work to do to unify the organisation, particularly in systems, processes, and technologies where external assistance is likely required.

💬 David Seymour: Why did the number of management and support staff increase by 14.7 percent in the first three years of FENZ, despite the number of career and volunteer firefighters, who actually fight fires, increasing by only 7 percent and 6 percent respectively?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: That is an operational matter that does not come under the Minister’s remit.

💬 Jan Logie: Is the Minister comfortable with firefighters putting their lives on the line, regularly attending traumatic events with equipment they can’t rely on, and being paid a base pay rate of less than the living wage?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: No qualified firefighter is getting paid less than the living wage, and I have gone and I have double checked that today to make sure that that is the case. That is not a fact that is happening. I do take these concerns—and I have said that in this House this afternoon—incredibly seriously, which is why I will keep the dialogue open to make sure that we get these concerns addressed in a reasonable manner.

💬 Jan Logie: Supplementary. [Chlöe Swarbrick holds up a t-shirt with a slogan written on it]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member just lost her supplementary because of the behaviour of the member next to her.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I referred just earlier today to the Standing Orders, which include the ability to use a visual aid as a member supporting a member asking a question or providing a speech.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, yes, and the ability to use slogans is not one of them. Does the member have a further supplementary? She’s used one out of that exercise.

💬 Jan Logie: Will the Minister commit to an independent investigation of FENZ or at least expand the ongoing Belinda Clark review to encompass the concerns about low staffing levels, pay, poor equipment, and a breakdown in relationship between front-line fire workers and FENZ management?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: The member will be aware, as she’s pointed out by referencing the Belinda Clark independent review, that there have been reports of bullying and harassment in claims within the organisation. And that’s something, again, that I’ve taken seriously as the Minister, and it’s why I’ve commissioned some independent work through the Public Service Commission to seek greater assurances that that is in place and is working. Therefore, I want to see that work through to its degree and its end at this point in time. So at this stage, no further reviews of that nature that the member is referring to are planned.

Question No. 3—Prime Minister

3. to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by the Prime Minister’s statement that “we are well placed to recover, with one of the best economies in the world”; if so, is he confident that New Zealand’s economy will grow faster than Australia’s over the next four years?

With characteristic modesty, I note the full quote of the Prime Minister: “in the midst of a crisis, in the midst of such tough economic times globally, we are well placed to recover, with one of the best economies in the world. And … there are many reasons for that, [but] Grant Robertson is one … and for that, I thank him.” In answer to the second part of the question, the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update forecast gross domestic product (GDP) growth of 4.2 percent for the year ending June 2023, moderating to 0.7 percent, 1.6 percent, and 2.5 percent in each of the following years. By comparison, the Reserve Bank of Australia estimates GDP growth of 3 percent in 2022/2023 and 2 percent in 2023/2024—a slight moderation on the Australian Budget forecasts. Global economic growth is forecast to be slower and inflation higher than even just a few months ago, and that makes forecasting uncertain. What I am confident in, though, is the resilience and strength of the New Zealand economy, and that both New Zealand and Australia have done well with dealing with COVID and are in a good position to deal with the challenging times that we’re in.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is he concerned that Treasury’s average growth forecast for the next four years of 2.1 percent is a full percentage point lower than the equivalent forecast in Australia?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said, there are changing forecasts all the time. I’ve mentioned the Reserve Bank of Australia. The most recent forecasts in Australia were to see GDP growth of 3 percent and 2 percent, as compared to 3.5 percent and 2.5 percent, as the Australian Treasury did. These are very difficult and uncertain times, but I remain confident in the resilience of the New Zealand economy.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What impact will faster economic growth in Australia over the next four years have on the number of Kiwis moving across the Tasman?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As we know, for many decades we have seen New Zealanders go to Australia from time to time for work opportunities. What I do think is that when you have a Government in New Zealand that is continuing to invest in our people, making sure that they’ve got the skills and the training that they need, making sure that we’re investing in the infrastructure deficit that we inherited and rectifying that, that there will be ever more prosperous growth in New Zealand. New Zealand remains a small country beside a large country, and many countries around the world in those circumstances experience people leaving from time to time. There is every reason to stay in New Zealand, with a productive and resilient economy.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does he believe that inflation outpacing wages for 10 of the last 17 quarters is a major factor pushing more Kiwis to move overseas?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member well knows, 2022 is the only year where inflation outpaces wages in New Zealand. In terms of the forecast period and in terms of the period coming into this, 2022 is a very challenging year. I would note for the member that Philip Lowe, the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia, made the statement just in recent days that Australia’s inflation will reach 7 percent by the end of the year. Most forecasters in New Zealand are forecasting New Zealand to peak at around 7 percent inflation.

💬 Christopher Luxon: How many more months, then, does he expect real incomes to fall?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Treasury’s forecast is that continues through 2022, and then when we reach 2023 we move into a period of time where New Zealanders’ wages outpace inflation. I do note the member’s sudden interest in the wages of New Zealanders, and the failure of the National Party to support measures that might actually increase wages in New Zealand—for instance, lifting the minimum wage or, indeed, fair pay agreements, something that had been a feature of the Australian economy for some considerable time. So if the member is looking for policy ideas out there, perhaps he might look to Australia and fair pay agreements.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What impact will New Zealand’s slide in the IMD Global Competitiveness Rankings—from one spot ahead of Australia in 2017 to now 12 spots behind them this year—have on the number of Kiwis moving across the Ditch?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, that survey is one particular survey. I would say that what that survey tells us is that in the last year, New Zealand has improved its position on real GDP growth, real GDP growth per capita, labour force, long-term unemployment, exchange rate stability, GDP per capita, foreign currency reserves per capita, the unemployment rate, the export of goods. There are many, many reasons to be optimistic about the New Zealand economy. The member might like to talk it down, but on this side of the House, we’re proud of New Zealanders.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Minister aware that in the time his Government has been in place, the gap between the median New Zealand wage and the median Australian wage has grown by $6,600, and if he is aware, what has he got to say for himself?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I am aware of is that all of the agencies who come to look at the New Zealand economy have said that it is in good heart, be that the OECD, who said that the near-term economic outlook is positive and the New Zealand economy has recovered strongly from the pandemic, or be that the IMF, who said that New Zealand’s economy has reached a strong cyclical position enabled by sound management of COVID-19. We will always seek ways, on this side of the House, to improve the wages of New Zealanders. That includes the actions we take, like lifting the minimum wage and introducing fair pay agreements, and it also is in supporting small businesses, making sure that we’ve got the infrastructure to improve productivity. We do need to invest to do those things.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does he agree with Infometrics that now is, in fact, the worst time in 65 years to be a first-home buyer, and what impact does he believe this will have on the number of Kiwis moving to Australia?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That particular study from Infometrics makes its judgment based on, effectively, the capital gain that someone will get over the lifetime of purchasing that house. So they do a guesstimate of what they think interest rates will be over a 25-year period. I think when most New Zealanders are considering whether or not it is a good time to be a first-home buyer, they are considering how easy it is to get into the market. On this side of the House, we’ve done demand side measures such as the interest deductibility removal, such as the extension of the brightline test, such as the ban on foreign buyers, and we’re building more houses than any Government since the 1970s. So I don’t agree with that report—

💬 Christopher Luxon: Outcomes. Outcomes.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —because I actually—well, no, Mr Luxon, whose favourite thing, I might say, is to tap a table and say the word “outcomes” as if somehow or other he’s going to draw that out from the table. The outcome is that more first-home buyers have been getting into homes because of what we’ve done.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Has he seen ASB’s estimate that household disposable incomes over the next 18 months will drop a combined $15 billion, and is he concerned that his Government’s legacy will be more Kiwis than ever before choosing to leave the country?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think that the legacy of this Government will be that we supported New Zealanders to get through the really tough times of COVID, that we supported businesses and that we supported households, that we put ourselves in as good a position as possible to get through these tough economic times, and that on this side of the House, we truly believe in lifting the wages of New Zealand. We’ve taken action to do that, every one of them opposed by the National Party.

Question No. 4—Police

4. to the Minister of Police: What recent reports has he seen on the changing nature of the Police workforce in New Zealand?

Good news: last week, I received the latest report on Police workforce trends. Police have increased their planned recruitment levels for the 2022-2023 year to ensure that they are not only replacing the police officers who are leaving the workforce but they are further supporting Government’s commitment to recruit an additional 1,800 police officers to the front line. Current projections are for recruits graduating from the Royal New Zealand Police College to be in the 750 to 850 range over the next financial year, meaning we’re likely to see between 60 and 80 new recruits on the beat every month.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: With attrition, that’s 10!

💬 Dr Emily Henderson: How will these—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Mr Mitchell, you know how to ask question. You shouldn’t be interjecting during this.

💬 Dr Emily Henderson: How will these numbers ensure that there are adequate police officers on the front line?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The growth in constabulary numbers achieved by these new recruits will mean that Police will soon have one officer to every 480 people in the country. On coming into Government, we did inherit a ratio of police officers to the general population that had fallen to unacceptably low levels, and we’ve been working hard to get those numbers up and to get more police on to the beat.

💬 Dr Emily Henderson: What do these numbers mean for the number of women in the New Zealand Police?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: More good news: for the first time ever, one in four of our front-line police officers—a quarter of them—are women. This represents a 50 percent increase over the last five years in the number of women in the police force. That’s an additional 800 women working on the front line compared to where we were five years ago. For a point of comparison, the previous growth of 800 women in the Police took 22 years to achieve. That demonstrates the acceleration in the diversity of our Police workforce.

💬 Dr Emily Henderson: What other measures is the Police taking to encourage wāhine Māori or other groups historically under-represented to apply to join the service?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: A very big focus for the Police has been on ensuring that the staff reflect the communities they serve. Police’s main recruitment marketing campaign for 2022 has had a specific focus on attracting wāhine Māori. That programme features interviews with wāhine Māori during the recruitment process, talking about their motivations to apply, and the barriers that they are overcoming to become police officers. While the campaign is specifically designed to attract wāhine Māori, experience and evidence shows that these campaigns are also effective at attracting other under-represented groups who may have experienced similar motivations or barriers to recruitment.

Question No. 5—Housing

5. to the Minister of Housing: Does she stand by all the Government’s statements and actions on housing?

on behalf of the Minister of Housing: On behalf of the Minister of Housing, yes, and in the context in which they were made.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: How can she stand by the statement of her predecessor who in 2018 said, “we’re determined to make sure Māori whānau get the benefits of the KiwiBuild home ownership programme”, when new figures reveal a pathetic 4.8 percent of KiwiBuild homes have gone to Māori?

On behalf of the Minister, we can stand by that statement because since then we’ve looked towards resetting KiwiBuild to make sure that it is accessible to more Māori and other peoples in this country, to make sure that our whānau—wherever they might be—can access KiwiBuild homes. But we also stand by that statement because recently this Government has made an over $780 million investment in Māori housing in particular, that has seen quite a large number of whānau being able to build their first homes on papakāinga whenua, but also being able to create a Māori housing ecosystem in places where Māori housing hasn’t been seen for many years.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: What specific changes has she, or will she, put forward to the KiwiBuild programme to ensure greater Māori uptake in light of her own statement that KiwiBuild “isn’t shifting the dial enough when it comes to Māori and Pasifika families”?

On behalf of the Minister, we’re looking to make changes aimed at scaling up the delivery of KiwiBuild homes in locations throughout Aotearoa New Zealand. This includes looking towards the kinds of houses that we are building, typologies that suit a range of needs across our communities, and this also includes the delivery of homes that will be suitable for larger families. Both of these things should provide more opportunities for whānau Māori to purchase KiwiBuild homes.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: What is her response to Māori housing expert and architect Jade Kake, who said the new figures evidenced are “system failure to raise Māori homeownership rates, both through KiwiBuild programmes and across the board”?

On behalf of the Minister, in respect to Ms Kake’s quotes, I acknowledge that we do need to do more work in KiwiBuild, but across the entire Māori housing sector, what we’ve done is we’ve increased kāinga whenua Māori loans—

💬 David Seymour: How much more?

—and the member might want to listen up here. We’ve increased the cap to make sure that we can build houses on papakāinga—kāinga whenua—land. We’ve also invested in Māori housing that’s seeing large-scale Māori housing built across regions, such as Taranaki, Tairāwhiti, and, in recent times, in the Bay of Plenty. So we’ve got a large number of work going on in the Māori housing sector and I do want to note that Ms Kake has also continued to support our announcements on Māori housing, and I stand by the work of this Government to deliver for Māori on housing.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: How can she stand by the Government’s record on Māori homeownership when only 4.8 percent—4.8 percent—of KiwiBuild houses went to Māori; last year’s Māori housing package has only housed—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member’s got a question in there with a bit of repeating.

On behalf of the Minister, the reason why I can stand by Māori housing settings made by this Government is because through Whai Kāinga Whai Oranga, we’ve approved over 675 homes, 286 Māori-owned and occupied homes to be repaired, $5.3 million invested in building capability of Māori housing providers, and 850 infrastructure sites enabled. That’s why this Government’s delivering on Māori housing—something that’s never been done in the past—and we’re proud of it.

Question No. 6—Finance

6. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement on the economy that “the recovery is gaining momentum”; if so, is he concerned that, according to Westpac, “household budgets are being squeezed in a way that they haven’t been for decades”?

I do stand by my statement in its full and proper context: “The economy is bigger than before the pandemic, unemployment is at a record low, and exports are growing. The recovery is gaining momentum in the easing of restrictions, and opening up to skilled workers and tourists will help businesses and the economy rebuild.” With regard to the second part of the question, I’ve stated on many occasions that the challenging situation that is being faced by many New Zealand households and businesses is a top priority for the Government. Indeed, as I noted in the same statement that the member has quoted from in her question, “2022 continues to be a challenging year for many New Zealanders facing the impact of global inflation, and our resilience will continue to be tested.” That is why the Government has taken a range of steps to support low and middle income earners in particular through this period, through our 1 April package of increases to income support, decreases to fuel excise duty and road user charges, and half-price public transport. I’m well aware that these measures are only a contribution to the increased pressure that a lot of households are facing, but they are consistent with the balanced approach that we have consistently sought in responding to COVID-19, which requires us to target support to where it is needed most while making sure that we don’t make the problem of inflation any worse.

💬 Nicola Willis: How can he characterise the economy as gaining momentum when, according to Westpac’s confidence survey, New Zealanders and their families are more pessimistic about the economy now than at any time since 1988?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As we’ve traversed in the House last week, obviously at a time when New Zealanders look around the world and see inflation averaging in the OECD over 9 percent, when they see the impact of COVID-19 on supply chains, when they see the war in Ukraine, of course that is going to have an impact on their confidence, but I also note that Westpac, in their recent report, have said that, while households will be affected differently, demand in our economy is likely to remain resilient.

💬 Nicola Willis: Has he seen a report from ASB saying that households will be $15 billion worse off in the next 18 months because of rising prices and mortgage rates, and if so, how can he continue to claim the economy is gaining momentum?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yes, I have seen that report, and in the following sentence it says, “This looks reasonably manageable, not least because it should be offset by strong growth in labour incomes over the coming 18 months.”

💬 Nicola Willis: Well, isn’t it the case that real incomes are still declining, with prices growing much faster than wages, and can he explain to everyday New Zealanders why they should believe his assessment that the economy’s recovery is continuing to gain momentum?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the second of those two questions, because it’s not just me. It is actually the OECD, it is the International Monetary Fund, it is Moody’s, it is Standard & Poor’s, all of whom have said—for example, with Standard & Poor’s, New Zealand has weathered the COVID-19 pandemic better than most countries in terms of health, fiscal, and economic outcomes. We believe that New Zealand’s relatively better management of the pandemic means that its credit metrics are in a good position to weather potential deteriorations. On this side of the House, we know and understand the pressure that has gone on households. That’s why we’ve targeted our support to those who need it most while the member continues to prefer tax cuts for the most wealthy New Zealanders.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does he agree with the Prime Minister’s assessment that Grant Robertson is one of the factors that has contributed to the state of the New Zealand economy, and if so, does he, with his characteristic modesty, take responsibility for his role in delivering a cost-of-living crisis?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Of course I agree with the Prime Minister, especially if she’s praising me, but on this side of the House we know that this is a difficult balancing act for households. We have, as a country, done well to get through COVID, but we are not immune to what is happening in the rest of the world. New Zealanders know that they’ve got a Government that will support them and look after them, just like we did in COVID. It seems now the member wants to rewrite history and wouldn’t have put the support in that we did. We have to make sure, as a country, that we return to a stable fiscal position, but we aren’t going to do that through the cuts in services that would be required by the member’s policies.

💬 Nicola Willis: Isn’t it correct that the only two things gaining momentum under Labour are the number of New Zealanders going backwards and the Government’s out-of-control spending?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not. And, with reference to the final comment by the member, I think I’ll just quote Brian Fallow from the weekend: “When Christopher Luxon and Nicola Willis peddle this line about out-of-control spending, two explanations are possible. One is that they don’t understand how Budgets are arrived at or the other is that they do but they disingenuously pretend not to in order to pander to the prejudices of their political base.” I agree with Mr Fallow.

Question No. 7—Economic and Regional Development

7. to the Minister for Economic and Regional Development: What reports has he seen on the evaluation of the Provincial Growth Fund?

I recently released an independent valuation of the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) that showed it has made a huge impact in a very short time frame. By providing investments into regions that have been historically underfunded, the Provincial Growth Fund has helped build a strong, resilient economy. For example, the report noted—and I quote—“Importantly, [in the midst of a] pandemic the PGF has contributed to [increasing] optimism within communities.”, and “As well as economic benefits, the [societal], and environmental benefits of PGF were palpable in the interviews with many tangata whenua.” To date, the PGF has committed $3 billion in funding, with $1.87 billion paid out so far. Of the 1,359 projects approved for funding, over 500 have already been completed, resulting in over 16,000 jobs and improved economic outcomes for our regions.

💬 Tangi Utikere: Has the Provincial Growth Fund invested in Manawatū, and if so, what are the benefits?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The Provincial Growth Fund has invested over $700 million in the Manawatū-Whanganui region, with 121 projects funded. A great example of the projects funded is the $2 million grant to extend Fitzherbert Avenue, which starts in the member’s electorate, by 600 metres. As well as providing employment and constructing the road, it opens up access to land for housing development and diverts heavy vehicles off suburban streets.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: Has the Provincial Growth Fund invested in Southland, and if so, what are the benefits?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The Provincial Growth Fund has invested over $70 million in the Southland region, with 121 projects funded. A great example of the type of project funded is the $500,000 grant to COIN South for a three-year pilot programme to develop and foster a regional ecosystem and culture which nurtures and grows innovative, agile, and successful businesses in the Southland region. The original goal was to support 15 start-ups in the first year, but over 100 start-up founders were supported in the first year, with over 250 to date. I would also like to thank members from across the House for their strong support and staunch advocacy for PGF projects in their electorates.

Question No. 8—Prime Minister

8. to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s statements and policies?

Yes, especially the Government’s decision to introduce Matariki as a public holiday. This was celebrated across the country on Friday and, as the Prime Minister said at the dawn service, this is a moment in time that New Zealanders should be proud of. The Prime Minister went on to say, “Many of us did not grow up with or learn the traditions of Matariki, but we now have that chance. A chance to see our own children learn more about this period, a chance to learn from them, and a chance to create our own Matariki moments.” I join with New Zealanders in welcoming this new public holiday.

💬 David Seymour: Does he agree with Chris Hipkins’ statement on Q+A this weekend in relation to last year’s Auckland lockdown that “There were probably some areas we could have moved more quickly to step down some restrictions. That lockdown in Auckland at the end of 2021, I think nerves were pretty frayed by the end of that. And we should acknowledge that.”; if so, will he apologise to Aucklanders for locking them down longer than necessary?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That is not what Mr Hipkins said and it is not what Mr Hipkins meant. I’ve sat around the Cabinet table with Mr Hipkins and other Ministers, and every single decision that we made about COVID-19 came with costs. The costs we wanted to avoid were the thousands of New Zealanders who would have died had we not made sure that we looked after them.

💬 David Seymour: Did the Acting Prime Minister just say that Chris Hipkins did not make that exact quote on Q+A this weekend just been?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The characterisation the member gave of that statement in the second part of his question was that the Government should apologise for locking down Aucklanders unnecessarily. That is not what Mr Hipkins said or what Mr Hipkins meant. On this side of the House, we face the difficult and challenging decision, time after time, as to how to best protect New Zealanders from a global pandemic. We worked hard to support Aucklanders and others through that period of time, and I am extremely proud of the way the Government handled that.

💬 SPEAKER: Before I ask the member, I’m just going to ask Mr Court to turn his volume down and also to remember who he’s addressing when he says “you”.

💬 David Seymour: Thank you for that intervention, Mr Speaker. If a Government Minister has accepted they made a mistake—which I could tell the Minister, as an Aucklander, came at enormous cost to us—why can’t he just accept—

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Oh, that member wasn’t even there.

💬 David Seymour: —responsibility and say sorry? Or was Elton John right—

💬 SPEAKER: Whose interjection was that?

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Oh, sorry. That was me.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: I withdraw and apologise. Thank you.

💬 SPEAKER: Start again, Mr Seymour.

💬 David Seymour: Thank you, Mr Speaker. If a Government Minister has admitted the Government, in hindsight, made a mistake at great cost to us Aucklanders, why can’t his Government own up, fess up, take responsibility and just say sorry? Or was Elton John right—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! The member’s finished his question—

💬 David Seymour: He said “Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word.”

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: I know the member has—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat, he’s finished questions for now.

💬 David Seymour: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I’ve got a right to ask questions on behalf of New Zealanders.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes—

💬 David Seymour: Are you seriously saying—

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, and what I’m saying—the Member will resume his seat—is that when he chips me, when I make a ruling, he loses his supplementaries. That is my discretion and I’ll stay with it. He can have them back tomorrow.

💬 David Seymour: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: David Seymour, supp—point of order.

💬 David Seymour: Supplementary question, yes.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no. Point of order.

💬 David Seymour: Oh, OK. Did you just say that we get all of those supplementaries back tomorrow?

💬 SPEAKER: You will get the ones that you lost today back tomorrow.

💬 David Seymour: Supplementary point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: A supplementary point of order—I don’t know if there is such a thing.

💬 David Seymour: How many did we just lose?

💬 SPEAKER: Every one that you would have taken.

Question No. 9—Education (School Operations)

9. to the Associate Minister of Education (School Operations): What milestones, if any, have recently been met in the Government’s barrier-free access to education work programme?

We have reached the one-year milestone of free period products being available to all State schools in Aotearoa New Zealand. Seventy-eight percent of eligible schools have signed up to this programme. That means in the past year, over 350,000 female or menstruating students have had access to free period products at school. I’ve spoken to many young students in our schools about how the free period products programme has removed barriers to their attendance at school and stigma around menstrual health.

💬 Camilla Belich: What other achievements have been made to remove barriers to education?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: Under this Government, 947 schools and kura have signed up to the Government’s healthy school lunches programme, reaching over 222,000 kids. The programme has been running for two years and is called Ka Ora, Ka Ako, meaning “when you are well, you can learn”, to reflect the importance of healthy food for learning minds. The Government also recognises the importance of mental wellbeing in education, which is why we have funded free counselling in schools programmes for 164 schools and reaching 24,000 students. In addition, we have expanded the Mana Ake mental health and wellbeing programme, which is being delivered in six regions across New Zealand. The removal of financial barriers to education have also been addressed through the Government’s school donation schemes for deciles 1 to 7 and the removal of fees for NCEA since 2019, with more than 145,000 households estimated to have benefited.

💬 Camilla Belich: Why was removing these barriers important for educational outcomes?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: We know that for some young people and their families, the financial barriers to attending and engaging in school every day have been a real challenge. The changes this Government has made to address those are based on evidence, but also from conversations we have had with schools and families on what works. Every time I go into a school that has the free healthy lunches programme, I hear from teachers what a positive difference it makes to both the attendance of the students and their engagement in afternoon learning now that these kids have food in their bellies. This Government will face the challenges of attendance and engagement at school head on, and we will turn this ship around. This Government is committed to doing things better for our tamariki, for the future of Aotearoa, because we know our young people deserve the best.

Question No. 10—Health

10. to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement that the health system as a whole is “coping”?

on behalf of the Minister of Health: Yes. I stand by my full statement: “As the Minister, I look at the system as a whole. I know there are individual hospitals facing very, very serious pressures, but as a whole, the system is coping.”

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he confirm that a letter was sent on behalf of all 20 DHB heads and copied to the Ministry of Health on 28 July last year, warning of the potential for “critical workforce issues”; and does the fact we are 4,000 nurses short almost a year later indicate he failed to act on that warning?

The Government has been aware for some time that our health system was likely to come under significant pressure this year as the borders reopened as a result of two things: COVID-19 and what we fully expected and fully planned for—a more challenging flu season than we have seen, because over the last two years, we’ve seen very low levels of influenza. The Government has been working alongside the health sector to plan for that. I would, however, note that there is a global shortage of trained healthcare workers, and that is something that New Zealand is experiencing—the same as many other countries are. The Government has been working hard to recruit in order to fill vacancies, and of course to train more people. But you cannot train them overnight.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he confirm DHBs warned the ministry in that letter sent in July last year of “increased presentations in emergency departments”; and isn’t the fact thousands of Kiwis are being forced to wait longer than six hours in ED yet another sign he is failing a core responsibility to ensure access to urgent healthcare?

It is a sign of the fact that we are in a once-in-a-lifetime situation when it comes to healthcare. We are like every other country. The member would struggle to find any emergency department anywhere in the world that hasn’t come under sustained pressure over the last two-and-a-half years. In fact, our health system has not experienced the degree of pressure for the duration that many other health systems have. We’ve been dealing with it for this year; many health systems have been dealing with it for 2½ years now.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he confirm that the letter from DHBs sent last year requested immediate action to ensure “overseas health professionals are facilitated to enter New Zealand as required to avert a crisis in the health sector”; and if so, why are nurses still not on the highest-priority migrant list?

In answer to the first part of the question, the Government has been working right the way through the border restrictions period to ensure that health workers can come into the country to fill the vacancies and make sure that we have access to the health workers that we need. In answer to the second part of the question, which I now can’t remember for some reason, there has been ongoing work to ensure—

💬 Hon Member: Why aren’t they on the Green List?

Oh that’s right: the reason that we still have a requirement in place for nurses to work as nurses if they come into the country is because we don’t want them coming into the country and then not working as nurses. That would somewhat defeat the purpose.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Isn’t it true that he was warned by all 20 DHBs almost a year ago of exactly the health crisis being reported today; and that Kiwis in need of healthcare are now paying the price for his failure to act?

What I can say is the Government took seriously the feedback from district health boards. It’s one of the reasons that we still have COVID-19 protection measures in place. I would note that our health system would likely be under significantly more pressure if all of our remaining COVID-19 protections were removed, which some in this House—who sit over on the other side—have been arguing for.

Question No. 11—COVID-19 Response

11. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What recent announcements has she made about boosting the health of New Zealanders throughout winter?

Yesterday, I was pleased to announce that this Government is boosting the health of New Zealanders by making available a second COVID-19 booster shot for those groups most at risk. The second booster will be made available to everyone 50 years and older, and health, aged care, and disability care workers over 30. It will also be made available to people over 16 with a medical condition that increases the risk of poor health outcomes from catching COVID-19. We know immunisation plays a vital role in protecting us from the worst effects of the virus. By introducing a second booster dose for those most at risk, we’re helping Kiwis play their part in staying healthy through the winter.

💬 Shanan Halbert: Who should get their second booster dose?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: We know that staying up to date with the recommended COVID-19 vaccinations will continue to protect New Zealanders from the risk of severe illness, hospitalisation, and death. The Ministry of Health’s COVID-19 Vaccine Technical Advisory Group has recommended the second booster dose for anyone over the age of 65, as well as Māori and Pacific peoples over the age of 50, and people who are severely immune comprised. The ministry will be working closely with providers to target vaccination efforts to these populations. Anyone who is eligible for the second booster dose or is still to get their first booster or primary doses can book online at bookmyvaccine.co.nz or call 0800 282 926.

💬 Shanan Halbert: What other Government announcements has she seen to keep New Zealanders safe through winter?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: More good news. Alongside the second booster, the Minister of Health has announced a widening of access to free flu vaccines this Friday, 1 July. This will mean free flu vaccines for another 800,000 New Zealanders in addition to the million who have already protected themselves and their whānau by getting the flu jab. Children aged three to 12 and people with serious mental health or addiction needs will now be eligible. Omicron and the flu are making this winter more challenging than normal. That’s why the best thing all New Zealanders can do is make sure their whānau are up to date with their vaccinations and boosters.

Question No. 12—Social Development and Employment

12. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What is the percentage increase, if any, of people in receipt of jobseeker support for two to three consecutive years in duration in the March 2022 quarter compared to the September 2017 quarter?

As the member has been made aware last week, there was a minor administrative error in WPQ 12331. The correct number of people who had been receiving a jobseeker benefit for two to three years, as at September 2017, was 11,409. Of those, 5,745 received the health and disability exemption and 5,664 were considered work-ready. As at the end of March 2022, there was a total of 24,192 people receiving jobseeker support for between two to three years. Of those, 11,979 received the health and disability exemption and 12,213 were considered work-ready. While the percentage increase is 112 percent, it represents 12,783 people, of which 6,549 were work-ready. The two- to three-year bracket of those on jobseeker represents those that came on to jobseeker during the height of the pandemic. Due to our targeted investment into work-focused case management, we are seeing record numbers of job seekers moving off a benefit and into work and we’ve not reached the heights predicted by Treasury. Our interventions are working and, while we are not out of the woods yet, we are making good progress.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: When the Minister said, “The last thing that this Government wants is people on benefit for ever and a day.”, how long does this Government believe it is too long for someone to spend on the jobseeker benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: People have varying situations, circumstances, and we need to take that into account. What we do know is that it’s really important to put the investment in early, and what we do know is that when we took over the reins of office, there had been an under-investment in front-line case management work-focused work. As a result of our investments, we are seeing more people exit off benefit into work. We did not reach the heights of 487,000 people on benefit, as had been forecast by Treasury.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Can she explain why, when industries are desperate for staff, the time spent on the jobseeker benefit has increased in every long-term category under her watch?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: When the numbers of beneficiaries go up, then in every category you do see an increase as well. But, as I said, Treasury had forecast 487,000 people on benefit. We got to 397,000; we are currently at 345,000 people on benefit, more broadly. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates currently in the world, and I would like to add that two years after the GFC, there were 13.1 percent of the working-age population on benefit. Two years after the pandemic started, we are at 11 percent of the working-age population. We are doing what needs to be done as a Government.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Is Mike Yardley right that “With tens of thousands of jobs currently going begging, it surely remains a fiscal and moral failure that tens of thousands … able working-age Kiwis are sticking with the dole.”, and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I think was a moral failure was that the previous Government put no emphasis on upskilling and training for people that were on benefit. What that has meant is that over the years there are a number of people who may have gone off benefit but not necessarily into employment—may have gone off benefit into work but ended up back on benefit. The previous Government didn’t think about the long term or the need to invest in people that are on benefit. And we are doing absolutely that.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Why, at a time when industry bodies like DairyNZ are calling for people to fill vacancies where all of the on-job training is provided, has the number of people on the jobseeker benefit longer than one year increased by 62 percent?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member’s question is a reflection of the previous Government’s oversimplified approach to people that were on benefit. There are a number of things that are happening in this space, including, I will add, that it is sometimes difficult to match up those that are on the unemployment benefit with the jobs where they are; geography comes into account, transport, a range of other things with regards to getting to work. So our broader investments—some of which I’ve mentioned numerous times in this House—are all about responding to the complex nature of this, and I do not apologise for being part of a Government that continues to invest in the upskilling and training of beneficiaries so that they can get into sustainable employment.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Why, at a time when businesses are crying out for staff, are there 31,000 more children growing up in benefit-dependent homes, under her watch?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I will add, too, that the Ministry of Social Development has been working very effectively with industries across the country, with regards to their workforce needs and shortages—where they are, what they need. We’ve seen some very effective responses, including at critical times being able to support beneficiaries into the jobs where there have been workforce shortages, like in our supermarkets and in other places. It is important that we match New Zealanders up with the right jobs for them, in the places where they live, and that is a little bit more complex than what that member thinks.