Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Health: What are the next steps that need to be taken to prepare the health system for the reforms due to take effect on 1 July 2022?

With passage of the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill through its third reading this week, we now have our sights firmly set on the reforms going live on 1 July. A critical next step is to appoint permanent governance boards of the new Health New Zealand and Māori Health Authority, who will be responsible to Ministers and New Zealanders on delivering on the promise of Pae Ora. To make these appointments, the transition unit in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet will advise me on the Health New Zealand board members. In relation to the Māori Health Authority, the interim Hauora Māori Advisory Committee will provide Minister Henare and me with advice on the appointment of that board. Alongside this, the Ministry of Health, interim Health New Zealand, the interim Māori Health Authority, and the interim Public Health Agency have been preparing for the operational transition on day one and I remain confident that they are on track to assume full responsibility for health services from that day.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: What next steps are being taken to establish the Public Health Agency?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Steps are now well under way for establishing the Public Health Agency in preparation for day one. The priority is to ensure that all critical data and surveillance systems have been identified, and a plan will be put in place to maintain their functionality over the transition period. The interim agency has already received two tranches of functions in order to test readiness for 1 July and have worked to make sure it can carry out the range of functions it needs to undertake, particularly as it relates to the COVID response and the winter wellness work programme. Another key part of this is the transferring of Te Hiringa Hauora, the Health Promotion Agency, whose core functions will transition to the new Public Health Agency. In the longer term, the Public Health Agency will continue to develop its operational model to fulfil its potential as the lead on public health for the reformed system.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: What next steps are being taken to transfer workforce and assets?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The interim Health New Zealand and Māori Health Authority are now well advanced in their function, design, and planning for the transfer of activities from existing entities, and they will be ready to take on their full range of anticipated functions on day one. The interim entities, having the benefit of early transfers and time to build their organisational structures, are now stress testing their systems to make sure that day one of the reformed health system delivers as expected for patients, the workforce, and providers. This foundational work is critical because day one is only the next step in rebuilding our health system, and I look forward to continuing to report to this House on the benefits of the new system for the health of all New Zealanders.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Isn’t it correct that rather than diverting scarce health sector time and energy into creating new bureaucracy, he should be focused on filling the 3,000 nursing vacancies he described yesterday, which are by far the biggest barrier to New Zealanders getting the healthcare they need today?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Unlike the previous Government, we have remained focused on fixing up our health system pretty much from day one when we became the Government. That member might continue to defend the need for 20 different entities running 20 different administrative systems causing great inefficiency, but we are focused on a streamlined, coherent, well - co-ordinated system that best serves the interests of all New Zealanders.

Question No. 2—Immigration

2. to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by his statement that “this Government supports inclusive policies for migrants with disabilities”; if so, what are some of these immigration policies?

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Yes, this Government supports inclusive policies for migrants with disabilities. The kinds of polices I’d like to point out are: since reopening the refugee quota in February of last year, we have brought to New Zealand 19 urgent referrals from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees where a person or their family member has a disability. Up to 75 places of the 1,500 places in the refugee quota programme can be used for refugees with medical conditions and disabilities. The immigration system needs to ensure it manages the demands it puts on our health system, and this is why we have had a threshold for some time. Partners and dependent children of New Zealand citizens, residents, and refugees will ordinarily be granted a waiver. The Government is currently reviewing whether the threshold is appropriate.

Ricardo Menéndez March: Does he think migrants should be able to access the full functions of the Human Rights Commission and be covered by the Human Rights Act of 1993?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: Well, yes. We obviously want to make sure that we are keeping to our commitments that we’ve made to those, which is why one of the issues we are looking at is whether or not the threshold is appropriate, and also in terms of making sure that we balance our immigration settings with the demands on the health system.

Ricardo Menéndez March: Does he agree with the Labour Party members of the Education and Workforce Committee who said that we need to review the acceptable standards of health so that it is strengths based; if so, will he broaden the scope of the review of the acceptable standards of health policy to look beyond the cost threshold?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: Yes, that’s why we’re doing it.

Ricardo Menéndez March: Does he believe that it is inclusive for the visa application of disabled children born in New Zealand to migrant parents to be rejected in the first instance, such as the case of a two-year-old with Down’s syndrome?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: There are always going to be difficult cases, but there’s always a balance to be had with those cases and the demand on our health system. As I say, we are currently looking at the acceptable standard of health thresholds and whether they are appropriate.

Question No. 3—Housing (Public Housing)

3. to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): Does she stand by her statement in regards to the Housing Register that “we’re doing everything we can to get a roof over their heads”; if so, is she concerned that since she made that statement, the number of Kiwis waiting for a State house has increased by nearly 5,000?

Yes; that is why we have built over 7,000 public houses since we came to office, and housed over 30,000 households from the register since 2017. In answer to the second part of the member’s question, I’m concerned that we inherited a Housing Register that did not have the funding or the resources required to support those in need of a house or to get people off the register, nor did we have a Government build programme that could address the growing housing need. That’s why in Budget 2022 we invested $11.7 million into providing additional support for those on the register and why we have committed to the largest State housing build programme since the 1970s.

💬 Chris Bishop: With regard to the build programme that the Minister’s just mentioned, why has Kāinga Ora demolished or sold more State homes this year than it’s actually built?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: While I can’t confirm that, what I can confirm is that since July last year, we’ve added nearly 900 public houses. The last Government left office in 2017 with nearly 1,500 fewer public houses than when they were first elected. I’ll stand behind our record any day.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon Chris Hipkins.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Can the—

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. Mr Speaker, this has happened again this week, and it’s not your fault, but the traditional protocol is for the member asking the questions to get two supplementary questions before you go wider to other parties; I’ve just had the one. It happened on Tuesday as well.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yeah, you are correct. Sorry, I miscounted. I’ll go to Chris Bishop; sorry about that.

💬 Chris Bishop: Can she confirm that it takes 246 days to house the average applicant on the public housing register; and, if so, when can New Zealanders expect that average to return to 53 days, which it was when Labour came to office?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I can confirm that, but let me be clear: the housing crisis we inherited included fewer public houses and an under-resourced housing register, and a flat-lining Government build programme that has put us in this situation. That’s why we’ve committed to the largest build programme since the 1970s and housed over 30,000 households from the register since 2017.

💬 Chris Bishop: Does she have a target for how long it should take to house the average applicant on the public housing register, and what advice has she received, if any, on reaching that target?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Our target is to ensure that anyone who needs a house gets a house, unlike that Government, who allowed people to live in their cars. People realise that this Government is supportive of them, and they come to us looking for help. We’ve housed 30,000 households, and that, for me, is a great record so far. There is much more we can do.

💬 Chris Bishop: How many independent 16- and 17-year-olds living in motels are currently on the public housing register?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I’m sorry, I don’t have that figure to hand. Please put it in writing and I will address it.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is she aware that according to rental bond data released for the month of April by Tenancy Services, New Zealand has experienced the smallest year-on-year increase in active bonds in the rental market since records began; and is she concerned that this lack of rental supply will lead to continued increases in the public housing register?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: What will support people to get off the register is more housing. That’s why I back this Government’s record in supporting community housing providers to build more public housing—that is how we will get out of this issue—unlike that Government, who, when they left office, there were fewer State houses for people on the public housing register.

💬 Chris Bishop: Has she sought advice recently from officials on whether the removal of interest deductibility as an expense for landlords has increased the number of applicants on the State house waiting list; and if not, will she commission that advice?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Part of that delegation the member refers to is for the Minister of Housing, however in consultation with her, if she feels that it is useful, we will do so. I’m really pleased to see that that member is finally taking an interest in this particular portfolio. This is, I think, only the third time he’s asked a question since he’s taken over that delegation, so I’m grateful that there will be more to come, and that he will take a greater interest in his mahi from now on.

💬 Chris Bishop: When is that Minister going to stop blaming the last National Government and start taking some accountability for the five years of incompetence and neglect that has seen a quintupling in the State house waiting list under this Government?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: When that Opposition actually realise that their record is woeful and hopeless next to ours.

Question No. 4—Māori Development

4. to the Minister for Māori Development: What investment is the Government making through Budget 2022 to strengthen Whānau Resilience?

We’re investing $28 million in two key cohorts who have been disproportionately affected by COVID-19—women/wāhine and rangatahi Māori, young people—through the Whānau Resilience fund. The pūtea will support development, leadership, and culturally focused programmes to lift the skills of rangatahi and wāhine, ensuring they have access to the resources they need to fulfil their aspirations and to act as agents of change for their whānau and wider community. This will be achieved through investment in three Te Puni Kōkiri programmes that we know are working for rangatahi, being Pae Aronui, Taiohi Ararau, and Manawa Ora Rangatahi, as well as a new initiative focusing on strengthening women leadership.

💬 Shanan Halbert: How will the Whānau Resilience initiative contribute to the recovery from COVID-19?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: The best way to have stability in post-pandemic Aotearoa is by investing in women and young people. Wāhine and rangatahi Māori have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, both economically and in their health and wellbeing. Research has demonstrated that local and whānau/family leadership is critical to the recovery and resilience of communities. Te Puni Kōkiri will work directly with communities to develop programmes for women and rangatahi based on local knowledge and intelligence, leading to outcomes and insights on whānau resilience.

💬 Shanan Halbert: How will the Whānau Resilience initiative support wāhine leadership?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: The strengthening wāhine leadership initiative will support projects that promote women in Māori leadership and resilience according to their own tikanga and mātauranga. Community providers in priority areas will work with wāhine participants to build their cultural capability, leadership, and influencing skills, which is really crucial. Robust demographic data and insights on and from women involved with the programme will be collected, with the aim of improving policy and delivery for wāhine Māori across Government.

💬 Shanan Halbert: How do you know the Whānau Resilience initiative will benefit rangatahi Māori?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: The resources—the pūtea—will enable further support for three existing rangatahi programmes: Pae Aronui, Taiohi Ararau, and Manawa Ora Rangatahi, which have proven successful in improving young people’s skills, employability, wellbeing, and resilience. For example, over the three years that the Pae Aronui programme has been running, more than 700 young people have been engaged who otherwise would have classified as not connected to education, training, or employment. Year two saw a 94 percent success rate of young people taking part and achieving education, employment, and training. This funding will enable this programme to continue for another two years and in new areas across the country.

Question No. 5—Transport

5. to the Minister of Transport: What is his justification for continuing to spend money on the NZTA Journey Planner, when there already exists a free navigation service with live traffic data called Google Maps?

We know that Kiwis want to plan their journeys with certainty and good information. Journey Planner is a Waka Kotahi in-house service that was started under the previous National-ACT Government in 2016. Built off the back of a similar platform used in post-earthquake Christchurch, the service provides road users with real-time information services to navigate the fast-changing traffic environment. Journey Planner includes a number of additional features, such as live camera feeds, EV charging options en route, holiday traffic congestion predictions, and real-time roadwork updates. The member will be pleased to know that I’ve signed up to receive alerts from Parliament through to the airport tonight, and I’m happy to pass on that information to him so that he can also enjoy a smooth journey home. No guarantee about the planes tonight.

💬 Simon Court: How much, if anything, is New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) paying Google to use the Google Maps software on its Journey Planner website?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I’m happy to seek further information about that for the member if he’s interested, but I am also advised that, in fact, Waka Kotahi, through this particular app, provides useful information back to Google Maps because of the functionality that’s included in this app that is not actually within the baseline of Google Maps.

💬 Simon Court: In relation to a key feature of NZTA’s Journey Planner website—being the ability to sign up for live traffic updates by email—does the Minister endorse checking one’s emails while driving; if so, is this the “Road to Zero unread emails”?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: No, I think that the member might want to be aware of the fact that this is a journey planner and that New Zealanders will often use it to plan their journeys before they undertake them; secondly, that sometimes people do have people in their cars called passengers. Thirdly, I would point out that in 2021, there were over 1 million page views per month of New Zealanders who found this to be a very useful service. That’s why Waka Kotahi continues to support it, and I assume that’s why the previous National-ACT Government established the service.

💬 Simon Court: Does he feel that spending $2.2 million and counting on a New Zealand Government journey planner—a website which competes against better private sector solutions—plus a further half a million bucks a year in marketing is a responsible use of taxpayer money; if so, why?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I would assume that the member, coming from the party of the market, would acknowledge the fact that there are over 1 million page views per month of the site, indicating that it’s extremely useful for Kiwi drivers and meeting a need that’s not otherwise met in the market.

Question No. 6—Justice

6. to the Minister of Justice: Is the Government committed to equal voting rights for all New Zealanders and regular accountability for all elected members at the ballot box?

Yes. As I’ve previously stated in the House, the Government is committed to every New Zealander’s right to participate in our democracy on a fair and equal basis. In fact, just today I’ve announced that the Government will be introducing a bill to allow Māori voters to switch electoral rolls at almost any time, and this responds to repeated calls from both a number of justice select committees and the Electoral Commission to address the issue of the timing of the frequency of the Māori electoral option. Removing the restrictions that currently lock Māori voters into their roll choice for two general elections will be a significant improvement to the status quo that prevents Māori voters from fully exercising their electoral rights. I hope to see support from that member for these changes, given his recent comments on equal suffrage and the recommendation of Parliament’s Justice Committee inquiry into the general election in 2014, which was done in 2016 under the last National Government.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Have you got a supplementary?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Yes. Getting back to the question, why are equal voting rights for New Zealanders and accountability at the ballot box important?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: For good governance.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Then how can the Government claim it’s committed to equal voting rights when its Ministers voted for the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation) Bill, which allows for two additional representatives to be appointed by Ngāi Tahu, thereby moving away from equal voting rights for all New Zealanders and the ability of voters to remove councillors?

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister is not responsible for the way members of Parliament vote. He’s responsible for Government policy.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker, the primary asked: is the Government committed to two principles? And it flows perfectly to ask, then, why a Government voted for a bill that goes against those principles.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister can answer in so far as he has responsibility.

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: As has just been pointed out by the Leader of the House, that is a local bill that has been brought forward by the Environment Canterbury council, and also Ngāi Tahu, which the Government has supported in order to make sure that that representation and request from the local community can be prosecuted.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he agree with the Ministry of Justice’s advice on the Canterbury Regional Council bill, which said the bill breached the Human Rights Act, in that it draws distinctions based on race, but that breach is justified by the Treaty?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I will also note that that bill has been through the Attorney-General’s New Zealand Bill of Rights Act process and has come through with a tick.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has it? Does he agree with the Attorney-General’s advice in relation to the Rotorua District Council bill, “This proposed arrangement detracts from the key constitutional principle of equal representation in a representative democracy. I consider that there must be strong reasons to depart from this fundamental constitutional principle, and accordingly, to justify the limit on the right to freedom from discrimination.”; and, if so, did he have concerns with the Ministry of Justice’s different advice in relation to the Canterbury Regional Council bill, which equally moves away from equal representation?

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has no responsibility for the issues raised in the member’s question. The issues around the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vetting are matters for the Attorney-General, and the two bills in question are not Government bills.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I actually just asked—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no. If you want to speak to that point of order, you can. I haven’t ruled on it yet, so you can speak to that, not a new one.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: I just actually asked that similar question to the Attorney-General and he said it wasn’t a matter for him; it was a matter for the Minister of Justice because the advice came from the Ministry of Justice. I’m asking about the advice that the Attorney-General did and contrasting it with advice from the Ministry of Justice for which he is responsible.

💬 David Seymour: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. The member asked about the Minister of Justice’s views. Now I, as a member, and my constituents do want to know what the Minister of Justice thinks about these matters—including, perhaps for reference, whether he agrees with the Attorney-General’s report on a matter that he does have wider responsibility for.

💬 Hon David Parker: Speaking to the point of order.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: OK. One more.

💬 Hon David Parker: The Hon Paul Goldsmith, with respect, that’s not what I said at select committee—that was represented to the Speaker there. I said it didn’t fall within the Estimates.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yeah. I’m going to rule the question out of order. The Minister the Hon Kris Faafoi is not responsible for advice from officials from another Minister’s office.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: A new point of order?

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, Mr Speaker, the question was about whether or not the Minister of Justice agreed with the opinion of the Attorney-General, and the Ministry of Justice has the custodianship of electoral law in New Zealand, and the Minister of Justice is responsible for that advice; in fact, there’s a long history of the Ministry of Justice being a good steward of electoral law. So I think it’s perfectly in order for the justice spokesperson from the Opposition to ask the Minister of Justice about whether or not he agrees with the advice of his colleague the Attorney-General in relation to the matter that he’s responsible for.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: And I’ve ruled otherwise. The Minister is responsible only—it’s only relevant to ask the Minister for views on matters that he is responsible for.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: I’m not arguing—well—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. Aroha mai, kua mutu tēnei take? He pātai anō? [I’m sorry, has this issue ended? Are there any other questions?]

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Yes, I’ve got another question. Thank you, Mr Speaker. When did we decide that Treaty principles trump democratic norms that we enjoyed for a century; namely equal voting rights and the ability to throw our representatives at elections?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: No one’s decided that. That’s an assertion that the member is making. I would point out again that the bill that member is asking about has been called on by the locals and the local iwi. I’m not sure if that member whakapapas back to Ngāi Tahu, I’m not sure which iwi he is from, but we want to honour the commitment that that local government body has to make sure that this bill is put before the House.

💬 Hon Michael Wood: Does the Minister continue to support the right of members of the Independent Māori Statutory Board to have voting rights on Auckland Council committees, as established by the Auckland Council legislation in 2012?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: Yes.

Question No. 7—Transport

Tēnā koe e te Māngai o te Whare—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! The question has started so no more interjections. Thank you. Could you start again, please, Marja Lubeck.

7. to the Minister of Transport: What updates has he received on the development of improved travel choices for the residents of the Whangaparāoa Peninsula?

I thank the member for her question on an issue that she has been a strong advocate for. Last week, I approved the implementation business case for the Penlink project, a new 7-kilometre transport connection which bridges the Weiti River between Stillwater and the Whangaparāoa Peninsula. This will allow Waka Kotahi to, tomorrow, award the construction tender and, in due course, for the first sod to be turned. Penlink will offer improved transport choices and reduce travel time for residents around Silverdale, Dairy Flat, and the Hibiscus Coast, while supporting thousands of new houses. Importantly, it will reduce the public transport travel time from the peninsula by around about 20 minutes to the city centre. By getting on with the job of delivering infrastructure projects like Penlink, the Government is demonstrating its commitment to developing a better, more coordinated transport network in North Auckland.

💬 Marja Lubeck: How will the Penlink project support the use of active modes of transport like walking and cycling?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The Government is committed to developing safe walking and cycling infrastructure all around Aotearoa New Zealand. That’s why, alongside the two-lane road, the Penlink project will also include a separated shared path for pedestrians and cyclists. As the Whangaparāoa Peninsula and Dairy Flat areas urbanise in the coming decades, this shared path will form part of a broader network of safe walking and cycling facilities around the region, giving real transport choices to those local residents. The shared path component of Penlink is another example of the Government’s commitment to walking and cycling projects, which is reflected in the record levels of investment we’re putting into real transport choices for New Zealanders up and down our country.

💬 Marja Lubeck: How does investing in transport infrastructure projects like Penlink help to secure New Zealand’s economic future?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Penlink is an investment of around about $800 million, funded by the New Zealand Upgrade Programme which is delivering critical transport infrastructure projects around the country and creating thousands of jobs. Previous Governments have simply not invested enough and have not planned far enough ahead to meet our infrastructure needs. That, in past years, has helped to fuel the housing crisis and made it more difficult for us to reduce our emissions. Our Government is committed to providing this much-needed investment to plug the infrastructure deficit through projects link Penlink, Auckland Light Rail, the Manawatū Tararua Highway, the Mount Messenger Bypass, and the Eastern Busway. Doing so ensures—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Minister has answered that question.

Question No. 8—Immigration

8. to the Minister of Immigration: Does he still stand by his statement that “There’s some evidence that when people come from offshore and get into nursing roles, that they might leave a bit sooner – if they get residence”; if so, how many of the 6 percent of migrant nurses that exited nursing in 2020, referenced by the Minister in the House yesterday did so after gaining residency?

Yes, the exit rate data that is provided by the Nursing Council to the Ministry of Health is based on the overseas origin of a nurse’s qualification rather than their visa status. Another useful measure for exit rates and retention issues was stated by the Aged Care Association, in both the consultation with officials and in public statements by the chief executive, Simon Wallace, that they have a significant retention issue, which can be as high as 48 percent. In addition, the Ministry of Health shared concerns with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials about the retention and exit rates of nurses. This was the point of having a two-year work-to-residence requirement, which the Government has extended to 13 classes of nurses. As I’ve said before, we welcome nurses to New Zealand and offer certainty of residency under our settings. Workforce participation data is not recorded upon the grant of residence for any migrant, as from that point they are free to work for anyone anywhere.

💬 Erica Stanford: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The second part of the question on notice—how many of the 6 percent left after gaining residence—was not addressed, answered, or even got anywhere near addressing.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: I’m going to get the Minister to repeat the answer to that part of the question.

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: As I said in the primary answer, workforce participation is not recorded upon the grant of residence for any migrant, as from that point they are free to work for anyone anywhere.

💬 Erica Stanford: Does the Nursing Council data the Minister used yesterday in the House to justify not offering nurses immediate residence specifically record whether a migrant nurse gained residence before exiting the profession?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I will repeat the section I just repeated: workforce participation data is not recorded upon the grant of residence for any migrant, as from that point they are free to work for anyone anywhere.

💬 Erica Stanford: Then how can the Minister use and rely on that data provided by the Nursing Council to show that nurses are more likely to exit the profession after getting residence, if that data doesn’t actually record that?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: We didn’t rely on that data alone. As I have said a number of times to a number of questions to the Minister, as well as that data, we engage with stakeholders, who told us that there were retention issues, and also with the Ministry of Health, who also told us there were retention issues. That is why we offered a certainty of a two-year work-to-residency pathway for nurses, so we can have them have certainty and also have nurses actually nurse.

💬 Erica Stanford: The retention issues that the Minister is talking about, are those retention issues related to migrant nurses getting residence and then leaving the profession, as he keeps stating ad nauseam in the media?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: As the data suggests, there was concern about migrant nurses and retention as a whole. When we looked at the data, and, again, with stakeholders, and discussed the policy settings with the Minister of Health, there were general retention issues as well. This is why we made sure that there was certainty for those migrant nurses who come to New Zealand, with a two-year work-to-residency pathway.

Ricardo Menéndez March: In light of his previous answer, will he take broader consultation with the likes of New Zealand Nurses Organisation and other migrant nurses to review the residency pathway settings and ensure migrant nurses have equitable pathways to residency to match the likes of doctors and engineers?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: As we have said, we have broadened the access to residency to one type of nurse to 13 types of nurse occupations, and also given them certainty around residence. Again, we are happy with the settings that we have undertaken, because we looked at the data and engaged with the stakeholders, who told us that there were retention issues. We’ve engaged with the Nurses Organisation since the rebalance. They’ve given us their concerns. We’re taking that on board, but we’re happy with the settings as they are.

💬 Erica Stanford: How can he claim that there is evidence that migrant nurses stop nursing, as he keeps saying in the media, when they get residence, when the only two stakeholders he engaged with have stated they have given him no such evidence; the Nursing Council data doesn’t record whether or not they leave when they get residence; and the DHBs don’t record whether or not they leave when they get residence?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I can do that quite easily because the consultation and the issues and the data that we looked at led us to the position that the right setting was to make sure that when nurses come to New Zealand they actually nurse and that we give them certainty of a two-year work-to-residence pathway. Thank you very much.

💬 Dr James McDowall: Why doesn’t the Minister just meet them in the middle and use section 50 of the Immigration Act so that he can fast track residency for nurses and to stop the problem that he’s going on about?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I will repeat the answer that I made in the previous answer: because we believe we’ve got the settings right.

Question No. 9—Conservation

9. to the Minister of Conservation: How will Budget 2022 support emissions reduction and visitor experiences on conservation land?

It’s a great question. Budget 2022 recognises the twin crisis for biodiversity and the climate are intrinsically linked. In support of actions in the emissions reduction plan, the Department of Conservation has been allocated $3 million as part of a multi-agency project to maximise carbon sequestration, the native forests, and has received $10 million to transition more of its passenger vehicles to electric. In addition, Budget 2022 also makes targeted investments into the Department of Conversation to ensure that visitor facilities are providing unforgettable experiences for domestic and international visitors as we reconnect with the world.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: How will Budget 2022 funding support the renewal of recreational assets?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: The Department of Conservation has the country’s largest recreation asset network, covering a third of the country’s total land area, including 14,600 kilometres of tracks, 326 campsites, and 967 back country huts. Budget 2022 provides an uplift of $60 million for the maintenance and renewal of recreation assets so that visitor experiences are enjoyable and safe, and that the asset network is more resilient to natural hazards and extreme weather events. This boost will allow the department to address deferred maintenance on up to 20,000 additional recreational assets per year—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Minister has addressed the question.

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: But there’s so much more good stuff—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, don’t argue with me. Angie Warren-Clark.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: How will Budget 2022 funding support visitor experiences on heritage sites?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Great question, particularly as we go to reconnect with the rest of the world. The Department of Conservation is the manager of the largest number of cultural heritage sites in the country, with approximately 16,000 sites, including 50 heritage icon sites, 11 Tohu Whenua sites, and these are highly valued by local communities. Budget 2022 allocates $13 million for cultural heritage sites, including $4 million for ensuring the quality is uplifted of Tohu Whenua sites, and $9 million for maintenance at significant heritage sites, including reducing the number of vulnerable sites from 300 currently—which is a subject of the neglect of the last lot—to 30 just now.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Nō reira. We come to question number 10 in the name of the Hon Mark Mitchell.

Question No. 10—Police

10. to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, “I reject the premise that gang tensions have increased under this Government’s watch”; if so, how does she reconcile that with at least 23 drive-by shootings over the past two weeks?

Yes, as I outlined for the member yesterday, there is currently a major operation under way in response to the recent escalation and tensions between two gangs. The operation is supported by the deployment of armed offenders squads who are actively conducting search warrants and making arrests. As of today, there have been 24 search warrants carried out, 25 arrests made, and 11 firearms seized along with 666 rounds of ammunition. Just yesterday, police carried out 11 search warrants across Wellington and Hamilton, making 10 arrests and seizing $455,000 in cash. Police also carried out a number of search warrants as part of Operation Cobalt and made three arrests. This Government is backing our Police through record funding and record numbers of new cops, to ensure they can continue their exceptional work in cracking down on gangs and organised crime.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: What measure does the Minister use to establish whether gang tensions are increasing or decreasing?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Well, that’s very interesting that that member should ask that question, because the most harm from serious crime due to gangs was recorded, I believe, in 2010.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Point of order.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yeah, the main part of the question wasn’t addressed. So do you want to ask it again?

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: What measure does the Minister use to establish whether gang tensions are increasing or decreasing?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: When we talk about gang tensions, I could draw the member’s attention to 2009: drive-by shooting in Dunedin, where there were a number of gangs-related houses shot and arson attacks. In 2011, a gang member shot in a residential suburb. In 2016, a 14-year-old was shot in a gang dispute. Another headline that year reads: “Gang warfare coming to a town near you”.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, it was a very clear question—what measure does she use? She’s given us a history on just about every other fact.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: And unfortunately you interrupted her, which is never good because you’re asking me, as a presiding officer, to make a ruling on an answer that has not yet been completed. I was sitting here waiting for it. We’re never going to know now. So the member can go on to his next supplementary.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Another supplementary?

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I’m not giving you another one—if you have one you can ask it.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: What measure does the Minister use to establish whether gang tensions are increasing or decreasing?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The measure that I use is the measure that the Police use, where, for example, in 2010, the number of serious harm incidents caused by gang members was at its highest. I would say that that is a measure of the highest gang tensions.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Will police be able to stop and search gang members without a warrant, solely on the basis of having a firearms prohibition order against them under her Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Bill?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Speaking of firearms prohibition orders (FPOs), I would hope that that member would take the politics out of this and support this Government to pass the FPOs under urgency when they return to the House in August. I would hope that that is the case—if we’re not going to politicise the Police, I would hope that is the case. With regards to the other part of the question: the police have sufficient search and surveillance powers. But can I remind the member that under Operation Tauwhiro there were 743 warrantless searches conducted, so the police are able to conduct warrantless searches.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Minister, will police be able to stop a gang member that has an FPO driving through town, and stop and search them purely on the FPO, to see whether or not they either on themselves have a firearm or in their vehicle have a firearm?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: That’s purely speculative, and I’ve said that the police have the tools to do the job that they need—including warrantless searches. I know that that member would really love to be out there riding shotgun with the boys, and I’m really grateful that policing has changed since the time that he was a police officer. Thank goodness it has.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister currently has a firearms prohibition order bill in front of a select committee coming to this Parliament, and the Prime Minister and the Minister have both stood in this House and said that it has sufficient search powers for the police to use. I just asked a very clear, direct question on that and she has completely failed to answer.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: It was a hypothetical—

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Mr Speaker—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. It was a hypothetical question. The Minister does not have to respond to the hypothesis. Have you got further questioning?

💬 David Seymour: If, to quote the Minister, “soft on crime” is “gendered language”, how would she describe the language, “the member wants to be out riding shotgun with the boys”?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Yeah, probably pretty accurate.

Question No. 11—Disarmament and Arms Control

11. to the Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control: What recent reports has he seen on opportunities to progress New Zealand’s nuclear disarmament priorities?

I’ve seen reports on the first meeting of States parties to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW), to be held in Vienna on 21 to 23 June, which I’ll be travelling to next week as the head of New Zealand’s delegation. The TPNW, which entered force last year, is a milestone in international disarmament efforts. It expressly forbids States to develop, test, produce, acquire, possess, stockpile, use, or threaten to use nuclear weapons. Eighty-nine States have now signed or ratified the treaty, but we still live in a world where 13,000 nuclear warheads exist, and States like Russia and North Korea continue to threaten to wage nuclear war. That’s why it’s so important that New Zealand continues to push strongly to ban the bomb. We are well known as a principled voice in international disarmament, something which has been at the heart of our foreign policy and also who we are as a country.

💬 Ingrid Leary: What is New Zealand hoping to achieve at the first meeting of States parties?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The ban treaty sends a clear message to the nine nuclear weapons States—the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, France, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, and North Korea—that those weapons pose an unacceptable risk to humanity and the planet. Amplifying that message will be a priority for New Zealand in Vienna. It’s also a chance to emphasise the role that international rules and norms play in promoting peace and stability. Russia’s recent threats to use nuclear weapons have demonstrated the absurdity of a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council holding the world to ransom and has shown that now more than ever we need nuclear disarmament and stronger multilateral institutions.

💬 Ingrid Leary: Why is the TPNW important for our Pacific region?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Nine of the 69 States parties to the TPNW are Pacific States and few parts of the world are more familiar with the devastating consequences of nuclear weapons than the Pacific. Decades after more than 300 nuclear detonations by the US, the UK, and France, the legacy of these continues to be felt with environmental damage and multigenerational health effects from radiation exposure. The Pacific recognises that it is not enough just to ban the bomb; we need justice for those who have felt the brunt of it. The TPNW recognises this too, and it will make an important contribution to addressing that legacy.

Question No. 12—Foreign Affairs

12. to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Will she urge the Indonesian Government to stop the abuse of the human rights of West Papuans protesting against the further division of their country into provinces against their wishes?

As we conduct our diplomatic engagement on a range of issues, we fully respect Indonesia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Aotearoa New Zealand continues to register its concerns with Indonesian authorities about human rights situations in Papua. These are issues I discussed personally with the Indonesian President Joko Widodo and foreign Minister Retno Marsudi during my visit to Indonesia in November last year. I discussed these issues again with Minister Marsudi in Paris in February this year. In my engagement with the Government of Indonesia, I’ve encouraged them to deliver on the goals and principles underpinning special autonomy for the benefit of all Papuans, including recognition of the rights of indigenous peoples in Papua.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does she still support the call from the Pacific Islands Forum leaders for the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights to be permitted to visit West Papua, and, if so, what will she do in addition to meeting with the commissioner?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Aotearoa New Zealand supports the Pacific Islands Forum approach for open and constructive engagement with Indonesia regarding the human rights situation in Papua and the leader’s call for the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights to be permitted to visit Papua. When I met with the High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet, in Geneva this year, I was clear that Aotearoa strongly supports the work of the United Nations Human Rights Council and encourages all States to allow access for visits.

Golriz Ghahraman (remote): What steps will she take to ensure New Zealand is not contributing to human rights abuses by importing timber and minerals from Indonesia though produced in West Papua in conditions that deny the rights of the indigenous peoples of West Papua?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: We continue to advocate with Indonesia in relation to human rights issues and the treatment of those indigenous peoples in Papua. Again, we respect their sovereignty. We raise these issues with them. It is upon them to act.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does she support the call from West Papuans for a referendum on self-determination for their people?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: We fully respect, as I said, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Indonesia. A point of difference that New Zealand has to offer other countries is a comparative example in relation to the expression of indigenous rights and interests. But let me be clear. The context for which New Zealand is able to share its experience will differ to other countries. I am aware that these are sensitive issues and that it’s not often easy for other countries to deal with indigenous matters. We continue to encourage active dialogue between all parties within Indonesia to find a way forward, and, if called on, New Zealand will share its experience.