Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. Tomorrow the first round of the expanded Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund will go live, and is focused on working with medium to large energy-using businesses to reduce carbon emissions by switching from coal and fossil gas, and being more energy-efficient. This plan will unlock private investments, support businesses to reduce their costs and improve productivity, and reduce emissions. Reducing our reliance on fossil fuels will help shield New Zealanders from the volatility of international price hikes while reducing transport and energy bills. This policy is estimated to support projects that will make up around one-sixth of our total emissions reductions required between 2022 and 2025, and over a quarter of our emissions reductions required between 2025 and 2030—I think you’ll agree; an excellent programme.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why has the Government still not passed firearms prohibition orders legislation, despite the police calling for these powers more than five years ago?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Just for clarity, these are the firearms prohibition orders that the National Party first floated in 2014; at the time, Anne Tolley said that that work was due to be finished by the end of the year. I believe in 2016 Judith Collins said, “Firearm Prohibition Orders: the development of a regime is well advanced.”—2016. We currently have it at select committee, and so it is due back here in August. If after eight years of consideration the National Party are ready to support the bill, I look forward to them doing it when it comes back to the House.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does she believe that firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) would have helped police prevent the current escalation in gang shootings?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I can’t quite answer on behalf of the member why his party—when in Government—chose not to put forward firearms prohibition orders. We have. It is before select committee. It comes back in August. If this is a commitment from the National Party to expedite it through its final stages I willingly accept their support.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does she agree with Police Association president Chris Cayhill, who said that FPOs without—

💬 Hon Members: Cahill.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I’ll get the member to start again. I’ll take it as a genuine attempt to help with pronunciation.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Does she agree with Police Association president Chris Cahill, who said that FPOs without warrantless search powers would be “useless”, and will the Government include these powers in their FPO bill?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: They have warrantless search powers and they have used them, obviously, in the last month. I think they’ve said even in the last week there’s been, if I recall, until 27 May four warrantless searches executed as part of specifically the tensions that we’ve recently seen in one week, alongside six warranted searches. What I also know is that Chris Cahill said on 26 May of this year, “We think in the medium-to-long term, a gun register will have the most impact on reducing the availability of firearms to criminals”, a policy the National Party did not support.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Will she commit to passing the FPO bill—as soon as possible once it’s brought back to the House—under urgency, and if not, why not?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member is, now, since having given consideration to this bill and not having passed it in 2014 or 2016—that after eight years of consideration you now want it to go through urgency, we would welcome your support. Obviously, it has gone through the normal select committee process; it comes back in August. If the member is proposing urgency for the second and third reading we would welcome it.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Was her police Minister correct when she said, “I reject the premise that gang tensions have increased under this Government’s watch”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is rejecting the implication that Labour policy has directly increased gang tensions, and I support that. There is nothing that the member could point to that the Government has done, when, in fact, we have increased the penalties for firearms; we have removed prohibited weapons, to the tune of 60,000 of them; we’ve seen more asset seizures; we’ve increased the number of police; and we have doubled the organised crime unit, and yet under that party police numbers decreased. So that is why you cannot point to this Government’s actions as having increased tension, but they are certainly responding to it.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why does she have confidence in her police Minister?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because we have the highest police numbers on record, having inherited a period where under the last National Party Government we saw police numbers in one period decline by 300. Because, as I’ve said, we’ve doubled the organised crime unit, and we now have a retail unit to specifically respond to the needs of retailers, and that is because we have record police numbers and are committed to 480 to match one police officer to the population to make sure that we keep up those numbers. We also have additional legislation on criminal seizures of assets for organised crime. We have finally, after much dawdling on the other side of the House, seen the progress of FPOs; we are creating a gun register, which the National Party have not supported; and we increased the penalties for firearms, which the National Party did not support.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Will the Minister of Police still be the Minister of Police after her next reshuffle?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have confidence in the Minister, and I have said that, for all of the reasons that I have outlined. What I don’t have confidence in is that the member opposite will stick to his word when all of the evidence demonstrates that under National the police lose money and people.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The Crown accounts released this morning reflect the strong position the economy is in to manage the impacts of the challenging global economic environment. For the 10 months to the end of April, the operating balance before gains and losses deficit was $9.4 billion, $3.2 billion below that forecast in Budget 2022 in May. This result shows the strong position New Zealand finds itself in despite a highly uncertain global environment dominated by high levels of inflation, which are caused by the ongoing pandemic and supply-chain disruptions and the war in Ukraine. Our strong economic management has meant that we have navigated COVID to be in a better position than many other countries to deal with the challenges that lie ahead. Our recovery is gaining momentum, and the easing of restrictions and opening up to skilled workers and tourists will help businesses and the economy rebuild.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What did the report say about net debt?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Using the new debt indicator, which brings New Zealand closer in line with other countries, net debt is at 18 percent of GDP, compared with a forecast of 16.7 percent of GDP. This reflects the inclusion of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund assets, which are impacted by the volatility of global markets. The level of debt is substantially below the countries with which we compare ourselves. Our debt is set to peak at about half of Australia’s, around a third of that in the UK, and around a fifth of that in the US, measured consistently as a percentage of GDP. The year 2022 will continue to be a challenging year for many New Zealanders facing the impact of global inflation and the ongoing impact of the pandemic; however, our economic and fiscal position is strong. We are one of a handful of countries with a triple A credit rating from the leading ratings agencies, and our strong economic management has also been recognised by the OECD and the International Monetary Fund.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The employment market is continuing to support the economy, with job ads rising in May. The SEEK New Zealand employment report increased 2.5 percent in May, compared with the previous month, to a record high and is up 40.4 percent for the year. BNZ’s economists said the heightened job ads portray exceptionally strong demand for staff at present. They say that the demand for workers was reasonably widespread across regions and industries and is consistent with the official measure of New Zealand unemployment remaining exceptionally low, after the record low rate of 3.2 percent reported for the March quarter in 2022.

Question No. 3—Foreign Affairs

3. to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Is she satisfied with advice received in 2021 from ministry officials which recommended against supporting a global moratorium on all deep sea mining; if so, why?

Yes, I am satisfied with that advice. Our focus is on engaging with the International Seabed Authority (ISA) process as the best means to achieve an outcome that deep-sea mining does not take place unless we can ensure the protection of our ocean through setting high environmental standards. At the most recent ISA negotiations in March this year, New Zealand worked with Chile and Costa Rica to advance a significant proposal to improve environmental decision-making and environmental standards in the ISA regulations. This is a proposal that has since been co-sponsored by the Federated States of Micronesia, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands.

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: Is New Zealand sending a delegation to the next meeting of the International Seabed Authority Council in mid-July and, if so, will Cabinet decide and update Aotearoa New Zealand’s negotiating mandate before that?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I intend to review the negotiating mandate in July—it seems a good juncture before the end of the moratorium period—but can I say that when I adjusted the negotiating parameters to participate in the ISA, part of that was to ensure that an inclusive forum for participation in meetings was able to occur, so that enables in-person and virtual participation.

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: Does the Minister agree with officials’ advice that “While seabed mining offers potential economic benefits, precaution is warranted in the face of uncertain and inadequate information about the marine environment and the effects of such activities.”, and, if so, isn’t a more precautionary approach for Aotearoa New Zealand to support a moratorium on seabed mining under the high seas?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: There’s a number of legs in that question, but if I could plead with the House for, perhaps, a little longer answer, yes, we do agree with the precautionary approach, and it was a part of our revised mandate. Secondly, the reason why we’re participating in the ISA is to ensure that we’re taking a position that is consistent with New Zealand’s own approach to deep-sea mining. Thirdly, the way in which we’re advocating for a high standards environmental protection framework will set a threshold that, in effect, must be adhered to in order for any seabed mining to take place.

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: Point of order. I seek leave to table a briefing from New Zealand Foreign Affairs and Trade of 24 November 2021, entitled Mandate for the Upcoming Meetings of the International Seabed Authority.

💬 SPEAKER: The source of the document and whether it’s publicly available in any other way?

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: It was an Official Information Act request.

💬 SPEAKER: OK. Is there leave for it to be tabled? Is there any objection? There appears to be none.

Document, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.

Teanau Tuiono (remote): How is New Zealand supporting the call of Pelenatita Kara, manager of Tonga’s national campaign against seabed mining, that the New Zealand Government needs to show regional leadership and help to protect Pacific Island nations from extractive activities that will harm the moana and their coastal resources, quoted in RNZ yesterday?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Firstly, can I acknowledge the widespread views across the Pacific in relation to deep-sea mining. It has caused some division between member States of Pacific nation Governments and NGO organisations within their own countries. New Zealand will consider any request for assistance from a Pacific partner where the request relates to developing robust legal frameworks, governance structures, and environmental protections. In line with the sovereign rights of Pacific Island Governments and respect for their mana to assert their own kaitiakitanga responsibilities, Aotearoa New Zealand does not take a position for or against mining on the seabed within the jurisdiction of other Pacific Island countries’ international waters.

Teanau Tuiono (remote): Is the Minister satisfied with the accuracy of the statement in her ministry’s advice that supporting a global moratorium is “inconsistent with Pacific Island States’ sovereign right to chart their own development course, and their mana to determine their kaitiakitanga” when many Pacific leaders are calling for a moratorium to apply countries’ exclusive zones?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I thank the member for the question. I acknowledge just how the differing views within Pacific nations are in relation to seabed mining. There is not a uniform view, but New Zealand will consistently act to ensure that by participating in the ISA we are advocating for high standards of environmental protection to ensure that a mining code can be set, and that those standards must be met in order to mine in any case. What I can say is that jumping straight to a moratorium provides a very difficult point at which countries like New Zealand could be seen to act consistently with our own domestic approach.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Is she prepared for Aotearoa to be complicit in giving the green light for deep-sea mining in Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa when scientists warn of the likelihood of an unprecedented environmental destruction?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I can say that New Zealand has acted consistently and in line with our own domestic approach for high environmental standards to ensure that there is an international standard that could be applied, certainly, to the Pacific, and there would be good merit in doing that. Can I also say that, in terms of the revised mandate, we want to ensure that we continue to advocate for a robust mining code that provides for high environmental standards, as I’ve said; that we signal that New Zealand will vote against a mining code that does not provide for the effective protection of the marine environment, as required under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS); that we will advocate for additional environmental scientific expertise in the ISA to build that body of knowledge; and that we’ll continue to develop coalitions with States, which we already have, who are on the ISA council and who share our concerns regarding environmental protection. Furthermore, we’ll make sure, and have advocated, for inclusive meeting modalities so that those States who cannot participate in person have other means of participating so that they can contribute to this very important debate.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What is her response to indigenous leaders who have called for a moratorium on deep-sea mining in the Pacific, including hapū and iwi in Taranaki, Pacific Elders’ Voice, which includes former presidents Hilda Heine of Marshall Islands, Anote Tong of Kiribati, and Tuvalu’s former Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: What I will say is that by advocating for higher environmental standards through the ISA is a legitimate pathway to ensure that there is a framework to protect the marine environment, and establishing a mining code will give effect to that high environmental standard.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: How does she justify the Government’s position to mana whenua, indigenous groups, and local communities in Aotearoa and across the Pacific who will continue to face decades of expensive and time-consuming litigation to try and protect their moana, as a result of Aotearoa supporting deep-sea mining in the Pacific?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I’m going to—

💬 Hon Nanaia Mahuta: I reject the second part—

💬 SPEAKER: Oh, well, no—I’ll let the Minister answer it, but it was strictly an out of order supplementary.

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I reject the second part of that question; it is simply not true. And in fact, by participating in the ISA to ensure that there is advocacy for environmental protections and high standards in the marine environment, and in the setting of a mining code, that will set a threshold that is not currently there that is consistent with UNCLOS, and that will give greater protections than are already being experienced across the Pacific.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. I’m not sure which part was incorrect, Mr Speaker?

💬 SPEAKER: Well if the member had listened to the answer she would have known.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Will she advocate for a moratorium or ban on seabed mining domestically and internationally to prevent such litigation, meet our international climate commitments, and protect local fisheries and ecosystems; if not, why not?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: The position that New Zealand is taking in relation to our participation in the ISA is absolutely consistent with our domestic position.

Question No. 4—Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques

4. to the Lead Coordination Minister for the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques: What progress has been made in implementing Recommendation 14 of the Royal Commission of Inquiry report into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain?

Recommendation 14 called on the Government to establish a programme to fund independent, New Zealand - specific research on the causes of, and measures to prevent, violent extremism and terrorism. On Friday last week, the Prime Minister and I attended the official launch of the National Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism—He Whenua Taurikura. By establishing the centre at Te Herenga Waka—Victoria University of Wellington, and directly supporting research nationally, we are going further than the original recommendation by the royal commission. The centre will be a keystone in helping us to become a more resilient, inclusive, and safer Aotearoa New Zealand. The launch of this centre is another step in implementing all of the recommendations from the royal commission report, which remain a priority for the Government as we continue to honour those lost and affected by the terrorist attack on the Christchurch mosques.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: Who has been appointed to lead this centre?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I’m pleased that two highly-distinguished academics have been appointed to lead the centre. They are Professor Dr Joanna Kidman—whose whakapapa is Ngāti Maniapoto and Ngāti Raukawa—and Distinguished Professor Emeritus Paul Spoonley. One of the strengths of establishing the National Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism is appointing leadership that can drive this important work across Aotearoa New Zealand. Professor Kidman has been appointed for a three-year term, while Distinguished Professor Emeritus Spoonley has been appointed as an interim director for up to a year to support the establishment of the centre. Both professors are renowned experts in their fields, and will bring a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the role as directors.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: How will this centre contribute to the prevention and the countering of violent extremism?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The National Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism will play a key role in bringing together research organisations, civil society, and Government to research this important area. The royal commission made clear that those disposed to carrying out violent extremism and terrorist acts live in our communities, and so understanding the influences and factors that drive people to this behaviour requires an understanding of what is happening at a family, whānau, and community level. The centre will provide scholarships that support research carried out at a New Zealand university or tertiary institute that will contribute to developing our understanding of the drivers of extremism.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Prime Minister’s assessment about the Budget 2023 operating allowance that “in terms of increasing costs that are likely to be seen by some of our agencies and departments, we’re looking at somewhere in the range of $3.5 billion that will be required to continue to operate as we stand”; if so, does $2.5 billion remain in the Budget 2023 operating allowance following the pre-commitments made in this year’s Budget?

In answer to the first part of the question, I’ve always found agreeing with the Prime Minister to be a sensible approach. The Prime Minister is correct in noting the high level of cost pressures that Government departments are facing. Elevated rates of inflation result in increased costs for the Government, as well as households. In response to the second part of the question, the member is making an incorrect comparison between two numbers. As part of the public finance modernisation work that the Government is undertaking, a number of areas of the Budget have shifted to multi-year funding. As a result of that change, the health budgets and the budgets associated with the two new budget clusters now have greater certainty in their level of funding in the coming years. The estimate of $3.5 billion of cost pressures at Budget 2023 includes some of the areas that are subject to multi-year funding—for instance, the $1.3 billion investment in health cost pressures that we have committed for Budget 2023. Those areas of the Budget that are now on multi-year funding tracks will not be drawing upon the rest of the Budget 2023 operating allowance when we get into the next Budget cycle.

💬 Nicola Willis: Isn’t it the case that the Budget documents printed by the Treasury advise that the operating allowance he has committed next year falls a billion short of what would be required to maintain existing services?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No. As I explained both to the member at select committee this morning and, indeed, today—

💬 Nicola Willis: No, you didn’t.

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —and, indeed, right now, is that the member is not counting, within that number, what we’ve already funded for cost pressures through the multi-year allowance.

💬 Nicola Willis: Has the Minister seen page 46 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update in which Treasury warns that there are only three ways that he can meet the spending track he has committed: reprioritising existing services, increasing tax, or increasing debt?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yes, indeed, I’m very familiar with page 46, and that’s, in fact, where the member could look to discover that, in fact, we’ve already funded the health budget for Budget 2023 and the clusters. There is sufficient funding available for us to be able to meet cost pressures as they’ve been articulated. But also, as we discussed this morning, it is not uncommon for the Budget allowance to change between when it’s set. In fact—

💬 Chris Bishop: It’s very common with this Government. It always goes up under this Government.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —one occasion, for Mr Bishop’s benefit, was in the 2015 Budget Policy Statement, where the operating allowance for 2016 increased to $1.6 billion, and Bill English, a Minister that Mr Bishop might be familiar with, said: “A higher allowance in Budget 2016 means the Government can invest in public services, addressing the long-term drivers of social dysfunction to reduce long-term spending pressures.” Wise words.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can the Minister identify a single occasion when he has not committed more spending in a Budget operating allowance than he said he would in the prior year’s Budget—a single occasion?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again, as we discussed at select committee this morning, the Budget allowance is set through the Budget Policy Statement, normally about five months before a Budget is given out. How it is arrived at is a result of where we want to land on debt or on deficit. On every occasion, we have come out better in terms of our debt position and better in terms of either our surplus or deficit position on the basis of the operating allowances that we’ve done. I repeat: it’s not uncommon. It wasn’t just 2016; it was 2017 and it was 2013, as well, that the previous National Government was above their operating allowance.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can we take it, then, that the Minister is today confirming that in next year’s Budget, he will allocate more than the $4.5 billion he committed to in this Budget and that he knew that when these documents were published, but has no regard for the importance of the operating allowance as a fiscal management tool?

💬 SPEAKER: Any one of the three questions.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not. What this Government will remain committed to is keeping a careful balance on what we do, between keeping a lid on debt, making sure that we return to surplus a year earlier than the National Party did, and making sure that we make up for the nine long years of neglect in public services.

Question No. 6—Forestry

6. to the Minister of Forestry: What support is the Government providing through Budget 2022 to help develop the forestry and wood processing sector?

Budget 2022 demonstrated the Government’s commitment to the primary sector and reaffirms that we see it as the bedrock of our future economic security. For the forestry and wood processing sector, alongside investments made from the Climate Emergency Response Fund, the Government has also made significant investments of $27 million towards the Forestry and Wood Processing Industry Transformation Plan and $29 million to expand the forestry-based planning and advisory service. Both investments are to enable a pathway for New Zealand from a commodity resource producer to a sector generating high-value jobs, delivering development for our regions.

💬 Lemauga Lydia Sosene: How will the forestry-based industry transformation plan support New Zealand’s move to a high-wage, low-emissions economy?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The forestry and wood processing sector in New Zealand is New Zealand’s third-biggest primary sector export earner, contributing between $6 billion and $7 billion per annum over recent years. With increasing global demand for low-emissions materials and fuels, New Zealand’s large forestry estate is a vital strategic asset. It will continue to drive development in both established and new areas—for example, long-lived wood products such as engineered wood products are a viable substitute for emissions-intense materials such as concrete and steel, and the residues from timber processing and harvesting skid sites can be used to generate solid heat energy and produce biofuels, displacing carbon-intensive fossil fuels like coal. Sector transformation will also support New Zealand’s reputation as a producer of premium, environmentally friendly goods, helping to offset and reduce emissions in other sectors. This is vital as trading partners and consumers increasingly seek environmentally friendly and sustainable products.

💬 Lemauga Lydia Sosene: Why is an expanded forestry-based planning and advisory service needed?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The expansion is a key part of the New Zealand Forest Service making a shift to a more customer-focused approach by providing greater access to independent advice on all aspects of forestry planning. This includes improving forestry and land management practices to ensure the right tree, at the right place, at the right time and to adapt to climate change. The expanded services will build greater understanding of the wood supply chain, the forest industry, and provide essential coordination and support for the sector’s long-term investment decisions. In particular, it will support the Government’s climate change goals, including native afforestation and woody biomass forest crops and enable greater reach to a broader group of sector stakeholders.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: What is the current national nursing shortage for each of the four main nursing groups as described in written parliamentary question 11238, and which hospital facilities, if any, are currently impacted by nursing shortages?

In response to the first part of the member’s question, I’m advised that, as at 31 March 2022, nurse vacancies are as follows: enrolled nurses, 101.94 fulltime-equivalents or 12.9 percent of the enrolled nurse workforce; nurse practitioners, 6.25 fulltime-equivalents or 6.7 percent of that workforce; registered midwives, including senior midwives, 310 fulltime-equivalents or 23.8 percent of that workforce; and registered nurses, including senior nurses, 2,663 or 9.63 percent of that workforce. In response to the second of the member’s question, district health boards are responsible for managing their own workforces. Data is not collected at the level of granularity to be able to indicate specific hospital facilities that may be affected by the current vacancy rates across the health system. I point out that there is currently an elevated level absenteeism, particularly of nurses, because of COVID and other winter illnesses that is also putting pressure on the hospital system.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: When he said last year that the health system was well prepared, had he been made aware of the size of the expected nursing shortage at that time?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What I am aware of is that since this Government came into office, it has funded an additional 4,000 nurse roles in our hospital system. Not all of those roles are filled at the moment. But in addition to that, the impact of COVID, particularly Omicron, has seen an elevated level of absenteeism of the health workforce, including nurses. Now, with the winter flu season upon us, that also has put pressure on those workforces.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What advice has he received, if any, on the number of years it will take to clear the current nursing shortage?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The advice I’ve had is that providing the Government is committed to properly funding the health system and supporting the nurse workforce by lifting their pay and paying them properly—as this Government has done, increasing their pay 20 percent since we became the Government, rather than nurse pay going backwards in real terms under the previous Government—then we stand a good chance of filling those vacancies and getting the health workforce that we need to provide the healthcare that New Zealanders want.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What impact, if any, could Australia’s decision to spend $4.5 billion to grow their health workforce have on the size of New Zealand’s nursing shortage?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: That remains to be seen, and, of course, New Zealanders going to Australia go in with their eyes open, and they know that when they go to work in Australia they don’t have the same rights to residency as Australians get working here. They don’t get the same rights from the National Disability Insurance Scheme over there that workers here get under our ACC scheme. Anybody going from New Zealand to work in Australia does not have the same education rights for their children as would happen in New Zealand, and there are a range of other conditions that make Australia a challenging place to secure a workforce. Of course, that is a country—particularly in New South Wales and Victoria—whose health systems were under such extreme pressure that they were in fact overwhelmed by COVID, something that didn’t happen in New Zealand.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Are health officials receiving formal notifications such as section 31s from aged care and a provisional improvement notice from Wellington Hospital showing that due to nursing shortages, it is unsafe for some nurses to practice?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I’m aware that a provisional improvement notice was served on Capital and Coast District Health Board recently because of staff shortages, and that appears to be related to the fact that hospital management hasn’t taken the same steps that other hospitals around the country have done to manage down planned care—which was always expected around this time of the year with the winter flu season—to keep pressure off beds so that those who are being admitted for respiratory conditions get the beds that they need.

Question No. 8—Women

8. to the Minister for Women: What advice has she received on the positive impacts that Budget 2022 will have for New Zealand women?

Analysis from the Ministry for Women found that overall at least $2.34 billion of Budget 2022 is anticipated to have an impact on women and girls. The initiatives that will have the strongest impact for women include the cost of living package, as we know that women are overrepresented in low-income work and part-time work; the Child Support Pass-on Initiative to enable support payments to be passed on to sole parent beneficiaries rather than being retained by the Crown—approximately 82 percent of sole parents are women; over $40 million for support workers’ pay equity settlement and over $34 million for pay parity for early childhood education teachers—both workforces are predominantly women; and, importantly, funding to support the Accident Compensation (Maternal Birth Injury and Other Matters) Amendment Bill—targeted support for those who have suffered traumatic births.

💬 Sarah Pallett: What funding was secured for Vote Women in Budget 2022?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: In this Budget, Vote Women received $7.15 million over six years to continue to support the Mana Wāhine Kaupapa inquiry and $8.2 million over four years to resource the implementation of the Women’s Employment Action Plan, which has a particular focus on women who experience disadvantages in the labour market. This lift in baseline for the ministry demonstrates both the Government’s commitment to gender equality and also the increasing demand for gender-based analysis across Government, NGOs, and the private sector.

💬 Sarah Pallett: What other work is the Government progressing for New Zealand women?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: As the Minister for Women, I can say with confidence that across the Government’s work plan we are delivering for women through progress in areas such as settling historic pay equity claims—and just yesterday I was delighted to sign, alongside my colleague Minister Little, the historic DHB administration and clerical settlement; reducing the gender pay gap—for example, in the Public Service we’ve reduced it by 30 percent; increasing financial and childcare support for sole mothers; and targeting investments in employment, education, and training for women.

Question No. 9—Immigration

9. to the Minister of Immigration: Does he stand by his statement that “There’s some evidence that when people come from offshore and get into nursing roles, that they might leave a bit sooner – if they get residence”; if so, does he also stand by his answer related to who gave him this evidence that “we spoke to the likes of the Aged Care Association and other home-based care stakeholders … we also kept in close contact with the Ministry of Health”?

In answer to the member’s first question, yes. In answer to her second question, yes.

💬 Erica Stanford: Why did he include the Aged Care Association and other home-based care stakeholders in his answer to who he received evidence from, when the only two sector bodies he consulted with—the Aged Care Association and the Home and Community Health Association—have both stated that they did not provide him any such evidence or any suggestion that nurses leave their profession once gaining residence?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: Because when we did engage, at least with the Aged Care Association, they outlined to us that they had concerns around retention of nurses.

💬 Erica Stanford: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table two emails sent to me from the Aged Care Association and the Home and Community Health Association stating they never provided such evidence.

💬 SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.

💬 Erica Stanford: Was the evidence he referred to by “keeping in close contact with the Ministry of Health” recorded data collected by District Health Boards (DHBs) of what migrant nurses do when they resign, or was it simply anecdotes from the Ministry of Health officials, given that DHBs do not keep such records, and therefore wouldn’t be in a position to provide such evidence?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: The evidence that we relied on, in terms of data, I understand, is Nursing Council of New Zealand data, which goes through the Ministry of Health, and which was sourced by Immigration officials.

💬 Erica Stanford: What percentage of migrant nurses leave their profession after gaining residence, based on that evidence he says he’s received?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: As we went through the process of understanding the situation and retention concerns within the sector, my understanding: it’s not necessarily about gaining residence. In 2020, the Nursing Council figures showed that 6 percent of migrant nurses exited nursing, in comparison to 4 percent of New Zealand nurses who exited nursing in that year. When we took our decision around the rebalance, we wanted to make sure that we were making a simple pathway for nurses in order to attract nurses here to deal with retention issues and not make a situation around retention any worse, which was a concern of those who were consulted.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can the Minister explain why he didn’t use section 49 of the Immigration Act to give migrant nurses immediate but conditional residence that would be conditional on them working as a nurse for two years, thereby putting us in a more competitive position with the likes of Australia, who gives immediate residence to nurses?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: We took a decision during the rebalance to give a simple and streamlined pathway to nurses. They, if they stay in nursing when they come to New Zealand, have residence after two years. Now, we have opened that pathway to 12 more cohorts of nurses pre-COVID, and under that member’s previous Government it was only available to aged-care nurses. We have expanded that to a broad range of 13 nurses. The nursing sector is much better off as a result of our rebalance.

💬 Erica Stanford: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I don’t believe that the Minister addressed the question as to why he didn’t use section 49 of the Immigration Act.

💬 SPEAKER: I was about to pull him up for going on too long about it.

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I withdraw and apologise.

Question No. 10—Conservation

10. to the Minister of Conservation: What support will Budget 2022 provide to help protect nature and tackle biodiversity loss?

Budget 2022 sees an additional $400 million invested into conservation, which will provide a significant boost to the implementation of the Aotearoa New Zealand Biodiversity Strategy and protect our threatened species. As stated in our Government’s emissions reduction plan, our native ecosystems also support our climate efforts by removing and storing carbon and increasing our resilience to climate change impacts. Since coming to office in 2017, we’ve invested more than $1.2 billion into conservation, demonstrating this Government’s commitment to protecting nature now and for future generations.

💬 Rachel Brooking: How will this investment help protect biodiversity on land?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Biodiversity and protecting indigenous biodiversity in particular is at the heart of Budget 2022 for conservation. I’m incredibly proud of the fact that $30 million has been allocated for a new national programme for deer management and goat control, delivered in partnership with the hunting sector, to help maintain forest integrity while maintaining hunting opportunities. The Predator Free 2050 goal also received a $64 million boost with more support for inspiring community efforts across the country; innovative tools and techniques and further predator eradication on offshore islands; and a further $27 million, an increase, will provide for the Department of Conservation’s National Predator Control Programme, increasing coverage from 450,000 hectares now to 600,000 per year.

💬 Rachel Brooking: How will this investment help protect biodiversity in the marine environment?

💬 Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Mr Speaker, and colleagues in the House, today is World Oceans Day. We know that the marine environment is facing a range of challenges. Budget 2022 provides $7 million to allow the Department of Conservation to improve their understanding of how toxoplasmosis gets into the Māui dolphin habitat, and enable further action to protect the antipodean albatross, the Whenua Hou diving petrel, and the black petrel. The sum of $14 million has also been allocated to support implementation of marine protection and localised management actions—for example, the work under way in the Hauaki Gulf and the South East of the South Island.

Question No. 11—Police

11. to the Minister of Police: When did she first learn about the theft of licensed firearms owners’ details from a disused Auckland City police station, and what explanation have Police given her, if any?

I was first informed of the incident on 26 May. Police advised me they were in the process of notifying the Privacy Commissioner and have launched a criminal investigation into the matter. They have made arrests and laid a number of charges in relation to the incident. It’s disappointing that this breach has occurred, and I have relayed my concern to Police as to how they securely store information in locations they no longer regularly use. The investigation is ongoing and I expect, as a result, the Police will put measures in place to ensure this does not happen again.

💬 Nicole McKee: So what steps, if any, did the Minister take after being informed of the theft on 26 May, of licensed firearm owners’ sensitive information?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I’m relying on Police to continue to conduct their investigation, but I did express concern to Police that this matter had occurred in a building that was no longer used by the Police.

💬 Nicole McKee: How many licensed firearm owners had their information stolen?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The Police are conducting an investigation, and during the course of that investigation, those details may be known.

💬 Nicole McKee: How can licensed firearm owners have any faith in this Government and the Police to develop and administer a nationwide whole-of-system firearms register when this is the second breach of information in the last three years?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Budget 2022 included $208 million to deliver the firearms register, which will bring our firearms licensing system into the 21st century. This will help ensure situations like this never happen again. As part of the firearms regime modernisation process, significant developments are being made to ensure security and privacy of personal data and information, and this work has already begun with new police online application forms—licensed application forms. All new police cyber-systems are processed through the certification and accreditation framework, which is directed from Government via the GCSB and protective security requirements. The design and build of new systems is carefully revised to meet or exceed the Government’s security controls, which are detailed in the New Zealand Information Security Manual.

Question No. 12—Police

12. to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her statement, “There is no doubt that our communities are feeling some incredible distress with the recent activities”; if so, does she believe gang tensions have increased under her watch?

Yes. As I outlined in the House yesterday, police currently have a major operation under way in response to the recent escalation in tensions between two gangs. The operation is supported by the deployment of the Armed Offenders Squad, who are actively conducting search warrants and making arrests. As of this morning, there have been 23 search warrants carried out, 24 arrests made, 11 firearms seized, along with 300 rounds of ammunition.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Why hasn’t Operation Cobalt, the dedicated gang response unit, been established and set up?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: As I’ve said before, we are in transition between Tauwhiro and Cobalt, and can I just say to the member that Tauwhiro itself was a successful operation in that it conducted 743 warrantless searches, seized 1,724 firearms, 54 kilograms of methamphetamine, and made 1,388 arrests.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: So can the Minister confirm to the House that at a time when we’ve seen 23 drive-by shootings, the country has never seen the level of lawlessness and gang tension currently in the community, that there is no dedicated gang response—Operation Tauwhiro has been stood down and Operation Cobalt has not been stood up?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I absolutely refute that. Every single front-line officer is working really hard to ensure their communities are safe. We have the gang harm reduction unit, we are transitioning between Tauwhiro and Cobalt, and we have invested $94 million to deal with gangs. Every day, that member stands in this House and disrespects the work of the police. I feel for them. I feel for our front-line officers who cannot be supported by the Opposition. I would look to that Opposition to support the police better, to ensure that they continue with our process to ensure that we have one officer for every 480 Kiwis, and that they support the work that we do in ensuring that we’ve got sufficient cops on the beat.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Does the Minister understand that I’m holding her to account and not the front line?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Does that member understand that the Minister is responsible for funding and resourcing the police? The Commissioner of Police is responsible for the deployment, and the Minister does not tell the commissioner what to do.