Te Pire mō te Hararei Tūmatanui o te Kāhui o Matariki/Te Kāhui o Matariki Public Holiday Bill

Members, the House is in committee—I was going to say “for that bill”, but I won’t. The House is in committee on Te Pire mō te Hararei Tūmatanui o te Kāhui o Matariki/Te Kāhui o Matariki Public Holiday Bill. I remind members that they’re able to participate remotely. If you’re on Zoom and want to take a call, please type “call” into the chat, and I’m sure you all know that. You should also use the chat if you want to raise a point of order.

Members, a tabled amendment in the name of Joseph Mooney has been lodged. The scope of this bill is narrow. It is to provide for an additional public holiday to observe Matariki. The bill does not seek to affect any existing public holidays. The amendment would remove Labour Day from the Holidays Act 2003, which would also have the effect of turning the bill into an omnibus bill. I’m ruling the tabled amendment outside of the scope of the bill. I’ll permit some debate on the topic, subject to the usual rules of relevance and repetition. However, there will be no vote on this amendment.

We come first to Part 1.

💬 Joseph Mooney: Point of order, Mr Chairperson. If I could just clarify that it was to ensure that there are only 11 public holidays in the Holidays Act 2003.

CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): Yes, I understand that, and none the less that has been ruled out of order because it is out of scope of the bill.

We come to the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3 and 4, the preliminary provisions. The question is that Part 1 stand part.

Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, obviously, Part 1, clause 3, deals with the business days of the particular days, and it specifies “a Saturday, a Sunday, Waitangi Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday, Anzac Day, the Sovereign’s birthday, … Matariki Observance Day, and Labour Day”. I suppose the big question is—and it is a central question for the Minister—why was no consideration made of reducing the days rather than adding an additional day, which means we’ve now got 12 public holidays, plus the specified four weeks of holiday that New Zealanders are entitled to, which means that when you put all that together, you’ve got 28, plus 12 holidays? Why was no specific consideration made of looking at reducing existing public holidays?

We’ve talked about reducing the one, as an example, of Labour Day, which we think probably is less relevant now. But my central question to the Minister is why was no consideration made of that when the Cabinet considered this and also when working its way through the select committee process? That’s a question for the Minister.

So, in relation to this committee of the whole House, with questions being directed to the Minister, I’m speaking specifically to Part 1, “Preliminary provisions”, “Meaning and significance of Matariki to Māori”—I need to put my glasses on, not my mask. So page 5 of the bill, Minister, underneath “Mānawa maiea te putanga o Matariki”, it goes to the explanatory that “Matariki is the Māori name for Pleiades,”, and further down, in the third sentence, starting “the winter sky, during the last quarter of the lunar month of Pipiri,”.

Minister, in the specialist adviser’s report, with that specialist adviser being Rangi Matamua, at page—if I could refer the Minister in the House to the advice. I was talking about Pipiri—the full name for that—and also the explanatory of the correlation or the relativity of that period of time in the Māori lunar calendar to the common calendar as we know it, which would be for June.

Now, I’m still just looking through the specialist adviser’s report, and I will find that. But for the benefit of all New Zealanders and clarity within this bill, would it not be of, I think, clearer interpretation for the application that “during the last quarter of the lunar month of Pipiri,” it be inserted in there—and I wasn’t at the meeting of the Māori Affairs Committee at the time this was discussed, or otherwise I would have brought it up—that the full name for Pipiri is Pipirioterangi, and that it approximates or is the equivalent of the period of June in the calendar month? So I put it to the Minister and to the committee for consideration that for the purposes of clarity and understanding, for the benefit of all New Zealanders, that that be considered, as has been the advice given by specialist adviser Rangi Matamua.

Mr Chair, thank you. Tuatahi māku e tuku he mihi ki te mema o te rohe Whanganui mō tērā atu pātai ki ahau ki a mātou ki a tātou o te Whare nei. Ka huri ki tēnei pānuitia mai te tohunga o Rangi Matamua, kua kite au i tana pānui ki runga i te pepa nei. Ko tēnei te whakamārama i runga i tana pānuitia ki a mātou. Ko te kupu kei roto i tēnei ripoata ko te ingoa Pipiri anake. Heoi anō ka huri ake ki ngā ripoata o te komiti nui, mai i te Komiti Whiriwhiri Take Māori, heoi anō ka huri atu au kāore e kore he whakaaro, kāore i tērā he tono ki a mātou te Kāwana ki te huri i tērā atu ingoa ki te ingoa Pipiri o te Rangi. Heoi anō koinā. He whakaaro pai ki a rātou ngā tohunga o tēnei pire te ingoa Pipiri, heoi anō ki a mātou me whai atu a mātou te Karauna ki te mātauranga o te kāhui o ngā tohunga e āwhina i a mātou e whakarangatira i tērā atu whakaaro Māori kei roto i tēnei pire. Heoi anō ko tēnei tā rātou nei whakaaro, heoi anō me whai atu a mātou mai i te Karauna. Koinā.

[Firstly, I wish to acknowledge the member from the Whanganui electorate for that other question to me, to us all of this House. I now turn to this statement from the expert Rangi Matamua. I saw his statement on this paper. This is the explanation to us about his what he said. The word in this report is just the one word, “Pipiri”. However, if one goes back to the report of the main committee, of the Māori Affairs Committee, I went back, and it is no doubt that was an idea, but it was not suggested to us, the Crown, to change that name to the other name of Pipiri o te Rangi. So that’s that. It was a good idea to them, the name Pipiri, the experts involved in this bill, but to us, the Crown, we had to follow the knowledge of the expert group who were helping us and venerating other aspects of Māori thinking in this bill. These are their thoughts, which we of the Crown must follow.]

Oh, thank you very much, Mr Chair. Once again—it’s no disrespect—it’s actually a good chance to take the mask off, although I’ve been inspired by the fact that a waiata was able to be sung maskless in this Chamber. I think it’s a sign of good things to come.

Look, in Part 1 of this bill, clause 3—and my colleague Harete Hipango touched on it that it is in here, around about line 7—is talking about “Matariki is the Māori name for Pleiades,” which is fantastic. It’s probably a twofold question to the Minister. One is that I understand there are various names in Māoridom for Matariki, and I know Ms Hipango herself would reference one from Whanganui. How we are going to respect that, because there is not a Māori name; there are many.

The second too is how we are respecting the cultural diversity of the countries, because they’ve chosen to use the word “Pleiades”. Now, that’s a term particularly out of Greek mythology. I will not lecture the committee of the whole House on all the names of the gods, with a small “g”, from Pleiades. Of course, the Japanese call this Subaru.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Tell me five.

No, I won’t. I’m not going to—I’m not that bad. Of course, it’s Subaru, particularly to the Japanese. Those of us who are more colloquial would think of this as the Seven Sisters. Of course, in more astronomical terms, this is Messier 45. So I suppose the question, Minister, is why officials or the people have chosen to be so specific to use Greek mythology—I’d be biased; I like it—but there are multiple, multiple names, and maybe a suggestion of why she hasn’t used the neutral astrological term Messier 45, which would have kept everyone happy, and would have prevented me from having to list off the seven gods in—

💬 Andrew Bayly: Can you please, please—just do it.

No, I’m not going to do it. You know, as a Christian, that it would put me in a terrible position, Andrew Bayly!

Tēnā koe e te mema. Kua huri atu au ki te mātauranga o te kāhui, o ētahi kaupapa, o Te Kāhui o Matariki. Ko te tino whakaaro o ngāi mātou o te Karauna ki te huri ki a rātou, ngā tohunga o ērā atu kaupapa. Kei a rātou, ko te whakaaro rangatira i waenganui i a rātou. Ko Pleiades te ingoa tūturu e mārama ngā tāngata maha o te ao katoa te whakaaro o ētahi ingoa o ētahi kāhui o ngā whetū. Heoi anō ki a mātou he whakaaro pai, he whakaaro rangatira ki a mātou, heoi anō, koinā.

[Thank you to the member. I will now turn to the Māori knowledge of the cluster and other aspects of the cluster of Matariki. We of the Crown think strongly that we should turn to the experts who have expertise in those other areas. They are a rich source of knowledge. Pleiades is the original name, understood by lots of people in the whole world, when they think of names of clusters of stars. However, to us, it is a good idea, a noble idea, and so that’s that.]

Thank you, Mr Chair. If I might, I’ll continue in English. While I appreciate the Minister’s contributions there and, obviously, the use of the terms as we know them in New Zealand, and also respecting that there are different terms, as you mentioned—the rangatira in Whanganui. Yes, just sort of wanting to follow up why we didn’t use the neutral term and just keep clear of what’s sort of just general parlance?

Kua whakamāramatia anō tētahi pātai, heoi anō me whakautu anō ki a koe e te hoa i waenganui i te Whare nei. Ko te whakaaro i waenganui i a rātou te kāhui tohunga e āwhinatia i a mātou. I waenganui i a rātou kei te whakawhiti kōrero a rātou tēnei kaupapa whakahirahira. He aha te mea whakamārama ngā tāngata katoa, ngā iwi katoa, ngā hapū katoa, ngā tāngata o Aotearoa katoa? Ko wai te ingoa Pākehā, ko wai te ingoa Māori, ko wai te ingoa e whakaaro ana a rātou e mōhio ana rātou pai, ā, koinā, ko te whakautu mai ngā tāngata katoa ko te ingoa Pleiades, heoi anō me whai atu a mātou, koinā.

[I have already explained this question. However, I should answer again to you, my friend, in this House. This has been thought about among the advisory committee who are assisting us. They have discussed this important issue amongst themselves. What would be the clearest thing for everybody, for all the tribes, all the subtribes, all the people of New Zealand? What is the English name, the Māori name, what name did they think, did they know, was suitable? The answer from everybody was the name Pleiades, so we should use it, just that.]

Kia ora. Tēnā koe e te Minita, me mihi au ki a koe ka tika, nāu anō i hēpara ana tēnei pire ki roto i ngā tukanga Pāremata, ā, ko tāku pātai e pēnei ana. Ki tō whakaaro he aha ngā oranga he aha ngā painga mō ngā tamariki ki roto i ngā kura, ngā tamariki Māori, ngā tamariki Pākehā, ngā tamariki katoa o Aotearoa, ki tō whakaaro?

[Hello. Greetings to the Minister. I have to acknowledge you for shepherding this bill through the parliamentary processes. My question is this: what, according to you, are the benefits and the gains for children in school—Māori children, Pākehā children, all children in New Zealand?]

Tēnā koe e te mema o te Pāti Kākāriki, ki a koe, Teanau. He pātai rangatira tērā. He aha ngā hua o tēnei pire mai a mātou mai ō tātou nei tamariki, mai tō tātou nei mokopuna, mai i ngā tāngata katoa o Aotearoa? Me huri au ki ngā kupu kei roto i te pire nei. He aha ngā tino hua kei roto i tēnei pire o Te Pire mō te Hararei Tūmatanui o te Kāhui o Matariki?

Ko te mea tuatahi, te whakamaharatanga. Te whakahōnore i te hunga kua mate mai i te aranga ake o Matariki i te tau o mua atu. Ko te mea tuarua te whakanuia i tēnei wā, te huihui tahi ki te whānau me ngā hoa. Kei te mōhio mātou i roto i te Whare nei ko tēnei te tino hiahia mai o mātou i tēnei wā taumaha o te mate urutā. Koinā te whakaaro pai ki a mātou ki te whakapiripiri mai ki te whakanui i tēnei wā. Heoi anō, ko te mea tuatoru, te titiro ki tua, te titiro whakamua ki ngā painga ka kawea mai ki te tau hou. He maha ngā hua i raro i ētahi whāinga mō tēnei wā kei roto i te pire nei, ko te aroha, ko te whakamaharatanga, ko te kotahitanga, ko te manaakitanga, ko te tohatoha, ko te mana taiao—he whakaaro rangatira tērā—ko te hākari, ko te wānanga, ko te noho tahi, ko te atawhaitanga, ko te whakanui, ko te tuakiritanga.

Maha ngā hua kei roto i tēnei pire, heoi anō, kei hea te, ko wai te kākano o ētahi hua, ā, ko te mātauranga Māori, ā, ko ngā mea e pupuri ana mai ō tātou tīpuna mō tēnei reanga, mō ngā reanga maha e whai atu i a mātou. Heoi anō ka puta mai kei roto i ngā tamariki, ngā mokopuna, ngā tāngata katoa, ngā iwi katoa kei roto i te reanga hou ētahi kākano i waenganui i a rātou. He ngā hua o tēnei pire? Maha, maha. He rā, he wā, he wā, he wā—he aha te kupu? He wā kei te huria mātou mō he wā hou mō ngā tāngata o Aotearoa katoa. He whakaaro pai tērā he taima tika. Koinā. Kei a koe, te mema o te Pāti Kākāriki, koinā ngā hua mō ngā mokopuna, mō ngā tamariki o tō tātou nei wā. Āe, koinā.

[Greetings to the member of the Green Party, to you, Teanau. That is a good question. What are the benefits of this bill for us, for our children, for our grandchildren, and for all the people of New Zealand? I should turn to the words of this bill. What are the benefits of this bill, Te Kāhui o Matariki Public Holiday Bill?

Firstly, it is remembrance. The honouring of those who have passed since the rising of Matariki in the previous year. Secondly, it is the celebration of the now, gathering with family and friends. Those of us in the House know that this is our real desire with the burden of the pandemic at this time. That is a nice thought, that we could gather closely together to celebrate at this time. However, the third aspect is the looking to the future, to the good things we can carry into the new year. There are many benefits and purposes included in this bill. There is compassion, remembrance, unity, caring, sharing, environmentalism—that is a big issue—then there is feasting, studying, togetherness, kindness, celebration, and identity.

There are many benefits of this bill, but where, what is it that seeded these fruits? It is Māori knowledge, and those that held on to it, our ancestors, for this generation and the many generations who will follow us. However, in the new generation there will be seeds appearing, from our children, our grandchildren, from everybody, from all the tribes. What are the benefits of this bill? There are many. It is a time—what is the word? It is a time that is being changed into something new for everyone in New Zealand. It is a great idea whose time has come—that’s it. To you, the member of the Green Party, those are the benefits for the grandchildren, the children of our time. Yes, that is it.]

Kia ora e Te Minita mō ēnā whakautu, ā, kei te whakaaro ake au mō ngā tamariki mokopuna, kei te whakaaro ake au mō te katoa o ngā whetū o Matariki, engari ko tāku pātai e pēnei ana. Ko wai te tino whetū ki roto i Te Kāhui o Matariki, ā, he aha te take i pērā ai?

[Thank you, Minister, for those answers. I am thinking about the children and grandchildren. I am thinking about all the stars in the cluster of Matariki. But my question is this: what is your favourite star in the Matariki cluster, and why?]

Tēnā koe e te mema o Te Pāti Kākāriki anō. Kāore, he pātai pai, kei te mōhio koe ko wai taku tino whetū, heoi anō he rerekē mai i ngā kaupapa i raro i te whāinga tahi, heoi anō me whakautu i tērā atu pātai i te mea he pātai pai ki ahau. Āe ko te tino whetū i waeganui i Te Kāhui o Matariki, ki ahau nei, ko te whetū a Hiwa-i-te-rangi. Koinā te whetū me whiu atu ngā whakaaro mō te tau ki mua.

Tuarua koinā te ingoa o taku tamahine, ko ia, āe, ko ia te tino tangata te whakatinana ngā hua o tēnei kaupapa o Matariki, heoi anō, ko ahau tērā.

[Greetings once again to the member of the Green Party. Indeed, it is a good question, because you know very well what my favourite star is. It is not in line with our main focus, but I have to answer it as I like that question. Yes, my favourite star in the Matariki cluster is Hiwa-i-te-rangi. She is the star where we send our plans for the next year.

Secondly, that is the name of my daughter; she is the perfect person to embody the fruits of this Matariki initiative, so that’s me.]

Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you, Minister, for engaging in the kōrero this afternoon.

Look, in Part 1, clause 3, “Meaning and significance of Matariki to Māori”, it marks the beginning of the Māori New Year, also known as Mātahi o te Tau. However, I note that it also says that some tribal groups use the heliacal rising of other stars as their marker of the Māori New Year—in particular, the star Puanga. Other tribal groups and regions also have variations regarding when and how the Māori New Year is observed and celebrated. So my question, Minister, is how has the decision-making process been come to and how has it been formed in determining that the focus will be on Matariki and at this time of year, and not on the other markers that some other tribal groups use and the other stars that they use as their marker for the Māori New Year, and the timing that they do for that?

Tēnā e te mema. He pātai pai tērā. Koinā he kaupapa o maha ngā wānanga i roto i ngā kāhui o ngā tohunga ki te whakapuāwai ētahi ingoa o te pire. Te Kāhui o Matariki; kei raro rā he maha ngā ingoa mō ētahi whetū, heoi anō ko te tino ngako ko te wā o te tau. Ka huri ki ngā iwi o Taranaki pea, kei a rātou ko te tino ingoa o tērā atu wā ko Puanga.

Ka huri ki a rātou ki te Nōta, ko Rehua. Ki a rātou maha o ngā iwi ko te whetū e whiu atu ngā whakaaro ki te Poutūterangi. Kei te whakawhiri, ā, whakawhiti kōrero a rātou, kei te wānanga rātou, ā, kei a rātou e whakatau, e whakaea i tētahi ingoa mō tēnei pire, ko te mea e whakaputa rātou koinā te ingoa he maha o ngā iwi, he maha o ngā hapū e whai atu nei ko te kupu o Matariki. Heoi anō, mō tēnei pire ko te tikanga ko tēnei te Kāhui o Te Matariki, heoi anō kei raro rā ko te Puanga, ko te Poutūteranga e maha ngā whetū anō.

[Greetings to the member. That is a good question. That is an issue that took much discussion in the Māori advisory group, to develop some names for the bill. The cluster of Matariki; beneath this are the many names of other stars, but the nub of the issue is the time of the year.

If we turn, for example, to Taranaki iwi, their favourite name for that time of year is Rigel. If we turn to those in the North, it is Antares. To many tribes, the star they send their wishes to, Altair. They discussed and considered this and they decided, and settled on a name for this bill, and the one they chose was the one that most tribes and subtribes follow, and that is Matariki. So for this bill, the practice is this, the cluster of Matariki, and within that are Rigel, Altair, and many other stars.]

Members, we shall now adjourn for the dinner break, and resume at 7 p.m.

Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.

Members, the committee of the whole House is resumed, but before I go to Part 2, I understand that the Green Party wish to correct a vote.

Thank you. I want to do a point of order to seek leave to correct the vote on Part 1 of Te Pire mō te Hararei Tūmatanui o te Kāhui o Matariki/Te Kāhui o Matariki Public Holiday Bill to add Te Paati Māori votes into it, to be in favour.

Is there any objection? There’s none. Leave is granted.

I’m seeking guidance on how to express—thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): All you need to do is ask permission to correct the vote, and correct the vote.

RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH: OK, I seek permission to correct the vote.

CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): And the vote is?

RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH: To have two votes in favour on behalf of Te Paati Māori.

CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): On behalf of Te Paati Māori?

RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH: Yeah.

Thank you—perfect.

Wāhanga 2 Hararei tūmatanui o Matariki / Part 2 Matariki public holiday