Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. I especially stand by my statement in January that 2021 would be the year of vaccines. When I made that statement, vaccinations around the world had barely begun and New Zealand was just days away from administering first doses—and how far we’ve come. I’m happy to report that, since then, 7,916,149 doses of the Pfizer vaccine and 2,610 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been delivered to New Zealanders. Most importantly, 89.82 percent of eligible New Zealanders are now fully vaccinated against COVID-19. Mr Speaker, if you’ll indulge me, I think we can round that up to 90 percent. The success of the programme rests with those on the front line: the nurses, the vaccinators, the healthcare workers and assistants, the Hauora providers, our Pasifika providers, and the security and site managers. I want to give a particular acknowledgment to rangatahi and young people who have been such a strong part of the campaign—every single person who helped to get one of the thousands to vaccination sites. And my final thanks goes to the 3.9 million New Zealanders who have chosen to protect their whānau and protect themselves by getting vaccinated. We are all the safer because of it.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is she concerned that increasing Government spending by a massive 68 percent in just five years is contributing to the cost of living rising faster than wages?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, as the member will have heard me say in this House, until the phenomena of COVID-19, we here in New Zealand did have wage growth, on average, outstripping inflation from 2018. What you’ll see Treasury reflect today is, of course, that we are not an outlier; we are like many other countries that are experiencing inflation as a result of supply constraints, shipping issues, high consumer demand, and all of that is occurring at the same time around the world, and that is why many countries are experiencing inflation increases, as we are.

💬 Christopher Luxon: If inflation is all important, as she seems to be suggesting, does that mean that she believes the New Zealand Government has no influence at all on the cost of living in this country?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Look, I acknowledge that there will be times when Government policies will have an impact on inflation, because you only need to look at the last time we saw inflation at a rate of 5 percent, under the National Government, and over, then, successive quarters, when they chose to increase GST. However, what we are looking at the moment is a situation where, actually, it is predominantly international factors that are impacting on inflation. However, if the member is suggesting that we should cut Government spending, particularly given, today, the Minister of Finance has pointed to the importance of spending on healthcare—if the member is proposing to cut spending on healthcare, that is his prerogative; it is not ours.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What is her understanding of the relationship between Government spending and inflation?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I just acknowledged in my last question that there are examples of Government policy that have had an impact on inflation. Of course, the most important factor often in New Zealand is monetary policy in what we see in inflation rates in New Zealand. But if the member is saying that we should use fiscal policy and cut Government spending, or increase taxes or price controls, then that is for the member. We disagree with those initiatives, and, again, you’ll see in the forecast suggestion from Treasury today that we’ll see a peak in early 2022 and then their forecast is that it will begin to fall away, and, again, we’ll see real wage growth in New Zealand.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Prime Minister saying that there is not one example of wasteful Government spending that could be cut to reduce pressure on the cost of living faced by New Zealanders, and, if she is, does that include the $51 million spent designing a bike bridge that was, rightly, never even built?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member believes in flat taxes and does not believe in investing in Government services, so that member’s view of waste may not be the same as our view of investment in critical Government services. So that’s a matter for the member. We are of the view that particularly in an economic crisis, in a health crisis, we invest in our people and our core Government services.

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: In light of that last supplementary, can the Prime Minister confirm that the $51 million spent on investigating the SkyPath represented 0.047 percent or 5/100th of 1 percent of Government spending; and does she think that will have a major inflationary effect? [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Before the Prime Minister—well, I’m not quite sure that there was a question there; it was certainly rhetorical. But I am going to remind Erica Stanford that when—if it was Erica Stanford. Which member was it who was calling out? [Member raises hand] Hang on. I’m just going to deal with Nicola Willis first. Nicola Willis will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Nicola Willis: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: No, the member will take her mask off to do it.

💬 Nicola Willis: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: Does the Prime Minister want to—was there enough of a question in that, rather than a statement, for the Prime Minister to answer?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think anything around SkyPath—

💬 David Seymour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Amongst all the fracas and disturbance it was quite a fine question with some very specific numbers. I didn’t hear it. I wonder: would it be OK for the Minister of Finance to repeat it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I heard the question, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I think the Prime Minister heard it. She’s capable of answering it if she so wishes.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: No, hang on. I’m now getting to the point where I have the feeling that possibly accidentally to start with, but deliberately since, there’s been an interference in the process of the House. If this is not a valid point of order, the member will not stay in the House. Chris Bishop—

💬 Chris Bishop: I just wanted to say I didn’t hear.

💬 SPEAKER: No, he doesn’t have one.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, I think for the purposes of the member’s point what was invested in SkyPath would pale in comparison to the cuts that would be proposed in services and investment in New Zealanders were the ACT Party given the chance.

💬 Christopher Luxon: What is the Government doing to constrain inflation now forecast at 5.6 percent next year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: At the same time as we have seen Treasury forecast inflation to hit those rates in early 2022, they are also forecasting that it will fall away and back within the midpoint range for the Reserve Bank beyond that across 2022. In fact, that’s in line with much of the forecasting that we’re seeing at present. So that again points to the international factors that are affecting us as they are affecting the US, as they are affecting the UK, and as they are affecting Canada.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. That was actually a very specific question that was not addressed, which was: what is the Government doing to constrain inflation?

💬 SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat. The member might want to take a lesson from a few of his colleagues: if the members require an answer to a specific question—a specific answer to a specific question—they don’t ask a general first question.

💬 Chris Bishop: It’s got to be addressed though.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no, sorry—the member does not interject when I’m on my feet. I mean, he’s the shadow Leader of the House. It might take him a little time to remember what the role is again, but he will obey the rules. Chris Luxon—Christopher Luxon, I apologise.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Is it Government policy to return inflation to within the 1 to 3 percent Consumers Price Index band, as stated in the remit, and, if so, what is she doing to achieve that policy?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is the domain of the Reserve Bank.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why, after four years of a Labour Government, are prices now growing twice as fast as wages, and does she have any plan to stop Kiwis on the average wage getting poorer?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: In answer to the first part of the question, this Government is not responsible for the arrival of COVID-19, and yet that is the primary driver of what we are seeing in terms of inflation. Of course, in terms of that period pre - the pandemic, you’ll actually see the impact of Government policy, where wages were growing faster than inflation.

💬 Christopher Luxon: Why is she continuing to spend at record levels, despite inflation running at a 30-year high with prices growing faster than wages, making everyday hard-working Kiwis poorer?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: And Treasury has forecast that we will start to see inflation peak in 2022 and then fall back away to the midpoint range again. The investment that we have signalled for the Budget we have also signalled will have a focus, particularly, on two significant challenges for New Zealand: healthcare and climate change. If the member is proposing to invest in neither, then he is answerable to the New Zealand electorate on that.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: Fa‘afetai lava, Mr Speaker. What are the objectives and priorities for Budget 2022?

Budget 2022 will be based on the enduring objectives that were set at the first Wellbeing Budget, and these themselves are based on evidence and advice and data as to where New Zealand needs to focus to meet our long-term challenges and take opportunities that we have. The priorities outlined in the Speech from the Throne will guide the Budget, and they include a focus on the Government’s health reforms. COVID-19 has highlighted how critical a prepared health system is to protect New Zealanders and support their wellbeing. Budget 2022 will make significant investments in establishing the new entities that will replace district health boards. Managing rising costs will be a major challenge in health in coming decades, but we will ensure that these entities have a solid base for tackling that challenge. The Budget will also begin a multi-year approach to funding the health sector. Initially this will be a two-year funding path, and then from 2024 will move to a three-year funding plan, in line with New Zealand’s first health plan.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other objectives and priorities is the Government focusing on?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Budget 2022 will also focus on investing in initiatives to reduce emissions and meet our climate goals. Climate change is one of the most pressing long-term challenges facing New Zealand, and to respond to it effectively, we need to make significant investment across multiple Budgets. A new climate emergency response fund will invest the proceeds of our emissions trading scheme (ETS) to combat climate change and support the transition to a more resilient economy, with investments that will create jobs and boost productivity. The fund has been established with $4.5 billion from the ETS, based on the forecasted proceeds over the next four years.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What is the economic environment in which Budget 2022 will be delivered?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, the Treasury today released its latest economic and fiscal forecast in the 2021 Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update. While Treasury is forecasting a decline in GDP in the September quarter, due to the Delta outbreak, it predicts a bounce-back in the December quarter of 3.7 percent, and annual growth is forecast to average about 3 percent a year from 2023 to 2026. Unemployment is forecast to fall further, to 3.1 percent in the March quarter next year, while wages are forecast to grow 4.4 percent a year, on average, across the forecast period. The strength of the New Zealand economy means that the books will be back in surplus earlier than expected in 2023-2024; net debt will peak at 40.1 percent of GDP, lower than the 48 percent that was forecast at the Budget; and core Crown expenses will drop from their current level of 35.3 percent to 30.5 percent next year, and track at a similar level across the forecast period.

💬 Jan Logie: Does he agree that COVID support made available to big businesses has not trickled down, as wealthy asset owners are nearly $1 trillion richer since COVID began, and, if so, how will the next Budget prioritise workers and whānau?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The problem with that particular description is that it puts into the category of the very rich or wealthy all of the small-business owners and sole traders who dominate those who have got the economic support from the Government. It is also the case that that economic support, in the case, particularly, of the wage subsidy scheme, has kept people in work. I stand proudly behind that.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions on inflation?

Yes, in the context in which they were made. In particular, I stand by my statements that global pressures, including supply chain issues and higher oil prices, are contributing to higher inflation, with the Consumers Price Index growth forecast today by the Treasury to peak in the first quarter of next year before falling across 2022. I also stand by our actions to support low-income New Zealanders at this time, including by lifting their incomes through lifts to benefit rates and the minimum wage. I look forward to the member’s new-found enthusiasm for that.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does he accept that inflation is, as Cameron Bagrie says, “a thief that steals savings, reduces purchasing power, and pressures firms’ margins.”, and, if so, when will he rein in his inflationary spending and address the big rises in costs we’re seeing right now?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member fundamentally misunderstands the situation that New Zealand is in. If he goes back to the Budget, when inflation was tracking at a level that was within the Reserve Bank’s target range, and looks at the spending that the Government has done since then, that spending, that extra spending of $10 billion, has been $7 billion of support for businesses and workers and $2.8 billion worth of support for the health system. If the member is opposing the additional support that we provided to businesses and workers and the health system, he is free to do that; it hasn’t been what his colleagues have been saying.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does he accept taking core Crown expenses to $128 billion next year—68 percent more than when he first became finance Minister—in an already hot economy will raise inflation and really hurt Kiwis?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No. What I do accept is that core Crown expenses are up at 35 percent now in response to a crisis—interestingly enough, the same level they were when the previous National Government responded through to the Canterbury earthquakes—and then they come down across the forecast period to 30 percent and stay steady at 30 percent. Those core Crown expenses are the things that pay for our health system, that pay for our education system, that pay to build State houses—the National Party don’t like doing that, but we know that that is our responsibility.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does he accept his spending is currently contributing to 9.4 percent rent inflation, 28 percent building supplies—

💬 SPEAKER: Two questions.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: —30 percent housing—

💬 SPEAKER: Three questions.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: —9 percent fruit and veges—I could go on—

💬 SPEAKER: You can’t.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: —and that this has seriously increased spending next year will make things even worse?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No, I do not accept the latter part of the member’s question. What I do accept is that global supply chain issues are putting pressure on things like building supplies and on food prices. I presume that the member is now proposing some form of Muldoonist price freeze. Well, again, that’s up to the member if that’s what he wants to propose.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does he understand that with inflation set to go to 5.6 percent next year from 4.9 percent currently and wages not set to grow that fast, we are in a cost of living crisis for Kiwis and he really needs to move on it?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I know is that wages outstripped inflation going into this period of the COVID era and that the Treasury is forecasting that that inflation rate will peak in the first quarter of next year and then by the end of next year, wages will outstrip inflation. I’m not going to be lectured by the National Party about wages, because this is a party that has consistently opposed everything that this Government has done to increase New Zealand’s wages. Mr Bridges, you also have to remember that each time one of your colleagues decides to stand up and ask the Government to spend more money—Nicola Willis on housing or Matt Doocey on mental health—you’ve said, “No. No more spending.”

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Can the Minister of Finance confirm that one of the drivers of an increase in spending in areas like health and education has been long overdue pay increases for people like nurses and teachers and teacher-aides and some of our lowest paid public servants?

💬 SPEAKER: No. No, the member’s not going to because colleagues of the member interjected during the question.

Question No. 4—Social Development and Employment

4. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How has MSD provided support to people and whānau impacted by COVID-19?

Our Government has continued to move fast to cushion the impact of COVID-19 on some of our most vulnerable people, whānau, and communities. We’ve provided over $50 million in additional funding for food banks and support services since the Delta outbreak began. This includes, more recently, our $12 million funding boost to providers who have experienced prolonged lockdowns in the lead-up to Christmas. This has helped reach tens of thousands of people and whānau right across the motu, but particularly in Tāmaki-makau-rau. I want to take this opportunity to thank all our social service providers, the New Zealand Food Network, food hubs, and food banks, front-line staff, iwi, and hapū for their hard mahi, commitment, and dedication to the cause.

💬 Shanan Halbert: How are the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) supporting people and whānau who will need to self-isolate moving forward?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We recently announced $204 million to support individuals and whānau who contract COVID-19 and need to self-isolate at home. This support comes as we enter into a new phase in our response to COVID-19. It underlines the importance of supporting the welfare needs of individuals and whānau who may need additional support to isolate safely. We’re taking a locally-led approach specific to each region and community. This funding will support this approach by empowering our local partners and organisations to deliver welfare support.

💬 Shanan Halbert: What feedback has she received about the MSD’s response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Over the course of the pandemic, I’ve had over 70 check-ins with social service providers and community groups via Zoom. More recently, the Prime Minister and I met with social service providers in Auckland. The main feedback was that Government and MSD had listened and had given providers the support they need to best service their communities. Hurimoana Dennis of Te Puea Marae said that Government support meant they were able to provide a one-stop shop for people. They’d come in for a vaccination, and walk out vaccinated, with food support and, sometimes, even a job. It’s been heartening to see the collaboration and innovation of providers like this who have worked closely in partnership with Government to support those most in need through these challenging times. To all our social service providers across the motu, we say thank you, and we also wish them all a very merry Christmas.

💬 Jan Logie: Does she think it is equitable that beneficiary debt rose from $150 million to $750 million in 2020 with no amnesty, while some of the wealthiest businesses operating in this country took COVID support, posted high profits, and paid dividends to shareholders with no clawbacks from MSD?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: With regards to a debt for MSD clients, this is an issue that was here when we came into Government. We put in our manifesto, coming in after the last election—[Multiple members interjecting]

💬 Rt Hon Trevor Mallard: Order!

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: —that actually addressing debt to Government, which is not just debt to the Ministry for Social Development, but particularly debt to MSD, Justice, and Inland Revenue had to be something that we addressed and we’ve committed to doing that this term.

Question No. 5—Immigration

5. to the Minister of Immigration: What is the total number of workers included in border class exceptions announced this year, and how many have entered the country?

Early on in the global pandemic, the Government recognised that, despite our closed border, we needed to bring in people and their skills as it was safe to do so to support our economic, cultural, and humanitarian objectives. That’s why we set up the class exceptions process to support key industries and services to meet their workforce needs while the border is closed. Overall, we’ve approved over 22,000 workers to come to New Zealand since the border closure, covering health workers, individual critical workers, and workers arriving under class exceptions. The total number of workers eligible for border class exceptions announced this year is 1,335. This includes exceptions that have recently been announced in the latest round where workers will only begin arriving in 2022. Therefore the number of arrivals is correspondingly lower at 565.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can he confirm that none of the 200 teachers announced as a class exception over five months ago have entered New Zealand?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: No, it’s actually 300 teachers. I’d like to inform the member that the process works, that the Government has approved spaces or visas for 300 teachers, and from there it is an applicant-driven process. As you would have heard from the Secretary for Education recently, there’ve been just a little over 100 applications to date and they are in process, and a small number have arrived in New Zealand. I imagine some of those may have been having issues with getting managed isolation (MIQ) places. Some of them may be making the decision to have Christmas with their families before New Zealand, and in some circumstances, circumstances change. Some people plan to be in particular jobs in particular times, as the member will know, and sometimes plans change and things change that delay or scupper those types of jobs being taken up.

💬 Erica Stanford: Can he confirm that out of the 200 dairy-farm workers announced as a class exception six months ago, only three have entered New Zealand?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I don’t think that is particularly the case. Again, what I would say—[Multiple members interject]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member asked a question. I don’t know if she wants an answer, but the House does.

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: What I would reiterate is that it is an applicant-driven process and there are criteria which those applicants have to meet in order to get the visa.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no. Well, the House did want to have an answer and it didn’t have one. It was a very specific question. Do you want it repeated?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I did at the beginning.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry? Can the member repeat his answer so I can hear it?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: Mr Speaker, can I just hear the question again?

💬 Erica Stanford: Can he confirm that out of the 200 dairy farm workers announced as a class exception six months ago, only three have arrived in New Zealand?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I will reiterate to the member that I think it was actually 150 spaces announced earlier this year, and, again, it is an applicant-driven process. If some of those applicants don’t meet the criteria within those visas, they don’t make it to New Zealand. A small number have managed to get a visa, so a small number have arrived in New Zealand.

💬 Erica Stanford: Is the Minister seriously blaming the applicants for these border exceptions rather than a lack of space in MIQ to get into the country?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: No, I’m not doing that. That is the question of the member. What I’m making very clear is that the Government sets aside visas in order for people to come across. And then from there it is an applicant-driven process which has criteria to meet.

💬 Hon Damien O’Connor: Mr Speaker?

💬 SPEAKER: The Hon Stuart Nash.

💬 Hon Damien O’Connor: Supplementary, Mr Speaker.

💬 Nicola Grigg: The saviour of the ag industry!

💬 SPEAKER: Oh, where did that one come from?

💬 Hon Damien O’Connor: Can—

💬 SPEAKER: No, sorry. Who interjected then? Who was it who interjected?

💬 Nicola Grigg: I did, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member will withdraw and apologise. It is getting too frequent.

💬 Nicola Grigg: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Damien O’Connor: Can the Minister confirm that—

💬 SPEAKER: It was Damien O’Connor, not Stuart Nash. The hair put me off, with the mask on.

💬 Hon Damien O’Connor: Trouble with my hearing, Mr Speaker! Can the Minister confirm that, in bringing dairy workers into the country, one of the requirements was that those people be paid fair wages and conditions, and that one of the concerns Immigration had was the charge of rental of $500 a week for a farmhouse being considered over the top?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: There were conditions like that on the visas that the Minister has suggested. One of the things that we’ve had to make sure is that, when we do approve the visas that the Minister is speaking about, those who get those visas approved actually stick to an exact criteria.

💬 SPEAKER: Carmel Sepuloni, could you put your mask on, please.

💬 Erica Stanford: Other than just blaming the applicants, what specific steps has he taken over the last six months to ensure that workers included in border exceptions actually arrive in New Zealand to fill critical workforce shortages?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I refer to the answer to the first supplementary question. The Government enables a certain number of visas within a class exception. It is then an applicant-led process. Within the process around education that the member has suggested first, we allotted 300 visas, and the demand at this stage is much less than that. Therefore, the number of people who have arrived has been lower than expected.

Question No. 6—Police

6. to the Minister of Police: What reports has she seen regarding recent efforts by Police to disrupt organised crime?

I’ve seen a report that the Police recently executed the third phase of Operation Selena, a major operation undertaken in partnership with the New Zealand Customs Service, which has been six months in the making. Last Wednesday, 19 search warrants were carried out across Auckland in relation to the alleged drug smuggling between Los Angeles International Airport and Auckland Airport, which involved the use of baggage handlers. Police arrested 14 suspects and seized millions of dollars’ worth of assets including houses, vehicles, and bank accounts. This brings the total number of arrests as part of Operation Selena to 24. Police continue to strike real blows against organised crime and the supply of illicit drugs in our community, and I’m sure my colleagues in the House will join me in acknowledging the excellent work Police does in this space to keep us safe.

💬 Ginny Andersen: What other reports has she seen regarding the disruption of organised crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I’ve seen a report that, as part of Operation Tauwhiro, Police have seized more than 1,200 firearms, 52 kilograms of methamphetamine, carried out 870 search warrants, and made 1,151 arrests. We have a zero tolerance for organised crime and that is why we’ve provided police with the tools they need to disrupt organised and keep our communities safe.

💬 Ginny Andersen: What additional tools has the Government introduced to combat organised crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Today, we’ve made further progress in our efforts to stamp out gun crime with the introduction of the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Bill. This will prevent those who have committed serious offences from possessing, accessing, or using firearms and make our communities safe. Furthermore, this Government has put a record number of police on the front line, including those with a specific focus on organised crime. We have invested $450 million in Police since we came to office, which will fund an additional 1,800 police by June 2023, and with more than 2,800 police graduating since 2017. This investment in Police means that under this Government, we have the largest police workforce, which is making a significant difference in our ability to disrupt, deter, and combat organised criminal activity in New Zealand.

Question No. 7—Finance

7. to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment that “key long-term environmental issues need to be explicitly acknowledged and responded to as part of the Budget process. They carry serious implications for fiscal risks in the future and cast long shadows on the resilience of the nation’s natural capital”?

Yes, I welcome the constructive and detailed report from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, which provides valuable insights for the continuing improvement on how we budget for environmental wellbeing. The Government is very aware of the need to think long term about how to improve environmental outcomes, which also will help mitigate fiscal risks. In fact, these approaches are core to the wellbeing Budgets that we have put forward and look forward to putting forward again.

💬 Hon James Shaw: Does he agree with the serious shortcomings that the commissioner identified with the Budget process, including insufficient information and advice to allow Ministers to properly weigh up environmental implications?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yes, I do. The issue of the way in which we collect data and report on environmental outcomes in New Zealand is something that we have been working on, and I look forward to the work of the Associate Minister for the Environment, the Hon James Shaw, on the subject of environmental reporting.

💬 Hon James Shaw: I’ll mention it to him. Does he agree with the commissioner that aspects of the natural environment are necessary prerequisites for human health and life, which means that it is fundamentally flawed to directly trade the environment off against other things in Budget frameworks?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I agree to the extent that the wellbeing of New Zealanders is dependent on all of the matters that are covered within the Living Standards Framework. The natural capital and the environmental wellbeing that we have is critical to the way in which the economy operates, the health of individuals, and, indeed—as we’ve been discussing in earlier questions—the fiscal situation. But we do try to look at wellbeing as a whole, and I certainly accept the parliamentary commissioner’s view that, currently, we do not have the information we need to be able to make the decisions. That’s why we’re looking to improve that.

💬 Hon James Shaw: What steps, if any, will he take to respond to the recommendations of the commissioner, including changing cost-benefit analysis and the social discount rate to one that “better reflects the long-term intergenerational costs and benefits that pertain to the environment”?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We will continue to work on the Living Standards Framework and the wellbeing approach to ensure that we genuinely can reflect the state of the four capitals and be able to address those. The individual recommendations we will work our way through. I do note that when it comes to the discount rate, that does not have to be applied. It is the guidance given as part of the CVACC process. We are continuing to look at how we extract better value for money.

💬 SPEAKER: Question No. 8, David Seymour.

💬 Chris Bishop: CVACC—it’s back.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Mr Bishop.

Question No. 8—Prime Minister

8. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her of her Government’s statements and policies?

Yes.

💬 DAVID SEYMOUR: Does she believe that her Government’s fiscal policies affect inflation; and, if so, is she concerned that Treasury forecast this morning that inflation next year will be 5.1 percent when only five or six months ago in May it forecast next year’s inflation would be only 1.7 percent?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: And therein lies the issue. What you can see in the change in forecast is a reflection of what we’re seeing globally. You will have heard both myself and the Minister of Finance reflect, and Treasury themselves confirming, that pandemic-induced international shipping issues, supply chain constraints, high global demand for goods, and, of course, oil prices are all fuelling inflation. The member will also have seen that Treasury is forecasting that that peak point is in the first half of 2022 and are then forecasting for that to change over the remainder of 2022 and across the forecast period.

💬 David Seymour: Is there anything that the Prime Minister can do and influence that will relieve New Zealanders from the rising prices they face, other than borrowing and spending even more money?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, that would then fall on the side of assuming that it’s demand side that’s causing all of the inflationary pressures that we’re seeing, and we know, of course, that this is an issue that is not just being experienced in New Zealand. So if it was solely Government policy, you might see New Zealand as an outlier, and we are not. As I’ve already said, you see the United States, the UK, and Canada all experiencing similar things, and, in fact, as you see many commentators internationally pointing out, you are seeing synchronised economic recovery, which is driving consumer demand at the same time as we have supply constraints, and that is fuelling a lot of what we’re seeing. The alternative, of course, if the member is of the view that it’s solely down to fiscal policy, is that you see Governments take a position of drastically reducing, for instance, investment in services or perhaps even some of the measures that we’ve taken to cushion the blow of COVID, and I’m not sure if that is what the member is supporting but we certainly do not support that.

💬 David Seymour: Does she believe a policy such as mandating biofuel content in New Zealanders’ fuels, announced earlier today, adds to the cost of living, considering the price of reducing a tonne of carbon through that policy is a thousand dollars a tonne when the last emissions trading scheme auction sold New Zealand units for only $68 a tonne?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The first point I’d make is that I doubt we would be in this position were it not for the fact that, unfortunately, the National Government, when they last came into office, removed some of the biofuel work that was put in place over 10 years ago. And the shame of that is that therefore not only do we not have a biofuels industry in New Zealand; we haven’t seen the emissions reductions as well. But to come to the core of the premise of the member’s question, I think what’s having a much bigger impact on prices at the pump is the price of oil currently, which, as the member knows, has increased dramatically in recent times.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister believe that her Government’s housing policies are working in light of Treasury’s forecast this morning that house prices will rise 10 percent next year; and, if not, can she tell the House when they might start working?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, we’ve had a policy of investing heavily in public housing and a public house building programme, of moving or adjusting the playing field to focus on first-home buyers away from investors, of Resource Management Act reform to ensure that we see an increase in supply. And we have, as a result of a combination of these things, 8,000 public housing places, over 3,000 transitional housing places, and eight consecutive records of consents being issued. Of course, we are trying to solve decades’ worth of issues, but I do believe that all of those combined will start to have an impact on our housing market.

💬 David Seymour: Supplementary—

💬 SPEAKER: No, the member’s used his allocation for the year.

Question No. 9—Agriculture

9. to the Minister of Agriculture: What recent announcements has he made on the situation and outlook for the primary sector?

This morning, I was pleased to announce that New Zealand’s annual food and fibre export revenue is forecast to grow by 6 percent in 2022 and crack $50 billion for the first time. This is a significant achievement and a testament to the sector’s huge efforts to keep the wheels of our nation and local economies turning and supply essential products. This Government is incredibly proud of this result, and we are proud of our work to help farmers and growers as we navigate the complex challenges of COVID-19 while continuing to grow our exports. The Government is pleased to support the hard work to meet the strong global demand for healthier food and natural fibres with strong environmental credentials. Growing value, sustainability, and jobs are part of our 10-year food—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! That’s enough. The member answered the question quite a long time ago.

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: It’s good stuff—

💬 SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat.

💬 Anna Lorck: What sectors are forecast to increase their exports in 2022?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: Growth is forecast to be strong across all of the primary sectors. High demand for dairy products, combined with strong export prices, is expected to deliver an estimated 10 percent increase in dairy export revenue, to over $20 billion. Meat export revenue is forecast to increase by 6 percent, to over $11 billion. Consumers also can’t get enough of our fresh fruit and wine—that member will be pleased to know that—with demand remaining strong. This is driving an expected increase in export revenue of 5 percent, to $6.9 billion in horticulture. Forestry exports are going to be up. This is only possible because of the resilience of the forestry businesses and their massive effort to get back on track and tackle the challenges brought on by COVID-19. Seafood—[Speaker signals for Minister to stop speaking] I haven’t got to seafood.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I actually think, between the answer and the supplementary, we have had enough.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Supplementary?

💬 SPEAKER: If the member wants more, she can have it.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Thank you, Mr Speaker. What does the Minister say to the sector, who have expressed concerns that someone will be killed because they are relying on low-skilled workers to drive large mobile plant and machinery, when his announcement won’t see workers arrive in New Zealand for another three months because no managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) space has been set aside for them?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: I think the member is referring to the contracting sector, where, over the past two seasons, we’ve been working proactively with them to, firstly, attract keen people who are capable of driving. Some helicopter pilots have become machine operators. We’ve helped through training, through promotion of Opportunity Grows Here. This year, they still face challenges. They applied for 200 people, and, indeed, the Minister of Immigration and my Cabinet colleagues have approved 200 people. Many of them will be here before a peak period into the autumn. We have been doing a huge amount to relieve the pressure. Can I remind all those employers, though, that they still have health and safety obligations, and it is not right to insist on someone working long enough so that they become dangerous. That is not acceptable in any area of our economy.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I specifically asked the Minister about the allocation of MIQ spots in relation to his announcement, and I didn’t get that answer.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, buried in the middle of it, I think, there was reference to it. I think it was addressed in there somewhere. One of the problems that we have with answers that are this long is I sometimes forget what happened some time ago during them.

💬 Hon Kris Faafoi: Keep them long, then!

💬 SPEAKER: No more supplementaries from that member.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. Is it no more supplementaries from that member, or can others ask supplementaries?

💬 SPEAKER: No other member went for a supplementary. Only that member went for it. If no other members went for it—

💬 Hon Members: Supplementary?

💬 SPEAKER: No. Those members will resume their seats. I have indicated that I have thought that the answers from this Minister were excessive—excessively long. Both the primary and the supplementary had to be stopped. I think the House has had a surplus of information from this Minister, and we are moving on to question No. 10 in the name of Mark Mitchell.

Question No. 10—Police

10. to the Minister of Police: Will the Firearms Prohibition Order Bill be introduced by the end of this year, and is the Government committed to introducing firearms prohibition orders?

Firstly, can I congratulate the member on his new position and thank him for his question. This Government is committed to addressing firearms violence and its impact on our communities. That is why today we are taking an important next step to combat firearms violence with the introduction of the Firearms Prohibition Orders Legislation Bill. The bill adds a further layer of protection for the public by prohibiting high—

💬 SPEAKER: I’m sorry. I am going to finish the end of the year in a way which is, you know, indicating to Ministers the inappropriate approach. The answer to this question should have been, “Yes. It was introduced today”—you know—“and I’m committed to it.” It’s a very simple question in two parts and it didn’t ask for reasoning.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: What concerns does she have that police have attended over 1,300 incidents involving firearms since she said on 11 May she would introduce legislation, in her words “[to] provide an extra tool for Police to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, and to keep our communities safe.”?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: In response to some real concerns about not only safety of our front-line staff but also our community, this Government instituted the tactical response model with the police, which does several things. The first thing it does is it increases the capability and training for front-line police, and it comes directly off the front-line safety enhancement course that was put in place after the tragic death of Matthew Hunt. What this does—and anyone who has taken this course will tell you—is it gives them real confidence in their ability to make judgments about their safety in going into situations. On top of that, we have improved the ability for our communities to be safe. We’ve taken 60,000 military-style weapons out of circulation. We are introducing, after 30 years of not having one, an arms register, which will give our front-line police a real indication of the number of firearms in our communities. It takes courage and it takes leadership to do these kinds of things. When under National what happened was police numbers dropped. We have made sure that we have kept our promise of not only increasing our police but also since 2017 we have recruited 2,800 police. Those are the measures we are taking to keep our front-line police safe and our communities safe.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Why has it taken her until the last sitting day of the year to introduce this bill when police officers are facing growing gun violence?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Because we decided to take the time to get this bill absolutely right. There was a bill that was in this House, introduced by a member of this House, which basically was not up to scratch and there was a significant rework that was done on that particular bill by the select committee. We know that this work is so important we have to give it the time to get it right.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Why, when police officers are being shot on the streets as recently as the last fortnight, did it take the Minister seven months to bring this bill on the last sitting day of the House?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: If that member thinks that the firearms prohibition orders legislation is the only thing that this Government has done to keep the front line safe, then he is sorely mistaken. Under his time as a Cabinet Minister in the last National Government, can he put his hand on his heart and say he did everything to keep the front line safe? No, he cannot, because what they did was they reduced the numbers on the front line to such a significant impact that it had an impact on safety of police. What we have done is we have increased police numbers. We have taken 60,000 military-style weapons out of circulation. We have made sure that the arms register, which will be instrumental in knowing how many firearms we have in our community, is being re-instituted. That will have a huge impact on the safety of police.

Question No. 11—Transport

11. to the Minister of Transport: What recent reports has he seen about the Clean Car package?

I’ve seen some very positive recent reports which note that since the Government launched the Clean Car Discount scheme in July of this year, there have been more than 8,500 electric vehicle (EV) registrations in New Zealand, more than for the whole period between 2013 and 2018. There are now nearly 36,000 EVs registered on our roads; that’s over seven times more than the fewer than 5,000 that were on the roads when we came into office. Of all the EVs on our roads, nearly a quarter today have been registered since July, when the Clean Car Discount began. The continuing success of our Clean Car package underscores that tackling climate change is a priority for this Government. Reaching our goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050 will unclog our cities, clean up our air, and create sustainable jobs across the country.

💬 Greg O’Connor: What other reports has he seen on the Clean Car package?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I’ve seen further reports noting that in the three months following the introduction of the Clean Car Discount in July, the average monthly emissions of new vehicles being imported into New Zealand fell by 15 percent. It previously took eight years to achieve a similar drop in emissions across the new imported fleet. So we have clear evidence on the table that our Clean Car package is helping to drive down emissions quickly and giving Kiwis access to cheaper clean vehicles.

💬 Greg O’Connor: Further supplementary—what reports has he seen from the industry on the Clean Car package?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Very positive reports have come to my attention. The Toyota New Zealand chief executive, Neeraj Lala, said recently that he admired the Government’s work to tackle climate change and that our decision to introduce legislation targeting vehicle emissions has helped Toyota New Zealand secure more low-emissions and hybrid vehicles from its Japanese parent. The Imported Motor Vehicle Industry Association head, David Vincent, has backed our policy, saying, “We want to be on the right side of history and we want to be part of the solution and not the problem.” They are very much part of the solution, and I thank them for their work on my Clean Car Leadership Group. Finally, Robyn Denholm, global chair of Tesla Incorporated, called the Government’s Clean Car Discount scheme “world class”, and said that “the clean car standards before your parliament will put Aotearoa in among the cleanest, safest vehicle fleets in the world and that is decisive leadership.”

Question No. 12—Local Government

12. to the Minister of Local Government: Is it the case that she did not confirm to local councils until late October that Cabinet had decided on a “legislated all-in” approach to Three Waters in June; if so, why?

The option to have a legislated all-in approach was signalled as early as December 2020, following a Cabinet decision that was publicly released. I can also confirm that to ensure the success of the three waters reform, and that it will benefit every community and/or ratepayers, an all-in approach was always an option and factored into an aggregated model of water services delivery. Furthermore, the Government didn’t make a final decision to progress with reform on a legislated all-in basis until 18 October 2021, following the local government conference and the eight-week engagement period to ensure feedback from the sector.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. Mr Speaker, that was a primary question on notice. I think the first leg was addressed in relation to the confirmation, but there’s a second leg, which is the “why”, and I don’t believe the Minister addressed the “why”?

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I think the whole lead into it was the reasoning behind it.

💬 Chris Bishop: Mr Speaker—

💬 SPEAKER: No. Is the member going to argue with me? I have ruled that the member addressed the question. She certainly did—both parts of it.

💬 Simon Watts: What does she say to local councillors and mayors who entered consultation in August in good faith, expecting their concerns to be considered, but now see the decisions had already been made months before consultation with them had even begun?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I continue to say that the Government is responsive to the concerns that have been reflected by local government. We have remained agile in our response. That is why we ensured an eight-week consultation period on the advice of Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ). That is why we took on board the concerns of the sector and that is why we established the working group which is now advising on the way in which legislation can proceed. I’m really pleased that I can meet with those few mayors who are here today, at about 4.30, to be able to continue to listen to them and hear their concerns, but, more importantly, find a way that we can work towards a solution. And at least this Government has a solution, because there is no alternative on the other side of the House.

💬 Simon Watts: So how can local councillors and mayors have any faith that their concerns about the Government’s three waters proposal will be taken seriously when the Government withheld that a legislated all-in approach had already been agreed to for the entirety of the consultation process?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That is not correct, and, in fact, two decades of under-investment in water infrastructure should be sufficiently of concern to members of the Opposition, who, when they were in Government, did nothing about it. At least this Government has a solution. At least this Government is trying to find a way to work with this sector so that they continue to remain involved in the way in which a financially sustainable pathway in water infrastructure investment can occur. That member has no solution whatever, at all.

💬 Simon Watts: Will she apologise to local councillors and mayors for withholding that information and spending the entire consultation process refusing to confirm a mandatory approach would be used despite it having been decided months before the consultation began?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: For clarification, the member is ignoring the fact that the July Cabinet paper is quite clear. It explicitly notes that Cabinet would consider whether to proceed with an all-in approach at the end of the eight-week period. This is an important element, because the other aspect is that in July at the local government conference, the heads of agreement between the Crown, the Government, and Local Government New Zealand announced that if the Government decided to adopt an all-in approach, LGNZ would accept the decision.

💬 Rachel Brooking: Does the Minister believe she has engaged in good faith with local councils throughout the three waters reform process?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes, I have and I continue to. And no matter how difficult the challenge is, it’s my strong view that engagement with the local government sector is a critical part of trying to find a solution to a really difficult challenge. I will not close my doors to engagement. In fact, just for convenience’s sake, I have a range of engagements dating back from June 2018 right up until the present day, which details the range of engagements that I have had on this particular issue. More importantly, the policy process has taken over four years to get to a point. Now, I know that we’re at the end of the year. This Government wants to ensure that we reach a point where on the first day of Christmas, all communities and all ratepayers get [Sings] clean drinking water, world-class water infrastructure, affordable water rates, professional governance entities, beaches we can swim in, debt off council books, and a pūkeko in a ponga tree.

💬 Simon O’Connor: Point of order. The Minister very kindly seemed to be referring to an official document of her engagements and I’d welcome her to table it in the House.

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Mr Speaker, I seek leave to detail the engagements, if it’s not too onerous on you.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, if the member has—is the document the member has an official departmental document or is it a list from her office?

💬 Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: It’s a list from my office—

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member will resume her seat. It is not an official document, and I think it would be—well, I don’t know if I’ve got the right not to let the member seek leave to read it all out, but I think she’d probably get a—I’m getting a no, so we’ll just leave it there.