Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, in particular I stand by this Government’s decision to take the next steps in our plan to reconnect New Zealanders to the world. Today, we announced that Kiwis and other eligible travellers will be able to enter New Zealand from Australia without the requirement of managed isolation, that we have been operating for some time now, from 11.59 p.m., Sunday, 16 January 2022. Following that, Kiwis and other eligible travellers will be able to travel to New Zealand from all other countries from 11.59 p.m., Sunday, 13 February. Our cautious plan to reopen the world, including the use of self-isolation, allows us to balance the need to reconnect while ensuring public health measures are maintained during an ongoing global pandemic. We only need look at the rest of the world to see why that is necessary. We know the last two years have been incredibly difficult, especially for those separated by borders. But with today’s announcements, you can see a change in border restrictions is in sight.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why is it safe for a vaccinated Kiwi to come home from Queensland on 16 January but not before Christmas?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I mentioned to the member yesterday, but as I’m happy to restate in this House today, we are going through significant changes in the way that we are managing COVID-19 in New Zealand. It falls upon us to ensure that we do that carefully and responsibly. That means that we have the change to the Auckland boundary that is occurring in the middle of December, and from there, we want to then take a phased reopening for the rest of the world, but do so cautiously. I would also note for the member that until recently, of course, up until we’ve used managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ), all returnees have been coming in at Auckland. With these changes, there will be returnees across New Zealand. That is also a step change, and whilst we will have self-isolation, there will be cases that will be ceded as a result of these changes and we need to be prepared for that.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So why will a fully vaccinated Kiwi coming home from overseas in February be allowed to self-isolate, but a fully vaccinated ICU nurse from the UK will have to find a spot in MIQ?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As the member knows, of course, the length of time that we’ll be asking people to isolate will be the same, but we’ve been pragmatic about the fact that those who are returning home, by default, have a home to return to. Many of those critical and essential workers will not necessarily be well established and have the ability to do that. So this enables them, regardless, to be able to come through the system. The other point I’d make is that we have specially designated space in MIQ for critical health workers. In fact, in the latter part of this year, we have had hundreds coming into New Zealand via that designated space to make sure that they can be prioritised.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why is her Government not prioritising the highly prioritised ICU nurses?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I totally reject that statement from that member. We have actually been working with DHBs, and, where they have identified that they have critical health workers that they have employed, and that need support to come into New Zealand, that has been provided. As I say, my recollection is we’ve had somewhere in the order of 300 or so designated for that purpose.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Has the Government finished developing the traffic light system it plans to implement next week; if not, why not?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member will be aware of the system because it was released at the end of October.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So will businesses in Taupō be operating under red or orange next weekend?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Well, I can tell the member that every business in Taupō that is open now will be open under the traffic light system. The whole point is that under this system, there is certainty for businesses that they will all be able to open and operate, albeit with a requirement to use vaccine certificates. What we have said is that the level that parts of the country will be in will be determined by the latest public health advice, which will be based predominantly on vaccination status. But any business in Taupō can plan around the COVID protection framework, which has already been released, and if the member were to look at that framework, she would see that we are currently in alert level 2. It is very similar to red, so therefore there is no additional restrictions that someone would likely face as a result.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: If the Prime Minister can’t be certain whether Taupō will be under red or orange next weekend, then how can business owners be expected to be certain whether they’ll be under red or orange?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, let me step through this—again—for the member. Regardless of the level, they will be able to operate as they are now with, of course, vaccine certificates, and we have signalled that since October. The difference between those levels is simply around things like gathering limits. Now, most businesses have had to operate or create procedures to deal with that since the beginning of the pandemic. The reason we have not given the specific level that each part of the country will go into at this stage is because we want them to be at the lowest level of restrictions possible. That means vaccination levels being as high as possible. So we will make those judgments closer to the time based on public health advice.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So is there a minimum vaccination rate before a region can be considered for a move to green?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, as we’ve said, one of the things that will be primary in the minds of the public health advice that we are provided—because it’s not, of course, a decision made solely by Cabinet; we act on public health advice—is vaccination levels, and the level of protective factors in the community will be part of it. But, as the member can also see, it will also be dependent on the level of community transmission, whether or not there is pressure on our public health system and on our hospital system.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Then South Island green!

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because, though, we are in a situation, Mr Brownlee, where we are transitioning into the new system, we have already indicated that when we first move, no part of the country will be in green initially.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Will any region be allowed to move to green before the end of this year, and, if not, when is the earliest date she will consider moving any region in New Zealand to green?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Two responses to that: we have already said that in the first review, of course, we will announce the decisions on 29 November for where the country will move in. We will at that point set out the timetable for how regularly we will be reviewing the settings for all parts of the country and the cycle that the member can expect from there. But what I would say is that it’s important to note that with this new framework, there is much more flexibility than we’ve had previously. So even if we’ve got a region in orange, events go ahead, hospitality goes ahead, and there are no limits on gatherings for vaccinated people. There is much greater movement and much more freedom from restrictions at orange than even we currently have.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Recent reports we have seen on our economic support programmes show that the sectors that have received the greatest support from the Government over the course of this outbreak are the construction industry and the accommodation and food services sector. Over time, the amount paid under the wage subsidy for the accommodation and food services sector since 17 August has been $624 million compared with $577 million for the construction sector. For the Resurgence Support Payment, the same two industries were the largest recipients, with accommodation and food services over time accounting for a greater percentage of payments. As would be expected over time, the payments have gone progressively more towards the Auckland region, with the latest Resurgence Support Payment having 71 percent of recipients in the Greater Auckland region, with the next highest being Hamilton, making up 8 percent.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The economic consultancy Infometrics’ September 2021 quarterly economic monitor has reported that New Zealand regional economies were solid despite the setback of the Delta outbreak. The monitor shows economic activity dipped 3.7 percent in the quarter, according to provisional estimates, as Delta temporarily brought parts of the economy to a standstill. However, Infometrics notes that economic momentum has returned as most of the country has moved down alert levels, with people buying and backing local again. Looking ahead, it reports that regional economies remain well positioned to recover from Delta with more spending and activity set to be unlocked in 2022. Nevertheless, the ongoing and uneven impact of COVID-19 means that the environment will remain volatile for some time.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reports has he seen on how New Zealand has adapted to the constraints of the pandemic on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: New Zealand Post’s eCommerce Spotlight shows that New Zealanders have moved online during the pandemic, spending $765 million online in October, an increase of 71 percent on October 2020 and 89 percent on the same period in 2019. This does show that businesses are also adapting during the current Delta outbreak by improving the online function of their websites and introducing delivery and click and collect options. The Government has contributed to this with support programmes for people to move themselves online.

Question No. 3—Health

Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and reads as follows. What clinical criteria, if any, are being used to determine whether a person who is COVID-positive and self-isolating in the community should be given a pulse oximeter, and does he believe that the home isolation model—

Order! Order! The member’s question—

Brooke van Velden: I’m just reading from the yellow sheet.

I apologise. The member will continue. The adjustments that had been made to the question appear not to have been given through to the proper people. I apologise.

All right. I can start again?

💬 SPEAKER: Yes. Start again.

💬 BROOKE VAN VELDEN: OK. Thank you. What clinical criteria, if any, are being used to determine whether a person who is COVID-positive and self-isolating in the community should be given a pulse oximeter, and does he believe that the home isolation model is ready for the traffic light system?

Mr Speaker, a point of order. I have prepared my answer on the basis of amendments to the question that were notified to my office late in the morning, so just so you’re aware—

I hear what the member is saying. What I’m going to do is leave it to the member who is asking the question to decide which of the two questions is to be asked. I think, to be fair to both members, before I intervened to bring the question into what I thought was order, the Minister’s office had been given the original question. So given the fact that through an error—although it was given to the member—it didn’t make it on to the yellow sheet, I think we’ll leave it to Brooke van Velden to choose which of the two versions she goes with. She knows that if she goes with the original one she is likely to have a less prepared answer, but that’s something I take responsibility for. Brooke van Velden—whichever way you want to go.

Speaking to the point of order, I’m happy to do the question that we had submitted post—that is, not on the yellow sheet.

I will do my best to please the member. Pulse oximetry has a critical role to play—

Brooke van Velden: Point of order, Mr Speaker. If we’re going with a different question, should I at least read the question?

Sorry. I think what we’re going to do is we’re going to get the member to ask the question that she wants again. I’m sorry, I was momentarily distracted, but I think that may have been obvious to all members, and that, again, is my responsibility. I’m not having a good afternoon—that was my responsibility.

3. to the Minister of Health: What clinical criteria, if any, are being used to determine whether a person who is COVID-positive and self-isolating in the community should be given a pulse oximeter, and does he have confidence in the home isolation system?

Pulse oximetry has a critical role in monitoring the clinical status of some people with COVID-19, but most people will not require a pulse oximeter to safely monitor their health. People who would benefit from having one are identified during their clinical assessment, which includes assessing against clinical criteria such as their vaccination status and any medical risk factors such as other diseases, age, ethnicity, and complex and dynamic circumstances, such as their housing. These criteria reflect a scale, highlighting that often, for example, young, fit people do not have the same level of care needs compared to those who may be older, with comorbidities or other factors increasing their risk. However, our model enables clinicians and COVID-positive individuals to continue to assess their care needs and deliver the appropriate level needed. In response to the second part of the member’s question, yes. As our vaccination levels have increased, this has given us options as to how people can recover, and more people can recover at home. I’m confident that work that the Ministry of Health and the DHBs have been leading, in partnership with the primary care sector, means that as we move to the COVID-19 Protection Framework, we will have a care in the community model that enables more people to be cared for as appropriate to their need, including by isolating at home.

Brooke van Velden: How is the clinical assessment or judgment being made—for example, over-the-phone conversation or face-to-face conversation, or from looking at health records—and would it not be simpler to give a pulse oximeter to everyone when we know there are thousands available?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, a pulse oximeter cannot give a full clinical assessment of a person who has just been notified that they’ve tested positive for COVID. It’s important that somebody who’s just got a positive test gets, as quickly as possible, a clinical assessment to assess whether it is safe for them to recover at home. So the way the model is set up is that they will get that clinical assessment, in most cases, from their GP, but if not from their GP, then another competent clinician, who will go through the factors that they know. If it is the person’s GP, then that GP will have access to that person’s health records. If it is not the person’s GP, it will be for the clinician, through questioning and assessing that person, by and large, over the phone, to work out what is in the best interests of that person.

Brooke van Velden: Is the Director-General of Health correct when he says that the metrics to help measure whether the system is working well won’t be ready for a couple of weeks, and, if so, when will the metrics be ready?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, it might depend on when the Director-General of Health said that, because this is a programme that has been put together over the last few weeks. But we do have metrics about the time that we want people to get that first clinical assessment and the social assessment and any public health assessment, and to make sure that, depending on the health profile of that person and the nature of their health at the time they test positive, they’re getting the right clinical oversight for the time that they are recovering at home.

Brooke van Velden: How many COVID-positive people have been home isolating to date, and how many have been given a pulse oximeter?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: As I recall, the figures roughly: 1,700 COVID-positive patients have been recovering at home; roughly 900 pulse oximeters have been issued to households with a COVID-positive patient.

Brooke van Velden: Has he asked for projections of how many people will be home isolating in the community at Christmas, and, if so, what are the minimum and maximum projections?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The problem with trying to get modelling on these things is that there are a whole range of factors that come into play, and we don’t know where the vaccination levels, for example, will end up in the next couple of weeks before we’re going to cut over to the system, and there are a range of other mitigations that are in place. But we are preparing for an increase in the number of COVID-positive patients. That’s why we have, roughly, now nearly 27,000 pulse oximeters available throughout New Zealand to be deployed, as and when needed. I’m not sure that we’re going to need all of those, but with that measure and also the work that the DHBs have been doing with the Ministry of Health, I am confident that New Zealand will be prepared for once the COVID protection framework is put in place, the restrictions on people’s movements around the country are reduced, and people will start to move throughout the country, as will COVID.

Question No. 4—Agriculture

4. to the Minister of Agriculture: Is he satisfied with the contribution the agriculture sector is making towards meeting the Government’s emissions reduction targets; if not, why not?

On behalf of the Minister, New Zealand is undertaking a world-leading task in identifying a way to price agricultural emissions. We knew it would be a challenging task and it is. In 2019, agriculture was proposed to enter the emissions trading scheme at the processor level, but an agreement was made with the sector that they could develop an alternative pricing mechanism through the collaborative partnership, appropriately called He Waka Eke Noa, as we are all in this together. We appreciate the Green Party’s support for this, and, on behalf of the Minister, we acknowledge Minister Shaw’s key role in coming to this agreement and his ongoing contribution to He Waka Eke Noa as the Minister of Climate Change. We have set this sector an ambitious objective and this is their chance to rise to that challenge. The new pricing mechanism must be designed to reduce emissions, be practical to implement, and be consistent with actions to reduce emissions by other sectors. Sector leaders have worked very hard over the last two years to design a new pricing mechanism that covers off how agriculture emissions will be priced, how farmers will need to report their emissions, and what secretions might be recognised. I am informed He Waka Eke Noa has already exceeded their first milestone. Approximately 60 percent of farms by the end of this year will know their annual total greenhouse gas emissions. This far exceeds the target of 25 percent by the end of the year and He Waka Eke Noa is on track to meet the milestone of one quarter having written plans to manage their emissions.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is he confident that the options presented yesterday by the He Waka Eke Noa partnership can deliver agricultural emissions reductions at the speed and scale required to meet the Government’s level of ambition, and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: As the member has acknowledged, the discussion document has only just been released and all sectors have been asked to meet these targets, not just agriculture. The Government is working across the board and the Minister is satisfied with the work being undertaken by agriculture. I want to also acknowledge the Minister of Climate Change, who is also doing a great job in coordinating this approach across all sectors.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is he concerned that New Zealand’s international reputation on agriculture and climate change will be impacted if this sector does not tackle its emissions footprint quickly?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: It’s too early to make that call. Like I said, a discussion document is out there. We have every faith in our partners of He Waka Eke Noa, that they are doing the right thing. They’ve put out the proposal. It’s out for consultation and there are still decisions to be made by Ministers in the new year.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is he considering banning palm kernel expeller (PKE) imports as an emissions reduction measure; if not, why not?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: As I’ve answered that question previously in this House, the New Zealand Government will not support the importation that is linked to illegal activity in foreign nations. New Zealand businesses need to ensure the integrity of the supply chains and that they are operating consistently with the laws of the relevant country. The Ministry for Primary Industries and industry are working together to show farmers how they can farm without PKE. This work will continue. We are also leading the way in terms of our investment in regenerative agriculture.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does he have confidence that the ingenuity and innovation needed to thrive in a low emissions future is alive and well in New Zealand’s farming sector?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: Pricing provides an incentive to reduce emissions. However, it is only one part of a broad programme of work to reduce agricultural emissions. To help farmers reduce their emissions, the Government is also investing in emissions mitigation technology and research and development. The Government has made significant investments in world-leading research on reducing agricultural emissions. In Budget 2021 the Government committed $24 million over four years towards agricultural greenhouse gas mitigation R & D.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Before I call Sarah Pallett, I just want to remind my friend in the gallery of the requirement to wear his mask. I think we do need to learn to wear masks and use our phones at the same time.

Question No. 5—COVID-19 Response

5. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What recent announcements has the Government made on reconnecting New Zealand to the world?

Today I announced the next steps in our plan to reconnect New Zealand with the world, with a staged approach to removing the requirement for most incoming travellers to enter our managed isolation facilities. The first step will see Kiwi citizens and residents, along with those with current border exceptions, able to arrive from Australia without staying in managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) from 11.59 p.m. on Sunday, 16 January. The second step allows Kiwis and other eligible travellers from all other countries not considered very high-risk to bypass MIQ from 11.59 p.m. on Sunday, 13 February. Finally, from 30 April onwards, fully vaccinated foreign nationals will be able to travel here. This step will likely be phased in, depending on visa categories, and in line with our immigration reset. We’re making this announcement today to give families, businesses, visitors, and airline and airport companies certainty and time to prepare. It’s really encouraging that, as a result of high vaccination rates and the protections offered by the traffic light framework, we as a country are now in a position to move towards greater normality at our international border.

💬 Sarah Pallett: What requirements will be applied to travellers who do not have to enter MIQ?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: We’ve always said that we would open up in a controlled way to provide continued assurance around new arrivals. That’s why we’re retaining a seven-day home isolation period for those fully vaccinated travellers arriving under the three steps that we announced today, which is, of course, the medium-risk pathway that we’re opening. All of these arrivals will also require a negative pre-departure test, proof that they have been fully vaccinated, they will need to complete a passenger declaration about their recent travel history, they’ll need to do a test on arrival at day zero or one, and they’ll need a final negative test before they’re able to move about freely in the community at the end of their self-isolation. Those who don’t meet the requirements for the medium-risk pathway, but are still permitted to enter New Zealand under our current border settings, will continue to enter managed isolation upon arrival. That will include unvaccinated New Zealand citizens and those from very high-risk countries.

💬 Sarah Pallett: Why is the Government taking a staged approach to reconnecting with the world?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Closing our border was one of the first steps that we took to keep New Zealand safe from the global COVID-19 pandemic, and it will be one of the last things that we do as we open up. There continues to be a global pandemic, and cases are surging in Europe and in other parts of the world, so we need to be careful as we look to reopen our border. A phased approach is the safest approach; it helps us to ensure that risk is carefully managed and to reduce the potential impacts on vulnerable communities and the New Zealand health system. The opening of our borders logically flows from the bedding in of the new traffic light system, the removal of the boundary around Auckland, the time that regions need to get their vaccination rates higher still, and, of course, for booster shots to be rolled out to people who received their vaccinations first. It’s worth acknowledging the difficult trade-offs we’ve had to make to keep our country as safe as possible and the toll that that has taken on New Zealanders overseas and New Zealanders who have been separated from those who are overseas. But the end of heavily restricted travel is now in sight, and as we shift to the new phase of the pandemic, the time is right to carefully reopen our borders, just as we said we would and just as we have planned for.

💬 Chris Bishop: From what date will fully vaccinated Australian citizens be able to travel to New Zealand without going into MIQ?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Those Australian citizens who are normally resident in New Zealand will be able to travel to New Zealand from 11.59 p.m. on Sunday, 16 January. For those Australians who are coming here to visit—for a holiday, for example—where they’re not covered by a current border exception, they’ll have to wait a little longer.

Question No. 6—Health

6. to the Minister of Health: How many inpatient procedures, as they are described in answer to written question No. 51279, have been deferred since the start of the current Delta outbreak, and how many people, if any, are now waiting more than four months for a specialist appointment?

The Ministry of Health’s latest reporting for the week ending 14 November estimates that approximately 7,070 inpatient elective procedures were deferred nationally due to COVID-19 since August 2021. As the member will be aware from my answer to his written question, these are estimates subject to revision by DHBs. In response to the second part of the question, the Ministry of Health reports on a metric for first follow-up specialist appointments within four months of referral. Results for September 2021 show that there are 27,433 patients waiting longer than four months for a first specialist appointment; this compares to 19,182 in July 2021. As I’ve said in the House previously, the reality is that pandemics disrupt health systems; all services reduce procedures in order to keep patients and health workers safe. Every effort is being made to reduce the disruption of planned care. Since the alert level 4 was lifted, many of the DHBs outside of Auckland have reduced waiting times in their planned care schedule; however, DHBs like Auckland and Counties Manukau have been at the centre of the response to the latest outbreak and continue to see disruption to their schedules. The Ministry of Health is also working with DHBs as we move into the COVID protection framework to enable the delivery of more planned care and to further reduce backlogs.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Point of order. Mr Speaker, in the primary question, I specifically asked for inpatient procedures as they’re described in answer to a written question. That includes not just the procedures that the Minister has just talked about, but also radiology, first specialist assessments. I specifically asked in that format consistent with that question. They haven’t been addressed.

💬 SPEAKER: Does the Minister have those figures?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, talking to the point of order, the answer to the written question that was lodged provided the very answer I’ve just given. It answered the question that the member has just asked orally: 7,070, as he described them, inpatient procedures have been deferred in the period that he describes.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Did officials provide him with any options to manage coronavirus that would have resulted in fewer cancelled procedures than he has just prescribed? And if so, what were those options?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The nature of the pandemic, and particularly the outbreak that warranted the country being put into level 4, is that health services are disrupted, and hospitals in particular, because they are exposed to a particular vulnerability—that is to say, unwell people turning up to get healthcare—amend their procedures to keep both those people safe, the patients turning up, as well as healthcare workers. And so it does cause disruption. Once the level 4 was lifted, then many DHBs were able to get back to, as close as possible, life as normal, restore their planned care schedule, but hospitals in Auckland were not, because hospitals like Counties Manukau and Auckland, who have been carrying the heaviest patient workload—at least, for those afflicted with COVID19—have had to slow down their planned care in order to keep, again, COVID19 patients and other patients and healthcare workers safe.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: At any time over the past 20 months, did he ask officials to estimate how much it would cost to reduce the number of cancelled procedures; and, if so, what were the costs?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, two points on that: the member refers to cancelled procedures, and that is the way they’re categorised, but, actually, most of them are postponed. So, for many of those procedures that have been postponed, many have actually been picked up since. But we saw from the experience last year, and the disruption that an outbreak causes, that DHBs are capable of catching up. That is why the Government provided them with an additional $282.5 million over three years to help them to manage their catch-up programme for planned care. Additional funding has been provided this year as well, and I’m confident that DHBs, particularly those outside of Auckland, are working very hard to clear the backlog, and those DHBs who are in Auckland and can refer patients to other DHBs are doing so. And every effort is being made to make sure that those backlogs are being reduced.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Were all of the deferred procedures from last year’s outbreak caught up prior to this current outbreak starting; and, if so, why were there 30,000 still waiting for a first specialist assessment?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: As I recall from the reports I received, certainly in the month or two just prior to the latest lockdown and outbreak, actually a large percentage—the majority—of procedures that had been postponed last year had been caught up with. There were still some outstanding; in some cases, it was because other circumstances had arisen for some patients. That meant that it was not propitious to carry out the planned care for that particular patient, but they are still on a waiting list. And I imagine the same will happen as a result of the most recent outbreak.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Why are GPs in Christchurch, a city with barely any COVID cases, already being told by Christchurch Hospital general surgery that as they have no chance of seeing new patients, they will be declining most referrals; and when will he finally admit that this is because he failed to prepare the health system for coronavirus?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The health system has been responding to and adapting to the coronavirus for some considerable time, but I think that member will know, and his colleagues on that side of the House will know, that from the time they were in Government, the health system had been underfunded for a considerable period of time. Buildings had not been invested in, space had not been expanded, staff had not had pay rises that kept pace with the cost of inflation, and this is a Government, in the last four years, that has had to play major catch-up to make sure that we have a health system that is capable of responding effectively.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: How is the Cancer Control Agency driving long-term outcomes for men’s health in relation to prostate cancer?

We know that prostate cancer is a serious issue for men’s health, being the second most commonly diagnosed cancer in New Zealand for men. Every year, nearly 4,000 men are diagnosed and about 650 die from the disease, the third highest cause of death after lung and bowel cancers. I acknowledge the work of the team behind Movember, and, indeed, some members in this House are participating—including that member and his very handsome moustache that he’s growing for the cause—in advocating and bringing awareness to men’s health and in particular prostate cancer. The Cancer Control Agency has a key role in modernising our approach, alongside broader reforms. The agency’s strong leadership supported the creation of the prostate quality performance indicator monitoring report. This report is the first of its kind in New Zealand. It compares DHB performance to others of a similar demographic and can be used to support specific improvement where there is variation. We know that insights and awareness allow us to better deliver prevention, screening, and treatment, and, overall, make greater progress in reducing the harm cancer can cause to our men, their whānau, and communities.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: Thank you to the Minister. What actions are being taken to improve prostate cancer outcomes for New Zealand men?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: In early 2021, the Cancer Control Agency held a forum in Wellington with lead clinicians from around New Zealand to get agreement on actions to support required improvements, including best practice diagnostic guidelines. This has formed the base of our quality improvement action plan, to be implemented over the next two years by services which are monitored by the Cancer Control Agency. Some of the recommended areas set out in the prostate cancer action plan to guide improved outcomes include focusing on ensuring appropriate, up-to-date evidence-based practices are followed, with regard to chemotherapy for prostate cancer patients; ensuring men receive evidence-based and personalised information about their treatment options from the relevant treatment specialists; and encouraging and supporting primary healthcare providers to undertake prostate specific antigen—or PSA—testing and digital rectal examination of men who have lower urinary tract symptoms or symptoms of metastatic disease.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What work is being done to improve cancer-related health outcomes for Māori men?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The Wai 2575 Māori Health Trends Report in 2019 identified that prostate cancer is the most common cancer for Māori men. We therefore acknowledge that when looking to improve prostate cancer health outcomes, there is an inequity here that has to be addressed. This is one of the key reasons that the prostate quality performance monitoring report is published with ethnicity data and is used to drive service improvement for this year. This way we can identify how we’re tracking for tāne Māori and make sure the actions we take are improving outcomes for them. In addition, the Cancer Control Agency also ensured Māori representation on the working group that identifies indicators so that this group continues to drive improved health outcomes in an equitable way. More broadly, the Cancer Control Agency has also recently completed 13 community hui and 30 Māori-leader hui around the country to hear the voice of Māori, co-design Māori cancer actions, collaborate with cancer stakeholders, and support the delivery of cancer actions across the continuum of care.

Question No. 8—Finance

8. to the Minister of Finance: What will be the criteria for businesses to be eligible for business support under the new traffic light system, and how many businesses, if any, does he expect to be operating under the red setting next week?

As the member will recall from my answers to his questions yesterday, on 22 October I announced the in principle decisions on the support to be provided under the COVID protection framework. This includes a transition grant that will particularly support Auckland businesses as they transition into the new framework. I also said on 22 October that the criteria for that would be similar to the Resurgence Support Payment. Final details of this will be announced shortly, and obviously before the framework takes effect. I also noted on 22 October that we’d be looking to replace the existing economic supports when the framework takes effect, as broad-based supports are no longer appropriate in a framework where businesses can operate at all levels. In answer to the second part of the member’s question, the decisions on which areas of New Zealand and therefore which businesses will be operating at the red level will be taken on 29 November, but we have already indicated that the Auckland region will be entering the framework at the red level.

💬 Andrew Bayly: When he said yesterday that the Government was going to move towards targeted support for specific sectors, what will be the criteria for selecting those sectors?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member will be aware, there are certain sectors of the economy who cannot operate to the fullest extent possible under the conditions that we currently have. Throughout the pandemic, we have targeted sectors such as the tourism sector in order for them to be able to be supported.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Will he compensate business owners for stock that goes to waste if they are told at the last minute they will be operating under the red restrictions?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, as the Prime Minister said in her earlier answer, even under the red level, if we take, for example, hospitality, they will be able to operate. At every single level of the framework, businesses can operate.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Why is he still figuring out the details of the system that he announced more than a month ago and is due to be implemented in eight days’ time?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, throughout the pandemic we’ve adopted an approach of using the latest possible information, making sure that we consult across the board with all affected sectors, and making sure that we adapt our approach to the circumstances that confront us. As I said in my answer to oral question No. 2 today, we’ve seen around $624 million go to the accommodation and food services sector just since 17 August. The Government stands by its record of supporting businesses through this pandemic.

💬 Andrew Bayly: When will he inform bar owner Tāmati Coffey whether his bar will be eligible for COVID support under the traffic light system and whether it will be operating under an orange or red level next week?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can’t speak for Mr Coffey, but I know that he is an excellent business owner who runs an extremely profitable business, and I’m sure he will take stock of all of what has been provided in terms of support and make any decisions he makes about applying for future support. On this side of the House, we’ve been consistent about the way in which we’ve provided support to business, unlike members opposite, who can’t decide whether we should put more money in or less money in. I am proud of our record of supporting businesses and supporting lives and livelihoods consistently.

💬 SPEAKER: I didn’t stop the question, but I just want to put a general warning to members that bringing the private businesses of other members into the question period is something which I’m not going to rule out absolutely, but it could get pretty unedifying if it became common.

Question No. 9—Transport

9. to the Minister of Transport: How will transport support the economic recovery over the next three years?

We’re making good progress on a number of projects around the regions to keep New Zealand moving and to support the economic recovery. I am pleased to report that one of our regional New Zealand upgrade programme projects, Takitimu North Link stage 1, now has enabling works under way. At its peak of construction, up to 400 people will work on the Takitimu North Link stage 1 at any one time, so the people in the Bay of Plenty will be seeing real progress on this project, which includes a safe expressway and shared walking and cycling path to provide better transport choices while also supporting employment and economic development in the region.

💬 Shanan Halbert: What other regional projects have reached important milestones?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Our Queenstown New Zealand upgrade package reached another milestone recently. Geotechnical investigations have been carried out for the State Highway 6A project that’s part of the overall package. These will feed into the design of the project which will improve public transport services and enhance walking and cycling connections along Frankton Road. And construction is already under way on the linked town centre upgrades we’re funding through Crown Infrastructure Partners, creating jobs and supporting the region’s recovery.

💬 Shanan Halbert: How are other transport projects supporting the regions?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: While the New Zealand Upgrade Programme is supporting hundreds of jobs across the country, it’s also useful to highlight some of the small projects that will make a big difference for New Zealanders. The first stage of safety upgrades on State Highway 1 at Five Mile Bay just south of Taupō will be installed shortly. A wide centre lane will be painted on the freshly resealed section of the State highway between Taupō Airport and the Lake Terrace roundabout and Tawhaa Road later this week. That separation will help reduce the likelihood of head-on crashes and will no doubt be welcomed by many people travelling that stretch of road over the summer. Waka Kotahi is also investigating options such as flexible median and roadside barriers on State Highway 1 from Taupō Airport to Hatepe excluding the local township and work is expected to begin next year. This is a Government that invests and delivers in our regions in economic development.

Question No. 10—Social Development and Employment

10. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she believe that she is achieving results for New Zealanders currently not in the workforce and receiving income support who are looking to enter the workforce?

on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Yes. The last three quarters have seen record numbers of people move off benefit and into work. In the September quarter, 28,152 people cancelled their benefit and moved into work. This was a record for the September quarter. It builds on the March and June quarters, which saw the highest number of people moving into work since records began in 1996.

💬 Karen Chhour: Would the Minister expect the number of people claiming the job seeker benefit to decrease as unemployment drops from 4.8 percent in September 2017 to only 3.4 percent in September 2021, and, if so, why did the number of people on the job seeker benefit increase by 70,000 over the same period?

There are many different reasons for why the benefits move around, and some of those are around the fact that the Household Labour Force Survey doesn’t take into account those people who are in part-time work. So when that is picked up, the 11,000 job seekers—the numbers more closely align.

💬 Karen Chhour: Why is there another 70,000 people on the job seeker benefit, according to the Ministry of Social Development, since 2017, despite lower unemployment and record difficulty in finding labour for New Zealand firms?

As I said in the previous question, there are a variety of reasons for what are the causes behind this, but one of the things that I will say is that when—on behalf of the Minister—she took over as the Minister for Social Development, she was shocked at the state of front-line services. It is very clear that what is needed in these times is early intervention to get people back into work, and that is why we have put in place programmes such as Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi, which, under the previous Minister of Employment, the Hon Willie Jackson, has seen a number of people come through, and we will see people that are coming through those programmes go into employment from those programmes.

💬 Karen Chhour: Would the Minister be able to explain why annual social security and welfare spending, according to the Treasury, excluding super and the wage subsidy, has increased by $6.4 billion since Labour came into power, while at the same time unemployment has fallen to record lows and difficulty finding labour is at record highs?

I don’t have those figures in front of me at this time, and I know that the Minister would really welcome that question. If the member would put that in writing, she would be happy to answer that.

💬 Karen Chhour: Why should New Zealanders have confidence in this Government’s ability to transition Kiwis away from long-term benefit dependency into work when, under their watch, 70,000 extra people are on the job seeker benefit and annual social security and welfare spending, excluding super and wage subsidy, has increased to $6.4 billion?

When the Minister took over as Minister for Social Development, she was shocked at the state of the front-line services. National had abandoned work-focused case management in favour of punitive and non-effective sanctions. Case managers were overloaded and unable to dedicate enough time to the early interventions required to get people into work. The strong growth in people who have been on a benefit longer than five years is an example of the failure of the previous Government. These people came on to benefits during the previous Government’s time at the wheel, and they did not get the early interventions required, that were failed by the previous Government. We inherited a shambles.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I tried to wait until the end of the answer, but it kept going on. You are aware and have rebuked members under Standing Order 390, “Content of questions”. I would point out that the exact Standing Order, Standing Order 396, applies to the content of replies and I suggest to you that many of the comments made by the Minister fall well outside that Standing Order.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Speaking to the point of order. I don’t have the exact number of the Speaker’s ruling to hand, but I’m sure you probably know it. There is a Speaker’s ruling that indicates that it is perfectly in order for a Minister to be asked about and to answer questions about the challenges they encountered when they became a Minister.

💬 David Seymour: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. On behalf of ACT—

💬 SPEAKER: If the member takes his mask off, we might be able to hear him.

💬 David Seymour: On behalf of ACT, we were very happy for the Minister to keep going.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I am happy to rule, and I won’t go to the specific previous Speakers’ rulings on the matter. I think if that had been a Government supplementary question designed to attack the Opposition, then I would have foreshortened the answer, because I think that would have been outside the spirit of the Standing Orders. But a general question, as this started around whether the public should have confidence in a particular Minister, from the Opposition, I think it’s perfectly acceptable for the Minister to outline why the public should have confidence in her.

💬 Hon Member: That’s right, start again.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no. I think notwithstanding all of that, I think we’ve probably had enough.

💬 Karen Chhour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I would be quite keen to hear the rest of the Minister’s answer. May we please hear that?

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I know, Ms McKee, that you’re not normally a naughty member of Parliament, but I had pretty clearly indicated that I thought that the question had been adequately answered and that we will move on to the next question.

Question No. 11—Pacific Peoples

11. to the Minister for Pacific Peoples: What recent announcement has the Government made about supporting Pacific communities in their transition to the COVID-19 Protection Framework?

Yesterday, I announced that $10 million would be provided to support Pacific health providers and communities transition to the new COVID-19 Protection Framework. The Government recognises that there is a clear need to prepare new systems and healthcare approaches to protect and empower Pacific communities to lead and respond. The funding will also enable increased and more coordinated community engagement and education to enable greater reach into Pacific communities that the system struggles to engage with.

Anahila Kanongata‘a-Suisuiki: What support will be provided to Pacific health providers?

💬 Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO: Our Pacific providers have proven time and time again that they are an essential part of the Government’s response to this outbreak for our Pacific communities. The providers are known and trusted by their communities and have the language skills and the cultural intelligence to be most effective. I’ve acknowledged them as the heroes of our front lines against COVID. Eight million dollars will be provided to Pacific health and disability providers to address capacity pressures, accelerate ongoing protection measures, and adapt their business models to respond to the additional responsibility of rising COVID-19 infections and supporting care in the community. This investment will also allow the continuation of targeted vaccination and testing activities for vaccine hesitant and hard-to-reach Pacific groups. The funding will help Pacific health providers to better support Pacific communities during the shift to the COVID-19 Protection Framework whilst ensuring that Pacific health inequities are not further exacerbated in the process.

Anahila Kanongata‘a-Suisuiki: How will the funding support Pacific community outreach with the transition to the COVID-19 Protection Framework?

💬 Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO: Two million dollars of the funding announced will help maintain Pacific community outreach engagement by the Ministry for Pacific Peoples to underpin the whole-of-system transition to the COVID-19 Protection Framework. This will enable the continuation of community engagement and education, targeting groups such as Pacific churches, community-based groups, young people—autalavou—businesses, and community leaders, especially clusters with lower vaccination rates. The engagement will also help inform communities about the new settings that will apply to church services, funerals, large family gatherings, sporting and cultural events. Our aim is to keep everyone in Aotearoa safe and encourage our families to be well prepared for the global and national COVID environment. I also want to ensure that our providers and front-line workers can have the confidence to take a well-earned break in the Christmas holidays.

Question No. 12—Housing (Public Housing)

12. to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): Is the Minister concerned about the Tenancy Tribunal’s warning that Kāinga Ora is being compromised by its own “sustaining tenancies” policy, and how much compensation has the tribunal ordered Kāinga Ora to pay due to breaches of their duty under section 45(1)(e) of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 to ensure that none of their tenants interfere with the “reasonable peace, comfort, or privacy” of other tenants?

As the largest housing provider in the country, Kāinga Ora takes its obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act seriously. Those who require public housing can sometimes have complex issues in their lives that may lead to behaviour that is disruptive. That’s why the sustaining tenancies policy was initiated in 2017, to ensure that all practical steps are taken to address these issues and ensure everyone can live safe and secure in their home. When this does not occur, I expect Kāinga Ora to take all necessary actions to resolve these situations, and, as such, they have terminated 159 tenancies in the past year. It’s important to note that when the Tenancy Tribunal makes a ruling around matters of compensation or breaches, it does so on a case by case basis. I’m advised Kāinga Ora complies with this ruling and seeks to learn from these cases, however, any information on financial payments is kept on individual tenancy files and is not centrally located.

💬 Nicola Willis: How does she reconcile her statement just now that Kāinga Ora has terminated 159 tenancies in the past year with answers to written questions she has provided to me that show they have evicted zero tenants in the past three years?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The member is confused about evictions versus tenancy terminations. The past approach of evicting children out on to the street or into motels did not work. Relocations ensure that children remain housed and that the individuals concerned are moved into more appropriate housing.

💬 Nicola Willis: When did she first learn that Kāinga Ora had been found by the Tenancy Tribunal to have failed its legal obligations to protect its tenants from being abused by their neighbours; and when she learned that information, how did she act?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Kāinga Ora appears before the Tenancy Tribunal in a number of instances. As I advised the House this week, Kāinga Ora has a number of tools in their tool box to ensure that they meet the obligations under the Act. Kāinga Ora does, and has, on 159 occasions, this past year, terminated tenancies where necessary. I just want to make it clear that Kāinga Ora discharge their obligations as required, when a ruling is made by the Tenancy Tribunal.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! It was a very specific supplementary question with two parts. While the general issue was addressed, neither part of the supplementary question was addressed. Nicola Willis, I’ll ask you to ask it again.

💬 Nicola Willis: When did she first learn that Kāinga Ora had been found by the Tenancy Tribunal to have failed its legal obligations to protect its tenants from being abused by their neighbours, and how did she react?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I have to say that the Tenancy Tribunal hears matters involving Kāinga Ora on a range of subjects. The member is not being specific enough about a specific issue. If she would like to put that in writing, we could pass that on to Kāinga Ora to respond. As I say, Kāinga Ora appears in front of the tribunal on a range of issues, and the member has failed to provide specificity in this case.

💬 SPEAKER: No. I’m afraid that the supplementary question is in the context of the primary question. It’s not a general question about any old appearance for Kāinga Ora in front of the tribunal. If the Minister does not have the detail about when she was first informed of this, she should just say so, and that will address the question.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I do not have the answer to that specific question.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she think it is acceptable that a solo mother and her children living in a Kāinga Ora property were terrorised for so long by their neighbours that they had to go to the Tenancy Tribunal to get the Government landlord to wake up to its responsibilities and compensate her accordingly?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: What I do find unacceptable is the current commentary that it’s OK to put families out on the street, including children. It’s never OK to make children homeless, and I hope that no member of this House supports those views.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can the Minister confirm that I wrote to her outlining a number of cases at the Tenancy Tribunal where Kāinga Ora was found to have breached its legal obligations to its tenants, and can the Minister advise this House whether that letter was the first time that the Minister became aware that the public landlord was breaching the law with regard to its tenants?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: To answer the first part of the question, yes.