Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Westpac bank’s latest quarterly economic review has reported that the economy has remained resilient in the face of the current Delta outbreak and is well placed for our recovery in 2022. The report stated that employment levels rose 2 percent and unemployment fell to a record low—3.4 percent in the September quarter when the country was at the highest alert levels. Household demand remained firm while businesses had adapted to the outbreak and were pushing on with their investment and hiring plans. Looking ahead, Westpac expects unemployment to remain low, and economic activity will rise back to firm levels. It’s forecasting solid average annual GDP growth of 4.6 percent in 2022. None the less, while the economy is performing strongly, the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic means no one can be complacent. We’re working closely with business as we transition to the next stage of responding to COVID.

💬 SPEAKER: Before I call the member, I want to remind members in the gallery that the rules as far as slogans and boxes apply the same way there as they do here. Thank you.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, the first set of Crown accounts for the new financial year showed the continued strength of the New Zealand economy, despite the challenges of COVID-19. The result of the stronger starting position for the economy before the outbreak meant that core Crown tax revenue for the three months to the end of September 2021 was $2.3 billion above Budget 2021 forecasts, coming in at $24 billion. GST revenue was $184 million above forecast, owing to stronger than expected consumer demand. Overall, the operating balance before gains and losses was a deficit of $5.4 billion, $0.8 billion higher than forecast. This was a result of the Delta outbreak, which triggered a shift in alert level restrictions and, therefore, the payment of Government support to businesses and workers in order to protect jobs and livelihoods. It’s worth noting that net core Crown debt was 33 percent of GDP, which was lower than the 36.2 percent forecast by the Treasury, and significantly below most countries we compare ourselves with.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What constraints is the pandemic placing on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The economy’s performance has exceeded the expectation of most economists and commentators. This has been reflected, as I say, in the Crown accounts, which do give us more options to respond to the ongoing effects of the pandemic. But this remains a happening in a challenging environment. The recovery is uneven for some sectors and regions, while the pandemic continues to disrupt global supply chains, which is affecting the New Zealand economy. Key Government actions to reduce the impact of the supply chain disruption is being led by the Ministry of Transport with an inter-agency forum, where we are working with both importers and exporters. But there is no quick fix to these global issues. The Government will continue to take a balanced approach and invest in supporting the recovery and meeting other challenges while carefully managing our resources.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. I especially stand by the Government’s decision to make booster doses of the Pfizer vaccine available to all New Zealanders 18 years or older who have completed their two-dose course more than six months ago. This announcement follows approval by Medsafe and will ensure the best protection possible for those who have received their earlier doses here in New Zealand or abroad. Unlike other countries, boosters will be available for all who qualify from later this month. I observe that in many countries in Europe, some have only just started their booster campaigns, and many are limiting who are able to access boosters. We expect around 450,000 people will be eligible for their booster shot before the end of the year. You’ll be able to make your booking on bookmyvaccine.nz from 26 November.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why is she waiting until tomorrow to tell Aucklanders suffering through 13 weeks of lockdown what the rules will be for travelling this summer?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Simply because, as the member will remember, not every decision that’s made by Cabinet is then announced within half an hour of the decision. This is a particular decision that does have operational impacts. Once Cabinet made that decision, it’s only natural, of course, that we would want to ensure that agencies were aware of it before it was publicly announced.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Does she expect the rules to change between yesterday, when Cabinet discussed and decided them, and tomorrow, when she plans to announce them?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, but nor is that the reason; I’ve just already given the member the rationale. I would also highlight for the member that there are many decisions that we make that we do share immediately. Of course, alert level decisions, for instance, are discussed at Cabinet at 1 o’clock and then shared at 4 o’clock. This is, however, a decision where we did want to make sure that we had awareness across agencies and those affected by the decision.

💬 David Seymour: How can there be operational implications requiring awareness by agencies when all she proposes to do is announce a date which is, presumably, several weeks away?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, without going into some of the detail, it will not just be a date.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why didn’t the Government work out a plan for regional travel in the 18 months before this outbreak?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As the member will be aware, there have been a number of occasions where we have had to operate land boundaries; we have done so and then, of course, following elimination, they’ve been able to be lifted. Delta, for every country around the world, has been an absolute game-changer. It did not even exist 18 months ago. In fact, I would point out to the member that many of the countries’ experiences that they are having now—with the likes of the Netherlands and Austria, despite high vaccine rates—having to re-impose restrictions, is because Delta is behaving very differently than, for instance, Alpha. If we were still in that phase of the pandemic, we wouldn’t be having many of these conversations.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So does she stand by her statement yesterday that the traffic light system “provides greater protection for New Zealanders than we see with the current alert level system.”; if so, why haven’t we moved to it already?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, when coupled with good vaccination rates. At the time that we announced that framework, the vaccination rates simply weren’t high enough to be able to move into it—particularly, it also would have had equity issues. We, of course, in that framework do require the use of vaccine passes to ensure that you’re able to operate at a reasonable level; having a reasonable number of people vaccinated is also required. I would also point out it would not have been safe, at that point, to transition to the framework in Auckland with the outbreak the way it was, with the vaccination levels at that rate. It does require decent vaccine levels.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So whose fault is it that 20 percent of New Zealanders were double-vaccinated when the latest lockdown occurred?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Unlike that member, I’ve never been in the practice of blaming the existence of COVID-19 on anyone. Every single country around the world has had to take on this challenge. And do you know what? As a Government, the fact that we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the world, one of the most successful in terms of the recovery of our economy, the lowest unemployment rates; growth in GDP, and some of the lowest case rates around the world—as a Government, we acknowledge the hurt that many people have experienced, but relative to other countries, it has been far, far less. I think history will tell the story of the team of 5 million.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Point of order. My question was very clearly who is at fault.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! That was answered in the first part of the answer.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why are thousands of people allowed to go shopping at Sylvia Park in Auckland, but an Auckland restaurant cannot serve people in their outside dining area?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Taken across, as a whole, the profile of hospitality is just different to retail, and that has been recognised throughout this pandemic.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Leader of the Opposition asked a question. Her own team should not be shouting down the answer, if, in fact, it was a serious question.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: You will not find a country around the world that I can think of, that in the way that they have worked with hospitality, have treated hospitality and retail the same. In that vein, there are some countries who have only recently allowed their hospitality services to reopen fully since February 2020. We’ve been in a vastly different set of circumstances. Yes, they have been at the front line of restrictions, but when we move in to the new protection framework, that is when the industry will have greater certainty, and that will be part of our progress in our response to COVID.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order. I waited until the end of the Prime Minister’s answer to point out that the interjections by my colleagues, which I would consider to be rare and reasonable in the circumstances, were not a reflection of the quality of the question but of the quality of the answer. If you are suggesting now that those rare and reasonable interjections, and from time to time, some levity, cannot be part of the exchange in oral question time, I think that would be a shame.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I totally agree with member if they were rare. They weren’t rare; there was a barrage from at least 15 members.

Question No. 3—Research, Science, and Innovation

3. to the Minister of Research, Science and Innovation: How is the Government backing high pay-off, innovative research projects, including those that support the fight against COVID-19 and climate change?

Science and innovation are primary tools in helping Aotearoa address significant challenges like COVID-19 and climate change. I recently announced that through the Marsden Fund, we’re investing more than $82 million over the next three years across 120 projects. This includes opportunities for funding pioneering blue-sky research to create new knowledge as well as applied science to support the transition to a low-emissions and climate resilient economy.

💬 SPEAKER: Before I call a member, I just want to indicate to members who have been away for a while that you don’t need to put your mask on in between your supplementaries and the main question.

💬 Naisi Chen: Thank you, Mr Speaker. How will the research funded through this Marsden Fund round underpin New Zealand’s climate change response and understanding?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The Government is committed to addressing the challenges created by climate change and transitioning to a low-carbon future. Through the Marsden Fund, we’re investing in a range of projects to help us understand and respond to the effects of climate change. Climate change projects include how the Antarctic ice sheets will respond and the effects on our oceans; research into how our oceans behave, including carbon sink areas that could have implications for global carbon budgets; and research into the behaviour and implications of micro-plastics in our environment. The researchers carrying out these projects will drive New Zealand’s ambitions in pioneering world-leading research.

💬 Naisi Chen: How will this Government’s investment into science support the Government’s COVID-19 response efforts and ongoing health response?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Science has always been at the heart of the Government’s response to COVID-19. Projects funded through the Marsden Fund include supporting research into the impact of the last 18 months on our rangatahi as they moved into an online learning environment and understanding why people change their beliefs. We’ve also invested $33 million through the COVID-19 Innovation Acceleration Fund to support innovative research projects and technology that mitigate the impact or prevent the spread of COVID-19. These included epidemiological modelling, genomic sequencing, and detection of COVID-19 in waste water, which has underpinned New Zealand’s ability to respond to COVID-19 and contain the virus. I want to congratulate and thank everyone involved for their impactful work that will benefit this country’s long-term future and transform people’s lives for the better.

Question No. 4—Prime Minister

4. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and policies?

Yes. In particular, I stand by the actions of this Government that have seen the gender pay gap drop to its lowest level, at 8.6 percent. This is the direct result of many efforts made. We’re also seeing the unemployment rate for women dropping to 3.4 percent—the lowest in over a decade—and the under-utilisation rate for women drop to an equally historical low of 10.9 percent. We know more needs to be done. We’ve got further work to go on reducing the pay gap for Māori, Pacific, and Asian workforces, but this demonstrates that reducing the gender pay gap is possible with concerted effort and with the Government, public services, and unions working together.

💬 David Seymour: Why does she believe those employment statistics when unemployment keeps going down at the same time that the number of people on the job seeker benefit and the amount spent on welfare keeps going up?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Actually, we have seen declines across job seeker relative to early on, particularly in the COVID-19 pandemic.

💬 David Seymour: Does she believe her Government implements its policies competently, and, if so, why is it now using debt collectors to recover up to $36 million worth of managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) fees it didn’t collect when the guests stayed—something that every private sector hotel in the world somehow manages?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would refer the member to the fact that—if I recall correctly—we’ve had something in the order of $99 million worth of MIQ costs paid by individuals who have come through the system. Over the course of the programme, we have altered the invoicing system to ensure that we obtain greater efficiencies around it, but it’s not unfair to have an expectation that people pay the bill that they were fairly issued as part of our border protection framework.

💬 David Seymour: Which of her statements more accurately describes the Government’s policy for vaccination targets: is it her own 14 September statement that “we’ve not given a specific number”, or her 22 October statement that we’d need a “90 percent fully vaccinated [target set] across each DHB region” before the rest of the country moves into the new traffic light system?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, the member well knows that we’ve said all along that we want the highest rates of vaccine in New Zealand possible—the highest rates. In fact, Dr Bloomfield himself has continually talked about milestones. There will never be an endpoint for us so long as there are individuals in New Zealand who are eligible to be vaccinated who are not vaccinated. Every single percentage is an extra layer of protection for the country, and I would hope that we can all agree on that. The member has asked a question around when we would alter our COVID strategy as a result of vaccines. Yes, we’ve given an indication that the COVID protection framework—indicatively, we’d want high vaccination levels in order to move into it. We’ve got a decision-making day with Cabinet on 29 November, and we have indicated that we will be pragmatic around some of those calls relative to our vaccination levels.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her statement that “There’s a strong view coming through from the Ministry of Health that we should consider moving to the protection framework, or traffic light system, earlier because it provides greater protection.”, and if she does stand by that statement, at what level of vaccination is the traffic light system safer than the alert level system?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, I do stand by that statement and—as I said in an earlier response to the Leader of the Opposition—it does require, though, of course, it to be coupled with high rates of vaccination. Ultimately, though, the higher the rate, the greater protection we have as a whole. The COVID protection framework then uses that layer of protection via vaccine passes. There is a balance to be struck in there, though. You do want to make sure that you’ve got enough people who are vaccinated to fairly and equitably still be accessing parts of the sector who will be relying on vaccine passes to operate.

💬 David Seymour: So at what rate of vaccination does it become true that the traffic light system offers more protection than the alert level system?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The traffic light system offers protection by ensuring that only vaccinated individuals are accessing certain facilities. If you do not have COVID in your community, then, actually, that becomes a moot point, but we are starting to see COVID cases that need to be managed and that we need to protect people from. The COVID protection framework allows you to do that without having to have people in level 3 restrictions.

💬 David Seymour: So at what rate does the traffic light system offer more protection than the alert level system, and does she understand that New Zealanders would really like to know that because it would explain when a move might be safe to make, or is it actually the case that—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member’s had two legs.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’ve already responded to the question. The COVID protection framework cannot operate unless you have vaccinated individuals in the community. That is why, on the advice of experts—they’ve said the higher the rate, the better the protection. They have said that a target of preference of 90 percent—we’ve said that on 29 November, we’ll assess our rates at that point and make decisions about the movement into the framework.

💬 David Seymour: Is not the real problem that the law and the software for the COVID protection framework are not ready yet, and the vaccination rates are not the problem; she’s just buying time for the software—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Absolutely not. In fact, one of the concerns—until you have high vaccination rates, if you choose to no longer use some of the blanket restrictions we’ve had available to us, there is concern of course that outbreaks, both because you don’t have high enough vaccination rates and because you aren’t using widespread restrictions, get out of control. That is why you have to have both good vaccination rates and a framework that utilises those vaccination rates to maximise the safety for the whole population. I’m happy to have the member receive a personal briefing on some of the decisions that have been made to date on the COVID protection framework if he so chooses.

💬 David Seymour: Well, thank you for that offer. Does the Prime Minister agree with the statement “Climate change is my generation’s nuclear-free moment.”, and does she stand by her Government’s policies where New Zealanders face higher electricity prices, rising carbon emissions, and record imports of Indonesian coal, or was the nuclear-free moment always meant to be coal-powered?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Before the Prime Minister answers, I am going to remind members in the gallery that their interjections count in the same way as those on the floor do.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, I do, and the point I’d make to the member is that without considerable investment—for instance, if we continue to simply rely on the 80plus percent of renewable electricity generation we have today and do nothing about the fact that we have no renewable solution for when we have a dry year—then, yes, we will continue to be relying on fossil fuels, which is why we’ve made investments to try and overcome that issue, alongside the work that we’re doing with the private sector to decarbonise energy generation in those fossil fuel - dependent industries. I note that the member would choose to do nothing in that regard.

Question No. 5—Health

5. to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his September statement, “The reality is we have available at the moment roughly 325 ICU or ICU capable beds”; if so, how does he reconcile that answer with his response to written question No. 50686 that “there are 284 resourced ICU/high dependency unit beds”?

Yes, and officials advised recently that they have changed the basis on which they calculate ICU and ICU-capable beds.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Does he agree that it is resourced ICU beds that are important and that ICU nurses are a limiting factor?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What’s important is for people to know that, if they require intensive care because of COVID, in our public hospital system, they will get that care, and the care that is required means a bed, means a ventilator—if that is necessary—and it means staff who are capable of providing that care, and we will have that care in place.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: How, then, does he reconcile his claim that we can add 225 surge ICU beds if needed with Friday’s peer-reviewed editorial in the New Zealand Medical Journal, which found New Zealand only has enough ICU nurses to add 67 ICU beds, not the 225 he is claiming?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, very easily. We have a number of beds that are in designated ICU wards in our hospitals around the country, and then we have a number of other beds in other parts of hospitals—for example, in post-operative recovery and in other areas. And, then, with the additional training that has been given to nursing staff and others, and with the additional ventilators that are available, officials advise that we can provide surge capacity for that additional care if we need it.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: So are the three ICU specialists who wrote in the New Zealand Medical Journal wrong?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I go on the advice of Ministry of Health officials—which includes the Chief Medical Officer, who himself is a senior surgeon from Counties Manukau Health—and a range of other specialists and experts, who put that advice together, who are very careful about making sure that the facilities we have available in the New Zealand public hospital network are capable of providing the care that is needed, particularly in the face of the pandemic.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Why are there only four resourced ICU beds in the whole of the Lakes DHB area, with either three or all four beds in use for 60 percent of the last two months, and will he give an absolute assurance to the people of Rotorua and Taupō that no one who needs a resourced ICU bed will miss out?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The answer to that question is very simple, and that’s the “graph of shame”. [Holds up graph] If you want to have a look at the history of investment in public health facilities over the last 14 years, the nine years of short, stubby blue bars is the National Party, and the tall handsome red ones are the Labour Party. The reality is that the Labour Government, in four years, has invested six times as much in public health facilities than the nine years of the previous National Government. What I can reassure that member, because of his failure to speak up for his own constituents in the time that his party was in Government, is that we will have the care available for people who require hospital-level care as a result of the pandemic. And, if it’s not in their local hospital, it will be because the response that we are putting in place is organised on a regional hospital basis, and they will get that care in the public hospital system that they need.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Point of order, Mr Speaker?

💬 SPEAKER: I’m going to warn the member: if he complains about the answer—

💬 Hon Todd McClay: No, I’m not complaining about the answer, and you’ll be able to judge when I finish.

💬 SPEAKER: I can’t imagine what another point of order would be.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Well, that’s the great thing about points of order; one doesn’t have to imagine.

All right. The member will have a go, and if it’s disorderly, he’ll go.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Thank you. Mr Speaker, there was so much noise I couldn’t hear the Minister—whether he confirmed there were only four beds.

Well, that’s exactly the point I made to the member. It was a complaint about not being able to hear it. The member will leave the Chamber.

Hon Todd McClay withdrew from the Chamber.

Question No. 6—COVID-19 Response

6. to the Minister for COVID19 Response: What recent announcements have been made on New Zealand’s COVID-19 vaccine immunisation programme?

Following Medsafe’s approval of the Pfizer vaccine as a booster, the Government announced yesterday that we’ll roll out a booster vaccination programme and that doses will be available from 29 November. The Pfizer vaccine will be used for boosters, regardless of which vaccine was used for earlier doses. It’s the same Pfizer vaccine that’s been used for the first and second doses for most New Zealanders through our vaccination roll-out. Vaccination is the best protection against COVID-19. People will be able to access boosters in New Zealand, whether they received their earlier doses here or overseas. With our eligible population now at 90 percent for first doses, and 81 percent fully vaccinated, we’re now amongst one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, and we can continue to keep ahead of the pack by rolling out boosters.

💬 Vanushi Walters: What criteria, if any, will there be to obtain a booster shot, and what does this mean for people who have had two doses?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I would note that most other countries are rationing booster doses to certain segments of their population. We’ve made the decision to make boosters available to everybody six months after their primary vaccine course was finished. Accordingly, most of this roll-out will happen naturally in 2020. That ensures simplicity and it also helps to ensure equity. Our focus will be on encouraging the most at risk of COVID, including our health workers, our border workers, and our Māori and Pacific communities. We’ll also be making sure older people and our kaumātua, including people in aged residential care, have good access to booster doses when they become available. People don’t necessarily need to rush to get this done. If you’ve been vaccinated, you’re still very well protected from infection and from becoming seriously ill if you were to get COVID-19—Pfizer protection, for example, ranges from 85 to 93 percent in its effectiveness against severe disease, for hospitalisation it’s is 80 percent - plus.

💬 Vanushi Walters: How many people will be eligible for a booster shot this year, and do we have sufficient stock to accommodate all eligible New Zealanders?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: There are currently 144,000 people in New Zealand who’ve been vaccinated for six months or more. By the end of the year, we expect that to increase to 455,847 people. We’ve got heaps of vaccines available to support the booster shots for eligible New Zealanders, and, of course, we’ve ordered an extra 4.7 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine for 2022. I’m also pleased to say that we have recently approved the use of AstraZeneca for those who are unable to get the Pfizer vaccine. We’ve got enough supply, as well, to ensure that if future eligibility extends to five- to 11-year-olds, or we have a surge in people getting vaccinated through the booster programme, we’ll be able to meet that demand.

Question No. 7—Finance

7. to the Minister of Finance: Have wages kept up with inflation in New Zealand over the last 12 months; if not, does this mean New Zealand households are worse off than they were 12 months ago?

The member knows that across the world we are seeing higher rates of inflation, and New Zealand is not immune from that. We can see this in the 4.6 percent average rate of inflation across OECD countries for the year to October 2021. Though inflation has risen above the rate of hourly earnings increases as a result of the recent quarterly data, over a longer period of time real wage growth has been strong. Since 2018, wages have risen by 3.5 percent on average annually, while inflation has risen by 2 percent annually over the same period, and, as recently as the second quarter of this year, wages had been rising ahead of inflation. In answer to the second part of the question, this is not necessarily the case. For example, approximately 116,000 more people are employed than 12 months ago, and 37,000 fewer people are working less hours than they would like to. The Government has also announced an historic investment in our welfare system, which builds on earlier measures, such as the Families Package and the indexation of benefit levels to wages. I do acknowledge that the rising cost of items such as petrol and food places a strain on household budgets. However, the Government’s approach of supporting employment through COVID-19 and improving the adequacy of income support has put many households in a better position to manage these increases.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Can he confirm that with inflation at nearly 5 percent, it is over double the increase in wages and salaries, which means New Zealand households are materially worse off?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I can confirm is annual wage growth, using the average hourly earnings measure, was 3.5 percent in the most recent data, compared to 4.9 percent for inflation.

💬 Andrew Bayly: How does he expect a family to afford fruit and veggies when prices have risen just under 10 percent in the year to September, the largest increase since this index was measured?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in my primary answer, the cost of food is something that places a strain on household budgets. It’s one of the reasons that we focused on making sure we lift the incomes of low-income New Zealanders. I welcome this change of heart from the National Party to support benefit increases.

💬 Andrew Bayly: How does a young student or pensioner on a fixed income afford to pay their rent for new tenancies—new tenancies—that have increased by almost 8 percent in the year to September?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is using the flow measure, as he notes, of rental prices—

💬 Andrew Bayly: And are you going to use the stock?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: He’s reading my mind. But, actually, I’m not. What I’m going to tell him is that while it was 7.8 percent in September, it was 5.8 percent in October. It shows the volatility of that particular measure. He is better off using the stock measure, which was an increase of 3.3 percent.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Has he seen any opposition to measures that are designed to increase household incomes?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Sadly, I have seen opposition to measures such as increasing the rates of benefit, or, indeed, increasing the minimum wage on a regular basis to support low-income New Zealanders, but consistency is not something I’m looking for across the House.

💬 Andrew Bayly: What does he say to Aucklanders who have spent 91 days in lockdown, who are facing rapidly increasing costs of living, making it much more difficult to put food on the table and to buy presents for Christmas?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I say to Aucklanders is what I’ve said several times in this House—that I thank them for the sacrifices that they have made on behalf of New Zealanders to make sure that we can get through this pandemic, and I also say to them that they can rely on the Government to stick to the plan we’ve got, which has led to us having one of the lowest mortality rates in the world, and an economic recovery better than many other countries in the world.

Question No. 8—Police

8. to the Minister of Police: What recent reports has she seen regarding Police’s efforts to disrupt organised crime?

I’ve seen reports that Police Operation Mist has resulted in the seizure of more than 50 kilograms of cocaine; nine individuals arrested; and $300,000 in cash, cocaine, and cryptocurrency wallets seized. Operation Mist has delivered a massive blow to an organised crime syndicate who Police believe to be one of the major suppliers of cocaine into New Zealand. Based on waste-water data, Police believe this group were supplying the majority of cocaine into New Zealand. The success of this operation is testament to the hard work of police officers and the relationships they have built with their international colleagues, including the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, Colombian national police, the Spanish customs service, and the Cook Islands customs service.

💬 Ginny Andersen: What other recent actions have Police taken to disrupt organised crime and the illicit drug trade?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I’ve also seen reports that, as part of Operation Freya, Police and Customs have dismantled a sophisticated drug dealing and smuggling operation, making 12 arrests and seizing $8 million worth of drugs in the process. Together, these two operations have struck a major blow to organised crime and the supply of illicit drugs in New Zealand.

💬 Ginny Andersen: How is the Government supporting Police in their efforts to disrupt organised crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: This Government recognises the harm caused by gangs and organised crime in our community, and that’s why we’ve undertaken significant cross-Government work to respond to local, national, and transnational organised crime. We’ve committed to amending the proceeds of crime legislation to ensure that those involved in organised crime would have to demonstrate their assets were obtained through legitimate means. If they can’t, their assets will be seized. We’re putting a record number of police on the front line with a specific focus on organised crime. This Government’s record investment in Police will include 700 additional investigators. This operation highlights the excellent impact these officers can have.

Question No. 9—COVID-19 Response

9. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: On what date did the Ministry of Health sign a contract with MATTR to develop a vaccination pass for domestic use, and is he satisfied with progress in the development of a domestic vaccine pass?

Work began to establish My Health Account and My COVID Record in April 2021. I’m advised that a standard tender process was followed for the work to put the certificate part of that system in place. That commenced in July. A request for proposals was released on 9 July to seven suppliers. The Ministry of Health standard procurement process was then followed. The evaluation panel recommendation was approved on 15 September and the contract was signed on 13 October. In answer to the second part of the question, yes. Like all matters related to COVID-19, the Government’s taken a measured and considered approach to ensure that New Zealand’s got access to reliable and safe technology to protect ourselves from COVID-19, both domestically and around the world.

💬 Chris Bishop: So just for clarity, can he confirm to the House that the contract for the development of the vaccination pass was only signed by the Government a month ago?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes, for the very last part of the process, which is the actual downloadable certificate part of the process. But, as I indicated, what sits behind that, which is people’s vaccination records and the ability to access their vaccination records, the work on that began in April.

💬 Chris Bishop: What is the explanation, if there is one, as to why it took until October 2021 for the very final part of the vaccine certificate process to be contracted for development?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I indicated, the tender part of that process started back in July, and given the member who has just resumed her seat has criticised the Ministry of Health in the past for not following tender processes for IT-related projects, I’m sure he would support there being a full tender process.

💬 Chris Bishop: Did any of the health advice that was provided in the lead up to yesterday’s Cabinet meeting make any reference to the fact that My Vaccine Pass is still in the final stages of development, and did this inform decisions not to move Auckland to the COVID protection framework earlier than later?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I’m very confident that the vaccine certificates will be available when we move to the protection framework.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. Mr Speaker, that wasn’t actually the question. It was: “Did any of the health advice for yesterday’s Cabinet meeting make any reference to the fact that My Vaccine was still in the final stages of development?”

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Speaking to that point of order, Mr Speaker, I addressed the last part of the member’s question. It had multiple prongs to it and I addressed the second one.

💬 SPEAKER: That’s the rules—you have multiple legs; you only have to answer one.

💬 Chris Bishop: Can he confirm that the decision to keep Auckland at the current alert level 3, step 2 setting and not move the region to the COVID protection framework has nothing to do with the fact that My Vaccine Pass is not available to Aucklanders and, in fact, New Zealanders today?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I think the question somewhat contradicts itself, but the fact that the certificates are not yet available to download is not a factor in the current situation in Auckland.

Question No. 10—Economic and Regional Development

10. to the Minister for Economic and Regional Development: What announcements has he made regarding climate standards for new Government buildings?

Last week, Minister Shaw and I announced that from 1 April 2022 all new non-residential Government buildings with a capital value of over $25 million will have to meet a minimum Green Star rating of 5. As of the 1 April 2023, this standard will apply to all new non-residential Government buildings with a capital value of over $9 million. These minimum standards will ensure Government buildings achieve a level of excellence and climate-friendly design and construction rarely seen in New Zealand. Our Government has committed to achieving carbon neutrality in the public sector within five years, and this announcement takes us a step closer towards delivering on that promise.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: How will this rating system work?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The Green Star standard operates on a system of 100 points, with 4 star, 5 star or 6 star ratings available. A 5-star rating requires between 60 and 74 points, with points allocated for reductions in operational and embodied carbon, construction and operational waste, as well as other climate-friendly features such as reduced stormwater discharge or peak electricity demand. Buildings are big emitters, but the solution to this, such as improved design, better waste management, improved water and energy efficiency, and the low use of low-carbon materials, is achievable. This particular Green Star system is administered by the New Zealand Green Building Council and is adapted to suit a New Zealand context.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: What feedback has he received on this announcement?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: A lot of positive feedback. For example, Cristina Gamboa, head of the World Green Building Council, speaking from COP-26 in Glasgow, has said, and I quote, that “This government promise … catapulted Aotearoa to the forefront of countries who recognize that buildings have a critical role to play in tackling climate change” and that “This ambitious policy shows exactly the kind of leadership that is needed, and we’ll be using it as an example to encourage other national governments to follow in New Zealand’s footsteps.”

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: How much does he expect applying the Green Star 5 standard to non-residential Government buildings will reduce the waste produced in their design and construction, and how will the Government measure that reduction?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: It’s my understanding that the Green Star framework requires about 70 percent of construction waste to be diverted from landfill. This will be achieved by, for example, using recyclable products like building out of wood.

Question No. 11—Housing (Public Housing)

11. to the Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing): Does she expect Kāinga Ora to evict public housing tenants where their ongoing anti-social behaviour is threatening the wellbeing of others, or does she agree with the decision of Kāinga Ora to not evict a tenant living in public housing in Whangārei, despite the tenant reportedly subjecting their elderly neighbours to a “prolonged campaign of intimidation and fear”?

Everyone has the right to feel safe and secure living in their home, and I would expect Kāinga Ora to do all they can to ensure that this is the case. I’m concerned about reports on this particular case and I’ve asked for an update from officials. Kāinga Ora takes complaints seriously and I expect them to get involved as soon as they become aware of an issue at one of their properties. Eviction is a very specific process. It involves the Tenancy Tribunal ending a tenancy and a court bailiff taking possession of the property. It is not the only tool available to Kāinga Ora to deal with antisocial behaviour. People who need help to be housed can sometimes have complex issues in their lives that may lead to antisocial behaviour. Our Government is committed to sustaining tenancies to ensure that they have a secure foundation from which they can get the support that they need.

💬 Nicola Willis: Has Kāinga Ora evicted any of its tenants in the past three years, and if not, why not?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: An eviction is a very specific process that involves, as I’ve said, the Tenancy Tribunal ending the tenancy, and the court bailiff taking possession of the property. I’m advised that three evictions from Kāinga Ora homes have occurred since September 2017. I would note that eviction is not the only tool available to Kāinga Ora to deal with antisocial behaviour.

💬 Nicola Willis: Did Kāinga Ora evict any tenants this year, in 2020, or in 2019, and if not, why not?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: It’s worth acknowledging that while Kāinga Ora has not evicted households for antisocial behaviour in recent years, in the last 12 months alone, we have worked to relocate 159 households with antisocial behaviour concerns.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! That did not address the question. The Minister will answer again, addressing the question asked.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: No. It is worth—

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member has now answered the question. Thank you.

💬 Nicola Willis: Well, is it correct, as reported, that Kāinga Ora now has an internal policy that has prevented the agency evicting even the most difficult abusive tenants for the past three years?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: We do not have a no-evictions policy. What we do have is a sustaining tenancies policy, a policy that has been in place since the last National Government. If the member would like more information on the sustaining tenancies policy, I would refer her to the Hon Amy Adams’ letter of expectations to Housing New Zealand, dated April 2017.

💬 Nicola Willis: What would it take for a tenant to be evicted on that Minister’s watch, if not the death threats and ongoing abuse experienced by a retired couple in Whangārei whose Black Power neighbour threatened to slit an 82-year-old’s throat to watch him bleed out?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: As I’ve said, everyone has the right to feel safe and secure when living in their home. Kāinga Ora take seriously complaints regarding antisocial behaviour and I expect them to get involved as soon as they become aware of the issue at their properties. I would also note that there is also an opportunity for them to call the police if serious threats are being made.

Question No. 12—Agriculture

12. to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by his statement that, relating to PKE, “the New Zealand Government would not support importation that has led to illegal activity in foreign nations”; if so, why?

on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture: To the first part of that question, yes. And second part: because New Zealand does not support the illegal importation of goods. New Zealand businesses need to ensure the integrity of their supply chains and that they are operating consistently within the laws of the relevant country.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Has the Minister directed his agencies to investigate recent reports linking Fonterra’s palm kernel expeller (PKE) supplier, Wilmar International, to illegal palm oil plantations and deforestation in Indonesia, and, if not, why not?

On behalf of the Minister, while I can’t speak on behalf of Federated Farmers, the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) and industry are working together with farmers on how they can farm without PKE, and this work will continue.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Is the Minister concerned that New Zealand’s status as the largest importer of PKE in the world is a reputational risk to our agricultural sector, following the Government joining a global commitment to halt deforestation by 2030 at COP-26 last week, and, if not, why not?

The Government takes deforestation very, very seriously. In relation to that specific question, for the member, the dairy system is overwhelmingly pasture based. So I’m advised that approximately 80 to 85 percent of a New Zealand dairy cow’s diet is pasture, with the remaining being supplementary feed. And all crops growing PKE account for approximately 6 to 7 percent of the total feed consumed by New Zealand dairy cows, and around a third of the non-pasture feed. It might be of interest for the member to know that PKE imports peaked in 2018 and have fallen by 17 percent, by volume, since then.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does the Minister agree with the recent comment from Federated Farmers’ dairy chairman that, referring to PKE, “We have farmed without it before and we could again.”, and, if not, why not?

Absolutely. Actually, the Federated Farmers chairman, Wayne Langford’s full quote, which I support, goes: “It would definitely be a change to the systems currently in place. But we have farmed without it before and we could again.”

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Will he seek advice from his officials on New Zealand’s use of PKE sourced from palm oil plantations overseas and options for addressing this?

I’m advised that this Government, and through the work of MPI—that we have an enormous regenerative farming programme that’s currently operating throughout the country now. This Government has invested $6.5 million in regenerative agriculture projects through the Sustainable Food and Fibres Futures. So, yes, we would be looking at overseas models, for that member, but we’ve got our own programme of work that will address the very issue the member has raised.

Question No. 5 to Minister

Point of order. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I regret not raising this at the end of question No. 5, but in your reflections on today’s question time, I wonder if you would review whether answers by Ministers that led to disorder were consistent with or in breach of Speaker’s rulings 191(1) and (2).

I’ll certainly have a look.