Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The resilience of the New Zealand economy has been demonstrated by last week’s Statistics New Zealand job figures for the September 2021 quarter. The data showed the unemployment rate fell from 4 percent in June to a record-equalling low of 3.4 percent in the September quarter, last seen in December 2007. The number of unemployed fell by 18,000 to 98,000. The last time it was under 100,000 was in the September 2008 quarter. The unemployment rate is now 14 percent below where it was in the pre - COVID-19 December 2019 quarter. The data also shows that the economy continued to add jobs, with 54,000 more people in employment than in the June quarter. The number of people in employment is up by 115,000 since the September 2020 quarter, when unemployment peaked at 5.3 percent.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What else did the report say about the state of the labour market and its impact on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Statistics New Zealand reports job growth was driven by full-time and permanent employment. On an annual basis, the construction industry remained a strong driver of employment, while quarterly growth in professions such as health, engineering, science, and transport were all strong. With the second half of the September 2021 quarter affected by the lockdown restrictions, actual hours worked dropped 6.6 percent over the quarter as industries such as accommodation and food services and retail trade were less able to operate. The ongoing impact of the pandemic is likely to see unemployment rates move around a bit, but I believe that the balanced approach taken by the Government has supported the strong employment results that we are seeing.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What reactions has he seen to the employment data as an indicator of the strength of the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Economists had expected the unemployment rate would fall in the September quarter, but the figure of 3.4 percent exceeded all expectations. The result is also well below the Budget 2021 update, which forecast unemployment to be at 5.3 percent in the September 2021 quarter. Westpac’s economists said, “The September quarter labour force surveys marked another stunningly strong data point for the New Zealand economy.” ANZ said the data reinforced that the labour market has been incredibly resilient in the face of higher alert levels, and Kiwibank’s economists said, “Not a single headline metric hit a bum note.” Employment surged, unemployment fell, underemployment dropped, participation rose, and the lion’s share of the gains came from female employees. They said the demand for labour was expected to remain strong. This is a good result and a testament to the hard work of businesses and workers right across New Zealand.

💬 David Seymour: Has the Minister of Finance seen any reports that, in the last year, wage growth went up 2.4 percent, inflation went up 4.9 percent, and does he think that might be why more and more New Zealanders are concerned about the cost of living under this Government?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: New Zealanders have always been concerned about the cost of living and the rising prices around New Zealand. I would note the member’s new found support for lifts in the minimum wage, which I’ll note for next time.

💬 SPEAKER: Supplementary question.

💬 David Seymour: I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker, I was rising for question No. 2.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statements and policies?

Yes, particularly the Government support package we announced on Saturday, which will see the incomes of 346,000 families increase by an average of $20 a week. The family tax credit was scheduled to have an inflation increase on 1 April next year, and we’ve invested an additional $272 million over four years so that low and middle income families can get extra support, particularly at this time. Those with family incomes less than $40,000 will benefit the most, with an average increase of $26 per week. Reducing child poverty is a priority for this Government. It’s estimated a further 6,000 children will be lifted out of poverty as a result of these changes. That’s in addition to the up to 33,000 children who’ll be lifted out of poverty by the increase in benefit levels earlier this year. This is one way we can support families during this time.

💬 David Seymour: What has been the impact of moving Waikato, with a vaccination rate of 72 percent, to alert level 3 step 2 since last Wednesday, and why does the Prime Minister think it was justified to delay moving Auckland to the same level until tomorrow, when Auckland was at 80 percent fully vaccinated a week ago?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Simply the scale and nature of the outbreaks that both are dealing with. In the Waikato, what we are clear on is that this is an outbreak with a clearly long tail on it, and, at the present point in time, the vast bulk of those cases have been linked cases but you can see the spread through some wider parts of the Waikato that continue to emerge. Contrast that with Auckland—that has been an outbreak that has been projected to grow, we’ve been very open about that, but increasing vaccination rates give us the confidence to, regardless of that growing outbreak, continue to ease restrictions, starting with the safest restrictions first, with the ultimate goal, as we have clearly articulated, being the point at which we reach 90 percent double vaccinated, which is when we can flip into a point where business has certainty at every single level and will be able to operate at every single level.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister stand by moving Auckland to alert level 3 step 2, and, if so, why does she believe it’s safe for hairdressers and hospitality to operate in the Northland DHB, where the full vaccination rate is 68 percent, but not the Waitematā, Auckland, and Counties Manukau DHBs, where the full vaccination rate is between 81 and 87 percent?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Simply because, on average, they don’t currently have an outbreak that is sitting, on average, at about 140 to 150 cases a day.

💬 David Seymour: Why is it safer for people to go into a supermarket and buy food for a picnic or barbecue than it is to dine al fresco at a restaurant, and will the Prime Minister visit any Auckland restaurants to explain that to them tomorrow?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: All the way through the COVID pandemic, you’ll see that we have treated hospitality differently to retail, and that’s because globally you can see that those areas where you do tend to see outbreaks and spread are in those environments that are considered to be high risk, and, very unfortunately, that has been the hospitality sector. What we’ve tried to design with the COVID protection framework is, though, an environment where we’re using the tools we have, including public health measures but also the use of vaccines to give greater certainty to those businesses so that they are able to stay open more consistently, versus the environment we’ve had in the past where we have seen closures. New Zealand has not been alone in that. I understand that in parts of Canada, they’ve only just now returned to those businesses being able to fully operate after over a year. So we are not alone in the fact that those have been treated as high-risk environments.

💬 David Seymour: Well, why is it safe for people to get shots of cosmetic Botox in Auckland but not a haircut, and will she visit any hairdressers in Auckland tomorrow and explain that one to them?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously, at this stage, you’re right that hairdressers have not been operating, because they are what is defined as close personal services. So for any service where it’s actually impossible to physically distance, the member will obviously appreciate that that increases risk. Again, I would say the same thing, that Auckland has now reached 90 percent first doses. It’s our expectation, therefore, that it’s within their sights, three weeks from that point, to be at 90 percent double doses. We’ve already said that’s the point where we’ll move into the new COVID protection framework, which will enable those businesses to operate at every level.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister believe that being at orange in the new COVID-19 Protection Framework, or traffic light system, will offer greater benefits than being at alert level 2, and, if so, why wouldn’t she allow Wellington, Christchurch, Otago, and Southland, which all have equal or higher vaccination rates than Counties Manukau, to move to the traffic light system when she said Auckland will, after 29 November?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because at the time we announced it, we gave the rationale for allowing Auckland to move in that way, and that is because of the border that sits around Auckland. Because of that border, we wanted to be able to acknowledge the significant work that Aucklanders had done to reach those vaccination levels and enable them to move themselves. To answer the first part of the member’s question: yes, there are greater freedoms offered at that amber, that orange level, and that’s because those gathering limits don’t exist. But we are seeking that New Zealand, as a whole, seek to reach the highest vaccination levels we can, and we’ve set that 90 percent as a milestone for the precise reason that we have seen that we are very mobile, we move around. We want different parts of New Zealand to have that protection when we move into what, essentially, will be a place where there are greater freedoms.

💬 David Seymour: Why is the Government still requiring international arrivals whose final destination is Auckland to go through any level of managed isolation and quarantine if they’re fully vaccinated and have tested negative for COVID-19, when over 700 people who’ve tested positive for COVID are allowed to self-isolate in Auckland; or are the University of Otago’s Nick Wilson and Michael Baker wrong when they say, “If you’re at the supermarket in Auckland, a fully vaccinated person randomly teleported from Canada is less likely to infect you than an average resident Aucklander in the aisles.”?

💬 SPEAKER: Before the Prime Minister answers, because I’m sort of feeling generous, that question was manifestly excessive in length and while each of the legs might have just got there, overall it was not succinct. I will allow the Prime Minister to answer the question, but I want this to serve as a general warning that that length of question is not succinct enough to stay within the Speakers’ rulings.

💬 David Seymour: A point of order, Mr Speaker—

💬 SPEAKER: Look, I’ve just been generous to the member. If he wants to argue with me, I will rule tightly on the book.

💬 David Seymour: Mr Speaker, I’d never argue with you.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, that is deliberately misleading the House.

💬 David Seymour: Perhaps. Mr Speaker, I guess my question is—and people at home will be wondering, because they will have noticed that even that question was shorter than every single answer in length, and shouldn’t there be some parity in that?

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member will learn one day that there is a difference between a question and an answer.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mr Speaker, for the sake of brevity then, I refer the member to Dr Ashley Bloomfield’s response to that research that he gave yesterday. And to answer the wider question around allowing New Zealanders who are double vaccinated to isolate at home, that is exactly what we are working towards, and we already have a self-isolation pilot under way, as we speak, to enable that.

💬 David Seymour: Who should New Zealanders listen to: Chris Hipkins, who said Aucklanders might need a time slot to leave the city; Grant Robertson, who said that idea’s impractical; or herself, the Prime Minister, who’s refused to rule the idea out?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What I can be clear on is they certainly shouldn’t listen to that member, because we would have a pandemic that would have led to mass hospitalisations and carnage if we had followed his playbook for COVID.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Will she take the advice of Professor Michael Baker, as endorsed by the leader of the ACT Party, that people leaving Auckland should have to do self-isolation every time they leave Auckland?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is absolutely correct, that was a hard border around Auckland, essentially, where we transfer those obligations into turning Auckland almost into a quarantine seemed to be the suggestion of that research, and I think there’d be a good chunk of the population who would have a very clear view on that.

💬 David Seymour: A point of order. Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance. I’d never endorse that part of Michael Baker’s advice. I think it is unfair of him to characterise it for me.

Well, that might be the case but the member, again, knows that that is not a point of order. The member actually knows the Speakers’ rulings and the Standing Orders better than the vast majority of members in the House, and I just want to invite the member to choose to use his knowledge.

Question No. 3—Housing

3. to the Minister of Housing: What action is the Government taking to get more houses built in Auckland?

This morning, I announced the Government is stepping in to fund much-needed infrastructure to enable more houses to be built in Auckland: our latest investment of $282 million in Government-led large-scale projects—or LSPs—from the Housing Acceleration Fund announced in March. This will enable up to 1,260 additional homes across five Auckland suburbs: Mount Roskill, Māngere, Tāmaki, Oranga, and Northcote. This is another significant investment in Tāmaki-makau-rau, which needs more investment in underlying housing infrastructure like pipes and roads. Today’s announcement enabling around 1,260 additional homes is, of course, on top of the 2,500 additional homes enabled in these areas that have already been supported by Government funding.

💬 Camilla Belich: Why is the Government supporting Auckland Council to get infrastructure built?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We’re stepping in with funding in these areas to fix decades of under-investment in infrastructure that will have wider benefits for the communities, including improved sewerage and flood protection. Auckland is forecast to need an additional 330,000 dwellings by 2050. Replacing ageing pipes and improving roading is essential to futureproof and grow these communities. These developments provide quality housing where it is needed most, and the investment in infrastructure unlocks the potential for future market-led development. This is a key part of our Government’s plan to address the housing crisis by increasing supply through our strategically located developments in areas where people want to live.

💬 Camilla Belich: How else is the Government supporting local government to get houses built?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The Government’s $3.8 billion Housing Acceleration Fund announced in March will jump-start housing developments and will help green-light tens of thousands of house builds across Aotearoa in the short to medium term. Local government and developers have told the Government that investment in infrastructure is one of the most important contributions that central government can make to increasing housing supply. The Housing Acceleration Fund is the cornerstone of the Government’s plan to address the housing crisis. Today’s announcement invests in the enabling infrastructure that will allow these neighbourhoods to intensify and supports further private development in the places we want it: close to transport and jobs.

Question No. 4—Prime Minister

4. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, particularly the Government’s decision to fund a new mental health wellbeing package to help Aucklanders who, as we can all understand and appreciate, have experienced the distress of ongoing restrictions over a period of many weeks. This package is part of wider work under way to address the mental wellbeing of New Zealanders during the pandemic and provides extra resources for mental health and addiction services, a targeted mental health promotion campaign, and enhanced peer support through telehealth services. The investment follows earlier announcements made in response to Delta to support mental resilience for those in the Auckland region. We understand the ongoing mental and emotional strain of lockdown in Auckland, and I thank Aucklanders for the work they’re doing to protect the team of 5 million.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why are some people with COVID being forced to self-isolate in crowded emergency housing and cars, while thousands of fully vaccinated COVID-negative Kiwis are being forced to take up space in managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ)?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: In response to the first part of the member’s question, I reject that. The idea that anyone is forced is utterly incorrect. There is a public health assessment that is undertaken to determine whether or not a positive case should remain in home isolation. That includes assessing the current and potential emergent health needs of the case. It includes the suitability of the current place of residence. It includes, of course, the public health risk of onward transmission, and it does take into account, also, the circumstances of the individual and whānau. Ultimately, though, those assessments are undertaken by those who work in our health system alongside the person who is COVID positive.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So is the Prime Minister saying that the person who is self-isolating with COVID in his car is doing so by choice?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is utterly wrong to suggest anyone is forced. In fact, the option of being in a facility where we have capacity is available. We have spaces available in MIQ. They are made available for the purpose of caring for individuals. I cannot speak to the specifics of the example the member has raised. We have asked the health team to look into what has happened in those circumstances because, obviously, that is not an acceptable situation, I’m sure, to anyone in this House.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why are senior Cabinet Ministers disagreeing in public about whether Aucklanders will need to use allocated time slots for summer, and does this show her Government is just making it up as it goes along?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: To answer the first part of the question, they’re not.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Will Aucklanders have to show a negative COVID test or proof of vaccination before they can leave Auckland for Christmas?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’ve said many times in the public domain over several weeks that we will use tools available to us to give assurance to the rest of the country, if we’re able, around the protections for the rest of the country, around COVID-19, and to prevent or to slow the spread of COVID-19. So we’ve said that we are looking currently at what we can do with our land boundary. That, at the moment, would require us to be able to allow the smoothest movement possible of between 30,000 to 40,000 cars a day, and we have talked about the role of testing and vaccine certificates in that regime. There are two things we have to cover: we have given an assurance, which we stand by, that Aucklanders will be able to move for the Christmas and summer period, but at the same time, we have to, of course, give assurances to the rest of country around what we’re doing to try and slow the spread of COVID-19 in New Zealand.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: When is she finally going to give Aucklanders some clarity on how they’re going to be allowed to travel this summer?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I indicated yesterday, we will be giving further details next week.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why are Aucklanders being asked to wait yet another week when they’re already now in their 13th week of lockdown?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: New Zealand never in its history has operated a hard land boundary which would require facilitating the movement of 30,000 to 40,000 vehicles, and, of course, the use of some form of evidence in order to demonstrate the ability of an individual to move. That’s because New Zealand hasn’t experienced a pandemic of this nature since 1918. It is not part of the Government’s long-term plans that we will have hard borders of this nature, but whilst it is serving a purpose—to enable us to further slow COVID—then it’s a tool that, obviously, we’ve continued to use.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Does she stand by her statement yesterday that she won’t allow outdoor dining in Auckland because it wouldn’t be equitable for restaurants that didn’t have outdoor spaces, and is it her desire that all restaurant businesses should just suffer equally?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That’s actually not an accurate reflection of what I said yesterday. I was asked a question and my response was that we hadn’t specifically looked at provision to only allow those who are able, or have consent, for outdoor dining, but I didn’t rule it out. But it is not something we’ve considered to date, and there would be some in Auckland who wouldn’t have the consent of council to operate in that way and may perceive there to be equity issues with that.

Question No. 5—COVID-19 Response

5. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What recent progress has been made on New Zealand’s COVID-19 vaccine programme?

Over the weekend, New Zealand reached another important milestone in administering 7 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine across the country. As of last night, 3.76 million New Zealanders have received their first dose. That represents 89 percent of the eligible population across New Zealand. Over 3.3 million Kiwis have now had two doses of the vaccine, meaning that 79 percent of eligible New Zealanders are fully vaccinated. From here, every additional vaccination is another step closer to being able to transition to the new protection framework, which will mean restrictions will be able to ease for vaccinated New Zealanders.

💬 Helen White: What recent vaccination milestones have been reached in Auckland?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I’m very pleased to say that on Sunday, Counties Manukau DHB reached 90 percent first doses, meaning that all three Auckland DHBs have now crossed that 90 percent threshold for first doses. That is a key milestone on the path to Auckland opening up again. Auckland DHB is at 95 percent for first doses and at 87 percent for second. The Waitamatā DHB is at 92 percent for first doses and 83 percent for second doses, and Counties Manukau is now at 90 percent first doses and 80 percent for second doses. Auckland will move across to the new traffic light system with fewer restrictions once all three DHBs have reached that 90 percent fully vaccinated rate, which is now well and truly within reach.

💬 Helen White: What further work is being done to help promote uptake of the vaccine across Auckland?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: There’s been a huge amount of targeted work going across by local health providers to make sure vaccines are easily accessible and also to address the really important issue of vaccine hesitancy, and it’s good to see that that work’s paying off. In particular, I want to note the work of our Māori and Pacific providers in Counties Manukau. They are making a real difference. Getting to 90 percent first doses, in many cases, required them to literally go door to door and have individual conversations with people to address misinformation, among other things. Getting every DHB in Auckland up to the 90 percent fully vaccinated marker is now within our reach. On current daily rates, we could be there within a couple of weeks—within, potentially, two to three weeks—as long as people do return for their second dose. Everyone wants restrictions to be eased as soon as possible, and we need to keep going to get those final second doses up there so that we can start to ease those restrictions with confidence.

💬 Helen White: What recent progress has been made around the use of a booster vaccine as part of the COVID-19 vaccine programme?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Medsafe, who are the first step in the process, gazetted the decision yesterday to approve the use of booster doses for people aged 18 and older, at least six months after the first dose. That’s the first step in the process. The next step is for the COVID-19 Technical Advisory Group and the Ministry of Health to provide advice to the Government that will help to inform the use of booster doses. That will include whether there should be any age limits, the interval between the second dose and the booster dose, and so on. We understand that the health and border workforce are particularly concerned about whether or not they’ll be needing a booster dose, and so we’re working towards providing them that reassurance as soon as we can. I would note that the trials by Pfizer had a median interval between the second dose and the booster dose of 11 months, and no New Zealanders are currently in that category.

Question No. 6—Finance

6. to the Minister of Finance: How many Auckland and Waikato businesses are forced to take on debt or face closure each week as a result of level 3 restrictions?

The member asks a question that only individual business owners could answer. While I know that he is a fan of big Government, I personally don’t think the Government should have access to every single private business bank account. What I can tell the member is that since 17 August, the Government has supported businesses nationwide through $3.9 billion worth of support from the wage subsidy scheme and $1.4 billion through the resurgence support payment.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Well, why hasn’t his Government shown much more urgency in stopping the 16,751 businesses that closed in the last three months of his COVID restrictions—an increase of 123 percent compared to the same period two years ago, before COVID?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I’m not sure exactly where the member is getting that data from. The official data from the Companies Office tells us that since the middle of August 2021, there have been 14,337 company registrations; 1,143 of which have a postcode in the Waikato, and 6,642 of which have a postcode in Auckland. In contrast, there were 8,762 company deregistrations since mid-August 2021; 659 with a postcode in Waikato, and 3,930 with a postcode in Auckland.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Does he still believe that less than a handful of cases were transmitted in retail settings, and, if so, why have Auckland retail businesses not been allowed to open sooner—

💬 SPEAKER: Fewer—fewer than a handful.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Pardon me?

💬 SPEAKER: Fewer than a handful.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Can I start again?

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah, start again. Yes.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Does he still believe that less than a handful of cases were—[Laughter from members]

💬 SPEAKER: Just go. It’s all right; just keep going—keep going.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Does he still believe that less than a handful of cases were transmitted in retail settings, and, if so, why were Auckland retail businesses not allowed to open sooner, avoiding the economic harm that has been done to them?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the first part of the question, that is the advice that we’ve received from health officials. In answer to the second part of the question, the Government has always been aware of accumulation of risk. We have managed that risk. We are now in a position to be able to reduce those restrictions as vaccinations increase.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Why have Auckland businesses had to wait until the Prime Minister visits tomorrow before the Government announces a hundred-dollar voucher scheme for hospitality, and is he aware that almost every tourism and hospitality business in the country is also struggling and also waiting?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: There are many elements to that question that I reject as being in the member’s mind only.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Why can a double-vaccinated hairdresser in Auckland not open but a shopkeeper who isn’t vaccinated can, and does he realise that a business that cannot open because of the Government’s COVID restrictions either has to take on debt or close?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the latter part of the question, there are a number of businesses who have been forced to close throughout the last 20 months, and that is highly regrettable. However, that number of businesses is significantly lower than it would have been had it not been for the level of assistance that has been provided. Many businesses, rather than the two things the member says, have actually managed, through their own hard work and the support of the Government, to keep going. We should celebrate their resilience.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Why can 25 people in Auckland or Hamilton socialise in an outdoor space or visit a shop but an Auckland and Waikato hospitality business cannot host 25 customers seated in an outdoor space, and does he not realise that when a business can’t open because of Government rules, they either have to take on debt or close?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in the answer to the previous supplementary question, I do not accept the last two parts of the member’s question.

💬 SPEAKER: I am just going to give the member the same warning as I gave to Mr Seymour as to the length of his supplementaries. Thank you.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Point of order, Mr Speaker. In my second supplementary, you went to correct me. I just want to make it clear that the “less than a handful of cases” was a quote from the Minister; not mine.

💬 SPEAKER: The only thing I’ll say is that I’m pleased I wasn’t the Minister of Education responsible for his language!

Question No. 7—Social Development and Employment

7. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What recent reports has she seen on unemployment?

As the Deputy Prime Minister has highlighted, last week the household labour force survey was released. It showed the national rate of unemployment to be 3.4 percent, a fall of 0.6 percentage points from the previous quarter. A highlight of the report is the increase in job security felt by New Zealanders, with 45,100 less people saying they are at risk of losing their job in the next 12 months. Alongside this, the increase in the labour force participation rate shows that 71.2 percent of New Zealanders are engaged in the labour market, a 1.1 percentage point increase. This was driven mostly by an increase in the number of women who have found employment. It is clear that the Government’s strong economic response to the COVID-19 pandemic is keeping our economy strong and New Zealanders in work.

💬 Glen Bennett: What reports has she seen on the number of people receiving the job seeker work-ready benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As of the week ending 29 October, 108,471 people were receiving a job seeker work-ready benefit, around 22,000 less than the same time last year. As expected, we saw a slight rise in the number of people accessing a job seeker work-ready benefit at the beginning of the Delta outbreak. But we now have seen six straight weeks where the number of people receiving job seeker work-ready has fallen. There are now only 1,737 additional people receiving job seeker work-ready than at the time our response began. It is very different to the sharp rise we saw during the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, and shows the strength of our labour market. It is clear that the Government’s wage subsidy has helped provide certainty to businesses and protect jobs. While we’re not out of the woods, the signs are very encouraging.

💬 Glen Bennett: What evidence has she seen of Māori and Pacific getting into work?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The household labour force survey shows that, over the last 12 months, Māori unemployment is down 1.9 percentage points to 6.9 percent. This was driven by 29,900 Māori moving into work over the last 12 months. For Pacific peoples, the unemployment rate was down 2.6 percentage points to 5.5 percent. This is reflected in the number of people we’re seeing come out the other end of our employment, education, and training programmes—for example, over 4,000 people through Mana in Mahi, and over 7,920 through Flexi-wage, of which 48 percent are Māori or Pacific. We’re committed to continuing to provide meaningful programmes for Māori and Pacific in order to build on this progress.

Question No. 8—COVID-19 Response

8. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: How many fully vaccinated people have tested positive in managed isolation and quarantine since 23 August 2021 on day 8 or later, and how many people have completed stays in managed isolation and quarantine since 23 August 2021?

I’m advised that four fully vaccinated people have tested positive on day eight or later in managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) since 23 August—24,124 people have been through MIQ during that time. While that number is small, it still signifies the risk that exists in overseas returnees. It also highlights the rationale for introducing a period of home isolation to mitigate the risk of transmission after someone’s seven-day stay.

I’m just going to remind the visitor from Auckland to put her mask back on.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why are over 2,350 people with COVID, or close contacts of people with COVID, allowed to isolate at home in Auckland, while fully vaccinated travellers from overseas without COVID are forced to spend 14 days in MIQ?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: They won’t be forced to spend 14 days in MIQ; they’ll be doing seven days, so those who have been arriving in MIQ this week will in fact only be doing seven days in MIQ, and they will then do three days of isolation at home.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why do fully vaccinated travellers to New Zealand have to wait until quarter one in 2022 for MIQ to not be required for people who enter New Zealand, when the risk is, as he’s just demonstrated, very low already?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don’t think the member can take that inference from the numbers that I’ve just given. One of the things that he needs to factor in is that this is across a relatively small number of people, and, actually, when we do move to self-isolation by default, the level of movement at the New Zealand border—the international border—is likely to be significantly higher than it is at the moment. It’s also important to note that we do not have COVID-19 spreading in the community outside of Auckland, Waikato, and a small part of Northland. When we do allow people to come in and isolate at home anywhere in New Zealand, then that will mean that at that point, there will be COVID-19 out in the New Zealand community, uncontrolled.

💬 Chris Bishop: Does the Government have an analytical framework or set of criteria for when it may allow fully vaccinated travellers to come home to New Zealand and skip MIQ before the end of this year?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: What we’ve indicated is that our priority, at this point, is to move New Zealand on to the traffic light framework, to get that bedded in, and to recognise the fact that that is going to result in a spread of COVID-19 outside of Auckland and outside of the Waikato, and we want to make sure that we are controlling an increase in the number of COVID cases as much as possible. Once we have done that, then our next priority will be the international border, and that will be in the first quarter of next year.

💬 Chris Bishop: What does he say to the 80,000 people who have now signed a petition to end MIQ forthwith, who represent the tens of thousands of New Zealanders keen to travel home without going through the MIQ lottery system?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I acknowledge that in a global pandemic many people have been separated from their families and the people that they care about, that we want to be able to remove the international restrictions as soon as we can, but that we want to do that in a way that is safe, and we want to manage our next phase of our COVID response such that New Zealand doesn’t end up with a large, uncontrolled outbreak of COVID-19 that could have a significant impact on the very loved ones that they want to come and see.

Question No. 9—Economic and Regional Development

9. to the Minister for Economic and Regional Development: What announcements has he made about giving the events sector confidence to continue planning over the summer period while the country transitions to the new COVID-19 Protection Framework?

This morning, I announced a COVID-19 events transition support payment scheme to provide certainty to event organisers to continue to plan their event ahead of finalisation of the public health settings that will apply at the time of their event. The scheme will apply to all public-facing ticketed events that are not underwritten or funded elsewhere with more than 5,000 attendees and require the use of COVID-19 vaccine certificates. The scheme will pay out 90 percent of the direct costs incurred by the organiser in delivering the event and only when there is certainty that the public health settings would explicitly prevent the event taking place on the date or dates of the event.

💬 Naisi Chen: What are the benefits of this scheme?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The fund is based on feedback from the events sector. They told us that they were nearing or had entered the risk window for decisions about whether to proceed with their event or cancel or postpone. This fund will give big summer festivals financial certainty to proceed. Large events are a key driver for economic and regional development, providing jobs and economic activity. But, to be blunt, it’s been a tough year. New Zealanders deserve a good summer and this Government is committed to ensuring large-scale events and festivals can be part of this.

💬 Naisi Chen: Why is the use of vaccination certificates one of the criteria for this scheme?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: As COVID has changed, our approach has changed too. The tool we have now that we didn’t have a year ago is vaccination. As the Prime Minister says, it provides our individual armour from death, hospitalisation, or disease itself. The reason for requiring vaccine certificates is twofold. First, we want to provide an incentive for attendees who might not yet have got their first or second dose to get vaccinated so they can attend an event, and, secondly, it is to provide protection for people once they are at the event so they can be as safe as possible in a new COVID world while enjoying summer.

Question No. 10—Disability Issues

10. to the Minister for Disability Issues: How many of the 13 principles outlined by the Access Alliance will be given effect in the proposed accessibility legislation, and which principles, if any, will not be included?

Can I begin by acknowledging the contribution of the Access Alliance and other disabled people and whānau who have all had a part to play in this work and in improving accessibility throughout Aotearoa. We’ve worked closely with the Access Alliance during the development of our accessibility framework and have incorporated nine of their 13 principles in some way. Incorporating all 13 would take a significant period of time to introduce. We want to start making change now, and our accessibility framework is an important first step to supporting Aotearoa to progressively become more accessible.

💬 Jan Logie: Is it true the Access Alliance worked with the Ministry of Social Development for 2½ years only for the Government to choose a legislative framework they couldn’t support?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have been working with the Access Alliance for an extended period of time. COVID slowed down the work programme with regards to accessibility legislation. There are many facets of what we have announced that the Access Alliance do support. There are some things that they proposed that we could not support. They wanted a single regulatory framework, which we as a Government couldn’t support with regards to what we are putting forward because of the complexity that that would involve. It would mean the potential duplication of rules and legislation. It would mean that, potentially, accessibility legislation would be at odds with existing legislation. It would’ve meant that we would’ve had to look at legislation across multiple areas and potentially try and make changes. It wasn’t feasible, nor was it practical. Where we have landed with regards to an enabling framework is something that we’re comfortable with, but we’re certainly looking forward to all of the submissions that will come forward when the legislation goes to the House mid - next year.

💬 Jan Logie: Did the Government consider the model proposed in the Law Foundation - funded research Making New Zealand Accessible: A Design for Effective Accessibility Legislation, which gave effect to most of the Access Alliance’s 13 principles?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We considered all of the options that were in front of us, as well as the single regulatory framework that the Access Alliance had wanted, which, I think, is also reflected in the report that the member speaks about. There was also an ask for much tighter enforceable standards. Again, it would go back to the issue that I raised earlier about the potential for duplication, legislation being at odds across various sectors. So where we have landed, we are quite comfortable with. However, again, we look forward to the select committee process. That is an opportunity to look at ways in which we can improve the legislation.

💬 Jan Logie: How will systemic change be achieved for the disabled community if there’s no independent monitoring or enforcement mechanism in the proposed framework?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As part of the proposal, we have been very clear that we will have an Accessibility Governance Board that will have some responsibility for the monitoring of progress that we are looking to make. It will also have the potential to have quite an important impact on prospective legislation, once that legislation is in place, as well as us being given the impetus to be able to look at the existing legislation, where it creates barriers or doesn’t allow for the types of accessibility that we would expect through the legislation and what’s outlined in there once that’s in place.

💬 Jan Logie: How will the Accessibility Governance Board hold—and I’ll quote—“the system to account to make New Zealand more accessible and equitable” without any enforcement mechanisms?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There are a range of details that we have said from the time that we announced this that will need to be determined and worked out. The legislation is not yet in front of us; July is when we’re looking to introduce that to the House. Some of the points that the member raised are things that we need to continue to look at and work on, and we are very much committed to doing that alongside disabled people and our disability community and sector.

💬 Jan Logie: Will the Government commit to taking disabled people’s feedback on board before it drafts the legislation to ensure that the bill actually has that power to break down the barriers to their participation in society?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Certainly, but at the same time, that select committee process is going to be very important, and we also have to ensure that anything that we put before the House is practical, it is achievable, and it is something that as a Government we will actually be able to implement and enforce. So that’s certainly our focus.

Question No. 11—Education (School Operations)

11. to the Associate Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to support the mental health and wellbeing of students in primary and secondary schools?

Yesterday, I announced that 141 primary, intermediate, and small secondary schools throughout Aotearoa now have access to counsellors. This is the first time in New Zealand counsellors have ever been centrally-funded in schools for this age group. The primary school allocation is in addition to the additional $31.8 million that was allocated to larger secondary schools from January this year. That equates to 90 full-time teacher equivalent additional counselling staff across the country. Thanks to the $75.8 million worth of investment made by this Labour Government, a further 24,000 young people now have access to counselling support at school.

💬 Marja Lubeck: Why are counsellors in schools needed?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: This Labour Government is committed to barrier-free access to education. Kids come to school to receive a great education. This should be within the reach of every learner—where barriers to education exist, they need to be reduced. It is important to use a range of levers to help each child and young person attain their educational potential. We know that learners who are happy and healthy learn better. That is why, over the last few years, this Government has undertaken a range of work to support the wellbeing of learners in order to ensure our kids get the best start possible.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What other mental health and wellbeing supports are available for schools?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: The Government has provided a $15 million package specifically to help re-engage our Auckland students in their education, which includes an additional $1.5 million funding for counselling services for Auckland schools. The Government is also expanding the Mana Ake mental health and wellbeing programme into five additional regions. For teachers and principals, the Government has made available the workforce wellbeing COVID-19 fund that provides counselling services for the sector. We’re making sure that there are a range of measures in place to support schools through this tumultuous time.

Question No. 12—Prime Minister

12. to the Prime Minister: Does she agree there needs to be a royal commission of inquiry into the Government’s preparation for COVID-19 Delta; if not, why not?

I agree that there has been a need to ensure the Government’s response to COVID-19 has been fit for purpose, which explains the existence of two rapid reviews of the all-of-Government response: the Simpson-Roche review, the Strategic COVID-19 Public Health Advisory Group, the COVID-19 Independent Continuous Review, Improvement and Advice Group, and, of course, there are a number of technical advisory groups we’ve used to inform our response, which includes the core Technical Advisory Group chaired by Dr Ian Town, the Vaccine Technical Advisory Group, the Testing Technical Advisory Group, and the Therapeutics Technical Advisory Group, which are all serving us well. We’ve also had a rapid audit of contact tracing for COVID-19, an ombudsman review, and three reviews from the Office of the Auditor-General. I think this list demonstrates there has been scrutiny and we’ve adapted our response as a result at every stage of this pandemic. Specifically on any form of future review, I don’t disagree with the value in ensuring we learn from this experience. It is a matter of timing, though, and right now we’re better to respond to the pandemic itself than to investigate that response.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: If she’s learnt so much from the reviews that have already been undertaken, then why is Auckland entering its 13th week of lockdown, or was that part of the plan?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m not sure if the member has noticed, but we are in the middle of a global pandemic, and relative to most countries, the response that has jointly been rolled out by New Zealanders has been one of the more successful ones, if your measure, of course, is your hospitalisations, your deaths, and even the impact on the economy, or, overall, the impact of restrictions over a period of going on two years. The reason that we are currently facing restrictions in Auckland is because of the pandemic and because Delta has been particularly more challenging than other variants, and no country has escaped its impacts.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So was it part of her Government’s plan for fewer than 20 percent of the country to be fully vaccinated when Delta made it into the New Zealand community?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member will notice that we currently have rates of vaccination that are higher than some of the countries that started vaccinating many months before us. But we have a plan which is particular to New Zealand. We want to protect New Zealanders from COVID and we want to minimise its impact on our daily lives, which means that we are using a combination of vaccines and public health measures, and we are easing into that framework carefully to, again, ensure that we don’t see our hospital system overrun—which has not, unfortunately, been the case for many other countries.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Would having Government officials and others involved in the COVID-19 response not working on the COVID-19 response but instead taking time to appear before a royal commission and give evidence to a royal commission help or hinder that response? [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Which member was it who interjected then? Which member was it? The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. He knows what the rules are better than anyone else.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is right to draw out that there would be consequence to, at this point in the response, drawing the attention of those who are critical to continuing to respond to the pandemic away to a review process. You can see we have, of course, ensured that we’ve had scrutiny through our response all the way through, but we’ve done it in such a way that we can continue to respond to the pandemic as we also vary our response and learn from every stage, because, frankly, no country in the world had a rule book for COVID-19.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why is it that more than a year since the Simpson-Roche report, she still hasn’t got saliva testing right throughout the country as they recommended?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We are using saliva testing. I’d point out, as well, that in the use of that saliva testing, of course, there are some jurisdictions, some areas, where we’ve created it as an opportunity to be used, and some have chosen to use the nasal swabs instead, but it is available and it is being used. Antigen is increasingly being used in health settings as well, and we anticipate in the future it will be used more often as part of some of our contact tracing and isolation processes for vaccinated individuals, to perhaps reduce down the need to have prolonged periods of time in isolation.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So was it part of her unique New Zealand plan for Māori vaccination rates to fall so far behind the rest of the country, despite multiple warnings all year that the Government needed to do more?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I’ve said many times in this House, it is not fair to simply create a blanket statement about Māori vaccination rates generally. In some age demographics, we have very high rates; unfortunately, in the younger cohorts, where we do have a larger part of the population, we do have higher rates where we have not yet reached our rangatahi, and we, at the moment, are doing everything we can to work alongside Māori health providers and others. Iwi and hapū have been doing an amazing job trying to drive demand, to continue to lift uptake. My recollection is, from the last time I looked, that we were at roughly 74 percent first doses, and I do expect to continue to see that increase; and for 60-plussers, I believe, over 90 percent. We want to replicate those results across the board.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So was it part of her plan, after all these reviews, for hundreds of thousands of fully vaccinated Kiwis to be stranded overseas because of the managed isolation and quarantine lottery of human misery, when there are now thousands of Aucklanders self-isolating at home and even in cars?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! There’s irony in that question, and the member knows it.