Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, including the work to keep the unemployment rate in New Zealand as low as possible. Unemployment for the June 2021 quarter was 4 percent, 0.6 percent lower than the March quarter. Of particular note is the unemployment rate of women, which has fallen from 5.8 percent in September 2020 to 4.3 percent last quarter. But there is still work to do. That’s why we’ve reinstated the Training Incentive Allowance, supporting 16,000 people to retrain, gain higher skills, and transition into new careers. Sole parents, disabled people, and carers are among those most affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. They also face higher costs and barriers to education and training. Alongside the Flexi-wage, He Poutama Rangatahi, and Mana in Mahi, these are initiatives where we ensure that we leave no one behind.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Will she announce a concrete plan on Friday that gives certainty to Aucklanders that the lockdown will end before Christmas, or is she prepared to leave Aucklanders behind?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is something I spoke to extensively yesterday in this House, in a press conference yesterday, and in media yesterday, and the member knows the answer is yes. We will be presenting greater detail around what a framework for protecting New Zealand in a highly vaccinated environment will look like.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why is she making Aucklanders, who have been locked down for 64 days, wait until Friday for a stage-managed pronouncement on whether or not they’ll be locked down for Christmas?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously, I reject some elements of that member’s statement, but I also note that the member has released her version of a plan, which includes both targets but also a date of 1 December. So I think what that’s acknowledging is that there’s, obviously, some work to do to ensure that there is safety for all Aucklanders via vaccination, and maybe that is something that we can actually agree on.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is she saying, then, that she agrees with the National Party that we need to have a date of 1 December by which her Government needs to complete the vaccination programme that they promised to do this year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It would be difficult for me to know exactly what I would be agreeing with when, on 17 August, Dr Shane Reti said that they may need to go to 85, 90, or 95 percent; on 23 August, the Leader of the Opposition said a target of 70 to 75 percent; on 18 September, Chris Bishop said the first target should be 70 to 75 percent; and, actually, all on the same day of the 19th, Shane Reti said 90 to 95, Judith Collins said that they’d give a date by the end of November, and Chris Bishop said 85 to 90. So I’m not sure what I would be agreeing with.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Well, if she’s going to make up numbers like that, as she just did, perhaps she could answer—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Leader of the Opposition knows what she said was out of order, and therefore she will withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Yes, I withdraw and apologise. Thank you.

💬 SPEAKER: Further supplementary?

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Yes. So will she then announce on Friday a milestone by which time all COVID lockdowns will end, or will she continue to quote figures and dates and get things wrong?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: To answer the second part of the question: no.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So at what vaccination rate will lockdown restrictions be lifted under her Government?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously, we’ve already said that not only would we be speaking to the framework but also the triggers that we would be using on Friday. But I do note that the member has done both, which, again, I’m not entirely clear on whether the member believes a highly vaccinated environment is required or is simply an ambition, given she has three targets but also a date. I’m sure New Zealand would appreciate clarity on her opinion.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked for the Prime Minister’s view, not her view of our document.

💬 SPEAKER: I’m not quite sure that was the question. I was convinced that the Prime Minister addressed the question at the beginning; whether the rest of it was helpful, I’m not sure. But we’ll go on to the next supplementary now.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Well, does the Prime Minister believe that a framework will be greeted by Aucklanders with certainty, given that it’s still just a framework that she’s talking about for Friday?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think, obviously, it would be best that we have that engagement after Friday and then the member will be able to ask a question perhaps with some more specificity. But I think what we can all agree with is that in the past, of course, lockdown and restrictions and the tools that we had meant that we were making every decision based on case numbers and the nature of an outbreak, and that has shaped New Zealand’s response to date. The ability to vaccinate and vaccinate broadly does give us more tools that enable us to build a framework to try and keep people safe but in a highly vaccinated environment. So that is what we’ll be looking to share more details around on Friday.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: On Friday, will it be necessary for the Prime Minister to fly down from Auckland a film crew to film her pronouncement or will she find sufficient people in Wellington who can do the job?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m not entirely sure what the member is referring to. If it is the really important event of the Vaxathon, I’d have to say I think most New Zealanders thought that an event that brought about 130,000 people being vaccinated—that that would be something she supports. The way in which the filming of it was undertaken is not something any of these members in this House was engaged with but all of us support initiatives to get people vaccinated.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Did it make a difference to vaccination rates whether the film crew was able to come through as essential workers from Auckland or whether there were people in Wellington who might have done the job?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m not responsible for the staffing of Avalon Studios, but what we are responsible for is ensuring that as many people as possible are vaccinated. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that the Vaxathon was something that was broadly supported in this House.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Now that Auckland is in its third month of lockdown, does she regret spending so much of the COVID fund on things like a $500,000 grant to a book matchmaking website based in North America?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously, decisions that are made around an innovation fund within the Ministry for Culture and Heritage is not something that I am personally determining. What I absolutely stand by is, unlike many other countries, we made a deliberate decision that because COVID-19 affects our artists and our creatives and those who rely on the gathering of people the most we specifically tested that the wage subsidy would be available to them. It has ensured the survival of our creative sector in a very difficult environment and we also, then, established a recovery package. The way that is administered sits with the Ministry for Culture and Heritage.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The Government’s health-led approach to the COVID-19 pandemic and support for the economy has been reflected in the Crown financial accounts released last week. For the year to June 2021, the Crown accounts show the operating balance before gains and losses—the OBEGAL—was at a deficit of $4.6 billion. This was $10.6 billion better than had been forecast in the Budget in May. Net core Crown debt stood at 30 percent of GDP, $11.6 billion less than forecast and well below the average for advanced economies of 90 percent. In addition, the cost of servicing that debt remains very low by historic standards. With the Government’s books in better shape than expected, it does give us more options to respond to the ongoing effects of the pandemic, but we cannot afford to be complacent. We are still facing elevated levels of debt and deficit for some years to come, and we will need to invest our resources carefully in response.

💬 Anna Lorck: What is the impact of the economy on the country’s tax take?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The stronger than expected economic environment saw core Crown tax revenue at $98 billion for the year to June 2021, $12.9 billion higher than the previous year and $6.4 billion higher than forecast in the Budget. This was across all tax types. With the country being in lower alert levels for much of the year, the strong labour market and consumer confidence drove these tax revenue increases. The focus on saving lives and livelihoods that has been the hallmark of the Government’s approach to COVID-19 has meant that the economy has bounced back better than almost anyone predicted. That strength has given us the fiscal headroom to support businesses and households when the Delta outbreak struck.

💬 Anna Lorck: What constraints are there on the economy arising from the pandemic?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: While the economy’s performance has exceeded the expectations of commentators and forecasters, the Delta outbreak shows that the recovery is uneven for some sectors and regions. Globally, the pandemic continues to disrupt supply chains, which is, in turn, affecting the New Zealand economy. It is appropriate that the Government continues to take a balanced approach as we work through the uncertainty, investing heavily to support wellbeing, our transition to a low-carbon economy and to improved productivity, while all the while carefully managing resources with an eye to the long-term sustainability of the economy.

Question No. 3—Health

3. to the Minister of Health: What is his response to Capital and Coast intensive care specialist Dr Paul Young, who has said, “I am afraid that your assertion that the number of staffed ICU beds has increased from 234 to 340 in the past 15 months is false” and that “If you are receiving advice that we have 340 staffed ICU beds you are receiving bad advice”?

My response to Dr Paul Young is a matter of public record. At 12.06 p.m. on 14 October 2021, I wrote “that is not what I said. In addition to 243 beds we call ‘ICU beds’, extra beds can be made available for ICU-level care staffed by surge trained nurses under supervision. DHBs advise they can lift the number to 320 to 340. [The] real issue is vaccination keeps people out of ICU.”

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What does he say to the Australian and New Zealand Intensive Care Society, who reported there are, in fact, only 186 standing ICU beds in New Zealand that are staffed and not the numbers he is claiming?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What I say not so much to that organisation but to that member is to read the full report that was provided by that organisation that said that there are up to 314 beds available for ICU and high-dependency unit (HDU) level care.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Does he understand that no one believes him when he says that new standing ICU beds have been added—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member cannot use that expression in relation to something that a Minister has just said in the House.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he confirm there are only four standing ICU beds at Tai Rāwhiti; and, given its occupancy rate, how many community cases per day will it take for the standing ICU beds to be overwhelmed?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I get a daily report on the available ICU and HDU capacity for all hospitals. The reality is that it varies by a small margin each day, but the latest report I’ve had for Tai Rāwhiti is that there are six ICU and HDU beds available and, like most hospitals, not all are fully utilised at the time that that report of total capacity was given to me.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: When he said lockdowns protect ICU beds, is his failure to build enough ICU beds the reason Auckland is still in level 3 lockdown; and is he then also responsible for the 1,000 postponed elective surgeries per week that he has described in answers to written questions due to the lockdown?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The member is conflating a number of completely different things. The early part of the latest lockdown was a level 4 lockdown, and the member will well know that, typically, what happens is that hospitals then cease most planned care and put those procedures off. In Auckland in particular, because they’ve gone from level 4 and then down to level 3, there has been continued disruption of planned care and, indeed, some other procedures. Most DHBs have resumed planned care and other procedures. The Auckland hospitals have been able to refer some patients to other DHBs to get those procedures done, but the reality about pandemics and lockdowns is that they are disruptive to surgical procedures, and that has happened on this occasion.

Question No. 4—Energy and Resources

4. to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Fakaalofa lahi atu, Mr Speaker. What action is the Government taking to reduce fossil fuel use by large industrial users?

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Recently, I announced the second round of recipients of co-funding from the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry Fund. The fund is a partnership between Government and business to accelerate the decarbonisation of industrial process heat while creating jobs. Process heat makes up around a third of New Zealand’s overall energy use, and over half of processed heat is fossil fuelled, mainly by gas and coal. By working closely with large industrial users to transition away from fossil fuels we’re continuing to decarbonise our economy as part of our transition to a low emissions future.

💬 Tangi Utikere: What will be the impact of this round of industrial decarbonisation funding?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: For New Zealand to achieve its ambitious climate goals we need to tackle the issue of emissions from our large industrial users. In the latest round, the Government is partnering with industry on more than 20 projects that will deliver an annual saving of 142,591 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions, or 2.8 million tonnes over their lifetime. Across both funding rounds, the 39 projects funded will deliver savings of 6.6 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions. This equates to 14 to 18 percent of the gross long-lived emissions reductions required from the Climate Commission’s first carbon budget for 2022 to 2025. This investment is another example of the Government’s commitment to tackling climate change. This is about futureproofing our planet and our economy.

💬 Tangi Utikere: What are some examples of decarbonisation initiatives funded under the partnership?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We’re working with McCain Foods in Timaru to convert their existing coal boilers to biomass fuel, which will reduce their carbon emissions by nearly 34,000 tonnes every year; and Meadow Mushrooms in Canterbury, who are working towards a goal of carbon-zero emissions by 2025. The project at Meadow Mushrooms will replace their diesel boiler. An electrode boiler will be assembled in New Zealand with many domestically-sourced components. This project will halve their carbon emissions.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Minister aware of any reports that spot electricity prices are so high New Zealand Steel today is using diesel generators to run its potlines; and, whether she’s aware of that or not, what does she think that says about the true state of decarbonisation in industrial processes in New Zealand?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Yes, I am aware of reports of unusually high spot prices in our wholesale electricity market. What I think that says about what the future needs to be is that it needs to be decarbonised, because, of course, those high prices have been driven by increased coal use and increased gas use over this period of time.

Question No. 5—Health (Māori Health)

5. to the Associate Minister of Health (Māori Health): E whakapono ana ia he rahi rawa ngā mahi a te kāwanatanga hei akiaki i te werohanga o te iwi Māori ki te kano ārai mate, inā hoki ki ngā rohe pēnei i Te Tairāwhiti me Te Tai Tokerau?

[Does he believe the Government is doing enough to lift Māori vaccination rates, particularly in rural areas including Tairāwhiti and Te Tai Tokerau?]

Tēnā koe, Mr Speaker. Ki te pātai—direct to the member’s question, the answer is yes, and in particular I share with the member some feedback while I was on the road, recently, from Geoff Milner, the chief executive of the Ngāti Hine Health Trust, the largest Māori health provider providing the vaccine in Northland. He says, “that he has never had such great support from central government, DHBs, GPs, Hauora, and pharmacy for our whānau on the ground.” I also quote Mr Reweti Ropiha, chief executive of Turanga Health, who said, “While we’ve had mobile services in Tairāwhiti for rural outreach for some time, following the Minister’s visit to Tairāwhiti, where he listened to our needs and followed up with support, we will now be able to reach more deeply into our rural communities.”

💬 Dr Elizabeth Kerekere: Kia ora. He aha ngā kaupapa kua whakamaheretia motuhaketia mā te Māori kei te taiwhenua, ā, ka pēhea tā ngā kaupapa nei akiaki i ngā rōpū Māori ki te ārahi i te whakautu ki te mate nei?

[What outreach is planned specifically for rural Māori, and how will this empower Māori organisations to lead the response?]

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: Tēnā koe. Ki te pātai a te mema, he maha ngā rautaki me ngā mahere kua whakaritehia nei e mātou o te Kāwanatanga. Tuatahi ko te āhuatanga ki ngā pūtea. Tata ki te kotahi rau miriona tāra ka tukuna atu mō tēnei kaupapa. Tuarua ka wātea nei e mātou i ētahi o ngā huarahi ka āhei ngā ratonga hauora Māori ki te whakatutuki i ngā mahi tuku i te kano ārai mate. Anā, tuatoru ko te whakapakari ake i ngā ratonga hauora Māori kia āhei rātou te tuku i tēnei rongoā ki te Iwi Māori.

[To the member’s question, there are many strategies and plans that we, the Government, have prepared. Firstly, the aspects related to finance. Nearly $100 million has been released for this initiative. Secondly, we have made several avenues available to Māori health services to successfully administer the vaccine. And thirdly, to increase the capability of the Māori health services so that they are able to deliver this medication to the Māori people.]

💬 Dr Elizabeth Kerekere: Ka tautokona e te Kāwanatanga tētahi rautaki e arahina ana e te Māori ki te whakautu i te horokukūtanga ki te kano ārai mate pēnei i tā Te Rōpū Whakakaupapa Urutā i marohi ai?

[Will the Government support a Māori-led approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy as recommended by Te Rōpū Whakakaupapa Urutā?]

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: Āe. I te tīmatanga o te whakaritenga o te mahere, i hui tahi mātou me ngā tohunga o Te Ao Māori mō tēnei take, ko ētahi kei runga i te rōpū kua kōrero mai nā te mema. Nō reira kua whakarongo mātou ki wā rātou kōrero, kua hui anō mātou ki ngā ratonga hauora Māori kia whakarongo ki ngā nawe me ngā kōrero kei runga i te papa. Nā konā mātou i whakarite ai i tō tātou mahere kia tuku ai i te kano ārai mate.

[Yes. At the beginning of the development of the plan, we met with the experts of the Māori community regarding this issue—some of them are on the group that the member spoke of. So we have listened to their feedback. We’ve also met with Māori health service providers to listen to their objections and the points made on the floor. That is why we developed our plan to deliver the vaccine.]

💬 Teanau Tuiono: E taea ana e te Kāwanatanga te oati kei te whai rātou i te ara kia iti rawa ngā pānga māuiuitanga tae rā anō ki te wā e wātea ana te kano ārai mate, otirā kia tutuki rā anō te āraitanga tiketike o te tamariki Māori?

[Can the Government ensure that they are following the right paths to keep cases as low as possible until vaccinations are available for children and high coverage is achieved for tamariki Māori?]

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: I tēnei wā tonu kia tirohia e tātou katoa ki te āhuatanga ki wā tātou tamariki mokopuna, arā, ki ngā rangatahi. I tēnei wā tonu, kua tīmata ai tētahi mahere mā ngā rangatahi anō tērā kōrero e tukuna atu ki wā tātau rangatahi kia whakaratarata mai wā tātau rangatahi ki tēnei kano ārai mate. Engari, me kaua tātou e tukuna atu i ngā hēki katoa ki te pākete kotahi. Nō reira he maha ngā mahere, heoi anō ko tāku e mea atu ana koia rā tētahi. Mehemea e hiahia ana te mema i ētahi atu, a tēnā, horekau he raru ki ahau nei kia tukuna atu i ētahi atu mahere ki a ia.

[At this time, let us look at our children and youth. At this time, we have begun some initiatives for our youth. We have begun campaigning to our youth to encourage our youth to be vaccinated. But we cannot put all of our eggs in one basket. So there are many initiatives; I am merely saying that that is one. However, if the member would like, of course, it would be no problem for me to supply these initiatives to him.]

💬 Teanau Tuiono: He aha ngā kōrero ki te whānau o Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa? He aha te ara e whai ana rātou kia hīkina ngā nama ki roto i ērā whānau mō te whiwhi i te kano ārai mate?

[What are the details surrounding our Pasifika whānau and what are the measures they are taking to increase vaccination numbers within those families?]

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: He pātai pai tēnā. Kua whakapau werawera te Minita, a Minita Sio ki te tautoko ake i ngā tū whāinga o ngā hāhi, he mōhio nō tātou katoa i te kaha o ngā hāhi ki te whātoro atu ki ngā iwi moutere. Kua kōrero atu mātou katoa ki ngā mea pou kei roto i te hapori mō te hunga nō Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa kua whakaritehia anō e mātou i ētahi o ngā ratonga hauora mō te hunga nō ngā moutere ki te tuku i tēnei kano ārai mate. Engari me kaua tātou e pōhēhē kua oti noa ngā mahi. He nui tonu ngā mahi kei mua i a tātou, Māori mā, Ngāi Pasifika mā, ki te hiki i ngā nama, ngā tatauranga ka kitea nei e tātou.

[That is a good question. Minister Sio has been working hard to support the different goals of the church, because as we are aware, the church has significant influence within the Pasifika community. We have had discussions with the pillars within the community with respect to those from the Pacific community and have established health systems options for Pasifika to be vaccinated. But we should not be fooled that our job finishes here. There is still plenty of work to be done for Māori and for Pasifika to lift the numbers and statistics that we currently see.]

Question No. 6—Education

6. to the Minister of Education: What decisions has the Government made about onsite learning at schools in level 3 regions?

Today, I announced that on-site learning at schools in level 3 regions will start from next Tuesday for years 11 to 13 students, which will allow them to prepare for end of year exams and complete NCEA assessments. The issue of school reopening is a complex one and it does require difficult trade-offs between improving education and increasing potential health risks for children and young people, many of whom cannot yet be vaccinated. Learners in this particular age group though, the senior secondary school age group, are able to be vaccinated and they’ll be required to wear masks, and the staff and volunteers working on-site will need a negative COVID-19 test before they’re able to attend. Further consideration is being given to years 1 to 10 at Cabinet next Tuesday.

💬 Angela Roberts: What refinements, if any, have been made to public health requirements to support the return of years 11 to 13 students?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: A number of further refinements have been made as we continue to refine the public health measures for schools and early learning services. The following additional measures will be in place: face coverings will be required at school and on school transport for everyone over the age of 12; time outdoors for students and staff will be maximised and the rooms will be aired during breaks; exercise and singing will only take place outdoors; group meetings indoors, including assemblies and staff meetings, will be avoided; and, of course, staff need to return a negative test before they return to work on site. Staff who are not fully vaccinated will need to be tested weekly and it will be required for staff to be fully vaccinated by 1 January 2022. I’d also add that children and young people at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19 should stay home unless they’re fully vaccinated; face coverings are mandatory for the staff and learners in years 9 to 13; and records must be kept for contact tracing purposes.

💬 Angela Roberts: What is the Government doing to ensure students in alert level 3 areas get a fair chance at NCEA?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: While classroom teaching and learning have been disrupted by COVID-19, I know that students have been continuing to work hard while they’re learning from home. They deserve to have the opportunity to demonstrate what they’ve learnt during that time. NCEA and scholarship exams will be proceeding, but physical distancing will be maximised within the space that’s available with a minimum of 1.5 metres between desks. In Auckland, Waikato, and Northland, where they’ve experienced further disruption in term 4 of this year, when students are normally preparing for exams, the New Zealand Qualifications Authority has confirmed that these students will be eligible for an unexpected event grade that will help to recognise the work that they have done. While students will be expected to attend exams where possible, the long-established unexpected event grade process means that they will receive the better of either their exam grade or the unexpected event grade.

Question No. 7—Finance

7. to the Minister of Finance: Will he adopt any of the measures proposed today by National in our Back in Business plan to quickly help the economy?

I thank the member for the opportunity to comment on his proposals. I am by nature an optimistic and positive person, and so, of course, I will look at the specific proposals he has put forward. But, sadly, his overall plan fails a basic economic equation. He thinks that it is possible to reduce revenue, increase spending, and slash debt levels all at the same time. Simply put, the plan does not add up. It would require an austerity approach that would see the slashing of critical public services. It would undermine all the hard work that New Zealanders have done in fighting COVID-19, in return for an untargeted tax cut of $4 a week. Beyond that, the plan has some basic facts wrong, including writing women out of employment statistics completely by only giving the unemployment number for men, and giving the wrong unemployment number for Māori unemployment. COVID-19 has been and is tough going for many businesses and people within the community and the Government will continue to support them and look for practical and achievable ways of enhancing this, including through the enhanced business support package we will release on Friday.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Will he take up National’s plan to reduce the corporate tax rate for small businesses to 17.5 percent to reward them for sticking it through these tough times and to enable them to retain more cash?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, to begin with, obviously there’s one issue the member might want to think about with that particular element of his plan, which is obviously that if businesses are going to be paying corporate tax, they’re going to be making a profit and, therefore, he may be missing quite a few of the businesses that he actually thinks he wants to target. Secondly, it’s a bit hard to deal with individual parts of the plan when, for example, in order to reach the levels of debt that are proposed in the plan, $80 billion would have to come off the Government’s Budget over the forecast period. That would require significant cuts to core public services.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Will he extend the loss carry-back scheme for the next two years so that the businesses that are currently struggling through 64 days of lockdown can keep more of their cash through this difficult period?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member is aware, the loss carry-back scheme was brought in by the Government last year and it was not continued with because the uptake of it was significantly lower than expected.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Will he allow businesses to instantly write off up to $150,000 on new plant and equipment to encourage investment and to ensure New Zealand lifts its productivity?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We continue to look for ways to support businesses to invest particularly in the technology that will support them to be more productive. But taking any individual part of the member’s plan cannot get away from the fact that it simply does not add up.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Will he commit to increasing the wage subsidy to cover at least the minimum wage now that businesses have been trapped in a lockdown for 64 days?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This proposal from the National Party highlights the problem with the overall plan. On one hand, we have Mr Woodhouse standing up in the House saying that we must cut back on expenditure, and, on the other hand, we have Mr Bayly saying “No, spend more. Spend billions of dollars more.” And then Mr Woodhouse pipes up again and says “You know what? We need net debt to go down to 25 percent.” They haven’t got it right. It’s inconsistent. It doesn’t add up. It’s not a plan. And, sadly, it’s a reminder of the 2020 election. Bring back Paul Goldsmith!

Question No. 8—COVID-19 Response

8. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Does he stand by the Prime Minister’s statement in relation to community cases of COVID-19 and Kiwis returning to New Zealand, “So it’s just about looking at those two different groups and making sure we’re consistent between the two”; if so, how many community cases are currently home isolating?

Yes, I do stand by the Prime Minister’s full statement, including the following aspects which have been missed by the member. “We are in a transition period … we’re piloting and we’re doing that both for positive community cases where it is appropriate, and we’re looking to do that for travellers where it is appropriate, and we’re also looking at things like shortened managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ).” In response to the second part of the member’s question, I’ve been advised by the Ministry of Health that, as at 9 a.m. this morning, there are currently 86 cases isolating at home following an assessment undertaken as to whether or not that person would be best placed in managed isolation or to be continued to be cared for in their home.

💬 David Seymour: If there are 86 people with a positive test for COVID currently able to isolate at home, why can’t this Government let tens of thousands of Kiwis trapped overseas have a system where they can home-isolate now?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Well, many of those tens of thousands of Kiwis won’t be just travelling into Auckland, they’d be wanting to travel to other parts of New Zealand as well, which at the moment we’re not allowing home isolation in for COVID-positive cases, because there aren’t any COVID-positive cases in those communities. But, as the Prime Minister has indicated, we are in a transition period. The border settings will be changing, and that will include looking at the duration of MIQ and it will see greater use of home isolation.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Minister know what conditions must be met in order that people coming to New Zealand can skip MIQ—if they’re able to get it—and isolate at home; and if he does know, can he just tell people now what those conditions are?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: We continue to work through changes at the border. Specific decisions around the potential reduction in MIQ requirement and a potential increase in isolation at home have not yet been taken. We are currently allowing isolation at home for up to 150 business travellers. That process is under way. We will gain valuable lessons from that about how to make sure that process is as smooth as possible and that we lower the risks of that approach as much as possible. But, as I’ve indicated, and as the Prime Minister has indicated, I think we will see a greater proportion of people coming into the country isolating at home. One of the things that we do have to recognise, though, is at the moment there is a difference between Auckland and the rest of the country. It won’t stay that way for ever, but that is the situation at the moment.

💬 David Seymour: Can the Minister please just tell the House what has to happen so that people trapped overseas can isolate at home the way he just admitted 86 people with COVID are doing in Auckland right now?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Well, I can give it a go but I’m not sure I’ll manage the same degree of theatrics as the member. As I’ve indicated, the Government is looking at expanding home isolation when it is safe to do so, including considering shortened MIQ stays—and potentially a mixture of both of them. Vaccination will play a role. One of the things that we have already announced is a requirement for all those coming in to New Zealand who are not New Zealand citizens to be fully vaccinated from 1 November. That was important to signal that early, because that will certainly be a requirement for home isolation for people coming into the country. We wanted to give people plenty of notice so that they can be ready for that. Things will be changing at the border as a result of the overall change in the risk profile that we’re seeing across the country.

Question No. 9—Immigration

9. to the Minister of Immigration: What recent announcements has the Government made about providing certainty to working holiday and seasonal visa holders and employers for summer?

Fakaalofa lahi atu, Mr Speaker. The Government has recently announced we will extend working holiday visas and supplementary seasonal employment (SSE) work visa for six months to provide more certainty to employers and visa holders over the coming summer period. This offers the likes of the hort and vit sector the certainty they’ve been asking for going into this summer’s harvest season. This will also allow other employers, across a range of industries, to make use of the onshore workers while our border restrictions are in place.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: Who will benefit from this announcement?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: More than 8,500 people on working holiday visas and SSE work visas that are due to expire between late December of this year and late June of next year will benefit from the six-month extension. They will also continue to have open work rights, allowing them to work in any sector, to help meet labour market demands where they exist. Also, their employers will benefit from this, and also anyone working in that sector downstream—the likes of other workers and customers—as well.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: What other measures has the Government announced to support seasonal workers and their employers with the upcoming summer harvest season?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: The Government stands ready to support our primary sector’s labour needs over the harvest season. I’ve continued to meet with the horticulture and viticulture sector leadership on a fortnightly basis throughout the pandemic, and we have made progress on key measures to support their industries through COVID so far. We have created exceptions to our closed border for Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) workers, allowing the hort and viticulture sectors with 2,012 workers entering for the last summer harvest season—and increased the duration of essential skills visas and streamlined the application progress to provide more certainty to employers and visa holders.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Would including working holiday visa, RSE, and SSE visa holders, who have stuck with us through the pandemic, in the one-off residency visa provide certainty and contribute to ending exploitation?

💬 Hon KRIS FAAFOI: The visa holders that the member mentions were only ever going to be here for short stays, and the Government has prioritised skilled, scarce, and settled visa holders for the one-off residency. But I’d also note to the member the impact that opening the resident visa up to the likes of RSE workers from the Pacific might have on their communities back in the Pacific if they were not to go home.

Question No. 10—COVID-19 Response

10. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: How many fully vaccinated people, if any, have tested positive for COVID-19 in managed isolation and quarantine since 23 August 2021, and on what days in managed isolation and quarantine did they test positive?

I’m advised that 19 fully vaccinated people have tested positive for COVID-19 who arrived from overseas into managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) between 24 August and 12 October, which is the latest date of data that I’ve got available for vaccination status. Three of these individuals tested positive on day zero, 10 on day three, four on day six, one on day eight, and one on day nine. For the sake of completeness, in addition to that, approximately 180 individuals have entered MIQ from the community and subsequently returned a positive test whilst in MIQ since 23 August.

💬 Chris Bishop: With just two people who are fully vaccinated testing positive for COVID-19 in MIQ at day eight or beyond out of the over 6,000, I think, people who have been through MIQ since 23 August, does that not indicate that shorter MIQ periods are now appropriate for fully vaccinated travellers?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: It does indicate that the Government should be considering that, and that is exactly what we are doing.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is it correct that the managed isolation and quarantine system wanted to collect vaccination status data earlier than 23 August but the Ministry of Health did not agree?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: That issue has certainly not been raised with me up until now.

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, why did the Government only start collecting the vaccination status of people in MIQ from 23 August onwards, when it’s pretty clear from what the Minister has just said that the data that we’ve collected since that date has been extremely useful in framing up policy parameters?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I think there are probably a variety of reasons. We made the decision to start collecting data when we got to the point where we wanted to assess what difference vaccination was making on the rate of positive cases that we were having coming into the country, and that included introducing the additional testing requirement. So we introduced the additional testing requirement so that we could do exactly what the member has just asked us to do, which is chart out exactly where in that sort of 14-day cycle we were picking up the majority of cases, because one of the issues is at day zero, at day three, and then at day 12, it’s quite a big gap between the day three and the day 12, and so we wanted to see of those day 12s, could some of those be picked up earlier so that we can actually make those kind of informed decisions, both about the role vaccination might play, but also about the role a shortened MIQ might play in our future border settings.

💬 Chris Bishop: Will fully vaccinated travellers with negative pre-departure tests be able to skip MIQ before Christmas this year?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: We haven’t made decisions on that at this point.

Question No. 11—Health

11. to the Associate Minister of Health: Does she stand by her statement, “We must ensure maternity services and care better meet the needs of women and whānau, and achieve equitable outcomes for women, pēpi and whānau”?

Yes. I can assure you that safe, equitable, and sustainable maternity services are a priority for this Government, and I view this work as a key part of the health portfolio. A wide body of evidence tells us that the first thousand days from conception are particularly crucial for the health, development, and wellbeing of a child. Healthy pregnancy is an action in the Government’s programme of action that supports the Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. In July 2020, the Government announced funding that brought the total new investment in maternity services to $242 million over four years. This includes the following programmes of work: a $180 million maternity package comprised of $85 million for additional modules under the primary maternity services notice; $60 million allocated to support community maternity initiatives arising from any accepted recommendations of the health and disability system review; $35 million for the maternity action plan; $57 million over four years for cost and volume pressures in the notice; and $5.4 million to cover extra costs incurred by midwives related to COVID-19, including a $2,500 payment for lead maternity carers, midwives, and funding towards locum arrangements for COVID-19 - related leave. A further $8.056 million was also approved in the Budget for the cost and volume pressures in the notice, including $5 million for the Lead Maternity Care business contribution payment.

Brooke van Velden: Does she believe it is important that women who give birth have the support they need from their partner, family, and chosen support person?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Yes, when it is safe.

Brooke van Velden: Does she believe that restricting the ability for women who have given birth in hospitals at alert level 4 to have support persons with them ensures maternity care meets the needs of women and their whānau?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Thank you for that question. I think it’s a very important question and one which we need to work through carefully. A year ago, before I became an MP, I was a doctor in a tertiary hospital, an infectious diseases specialist having to make the decisions around granting exemptions to hospital visitor policies. I think the systems we have in place have to ensure that the women using the maternity unit can safely give birth with minimised threat of COVID-19, but also where an assessment is done on the specific circumstances, there are possibilities created where it is safe for people to be with their family at that time.

Brooke van Velden: Is she concerned about reports that women are choosing to leave hospital early, against medical advice, because their support person must leave the hospital within an hour of them giving birth?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Those reports have not been raised with me but, as I said earlier, I would hope that an assessment of safety is made in every individual case and where safe and possible within the resources available, an enabling approach is taken to having family present.

Brooke van Velden: Has she advocated for allowances to be made for pregnant women or their partners to be provided emergency managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) spaces to return to New Zealand, and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: I frequently advocate on behalf of women in my role as a Cabinet Minister. In these situations I take into account women’s health needs to have support during the important time of giving birth, but, also, that the conditions in which women give birth have to be safe, and that is a function of our MIQ system.

Brooke van Velden: Does she think it is acceptable that pregnant New Zealand women are being forced to take the Government to court to get the maternity care and support that they need?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: I am not aware of a proceeding for maternity care that is before the court. If the member is referring to a proceeding relating to the MIQ system, then that is a different matter that is before the courts at the moment.

Question No. 12—Housing (Māori Housing)

12. to the Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing): What recent announcements has he made about supporting Māori housing?

Tēnā koe, Mr Speaker. On 28 September 2021, we launched MAIHI Ka Ora—The National Māori Housing Strategy, a strategy I am proud to be a part of. I say “part of” because this is a strategy that has come about through a true partnership with Māori: a document that articulates Māori aspirations, the role of the Crown, and the outcomes we will work together to achieve. Also, in Gisborne last week, together with my colleagues the Minister of Housing and the Minister for Māori Development, we launched Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga fund, which is a combination of investment funds from Budget 2021, and this investment is a total of $730 million for housing supply and infrastructure for Māori whānau.

Tāmati Coffey: How will the national Māori strategy and Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga fund strengthen housing aspirations for Māori?

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: This Government is committed to the vision that all whānau have safe, healthy, affordable homes with secure tenure, across the Māori housing continuum. Our National Māori Housing Strategy was described by Māori architectural designer and writer Jade Kake as a “game changer”. The purpose of the strategy is to provide strategic direction to current and future policy process and investment decisions that impact Māori housing. One of the priorities identified in the strategy is the need to grow and invest in Māori housing supply. Earlier in the year, we secured the largest investment Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga ever made towards Māori housing. Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga will include immediate housing supply and repairs but, more importantly, it will deliver support for Māori-led regional groups to scale up their housing developments over the next five to 10 years. In the development of the strategy, iwi and Māori have articulated clearly that we need to commit towards Māori-led local solutions. Whai Kāinga helps create that space to allow Māori housing solutions to thrive and, together, the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development and Te Puni Kōkiri will move at pace to invest in an existing pipeline of Māori-led developments.

Tāmati Coffey: How can Māori and iwi groups access Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga investment?

💬 Hon PEENI HENARE: That’s a very good question. Today, the project pathway of the Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga fund has gone live and is now open, and it can be found on the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development website. The immediate focus is investments through the project pathway, with agencies working with iwi stakeholders to design a new programme approach to deliver Māori housing. Whānau, hapū, iwi, and Māori organisations with housing aspirations can now apply for Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga investment housing supply, repairs, papa kāinga, and capability. Whai Kāinga, Whai Oranga has two pathways for allocating investment: the project pathway, which will be open today and is nationwide; the programme pathway will open early next year, and this pathway focuses on delivery through regional partners. The initial focus is on regions such as the Tai Tokerau, Tai Rāwhiti, Heretaunga, Taranaki, and the central North Island, including Bay of Plenty and the Rotorua.