Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. In particular, I stand by this Government’s continued commitment to supporting people into meaningful and sustainable work as part of our recovery. Today, we announced that over 800 job seekers will be supported on pathways into employment, education, and training through funding into the Māori Trades and Training Fund and He Poutama Rangatahi projects. We’re already seeing the positive signs of this Government recovery plan, with unemployment falling to 4 percent. There are now 63,000 more people in jobs since September 2020, and another 31,000 entered paid work off the benefit in the June quarter. This Government continues to back our recovery.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why did it take until 29 January this year for New Zealand to raise its first order of Pfizer vaccines?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Sorry, would the member mind repeating the question?

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Oh, I would be happy to—thank you. Why did it take until 29 January this year for New Zealand to raise its first order of Pfizer vaccines?

💬 SPEAKER: To raise its order?

💬 Hon Judith Collins: It’s a term meaning to actually order.

💬 SPEAKER: Right, OK. Sorry. [Interruption] Sorry, it’s not one that I’d heard before—that’s fine.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. Forgive me, Mr Speaker, I’m just not entirely clear on the member—is she asking the question over whether or not we increased our order in January, when we had a completed contract? I’m just not clear on the content of the member’s question. What the member will be aware of—and if I am given questions on notice, it enables me to give full time lines—is when we began our programme of ordering vaccines, we did take a portfolio approach. That was because there were a number of different vaccines in the market. Some—the RNA vaccines, for instance—were less well-known to the wider public health community. They were newer technological developments, and there were others that were more traditional. We took the option of ordering within each of those different portfolios to give us good coverage. As we progressed in some of those discussions, it was clear to us that there were some that were completing clinical trials earlier than others and some that had better data than others. So we made the decision ultimately to, in the end, go with a singular vaccine, because that gave us both logistical improvements, great efficacy across the board, and just the consistency for our population.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why did it take until 29 January this year for New Zealand to order its first Pfizer vaccines when Pfizer is the only vaccine approved in New Zealand?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Oh, the member—if I may just go through the process again, we made orders before there would be approvals, and that was the case for every single vaccine that we’ve had. You make the orders because the approval process requires you to get manufacturing data. You wouldn’t get approval for a vaccine that you hadn’t, in fact, ordered and had the intention of purchasing, and so that’s just merely a sequencing issue. Again, I’m happy to go through the full process of ordering a pharmaceutical product in New Zealand, if the member would be so inclined. But, again, I encourage the member—questions like this, if you pop them on notice, I can bring down the time line for every single decision.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Can the Prime Minister confirm that New Zealand purchased 1.5 million doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine last year and that there is a technical process of issuing a purchase order for each delivery where the purchase order is issued within days of the expected date of that delivery?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, I can. This is where, again, I just highlight for the member there is a process here where we enter into negotiations and contracts with companies to deliver for across our population and then go through a Medsafe process, and then we’ve got the deliveries themselves. As the member knows, we get about a four-week notice before they’ve come in and, as the member has said, there are some other technical elements that we go through. I think the member might be alluding to something that’s just factually incorrect here. Again, if the member puts things on notice, I can come down and happily correct her. If the member is suggesting that we didn’t actually have a contract with Pfizer to deliver for our population, she is wrong.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is the Prime Minister saying that the Hon Chris Hipkins gave an incorrect answer to Chris Bishop when he advised him that the first order was made on 29 January this year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No. In fact, the member himself actually just reflected and interpreted what Mr Bishop has misinterpreted.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Has New Zealand ordered any booster shots yet?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Keeping in mind that we have more than enough vaccine already for our entire population and beyond—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am going to warn the Leader of the Opposition that she will not chip me when I call her to order. [Interruption] Well, sorry, there was a—well, Nick Smith’s not here now, so I don’t have that problem. But there was an indication in the—referring to the Prime Minister in a way which polite people don’t, which I thought came from the Leader of the Opposition. If it came from another member, I would like that member to indicate who it was.

💬 Hon David Bennett: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The MP who has indicated it was him is a man. I am a woman. I am right in front of you. If you can’t tell whether it’s me or not, please do not name me like that.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I apologise to the member. I did notice her lips moving.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: By what date will everyone in New Zealand who wants to be be able to be vaccinated?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The same indication and timetable we’ve said all the way through. Our goal is by the end of this year for everyone who wants a vaccine to have access to be vaccinated.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: And why were more than 70 unvaccinated port workers allowed to board a ship, despite her promising more than four months ago that unvaccinated port workers would be removed from the front line?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We traversed this in great detail yesterday. Of course, they have been able to access a vaccine since the very beginning of our roll-out. We prioritised port workers, so that was right at the start. We wanted them to be in that queue. One of the issues that was raised with us by port companies was that if we had critical port workers who did refuse or did not take up that initial offer, if we were to mandate it and have job loss, we may see a complete stop in some of our supply chain, which was already under a lot of pressure. We took the decision to mandate, but on a time line that, working alongside ports, they believed that they could work around if they did have critical workers drop out. I would highlight, in fairness to the ports, that, actually, of those directly employed by the ports, we’ve had reasonable uptake. It is often those who are contracted by the ports to come in where we have had lower uptake.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by the statement that “This Government will foster a more open and democratic society. It will strengthen transparency around official information”?

Yes. I stand by our actions to improve openness and transparency. In fact, the most recent Transparency International 2020 Corruption Perceptions Index ranks New Zealand first equal, again, which is to be celebrated. We’ve taken significant steps to increase transparency since coming into office. This includes the proactive release of Cabinet papers within 30 days of a decision, and the proactive release of ministerial diaries on a monthly basis, an innovation of this Government. We also supported the changes made this term to increase ministerial accountability to the House, including Ministers now—as we know—answering questions from members during ministerial statements, Estimates, and annual review debates. So, yes, I stand by that statement.

💬 David Seymour: Why then were documents relating to the Strategic COVID-19 Public Health Advisory Group released to select journalists privately yesterday, prior to the Government’s scheduled forum on Thursday?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: My understanding is that they are now all publicly available. There is a press release of the advice, and it’s available to anyone who would choose to access it. The reason we did it in advance of the Government giving a response to the advice is actually because we wanted people to have time to digest the advice themselves. It also gives the chance for people to see what we had to consider, and because that is a forum where questions will be able to be asked, it gives people a chance to consider the issues that they may wish to canvass with the group that provided the advice. I do find it interesting that the member is criticising us for releasing the information that he wanted to see just yesterday. We’ve done that, but apparently now that is still not quite—

💬 David Seymour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It was a very clear question: why did she choose to selectively and privately release it to some journalists? The Prime Minister had answered the question and carried on for some time after that, and I just ask that she be asked to follow the same rules as we are when asking questions.

💬 SPEAKER: That is probably fair, but—and I will call the member in a second—I think it’s also fair that I do get complaints every now and again about Ministers not being as fulsome as Opposition members want. Where the response is trying to get the point of balance, it’s about right, and I think the tradition from this Chair has been to be more flexible with leaders of parties, which the member himself has benefited from on occasions.

💬 David Seymour: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will any other information relating to the reports of the Strategic COVID-19 Public Health Advisory Committee be released publicly, and, if so, will it be released publicly at once to everyone or just drip fed privately to some journalists?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I believe the member is referring to the concept commonly known as an embargo, and that is not uncommon to provide information under embargo to allow interviewers and journalists to prepare for interviews. To the primary part of the member’s question, though, we’ve released the totality of the advice that we received from Professor David Skegg and the group that we convened, but what I would also add is that that is not the only advice that, of course, we as a Cabinet take into consideration. We’ve looked at, for instance, the modelling released by Te Pūnaha Matatini and Shaun Hendy, we’ve considered the advice that we received from departments, including the likes of Treasury, we do have the groups led by Rob Fyfe and Brian Roche—and we also, of course, are keenly interested in their views—and, finally, I would also say that the advice of international organisations such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are things that Professor Skegg himself has used to inform his work, and we look at that data directly as well. We’ve also been very keenly watching the data out of the UK.

💬 David Seymour: Were any of the recommendations generated by the group chaired by Sir David Skegg subject to the $252,945 worth of focus grouping and opinion polling undertaken by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) on the Government’s COVID response, and, if not, will she rule out focus grouping the recommendations she’s just released?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: To answer the first part of the member’s question: no, it has not. In response to the second part of the question: the things that the DPMC have made the decision to ask the public about have related in large part to vaccination, and I do think it’s important for us to understand why people choose not to be vaccinated. If the member is suggesting that we should not be interested in that and we should not be interested in issues of disinformation and how best to counter that, he can hold that view, but I would strongly disagree with him.

💬 David Seymour: What new actions, if any—tangible actions—to be implemented in the next month will the Government take based on the information released today?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We’ll be sharing a response tomorrow.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

The Government’s efforts to secure the recovery are being reflected in the jobs market. For the fifth month in a row, the SEEK New Zealand Employment Report shows a record-breaking number of jobs advertised, with job ads increasing by 2 percent in July from the previous month. For the year, job ads rose 88 percent while job ad numbers are now 27 percent above pre-COVID highs. Unemployment has fallen to 4 percent, reflecting the stronger than expected economic activity and an economy operating above pre-COVID levels.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What reports has he seen on the global context of the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The OECD’s latest composite leading indicators show signs of a moderating pace of growth at above-trend levels in the OECD area. The latest indicators point to signs of a moderating pace of growth in the US, Japan, and Canada. Similar indications have emerged in the UK and in the euro area as a whole, including in Germany and Italy. In France, there are also signs of a moderating pace of growth with its indicators still below trend. All of this indicates that the New Zealand economy operates in a very uncertain and volatile global context and in one in which it’s important that we remain nimble and agile.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What reports has he seen on the impact of the Government’s housing package on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Today, the QV House Price Index was released and it shows that house prices are now becoming more sustainable, with quarterly price growth slowing for the third successive month. The average value increased 4.3 percent in the three months to the end of July, down from 6.6 percent growth in the previous month. Three-monthly value growth has more than halved since April. All of the 16 major urban centres that Quotable Value (QV) monitors have shown a reduction in quarterly growth compared to the previous period. As QV said today, “the market is clearly cooling now as a result of Government and Reserve Bank policy initiatives aimed at dampening the enthusiasm of investors.”

Question No. 4—Health

4. to the Minister of Health: Which of the new health indicators he announced last week directly measures waiting times for cancer management, if any, and how many people with a primary diagnosis of cancer have currently been waiting more than four months for management?

To the first part of the question, the purpose of the health system indicators is to measure how the health system is operating as a whole. Every indicator relates to system-wide decision-making, except for the one relating to mental health treatment for young people because there is a particular critical need in this area right now. The member’s question doesn’t distinguish between targets, which encourage perverse outcomes that serve the needs of health providers rather than patients or the population they are part of, and the health indicators framework, which deals with the system-wide performance. Just to explain that: we all want fewer Kiwi kids being admitted to hospital for conditions which are preventable or that we manage through primary community care. The complexity is the significant variation in the practice leading to hospitalisation. So, for example, respiratory problems may be more prevalent in regions where it is colder or where there are higher rates of deprivation. The interventions by the health system in colder or more deprive d areas should be different to areas where other conditions are more prevalent. That is what the indicators will show. It’s how we will end the postcode lottery and it’s why we have the childhood ambulatory sensitive hospitalisations indicator.

To the second part of the question, maintaining waiting lists for cancer management is the responsibility of district health boards. All DHBs collect this information in a different way. This means that an accurate national view is not possible at this time. This inconsistency is why we have established Te Aho o Te Kahu, the Cancer Control Agency, and it is why we are reforming the hospital system across the board. However, what I can report is that the Minister of Health’s faster cancer treatment initiative aims to have 90 percent of patients receive their first cancer treatment, or rather management, within 62 days of being referred, and for the 2020-21 financial year quarter three—that is to say, the quarter ending 30 April this year—the national result is 85 percent.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Is the faster cancer initiative he has just described one of his health indicators?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, if the member’s first question is to be taken at face value, demonstrably he knows that it is not. The health indicators are about making sure the system as a whole runs to serve the needs of local populations and the national population as a whole.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he explain why last week’s health data revealed 30,000 people were waiting longer than the four months for hospital management, but his new indicator claims 3 percent more than planned?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The data that was released last week showed that there are waiting times for first specialist appointments, bearing in mind that some who have their first specialist appointment don’t go on to receive treatment and there are further waiting times, or a waiting list, for those waiting for treatment following their first specialist appointment. That has been part of the system for some time. The reality is, following the disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, the waiting time for those awaiting their treatment following their first specialist appointment is going down.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Why is he blaming the significant increase in patients waiting longer than four months for treatment on coronavirus when the wait list under Labour blew out from 2,000 people to 18,000 before the pandemic had even started?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, what I can point to is the disruption caused by COVID-19. In addition to that, what I can point to is the additional $282.5 million that this Government put into the hospital system to address those waiting lists over a period of three years, and those waiting times are coming down.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Can he name any one of his new health indicators that will improve in the first 12 months of his half-billion-dollar health system restructure?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The health system indicators will take effect from next year and they are about pointing out where the system is not meeting the population’s expectations. We know that, for example, in that ambulatory sensitive hospitalisation measure, the reasons why there are presentations to hospital for conditions that were, for example, the primary care system part of the health system working effectively—those people would not be presenting to hospital. So it is about having indicators that tell us where the system is in trouble so that we know where to go to fix the problem.

Question No. 5—COVID-19 Response

5. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: What recent announcements has he made on the roll-out of New Zealand’s vaccination programme?

I’m happy to announce that 10,497 vaccinators have now worked through the Pfizer vaccinator training course. With 5,114 of those people having been active in the vaccinator workforce since February, the increasing size and scope of the roll-out is clearly benefiting from their expertise. A huge amount of work has gone into having the vaccinator workforce ready to peak at the right time. The Ministry of Health predicts that we’ll need at least 1,600 fulltime-equivalent vaccinators during the periods of highest demand in September and October. Because many of the roles are part-time roles, during this key period we’ll actually need more like 6,500 people active on the vaccination roster at any one time, and hitting over 10,000 ready means that we’re ready to hit that goal.

💬 Dr Anae Neru Leavasa: How has the introduction of kaiāwhina vaccinators strengthened the wider vaccine workforce?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: We’ve seen a very strong response to our programme targeting kaiāwhina vaccinators—people already working in our health system in roles such as healthcare assistants. More than 250 people have signed up to be part of that, and 70 kaiāwhina trained vaccinators have already moved through that programme. Kaiāwhina have embraced the opportunity to learn how to vaccinate so that they can help to protect their communities. The programme is also helping us to boost the number of Māori and Pacific vaccinators, which will help to make sure everyone can feel comfortable when they access their shots.

💬 Dr Anae Neru Leavasa: What recent announcements have been made on extending accessibility of the vaccine to more New Zealanders?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Following a strong uptake from the 60-plus and the 55-plus age groups, COVID-19 vaccination bookings are now open to all New Zealanders aged 50-plus, or will be open from Friday 13 August, which is earlier than planned. This brings an additional 319,000 people into the programme, and they can start to take up their vaccines from Friday. Being able to open another age band so quickly is a good confidence booster in the programme, and shows that New Zealanders are embracing the opportunity to be vaccinated.

💬 Dr Anae Neru Leavasa: How is uptake of Book My Vaccine progressing alongside the wider vaccination roll-out?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Contrary to some earlier predictions, the Book My Vaccine system has been very, very successful. The booking system continues to perform well, with a record 296,650 vaccinations booked in the last week alone. We now have over a million vaccinations booked in the system. In terms of delivery of the vaccines, as of midnight last night, 2,293,000-plus doses of the vaccine have been delivered.

Question No. 6—Revenue

6. to the Minister of Revenue: What reassessment, if any, has he made on the merits of removing interest deductibility from rental income now that public consultation has closed, and what is his response to Chartered Accountants Australia & New Zealand, who said the proposal risked making the housing affordability situation worse?

The member’s premise is incorrect. Firstly, interest deductibility is not being removed for investment in new builds. Secondly, the public consultation was on the finer design details of the removal of interest deductibility for existing residential property and how the exemption for new builds will work. The consultation was not on the merits of the overall policy. The chartered accountants’ submission was one of many. The Government is considering all submissions and will make and announce final decisions on the design details in the coming weeks.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Why does he maintain that interest deductibility on rental income is a tax loophole when tax professionals say that it isn’t?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: There’s no doubt that the ability of highly leveraged investors to deduct interest in their property portfolios is a very significant matter in the market. We believe that action was needed. Investors in the housing market who were investors for rent increased substantially over the past year. In quarter four, at the end of last year, around 40 percent of all property transfers were to the owners of multiple properties, and the amount that was being borrowed by investors who can deduct their interest was increasing at a higher rate than was able to be borrowed by owner-occupiers. We stand by our view that change was necessary, and we also believe that the data—as the Minister of Finance outlined earlier—shows that this policy is helping turn things around.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Can he confirm that long-term build-to-rent developments will be exempt from the new tax rule?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I can confirm that we’re consulting on the details to ensure that new builds are properly exempt from the rules.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Does he still believe, as he stated in his response to my oral question on 8 July, that it would be “absurd” for a landlord to evict their tenants if the removal of interest deductibility forced landlords to sell their property, despite Treasury advising it will?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Putting aside the fact that there is a four-year transition in respect of existing properties that are leveraged, the point that I was making was that if they do choose to sell their property, the house does not—I think the phrase that I used was sort of erupt into flames. It actually becomes housing stock for someone else to use, so the net effect on the housing market and the availability of housing would be nil.

💬 Andrew Bayly: What proportion of the $800 million in extra tax that the Treasury forecast this change will cost landlords do officials expect will be passed on to tenants through higher rents?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: The calculations as to what the tax effects of this are can’t be finalised until the design detail is.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made about funding for health research?

Recently, I announced the latest round of research grants into some of New Zealand’s biggest health concerns. Cancer, diabetes, and heart disease research will now get support through health research funding. A total of $68.4 million has been awarded through the Health Research Council and covers 31 general project grants, five Rangahau Hauora Māori grants, five Pacific project grants, and four longer-term programme grants. The Government is committed to improving the health and wellbeing of all New Zealanders, and research is a vital part of this endeavour.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: What will this funding achieve?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The research funded will investigate issues ranging from vaccine hesitancy through to improving genetic diagnoses for tamariki across Aotearoa. For example, one of the researchers who received a grant is Dr Jason Gurney, who holds a Health Research Council Māori Health Research Emerging Leadership Fellowship. Dr Gurney’s project focuses on exploring the growing crisis of diabetes and cancer co-occurrence, and its impact on what happens to people with cancer. This research will allow us to predict how many people are likely to have both diseases in future, so we can not only plan for that but actually prevent the incidence of it. The projects funded this year show New Zealand developing innovative approaches that will have immediate effect on the health system, and that it has an agile and capable research sector that can respond to community needs and emerging health threats.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: How will this research benefit Māori and Pacific people?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Māori and Pacific peoples are twice as likely to die young from conditions that could have been treated, and being Māori or Pacific even determines what sort of treatment you get—at least, it does at the moment. Our plan for dealing with this includes looking at why that is happening and finding effective ways to deal with it. Included among the successful applications are projects led by Māori and Pacific researchers and driven by kaupapa Māori and Pacific research methodologies that will help to reduce inequities in health for Māori and Pacific peoples.

Question No. 8—Transport

8. to the Minister of Transport: Does this Government intend to proceed with the “separate structure for walking and cycling alongside the Auckland Harbour Bridge” as proposed; if not, when will he formally cancel it?

A separate structure for walking and cycling alongside the Auckland Harbour Bridge remains the preferred option within the New Zealand Upgrade Programme package, alongside our work to advance an alternative Waitematā Harbour crossing. As previously outlined, Ministers will make final decisions about how to take the project forward and give Aucklanders walking and cycling access across the Waitematā after receiving final advice from officials.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Are comments by New Zealand Herald political editor Claire Trevett that “[the PM] has all but confirmed the Government will scrap the unpopular plan for a $785 million Auckland cycle bridge,” an accurate assessment of the Government’s position on the bridge?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I’m quite certain that both Claire Trevett and myself are very pleased that neither of us have responsibility for the comments of the other one, but what I can confirm is that the Government does continue to look to the best options to give Aucklanders walking and cycling access across the Waitematā Harbour. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I am going to reiterate that, again, yesterday I received a series of complaints about barracking drowning out answers, and—sorry, I should have stood up and that would have meant that it was less likely that there’d be interjection. Can people just wind it back so people who are trying to listen to this, some of whom think it’s important, can actually hear it.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I take your point, but the Minister made a reasonably wry remark that provoked some humour from this side of the House; in fact, it provoked some humour from his colleagues, notably the Deputy Prime Minister. We can’t get to a situation where the House can’t enjoy a moment of levity and respond accordingly, and I put it to you that that should be allowed and, in fact, encouraged.

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah, and if there’d been a brief moment of levity as the member said, and not cries of derision drowning out the Minister, then I would totally agree with him. I’d love the place to be happier much more of the time.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: What has changed in just 68 days from when he said “Auckland [wouldn’t] reach its potential without it.”, and now, when it’s being scrapped?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I reject the assertion in the member’s question. The Government has consistently remained committed to walking and cycling access across the Waitematā Harbour—that is something that Aucklanders want to see happen. But we’ve always taken the point of view that we’ll listen to the advice, we’ll listen to the views that we hear, and we’ll make the best decisions about how we take that project forward.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Supplementary.

💬 SPEAKER: No, no, before the member goes, I just want to say that there are now members down the far end who are having conversations with each other which are making their way up here.

💬 Hon Member: Humour’s contagious.

💬 SPEAKER: It’s hard enough with the main problem causes without having additional ones adding to it, thank you.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: How can the New Zealand public distinguish between projects that are cancelled and projects that are delayed when the words “remains the preferred option” are used for both situations?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Well, I’ve been very clear and the Government’s been very clear that we have an option that is in front of us at the moment. I think that New Zealanders are sufficiently aware of the fact that that’s the option but that the Government continues to consider the evidence. I don’t think that’s a particularly difficult concept for anyone to get their heads around.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Has he been thrown under the bus by the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister, and, if so, does he wish he was in East Auckland, where at least there wouldn’t be a bus to throw himself under?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: No, I haven’t, but if perchance someday I am thrown under the bus, I’ll have a check and see if the homeless man’s hiding under there too. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: All right, OK—both sides have had some fun.

Question No. 9—Transport

9. to the Minister of Transport: Is his top priority in the Transport portfolio reducing carbon emissions; if so, what steps is he taking to achieve this?

It is one of my top priorities. Given transport has been one of the fastest-growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions in New Zealand, the need to take action is very, very strong. So far, this Government has taken a number of steps, including continuing the work of the last term and investing record amounts into walking, cycling, rail, and public transport, rolling out our clean-car package to drive down emissions from the light vehicle fleet, taking a holistic view of reducing transport emissions through Hīkina te Kohupara, setting a target of councils only purchasing zero-emissions public transport buses from 2025, and decarbonising the entire public bus fleet by 2035. I look forward to confirming what other steps the Government will take to reduce carbon emissions in transport as part of the Emissions Reduction Plan a little later this year.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Can he confirm that emissions from the private vehicle fleet have grown faster than the dairy and manufacturing sector over the last five years, and are now over 10 percent of the country’s total greenhouse gas emissions?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Yes, I can confirm those figures. There is a particularly challenging issue within the transport sector where the growth in transport emissions, including from the light fleet, has been very significant. The overall increase since 1990, for example, has been 90 percent—the steepest increase of any sector. This speaks for the need for us to take strong and urgent action to reduce that emissions profile, and that’s what the Government’s programme is focusing on.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Would it be possible under urgent climate time frames to reduce emissions from the vehicles we are importing without policies like the Clean Car Standard and Clean Car Discount, which set fuel economy standards and make low-emissions vehicles financially more attractive than high-emissions vehicles?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: No, I do not believe that that would be possible. New Zealand’s performance in this area has not been strong in recent years and, in fact, some makes imported into New Zealand have increased their emissions profile in recent years. Virtually every country in the OECD, with the exception of New Zealand, Australia, and Russia, has a clean-car standard - type of policy that incentivises car importers to bring cleaner vehicles into the fleet. The Clean Car Discount complements that policy by incentivising New Zealanders into cleaner vehicles. Not only is it the case that without those policies we would struggle to improve our fleet; the risk is that if we didn’t have those policies, we would, in fact, become the dumping ground for the world’s dirtiest vehicles as other countries increase their level of ambition.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Can he confirm that the Ministry of Transport’s green paper on reducing transport emissions states, “To reduce and avoid transport emissions, central and local government have to reconsider planned investments in major urban highway and road expansion projects”?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: It is very clear that if we want to transition to a decarbonised transport system, we are going to have to change the kinds of investments that we make across the system. New Zealand’s pattern of investment over about 70 years has been disproportionately focused on the roading sector to the exclusion of good public transport and low-carbon options. You can see, for example, in some of the recent decisions that we’ve made, we have been investing in rail and public transport and good quality walking and cycling options to complement the roading options that New Zealanders already have. It’s important that we give New Zealanders real transport choices to move around our growing cities and our regions.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Can New Zealand afford to spend many billions on transport infrastructure that won’t reduce emissions over the next 10 years, like the majority of the motorways that make up the majority of spending in the New Zealand Upgrade Programme?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: As I previously commented, we do need to invest in infrastructure that supports a decarbonised transport sector. The Government has made a series of investments in recent years which are about rebalancing the overall spend that Government makes in the transport sector, and I’m confident that the balance is good, but we will continue to make investments in the infrastructure that will support decarbonisation. I note, for example, the record $1.3 billion of investment the Government made in the Budget this year towards revitalising New Zealand’s rail sector to make sure that we move more freight around our country in a carbon-friendly way.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Has he seen research that cycling, including e-bikes, is 10 times more important than electric cars for reaching net zero cities, and will he provide financial incentives for people to buy e-bikes and cargo bikes to replace their car trips?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: There is absolutely no doubt that e-bikes are a very, very important part of supporting people to have better access within our cities and reducing our carbon emissions. The demand in New Zealand for e-bikes is very, very high, so there’s good work happening there already. What’s really important is that we provide the safe infrastructure so that people who do take up e-bike options are able to move around cities and towns confidently. That’s why, for example, in the Auckland Transport Alignment Project package earlier this year, there’s a $1.1 billion investment over 10 years in safe walking and cycling infrastructure. The Government hasn’t made any decisions at this point about financial assistance for e-bikes, but we continue to consider a range of policies as part of our work on the Emissions Reduction Plan.

Question No. 10—Māori Development

10. to the Minister for Māori Development: What recent reports, if any, has he seen on the Government’s Māori Housing Network programme?

I have seen a report that shows the Māori Housing Network repair programme, which is administered by Te Puni Kōkiri, has delivered critical repairs to 1,471 Māori homes throughout Aotearoa since 2018. The repairs include reroofing properties to ensure they remain warm and dry, rewiring old homes so our people are safe and protected, replacing walls and ceilings that had been covered in black mould, and ensuring the house is secure by repairing broken windows and cladding. Everyone deserves to live in a warm, safe, and healthy home, regardless of where they are, and I’m proud of the work that TPK—Te Puni Kōkiri—is doing out in rural New Zealand to enable this to happen.

💬 Arena Williams: How is the Māori Housing Network making a difference for Māori communities?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I recently visited Kaingaroa Forest, Murupara, and Minginui, where I saw firsthand the difference this programme is making for our rural Māori communities. In Kaingaroa Village, for example, I was invited into one of the homes by one of the ladies there, one of our kuia there, where I was told the difference that having a new roof and having the house rewired had made to her wellbeing and three generations of the one family who were living there. She said that the change in lifestyle was immense and that the whānau would never have been in a financial position to do the repairs themselves. We have reroofed and rewired over 90 homes in this little village, and, alongside other economic investments, the spring is starting to return in the steps of those who have called the village home for many years.

💬 Arena Williams: How is the Government supporting the future of the Māori Housing Network?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Alongside the work being led by Ministers Woods and Henare to build new houses, this Government recognises that everyone deserves to live in warm, safe, and dry homes. That is why this Government, as part of our overall Māori housing investment of $730 million, assigned $140 million over the next four years to the Māori Housing Network, where we will build new papakāinga and undertake critical repairs to more than 700 existing houses.

Question No. 11—Energy and Resources

11. to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Is it correct that she was first informed of a New Zealand - wide power emergency when One News called her just before 8.30 p.m., and when was her office first informed of Monday’s power emergency?

on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Resources: Not quite. I was first advised of Monday’s power emergency by a text message from my press secretary at 8.36 p.m. in response to the phone call she had received from One News. A member of my staff in my office was sent an email from Transpower at 7.51 p.m. on Monday, which, understandably, the staff member had not picked up prior to the One News call. This morning, I met with the chair and chief executive of Transpower and received an apology for the lack of earlier communication with my office. Transpower agreed that earlier and direct communication was needed and will occur in future. My priority now is to determine what caused the power outage and what must be done to avoid it happening again.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Was the Minister advised by the office of the Minister for State Owned Enterprises about the grid emergency notice, and, if so, is she aware of when he was advised?

I don’t believe so, but I haven’t asked for a specific—I didn’t know to ask that particular question. I had a thorough briefing before I came, but that issue wasn’t raised with me.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Can the Minister confirm that it takes Huntly between six and 10 hours to fire up an additional generator, and can she also confirm that it takes her office more time to tell her about a power emergency occurring than it does for Huntly to fire up a generator?

Well, the member’s arithmetic inadequacy is disclosed by that question, which, of course, cannot be reconciled with the answer that I’ve just given her.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Does the Minister—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! At least two members there should be quiet if they’d like this member to continue with her questions.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Does the Minister agree that there was both a failure of generation and a failure of communication by the Government on Monday of this week?

No, I don’t agree with the generality of that proposition. There was generation capacity available to be fired up that day that was not fired up. The cause of that, whether there was adequate information provided by the system operator, Transpower, or whether the responses of generators were correct or whether there was perfect information provided by the system operator to the distribution companies—all of those matters need to be checked. The first of those inquiries looking into that is required by a matter of contract between Transpower and the Electricity Authority within 48 hours of the event. [Interruption]

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Mr Speaker—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: The member can keep going. I know that someone else might want to ask one, but he has to stand up first.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Is the Minister aware that at 1.02 p.m., Transpower issued a warning that there were insufficient generation offers for the evening peak?

Yes, but the first I became aware of that was following the text message that I received from my press secretary, which led to my more detailed understanding.

Question No. 12—Health

12. to the Associate Minister of Health: What recent announcement has she made about vaping?

Today, new regulations came into force to protect young people and non-smokers from the risks associated with vaping. The Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act 1990 strikes a balance between ensuring vaping and vaping products are not marketed to or sold to young people, but are available for smokers who want to switch to a less harmful alternative. New regulations to achieve this cover a range of areas, including vaping packaging, product safety, and the responsibility of manufacturers and importers selling vaping products or smokeless tobacco products. Finalising the vaping regulations is a significant step towards our Smokefree Aotearoa 2025 goal.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: How will these new regulations protect young New Zealanders from the risks of vaping?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Many of the regulatory controls are to protect tamariki and rangatahi. To help reduce the attractiveness and appeal of vaping products to young people, we are banning the use of cartoons and toys on packaging. We have also made it mandatory to display R18 notices with health warnings in retail settings. Also coming into effect today are previously announced actions which include removing the temptation created by various flavours. We’ve banned generic retailers such as dairies, service stations, and supermarkets from selling vaping products in flavours other than tobacco, mint, and menthol. Only specialist vape retailers will be able to sell other flavours. From the end of November, vaping and smoking in motor vehicles carrying children will be banned.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: How will these regulations help to build a healthier future for Aotearoa New Zealand?

💬 Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death and disease in this country. While not without risks, vaping has a potential to help people quit smoking as a less harmful alternative. Other measures coming into effect today to protect New Zealanders from the risks of vaping include making it compulsory for a health warning to appear on the front and back of the product packaging in English and te reo Māori, and safety messaging must also be displayed. Manufacturers and importers can now start to notify the Ministry of Health of their intention to sell vaping and smokeless tobacco products. From February next year, they must have notified the ministry before these products can be sold in New Zealand, and these products must meet safety requirements before they can be notified. The new regulations will reduce harm and are risk proportionate, cost-effective, and workable for the people they affect.