Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Westpac has released its latest quarterly review on the economy. The bank’s economists note that New Zealand’s recovery is gaining traction, underpinned by continuing increases in household spending, lower than expected unemployment, stronger construction sector, and firmer activity in the manufacturing sector. They expect economic activity will continue to strengthen over the year ahead, with a continued support from fiscal and monetary policy. However, Westpac warns that the economy is expected to take time to recover as vaccines are rolled out around the world and conditions are set to remain uneven across sectors. Global activity is on the mend, but the recovery is uneven there too.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What other reports has he seen on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Securing the economic recovery in New Zealand has been supported by the manufacturing sector. The BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index remains in expansion mode, at 58.4 in April. This is 5.2 points down from that record all-time high in March, but it’s still the second-highest result since July 2020, when New Zealand came out of lockdown. The main drivers of this result continue to be production and new orders, with manufacturers seeing an increase in inquiries and orders, particularly in the building industry.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What reports has he seen on other sectors of the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Services Index also expanded, up 8.3 points to 61.2 in April, to reach its highest level since the survey began in 2007. The improvement was widespread, with increases in activities and sales, new orders, and employment. Indeed, the employment component in the index hit a record high of 60.8. Along with the above average employment reading in the Performance of Manufacturing Index, the BNZ’s economists say it suggests a rapid pick-up in job growth.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes—in particular, our recent announcement that Budget 2021 will help deliver on the Government’s commitment to a carbon-neutral public sector by 2025. Budget 2021 delivers a total of $67.4 million over four years, including a significant boost of $19.5 million to the successful State sector decarbonisation fund and $4.18 million for leasing low-emissions vehicles. These policies will see an additional 76,000 tonnes of carbon emissions saved over 10 years. These policies build on the last three Budgets, where we made significant investments in New Zealand’s low-carbon future.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why did the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) present as a preferred option to 23 South Island mayors and iwi a document proposing co-ownership of South Island drinking water?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: They did not.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is the Prime Minister now telling the House that this document here, that was presented to 23 mayors and iwi and says, “Owners are the Canterbury councils and Ngāi Tahu, who are responsible for appointing representatives to the JGG.”—is that not what it says?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m happy to correct the member. I’m advised that that piece of work was commissioned by Ngāi Tahu. It was prepared by PwC, and it is not something that Ngāi Tahu or, of course, the Government, who did not commission it, have been pursuing.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So when the Prime Minister is now telling the House that this document is the fault of Ngāi Tahu, is she now saying it was not presented by the Department of Internal Affairs at the hui that were being conducted by it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m actually rejecting the content of the question. I’m advised that it was commissioned by Ngāi Tahu. It’s not a question of blame.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Who presented the document to the 23 South Island mayors and iwi?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It was prepared and commissioned by PwC. It has not been pursued, I’m advised, by either Ngāi Tahu or, indeed, by the Government.

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: Has she seen reports from Ngāi Tahu to say that the Leader of the Opposition’s claims have been deceptive and wrong?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and I would really just encourage the member to engage directly with Ngāi Tahu on this issue, because I understand they’ve had to correct some of the statements that have been made, more than once now. Or, simply, if the member chooses not to do that, feel free to engage directly with local government members, particularly in the South Island, who have been engaged in these conversations either directly with DIA or alongside Ngāi Tahu. But again, I say to the member, if the member wishes to have a discussion over the fact that we have billions of dollars that need to be invested into our water infrastructure in the coming decades, and how we can best do that to protect the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders and ensure it remains in public ownership, which is a bottom line, I’m happy to have that debate. The member instead is choosing to turn this into a discussion it is not.

💬 David Seymour: Will the Prime Minister rule out joint ownership of water infrastructure in the South Island between Ngāi Tahu and councils, as suggested in this document?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Public ownership has always been a bottom line, so not only have we ruled that out; Ngāi Tahu have ruled it out.

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Prime Minister confirm reports that the chair of the Ngāi Tahu freshwater group said, “The only person proposing a co-ownership model is Judith Collins.”?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! That is not the Prime Minister’s responsibility.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is the Prime Minister telling the House, as she just said before, that PwC commissioned this document; in which case, who paid for it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is not what I said. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I think the member knows that there are—[Interruption] Order! I think the member knows there are ways of pursuing that. Probably the first is to listen to the tape.

💬 David Seymour: Will the Prime Minister rule out co-governance of water infrastructure between Ngāi Tahu and councils, as also suggested in this document, under her Government?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have been very clear on ownership structure. When it comes to the issue of governance of water services, the Government, local government—and, yes, alongside local government there has been good engagement with iwi, and local government themselves have been driving that, too. Those decisions are yet to be made, but we are very clear on ownership.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: What does the Prime Minister believe is co-governance of drinking water in the South Island?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Ultimately, this has all been driven by the fact that in Havelock North we had people who got extraordinarily sick, and some who died, as a result of us not having consistent provision around either water regulation, making sure that regulations are upheld, or that our water infrastructure is sufficient. Currently, we have over the next 30 to 40 years $120 billion to $185 billion worth of investment required in infrastructure. What we are starting is a discussion with local government around how we deal with that significant infrastructure gap and investment when currently $1.5 billion, or $45 billion over the next 30 years, is how much local government is likely to invest. That is the problem we’re trying to address, and I would welcome the member’s engagement on that issue.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is she concerned that the Government saying that Ngāi Tahu needs to exercise rangatiratanga over drinking water could influence the present High Court case where Ngāi Tahu is claiming full ownership of South Island fresh water?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No.

💬 Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Will it surprise the Prime Minister that Ngāi Tahu has consistently advocated for clean, safe, reliable drinking water, as well as improved freshwater outcomes, for all New Zealanders in the South Island?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is exactly what they’ve been advocating for, and not just around drinking water. Of course, they’ve been engaging on the freshwater reforms, as well. That is something that surely we all can agree on and all have an interest in.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Does the current Government continue to honour the co-governance arrangements signed up to by the previous Government for natural resources, including, for example, parks?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and it’s actually been in this House that we’ve discussed at some length the fact that it was the last Government that engaged in, particularly, Te Urewera Act of 2014; the Waikato River Authority of 2010, which is an independent statutory body under the Waikato-Tainui Raupatu Claims (Waikato River) Settlement Act, something I thought that previous Government was proud of; and, of course, governance around Little Barrier Island and Tūpuna Maunga o Tāmaki Makaurau Authority, 2014. My point here is that in Government these were areas in which members not only actively engaged; they encouraged and changed the law around. Now that they’re in Opposition, they appear to be taking their party backwards by decades. I wonder whether every member of that party is entirely comfortable with this significant repositioning.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports on a water authority for the South Island that gives Ngāi Tahu iwi co-ownership of water, as alleged by the Leader of the Opposition?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, because ultimately neither Ngāi Tahu—and they have been very clear on this—are pursuing that, and, of course, we’ve ruled it out as a bottom line. So they are attributing a position to Ngāi Tahu that they do not hold.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Then why are they suing in the court to own all the fresh water in the South Island?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Ngāi Tahu are rightly raising issues around fresh water, and it is up to them—[Interruption]—around freshwater quality—and they have every right to access the court, as does any other iwi.

Question No. 3—Prime Minister

3. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes. In particular, I stand by the work we’ve been doing around child and youth wellbeing and the release of the Child Poverty Related Indicators Report. These reports highlighted how Government action has started to improve the lives of children and their whānau. As a Government, we’ve invested in measures to support families, such as free trades training and expanding Flexi-wage, which has already resulted in a drop in unemployment to 4.7 percent. The report does identify that 20 percent of children live in households where food runs out, and we know this is higher for Māori and Pacific children, which is why we’re taking immediate action with initiatives like, for instance, our free Healthy School Lunches programme. We will build on this programme by continuing to put the needs and wellbeing of children and young people at the heart of our recovery.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: How will the Prime Minister guarantee that the Māori Health Authority is independent and will be funded proportionate to the Māori per capita health spend when her Government said its funding would be determined by the Ministry of Health?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yeah, and as we’ve always said, of course, it will still be for the Government of the day to determine health priorities. Then, of course, what we’re expecting is that Health NZ and the Māori Health Authority are involved in operationalising and developing the plans to roll out those priorities. One thing I would say in the nuance around the way that the funding—and I obviously can’t say too much more on the way that will be divided, but one of the questions around funding that I would ask all members to keep in mind is that whilst we’ve said we want commissioning powers for the Māori Health Authority, there will still be, of course, the provision of healthcare through Health NZ that reaches Māori populations too. So it won’t be the case that every single dollar spent on someone who identifies as Māori within the health system will go entirely through the Māori Health Authority. It’s just a nuance worth being aware of.

💬 Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Will the Government at least double funding for Pharmac to ensure that New Zealanders have access to lifesaving cancer medicines, as called for by 100,000 people in a petition that was movingly delivered to MPs last week?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We, of course, since we’ve been in Government, recognise the need for an increase in Pharmac funding. My recollection is that, of course, we’ve boosted Pharmac funding to now over a billion dollars—well over 20 percent increase in their funding. They then will make a call as to which medicines are a priority for them, and I think it’s often lost on all of us that they have the difficult decision of not just funding what can be lifesaving medical interventions; they also have to fund everyday, routine over-the-counter drugs: contraceptive pills, even cold sore treatment. They are the ones then that make the decision, once they are funded with additional funding, where that funding goes. As for any future funding, obviously that’s up to the Government of the day and the Budget of the day.

💬 Hon Peeni Henare: Does the Prime Minister have confidence in the leadership of Sir Mason Durie to ensure that the authority is independent while also working collaboratively with the broader health reform agenda?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, and whilst we’ve set out the broad parameters on how we wish the Māori Health Authority to operate, there of course are further questions that we need to work through collaboratively in the design of the Māori Health Authority, and Tā Mason Durie, I think, is the perfect person to lead that work.

Question No. 4—Finance

4. to the Minister of Finance: Will the Government deliver on all of its past Budget commitments?

Budget 2021, Securing our Recovery, will be this Government’s first Budget in which we will appropriate the first Budget commitments of this Government.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Will the Government deliver on its 2017 commitment to spend $2 billion on the KiwiBuild programme; and, if so, when?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: If I recall correctly, the appropriation for that was done in Budget 2018. That is being rolled out over a period of time. The programme has been subject to some reorganisation, obviously, since then.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Will the Government spend all of the funds appropriated in Budget 2018 for the billion trees programme; and, if so, how many trees have been planted under that programme?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Obviously, Governments have hundreds of Budget commitments. If the member wants a specific answer, he should put that question down on notice.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well, has the Government delivered on its Budget 2018 commitment to spend $300 million on 1,800 more police, given they’re still 578 officers short?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In respect of the first part of the question, we’d have to check on the dollars. In respect of the second part of the question, we’re very proud of the fact that we have put more than those 1,800 police through their training and out there on to the beat.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Will the Government deliver on its commitment to spend $1.8 billion on seed funding for Auckland light rail, wherein not even a business case has been completed?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is well aware of the fact that that money was allocated and that the work is ongoing on that. Obviously, the Government intends to make significant progress on addressing the incredible deficit in Auckland transport funding that we were left when we came in.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does the Government now have around $19 billion for reprioritising from previous Budget commitments that haven’t been fulfilled?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: With respect to the member, I’d definitely need to check his numbers on that one.

Question No. 5—Housing

5. to the Minister of Housing: What recent announcements has the Government made about responding to housing need in Rotorua?

Last week, the Minister for Social Development and Employment and I announced a plan to shift the way in which emergency housing is provided in Rotorua. Along with the Associate Minister of Housing with responsibility for homelessness, we’ve worked alongside council, iwi, and NGOs to develop solutions that will provide better support and outcomes for people living in emergency motels and the community. We are signalling a shift from the model that was introduced under the previous Government, by directly contracting motels for emergency accommodation and boosting the support services. Alongside these measures, we’re continuing to address the need for more permanent accommodation with our published plans to deliver 190 additional public houses in Rotorua by 2024. We are also working alongside locals to identify further land options for additional public and transitional places.

Tāmati Coffey: What are the benefits to contracting motels?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: By contracting motels, we can ensuring families with children have accommodation—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! It’s very early in what is going to be a very long week, and I think people just need to show a bit of respect so that we can hear the answers.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Thank you, Mr Speaker. By contracting motels, we can ensure families with children have accommodation separate from other groups that is better suited to their needs. Contracting these motels also means more intensive wraparound support service can be delivered, and bring certainty to the Rotorua accommodation sector by having motels used exclusively for emergency housing motels.

Tāmati Coffey: Why is it important to provide emergency accommodation?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Because we will not accept people living on the street, or children living in cars. While we do not see motels as a long-term solution for housing, we need to deal with the immediate crisis that has built up over the last decade. Over the coming months we’ll be working to roll out the model across the country. We’re looking at how it is working in Rotorua and we will take a place-based approach to ensure that we get the right support in place that reflects local needs.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can she confirm she received advice from her housing officials more than a year ago warning that emergency housing in Rotorua was creating risks to public safety and not providing people enough support; and, if so, why has it taken her so long to do anything about it?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The issue that the member raises relates to the use of a night shelter in Rotorua, which subsequently ceased operation alongside two other shelters at the beginning of April 2020, when Visions of a Helping Hand moved into the COVID emergency response motel space. I note that the three people previously supported by this site, and the two other shelters, were relocated to COVID-19 motels.

💬 Nicola Willis: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a document not previously available to this House, that states that “The concentration of some lower-end emergency housing motels”—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member describes a document; she doesn’t read it out. Where it comes from, the date, and its title, and that’s all.

💬 Nicola Willis: The document was provided to the Minister of Housing by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development on 13 March 2020, and refers to emergency housing motels in Rotorua.

💬 SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be none. It will be tabled.

Document, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.

Question No. 6—Finance

6. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that “better than expected economic recovery” gives him “more scope to keep a lid on debt and look towards a faster reduction in that debt”; and if so, why is he proposing paying down debt faster at a time of record low interest rates, rather than investing that money in ending child poverty and reducing emissions?

I stand by my full quote, which is “Our better than expected economic recovery does provide us with more options. There will be a careful balance here, too. There is a bit more space in our operating and capital allowances to support the recovery in line with the approach I have outlined today, focused on the areas where we can accelerate progress and in tackling our long-term challenges. At the same time, there is some more scope to keep a lid on debt and look towards a faster reduction in that debt once the recovery is secure.” In answer to the second part of the question, I would note that the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update released in December in fact shows debt increasing into the middle of the decade. This Budget is about striking the right balance and securing our recovery.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Why did he consider that the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update debt track was responsible and balanced in October and is now proposing a lower debt track instead of spending that money on tackling the long-term challenges the Government’s facing?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, overall, in answer to that question, I’d ask the member to wait until Thursday to see how all of those numbers fall. What I did say in the speech that the member is quoting from last Monday was that New Zealand’s better than expected recovery does give us more options, and I outlined that we would be taking a balanced approach to those options.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Is it good economic management to try and keep a lid on debt when interest rates are low, we are emerging from a recession, and more economic stimulus is needed?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again, I refer the member to my answer to my primary question. In fact, the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update released in December notes that debt will keep rising, both in real terms and, obviously, as a percentage of GDP, well into the middle of the decade.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Does he acknowledge that the less fiscal stimulus he does now, the more pressure there is on the Reserve Bank’s monetary stimulus, which is helping fuel the housing crisis and wealth inequality?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again, in the speech that the member’s primary question comes from I talked about the fact that given that we are not through COVID yet, it is important that the Government continues to stay involved in the economy and to stimulate the economy.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Has he considered that the results of the latest child poverty related indicators report that there’s not been improvement to hospitalisations, housing conditions, or food security suggest that, to date, the Government’s so-called balanced fiscal approach is insufficient to address child poverty?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think I would challenge some of the statements in the member’s question about exactly what that data does say. Where I do think the member and I would agree is that there is always more to do in terms of improving the wellbeing of our children.

Question No. 7—Education

7. to the Minister of Education: What progress has the Government made in supporting schools with property maintenance projects?

In December 2019, I announced a school investment package as part of the Government’s New Zealand Upgrade Programme. Nearly every State school received a one-off cash injection of up to $400,000 to deliver property projects that had been deferred or delayed. I’m pleased to be able to report that a thousand of those projects have been completed so far, across 639 schools. This is a significant milestone and a fantastic achievement for those schools. It’s good for the schools and for the builders and builders’ merchants in towns up and down the country. These projects have helped to keep our economy ticking over during a challenging period.

💬 Jo Luxton: Why was it important for the Government to deliver this special package of funding?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The package has given every school the ability to undertake property projects that had been otherwise put off, and it came alongside the significant funding that the Government’s been investing in schools. Schools have been able to use this funding, among other things, to upgrade classrooms and learning spaces, install energy-efficient heating and lighting, resurface outdoor courts and paved areas, install shade sails and covered areas, and upgrade playing areas and sports facilities.

💬 Jo Luxton: Where was the 1,000th school investment package project completed?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: A very good question. It’s very fitting that the 1,000th project to be completed was in Whanganui, which is, in fact, where we announced the package 18 months ago. Whanganui Intermediate received $399,861 in funding, and they put this towards a number of projects, including relocating a two-classroom block to another area of the school and installing fencing, heat pumps, and new signage throughout the school.

💬 Jo Luxton: Is he satisfied with schools’ progress in rolling out these projects?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes, indeed, I am. More than 3,800 projects across New Zealand are in the various stages of delivery. Hundreds of schools have been re-clad or had insulated walls. They’ve had improved heating systems, landscaped play areas, and resurfaced courts, just to name some of those projects. It’s also important to remember that not long after we announced the money and just as schools were starting to get under way, we had lockdown—the COVID-19 lockdown—which did delay a number of these projects, and schools have done a very good job of catching up and making up for lost time.

Question No. 8—Health

8. to the Minister of Health: When the Ministry of Health engaged with the board of the Laura Fergusson Trust, did it offer any funding?

on behalf of the Minister of Health: I have been advised by the Ministry of Health that they were informed on 1 November 2019 that the Laura Fergusson Trust was exiting its contracts with the Ministry of Health. Following this, the ministry had two formal engagements with the trust in the two weeks following, including a meeting with the trust board on 11 November 2019. Before the ministry was advised of the trust decisions, there were no formal requests to discuss financial matters. After the trust made its decision, all types of support, including funding, were on the table and were able to be discussed. The trust declined to engage further and informed the ministry that its decision to stop providing these services was final.

💬 David Seymour: When the Minister says that all options, including funding, were on the table, were the trust board told that the ministry would consider additional funding in order to allow them to continue operating?

I have been advised that a discussion was had in which all types of support were offered, and, in fact, a range of supports are offered to other providers—yes, financial, but also assistance with meeting quality assurance requirements or workforce development. However, no discussion was able to be entered into because the trust informed the Ministry of Health that its decision was final.

💬 David Seymour: Is the Minister satisfied that those previously reliant on services from the Laura Fergusson Trust have been satisfactorily reaccommodated with replacement services?

I am aware that this type of transition would be very difficult because the residents were asked to move from their home. However, we have gone through a process to relocate every resident to accommodation, and I am told that it is satisfactory.

💬 DAVID SEYMOUR: Why, then, does the Minister think that over 200 people, many with disabilities, came out to protest the closure and threatened sale of land from under the Laura Fergusson Trust Auckland this Sunday?

As I mentioned, I am aware that it must be very distressing to be asked to leave your home, and that is why I understand so many people came to the protest. However, that decision was precipitated by a refusal to engage with the ministry over an extension of the contract by the trust.

💬 David Seymour: Would the Minister or his officials be open to meeting with the board of the Laura Fergusson Trust to have further discussions about how the organisation might be made sustainable, were the trust board willing to come back to the table?

It has always been our position that we would like to have further discussions with the Laura Fergusson Trust; and yes, we remain in that position—we’d be open to that discussion.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Before I call the next question, I want to make it clear to the person operating the camera in the gallery that he appears to be operating it in a way which breaches our Standing Orders. I know that we have an offshore group here who might not understand the New Zealand rules; to use that footage would be a breach of privilege and would result in the loss of accreditation.

Question No. 9—Social Development and Employment

9. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she have confidence that all people staying in taxpayer-funded emergency housing are safe; and if so, why?

on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I am confident that the vast majority in receipt of an emergency housing Special Needs Grant are in appropriate and safe accommodation. I draw the member’s attention to the changes that we announced last week to address some of the issues in Rotorua, and, as the Minister of Housing mentioned in an answer to an earlier question today, we are looking to roll these changes out more widely. But where people don’t feel safe, we do encourage them to make immediate contact with the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) or the police, and appropriate steps will be taken.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Exactly how many people are in unsafe emergency housing and when will the announced changes to Rotorua be rolled out across New Zealand?

As I indicated in the—sorry, on behalf of the Minister, as the Minister of Housing indicated in questions that she answered today, we did start with Rotorua, with very good reason, but we expect in the coming months that we will be looking to roll this approach out across the country. We have seen that the process that was put in place by the previous National Government isn’t working and we’re taking moves to fix it.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she acknowledge that there wouldn’t be thousands of Kiwis living in emergency housing if the Government had delivered its 2017 promise to build 16,000 KiwiBuild homes?

On behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment, I’d like to point out to that member that the people living in motels were unlikely to become first-home buyers. What I would like to also point out to that member is that, actually, we’d have far fewer people—in fact, no people—living in motels if the previous Government, of which that member is a member, hadn’t sold off public housing and failed to build them. They finished Government with 1,500 fewer public houses than they started with. They failed to build. If they built at the rate we are, we would have around 15,500 more public houses in this country.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: How can she have confidence that children are not being placed next to gang members when MSD still do not know who is staying at which motel?

On behalf of the Minister, as I’ve indicated in previous answers, we are looking at an approach where we can contract. The way in which the previous system was set up—that MSD can legally not go out and contract motels, because it’s a demand-driven appropriation. By working with the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, we can now contract, which means we can do placement. We are starting this in Rotorua and it is something we will be rolling out across the country in the coming months.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Can she guarantee no aspect of information-sharing arrangements between MSD and the gang intelligence unit were suspended during COVID-19, given her eventual acknowledgment that data-matching between MSD and the Inland Revenue Department was suspended for more than a year, from March 2020?

On behalf of the Minister, I ask that member to put that question in writing.

Question No. 10—Transport

10. to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcement has he made about pathways to a net zero emission transport sector?

Last week, I released Hīkina te Kohupara - Kia mauri ora ai te iwi: Transport Emissions: Pathways to Net Zero by 2050, a Ministry of Transport green paper outlining potential policies and pathways to a net zero emissions transport sector, as part of our work to develop an emissions reduction plan in response to the draft recommendations of the independent climate commission. We’ve already taken steps to reduce emissions with policies like the Clean Car Standard and increased investment in public transport, walking, and cycling, but Hīkina te Kohupara shows that we have much more work to do.

💬 Terisa Ngobi: Why is decarbonising the transport sector a focus for the Government?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Tackling the climate emergency is a priority for our Government. The transport sector produces 47 percent of New Zealand’s carbon dioxide emissions, and between 1990 and 2018 those domestic transport emissions increased by 90 percent. Reaching New Zealand’s goal of net zero carbon by 2050 would unclog our cities, clean up our air, support the creation of new businesses in low-carbon industries, and create sustainable jobs across the country.

💬 Terisa Ngobi: What are the next steps?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: While the pathways outlined in Hīkina te Kohupara are not Government policy, we want to have a national conversation about the changes that we all need to make. Some of the potential changes are potentially significant, but we cannot meet our emissions reduction targets without change. We want to hear from New Zealanders over the coming weeks on the suggestions in Hīkina te Kohupara, and I ask for all New Zealanders to engage in this important national debate with an eye to our shared future, not simply to the partisan politics of the day. This work will feed into our emissions reduction plan, which will be released by the end of the year.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: On your bike!

💬 SPEAKER: Mr Goldsmith, do you have another comment to make to me?

Question No. 11—Police

11. to the Minister of Police: Is she concerned gang membership in New Zealand is continuing to increase; if so, does the Government have a target to reduce the number of gang members?

It would be more accurate to say that the number on the national gang list has increased. However, I would note the comments from the Police Commissioner that the list was created for intelligence purposes, not to give us an accurate statistical picture of gang membership or activity. I also note that he has expressed a lack of confidence in the accuracy of these numbers. The Government is committed to combating the harm caused by organised crime through a variety of measures, including introducing firearms prohibition orders; amending the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act to hit the gangs in their pockets, where it hurts the most; investing record amounts into our police service; committing to recruiting an additional 1,800 police officers; and ensuring that we now have the largest police workforce ever.

💬 Simeon Brown: Point of order. There were two parts to that question. I believe the Minister addressed the first part, but I didn’t hear anything about whether the Government has a target to reduce the number of gang members.

💬 SPEAKER: I think the Minister, effectively, answered the question when she said that there wasn’t a statistically valid way of counting them.

💬 Simeon Brown: Does she accept that gang membership is now over 8,000 members; and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I would note the comments from the Police Commissioner that the list was created for intelligence purposes, not to give us an accurate statistical picture of gang membership or activity. I also note that he has expressed a lack of confidence in the accuracy—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Some of us actually want to hear the answer.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The Government has committed to combating the harm caused by organised crime. Already as part of Operation Tauwhiro police have seized 350 firearms, $2.46 million in cash, 8.6 kilograms of meth; arrested 378 people; and conducted 291 search warrants.

💬 Simeon Brown: Does she accept that gang membership is now over 8,000 members; and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I have said twice now that those numbers are not statistically correct. The gang list is an intelligence tool only. It is not an accurate measure of gang numbers in New Zealand.

💬 Simeon Brown: Does the Minister have no confidence in the police intelligence which says that gang membership is now over 8,000 in New Zealand?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I’ve answered this question three times now, and I will repeat it for the benefit of the member. The comments from the Police Commissioner were that the list was created for intelligence purposes, not to give us an accurate statistical picture of gang membership or activity.

💬 Simeon Brown: What is the number of gang members on the gang intelligence list?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The total number of people on the national gang list is 8,006.

Question No. 12—Commerce and Consumer Affairs

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Commerce—

💬 Chris Bishop: Oh, oh, she’s not happy!

💬 HELEN WHITE: —and Consumer Affairs.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! That’ll happen for tomorrow. Helen White, start again.

12. to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcement has he made about changes to KiwiSaver?

💬 Matt Doocey: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You’ve just taken two questions off the Opposition for tomorrow. You’ll remember that at the start of question time today, the Government interrupted the Leader of the Opposition when she asked her question, and you didn’t do anything then.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, and that was because I was allowing for something which had happened last Thursday, to balance it off then.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I didn’t realise you’d taken two supplementaries off. I didn’t actually hear what you said before. But I’d just note that the reason why there was a bit of a hubbub during the asking of that last supplementary from the member was in response to a provocation from the Minister making a reasonably sarcastic and mocking signal to my colleague, and that’s why there was a bit of a hubbub.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I’m not sure if there was a hubbub. I heard that member yelling loudly.

Last week, the Minister of Finance and I announced changes to the default KiwiSaver scheme, which will result in hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders getting far better bang for their buck, with lower fees and increased savings at retirement. On the advice of an investment panel, BNZ, Booster, BT Funds Management, Kiwi Wealth, Simplicity KiwiSaver Scheme, and Smartshares have been selected as default providers. These six providers were selected because they offer Kiwis more bang for their buck in terms of lower fees and higher levels of service.

💬 Helen White: How many Kiwis stand to benefit from these changes?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Good news: around 381,000 members are currently in the default fund they were automatically allocated to when they started a new job, because they did not make any active decisions about their fund. The changes will also mean that those joining the scheme at 18 could have an extra $143,000—

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: How much?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: —in their balance—$143,000—at retirement through lower fees and higher investment returns.

💬 Helen White: What other changes have been made to the KiwiSaver default provider settings?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: As part of the new default provider arrangements, we’ve moved the default investment fund type from a conservative to a balanced setting, to increase the likelihood of higher returns over the long term. We also know that many Kiwis care about where their money is invested, so we’ve excluded any investments in fossil fuel production. This reflects our Government’s commitment to addressing the impacts of climate change and transitioning to a low-emissions economy.

Chlöe Swarbrick: Will the Government build on this important decision to exclude fossil fuel investments from default KiwiSaver funds, as the Greens have long campaigned for, by requiring public investment funds to divest, perhaps by adopting my member’s bill in the ballot right now, which would do exactly that?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: We are certainly committed to moving towards responsible investment. In fact, as one of the changes to default provider settings, they will now be responsible for providing a responsible investment policy, which will be lodged on their website. Of course, consumers, with more active choices and with products like Mindful Money, will be able to see where their KiwiSaver funds are being invested and make those ethical decisions themselves.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! But before we move on to the next item of business, I’ve been contemplating what occurred before, and I want to ask whether a Minister made an offensive gesture or a gesture likely to lead to disorder.

💬 Hon Poto Williams: Mr Speaker, I applauded.

💬 SPEAKER: Frankly, in fact, I’d assumed it was the member next to her, just on the basis of form, and it might have actually been an offensive gesture to cause that sort of reaction. I think members on this side need to be a bit less sensitive. That concludes oral questions. I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill (No 3), the Holidays (Increasing Sick Leave) Amendment Bill, and the Building (Building Products and Methods, Modular Components, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.