Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Last week, Xero released its latest Small Business Insights data, showing that small business revenue was up 1.5 percent in February from a year ago. The data also showed positive revisions to revenue figures in December and January, with January’s revision showing it had joined every other month since May 2020 in reporting positive annual revenue growth for New Zealand’s small business sector. Xero’s insights show that small business jobs were up 1.8 percent in February, compared to pre-COVID levels in the first week of March 2020. We will continue to see volatility in economic data in New Zealand across the next few months as the impacts of COVID continue to show through, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the positive underlying indicators for the New Zealand economy.

💬 Greg O’Connor: What reports has he seen on how New Zealand’s export sector is performing?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This week, the ANZ released its Commodity Price Index for March 2021. It showed the World Commodity Price Index lifted 6.1 percent, and the New Zealand Commodity Price Index rose 7.4 percent from February, both hitting new record highs. ANZ said the strength in the index was primarily driven by a sharp lift in dairy prices, which have actually hit their highest level in seven years. They also reported meat and fibre prices rose in March, and are up 5.9 percent from a year ago; the horticulture index was unchanged; and the forestry index rose during the month, and is up 25 percent on a year ago. While our borders may have been largely closed for people movement, our exporters have continued to do a great job in supporting New Zealand and helping continue to see New Zealand open for business.

💬 Greg O’Connor: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This week, the IMF released updated projections for the international economy, revising up its global growth forecasts for 2021 and 2022. The IMF said, “Even with high uncertainty about the path of the pandemic, a way out of this health and economic crisis is increasingly visible.” It is good news for New Zealand that the rest of the world can see the path for reopening their domestic economies to where New Zealand has been for some months, particularly as our export sector is in a strong position to benefit from the higher rates of global growth. However, the IMF also warned that a high degree of uncertainty surrounds these projections. Against the backdrop of an ever-changing global pandemic, the Government remains committed to supporting our economy as the recovery continues.

Question No. 2—Health

2. to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?

Yes.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: When he replied to concerns around the mental health report this morning and said, “Let’s not get dramatic about it”, what part of the report is too dramatic for him?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The member must’ve misheard my answer. I wasn’t talking about the report; I was talking about the interviewer.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Subsequent to the latest report being released, has he instructed health officials to ensure the indicators that were removed will be included in the next annual report?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I have spoken to ministry officials about the nature of the report, and suggested to them that if they think the content of future reports needs to change, then that should be in consultation with relevant stakeholders.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Is he concerned that New Zealanders will not believe his first response here today, but instead will remember him saying, “Let’s not get dramatic” about mental health reporting?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I don’t think I’ve faced such a confusing succession of questions, but my first answer was yes, and I stand by that answer.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Does he think the CEO of the Mental Health Foundation was being dramatic when he said this morning that the mental health situation in New Zealand has got worse under his Government?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I don’t think the head of the Mental Health Foundation was being dramatic, but he was wrong.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Has he read any briefings around rationalising specialist services at provincial hospitals to manage funding down pressures?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: No.

Question No. 3—Arts, Culture and Heritage

3. to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What recent announcements has she made about futureproofing the arts, culture, and heritage sector?

Last week, I announced the first round of the Cultural Sector Innovation Fund, called Te Urungi: Innovating Aotearoa. Through a series of nationwide events, Te Urungi encompasses a new approach to supporting ideas, collaboration, and safeguarding mātauranga Māori. In acknowledging the impact that COVID-19 has had on the sector, Te Urungi aims to provide support for creatives to work collectively in designing more sustainable and resilient ways of working. This is a key part of the Government’s COVID-19 response to help the arts sector rebuild and recover.

💬 Paul Eagle: What is different about this particular fund?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I’m excited that Te Urungi provides us with an opportunity to take a different approach to supporting the arts sector. Over 2½ days, cultural sector practitioners, creatives, collectives, and organisations will be supported by mentors and experts to collaborate, develop, test, and refine their ideas as part of a rapid design process. At the end of each event, the most promising projects will receive funding to support their further development. While securing funding will be a key goal for the participants, these events are being designed so that everyone walks away with new knowledge, skills, and connections that can be further explored and developed moving forward.

💬 Paul Eagle: What feedback has she seen about the announcement?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: An opinion editorial in the Dominion Post written by Mark Amery stated, “This week’s announcement of … Te Urungi: Innovating Aotearoa is a good example of a government exploring how it can be more open and collaborative with the creative sector beyond the usual gatekeepers.” We will continue to gather more feedback as we consolidate and roll out more Te Urungi events across Aotearoa.

Question No. 4—Finance

4. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement in regard to tenants being evicted from their properties as a result of the housing changes, “I don’t think it’s a fair characterisation at all, and in fact those changes have not kicked in yet”?

Yes, I do stand by my full statement, which was a response about the impact of the interest deductibility changes, among other things, where I said there is a four-year phase-in period for anyone who is currently using the interest deductibility mechanism.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Is it Government policy that interest deductibility changes will be backdated to 1 April; and, if so, does he agree the housing policies have already kicked in?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I don’t accept that for the phase-in of interest deductibility. There will still be 100 percent availability of that through until the end of September.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Did he expect that the phased removal of interest deductibility would result in mum and dad investors evicting their tenants because they can’t afford the tax increases, as has been reported in the media?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I reiterate the comment I made in my last answer: up until 30 September 2021, 100 percent interest deductibility is still available.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Has he asked for specific advice on whether the interest deductibility change he has announced will push up rents and evictions?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As has already been stated in this House during the debate when these announcements were first made, there is a wide range of advice around the impacts on rents. That is because there are a number of issues that impact rental prices, including availability of housing. The questions that people have around their future investment decisions are ones that they will make over the coming months, but there is a wide range of advice on those matters.

💬 Andrew Bayly: What was that advice, and why hasn’t he made it public?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the second part of the question, as was stated in the House earlier this week, that advice will be part of a wider release coming in future weeks.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Is he aware of a recent survey of 3,700 people—mum and dad investors—that revealed that 74 percent of these people now intend to push up rents in order to afford the new-house tax changes?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I’m not aware of that particular survey. What I am aware of is the fact that most landlords in New Zealand value good, solid, long-term relationships with their tenants and look after their tenants.

💬 Matt Doocey: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I just ask: previously you took one question off the National Party; the Government MPs made a comment during Mr Bayly’s question and there wasn’t a question taken off them.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry. I missed it. I was focusing on dealing with an urgent question during that time.

💬 Matt Doocey: Well, Mr Speaker—

💬 SPEAKER: I missed it; I’m sorry.

💬 Matt Doocey: Well, will you seek to remedy the question taken off us?

💬 SPEAKER: I’d really not like to get into running this in a way which involves—

💬 Hon Member: Appeal rights?

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah, well, Mr Penk has indicated that it would be quite good to have access to the videos. It certainly would have helped Dr Smith yesterday.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: I would have hoped it would be the video referee.

💬 SPEAKER: It would have helped Nicola Willis—I’m getting that name right today—yesterday, if we did have access. But I’m not proposing to take questions away based on telling tales.

Question No. 5—Revenue

5. to the Minister of Revenue: Will the public be consulted on the proposed changes to interest deductibility; and if so, what is the timeline for that consultation?

Yes, the public will be consulted in the coming months, and final design decisions as a result of that consultation will be announced before the changes take effect on 1 October 2021.

Brooke van Velden: Is there anything that submitters could say that would change his mind about his interest deductibility proposals?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Well, yes, as to details. Broadly, the consultation will include the interest allocation approach and the application of rules to particular ownership structures, the treatment of interest costs when a property is sold, the definition of new builds, as well as a number of technical issues, including those relating to specific industry sectors.

Brooke van Velden: What safeguards will he consult on to ensure that homeowners are not forced to sell their property due to their increased tax bill?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I’ve seen reports this week, including from people saying that they owned 70 properties, 45 of which were residential rentals. And my reading of the analysis in that article was that the overall tax bill for that particular taxpayer after the four-year transition period would be $45,000 per annum, which would be about $1,000 per property. I suspect most property investors will take decisions as they think fit for their future investment portfolio. But clearly, in the case of that particular individual with 70 properties, the effect was going to be around $1,000 per property per annum.

Brooke van Velden: Will he consult on ways to lessen the tax burden this proposal is projected to have on mum and dad landlords, who will face no other option than to raise rents or sell their asset?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Well, in respect of the assertion in that question that they have no other option other than to raise rents, I would note that most landlords did not drop their rents when interest rates decreased in recent years.

Question No. 6—Environment

6. to the Minister for the Environment: Is the Government supporting waste minimisation; if so, how?

Last week, I had the pleasure of opening a manufacturing plant upgrade at Golden Bay Cement in Whangārei, which now uses old tyres to fuel the Golden Bay Cement kiln. Can I begin by acknowledging the efforts of the Hon Nick Smith and the Hon Eugenie Sage in advancing this project in prior Governments. It’s a very important project. This plant now uses waste tyres as part of its fuel, and it’s going to have a big impact on one of New Zealand’s biggest waste problems. The Government has funded $16 million of the $25 million project, which is a Fletcher Building initiative assisted very substantially through the Waste Minimisation Fund.

💬 Rachel Boyack: How will the Golden Bay Cement project minimise waste and reduce carbon emissions?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: This very innovative project really is a win-win-win. It helps a significant waste problem, reuses a valuable resource, and reduces coal use. By using old tyres as a fuel, Golden Bay Cement will reduce their coal use by about 15 percent and their ironsand use by about 15,000 tonnes a year—it uses the wire in the tyres instead. Without harmful effects from air discharges, it will divert from landfills or stockpiles about three million end-of-use tyres per annum, making a big dent in the six million end-of-use tyres that New Zealand produces every year.

💬 Rachel Boyack: What other projects is the Government supporting through the Waste Minimisation Fund?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: The Waste Minimisation Fund has helped reduce waste under multiple Governments. Some of the most recent funding decisions include a $294,000 project with the Nelson Environment Centre to expand their e-waste repair, reuse, and recycling project. There’s a lot of others; I’ll only name one. They’re very diverse, but $150,000 went to RefillNZ to promote refillable and reusable behaviour to reduce the use of single-use plastic water bottles.

💬 Hon Eugenie Sage: What progress has been made on the establishment of a mandatory product stewardship scheme for tyres so that importers, retailers, and consumers all contribute to a circular economy approach to end-of-life tyres?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Good progress is being made on that. In July 2020, the Prime Minister announced for the Government Cabinet’s decision to declare six products, including tyres, as priority products under the Waste Minimisation Act, and the Government’s currently developing the regulatory proposals to support implementation of those priority product stewardship schemes, including the tyre industry’s proposed scheme. Public consultation is anticipated in the second half of this year.

Question No. 7—ACC

7. to the Minister for ACC: Does she think it is acceptable that ACC now has a more restrictive policy on birth-related injuries, when 85 percent of New Zealand women experience perineal injuries?

I have the deepest sympathy for women who—particularly, those who suffer grade 3 and 4 perineal tears. This occurs during 1 to 2 percent of births and, clearly, can be life changing. However, the member is mistaken: ACC does not have a more restrictive policy. It is bound by its legislation, which does not cover a birth injury unless it is caused by the medical treatment the mother received or a failure to provide treatment. I have asked officials for advice on whether high-end perineal tears should be covered by ACC’s legislation.

💬 Jan Logie: How does the Minister explain a drop in claims for perineal injuries from around an average of 30 a month, to only four claims a month, from August?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: ACC has sought advice from the medical practitioners—people like obstetricians—on perineal tears and where perineal tears may be caused purely by the birth of the child versus by treatment, and has more clarity from the medical experts on what the differentiation between those two scenarios would be. That is what has led to the drop in claims.

💬 Jan Logie: How does she think people with birth injuries—for example, pelvic rotation—will rehabilitate if they can’t afford the hundreds of dollars for, say, osteopathic treatment?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There is support and healthcare available through the health system. One of the issues that has come up for me, as the Minister discussing and exploring this issue, has been the inconsistency of healthcare and supports available between different DHB catchment areas, and I guess that level of inconsistency isn’t necessarily just confined to perineal tears and the treatment of them. I will say that the work that’s being done on the health and disability review system and where we are heading is an attempt to address some of those inconsistencies, and we would all like to see that happen.

💬 Jan Logie: Is the Minister concerned that investigations have shown ACC is more likely to deny women’s claims and, if successful, pay them less than men?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: With regards to perineal tears and the assessments that have been made with regards to who is eligible for ACC support, the advice I’ve had put in front of me is that it is the medical experts that have provided the clarity and the guidance on what may be caused purely by childbirth as opposed to treatment or a lack of treatment, and with regards to women or men getting differential support through ACC, I don’t have any of that information in front of me.

💬 Jan Logie: Will the Minister consider initiating a review of ACC to ensure gender equity of access and outcomes?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This Government is committed to equal access to supports through ACC, and if there are inequities that are occurring, then, yes, I would expect to receive advice from ACC.

Question No. 8—Tourism

8. to the Minister of Tourism: How is the Government supporting councils and regions most impacted by the loss of international tourists to build infrastructure for regional development?

Business in five regions face greater economic uncertainty than others, given their reliance on overseas visitors. The drop in regional tourism activity is primarily measured by monthly data for economic card transactions collated by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. The regions are Queenstown Lakes, Kaikōura, Westland, Fiordland, Mackenzie District—Aoraki / Mount Cook. For this reason, I am reopening a special fund, the Tourism Infrastructure Fund, that last allocated support to councils pre-COVID, in November 2019. Although all councils will be able to apply to the Tourism Infrastructure Fund, I’ve instructed that applications from these regions be prioritised. Between $13 million and $18 million is available in this round.

💬 Rachel Brooking: How has the Tourism Infrastructure Fund supported small councils in the previous rounds?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The fund is primarily designed to support small councils facing pressures on their infrastructure from an increase in tourism numbers and demand which they cannot fund from their limited ratepayer base. To date, 154 projects have been funded by the Government. It has enabled councils to build and maintain important assets like public toilets and showers, car parks and footpaths, waste disposal and water treatment facilities, freedom camping sites, picnic shelters, jetties and boat ramps, bike stands, and mountain bike hubs. The Tourism Infrastructure Fund and a dedicated freedom camping fund have allocated around $87 million to support regional tourism and visitor facilities in the past three years.

💬 Rachel Brooking: What reports has he received from councils or tourism operators in the five beautiful priority areas about the impact of the Government’s support?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I met with the Mayor of Kaikōura and councillors and tourism operators in the town last week. They told me their town has been doing it tough in the five years since the earthquake, but they have big plans for making the best use of the fund and are looking at an innovative proposal to develop a network of walkways and cycleways along the coast, which will be popular with domestic and international tourists alike. The Southland District Mayor, Gary Tong, says he’s been keen to discuss ideas with Fiordland locals about the best way to support jobs and businesses there. The Mackenzie District Mayor, Graham Smith, says his council will be taking full advantage of the support, a sentiment shared in public comments by Queenstown Mayor Jim Boult and Westland Mayor Bruce Smith. One objective that is shared across all five regions is the need to diversify their local economies to reduce their reliance on one industry: international tourism.

Question No. 9—COVID-19 Response

9. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Did he receive a paper from the Ministry of Health dated 26 January 2021 outlining the initial delivery schedule of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine and an 11-week roll-out schedule; if so, why has New Zealand not cumulatively administered 390,413 as stated at week seven?

on behalf of the Minister for COVID-19 Response: My office received the document on 28 January. This was a draft early design plan which showed one scenario based on information available at the time. Specifically, it shows three phases, with delivery dates only available for phase 1, reflecting the first tranche of Pfizer vaccine doses we purchased. Since then, we made a decision in February to purchase enough Pfizer to cover the population over 16 years of age, meaning an additional 8.5 million doses. On the basis of that, we also then received several updated delivery schedules from Pfizer. We then developed a roll-out model that consistently scaled the number of doses given per day over time until July, when the majority of our stocks arrive. This means the model we operate to now differs substantially from the draft document in question. We also made decisions in February to change the sequencing framework to prioritise border workers and front-line health workers.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why, when the Government has received over 450,000 doses of the COVID-19 vaccine, are we not even close to administering the 390,000 the Ministry of Health outlined in January?

I reject the notion that the document in question was a finalised plan. It was a draft. But let me be clear on what would happen if we pursued a roll-out at the speed the member is suggesting. We would have burnt out the stocks, and we would now be closing down vaccination sites, sending the staff back to their other jobs in the DHB in order—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! No, the Minister will resume her seat. I’m just going to ask people to turn the volume down on my left so I can hear the answer. Can I also make—I don’t know if I’m meant to make this sort of suggestion. I think if the Minister put her pen down, it wouldn’t wind them up in quite the same way.

We will be delivering this vaccine roll-out in a sustainable way, with an incremental increase over time until the stocks arrive in July.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why, when the Government is in possession of an additional 225,000 doses more than the ministry knew it would have when it provided the advice in January, are we nowhere near the 390,000 doses it said should be administered in week seven?

As I mentioned in my previous answer, we need to gradually and sustainably scale up the number of doses delivered over time so that we don’t need to unroll the vaccination programme we are rolling out.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why did the vaccination dashboard released yesterday not publish the weekly targets into the future of how many doses of the COVID-19 vaccine would be administered, when the Minister has been receiving numbers as early as January on this?

The ministry has published an outline of the model, which reflects the doses to be delivered in the future.

💬 Chris Bishop: On that model, will the Government publish the underlying data from the spreadsheet that goes into the graph that the ministry has released, so that New Zealanders can assess for themselves how many doses will be administered in every week?

The spreadsheet of the number of doses delivered per week was added to the ministry website last night.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: That doesn’t address the question.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I’m going to ask the member to repeat his question, and I’m going to ask Dr Nick Smith to stop trying to chair the House from that seat.

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, it was a bit off the cuff, so this may not be it.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the question was, essentially, will the Government publish the underlying data from the spreadsheet.

💬 Chris Bishop: I can ask it again, but OK.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I can remember what the member said.

So the ministry has published an outline of the model that will show our progress towards scaling up towards the end of the year, and we consistently provide weekly updates of our progress against targets.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why has the border worker announced at 1 o’clock today as—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Can the members from two parties down the back just behave themselves and be quiet, please.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why has the border worker announced at 1 o’clock today as contracting COVID-19 not yet received any doses of the COVID-19 vaccine, and what are the logistic issues the Director-General of Health indicated were the reasons he has not yet been vaccinated?

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question on notice covers a specific document and a schedule of vaccinations, and I don’t believe that question flows on from that matter.

💬 Chris Bishop: Speaking to the point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, speaking to the point of order—the member can table my note if he wants to.

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, I accept on the first clause of the question, but I think the second clause of the primary, around the administration of COVID-19 vaccines, brings it within the scope.

💬 SPEAKER: And that was my ruling when I made a decision on an urgent question: that it could be incorporated within supplementaries to this question. The primary question is just wide enough. And for the Government’s information, in case anyone is still counting, because of the urgency of the situation, I granted the Opposition an additional supplementary question in order to cover that off.

The investigation into this case is under way, and, indeed, that will be a question that we are asking. We continue to progress vaccination of border workers. We have achieved high levels of vaccination in the border workforce—over 17,000 people—and we now have a small number with whom we are having conversations about redeployment.

💬 Chris Bishop: How many front-line border workers are yet to receive the COVID-19 vaccine?

I’m very happy for the member to put that question in writing to my office and we’ll provide the answer.

Question No. 10—Transport

10. to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by his statement in the light rail Cabinet paper, released on 31 March, that the project faces “a funding shortfall, requiring substantial central government support”?

on behalf of the Minister of Transport: Yes, in the full context of the Cabinet paper, which makes it clear that funding and financing of the project will be better understood through the business case and policy work.

💬 Simon Court: Will he rule out increasing petrol excise duties and road-user charges to fund light rail, as suggested in the Cabinet paper, while he is transport Minister?

On behalf of the Minister, the Government has indeed ruled that out for this term of Government.

💬 Simon Court: Will he rule out reprioritising other transport projects to fund light rail, as also suggested in the Cabinet paper; if so, which projects could be reprioritised?

On behalf of the Minister, as the paper notes, there is a considerable amount of work to be done to decide on the exact funding arrangements. It is not my intention that we take money away from existing projects, but we will be working through a number of funding options.

Question No. 11—Women

11. to the Minister for Women: What recent reports has she seen on New Zealand’s gender equality gap?

I’m pleased to inform the House that New Zealand’s placing on the Global Gender Gap Report has moved from sixth place in 2020 to fourth place in 2021, just behind Iceland, Norway, and Finland. On 30 March 2021, the World Economic Forum released its 2021 Global Gender Gap Report, a report that analyses the gender equality gap for 156 countries by looking at data from four indicators: economic participation and opportunity, educational attainment, health and survival, and political attainment. This is welcome progress and shows this Government is delivering for women.

💬 Sarah Pallett: What does the report highlight is a contributing factor, or contributing factors, for New Zealand moving from No. 6 to No. 4, as the most equal country?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: This report highlights the success of New Zealand’s work on closing the gender pay gap, increased women’s participation in the labour market, and our share of women in professional and technical roles. It also highlights New Zealand’s increased representation of women in Parliament, up from 40 percent to 48 percent in 2021, and increased women in ministerial positions to 40 percent. However, the report does indicate that despite this progress, we still have some more work to do, and, as the Minister for Women, I am committed to continue to see this progress.

💬 Sarah Pallett: What initiatives have been progressed in the last four years that have contributed to closing the gender pay gap?

💬 Hon JAN TINETTI: Under this Government, New Zealand has made significant progress on the gender pay gap and pay equity. For example, with the Gender Pay Gap Action Plan, we’ve delivered the biggest drop in the Public Service gender pay gap in 17 years. It’s now at 9.6 percent, the lowest ever recorded. We’ve passed the Equal Pay Amendment Act, enshrining in law the principle of equal pay for work of equal value. This will deliver significant pay increases to female-dominated workforces and will make sure women are paid fairly. We have achieved the highest ever representation of women in several important areas in Parliament, reached our target of 50 percent women in public sector boards and committees, and 53 percent in public sector senior leadership roles. We’ve also increased paid parental leave from 22 to 26 weeks so that parents can make choices about balancing paid work and caring responsibilities, introduced leave for people who have experienced miscarriage, and introduced domestic violence leave.

Question No. 12—Health

12. to the Minister of Health: Can he confirm that since 2017-18 the average wait-time for child and adolescent mental health services has got worse across at least 16 of the 20 district health boards?

I am aware that wait times have increased slightly over the last five years for child and adolescent mental health services around the country; however, this is also consistent with increased access to services over this time period, meaning that more people are receiving support. Child and adolescent mental health services are funded to see children and adolescents up to the age of 18 with the highest level of mental health or alcohol and other drug needs. I have been advised that the Ministry of Health provides DHBs with guidelines on data reporting through its Programme for the Integration of Mental Health Data, known as “PRIMHD”—the data collection programme. However, as this data is collected and aggregated at the DHB level, it’s not possible to verify the consistency of the data that the member, in reports made public today, has himself collated. One of the challenges we have in the system about getting accurate data is because of the nine years of underinvestment by the previous Government in IT infrastructure.

💬 Matt Doocey: In light of the Minister’s response, when he used the word “slightly”, how does that reconcile when some DHBs are reporting an increased wait time under his watch from 34 days to 59 days?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: My answer referred to the slight increase across the system as a whole. Across the system as a whole, those wait times have increased between 5 percent and 7 percent, and that is because of the growing number of young people getting access to the services, which is pushing those times out.

💬 Matt Doocey: Why, then, when the Minister refers to years of underfunding in the former National Government, were reported waiting times stable and declining under the last National Government, when, under his Government, they have increased significantly?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member just can’t ask about why something was declining under the National Government. That is not his responsibility.

💬 Matt Doocey: Does it concern the Minister, with all his announcements of investment, that waiting times for child and adolescent mental health services were stabilised and declining under the former National Government yet under his watch they have increased significantly?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What I think has happened is that expectations have increased because this is a Government that has put a lot more—way more—into mental health and addiction services than the previous Government did. More people are getting more access to services, and it is putting pressure on those services, but that’s why we have given ourselves four to five years to transform a system that was so badly run down by the previous Government.

💬 Matt Doocey: Why will the Minister not take responsibility for the fact that waiting times for child and adolescent mental health services have increased significantly since Labour came to office despite promising to increase access?

💬 SPEAKER: OK. I’m going to ask the member to rephrase his question. The member starts off with an assertion which has not been as yet justified.

💬 Matt Doocey: Will the Minister take responsibility for the reported waiting times for child and adolescent mental health services that have increased in the last three years?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What I will take responsibility for is continuing the incredible work that this Government has been doing to rescue a poorly neglected and run down mental health and addiction service, putting more investment in it, and helping more people who have desperately needed it for so long.

💬 Matt Doocey: Why, when we are constantly told by the Government that they have invested new money into mental health services, are there reports from mental health professionals stating the money is not flowing in?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well, just to put some context around that, what I can say is that this Government has put an additional $318.4 million of ring-fenced funding around specialist mental health services in the last three years, compared to the previous three years, which was $194.5 million. So we have nearly doubled what the previous Government had put in over an equivalent period of time. The services in this country around mental health were so badly run down, and that’s why we’ve had to give ourselves a five-year time frame to transform them, to do the investment and to transform them. That programme of work is 20 months in. We have a way to go, and we’re doing our best to help the people who most desperately need it.

💬 Matt Doocey: Will the Minister commit today to releasing the data for waiting times in mental health services?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: All information and all data that has been publicly available will continue to be publicly available, and that member has himself produced material from publicly available data. So we will continue to honour that commitment.