Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that “all parts of the economic apparatus” need to address rampant increases in house prices; if so, will the Government’s upcoming announcements include bold policies to reduce house prices in a controlled way?

I stand by that statement in the context it was given, regarding the Government’s decision to incorporate housing into the monetary policy remit between the Government and the Monetary Policy Committee of the Reserve Bank, to ensure that “all parts of the [economic] apparatus need to be working towards these goals.” With regard to the second part of the member’s question, this Government has an ongoing policy agenda to address unsustainable house price growth, increase housing supply, support renters, and provide more opportunities for first-home buyers, and we will continue to roll this out. I’m sure the member appreciates that there will be no one single policy that will solve the housing crisis. This is a big, complex, longstanding challenge that will require continued, bold intervention over a long period of time. Our upcoming announcements will be part of that programme of work.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Does he think house prices should increase, stay the same, or decrease, in the context of the median house price in New Zealand increasing by $50,000 in February alone?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in my primary answer, the level of house price growth the member mentioned in the latter part of that question is unsustainable, and that is the very reason why we are bringing forward a programme of announcements next week.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Point of order. He certainly addressed the questions, but it was quite a specific question about—not whether it was unsustainable but whether house prices should increase, stay the same, or decrease.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, and, as the member is aware, she can’t get that specific, like a sort of a yes/no answer or pick A, B, or C, in the context of a supplementary question.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Will he remove the five-year cap on the brightline test so that anyone investing in a second—or tenth—property pays tax on the profits?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I’ve said in the House a number of times, we’re taking a look—we have taken a look—at the existing initiatives that we have in place, which includes the brightline test brought in by the National Party and then extended by the last Government. Announcements around those issues, and others, will be made next week.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Will he provide the Reserve Bank with more tools to regulate mortgage lending that is a risk to financial stability and contributes to our overheating housing market?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member will be aware, I wrote to the Reserve Bank Governor on exactly those issues, in particular the question of whether or not there should still be interest-only mortgages available to investors, and also whether or not debt-to-income ratios could be applied to investors; I’m awaiting a response from the Reserve Bank on those matters. I do note, in the context of ideas that have been put forward today around the housing market, the question of debt-to-income ratios and first-home buyers is a very tricky one, and if those debt-to-income ratios were applied broadly, I think there might be more inequity in the housing market—that’s the issue I’ve raised with the Governor.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Will he provide fiscal stimulus by raising benefits so that the Reserve Bank can wind down its house-price inflating large-scale asset purchase programme and funding for lending programme?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Government has already increased benefits—we increased them, in fact, a year ago today by $25 per week. In addition to that, we’ve had support including increasing the winter energy payment and other parts of the Families Package. We’ve also increased the minimum wage significantly, by about 27 percent. Further decisions, obviously, are subject to the Budget.

💬 Hon Julie Anne Genter: Will his Government increase Kāinga Ora’s debt limit, empowering them to build many more public and affordable homes?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again, I could say ibid, but all decisions around such matters would be part of Budget consideration. What I can say is we have significantly increased Kāinga Ora’s borrowing capacity over this term of Government in order to do exactly the things that the member is asking.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What has been the impact of the COVID-19 response package he announced on 17 March 2020?

A year ago today, I announced the first COVID emergency economic response package, and at the time I told the House that we would give our total commitment to protecting the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders. Our initial $12.1 billion economic response package included the wage subsidy, extra support for the health system, and the first phase of our economic recovery package. In that initial tranche, and also in the further support we gave—as a result, the wage subsidy has paid out $14 billion, helping to keep 1.8 million New Zealanders attached to their work. I said, at the time, that the package would be about cash flow and confidence, and that is what we have focused on in supporting New Zealand businesses and workers through COVID-19.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What are some of the other impacts of the 17 March package?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The 17 March package was the first step in our support for the economy. Since that first package, we’ve continued to update and expand our support to ensure New Zealanders are kept safe from the virus itself and that their livelihoods are protected—that’s included the leave support scheme, the short-term absence payment, and now the resurgence support payment. Also on 17 March last year, we permanently lifted main benefits by $25 per week and doubled the winter energy payment for 2020 to support our most vulnerable. This was in recognition of the disproportionate impact that the recession that was inevitable that day would have on low-income New Zealanders, and we continue to support them today.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What support did the package provide for exporters?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, the 17 March announcement last year put aside $600 million for an aviation support package, in part to help exporters continue to operate as commercial flights to New Zealand dried up. Since May last year, that support has enabled more than 6,000 flights carrying over 120,000 tonnes of airfreight worth $8 billion, while at the same time restoring our airfreight capacity to 90 percent of pre-COVID levels. In addition, more than 60,000 people have returned to New Zealand on flights supported by the scheme—or 60 percent of the total number of people to pass through our managed isolation and quarantine facilities. I think it’s unlikely that many of those journeys or the freight would have moved without that intervention. This has been a very significant part of helping our exporters continue to thrive through COVID-19.

Question No. 3—COVID-19 Response

3. to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: Did a Cabinet committee consider a paper relating to a trans-Tasman safe travel zone this morning; if so, was there a discussion about what the earliest date could be for the opening of a safe travel zone if New Zealand acted unilaterally to do so?

The member will be aware that the Cabinet Manual states that discussions at Cabinet committees are confidential, and I don’t intend to release details of those discussions, particularly not before Cabinet has considered them. But what I can say is that I have been keeping my Cabinet colleagues regularly informed of discussions around safe travel zones, including with Australia. I’m also happy to repeat, for the member’s benefit, what I said last week and yesterday: that we have moved on from discussing a joint decision-making framework with Australia to discussing a more unilateral decision-making framework.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That dealt with the second part of the question on notice; it did not deal with the first clause of the question, around whether or not this—

💬 SPEAKER: And the member did address the first part, and he made it very clear that he’s not prepared to discuss what was on Cabinet committee agendas this morning. That’s a question of the Minister’s—[Interruption] Who said that?

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Me.

💬 SPEAKER: All right. The member’s lucky it’s St Patrick’s Day. Right, as I was saying, it is a matter of judgment for the Government whether they release and when they release the agenda for Cabinet committee and, in fact, for Cabinet meetings.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: I just want to make sure that the member’s not going to argue with me, because if he’s going to argue with my ruling, we’re going to run into a Speaker’s ruling that I made about three weeks ago now as to whether doing that is disorderly or not.

💬 Chris Bishop: Was a date discussed this morning at Cabinet committee around the opening of a trans-Tasman safe travel zone?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I indicated in my first answer, discussions at Cabinet committee are confidential.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why is the Government unwilling to even acknowledge that the issue of a safe travel zone was talked about by a Cabinet committee this morning?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Because I, as a Minister, am following the guidance provided in the Cabinet Manual.

💬 Chris Bishop: Have officials provided him with advice around a date that a trans-Tasman safe travel zone could open if New Zealand acted unilaterally, in line with what he said yesterday?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I’ve been receiving regular advice on the practicalities of opening up a trans-Tasman safe travel zone, including some of the constraints in terms of timing that may exist around whenever Cabinet may make such a decision.

💬 Chris Bishop: Have officials provided him with a date as to when the earliest possible opening could be for a trans-Tasman safe travel zone, with New Zealand acting unilaterally to do so?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: It’s a little more complex than that, as I have indicated previously to the member and, I think, in public interviews. Airlines have indicated that they would need around three weeks to prepare for the opening up of something with Australia. The Auckland international airport have indicated they’d need somewhere around about 10 days to prepare for the implementation of a safe travel zone. There are still a couple of other issues that we need to resolve before Cabinet will be in a position to make a final decision.

Question No. 4—Housing

4. to the Minister of Housing: Does she stand by all the Government’s statements and actions in relation to the Land for Housing Programme?

Yes.

Brooke van Velden: How many houses will be built under the agreement on the future of Ihumātao, which is based on funding from the Land for Housing Programme, over the next three years?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The number of houses that will be built on this parcel of land is still being worked through. There is a very clear process that is established under the agreement of how this number will be arrived at. Under He Pūmautanga, which was signed between the Kīngitanga, the Crown, and the council, the process was laid out. The Kīngitanga is currently acting as an intermediary between mana whenua, the Crown, and the council. They will determine who has ahi kā status, in accordance with tikanga, and from here a rōpū whakahaere, to make decisions on the outcome for land, including the establishment of a development partner and the number of houses, will be determined. I note this will be way more than the zero that were going to happen under the land as it was currently held.

Brooke van Velden: Is it true, as stated and redacted in paragraph 21 of the advice Housing and Urban Development submitted to Cabinet, that the new owners of Ihumātao could determine there are “other uses which are deemed to be more suitable than housing” for the land?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In terms of the paragraph 21 that the member is referring to, of course the Cabinet paper had to canvass what would happen if other decisions were made, and that was also clearly laid out in the Cabinet paper. That was in redacted paragraph 23.

💬 Nicola Willis: How can she justify using funds to purchase land at Ihumātao that were explicitly earmarked in this document, Budget 2020, for KiwiBuild homes?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The member is confused about the KiwiBuild appropriation—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: —that within the KiwiBuild appropriation sits an allocation called the Land for Housing Programme. This was an allocation that was set up in December 2017, and I will take the member through the purposes of that allocation: (a) uses funds to acquire land that is suitable for residential development; (b) it can on-sell that land to iwi and/or private developers who use their own capital to develop the land; and (c) requires that each site be developed to conditions so that its development contributes to addressing the Government’s social objective in relation to housing, in particular by increasing total housing supply, the pace of construction, and the proportion of new dwellings built for public housing and/or first-home ownership. So to claim that this is money that would be used for the building of houses is incorrect.

Brooke van Velden: Why was the Land for Housing Programme used to fund this agreement when the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development said that there were other uses than housing that could be deemed more suitable under this agreement?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The Land for Housing account was used because the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development deemed that this was a piece of land that (a) was deemed suitable for building houses—in fact, it already had consents on it; Fletcher Building were planning to do houses there. It also sits very neatly within our acquisition programme within the Greater Auckland area of land that is being purchased for housing outcomes. So, in answer to the member’s question, it was used because it does fit within a portfolio approach to our land acquisition in Auckland.

Brooke van Velden: When will the first house be built?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I refer the member back to the detailed answer that I gave her in terms of the process that is now being worked through that will result in a development partner being established. That time frame is yet to be determined, but what I would point out to that member is that it will be far quicker than the alternative would have been.

Brooke van Velden: Is it an error or is the KiwiBuild dashboard correct when it says zero KiwiBuild houses were completed in January?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I don’t have the dashboard in front of me, but I would not be surprised if it was zero. Builders, like many New Zealanders, do take holidays over January.

Question No. 5—Social Development and Employment

5. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What updates has she received on the progress of Mana in Mahi?

I’m pleased to share with the House that following our initial target of 150 placements in 2018-19, Mana in Mahi has now surpassed the 2,500 placement mark; 89 percent of those who are active or have completed or have exited early are not on benefit. There are currently 1,566 active participants, 45 percent of which are Māori and Pacific. Retention has been a main focus, with 76 percent remaining in the programme for 91 days or longer—1,480 employers have taken on participants they might not otherwise have trained. I’m encouraged by the steady progress that we’re making through Mana in Mahi.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: How does the performance of Mana in Mahi compare to the Government’s other employment programmes?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: In addition to the 2,500 Mana in Mahi placements, He Poutama Rangatahi has already supported 2,275 rangatahi into employment, education, or training; 82 percent of those engaged were not in any at the time of enrolment. Yesterday, Minister of Education, Chris Hipkins, announced that more than 100,000 people have accessed free trades training, with over 21,000 apprentices benefiting through the Government’s Apprenticeship Boost support. And, if that wasn’t enough, Flexi-wage has kicked off, aiming to support up to 40,000 New Zealanders into work. Mana in Mahi is part of the Government’s wider work programme to support better employment outcomes. We are backing—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. We have had enough. I think it’s fair to say that I’ve had representations to do with St Patrick’s Day and also to do with the naming of questions as “patsy questions” this morning. I agree with the individual who made the comment that they could be better described as “poodle questions”.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: How is Mana in Mahi contributing to outcomes for Māori receiving a benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Happy St Patrick’s Day, Mr Speaker. Thirty-eight percent of all placements at the time of referral were Māori; 71 percent of Māori participants have been on the programme for 91 days or longer and have a training pathway forward. This is reflected in the gradual increase of Māori exits off main benefits and into work since 2017. Overall, exits off main benefits into work were the highest since February 2000. Mana in Mahi is continuing to support more and more people into employment, education, and training, helping to accelerate our economic recovery and lay the foundations for New Zealand to build back better.

💬 Hon Member: Well-groomed question.

💬 SPEAKER: By whom?

Question No. 6—Agriculture

6. to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by his statement from 23 February 2021, “The shortages projected pretty much every season by horticulture and viticulture have never fully been realised … Some employers never have trouble getting staff; others always seem to have challenges”; if so, does he believe labour shortages in the horticulture sector are an employer issue?

I stand by my full statement that “I have faith in the innovation of the horticulture and viticulture sectors, and, in fact, all the sectors across the primary area. The shortages projected pretty much every season by horticulture and viticulture have never fully been realised. Yes, it’s challenging for some. Some employers never have trouble getting staff; others always seem to have challenges. Yes, there is a shortage now, but, as has been said by people in the paper today out of Martinborough, we’re just going to have to work together to get through this challenge to make sure that we don’t waste the opportunities.”

💬 Hon David Bennett: Does he believe that there needs to be additional Recognised Seasonal Employer scheme (RSE) workers, in addition to the 2,000 that were announced late last year, to meet that shortage?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: I’m very pleased that the member has acknowledged that we have brought into the country—at a time of COVID crisis, when thousands of New Zealanders want to return home, we’ve made provision for 2,000 RSE workers to assist the industry. We’ve always indicated that if there was capacity in managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ), then maybe the industry would have access to some of that. But, at the moment, the world is still facing a COVID crisis. We’re still at threat of infection from people coming into this country. We are going to run a robust MIQ system to ensure that New Zealanders and New Zealand—and every one of us here—are protected from COVID.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Has he sought from the Minister of Immigration an increase in RSE workers since last year’s announcement, to meet that shortage?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: On a regular basis I’ve had discussions with the Minister of Immigration and ensured that we have flexibility across the work permits in this country, the visitor permits in this country, so that those people who are in this country on temporary permits can roll them over and can move around the country to take up any job opportunities. The horticulture industry at the moment is under some pressure, but so too are other industries that have relied on migrant labour. We’re trying to be fair to all industries. The Minister of Immigration has indicated quite clearly that at this stage there is no capacity to bring in any more RSE workers.

💬 Hon David Bennett: So when the Minister says there’s no capacity to bring in overseas workers, then RSE workers from Pacific Island States that are COVID-free—would he extend the quarantine-free status that has recently been announced for Niue to those workers in the case so that they don’t need that quarantine privilege either?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: We’re going to run a robust quarantine system in this country, regardless of where people are coming from, because the risks out there are still significant. The fact that we haven’t been able to open up a bubble across the Tasman is because there’s still uncertainty around the management of COVID in both our countries, and we have to ensure—

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Michael Baker says you’re wrong.

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: —Mr Smith, if you want to listen—that New Zealand and New Zealanders are protected from COVID, first and foremost. The industries, including horticulture, that have the benefit of being able to continue to operate pretty much as normal in a COVID world—most of them appreciate that opportunity.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Has he seen reports that orchards in Greytown have been working constructively with the Ministry of Social Development to the tune of 100 extra workers announced this week?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: There are many, many initiatives across the country—and that’s just one of them. We’ve provided, as I said before, a six-month extension for employer-assisted work visa holders. We’ve made changes to the working holiday visas to allow holders to extend their time in New Zealand. We’ve created a Seasonal Work Scheme—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat—will resume his seat. It was a very simple question; the Minister could have just said, “Yes.”

💬 Hon David Bennett: Why won’t he extend the privilege that he has given to Niue to other Pacific Island States that have RSE workers that are in demand in New Zealand?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: One of the—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I’m going to ask David Bennett to rephrase the question. The member has now gone right outside the area of ministerial responsibility.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Will the Minister advocate for other Pacific Island States, other than Niue, to have the same privilege that has been accredited to Niue for RSE workers to come from COVID-free Pacific Island States to New Zealand to work in our horticultural sector?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: We have opened up the border for 2,000 RSE workers. One of the requirements of that scheme was to ensure that the countries themselves were prepared to take back the workers and not have them stuck in this country. There are already about 5,500 RSE workers who would like to return home but can’t. We have the privilege of utilising their labour through this season, but we do not want to see people come from those countries and be stuck over here when they’d rather go home. That’s part of the whole scheme.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Mr Speaker, point of order. We had a number of clear questions to the Minister that were about whether he was advocating for other Pacific Island States; he didn’t answer that at all. I request the Minister to re-answer that question.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I think you got a clear indication of the attitude of the Minister to that request. I think most members of the House could understand.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Point of order. Is that a no from the Minister, then?

💬 SPEAKER: No, that wasn’t a no at all, if the member listened to him. Does the member have a further supplementary? No.

Question No. 7—Commerce and Consumer Affairs

7. to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What recent announcement has he made about consumers who are accessing financial advice?

We know many New Zealanders have been doing it tough financially due to COVID-19—for example, a Commission for Financial Capability survey during the nationwide level 4 lockdown found that 66 percent of New Zealanders were financially exposed or in difficulty. This means it’s more important than ever that Kiwis are getting financial advice that puts their interests first, and that’s why I’m happy to say that consumers seeking financial advice can be assured that their interests will be put first under the new financial advice regime that came into force this week. The new regime will give people greater confidence to seek advice that will help them achieve significant milestones in their lives, such as saving for a first home or planning for retirement.

💬 Jamie Strange: What new requirements will financial advisers have to abide by under the new regime?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: A key requirement of the scheme is that all advisers must sign up to a new code of professional conduct which sets standards of competence and professional conduct. Advisers will also be required to operate under a licence granted by the Financial Markets Authority. I’m pleased to say that these changes will increase transparency by requiring financial advisers to disclose any conflicts of interest, commissions they’re paid, and limits on the companies they advise on. Introducing a new financial advice regime has been a major undertaking, and I want to thank the financial advice sector for their continued input into the development of an improved regime that will better serve the interests of people seeking financial advice, helping them navigate difficult financial decisions and plan for their future.

💬 Jamie Strange: How will the new regime apply to advice received through digital channels?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Very good question. In this ever-changing digital world, it’s crucial that all people have the same protections, whether they access financial advice from an individual adviser or through the use of artificial intelligence on a digital advice platform. The new regime has been futureproofed, so consumers can rest assured that the same protections apply to both. By enabling digital advice, the new regime will improve access to advice for people who might not be able to afford comprehensive financial advice. I’m very proud to be a part of a Government that puts people first.

Question No. 8—Education

8. to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and policies on education?

Yes.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has he changed the Government’s target of having just 70 percent of students attending school regularly since his statement: “I want all kids to be attending school regularly, and I won’t accept a target that’s below that.”?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No, not yet. It is one of the targets in the Ministry of Education’s annual reports that I’m looking very closely at. As I canvassed with the member at select committee, one of the problems with the 70 percent target is it refers to the number of half-days that a student attends school, and there can be some justified reasons why students don’t attend school that can distort the statistics—for example, we do have some families that take their children away overseas for extended periods of time, that has an impact on the attendance statistics. Sometimes those absences are justified.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he expect we can turn around declining literacy and numeracy standards across the county when somewhere between 30 and 40 percent of students do not attend school regularly?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Student attendance—regular attendance—at school has been an area of focus for this Government. The downward trend in student attendance started some time before we became the Government, around about the time the last Government improved the attendance services.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why has the Government not released the attendance data from all four terms in 2019 and 2020, which his ministry said would be publicly available by the end of February?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I’m not sure why that information hasn’t been released; I’m sure it will be very shortly.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he devote sufficient time and energy to the many serious challenges across the full education and tertiary education portfolios while also managing the Government’s response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Because I’m busy and conscientious.

Question No. 9—Education (Pacific Peoples)

9. to the Associate Minister of Education (Pacific Peoples): Fa‘afetai tele lava, Mr Speaker. What is the Government doing to support the education needs of Pacific learners and families impacted by COVID-19?

The Government announced $12 million is available for the Pacific Education Support and Pacific Education Innovation Funds. This will support Pacific communities and learners and educators to lead, design, and implement innovative solutions that will help Pacific learners participate and engage more effectively and achieve successful educational outcomes so Pacific learners aren’t left behind. Lifting success for educational achievements for Pacific learners is a key aspiration of this Government’s Pacific wellbeing approach, and one that Pacific parents and teachers strongly support.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: What does this mean on the ground for Pacific learners and families?

💬 Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO: It’s game-changing, and there’s a number of examples of innovative solutions that are having an immediate impact on Pacific learners. In Manurewa, for example, a primary school used last year’s funding to run an after-school learning innovation project, using science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics, for Pacific learners. These Pacific learners are empowered by a hands-on, practical programme that is family-focused and fun. In the Waikato, a Pacific provider is employing a full-time person to empower, support, and provide mentoring to 50 year 13 Pacific students from five local high schools, and it’s helping these students make the transition to tertiary education with confidence. In Auckland—I can go on, Mr Speaker—

💬 SPEAKER: No.

💬 Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO: —the Anglican trust, through a project named Moana Tautua, used last year’s funding, again, to place a Pasifika mentor in Auckland schools to work with Pacific learners impacted by COVID-19 and help strengthen their resilience so that those learners remained engaged in their educational pursuits.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: Why is the Government focusing support in this area?

💬 Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO: Pacific peoples are the youngest and fastest-growing population group in New Zealand, and we’ll need to support their educational achievements to ensure they fully realise their potential in supporting New Zealand’s accelerated economic recovery. The Government’s response is also based on the leadership direction from the Pacific communities themselves, who told us during the fonos held in 2018 and 2019 that they wanted a dedicated Pacific education plan and support to help Pacific learners succeed. This Government is working harder than any other Government to lift Pacific wellbeing by collaborating across agencies and the community; having dedicated, targeted funding; and trusting Pacific peoples to provide innovative educational solutions—far better than that lot when they were in Government.

Question No. 10—Energy and Resources

10. to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does she stand by her statement in 2018, “We have around 10.5 years of gas … This has been the number that it has been for the last 20 years … Nothing has changed. The member needs to realise that there is 100,000 square kilometres off the coast of New Zealand that is available for exploration”?

Yes. I do note that since 2018, when I made that comment, the industry has indicated that it will relinquish 80,000 square kilometres of acreage because it is not commercially viable or exploration has come up with dry wells. It is important to note that these exploration permits—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Can I just say that both for Minister Carmel Sepuloni and for this Minister there has been a lot of attempting to shout them down. I don’t want to reflect on some of the reasoning behind that, but it doesn’t look good.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: It is important to note that these exploration permits do not feature in calculations of either our 2P or 2C reserves, otherwise known as our forecast reserves. The most current reserves estimates as at January 2020 still have us at 10 years.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Does she view it as a good thing that since she made that statement all of New Zealand’s exploration permits outside of Taranaki have been relinquished, which has moved New Zealand from 100,000 square kilometres to 20,000 in less than three years?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Exploration permits are just that: they are exploration permits. Companies take them on and explore them in a speculative manner. They do not know if they are going to find any wells. I point the member to some of the largest areas of acreage that have been relinquished, like the Great South Basin, which is connected to the fact that dry wells were drilled. There simply was not the gas there. We have to face the reality that in fact there has not been an offshore oil or gas find that is commercially viable in New Zealand since 2000. We have not seen an onshore viable gas find in New Zealand since the early 2000s. The reality that we have to face as a country is that we have to prepare for a future that is beyond fossil fuels.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Why has the Gas Industry Co. begun a project to consider what liquefied natural gas imports are required for dry year electricity generation in New Zealand?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: What the Gas Industry Co. have begun doing at my request is considering what needs to be done as we go through a transition that brings it more in line with the kind of transparency in arrangements that we have within our electricity system. What we know is that we are subject to tightness and contracting that occur in the gas market that we don’t see in the same way in the electricity market, and that we must make sure that our regulatory processes are right for the transition that we, as many other countries, must go through.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: Has she seen advice from the Gas Industry Co. that New Zealand needs $300 million to $500 million every three to five years to produce existing reserve, and what impact does she believe the oil and gas ban had on our ability to attract such investment?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I receive weekly advice from the Gas Industry Co. It is something that I follow very closely, and I meet with them regularly. But in terms of the member’s statements, both today and throughout the week, trying to connect the current tightness that we are seeing in the gas market to policy changes that we made to stop further exploration permits, they were actually found last year to be false claims by an independent agency—that you cannot connect them. In terms of bringing production online, you’re looking at at least a lead time of seven years—potentially up to 22, as you saw with the Kupe field.

💬 Barbara Kuriger: How does she reconcile her response to questions in the House, “Methanex has just signed a contract through to 2029 … the sky isn’t falling in.” with recent news Methanex will close its Waitara Valley plant after “being unable to secure sufficient gas supplies”?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The situation that we’re seeing with Methanex and the Waitara plant is actually the way in which the gas market usually responds to contractual tightness in the market. In fact, I look to 2008 to 2013, when that same plant, Waitara, was downscaled due to gas availability around the Māui downgrade. So this is not an unusual way for the market to respond.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order, Mr Speaker. During the back and forth around the first answer to the primary question by Dr Woods there, you made what was clearly a reference to—essentially, accused the front bench of the National Party of some sexist behaviour. Yesterday, I note Peeni Henare essentially made an animal noise at one of the female members of the National Party, and it went completely unpunished, so I’m just questioning here, really, the standards.

💬 SPEAKER: I think the noise, which I didn’t recognise as an animal noise—the out-of-order noise that was made—resulted in a question being gained by the National Party. It was punished, but I am going to make it very clear that I will indicate to the House when I am unhappy with the amount of shouting down either of Ministers or of my deputy or assistants. I just make the point that there has been one thing that has been in common with the people who have been shouted down.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Point of order, Mr Speaker. You’ve now, over a number a weeks—and I got kicked out of the House for it—made personal remarks about members on this side of the House. It’s simply not right, and I ask you, as a senior member of this Parliament, to stop doing it.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I’m going to ask the member to leave the House.

Hon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber.

Question No. 11—Customs

11. to the Minister of Customs: What is Customs doing to support the recovery of the New Zealand economy from the impacts of COVID-19?

In addition to their border management role, Customs makes a contribution to the recovery of the New Zealand economy from the impacts of COVID-19 through its economic recovery programme. Customs is helping to kick-start the economy by supporting the Government’s trade recovery programme through work on free-trade agreements and APEC 2021, by progressing work on the Secure Trade Lane with Australia, and by expanding its Secure Exports Scheme. Customs has helped 370 businesses recover from financial hardship through repayment plans and instalment arrangements for customs duties.

💬 Ginny Andersen: What is Customs doing to expand the Secure Exports Scheme?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: Already supporting 133 New Zealand exporters, Customs is actively boosting the scheme, making it available for exporters who use airfreight and small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) who may be ready to expand their export footprint. Customs is working directly with Māori businesses to respond to their exporting needs through this scheme, and making it easier for businesses to join the scheme. Customs is working to make members of the scheme succeed offshore through agreements with other countries, with eight of New Zealand’s top 10 export markets now recognising the Secure Exports Scheme.

💬 Ginny Andersen: How will the Secure Exports Scheme support businesses during the economic recovery from COVID-19?

💬 Hon MEKA WHAITIRI: As a member of the Secure Exports Scheme, New Zealand exporters benefit from less delay at international borders, reduced fees and costs, and support when there is trade disruption. They can also benefit from recognition by customers and Government agencies as a secure, trusted trader. Major markets such as China and the United States provide border clearance benefits to members. The New Zealand Institute of Economic Research has assessed that the international recognition of the scheme provides annual benefits of US$310 million in GDP to the New Zealand economy.

Question No. 12—Building and Construction

12. to the Minister for Building and Construction: Does she stand by all her statements and actions regarding the construction sector?

Yes, especially when I thank the members in this House for their support of the Building (Building Products and Methods, Modular Components, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill last night.

Tim van de Molen: What steps has she taken, if any, to address the worker shortage being experienced right now in parts of the construction sector?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I’m going to ask the member to relate that to a statement or action that the Minister has done.

Tim van de Molen: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It’s asking what steps she’s taken, which is an action.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, reinterpret it to say, “whether she has taken steps”—all right?—“and, if so, what?”

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We have progressed the Construction Skills Action Plan to build capacity and capability in the construction workforce. This is also why we’re progressing the Construction Sector Accord, a genuine partnership between industry and Government, and that’s working to fix many of the issues and challenges facing the construction sector. I’d note also that more than 100,000 learners have signed up for the free vocational training and apprenticeships, under the Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund.

Tim van de Molen: So who is right: the Hon Grant Robertson, who stated, in relation to the workforce, his ability to deliver shovel-ready projects that the construction sector can absorb; or Watercare and City Rail Link, who say travel restrictions and significant local competition in the labour market are problems and they need a managed isolation and quarantine quota to bring in workers from Sydney?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member has got to relate the question to the member’s responsibility.

Tim van de Molen: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was directly in relation to the worker shortage that’s been perceived and stated by numerous players in the industry and whether it can be met or not. Right now, there is a shortage, and the Minister has given an indication of a number of plans for the future, but not now.

💬 SPEAKER: And the member has given comments from the Minister for Infrastructure and some unrelated party, which may or may not be consistent but for which this Minister does not have responsibility.

Tim van de Molen: Will she commit to advocating for her industry by supporting an immediate trans-Tasman travel bubble to secure the skilled workers desperately needed for the construction sector?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I am an advocate for the building and construction sector, a sector that I’m very proud to represent as Minister. With regards to the second part of that question, it’s probably a matter for Ministers who are in charge of immigration and those exemptions.