Oral Questions

1. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, particularly more recently the Government’s response to accept and implement the recommendations of the tripartite Holidays Act task force to simplify the Holidays Act and provide sick leave, bereavement leave, and family violence leave from their first day of employment. Already we’ve had support from Business New Zealand and the Employers and Manufacturers Association, who welcome the news that the Holidays Act will be overhauled because of the long-term benefits to business, and who were closely involved in the work to clarify the existing Holidays Act.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why has the prison population fallen 10 percent in the last 12 months while violent crime has increased 14 percent?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: A lot of that work in the early stages, as the member will know, hasn’t necessarily been just about legislation through this House, but, in fact, better managing remand. Remand is where we were seeing a high number of prisoners. It was causing quite dangerous situations in our remand prisons, so the Minister of Corrections has worked really closely with the Minister of Justice and the Minister for Courts to improve the throughput through our courts to try to reduce down that remand population.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Then why has violent crime increased by 14 percent?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course, there are a range of issues that exacerbate violent crime in our communities, but the suggestion that because we have dealt with things like remand and so on, that has somehow contributed to an increase in violence crime—I would reject that premise.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So what new powers will be given to the police under its new Operation Tauwhiro?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m welcoming the opportunity to speak to that programme, because the leader of the ACT Party made mention of it yesterday. Really, I’d describe it as being in two parts, one of which was not referenced yesterday, and that’s the greater emphasis on search warrants and investigations to shine a light on organised crime and focus police enforcement attention on organised crime. This is something that’s been made possible, of course, because of the additional recruitment that we’ve had: more front-line policing, more dedicated police resource into organised crime. Alongside, however, that response, we have also seen, under the initiative of the police, to try to have some effect on the supply side for gangs, so addressing issues that cause members of our community to join gangs and trying to build greater resilience against that, as well.

💬 David Seymour: Why didn’t the Prime Minister make reference to the increased emphasis on search and surveillance in Operation Tauwhiro yesterday?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member was quite clearly making an attack on the preventative side, and I addressed that.

💬 David Seymour: Or is it the case that the Prime Minister just didn’t know, at that point?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member clearly is in favour of one half of the programme but not the other half of the programme. The member attacked one part of the programme; I defended that part.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why does the police Resilience to Organised Crime in Communities work programme have no focus on reducing organised crime, but instead talks a lot about people getting used to living with gangs?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I addressed the issue of the existence of gangs in the first part of the question, in referencing the fact that it does have an enforcement side around dealing with existing gangs, whilst at the same time trying to work with communities to stop our young people joining them in the first place. It’s also useful to reference that just today, we’ve had an example again of some of the work that’s been done to make considerable confiscations and arrests relating to organised crime. We’ve seen a significant, record-levels amount, for instance, of methamphetamine that has been located as part of our organised crime work over the last year.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: If you’re taking it so seriously, then why has the—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will start her question with a question word.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Sorry—OK, sure. Why does the police transnational organised crime in New Zealand strategy 2020-2025 have three objectives, none of which seeks to reduce the number of people participating in organised crimes?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is a given that if you’re going to combat organised crime, you don’t want people to participate in it, and, as I’ve just said, you can’t have it both ways. On the one hand, we have a programme that seeks to address the fact that people are joining it, which the members are attacking, whilst at the same time trying to arrest those who are involved in criminal behaviour already within organised crime. If the members opposite wished to take the issue of organised crime seriously, I would’ve hoped that they would’ve supported the increased penalties around the illegal use of guns in this country, the increase in penalties for drug offences in this country. Members on that side voted against both.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Then why has her Government so far refused to give police firearm prohibition orders so they can take the guns off gangs, instead targeting law-abiding New Zealanders?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The premise of the member’s question is incorrect. We are already working on that issue, and if the member were serious about it, then the National Party would have supported the legislation we put through the House under the last term in office on gun issues. If the member was even more genuine, as the Minister of Police she would not have seen a decrease in police numbers.

💬 Hon Stuart Nash: Is it true that when the Leader of the Opposition was a Minister of Police, police numbers actually fell, and yet in the first term of this Government, police numbers increased by over 1,300?

💬 SPEAKER: The member could’ve probably dressed the question up in a way that was within the Standing Orders; he didn’t.

Question No. 2—Finance

2. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Yesterday, the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research (NZIER) released its prediction for the March quarter. It is forecasting a V-shaped recovery, with business and consumer confidence recovering. The construction sector is leading the charge in the recovery, with that rebound flowing through to stronger demand in supporting industries. NZIER had predicted in June 2020 that, for March this year, forecast growth would be negative 7.1 percent. Its predictions now are for positive growth of 1.2 percent.

💬 Helen White: What other reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yesterday, Stats NZ released the retail trade statistics for the December quarter. They show that the total value of retail rose 4.9 percent compared with the same quarter in 2019. Thirteen of these 16 regions show higher-value sales, with Auckland leading the increase, at 5 percent, followed by Waikato, Canterbury, Wellington, and the Bay of Plenty. This consumer confidence is a sign that people are feeling more secure about their jobs as the economy recovers.

💬 Helen White: What is the Government doing to help keep confidence in the economy up?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yesterday, applications for the COVID-19 resurgence support payment opened, and I can advise the House that, by midday today, 6,872 applications had been received, totalling a value of just over $20 million. I can also report that $6.5 million of payment has already been approved and will be paid out today.

Question No. 3—Education

3. to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and policies on education?

Yes.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he stand by his statement in the House last December, “I want all kids to be attending school regularly, and I won’t accept any target that’s below that.”?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Absolutely, yes. We do have an attendance problem in New Zealand. Student attendance in schools has been trending down since about 2015. Between 2019 and 2020, it started to turn around, but then COVID-19 came and since then the attendance challenge has continued. We need to get kids back in school. Not being in school is one of the biggest barriers to student achievement.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: What was the target for regular attendance he agreed with his ministry for the last year that they have reported on?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: That will be reflected in the annual report of the ministry. I don’t have that with me at the moment. But the key thing is we need to be doing everything we can to get every child attending school regularly. The measures are problematic—the measures are problematic. One of the issues that you have with this is if a family, and this is increasingly happening in wealthier families, take their kid out of school for an extended family holiday, such as an overseas trip—not happening so much at the moment, but has been happening—then, actually, they don’t meet the attendance criteria. On the other hand, a child that is arriving at school regularly late, potentially leaving early, may well meet the attendance criteria, and that’s not necessarily helpful. So I’d caution the member that we all need to be careful around what we regard as the most important measures here.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he not know what target he agreed with his ministry as to regular attendance?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don’t have all of the Ministry of Education’s performance targets memorised. I do recall, though, that one of the issues with the particular target the member has in mind is that it sets a particular threshold for the amount of time a student needs to be in school. That is quite a high one. And one of the challenges with that, as I’ve indicated, is that that will sometimes mean that absences that are justified or excusable are captured.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: What good does it do for a Minister to say, “I want all kids to be attending school regularly, and I won’t accept any target that’s below that.”, when he has agreed a target of just 70 percent with his ministry, when he can’t remember what that target is, and—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! No, no. The Minister’s not going to answer it. The member didn’t sit down when I called him to order. The question’s finished. The member may have a further supplementary if he wants one.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Mr Speaker, I was looking the other way. How can I have seen?

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I don’t think anyone for a long time has accused me of having a quiet voice. As I stood up, the member looked away. I considered that deliberate, and if he didn’t hear me that’s his problem. Further supplementary, Paul Goldsmith.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Well, point of order, Mr Speaker. I’d like to know how I’m supposed to judge whether you’ve stood up when I’m looking the other way.

💬 SPEAKER: By using your ears. Question No. 4—

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: No. Question No. 4, Ginny Andersen.

💬 Ginny Andersen: Thank you, Mr Speaker—

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Mr Speaker, I have another supplementary.

💬 SPEAKER: No, you don’t.

💬 Ginny Andersen: Thank you, Mr Speaker. My question is—[Interruption] My question is to the Minister of Housing—

💬 Chris Bishop: A point of order. Can I just ask why Mr Goldsmith was prevented from asking a supplementary question then?

💬 SPEAKER: Because I ruled that he would not have one, after he took a point of order which he knew was out of order.

Question No. 4—Housing

4. to the Minister of Housing: What recent announcements has she made about the Government’s transitional housing programme?

Today, along with Minister Davidson, I announced that this Government has achieved its goal of delivering 1,000 more transitional housing places, as promised under the $300 million Aotearoa New Zealand Homelessness Action Plan. Our priority as a Government has been to see New Zealanders with immediate housing needs provided with warm, dry, and safe housing. Of these additional places, 43 percent are newly constructed homes, meaning that we are housing families, but we are also increasing the total amount of housing stock available across the country. This is a Government committed to supporting our most vulnerable, and our announcement today delivers on that commitment.

💬 Ginny Andersen: Why is it important that we increase the number of transitional housing places?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: It is not acceptable to have families sleeping in cars, staying in overcrowded housing, and living on the street. Transitional housing offers a solution to those with immediate housing need. While the additional 1,000 places announced today is a great step in the right direction, we must continue to work on increasing the number of places and ensuring that we are providing those with high and complex needs the wraparound support they need to get back on their feet and into long-term accommodation. Throughout the COVID-19 response, we have shown that swift action is possible to get people off the streets and into accommodation, and we are keeping up that momentum to prevent and reduce homelessness.

💬 Ginny Andersen: How will children and young people benefit from the increase in transitional housing?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Reducing the number of children living in poverty is a key priority for the Government, and the increase in transitional housing places is a direct intervention into the lives of children and young people to ensure they are growing up in healthy and safe housing. Of the 1,000 places announced today, 605 are for families with children. This represents 605 families that will get the immediate food, welfare, health, and wellbeing support they need to live good and healthy lives. I am unapologetic that Government needs to play a big role in intervening in situations that are resulting in poor outcomes for our youngest, and the release of yesterday’s child poverty statistics show that we’re on the right track with the actions we are taking.

Question No. 5—Housing

5. to the Minister of Housing: Has the Government kept the commitment made in the 2017 Speech from the Throne to develop a “Rent to Own” scheme; if so, how many families has the scheme helped into houses since then?

In answer to the first part of the question, yes. The Speech from the Throne is delivered at the beginning of each parliamentary term and sets out the three-year work programme for the Government. At the KiwiBuild reset in 2019, I announced funding for the establishment of a progressive homeownership scheme, of which Rent to Own forms part of it. In July 2020, during our first term, I was proud to announce the launch of the first phase of that scheme with two providers. At that time, I said that the first two contracts under phase one of the programme would support 100 low to medium income families who were struggling to pull together a deposit or pay a mortgage into homeownership. Good news: to date, 133 houses have been announced, with $39 million of the allocated $45 million in the first phase already committed. Twelve families are already living in their own homes while the remainder are currently working with providers in preparation for homeownership.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she stand by her statement that the progressive—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Mr Bayly.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she stand by her statement that the progressive homeownership scheme, which has helped just 12 families, is a “game changer”, and how is it a game-changer for the hundreds of thousands of Kiwis locked out of the housing market?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Yes, it is a game-changer for those families—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Members either want to ask questions and have answers, or they don’t, and if there’s that sort of noise again, I’ll assume that they don’t.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Yes, it is a game-changer for those families that can get into a progressive homeownership scheme. I think what that member and the Opposition need to understand is this is not a conventional way of buying a house. This is not about finding a house on the internet, deciding you want to purchase it, going to the bank, getting a mortgage, and moving in. This is often about families having to deal with high levels of debt, rebuilding credit history, establishing savings history, and then getting themselves into a position where they can purchase a home. I think what we need to do is understand that this is a complex set of problems that we are dealing with. We said we would get 100 families in the first phase. We have 133 contracted.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can she confirm that the Government has issued more press statements about the progressive homeownership scheme than it has confirmed families in the scheme?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The answer to that is no, and I think—[Interruption] I do want to take a moment to say that this is not a laughing matter. This is actually a way in which we get families—for whom homeownership is otherwise cut off—into homeownership, and while that member may find that being snide and mocking is the best approach, what I would remind that member is that the party she is a member of had no substantial commitment to progressive homeownership. Over their entire nine years in Government, you could generously say 149 families were helped into progressive homeownership—that’s over nine years. In less than five months, we have 133 homes contracted.

💬 Nicola Willis: Which has been more successful: National’s First Home Grant scheme, which has helped 93,000 people into a home since being established, or her progressive homeownership scheme, which has helped 12?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I think that question belies the lack of understanding on that side of the House around what progressive homeownership is. As a Government, we are continuing with deposit assistance and grants for people to help them, assist them, to buy a home. What that member may not realise—and I’m happy to get her a briefing if she requires it—is that for the families that we are helping into the progressive homeownership scheme, simply getting a First Home Grant or a bit of help with deposit assistance is not going to open up homeownership to them; this requires more assistance. I think the sneering attitude that the Opposition are showing is part of the reason we are in the crisis we are in.

Brooke van Velden: When will the progressive homeownership scheme deliver 1,500 houses, given that at current rates it would take 73 years to deliver?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! No, the member will resume her seat. The member will ask her question in the question form and without the additional point.

Brooke van Velden: When will the progressive homeownership scheme deliver 1,500 houses, if at current rates it would take—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member finished her question.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The extrapolation that that member has done of the figures is simply incorrect. This is the beginning of the scheme. It was launched in July 2020. We said that phase one would deliver 100 places; we actually have contracted 133. We estimate, because this is a recyclable fund, over a 10 to 15 year period—of course, these are loans; they are repaid—that at current projections, over the next five years we will see the 1,500 to 4,000 rolling out. This is phase one. Phase two is the Māori iwi direct scheme, and then it is the direct scheme that will be launching through Kāinga Ora. So we are on track to deliver against the time lines that we initially sketched out.

Brooke van Velden: How many homes will the progressive homeownership scheme deliver this year?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: As I said, we already have 133 contracted. We’ve spent $39 million of the $45 million of that funding that was set aside for phase one. We will have more announcements to make very soon about more places. So we have the hundred that we initially said in the 2021 year, but then in 2021-22, our projections are that there will be another 300 that will be delivered.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: What feedback has she received so far on suggestions that having 12 families in their own homes is an unsatisfactory result?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Today I received a letter from the Queenstown Lakes Community Housing Trust, which is one of the very fantastic organisations that we are partnering with to deliver progressive homeownership. They did write to me to express their disappointment of the way this was being discussed publicly over the last 24 hours. They said the inference that 12 families is unsatisfactory shows a limited understanding of how progressive homeownership works. They talked about how having worked in the community housing sector for 14 years, they know that this is a game-changer for people and that this is opening up homeownership for people that are otherwise locked out. I think they understand that these people can’t simply draw down a grant, go to a bank, get a mortgage, and buy a house. Not everybody has that privilege.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she really think it is a good use of taxpayers’ money to have put $39 million into a scheme that has delivered just 12 houses when there are hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders unable to buy a home?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: There are several errors in the question that the member has just asked. There is $39 million of the initial $45 million in phase one that has been contracted. That will deliver 160-odd places; 133 have been announced. So that is the first error in that member’s question. Do we on this side of the House think that it is important to make sure that we are backing New Zealanders that are otherwise locked out of homeownership into homeownership? Yes, we do. We are well aware of the housing crisis and mess we were left by the previous Government, and we know there are a variety of measures, but we always said that this very expensive scheme would only help 1,500 to 4,000 families right from the outset. That is the kind of commitment that we need to open up homeownership to a broader range of New Zealanders.

💬 Nicola Willis: Why hasn’t she ensured more families could be helped into homeownership by adjusting the price caps in the First Home Grant scheme to keep up with rampant house price inflation?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We have already made a number of tweaks to the First Home Grant scheme. One very significant tweak that we made at the time of the KiwiBuild reset is we allowed that to be other than just for a couple to pool their grants and their loans abilities. In fact, we made it multigenerational, so that what we could see is particularly Māori and Pasifika families being able to pool those deposits and grants in order to get into homes. We also allowed groups of friends to pool those grants that they weren’t allowed together. We are always reviewing the caps to check that they are in line with what is required. I think the member is confused and is thinking that because we are committed to progressive homeownership, we are somehow not committed to other deposit assistance schemes. We have not only kept them up but we are making them more relevant for the 21st century.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she think it was a good use of taxpayers’ money to release a professional promotional video, including drone footage, celebrating a housing scheme that has only helped 12 families?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Yes, I do. I think this is an important story to tell. Sneering, mocking, and deriding schemes that are just getting under way is not going to allow more New Zealanders into homeownership. That kind of attitude is what got us into this mess, and failure of action for nine years by that party while they were in Government.

Question No. 6—Social Development and Employment

6. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What support has the Ministry of Social Development provided to people and families affected by recent COVID-19 restrictions?

The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) have moved quickly to ensure people and families who have been affected by recent COVID-19 restrictions have timely access to tailored support and services. We announced the short-term absence payment for businesses whose employees cannot work from home while awaiting a COVID-19 test result—that sits alongside the leave support scheme, which is for those who have to self-isolate, cannot go to work, and cannot work from home. On the ground, MSD has supported the New Zealand Food Network with coordinating the distribution of one million facemasks to food banks, women’s refuges, youth service providers, and other organisations. In addition to that, MSD, together with New Zealand Police and local iwi, have supported people in Port Waikato with the distribution of kai boxes.

💬 Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki: What specific MSD support has been put in place to support the Papatoetoe community?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: MSD set up a dedicated 0800 number specifically for the Papatoetoe High School community, which has been shared with parents and caregivers of the students. It was put in place to provide support for those impacted by the tighter restrictions, and local Work and Income case managers—as well as two local community providers—were briefed early and poised to assist. MSD has also worked with the Ministry of Education to provide the school community with fact sheets that traverse the different supports available—this was translated into multiple languages.

Anahila Kanongata‘a-Suisuiki: How many people have accessed this support to date?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: With regards to the Papatoetoe community, the 0800 line has received more than 100 calls since opening on 18 February. This dedicated phone line was initially set up for a four-day period to support the community until the school reopened. However, a decision was made for support to remain active until at least Friday, 26 February. We will continue to communicate the availability of support through the school, the community, and public communication channels like LinkedIn and Facebook. It’s important that the Papatoetoe community impacted by recent COVID cases know that there is support available, and how to access this support.

Question No. 7—Police

7. to the Minister of Police: Will Government actions reduce gang crime and gang members this year?

I thank the member for her question. Already, just today, we’ve seen the result of this Government’s record investment in police, with the successful conclusion of Operation Evansville, which resulted in the arrest of 11 people and the seizure of a dozen firearms, methamphetamine, and more than $1 million in cash, gold, high-end vehicles, and bitcoins, which have been taken out of the hands of organised criminals. Gang numbers and gang crime will only reduce when police and communities work together to disrupt gang operations and to disrupt their flow of recruits by redirecting at-risk young people away from gangs and into employment. I welcome the support of all members of this House on this.

💬 Nicole McKee: When was the Minister first made aware of Operation Tauwhiro?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: While I can’t speak to the specificity of the date, I welcome the member’s putting that question in writing, and I will get back to her. I’m very supportive of Operation Tauwhiro’s desire to ensure that not only do we deal with the impacts of organised crime but we also support the resiliency of our young people to stop being recruited into crime.

💬 Nicole McKee: How many dedicated police officers will Operation Tauwhiro deploy to address gang violence during its six-month duration?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Operation Tauwhiro is an all-of-police response to gang violence. Along with the organised crime unit and the resiliency against organised crime, this Government has put in more resource and more police to address this particular issue. Organised crime is a scourge on our country, and the whole of the police service are dedicated to reducing it.

💬 Nicole McKee: Has the Minister seen any plans for how Operation Tauwhiro will be implemented, and, if so, is she confident that it will reduce gang violence?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: More good news. For the past six weeks, police in Wairoa, supported by staff from Gisborne, Napier, and Hastings, have had a concentrated focus on quelling—[Interruption] Excuse me, if the members would like to hear the answer, I’d like to give it. Thank you.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume her seat. There’s at least one member in this House who would like to hear the answer, and it’s me, and I will hear it.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr Speaker. For the past six weeks, police in Wairoa, supported by staff from Gisborne, Napier, and Hastings, have had a concentrated focus on quelling recent gang conflicts in the area. As a result of this increased focus in Wairoa, police have made 15 gang-related arrests and have included members of both the Mongrel Mob and Black Power gangs. A further 10 were arrested on warrants. The focus is in line with the commissioner’s announcement of the nationally coordinated Operation Tauwhiro, which is focused on preventing harm and on enforcement in our communities.

💬 Nicole McKee: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I’ve asked the Minister whether she’s seen plans for Operation Tauwhiro, and I’ve heard about arrests. I’d like her to answer the question about whether she’s seen plans on Operation Tauwhiro and how it will be implemented.

💬 SPEAKER: I think the Minister can—I think all she needs to do is give us a—I know we don’t normally force people to do yes or no answers, but she was asked a pretty specific question.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Yes.

💬 Nicole McKee: Would the Minister support an amendment to the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009 to ensure it is better at targeting and limiting gang crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I think that question is better directed to the Minister of Justice.

Question No. 8—Government’s Response to Royal Commission’s Report into Terrorist Attack on Christchurch Mosques

8. to the Lead Coordination Minister for the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission’s Report into the Terrorist Attack on the Christchurch Mosques: What recent engagement has there been with the Muslim and other ethnic communities on the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain?

Al salam alaikum, Mr Speaker. As has been previously reported to this House, the Government has agreed in principle to all 44 recommendations of the royal commission. In December, the Prime Minister and other Ministers held a number of dedicated consultations with the families of the 51 shuhada and the Christchurch Muslim community. Since the end of January this year, a further 31 public hui have been held in Auckland, Hamilton, Palmerston North, Wellington, Nelson, Christchurch, Ashburton, Dunedin, and Invercargill with Muslim communities and other faith and ethnic communities. A number of additional meetings have occurred with organisations such as the Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand and the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand. I’d like to put on record my gratitude to all of those who have attended hui and joined the conversation, including members from both sides of this House and in particular the member asking the question, who attended all but one of the hui.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: What feedback has been received from the engagements?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: We heard that members of our Muslim and ethnic communities love New Zealand and are proud Kiwis, but we heard that we as a society have to do more before many can truly feel safe and included. Significant, repeated themes that came through in the meetings included the lack of diversity at senior levels in the Public Service and the consequence of that in relation to culturally inappropriate consultation; the need to equip principals and teachers in our schools with the tools and cultural competence to better support children from our ethnic communities; the distress Muslim people feel about how they see their community repeatedly depicted in the news media; the need to build awareness that police endeavour to record all of the complaints based on discriminatory or hateful behaviour that they receive; and the need for Government to better explain why we have national security and intelligence agencies. Officials are in the process of aggregating all the feedback that has been received from these hui, and this will be reported on the website of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

💬 Ibrahim Omer: Will there be any further engagements?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Yes. The engagements to date are just the beginning, and, in fact, further face-to-face hui with the Taranaki Muslim community are scheduled for this weekend. In line with the royal commission’s recommendations, the Government will establish, firstly, a collective impact board to work with relevant agencies and non-Government organisations to facilitate coordinated access to ongoing recovery support for the affected whānau, survivors, and witnesses to the attack, and, secondly, an implementation oversight advisory group to engage on and monitor implementation of all of the recommendations. The Government is also committed to engaging with Māori, Pasifika, rainbow, and disability communities and, in the end, all New Zealanders. Anyone who wishes to provide input at any time can do so from today or at any time by emailing rcoi@dpmc.govt.nz.

Question No. 9—Police

9. to the Minister of Police: Does she stand by her commitment to achieve the Striving Towards 1800 New Police initiative; if so, when will she achieve this initiative?

Yes. This Government has invested $450 million in police since we came to office. We’ve already delivered our initial commitment of 1,800 new police officers and are well on our way to meet our growth target of 1,800 over five years. As a result of this Government’s investment, the total police workforce is the largest it has ever been, surpassing 14,000.

💬 Simeon Brown: Does she stand by her statement “low attrition numbers in recent years meant less of a need for … recruits.”, and how does she reconcile this with a 48 percent increase in gang membership since Labour came to office?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: What I do agree with—

💬 SPEAKER: No—order! The member will resume her seat. There’s got to be a relationship between the parts of the question.

💬 Simeon Brown: Point of order—speaking to the point of order, or point of order. The question was around low attrition numbers. It was a direct quote related to the fact that the 1,800 hasn’t been achieved yet.

💬 SPEAKER: No, the attrition numbers are fine. It’s the last bit of the supplementary question which doesn’t relate, which the member was able to relate, to either the primary question or the primary answer.

💬 Chris Bishop: Point of order. The supplementary question had two legs, asking the Minister to reconcile two particular contradictory facts. The Minister is more than capable of answering that, and—

💬 SPEAKER: I’m absolutely clear that the Minister is capable of answering it. The question is whether it is in order, and I have ruled that it’s not.

💬 Simeon Brown: Can I start that one again, Mr Speaker?

💬 SPEAKER: You can start another supplementary question.

💬 Simeon Brown: Oh, another one, is it? OK. Does she stand by her answer to oral questions that the Government has delivered 700 police officers focused on organised crime, and, if so, on what date did the Government deliver on the 700 focused on organised crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I stand by my statement that we are recruiting. We have recruited far more police than ever before, and part of that is an allocation of 700 directed to organised crime.

💬 Simeon Brown: Point of order. The question was: on what date did the Government deliver on it? The quote was around the fact that she says she’s delivered it, and I was asking the question: on what date did they deliver it?

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. It’s a long established practice in the House that supplementary questions will be one question, not two questions. She answered the first one.

💬 SPEAKER: Absolutely right; the member put two legs in. There’s no obligation to address both of the legs—either of them will do, and the Minister certainly did.

💬 Simeon Brown: On what date did the Government deliver on the 700 new police focused on organised crime?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: As I just answered, we have already met our targets in terms of the 1,800 new police officers, and we’re working towards our target to meet 1,800 growth. Included in that are 700 officers dedicated to organised crime.

💬 Hon Stuart Nash: Has the Minister seen reports that in the last five years of the previous National Government police numbers actually fell, and yet in the first term of this Government, 2,300—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! As I indicated to the member earlier, it’s not that hard to do a supplementary of that type and get it in order. If the member wants to get some advice at some stage, like all members of the House, he is welcome to come to my office to learn how to phrase a supplementary question, but that doesn’t do it.

Question No. 10—Economic and Regional Development

10. to the Minister for Economic and Regional Development: What advice, if any, has he received about the upcoming launch in New Zealand of a satellite that includes the “Gunsmoke-J” payload from the United States Army’s Space and Missile Defense Command?

I received advice from the New Zealand Space Agency, that resides within MBIE. The New Zealand Space Agency assessed the application against a number of criteria set out in the Outer Space and High-altitude Activities Act. The assessment process is supported by multiple Government agencies that contribute to the regulation of space-related activities. The New Zealand Space Agency processes each application on a case-by-case basis to ensure that the requirements of the Act are met. This includes an assessment that (1) the payload will be operated safely and meet New Zealand’s requirements on orbital debris mitigation; (2) the proposed operation of the payload is consistent with New Zealand’s international obligations; (3) its operations do not pose a risk to national security; and (4) its operations are not contrary to New Zealand’s national interest.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: How is his recent ministerial approval of the launch of the satellite, which may assist the US military to improve its targeting capabilities, in line with Government policy?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I just want to check. I didn’t get, in the earlier answer, that there was a ministerial approval. Was it a Minister’s approval or a—

💬 Hon Member: Yep.

💬 SPEAKER: The Minister did approve it, did he? All right. Sorry. I apologise.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Sorry, could the member please repeat—

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry, could you ask the question again.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: How is the recent ministerial approval of the launch of this satellite, which may assist the US military to improve its targeting capabilities, in line with Government policy?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I reject the premise of that question. As I outlined, the process we go through is quite clear, and one of the criteria that must be met before a Minister will sign off is that the operations are not contrary to New Zealand’s national interest.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: What specific military capabilities does the satellite he approved to be launched have?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I’m unaware of the specific military capabilities.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: How does the launch of a satellite that enables weapons of war to more precisely target people comply with the principle for authorising New Zealand space activity, approved by Cabinet in 2019—and I quote—“Space activities should be conducted in a way that does not jeopardise human safety (including the safety of people in space).”?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: What I will say is the applicant in this case provided all the information that was deemed required by our space agency to make a recommendation to me. The New Zealand Space Agency assessed the application and provided me with advice that, in fact, this satellite did not pose a risk to national security and the operations were not contrary to New Zealand’s national interest.

💬 Teanau Tuiono: Does the Minister think that the Government has a moral responsibility to make sure technologies delivered into orbit by New Zealand companies from New Zealand soil do not assist other countries’ armies to wage war?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Yes. What I will say is that when Cabinet analysed the process for signing off on satellite launches, we analysed this process very, very carefully before we signed off the relevant legislation. And one thing I will say is we take our international obligations very seriously, which is why I say that the space agency assessed that this satellite did not pose a risk to national security, nor were the operations contrary to New Zealand’s national interests.

Question No. 11—Workplace Relations and Safety

11. to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What recent announcements has he made about improving the Holidays Act 2003?

I’m very pleased to confirm that the Government has accepted all of the tripartite Holidays Act task force’s recommended changes. Employers have found the Holidays Act’s requirements hard to administer, which has meant costly fixes and employees missing out on their entitlements. The changes put forward by the Holidays Act task force will make it easier to calculate entitlements in pay, giving employees and employers certainty and transparency. Business and union representatives have reached consensus on these changes and we’re delivering on them in line with our election commitments.

💬 Marja Lubeck: On what issues did the tripartite task force reach consensus?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I’d like to thank the members of the task force, including union and business representatives, and chair Gordon Anderson, for their work. They reached consensus on 22 recommendations, including improvements like a simpler system for calculating how holiday and leave payments will be made; entitling eligible employees to bereavement leave and family violence leave from their first day of employment; giving eligible employees one day’s sick leave from their first day of employment with an additional day given per month until the minimum entitlement is reached; and removing the current parental leave override to address discrimination against parents who take time off to care for their young children. Removing the provision will mean that employees returning to work following parental leave will be paid at their full rate for annual holidays. I thank the task force members for these very helpful recommendations.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What reaction has he seen to the announcement?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The response has been extremely positive from across a range of sectors. Business New Zealand chief executive Kirk Hope said he was glad to see the Holidays Act “[that] will be finally overhauled.” The Employers and Manufacturers Association says its business members will also welcome the overhaul of the Holidays Act, and their chief executive, Brett O’Reily, said, “We’re looking forward to working further with the Government on the new Act,”. I think it is extremely positive that unions, business, and the Government have been able to sit down together to resolve these problems, which have been around for many years, and come to such positive solutions.

💬 Hon Scott Simpson: Will the Minister’s proposed new legislation include provisions to pro rata holiday and sick leave entitlements for part-time employees, and, if not, why not?

💬 Hon MICHAEL WOOD: As I just outlined, the Government is accepting the recommendations of a tripartite task force made up of employers and union interests, and those are not within the recommendations that have been provided by the task force.

Question No. 12—Building and Construction

12. to the Minister for Building and Construction: How many applications has the Residential Earthquake-Prone Building Financial Assistance Scheme had since its inception in September last year, and how much has been appropriated for the scheme?

Many apartment owners are finding themselves in difficult situations complying with the earthquake-prone building system. Since the scheme was set up last year, Kāinga Ora has continued to work with potential applicants to get borrower-ready. In the meantime, it is yet to receive any application for the Residential Earthquake-Prone Building Financial Assistance Scheme while this work is ongoing. To answer the second part of the member’s question: $10 million has been appropriated for loans under this scheme. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I know the Deputy Prime Minister might have been invited to make that interjection, but it is not at all helpful to describe members in that way.

Tim van de Molen: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Yes, thank you. The second part of the question was “how much has been appropriated for the scheme”. The Minister gave an answer to one portion of the appropriation, not to the entire appropriation for that scheme.

💬 SPEAKER: I think that’s a fair point.

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: Speaking to the point of order. I—

💬 SPEAKER: No, no. I’ve dealt with the point of order.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I note that there are additional operating expenses for Kāinga Ora operating over four years, and that’s of $3.75 million, and also $4.8 million for below-market interest rates over four years.

Tim van de Molen: What advice has the Minister sought or received about altering the criteria so that the scheme might attract at least one applicant?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: The scheme was introduced in September. Since that time we’ve had 25 expressions of interest.

💬 Chris Bishop: Yeah, but no applications—no one’s applied.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: That could be for one of two reasons. The first reason could be that—

💬 Hon Member: Useless.

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: —if the member would let me answer the question—people are waiting to get themselves borrower-ready. What I mean by that is ensuring that they have all the information that they need to complete the application. It’s still early days. The other reason may be that they’ve been able to source funds to make the changes from other sources.

Tim van de Molen: Does she think that it is a good use of taxpayer funds when 45 percent of the cost of the scheme is to service it, especially given there has not been a single application yet?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: What I think is important to note here is that apartment owners have got to comply with earthquake-prone building standards, and for some owner-occupiers, people who live in these homes, they want to have the ability to do that. We are offering them one such ability. If they have other means of doing so, that’s great. But if they don’t, they can fall back on the Government scheme.

Tim van de Molen: So does she expect this scheme to be more or less of a failure than KiwiBuild?

💬 Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I would direct, perhaps, that question to his colleague—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The time for oral questions is concluded.