Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the international view of the New Zealand economy?

Yesterday, international credit ratings agency Standard & Poor’s upgraded New Zealand’s local currency credit rating to AAA and our foreign currency rating to AA+, both with a stable outlook. Standard & Poor’s praised the Government’s handling of the pandemic, saying New Zealand is recovering quicker than most advanced economies because we have been able to contain the spread of COVID-19 better than many others. The ratings upgrade by Standard & Poor’s is recognition that the Government strategy that the best economic response to the pandemic was a strong public health response was the right one.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: How significant is this upgrade?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This is the first upgrade that Standard & Poor’s has done anywhere in the world since the pandemic. It is also the first upgrade to New Zealand’s ratings since September 2011 and puts us back in the position we were last in in 2009. While there are still challenges ahead for the economy, this upgrade shows that we’re on the right track and backs our decisions to support our people and businesses through 2020.

💬 Barbara Edmonds: Why are credit ratings important?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: These ratings are important for ensuring that the cost of our borrowing remains low. An upgrade also gives people more confidence that New Zealand is a good place to invest. Overall, the upgrade is a sign of confidence in the recovery and rebuild, and that the hard work of New Zealanders and Government decisions have put us in a strong position to recover and rebuild well.

Question No. 2—Social Development and Employment

2. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with the seven out of 10 New Zealanders who believe the Government should increase income support for those on low wages or not in paid work; if so, what actions will she take this year to increase income support?

Yes, I do agree, which is why this Government has taken action. We have invested $5.5 billion through the Families Package, which introduced the winter energy payment and the Best Start payment. We removed excessive benefit sanctions and made getting support from Work and Income more accessible, lifted benefits $25 per week and indexed them to the average wage, removed the hours test for the in-work tax credits, and invested in job training and apprenticeship programmes. From 1 April this year, those on low incomes will also see the largest increase in abatement levels in two decades and a new minimum wage rate of $20 per hour. We were seeing progress made prior to COVID-19, and while this progress is encouraging, we know that we have more work to do.

💬 Hon James Shaw: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Just in reference to the second part of the question, it was forward-looking for actions—

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member should have listened. I think there were at least two things which were dated 1 April—those are in the future.

💬 Hon James Shaw: What income support measures for families is she considering to address statistics released today showing an increase across five of the nine child poverty measures in the year to June 2020?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Statistics New Zealand was really clear that we need to look at the two years in its entirety to see evidence that is statistically significant. So if we look at that two-year period, we see, actually, we have made progress in nine areas. That’s not to take away from the fact that we need to do more. We recognise that we need to do more and we are committed to doing more. On 1 April this year, as I said, we will see the abatement threshold shift—for the first time, to this extent, in two decades. Benefits will increase more than what they previously would have because of the fact that we’ve indexed them to wages. The minimum wage going up is positive. I will say one other thing. The Statistics New Zealand information that the member talked about doesn’t take into consideration changes made after March last year, which would include benefit increases and, of course, the first time that benefits were indexed to wages.

💬 Hon James Shaw: Is she considering reforming the disability support system following the Statistics NZ finding that children in a household with at least one disabled person were over twice as likely to experience material hardship than a child living in a household with no disabled people?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It’s a relief that we have some data on disabled children in the recent statistics that have been released. The disability community have been asking for this for quite some time. So it’s the first time that we’ve been presented with this type of information. I don’t think it comes as a surprise to many of us. Anecdotally, in our own communities, we see that disabled children are often disproportionately impacted by poverty. I think we also need to take into consideration that ethnicity and disability information in this instance aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive as well, given that Māori and Pasifika have a younger profile, and therefore a younger disability profile as well. So there is more to do here, and the starting point is actually having the evidence and the data that we’ve been missing for so long.

💬 Hon James Shaw: When she says there is more to do here, what actions will she take to increase income support for families with disabled parents or children?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: All of the changes that we’ve made in the welfare system have been set up to benefit those in the welfare system, and I want to remind the House of that statistic. Fifty-one percent of those who are on benefit have a health condition or a disability of some sort or are caring for someone with a health condition or disability. So the changes that we’ve made to date—whether it be the Families Package, whether it be the increase in benefits, the indexation to wages, or even lifting abatement thresholds that will come in on 1 April so people can earn more without losing all of their benefit—will benefit the people that the member has referred to: disabled people. There is more to do and we are committed to making sure that our welfare system treats people with dignity, and addressing the income adequacy issues that come about through our welfare system. But I’m not going to pre-empt, rule in, or rule out any changes that might occur over the course of the year that haven’t already been announced.

💬 Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Can the member confirm that this is the first time since Working for Families was introduced over 15 years ago that we have seen Government policy making a sustained difference to child poverty levels and reduction in child poverty indicators against all nine measures that we use as a Government?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I can confirm that that is the case, and also acknowledging that on this side of the House, there has been significant progress made, but we are committed to making more.

💬 Hon James Shaw: Does the Minister expect the nine child poverty measures for the year ending June 2021 to show an increase, a decrease, or a mixed picture of child poverty?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think it would be premature for me to anticipate what those numbers will say. Clearly, the whole country, the whole world, was affected by COVID last year. But, as I said also, the statistics that we have been given today don’t take into account the benefit increases or the indexation of benefits to wages last year. So it is impossible for me to predict what they may look like.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Minister believe that the nine measures of child poverty will show an increase, a decrease, or a mixed picture if the Climate Change Commission’s report was to be followed by the Government, pushing up the cost of energy, transport, and housing for the poorest households?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The Climate Change Commission says the opposite.

💬 Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Can the member confirm that the Government has purposely adopted nine measures to capture the fact that some child poverty measures are relative, so, unfortunately, as median incomes increase, as they have under this Government, that means a larger group of children are captured in poverty data?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I can confirm that.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Associate Minister of Finance: What support does the Government continue to have in place to help people resolve outstanding earthquake-related insurance issues in Canterbury?

In response to outstanding issues years on from the Canterbury earthquake sequence, the Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service was established in 2018 to provide a one-stop shop for homeowners to resolve their claims. For many, the trauma of re-repairs and stress from multiple insurance claims was compounded by a system that was complex to navigate and left homeowners stranded with no options left. The service operates as a free-to-access, impartial pathway, with a single point of contact to manage cases, allowing coordination across agencies and organisations. It also provides engineering and legal expertise, as well as a wraparound support for homeowners. While there is still more to do, I’m proud to be part of a Government that is continuing to support people in Christchurch so that they can move on with their lives.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: What feedback has she received from homeowners about the Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: It’s heartening to know that 88 percent of homeowners who have used the service say that they would recommend the service to others. The service has supported 1,819 claims close to date, including 135 in December, which is the highest number to date. One claimant spoke of how “it was such a relief to have someone who understood my concerns, was able to keep it all in perspective, and had the knowledge and ability to explain each step we had to take and give me a full picture so I could understand the procedure and the repair methodology.” Another stated, “I am eternally grateful to my case manager as I was a mess when she was appointed to me, and now I’m pleased to say, although not fully recovered, I’m on the right road.” I’d like to take this opportunity to thank our people at the service for the incredible work they are doing in supporting homeowners through this process.

💬 Dr Tracey McLellan: How does the Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service relate to other Government initiatives to support Canterbury homeowners and future responses to natural disasters?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: It has been a priority for our Government to ensure that insurance claims can be settled, people’s homes can be fixed, and, importantly, people can get on with their lives. We’ve made changes to the Earthquake Commission (EQC) Act, including increasing the EQC building cap, removing cover for contents, clarifying EQC’s ability to share information, and extending the time frames EQC can accept claims. We’re also funding ex gratia payments for people with over-cap, on-sold properties in Canterbury. We established the Canterbury Earthquake Insurance Tribunal, giving access to court decisions for those with unsolved claims. We’re also introducing a suite of changes to address the findings of Dame Silvia Cartwright’s public inquiry into the Earthquake Commission, including modernising the EQC Act, putting in place a more people-centred claims system, and clarifying EQC’s role in any future natural disaster.

Question No. 4—Prime Minister

4. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s policies and actions?

Yes. In particular I stand by one of the most significant policy-driven falls in child poverty that we’ve seen in recent times—since, at least, the introduction of Working for Families by the last Labour Government. Our Families Package increased the incomes for hundreds of thousands of families with children. Over 100,000 babies’ parents received an extra $60 per week through our Best Start payment, and over a million New Zealanders get extra income every winter, thanks to the winter energy payment. Today we’ve seen the impacts of this. Under this Government, all nine poverty measures have gone down since the 2017-18 baseline year. We have lifted children out of material hardship and made a difference, but the work continues.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Are there more or less children in poverty today, overall, compared to a year ago, as described in today’s child poverty statistics?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If I’m to refer to the Statistics New Zealand report, they have signalled a decrease in child poverty against all nine measures that we use in New Zealand. Just to give an indication of what those measures capture, they capture the percentage of children who are living on 50 percent or less of the median income before housing costs, the same for after-housing costs, and they include material deprivation, which is predominantly what the Opposition tend to use as their primary measure. For material deprivation, we’ve seen 22,400 children lifted out of material deprivation. [Interruption]

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Supplementary—

💬 SPEAKER: Just before the member goes on, I’m just going to say to the Hon Willie Jackson that he is not being at all helpful when he interjects in that way, and given his line with the Prime Minister, when I give him a dirty look I think she thinks I’m giving her one. So I would prefer him just not to stimulate the Opposition in that way.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: How many of the indicators have got worse in the past year, as a measure of absolute numbers?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m going to, before I answer this question, read out a statement from Statistics New Zealand that was issued in April 2019, when the child poverty stats were referenced: “we emphasise the need to look at the general trend over time and caution against reaching definitive conclusions from reported year-on-year changes.” That is why in the legislation, which both sides of the House voted for, we adopted a baseline year—that’s 2017/18. We then measure our changes against that, and against that we’ve seen a reduction against all nine measures.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: How many indicators have got worse in just the last year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I refer the member to the legislation we all voted for, which compares against the baseline measure. Against all nine measures, we’ve seen reductions. Against an individual year, Statistics New Zealand and Bryan Perry, who we all in this House respect, caution against making judgments based on those because (a) they are volatile and (b) they don’t tell us where child poverty is actually heading.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order. Statistics New Zealand’s advice does not take away the responsibility of the Prime Minister to answer the question. The question was very specific about a passage in time, which was the last year.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Speaking to the point of order. A member cannot require a particular answer. The Prime Minister has to address the question that was asked, and in some cases, members will reject the premise of a question with an explanation.

💬 SPEAKER: I mean, some of the rules are very clear. The member can’t insist on, as the member said, a particular answer—certainly not a yes or no. And if someone says it is not appropriate to give an answer in that form and then addresses the general question, as the Prime Minister did, I think that that’s acceptable.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that point.

💬 SPEAKER: A further and different point of order, the Hon Michael Woodhouse.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well, that may be correct, Mr Speaker, but that’s not what the Prime Minister did.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, we both sat here and heard it twice. Certainly the Leader of the House and I heard one thing; if the member heard another, I will have a look at the tapes and see if we got it wrong. But I’m pretty convinced that the Prime Minister explained that it was not appropriate to look at one year and that it should be looked at in the totality of two. That to me is not that complicated.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Thank you. Is the Government still committed to achieving the legislated target of less than 10 percent of children living in low-income households by 2021 when such a target would require a 32 percent reduction over the next year?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have not changed our targets, nor our ambition, despite COVID-19 creating, of course, a challenging environment. The member will also know that we have three-year targets. On the data released today, you can see for the after-housing cost measure we’ve already reached that target with a year to spare. However, one of the more difficult targets is moving on that relative measure of before-housing costs—that is the measure that we as a Government are going to have to continue to target. Material deprivation—good progress there. We’ve seen a reduction there of over 2 percent. That is the one that we constantly get critique from the Opposition—I think they’ll be pleased to see that progress—and we are within a sampling error of hitting that target as well.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What contribution has a $6,250 increase in the yearly cost of renting a house since she became Prime Minister contributed to today’s child poverty indicators?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course we have to take any increase in housing costs against increases in incomes, be it minimum wage increases; be it increases through tax credits like the family tax credit; the introduction of Best Start, which is a form of universal payment—the first time we’ve restored that since the 1990s, and it was removed from a previous Government. That’s why we have these measures that are able to take into account what’s happened to incomes relative to housing. Interestingly there, we see the progress that’s been made on the after - housing costs measure, which demonstrates a reduction of 45,000 children in poverty on that measure.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What is her response to the following comment made by Shaun Robinson, chief executive of the Mental Health Foundation, that following his press release of 12 February criticising the Government’s lack of action on the mental health inquiry recommendations, he states, “I was told that we were going down a very dangerous road, and the only implication of that can be that there was some threat to our funding.”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I utterly reject that. Obviously, those are not my words, nor would they ever be. I consider it part of Mr Robinson’s job to raise issues of concern, because as a Government we support the role of these organisations and advocacy. I note that under the previous Government, they removed the ability to be an advocate with Government contracts.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What explanation has she or Ministers received from health officials over allegations that they tried to gag the Mental Health Foundation for criticising the Government?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Well, certainly I reject that that has come at all from any Ministers here. But as for a Minister’s direct response with his officials, then that would be a question for Minister Little. But you’ll find on this side of the House that we absolutely respect the role that organisations play advocating for improved mental health—we share the same goal.

Question No. 5—Public Service

5. to the Minister for the Public Service: What reports has he seen on trust and confidence in the Public Service?

The Public Service Commission’s latest Kiwis Count Survey shows a sharp increase in trust and confidence in the New Zealand Public Service. The survey has found that New Zealanders’ trust in the Public Service is up to 69 percent, a significant increase from the 51 percent recorded the previous year, and it is the highest result since the Kiwis Count Survey started, in 2007.

💬 Tangi Utikere: How does this compare to other recent measures of trust and confidence in the Public Service?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: More good news. The latest result underlines a number of other recent measures that underline New Zealand’s international reputation for trust and confidence in its Public Service. The Transparency International 2020 Corruption Perceptions Index ranked New Zealand first place with Denmark as countries considered to be the least corrupt in the world. The 2020 World Economic Forum Global Competitiveness Report puts New Zealand third in their measure of citizen trust, public institution governance, and long-term vision. The International Civil Service Effectiveness Index of 2019 ranked New Zealand the second-highest overall, and the highest in the world for integrity, capabilities, and procurement. Finally, the Bloomberg Covid Resilience Ranking puts New Zealand first in terms of handling the pandemic, with the least social and economic disruption.

💬 Tangi Utikere: What explanation does he have for the sharp rise in trust in the Public Service?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: It’s most likely that the Public Service’s role in responding to COVID-19 has contributed to the spike in trust and confidence in the Public Service as a whole. The public don’t always get to see the work that public servants do behind the scenes every day, and COVID-19 has given New Zealanders a glimpse of the importance of some of that work that they do. We expect future results will be more in line with the gradual upward trend in trust and confidence we have been seeing since 2007.

Question No. 6—Finance

6. to the Minister of Finance: Did he set out a clear expectation to the Reserve Bank Governor that the Funding for Lending Programme should be designed to target the productive sectors of the economy rather than further boosting lending for housing; if not, why not?

Since 1989, the Reserve Bank has had the function of formulating monetary policy independently, and this has been understood by Ministers of Finance, including Ruth Richardson, Michael Cullen, and Bill English. Having said that, my view—which I communicated to the governor as part of the consultation process—was that the Reserve Bank should consider targeting the Funding for Lending Programme for the real or productive sectors of the economy.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Why did he ignore Treasury advice to set out his expectations in writing to the Reserve Bank of New Zealand?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member’s going to just rephrase it: “did he”. There’s no authentication for that.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Did he ignore Treasury advice to set out his expectation to the Reserve Bank Governor as to the design of the Funding for Lending Programme?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I didn’t.

💬 Andrew Bayly: You didn’t? OK. When the Reserve Bank sought his endorsement to implement the Funding for Lending Programme, what conditions did he place on ensuring that the funding to banks was directed at the more productive elements of the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in my primary answer, the Reserve Bank has a longstanding operational independence when it comes to the setting of monetary policy. I gave my views about the importance of targeting during the consultation process. What the member is now suggesting is that we overturn the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 1989 and go back to good old Rob Muldoon’s view that the National Party should run monetary policy—

💬 Nicola Willis: You’re responsible.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —and fiscal policy. That got us in a power of trouble, and we don’t want to see that again.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! No. Can I just ask that interjections not be in the second person. I am not responsible for that.

Chlöe Swarbrick: What fiscal policy actions is he considering to address the vast inequality fuelling the housing crisis, as exacerbated by monetary policy intervention like the Funding for Lending Programme?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As has been covered by my colleague Carmel Sepuloni in an earlier question, we have already put a significant amount of resource in into lifting the incomes of the lowest-income New Zealanders. We know that there is more to do, and we will continue to work on issues across all of the things that we can do to reduce inequality, including in housing and in income support areas.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Under what circumstances would he set out his expectation to the Reserve Bank Governor, given house prices have increased by $120,000 over the past year?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member will be aware that the way that the Government sets out its expectations for the Reserve Bank in the case of monetary policy is through the monetary policy remit. He’ll be aware that I wrote to the Reserve Bank Governor about that late last year. The Reserve Bank Governor has written back, and, in due course, we will come to a conclusion on those matters. But the remit is the way we set out our expectations.

💬 Andrew Bayly: Does he accept that as Minister of Finance, it is his responsibility to ensure our economic policy settings contribute to the wellbeing of New Zealanders, and that an increase in house prices of $120,000 over the past year does not achieve that?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We’ve said many times on this side of the House that the rates of house price increases that we’re seeing at the moment are unacceptable. We are moving on both the demand and the supply side. On this side of the House, we acknowledge New Zealand is facing a housing crisis. It’s a pity that for nine years, the National Party denied that, ignored it, and did nothing.

Question No. 7—Arts, Culture and Heritage

7. to the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage: What recent announcements has she made about supporting creatives whose jobs have been impacted by COVID-19?

I recently announced the launch of the Creative Careers Service, a new pilot that is expected to support up to 1,000 creatives in its first two years. This service builds on the most successful aspects of the former Pathways to Arts and Cultural Employment programme, otherwise known as PACE. The Ministry for Arts, Culture and Heritage and the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) have partnered to develop the pilot for the service. The announcement of Creative Careers is part of a landmark $374 million investment in the sector, which underlines the Government’s commitment to providing both short-term relief and longer-term support so that creatives across the sector can survive, adapt, and thrive.

💬 Glen Bennett: Who will benefit from the Creative Careers Service?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Creative Careers is for MSD job seekers, recent creative graduates who are outside the benefit system, as well as creative sector workers who have had their work opportunities reduced due to COVID-19. Through selective providers in the creative sector, participants will benefit from extending their knowledge and developing skills to turn their talents into viable careers. The pilots are in Auckland, Waikato, and Nelson, and I’m hopeful that we can roll out the service nationwide if it is successful. This will help to nurture people’s creative talents across Aotearoa and support the sector to grow and thrive.

💬 Glen Bennett: What feedback has she seen regarding her announcement?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We’ve received positive feedback from across the sector, including from Antony Deaker, a Dunedin-based contributor to creative arts, who said in an interview, “I think it’s great that the Government, [the Ministry for Culture and Heritage, and the Ministry of Social Development] have again worked through a process to enable meaningful support like this at a critical time in the artist’s career, and made more widely available this time. Fantastic.”

Question No. 8—Social Development and Employment

8. to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with the 2021 Salvation Army State of the Nation Report that shows unemployment and hardship assistance have both increased compared to September 2017?

The State of the Nation Report takes into account our response to COVID-19, and clearly shows unemployment and hardship assistance has increased during the global pandemic. However, due to a robust economic response, we are doing better than we first anticipated, and in December 2020 the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) forecasts for those on main benefits were revised down. Through investments, employment programmes, and more front-line staff, we have seen increases in proactive employment engagements, with 28,139 proactive engagements last month, and in the December 2020 quarter we saw 27,000 exits off benefit into work. That was a 43.4 percent increase on the December 2019 quarter. We accept that we’ve got more work to do, but even during these challenging times we are seeing positive signs of progress.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she consider it a failure of her Government’s policies that New Zealanders have required significantly more hardship assistance in every year since December 2017, and, if not, when does she expect hardship grants will return to their pre-2017 levels?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I don’t consider it a failure to provide New Zealanders with the support through the welfare system that they are entitled to. When I came into this position, we were committed to culture change of our welfare system and ensuring that New Zealanders got access to what they legally were entitled to. That includes hardship grants for New Zealanders who need them.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she consider it a failure of her Government’s policies that more New Zealanders required emergency housing grants in every year since 2017, and, if not, when does she expect these grants will begin to reduce?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Just reflecting on the emergency housing grant, that was a measure that was introduced under the former Government when the housing crisis emerged. Our commitment is to making sure that New Zealanders who are homeless who need emergency accommodation have access to the emergency housing grant. Alongside that we are committing to an extensive build of public housing, committing to an additional 18,000 more public houses, rather than selling them off.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Is it correct that there were 123,041 New Zealanders on Jobseeker Support in December 2017, and why did this increase by over 30,000 people prior to COVID?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member talks about the raw figures of those on benefit. We’ve previously traversed this in the House. Prior to COVID, the proportion of working-age New Zealanders on benefit remained relatively stagnant, because you do need to take into consideration the population of working-age New Zealanders. We have seen a significant increase over the course of the last year due to COVID, but it is a relief that we haven’t reached the heights that had been anticipated when the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update was released, when the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Update was released, and when HYEFU was released.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: How many of the now 211,026 New Zealanders on Jobseeker Support will be supported into full-time jobs through the Government’s Flexi-wage extension in the next five months, compared to what National proposed with JobStart?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What we announced around Flexi-wage was an expansion. If we reflect back on last year, there were actually over 4,000 people that accessed Flexi-wage in 2020. We have announced a significant expansion to cover 40,000 Flexi-wage placements, but that is not the only employment initiative that we have in place. Just earlier, I talked about the introduction of our Creative Careers Service, we are still rolling out successfully Mana in Mahi, we have extended He Poutama Rangatahi, there are Jobs for Nature that have been rolled out by the Minister of Conservation, and there is a lot going on on this side of the House, alongside the investments in upskilling and training, including—I think—18,000 people that have signed up already to Apprenticeship Boost.

Question No. 9—Prime Minister

9. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s policies and actions?

Yes. I stand particularly by this Government’s economic response to the pandemic, including $14 billion that we’ve paid to support New Zealanders to make sure that they stay in employment, in particular 1.8 million workers through the wage subsidy scheme. I also stand by our unemployment rate, which fell to 4.9 percent in the December quarter, well below the OECD average; the record high number of jobs in construction; our small business loan scheme, which has benefited 103,000 businesses so far; and I want to make special mention of the Minister of Finance, as Standard & Poor’s recognised yesterday the work that’s been done by this Government in the wake of the most significant health and economic crisis of our lifetime.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister stand by making Matariki a public holiday?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes.

💬 David Seymour: Did the Government understand it could cost employers $448 million every year to make Matariki a public holiday, or did the Government know and just not care?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I certainly reject the premise of the last part of the member’s question. Of course, we constantly weigh up the impact of policies on business owners, on small-business owners. We also take into account—[Interruption]—if I may—the full advice that we receive from officials, which the member will understand because he received it in written form. We were provided with a range in terms of potential economic impact, and in the written answer to the member’s question from the Minister, he also received a note that this is “only a rough estimate.” It comes with a range of caveats. The estimate does not take into account any potential economic benefits of a new public holiday, which could include productivity gains arising from the extra rest afforded by the public holiday, increased retail and hospitality demand, and increased tourism demand.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her Government’s policy of restricting any more Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) scheme workers coming from COVID-free countries where people are desperate for income while New Zealand fruit rots on the ground due to a lack of workers?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have to say, the member’s suggestion that somehow we have specifically targeted RSE workers—we have border closures. And, in fact, relative to other areas of need, we have made specific provision to bring in a quota of RSE workers to support the horticultural sector. We’ve done that at a time when working in close collaboration with the sector to assess the peak times in which they’ll need that workforce and to support that workforce to come into New Zealand.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by her Government’s actions to tackle gangs through Operation Tauwhiro?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I support the operational decisions made by the police in the work they do on our gangs, and I also am very proud of the fact that, as a Government, we increased front-line policing to the point that police can make a meaningful contribution to tackling organised crime with a dedicated police workforce.

💬 David Seymour: Did the Prime Minister not know that Tauwhiro is te reo Māori for “to tend or care for”, or does she actually believe that violent criminals who sell P need to be tended and cared for?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What I listen to is the evidence about what is going to make a difference. If we want to make a difference to the young people who join gangs in New Zealand, we have to demonstrate that there are alternatives for them, that they can find a place to grow their potential without joining criminal organisations, and I support programmes that are evidence-based in order to prevent that from happening.

💬 David Seymour: Does she stand by the Government’s policy of rushing changes to the Local Government Act in relation to Māori wards through Parliament?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I stand by supporting local councils who are elected by their communities to make decisions, including on whether or not they support establishing Māori wards. What I do not support is a provision specifically for Māori wards and not general seats that allows just a small percentage of electors to overturn a democratic decision.

💬 David Seymour: How will that rushed action in relation to Māori wards help with terrible statistics in Māori homeownership rates, educational attainment, or poverty?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think the member is conflating the idea of having democracy that represents all of its communities with somehow being the singular thing that will make a difference across every pervasive issue that we as a House must address. But while we’re at it, I actually do think that all of these things collectively make a difference. We do have to make sure that our local government and our central government are representative of all New Zealanders, and at local government we are recognising, as councillors are, that a poor job has been done to date.

Question No. 10—Health

10. to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made on wellbeing supports for young people?

Last week, I announced $10.2 million to provide a range of youth-specific primary mental health and addiction services. This package includes five new contracts for primary mental health and addiction support available for young people, people aged 12 to 24 years, around the country. Services will be available for free and have a focus on supporting those with mild to moderate mental health and addiction needs. Young New Zealanders are a priority group for the Government to transform the approach for mental health and addiction.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: What kinds of providers will be delivering these services?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: These services are free and they’ll be offered through a range of delivery agencies, including youth one-stop shops, non-government organisations, resilient hubs, and community centres.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So how many people will these new services help, and how long will they be available?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The areas for which the funding was announced last week, which include Canterbury, Western Bay of Plenty, Eastern Bay of Plenty, mid-central North Island, and parts of Wellington—there’s about 240,000 young people in that age group I mentioned, and those who are afflicted with mild to moderate mental health conditions will now have access to mental health wellbeing supports, if that is what they need to have. Those services are available to any young person who is experiencing any type of concern about their mental health and wellbeing. Young people can access them for as long as is needed. This represents a fundamental shift from the types of services which have previously been available, which often had a very tight entry criteria and a limited number of times that the person could be seen. These contracts are for up to $10.2 million over four years. The funding is ongoing, and there’s an expectation that they will continue beyond the four-year period.

Question No. 11—Corrections

11. to the Minister of Corrections: Does he have confidence in the Department of Corrections?

Yes. There are areas where I have concerns: the treatment of two women in Auckland prison and the incident at Waikeria. Both are currently being investigated by the Office of the Inspectorate, and I’ll receive their reports on these matters in due course.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: Why does he have confidence in the department when inmates at Waikeria were placed in a 1911 building that had been previously decommissioned—a building the Ombudsman concluded was unfit for human habitation?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Because let’s go back to when the Māori Party and the National Party were in Government. The Māori Party had an Associate Minister of Corrections and they oversaw the mass incarceration of Māori. They also failed to have a Māori strategy. This Government is a Government that said that that was enough, and we need to look at alternative ways and other solutions. Those solutions have seen the implementation of a Māori strategy known as Hōkai Rangi, and have also seen the reduction of the numbers of Māori, that have been reduced by over 800 since we became Government. Therefore, what Corrections is doing is working. There are things that we do need to continue to work on, but changing the operations of a whole department will not happen overnight.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: How can he continue to have confidence in the department when he was informed in late 2019 that the old jail block at Waikeria, with its double-bunking, brown tap water, and open toilets that inmates were forced to eat food around was unacceptable and not fit for human habitation, and yet inmates continued to be treated this way under his watch?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: As I say, when the Māori Party had the Associate Minister of Corrections, those same conditions actually existed. The Māori Party actually needs to own its history and own its mistakes. Also, Corrections have come out and explained that the water in the Waikeria Prison was bore water, and bore water happens to be brown. It was tested six days a week—the same water that Corrections officers drunk. Also, the other allegations from former prisoners have come out, and they actually said that those allegations about the lack of ability to wash clothes and bedding were absolutely false.

💬 Ginny Andersen: Is the Minister aware of any publications inciting riots being distributed to prisoners?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Yes. A publication encouraging prisoners to riot, quoting a member of the Māori Party, has been distributed. I said from the beginning that politicians involving themselves in some corrections matters would only serve to embolden and encourage more events that endanger the lives of prisoners and staff. It was then—

💬 Chris Bishop: This is tawdry. This is cheap.

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: —and it is now, irresponsible behaviour. This publication is being referred to the police. And I hear the member over there saying that this is cheap. The member over there is, basically, encouraging the incitement of disorder in prisons by saying that this publication is acceptable. He is endangering the lives of corrections officers and it is unacceptable.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: Will he commission a ministerial inquiry into the treatment of inmates in the Department of Corrections facilities in response to Waikeria and yesterday’s ruling by Judge David McNaughton that inmates at Auckland women’s prison were treated in an inhumane and degrading manner?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The Office of the Inspectorate is already investigating the allegations made about the treatment of women at Auckland women’s prison, as well as the incident in Waikeria. I have been briefed on the situation and have asked Corrections for more information on the allegations made about them.

💬 Rawiri Waititi: Point of order. The question was: “Will he commission a ministerial inquiry into the treatment of inmates?”

💬 SPEAKER: There was probably some unnecessary stuff at the end. The Minister clearly said the inspector-general was already inquiring.

Question No. 12—Agriculture

12. to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by his statement this morning regarding labour shortages in the horticultural sector, “maybe just say free accommodation and see what turns up”; if so, what advice, if any, has he received to address a reported 13,500 person reduction in the horticultural workforce?

In answer to the first part of the question, yes, in the context in which it was given. Offering free accommodation is just one of many levers available to growers to attract staff. These are unprecedented times, and, as I said this morning, it’s kind of “all hands to the deck”, every initiative that growers can think of, as needed, to get people out to pick the fruit. In answer to the second part of the question, while I acknowledge there is a shortfall, I don’t agree with the member’s assessment of the shortage. I have received a number of different figures in an attempt to quantify the shortfall.

💬 Hon David Bennett: How can he say, “maybe just say free accommodation and see what turns up”, when the Government’s incentive scheme of $200 per week in accommodation supplement only attracted 54 people?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: This Government has committed to work with the industry in unprecedented times of COVID, and the list of initiatives that we have—I’d like to just run through a few of them—to assist the horticulture and viticulture sectors and others to get people: we firstly provided a six-month extension for employer-assisted work visa holders and postponed a stand-down period for low-paid essential skills visa holders. We’ve changed the working holiday visa scheme to allow holders to extend their time in New Zealand. We’ve created a New Zealand seasonal work scheme, which provides up to $3,000 for people to relocate to take up seasonal work. We’ve made primary sector vocational education and training programmes free for all learners, and we’ve launched Opportunity Grows Here, a marketing campaign to get New Zealanders into the horticulture sectors, on top of approving 2,000 Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) workers into the country—the largest border exception and managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) allocation made to any industry or sector in this country.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Did he get his Cabinet colleagues to agree to his initiative today, “maybe just say free accommodation and see what turns up”, to try to meet the needs of a $6 billion horticultural industry?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: I have to say, I did have to work very hard with the Minister in charge of MIQ and the Minister of Immigration to provide 2,000 places for RSE workers to come into the country at a time when we have thousands of New Zealanders wanting to come back home. Part of the arrangement in that deal was that the sectors and the industry would work on all options available to try and encourage New Zealanders, those returning home, those who may have been displaced—in the tourism industry, for example—to take up the seasonal opportunities in horticulture. We expect them to try everything possible to get those people in work and to get the fruit picked.

💬 Hon David Bennett: Can the Minister confirm that the provision of free accommodation in other primary industries, such as dairy, has solved their issue of labour shortages?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: The dairy industry has indeed tried hard to provide quality accommodation and incorporated that into the salary package, which is quite substantive, in an attempt to address the shortage in that sector. What I’ve said to the horticultural sectors is that the hundreds of millions of dollars which they rightfully claim has been invested in accommodation is available; is currently empty; and I would have thought, through one season which is unprecedented, it may be a good idea, to attract Kiwis, to say, “It’s free accommodation for two months this year; you can put that money in the bank.”, and next season go back to what we all hope will be a normal season.

💬 Hon David Bennett: How does the Minister reconcile the prospective losses in crops due to the shortage of staff with Labour’s campaign pledge for the primary industries, which says, “Backing the horticulture sector to seize new opportunities for growth and [to] stay ahead of … competitors”?

💬 Hon DAMIEN O’CONNOR: I have faith in the innovation of the horticulture and viticulture sectors, and, in fact, all the sectors across the primary area. The shortages projected pretty much every season by horticulture and viticulture have never fully been realised. Yes, it’s challenging for some. Some employers never have trouble getting staff; others always seem to have challenges. Yes, there is a shortage now, but, as has been said by people in the paper today out of Martinborough, we’re just going to have to work together to get through this challenge to make sure that we don’t waste the opportunities.