Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy in the context of the global COVID-19 pandemic?

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. This morning Stats New Zealand released the latest labour market statistics for the June quarter, showing that the labour market is weathering the immediate impacts of COVID-19 better than expected. Stats New Zealand said that New Zealand’s unemployment rate in the June quarter, which includes the period that the economy was in lockdown, was 4 percent, down from 4.2 percent in March. This compares to Treasury’s Budget forecast for the unemployment rate to hit 8.3 percent in June. This is a good result, but we have to be aware that the full impact of COVID-19 is yet to be felt. The increase in the underutilisation rate and the number of people indicating they had stopped looking for work due to COVID-19 are both signs of the impact. But the good news was that the number of people in employment fell by only 0.5 percent during the quarter and was up 1.2 percent from a year ago. While we’ve always been clear that things will be more difficult in the face of a one-in-100-year shock in the September quarter, today’s data shows that the Government’s plan to protect jobs and cushion the blow for businesses and households has protected the labour market from the worst effects of COVID-19.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What did Statistics New Zealand say about New Zealand’s labour market data compared with international counterparts?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: According to Statistics New Zealand, New Zealand’s unemployment rate ranks at seventh in the OECD, above the OECD average of 8.4 percent and well ahead of Australia at 7 percent, and the US and Canada, both at 13 percent. In addition, our employment rate of 76.8 percent is currently fifth in the OECD, well above the average of 68.6 percent. This shows that unlike what we are seeing in many countries, the Government’s decision to go hard and early, and put the wage subsidy in place quickly while getting on top of the virus, was the right approach. The best economic approach was always going to be a strong public health approach, and this is bearing out in terms of our comparison with the rest of the world.

💬 Dr Duncan Webb: What is the Government doing to support employment in the New Zealand economy in the face of the global COVID-19 pandemic?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Treasury expects unemployment to rise further and peak in the September quarter, as the impacts of the global recession caused by COVID19 feed through to the domestic economy. Many countries are now experiencing second waves, which will lead to a deeper global recession. As part of the economic plan announced at Budget 2020, the Government is making significant investments to support New Zealanders into jobs, including free trades training to help New Zealanders get into work; providing businesses with up to $16,000 to help cover the costs of an apprentice’s first two years; boosts to He Poutama Rangatahi, Mana in Mahi, trades academies, careers advice, and the new Māori apprenticeships fund; significant new infrastructure investment, including for 8,000 new State houses and regional infrastructure projects; and support for small to medium sized enterprises to receive up to $5,000 for business advice and support them to shift into e-commerce. The Government has a comprehensive economic plan to see Kiwi workers and businesses through the crisis, and we have made the critical investments to back that up.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement regarding the Provincial Growth Fund that “this programme, in one way or another, plays a fundamental role in every element of our economic strategy”?

Yes, I stand by the speech I made on 23 February 2018 launching the Provincial Growth Fund (PGF). The Provincial Growth Fund has provided crucial investment in our regions after a decade of under-investment under the previous Government. I note that since that time, the Government has also announced a number of other initiatives that have also played a significant role in our economic strategy, including delivering our first Wellbeing Budget; a 15 percent R & D tax credit; reform of vocational education; the launching of the EU free-trade agreement and the release of our Trade for All agenda; our investment in infrastructure, including the $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme; a number of employment strategies; and the lifting of the minimum wage. That does not touch on the range of initiatives that I note the Minister of Finance mentioned in his last question.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Does she accept all of the findings of the Controller and Auditor-General’s report on managing the Provincial Growth Fund; if not, which findings does she not accept?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Auditor-General has made three substantive recommendations, one of which I note is for a review of the PGF itself, which is something that we were actually undertaking before COVID struck and do intend to complete. So all of those recommendations—all three—we will be taking forward.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Did she agree with Shane Jones’ 2018 description of the fund as a “bloody big risk”, and, if so, what specific measures did her Government take to ensure that the $3 billion fund is well managed and fully accountable in light of the Controller and Auditor-General’s finding that it was difficult—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member’s had at least three questions there—she’s allowed two.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Well, do what you want me to start again?

💬 SPEAKER: No, I don’t, because the member’s finished.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What Minister Jones was referencing is that no Government had attempted before to make such significant direct investments into regional economies in this way, and therefore that did mean that there was no model for what we were establishing. That has meant that, actually, the work that the Auditor-General has consistently done, alongside the Provincial Development Unit and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and on the PGF, has actually proven useful for us. They have produced a number of recommendations over the course of their reviews, which were in 2017 and 2018, which the Auditor-General themselves have noted departments responded positively to. There have been things that we’ve learnt along the way; that is why we will implement the recommendations that were made, but we stand by the overall principle of this programme of investments, which was to stimulate growth in our regional economies.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Does she agree with the Auditor-General’s finding that it was difficult to find evidence of how projects had fully met the normal criteria for the fund?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I believe what the member is quoting from is a specific part of the report which relates to manifesto commitments, not the entire fund itself. If the member is actually referring to another section of the report, I’d welcome the reference, but from that element what the Auditor-General was pointing out was there was a specific part of the fund that went to things like Tuia 250, the Rotorua Museum, and a sports facility in Northland, which were commitments made by us before coming into Government that were facilitated through the PGF. What the Auditor-General pointed to was whether or not those projects went through a specific PGF process or not. Our view is that all of them were still worthy investments.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So was the Auditor-General wrong?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the Auditor-General was, then, indeed, Todd McClay would be, because he supported the investment in the Rotorua Museum as well.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: What is her response to the Controller and Auditor-General’s finding that “The public is entitled to know how well the Fund has met its objectives and what benefits have been achieved for the public money spent.”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I absolutely believe that the public are entitled to know the huge benefit that comes from making investments directly in community infrastructure that are aimed at creating local jobs. One of the ways, of course, we can do that is by making sure that we have reporting and public information that allows for that. The Auditor-General themselves did say that that reporting is being undertaken, that there has been significant additional public information, that we’ve met the requirements of the Public Finance Act and completed select committee hearings, but they have asked that we do more. We’ve accepted the recommendations they’ve made, and we’ll be taking them up. Ultimately, though, I do think the response from local communities does point to the fact that they know what those projects are, they know the impact for their communities, and they support them.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Well, then, is she concerned at the finding of the Auditor-General that “given the different way these projects were considered, ‘manifesto commitments to the regions’ were in effect operating as a ‘fund within a fund’ ”, and, if not, why not?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, the member is actually referring from within a $3 billion fund actually closer to a $40 million aspect of the Provincial Growth Fund. So I just want to be clear that the Auditor-General’s comments are applying there, not specifically, and the member’s questions are slightly misleading in that regard. Coming back to that issue, though, as I have already set out, those were commitments that we made prior to the election. We happened to fund them through the PGF. I note that one of them was the Te Hiku sports centre, of which Matt King said, “Very happy to hear that the Te Hiku Sports Hub received government support to get it off the ground. This is great news for the Kaitāia community.” Similar was said by Todd McClay, who was in support of the Rotorua Museum, which also was supported through that fund. And I would note that you could say roads of national significance also could have been considered a fund within a fund by the way the last Government treated them within the National Land Transport Fund as well.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to whether she considers it a rather parlous state of political affairs when people are being accused for keeping their manifesto commitments?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is a fair point to make—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can we have that question again? Because it was very hard to hear what the Deputy Prime Minister was actually saying?

💬 SPEAKER: And the bits that I heard I hadn’t quite got to the point of working out the Prime Minister’s responsibility for, but let’s go. Try again.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether or not she thinks that things have reached a rather parlous state when people are being accused in politics for keeping their manifesto commitments?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I do think it is a reasonable point to make that simply because they were things that we’d committed to that somehow they had less value or worth. That is simply not the case. In fact, they have moved towards being also emerging priorities. Northland drought relief, for instance, was one of the elements that was funded, and so was Tuia 250 because, unfortunately, not all the funding required to deliver that programme that was started by the last Government was left, and so we had to make sure it was fully funded and properly rolled out.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Why has the evaluation of the fund, originally timed for 2020, now been delayed until mid-2021 when the Auditor-General has said the evaluation is “critical, given the Fund’s ambition, size, and profile”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Auditor-General, if I recall the section correctly, also noted, however, that that work was due to be under way. The member will recall that, of course, those officials who would be involved in that work were also being redeployed and utilised in our COVID response and recovery, so there was a delay but we still intend to do that work. The member should also do well to remember the Auditor-General has looked at the PGF several times before as well, and we’ve implemented those findings too.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: How many of the 452,425 people receiving the wage subsidy extension does he expect will become unemployed when the wage subsidy expires, and what is the Government’s plan if the majority of those New Zealanders lose their jobs?

I refer the member to my primary answer to the exact same question yesterday and would like to add that I look forward to being able to continue the exchange today that was ended prematurely yesterday.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I hope that’s not a reflection on me.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is the Minister getting weekly briefings from Treasury on the state of employment during this one-in-100-year crisis?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Not only am I getting those briefings; the entire New Zealand public is, via the Weekly Economic Update available on the Treasury website.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: And what is Treasury telling him about its latest projections for the job losses following the end of the wage subsidy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: While Treasury have not yet updated their formal forecasts that were in the Budget, the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update will occur on 20 August. The member can look at weekly updates on the Treasury website.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Since there are around 67,000 more Kiwis on a benefit since before COVID, how many more does he expect to be on a benefit by Christmas?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can go back over the forecasts that I talked about yesterday that mean that in the employment numbers, which is what Treasury do forecast, they said that there would be 2.463 million in the June quarter, 2.477 million in the September quarter, and 2.523 million in the December quarter, meaning that by the December quarter there will be 246,000 people unemployed. I do, however, note that today, with the release from Statistics New Zealand, at this equivalent point, Treasury were forecasting 222,000 people unemployed, and, in fact, it’s 111,000.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Will he adopt National’s policy of allowing workers made redundant to use the tax paid on their redundancy as credit to start a new business and to have a go?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Government will not be adopting that policy, no. Individual political parties will make their announcements about policies in the election campaign. But I am struggling to keep up with the number of policies that the member has promoted that his new leader has thrown overboard—we’ve had two in two days, I think.

Question No. 4—Education

4. to the Minister of Education: What measures has the Government put in place to support employers and workers to focus on skill development during the economic challenges due to COVID-19?

Excellent news. I’m proud to report that the Apprenticeship Boost initiative begins operating today. The Apprenticeship Boost provides a subsidy of up to $16,000 per apprentice for employers of new and existing apprentices. It’ll help to keep first- and second-year apprentices employed and training towards their qualification. The boost comes on top of the extra funding to ensure that people in apprenticeships and other targeted areas of training don’t have to pay fees up until the end of 2022. Supporting employers and their apprentices now will mean that New Zealand continues to build a strong pipeline of skills that we will need to support our economic recovery.

💬 Jan Tinetti: What indications has he seen that these policies are having a positive impact on people taking up apprenticeships?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: This is very good news. I am advised by the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation that it had 2,145 apprenticeship sign-ups in July—double the number it had in July last year. The Primary Industry Training Organisation has advised of a doubling of its July sign-ups this year from last year—from 160 to 380. Even more dramatic though, the Skills Organisation, which covers areas like electrical and plumbing apprenticeships, has gone from 129 starts in July last year to 538 in July this year—a 317 percent increase. I’m advised that industry training organisations have been careful in checking through with new employers that they are committed to supporting their apprentices through their whole apprenticeship journey, and they have confirmed that they are.

💬 Hon Willie Jackson: What other support for apprenticeships comes into effect today?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: An excellent question. I am advised by the very good Minister of Employment that the expanded Mana in Mahi scheme comes into effect today, with the support that employers are being offered doubling from 12 to 24 months dependent on the employee’s training pathway. These changes will also better support a wider range of people, including workers of all ages who may have to retrain due to the economic impacts of COVID-19. Mana in Mahi has exceeded targets each year to put people into employment and for more training since it started in 2018, and I want to congratulate the Minister of Employment for his leadership in that area.

Question No. 5—Regional Economic Development

5. to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Does he agree with all of the findings of the Controller and Auditor-General’s report, Managing the Provincial Growth Fund; if not, what findings does he disagree with?

Page 7, recommendations, yes.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The question wasn’t about the recommendations; it was about the findings—all of the findings in the report—and he hasn’t addressed that.

💬 SPEAKER: I think the member asked for something that the Minister disagreed with, and he’s given something. You don’t make a recommendation if it’s not based on a finding, and if the member says that the recommendation is wrong, he probably almost certainly thinks that the finding was, as well.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well, speaking to that, there are a plethora of findings; there are only three recommendations. I don’t think mathematically they stack.

💬 SPEAKER: Right. Supplementary question?

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does he agree with the report’s finding that “The integrity of data about job creation is even more important now given the effect of Covid-19 on unemployment.”, and, if so, does he have confidence in the job data he announced via press release yesterday?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: Well, obviously, such data is dynamic. I think it’s important for us to bear in mind, week by week, projects are advancing and firms are being engaged. Data of this character is not static.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: If the data is dynamic—it was 10,000 last week, 13,000 this week—what’s the number today?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: Given that there’s one more question day, if you’d like to put that down in writing, I’ll go and find out from the officials.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does he agree with the statement of Auditor-General, John Ryan, that “There is some reporting on jobs, although we mention in the report that it is a very hard number to verify and to see whether it meets the requirement of the fund.”, and, if so, how is he able to issue press releases estimating the number of jobs?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: The stewardship of this fund has been driven by optimism and confidence—qualities that I exude. I think it’s very important that the member bears in mind—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Just made up.

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: —that throughout the life of the fund, the—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! The member will withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: As I was saying, the Auditor-General has been engaging with the bureaucracy over the life of the fund, and there are a host of improvements that have been secured as a consequence of the ongoing involvement of that office. As I’ve said before, the nature of the jobs number will evolve as the projects mature.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: How can the Minister be confident in his claimed number of new jobs created, when the report of the Auditor-General states the Provincial Development Unit (PDU) is still “Considering matters such as: What counts as a job”?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: As I said, it’s such a dynamic area. It’s important to bear in mind that that is a snapshot, that reflection that is in the report. The most important thing is we have continued to approve and projects are evolving. I mean, there have been lots of jobs for others, given that my office has actually answered 8,630 written questions.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister as to whether or not there have been some seriously respected businessmen and women—with a record of serious achievement, as well—associated with the PDU, and that is why $700 million only, thus far, of the $3 billion has been paid out, because it’s properly accounted for—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! I’ve been shortening the others up.

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: In the architecture and the governance of the fund, myself, the Minister of Finance, Mr Twyford, and David Parker were well and truly supported by an independent appraisal committee led by the redoubtable businessman from the South Island, Rodger Finlay. It would be very unwise for anyone in the House to cavil against a man of such mana.

Question No. 6—Tourism

6. to the Minister of Tourism: Does he stand by all his statements made yesterday regarding the tourism recovery package and travel agents?

I stand by my statements but acknowledge the tone I used has caused concern amongst the industry. I acknowledge that New Zealanders working in outbound tourism are struggling as a result of COVID19 and are doing their best to secure refunds for their customers. I also acknowledge that Kiwis working in the industry are stressed and doing their best in these uncertain times. Minister Faafoi and I have asked our officials to engage with the outbound tourism sector. We understand New Zealanders are still awaiting refunds and that agents are working through that process. We need to better understand the challenges travel agents are facing in regards to refunding customers before making decisions around Government support.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Does he stand by his answer yesterday that the reason travel agents did not receive any Government support is that they didn’t apply, they asked for too much, or they’re luring New Zealanders overseas, and, if not, will he apologise to them?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The question the member asked me was very clear: why AJ Hackett got Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme funding and outbound tourism operators did not. I stand by the answer I provided the member yesterday.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: On behalf of all of the travel agents in New Zealand who are about to lose their jobs or businesses when the Government’s wage subsidy expires, will he offer them an apology in the House today for the upset and concern he caused them yesterday as a result of his ill-chosen comments?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I’ve already said that my tone could be better and, as I’ve also said, Minister Faafoi and I have asked officials to engage with the sector. I expect they’ll come back with more information regarding the current and future state of outbound tour operators.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Is he aware that travel agents are trying to process an estimated $2 billion of refunds from 150 countries for cancelled trips of New Zealanders and that this money could be spent on domestic tourism, meaning more support for the tourism sector; and when is he going to—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Answer the first two, or either of them.

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: My job as the Minister of Tourism is to grow our tourism industry and, as a response to COVID-19, get New Zealanders taking full advantage of the domestic tourism we have here at home. That will help our New Zealand tourism businesses get through the effects of COVID-19. Their livelihood, their businesses, and the contribution tourism makes for New Zealanders are my priority. I acknowledge the role that outbound tourism operators have played and the effects they are feeling from the closure of borders because of COVID-19. That is why the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs and I have asked for options and advice on the situation.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Since he won’t take the opportunity to apologise to the sector, will he make support available from the $400 million allocated to the tourism sector in Budget 2020 to travel agents, or have all of these funds been committed, leaving agents and their employees to fend for themselves?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The fund has been totally allocated: $21 million has gone to Māori tourism, supporting 18 Māori tourism businesses; $20.2 million has gone to regional tourism organisations; $25 million has gone to concessions; $50 million has gone to events so that we can grow the number of events around in the regions and get New Zealanders visiting more regions; $10 million has gone to digital support for tourism businesses; $20 million has gone to the inbound tour operator loan scheme; and $311 million has gone to over 120 strategic tourism assets to make sure that when the borders do reopen we have a tourism industry for people to visit.

Question No. 7—Social Development

7. to the Minister for Social Development: What work-focused initiatives has the Government implemented to improve the support offered through the welfare system?

We invested an additional $59.6 million into industry partnerships, which includes initiatives like our partnership with Auckland Council and partnership with Turners and Growers; $12.5 million towards strengthening employment services for disabled people; $12 million into supporting offenders into employment. We invested in 263 more work-focused case managers to increase our work-focused engagements. We’ve rolled out employment zones and hubs across a number of Ministry of Social Development (MSD) sites. We have enhanced our online offerings so that people looking for work can more easily access the support they need, and MSD implemented and expanded Mana in Mahi to support people to find and stay in work while gaining a qualification—thanks to Minister Jackson for his leadership on this. These are just some of the work-focused initiatives that MSD has led over the past three years. There are more, in particular more investments and initiatives that have been put in place due to COVID.

💬 Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki: Pātai tāpiri. How has the Ministry of Social Development supported people to find and stay in work in response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We supported employers to keep people in jobs by administering both the wage subsidy and leave support schemes, supporting more than 1.7 million jobs. We bolstered our capability to respond by investing $250 million into income and employment support staff, including an investment into 500 more front-line staff. We initiated rapid response teams across the hardest-hit regions to coordinate employment, redeployment, and income support. We broadened our product offering, establishing a free Keep New Zealand Working online recruitment tool and initiating a rapid return to work service for people coming on to benefit. We committed $150 million to provide more employment support products like Flexi-wage and pre-employment training, and today announced an additional $54 million towards this.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! That is excessive.

💬 Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki: Pātai tāpiri. Why has this approach been important?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Supporting people into work is a central part of our welfare system and has been a priority for our Government, even prior to COVID-19. That meant we were in a strong position when COVID hit. However, New Zealand will not be immune to the global headwinds and ongoing impacts of COVID. We have not been, and cannot be, complacent. Our approach has seen Kiwis getting into work despite the challenging circumstances. June this year saw 2,000 more exits off benefit and into work than June 2019. It is important to keep in mind that MSD is not the only agency focused on jobs. Multiple agencies and Ministers are working in collaboration with businesses, unions, local government, and NGOs to keep New Zealand working.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Chris Bishop.

💬 Chris Bishop: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I was just going to draw your attention, Mr Speaker, to Speaker’s ruling 179/8, about replies being concise, and this is not the first instance—

💬 SPEAKER: And the member knows well that he’s not allowed to, and, frankly, that’s getting disorderly.

Question No. 8—Transport

8. to the Minister of Transport: What components, if any, of the Recommended Programme of Investment for Let’s Get Wellington Moving were not included in the final Indicative Package announced by him on 16 May 2019, and why were those components not included?

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I’d like to note the Opposition’s endorsement of our Government’s Let’s Get Wellington Moving projects after two years of opposing them. Our Government is taking a balanced approach. We believe in integrating road, motorways, public transport, walking, cycling, and rapid transit, which is the only lasting solution to congestion. I know that the member was disappointed that the extra Terrace tunnel and the undergrounding of Te Aro were not included, but the Ministry of Transport calculated that those two projects alone would cost $1.8 billion—nearly a third of the cost of the package that our Government is getting on with delivering.

💬 Chris Bishop: Like Melling.

💬 Nicola Willis: We’ll get it done.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Mr Bishop—the other member may wish to have a supplementary, but she needs to stand up and call.

💬 Chris Bishop: Has he seen recent reports of congestion caused by the closure of the Terrace tunnel in Wellington, and will he now look at advancing plans to duplicate the Terrace tunnel?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I have seen reports of congestion, but, as I said to the member in my earlier answer, the Terrace tunnel and the trenching of State Highway 1 at Karo Drive would have cost an extra $1.8 billion. This Government has committed itself to a $6.4 billion integrated transport project for Wellington City. To add additional projects, as the member seems to want to, would actually be tantamount to taking transport funding from other regions. Now, the member has promised $31 billion of transport spending over and above—over and above—the $46 billion our Government has already fully funded. He needs to tell the people of New Zealand how he is going to pay for it.

💬 Chris Bishop: Has he received advice on the benefits to Wellington of the Te Aro undergrounding project, and why is this project not part of the indicative package he’s announced for Let’s Get Wellington Moving?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, it is an interesting project, but I have to say that the benefit-cost ratio, if I recall correctly, doesn’t even break one—it doesn’t pay for itself—and, actually, if the member wants to be the Minister of Transport one day, he’s got to understand that, actually, transport is all about choosing priorities. You can’t just go out there and promise $31 billion without telling New Zealanders how you’re going to pay for it.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Minister, when he used the phrase “endorsing projects”, does he mean announcing projects that the Government’s already planned, paid for, and has under way, and can he give us an example of one?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, it was very touching to hear the Opposition announce that they’re going to build the Ōtaki to north of Levin expressway, a project that we have fully funded and committed to and are already doing the work on—and already doing the work on.

💬 Chris Bishop: That member cancelled it.

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: That’s very touching—no, the work is under way. It’s actually happening. The geotechnical investigations are under way as we speak. But our Government has very prudently set aside $14 billion of the COVID recovery budget allowance. The Opposition has already spent that twice over, and that’s just on transport.

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, just in relation to that last answer, does he accept that the Ōtaki to north of Levin project, like the Melling interchange project in the Hutt Valley, were both projects re-evaluated following the $5 billion cut to the State highway budget, only to be brought back after National Party pressure?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, unless you believe in the resurrection, you can’t bring back a ghost road.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Kia orana e Te Vaa Tuatua. What recent announcements has he seen about Wellington regional transport projects?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, I’ve seen two that are worth mentioning. It’s great to see the National Party finally coming to the party and committing to upgrades and safety improvements in the Wairarapa that are currently being designed under this Government. It was also good to see them finally catch up and commit to the big New Zealand Upgrade Programme that we announced in January, including the Ōtaki to north of Levin expressway that’s fully funded, and rail upgrades north of Wellington that are also fully funded under this Government. I want to congratulate the Opposition on finally announcing—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! I was hoping the member might come to something that he had responsibility for, but he didn’t.

💬 Nicola Willis: Kia orana. Will he commit to breaking ground on a new Mount Victoria tunnel by 2023, or is he content to delay this congestion-busting project for a decade or more?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, obviously I reject the premise of that question. There’s no delay. Our Government has committed and fully funded a second Mount Victoria tunnel, unlike the former National Government, who for nine years did nothing in Wellington, except try to impose a giant concrete flyover on Wellingtonians, and they failed at that.

💬 Brett Hudson: How does the Government’s decision to not implement or to delay the components of the Let’s Get Wellington Moving recommended programme of investment from Ngauranga through to Te Aro benefit residents of Wellington’s northern suburbs?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, the Let’s Get Wellington Moving project, it’s true, does actually make a major investment in integrated transport projects in Wellington City, but it sits alongside a major programme of investments that this Government has made, not only Ōtaki to north of Levin: the Melling interchange, safety improvements at State Highway 58, and the Ōtaki to north of Levin expressway. The Wellington region is seeing far more money and far more attention under this Government than it ever did under nine years of National.

Question No. 9—Health

9. to the Minister of Health: How is New Zealand prepared for a second coronavirus wave, and how are recent community surveillance testing numbers a part of that preparation?

New Zealand’s now gone 96 days without any evidence of community transmission of COVID-19, but we cannot afford to be complacent. The virus continues to rage around the world. We’re putting huge effort into containing it at our border, but we’re also preparing for possible new cases in the community. On 15 July, the Prime Minister and I set out the framework for our ongoing approach, with its focus on containing and stamping out any new cases. Central to that is the continuing work we are doing to constantly strengthen our testing and contact tracing capability. We currently have the capacity to process around 13,000 tests a day, but that could surge to up to 23,000 tests per day if needed. We’d also see further use of pop-up testing surveillance sites, like the one that we saw in Queenstown yesterday, which gathered more than a thousand samples in a single day.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: When the Director-General of Health describes a second coronavirus wave in New Zealand as “not if, but when” and “inevitable”, when does current modelling suggest the timing of that second wave and how will reinfection likely occur?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: There is no specific timing. I think the director-general is stating the obvious: that we cannot be complacent. This is something that the Prime Minister, myself, every Minister of the Government, the director-general, and all of the health experts who comment on COVID-19 have all been saying—that we must be prepared for the fact that a second outbreak of COVID-19 could happen at any time. The secret to avoiding that becoming a big problem for New Zealand is making sure that our contact tracing system is robust, which is what the Government has been doing, so that we can isolate it and stamp it out quickly before widespread community transmission takes off.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Which of the 10 personal protective equipment (PPE) recommendations from the Office of the Auditor-General report in June have been fully implemented in preparation for a second wave?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: That work is ongoing. One of the things that I’ll have more to say about tomorrow is some of the findings around face masks; there’ll be more on that. We’ll be issuing clearer guidance around face masks tomorrow. Work has been under way to ensure that the stocks of PPE have been increased, and that work has been very successful. We’ve got very strong levels of PPE in storage now. I can say that in addition to that there is PPE available for the public to purchase, and I’d certainly encourage them to do that. As they have an earthquake preparedness kit at home, they should have a kit at home to prepare for any further outbreak of COVID-19 as well.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Which of the 14 recommendations from the Waitakere Hospital incident report in May have been fully implemented in preparation for a second wave?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don’t have that with me. If the member wants information that’s as specific as that, then he should give some indication of that in his primary question.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Which of the three critical recommendations in the Ayesha Verrall contact tracing report in May have been fully implemented in preparation for a second wave?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: All of the recommendations in the Verrall report have been fully implemented.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Has the Minister indicated in the House today that tomorrow there might be an announcement requiring New Zealanders to make greater use of face masks?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No, the announcement tomorrow will be around the conditions on which we would ask New Zealanders to use face masks. That is something that we have had a number of questions on and we’ll be providing greater guidance on that tomorrow.

Question No. 10—Climate Change

10. to the Minister for Climate Change: What announcements has he made recently highlighting the risks Aotearoa New Zealand faces as a consequence of climate change?

This week, the Government released the first national climate change risk assessment. The risk assessment sets out the risks to New Zealand in a warming world. The report identifies 43 distinct threats associated with climate change and highlights the 10 most pressing. The report tells us where we need to focus our efforts to ensure Aotearoa is resilient and ready for the future. It’s sobering, but it is a call to action.

💬 Marama Davidson: Now we know the scale of the risk, what is the Government doing to respond?

💬 Hon JAMES SHAW: We are already working on our response. The national adaptation plan, which will set out how we’ll work with communities, councils, iwi, and the private sector to create a safer and more resilient Aotearoa, is already under way.

💬 Marama Davidson: What is the legal status of the risk assessment and adaptation plan?

💬 Hon JAMES SHAW: The risk assessment and the adaptation plan are requirements of the zero carbon Act, which was passed by Parliament unanimously last year. The Climate Change Commission has the job of updating the risk assessment every six years, and the Government has the responsibility to respond with an update to the adaptation plan. The Climate Change Commission is responsible for holding the Government to account on its commitments under the adaptation plan.

💬 Marama Davidson: Does this mean we should focus all of our efforts on adapting to climate change, not reducing emissions?

💬 Hon JAMES SHAW: Absolutely not. We need to tackle the root cause of the climate crisis, which are greenhouse gas emissions from energy, transport, building and construction, agriculture, and so on. If we don’t deal with the structural causes of the problem, we will find ourselves needing to adapt to an ever more warming world. There are people in this House who say that we are too small to make a difference, but nations producing less than 1 percent of global emissions, including New Zealand, collectively make up a third of total global emissions. We have made some good progress in this term but we cannot let up. New Zealanders want to see ambitious action on climate change and need to elect a Government up to the challenge.

Question No. 11—Defence

11. to the Minister of Defence: Does he support the NZDF’s initiatives to support smoking cessation?

Short answer is yes. Service personnel are encouraged to quit smoking as part of a holistic approach to health that puts the individual at the centre of their care with the necessary tools to make healthy choices, whether those choices be around eating healthy, keeping fit, smoking, or, in fact, drinking.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Well, that rules him out!

💬 Hon Nicky Wagner: Is he aware that many New Zealand servicemen and women—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat, and I think it’s fair to say that there’s a bit of “who cast the first stone” here.

💬 Hon Nicky Wagner: Is he aware that many New Zealand servicemen and servicewomen use non-tobacco nicotine pouches in order to quit smoking?

💬 Hon RON MARK: Yes, I am.

💬 Hon Nicky Wagner: Will he then vote for my Supplementary Order Paper 562 to the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Vaping) Amendment Bill, that would keep non-tobacco nicotine pouches legal to help people quit smoking?

💬 Hon RON MARK: As the Minister of Defence, which is where my ministerial responsibility lies in this space, I take advice from the Chief of Defence Force and I read all of the recommendations that he might put to my desk. On such matters, he has put no such recommendations or policy options before me.

💬 Hon Nicky Wagner: Will he accept my recommendation?

💬 Hon RON MARK: No.

💬 SPEAKER: I thought I heard that twice then.

Question No. 12—Police

12. to the Minister of Police: Is he confident that the Government’s policies are keeping New Zealanders safe?

Thank you to the member for the opportunity to celebrate our achievements in the police portfolio. Crime prevention measures and safer communities are enhanced by record-breaking investment in front-line police numbers, which are now more than 14 percent higher than three years ago—it is the largest and most diverse police service we’ve had in our nation’s history; record-breaking investment in family harm and police assets in successive Budgets, all of which that member voted against; the seizure of over 3,000 illegal firearms in the last year and tougher penalties on gun crime, which that member voted against; tougher terrorism suppression measures through control orders for returning citizens, which that member voted against; record-breaking organised crime busts and seizures, including a staggering 1.8 tonnes of meth last year, which was three times the amount of the previous year; the introduction of the drug driving bill that the previous Government failed to deliver in nine years. I could go on, but I’ll respond with a resounding yes.

💬 Brett Hudson: How does that answer reconcile with the increase of nearly 17,500 victimisations to the end of May 2020?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: As the commissioner says, when you’ve got more police on the ground, you find more crime, because people now have confidence in actually coming to police and the fact that they’ll actually solve it.

💬 Brett Hudson: Why, when he said, “I’m saying more police on the street allows us to solve more crime.”, have victimisations increased, if more police are on the front line?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Because a lot more crime has been solved, with a lot more police on the streets.

💬 Brett Hudson: How does he explain the increase of nearly 14 percent in assault victimisations over that 12 months to the end of May, when New Zealand was in lockdown for seven weeks of that period?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: What I can explain is a record investment of police—2,250 new police are in our community thanks to New Zealand First and this coalition Government. This is a record number of new police into our communities. Thank goodness for a Government that invests in law and order.

💬 Brett Hudson: Does he consider the increase in victimisations and the increase in the number of gang members measures of success?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: What I would say about the increase in gang members is, as the commissioner said, it’s fluid, and when you get more police out there working closer with communities, you identify more bad people, so you can arrest them when they do something wrong.