Estimates Debate — Māori Affairs Sector

Members, I understand that the responsible Minister is available to speak to the Votes in Māori affairs sector volume (B.5, Volume 8). The question is that Vote Māori Development and Vote Treaty Negotiations stand part of the Schedules.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Tēnā koe e Te Whare. I am pleased to speak on Vote Māori Development for the 2020-21 Estimates debate. I would like to acknowledge the members of the Māori Affairs Committee for examining the Estimates. The committee has recommended that the Estimates for the appropriations for Vote Māori Development be accepted by the House. Can I acknowledge the Ministers—the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, Minister for Māori Development, and the Hon Peeni Henare, the Minister responsible for Whānau Ora—for appearing before our committee. We gave a thorough consideration to the Estimates.

The Estimates for Māori appropriations focused around Te Puni Kōkiri and the work that it does both as a departmental ministry, in its policy work and its regional presence right across Aotearoa, and also the non-departmental appropriations which Te Puni Kōkiri administers, which are moved out through Whānau Ora commissioning agencies and various other entities, such as in the Te Reo Māori space. These are very high-performing entities. I want to commend the work that they are doing.

The big focus of the appropriations this year was obviously the response to COVID19. We heard that Te Puni Kōkiri, along with the Whānau Ora agencies, were very active among the Māori communities and ensuring, especially when we were in alert levels 3 and 4, some tremendous work that was going on regionally through those entities and pushed right through into Māori communities. So we want to commend the work that was undertaken, with the leadership of Te Puni Kōkiri, through that period. But the work doesn’t stop there.

So, for the appropriations, there is a significant $281 million appropriation which goes across Vote Māori Development as a whole. There is, in addition to that, through the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund, additional funding. So, in sum, for 202021, over $300 million is appropriated for Vote Māori Development, and that is money that is being well spent and very carefully managed through Te Puni Kōkiri.

One of the commendable aspects of the appropriations is the consolidation of many of what were a whole lot of different smaller programmes or appropriations being consolidated into one, into a larger programme, which has given Te Puni Kōkiri a lot more focus across a smaller number of bigger areas. So that was commended by the committee, in particular the strength and focus of Te Puni Kōkiri in being a leader in policy development and being well connected through Māori communities up and down the country, and being able to use the data, the relationships that Te Puni Kōkiri has, to really be a leader in promoting Māori policy. That has been given extra strength through the Budget and through these appropriations.

Just turning to the Whānau Ora side, whilst it’s not captured in this 2020-21 Estimates, the Supplementary Estimates that will come will include a massive $136 million extra appropriation for Whānau Ora. That is hugely significant, and that will be focused on working intensively with whānau to help deal with the impacts, both near term and longer term, around COVID-19. We know that the impacts of that are being heavily felt across Māori communities, Māori whānau, through industries such as tourism, and in the regions—those that are heavily impacted. And Māori are no different. Likewise, they’re big contributors across the economic space, and that extra money through Whānau Ora over the out years, and also the extra money that is happening this year, is going to be able to support and continue the good work that is happening across the Whānau Ora space.

So, with that, I do commend these Estimates and the good work of the Ministers to the House.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I rise to have some questions, but I also just wanted to state a position in that I am disappointed that we in Māori development and Māori affairs only get a 15-minute tranche on these appropriations. I’m disappointed because the Government advertised and went big on the $900 million that was budgeted for post-COVID Vote Māori Development, and I would have expected that, as members, we would have got more than 15 minutes to be able to scrutinise and ask more questions to the Minister around the Vote Māori Development appropriations. So I just want to put it there that 15 minutes, for me, is really too short. I want to put my questions and my colleague here, Harete Hipango, will also do the same, but that leaves very little room for the Government MPs and other MPs to be able to get up and question the Minister as well.

So my questions will relate to administration management costs that have come in for the appropriation that has come through this Budget, especially around the Te Puni Kōkiri administration and management appropriation. We have in this appropriation just for Te Puni Kōkiri $73 million, including the regional offices, and I do query: is that enough, or is that not enough? Do we have too many regional offices?

Of that appropriation, there was an additional $4 million that was set aside for capital expenditure, yet within the Māori Affairs Committee meeting and in the paperwork, we saw that some of that fund was actually used to buy big-screen TVs for a number of the regional offices, and I wonder whether or not the Minister can actually put hand on heart and say that it is a good investment of Government funding to buy big-screen TVs for each of those regional offices. So that’s one of my questions: is that a good investment of Government funding into those regional offices?

My next question is around the COVID-19 appropriation and how that fitted in with the Vote Māori Development appropriation announced in the Budget. So we heard from a number of Māori businesses about the disappointment that they had of not even featuring within this appropriation. That was sad, because whilst—yes—they were included in a lot of the employment funds that came out of the Government for businesses, at the end of the day, the Māori businesses were looking at the future. They made comment around that the Budget was mainly focused on welfare and education and said that that’s OK for right now, but what about the future, and perhaps in this appropriation, the Minister missed the mark. So I want to know from the Minister, as another question of mine: why wasn’t there more investment in the Māori economy through Māori businesses?

I understand that New Zealand Māori Tourism got some funds to support Māori business, but at the end of the day, they were rushed off their feet, and you had to question whether or not staff of Māori Tourism actually had enough of that appropriation to put the people in place to actually help the needs of Māori business. That’s why I want to know why the Minister did not appropriate more in this appropriation for Māori Tourism and for Māori business, and maybe take a little bit less for other areas.

Finally, I just want to ask my last question to the Minister—and I understand the Minister for Whānau Ora is not here. But, as the senior Minister, I just want to ask the Hon Nanaia Mahuta questions around the four new Whānau Ora projects that the Minister had put aside: how that was appropriated, how was that evaluated, how were the four providers—and this may more than likely be an operational process. But, at the end of the day, the Minister would have had some input on the accountability and the process of selecting those four providers. How many others missed out on that particular fund?

So I will leave my questions there on the floor for the Minister. I may have some other questions, especially around Te Tumu Paeroa and whether or not they are still fit for purpose, especially now that iwi have their own Māori land trusts and would actually benefit more from the $11 million set aside within the Budget. So my question is what the Minister intends to do over the future of Te Tumu Paeroa as more and more iwi take over their land trusts and manage them and look after all the trust fees that are part and parcel of it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Before I call the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, can I just remind the member that it’s not appropriate to refer to the absence from the House of any other member.

Can I thank the Māori Affairs Committee for their consideration of the Estimates. We had a full and frank conversation about the range of opportunities in front of Māori communities as they look to recover from COVID. But also I want to acknowledge, for the very first time, the way in which this Government’s response to an unprecedented event, at both the central and local level, enabled iwis, Māori, to participate in a response that would be relevant to the community, that would send fair communications out about what the impact of the issues we were dealing with in relation to COVID were, and to be able to respond in a timely way. That wouldn’t have happened by accident; it was a deliberate part of the Māori response to the COVID context and enabling communities to participate.

Let me say that the points raised by the chair of the select committee, Rino Tirikatene, about the consolidation of funds—to demonstrate the point: consolidating funds into the Māori development fund enabled Te Puni Kōkiri to fund, very quickly, those organisations who were able to reach deep into their community and activate an immediate response at week one and week two of a lockdown. That was really, really important, because what we knew is that they couldn’t wait for three or four weeks to go through a bureaucratic process. It was very important for those organisations on the ground to be able to deliver, yes, care packs in the first instance, but that evolved into kai packs and then other types of supports as they understood the profile of their community but the profile of need, certainly, during the COVID period. That, I believe, is an approach that we can continue to build on in the appropriation. Around about $11 million going into Māori NGOs will help to build on the learnings as a result of our COVID experience.

The member Joanne Hayes raised an issue around the investment of capital expenditure into regional offices and big TVs. Yes, we have made that investment, because we know more and more that communities rely, because of distance, on technology to be able to access information in a timely way that can help them make decisions. So, to illustrate the point, if you go into any of the Te Puni Kōkiri offices, some of the work that we do to run workshops, alongside other Government agencies and using technology, enables whānau to be able to perhaps be in the office, use the technology to link to other services, and then workshop through solutions that would be relevant to them. There are all sorts of examples. Even when we think about whenua development and the access to the Ministry for Primary Industries, the Provincial Development Unit team, Te Puni Kōkiri, and others across the whenua network, having access to technology is not often the case in every community. So Te Puni Kōkiri does provide that particular resource.

Let me come to the support for Māori businesses, because we did make an appropriation of about $10 million to Māori Tourism, and that was to enable that organisation to work with the 500-odd small businesses who are, yes, in tourism, but they’re actually small businesses, to be able to support them during the COVID period and moving forward into a recovery.

Can I say, though, in terms of the urgent response undertaken and led by New Zealand Māori Tourism alongside the Māori Women’s Development Inc., Poutama Trust, and a few others, they had a Māori business response team. During the period of COVID, when, certainly, tourism businesses were starting to think, “Will I be able to survive this period out?”, they had immediate access to the types of supports that we would want for any business. The wider supports, however, came through the general Government announcements in relation to wage subsidies and the package of supports that were delivered, particularly targeting small to medium sized enterprises.

Two last points. In relation to Te Tumu Paeroa, can I commend Te Tumu Paeroa, who announced on the back of the loan scheme that they had a targeted scheme for Māori land owners. They contributed $10 million towards this. It was recognising the hardship that would be felt amongst some landowners as they tried to reposition or pivot their business. That was done based on an assessment of need, of Te Tumu Paeroa understanding their client base and being able to reposition their resources in a very adequate way for this time.

Lastly, while it’s not my portfolio but I am the Vote Minister, I feel that I should acknowledge the good work of both Minister Jackson and Minister Henare for their respective work and effort into increasing support for trades training, cadetships, and the like.

In the Whānau Ora space, Minister Henare supported the existing network of Whānau Ora providers, through the Whānau Ora commissioning agencies, to be able to stand up and activate supports during the COVID context and now in this recovery space. What, I add, that the committee acknowledged Minister Henare noted is that he believed that the Whānau Ora approach has not been as wide and as deep as he would like. Probably to highlight and emphasise that particular perspective is his focus on local-level commissioning where there is not a natural network of Whānau Ora providers within a community.

So I hope that provides a sense of context for the investments that we’ve made, but there’s a lot of opportunity out there to grow the Māori economy, and much of what we will be doing from this time forth will be focused on that effort.

Thank you, Madam Chair. To Minister Mahuta, thank you for being available. My first question is: does the Minister consider that 15 minutes’ allocation in the House to answer questions on Vote Māori Development is sufficient and also due regard to the Vote Māori Development portfolios? That’s my first question.

My second question, Minister, is in relation to—although this is not directly within your parameters as Minister but comes within Vote Māori Development—whether the appropriation for the Crown-Māori relations role having increased only $4.25 million, that is, from $6.75 million to $11 million, is sufficient funding to deal with the vast scope and responsibility that Te Arawhiti has across all of the Government sector agencies, on a par with the State Services Commission Vote’s allocation and responsibilities. I leave it at that at this stage.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. There was a question within the member’s previous statements just then, directed at the Minister, about the time allocation that she had to respond to these very important matters that are before this committee. I thought it would be prudent to note that the House management, of which this has been a discussion over the past several days, has very much been on both the Opposition and us in terms of our time management. The Minister has no responsibility for where these appropriations are put in terms of the prioritisation on the order list. That is very much an administrative function that I’m not sure is within the Minister’s responsibility.

Quite correct; it isn’t, and I just assumed that the member who’s just resumed her seat wasn’t aware of the processes of negotiating the time, and I didn’t really think it was a big enough omission on her part to draw it to the committee’s attention.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): A new point of order?

Thank you, Madam Chair. The member is aware of the administrative arrangements—

CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): The point of order is?

The point of order is that I put the question to the Minister in terms of deeming this a priority for answers and responses to the Vote allocation for Māori development. I think that that does have relevance and bearing with the ministerial responsibility in the allocation of time.

CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): As the assistant whip for the Government just explained, the Minister has no responsibility for it. That decision is made elsewhere and it’s certainly not within the appropriations. Any further speakers on this?

Madam Chair, I was just awaiting a response to the question. The second question to the Minister in the chair, the Hon Nanaia Mahuta, was in relation to the increase in funding for the Crown Māori relationships role and whether that was deemed sufficient and certainly on par with the State Services Commission in the scope of the responsibility.

This is within the purview of the Minister for Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti. What I can say is Te Puni Kōkiri does conduct some of the role and functions for some of the settlements in terms of ensuring that the Crown meets its obligation to report against the various Treaty settlement—I guess—requirements across Government agencies. This, the relationship that iwi continue to seek as a result of their Treaty settlements, is an ongoing relationship. I certainly believe that the Minister responsible is undertaking with diligence the role and responsibility of Government departments to implement their part of the agreements with various iwi.

So, in short, you can put any figure there but, by and large, iwi largely measure progress in a very continual way, and that’s how many of the settlements seek to enable a relationship an ongoing relationship. As that relationship evolves and matters are being addressed, no doubt the Minister may revisit the budgetary requirements in order to implement the necessary enactments.

Vote Māori Development and Vote Treaty Negotiations agreed to.

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