High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill

Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I’d just like to say to the member whose bill this is—the High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill—well done. I think, Hamish Walker, you might have had more than one bill released from the ballot, so well done on that—that’s probably the extent of the praise I’ll give on this piece of legislation. But on members’ day, it’s always good to acknowledge the work that’s gone into a bill that has been pulled from the ballot. Not everybody gets a bill pulled from the ballot, and some members, in fact, can be in the House for—

💬 Hon Meka Whaitiri: Years.

—years and not have a bill pulled from the ballot; in fact, I think the Prime Minister might be one of those people, actually. It is the luck of the draw, so well done on that.

I actually also want to start off my short contribution by acknowledging Darroch Ball from New Zealand First and his speech on this piece of legislation when it was last being discussed—otherwise known as “Daniel Bell”. I think the member Hamish Walker might have referred to him as “Daniel Bell”, so I wanted to make sure that was in the Hansard again. Darroch Ball said that this bill doesn’t address the right part of this issue and the bill demonstrates that the work hasn’t been done on this particular issue.

I want to get serious now, because it is actually a really important issue, and that is the use of lasers to create major distractions and potentially life-threatening and catastrophic effects and incidents of misuse, which have been increasing exponentially since 2014. But when I say that the work hasn’t been done, I’m deadly serious. Since there was a bill introduced and passed in this House in 2014 which provided for penalties—and that was under the member’s Government; the then National Government—the introduction of penalties for the misuse of high-powered laser pointers has failed to have any effect. Those instances have escalated dramatically and those penalties have not been applied at all, I think, in 2018-19, despite a record number of incidents.

When I say that the work hasn’t been done and that it’s addressing the wrong part of the issue—which is reflecting what Darroch Ball said—that’s the point. What this bill does, which is double the maximum penalties for the possession and misuse of the high-powered lasers to six months’ imprisonment or a fine of $4,000, and it extends the offence to be in possession in a public place to being in any possession of a high-powered laser pointer without reasonable excuse—and I note that there’s no definition of “reasonable”—is that, unfortunately, it is just putting forward a piece of legislation that just expands on the penalties and it doesn’t address the enforcement, the education, and the monitoring of how these lasers are actually entering the country or address how they’re getting into the possession of people. That is actually where the focus needs to be, and that’s the reason for the opposition to the bill. I think that’s probably the key factor.

I just wanted to make the point that I’m not just looking at New Zealand, but I’m using the UK as an example, for instance, where the Civil Aviation Authority in 2018, I think, reported more than 1,200 incidents in which lasers were aimed at aircraft making their approach to British airports. We know that this is a really serious issue, but one of the things that the UK Government did was to realise that these couldn’t be purchased in the UK. They were being brought in from overseas, so what are they doing? They’re putting additional support into local authority port teams and border officials to identify and confiscate them and to tackle the sale of unsafe pointers, including more stringent testing.

I guess that that’s the main point that I would be making tonight. It’s that that’s where the focus needs to be, rather than just on a simplistic raising of the penalties.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’m delighted to take a call on this bill and to express my wholehearted support for it. Could I acknowledge the bill’s sponsor, the fine young man on my right at the moment, the member for Clutha-Southland. I think he’s been here for 12 minutes, and he’s had two members’ bills pulled in that time. I’ve been here for 12 years, and I’m still waiting. So I must admit I am jealous, but I really want to endorse this bill. I believe it covers a very serious issue, and I’m disappointed to hear the member who’s just resumed her seat, Clare Curran, suggest that the reason for opposing it is that the work hasn’t been done, and I hope I’ll be able to dispel that. In fact, that was an argument that was also raised by the New Zealand First speaker more than three months ago now, this debate having been interrupted because of the COVID lockdown. It’s probably a good idea if I do reiterate some of the key points for the bill, because I think it’s really important. I’m very sorry that I’m no longer a member of the Justice Committee that would get to hear the bill if it attracted the support of the other parties.

It is dealing with a very serious issue, and that is the menace in our society that is posed when people who are, frankly, very thoughtless, very stupid, and who act in a very dangerous way, use laser pointers to try to get into the eyes of pilots, those who might be operating in control towers at airports, those who could be in the police helicopter, those who could be operating one of the other helicopters that we rely on for our health service, and so forth. The idea that those people who are doing such vital work could be put in danger is abhorrent in itself. But then when you think about the fact that if they’re flying a plane, every member of the crew and every passenger on the plane and everybody in the flight path is also put at risk if that particular act of utter stupidity results in a crash is beyond belief. That is why I just cannot understand why members opposite are not prepared to support this bill.

Now, I was here when my very dear friend, the former MP Cam Calder, introduced his member’s bill, which was the forerunner to this bill. Of course, what Mr Walker is now doing is seeking to increase the penalties. We’ve heard from members of the Government that they shouldn’t support the bill because it hasn’t, so far, worked. Well, I would suggest to you that there’s plenty of international evidence that other countries take this issue far more seriously and so should we. The fact that the incidence of these attacks has continued to accelerate at a rapid rate should alarm all of us and should mean that we should thoroughly endorse Mr Walker’s call for penalties that set sufficient deterrents to have an impact on those who might think that this is a bit of a joke, just a silly thing that they should do one day.

Mr Ball, the New Zealand First MP, when he spoke more than three months ago, tried to suggest that this is a bill that isn’t necessary because the penalties are already in place. Well, I want to remind him that section 270 of the Crimes Act 1961 would be amended by this particular bill to make explicit that interference with a transport facility includes using a high-power laser pointer to reduce the ability of aircraft crew to perform their duties. So his idea that this bill didn’t in any way cover that is confounded by the fact that it’s in the explanatory note on the first page of the bill. Unfortunately, I haven’t got time to go through all of the contributions that other Government speakers made, but I’m really disappointed that Labour, the Greens, and New Zealand First have all shown that they are not willing to support this bill.

We had a particularly sarcastic and, frankly, ludicrous contribution from the former secretary of the Police Association, the member for Ōhāriu, who was sarcastic and disparaging. He said, “Oh, [well, if only life was that] simple that we simply could solve a problem by doubling a sentence.” He went on to say, “The [statement] was made, ‘They’re getting away with murder.’ Well, I think that, probably to say the least, would be overstating [some] things somewhat.”, and other bizarre comments. He failed completely to address the fact that this is about sending a message that this activity is very dangerous, that it is happening at an increasing rate, that we are all at risk, that if you have a laser pointer flashed in your eyes, you’re not only momentarily blinded, it can cause headaches, it can have a long-lasting effect, and imagine being a pilot, flying a plane in those conditions.

I commend all of the speeches that were made by National Party members of the House on this bill. I think they are very good. I’d invite people to go back and read the fine speech that Mr Walker made in introducing the bill and that the Hon Mark Mitchell and that the Hon Nick Smith all made. They are very good speeches setting out why this is such an important bill. I have no hesitation in supporting it, and I urge Government members to think again about what damage they potentially will do if they fail to vote for it tonight. Give it a chance to go to select committee, at the very least.

E Te Māngai o Te Whare, tēnā koe. Ngā mema katoa, tēnā tātou katoa. Happy to take a call on the High-power Laser Pointer Offences and Penalties Bill. Despite Labour opposing this bill, can I accord my acknowledgment to the bill’s sponsor, Mr Hamish Walker, member of Parliament for Clutha-Southland. We share a common, I guess, acquaintance: a nephew of mine by the name of Sheldon Eden-Whaitiri, who, when I came into this Parliament, told me to make sure that I said hello to his friend across the House, Mr Walker. So, Mr Walker, with that, in part, let’s turn to the bill.

My colleague the Hon Clare Curran talked about the—I guess, not enough depth into this bill. I really want to address my comments into increased penalties, which is what this bill is doing. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be applied. If we just look at the New Zealand context, New Zealand Police reported only one warning—one warning—and no prosecutions for possession of high-powered laser pointers in 2019.

The other point I want to raise in the House is that most of the people that use high-beam laser pointers are, generally, children. There is some legislation—and I reference the House to the Customs Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order—which means that the Ministry of Health—you must obtain a consent to import those. So we have currently with our legislation protections around the very issue I believe Mr Walker is trying to raise in this House: keeping New Zealand safe. We have some legislation around that. But we also have both the Sentencing Act, the Summary Offences Act, and, of course, the Health Act, which this bill is attempting to amend.

The other reason why—and I had to look at the use of lasers, I guess—is not all high-power laser equipment is for the purposes that the previous speaker spoke about. Of course we would all speak against the use of those lasers if they cause harm, but we also have lasers in this country for finding faults on fibre optic cables. I mean, they obviously provide a really good use in large-scale sound and light shows, construction, surveying, measuring. So we do have them currently in our society, but the point I believe Mr Walker is saying is in relation—and he says it in his bill—in terms of aircraft crew to perform their duties.

And one of the other questions that I had with this bill was: what about trains? What about buses? What about other forms of transportation that the public are in and someone shows a laser at them and inadvertently has a crash? What happens to those movements? And so that’s why I think the bill, in supporting my colleague the Hon Clare Curran, in something as simple as describing what this bill covers, is quite limited in that it’s only covering the transportation of aircraft.

So I do add my words of support, despite acknowledging that this member has not had one member’s bill—and thank you, the Hon Tim Macindoe, for acknowledging that he’s had two and you’re still waiting. But it still doesn’t address the fact that the bill falls well short on providing some evidence. And one thing in the Justice Committee I’ve learnt: unless you can provide the evidence of where there is real harm that this is causing in the country, even referencing overseas, and we’ve got some stats around the UK—only 1.4 perpetrators, or three or four cases of 279 are prosecuted. So there’s a stat from overseas that shows that it’s not as bad an issue in the UK. But, again, I welcome the member to address the issue of evidence—evidence that requires this legislation; evidence internationally that we always accord ourselves with, be it Australia, be it Canada, be it the UK, and, unfortunately, that hasn’t come forward. And yet he will have his right of reply to this bill, but as it stands it won’t be supported by Labour, for the reasons that I’ve outlined. There’s not enough work that’s been put in it, and it’s not a deterrent to stop the actions that it’s purporting to do.

I just want to say a big thankyou to all the previous speakers on both sides of the House. To my colleague here to my left, Tim Macindoe, you may not have had a member’s bill, but good things do take time, and you’re like a good fine wine.

💬 Hon Tim Macindoe: I’m like a Clutha-Southland cheese.

Ha, ha! I just want to address a few of the previous comments from the Government members. We heard from the Hon Clare Curran, who said that the work hasn’t been done, and then she went on to reference UK examples. Well, if you look at the UK examples, the fines over there are $5,000; all I’m trying to do here is increase it from $2,000 to $4,000.

In 2014, a man was convicted and sent to jail for five months for shining a laser at a rescue helicopter. This is what this bill does—this bill is about making New Zealand safer. Put yourself in an aeroplane, hundreds of passengers on board, you’ve got highly trained pilots coming in to land, what do you think it would be like having some idiot on the ground point a laser at you? We know from listening to pilots that it can cause temporary blindness—some have reported having to lie down in the cockpit. We’ve heard from eye surgeons that it can burn people’s eyes. We heard from more pilots that it can cause headaches; some have had to, coming into land, abort to take off again.

This is a very serious matter, and it just goes to show how out of touch this Government is with New Zealanders. They’re saying penalties and fines don’t work. Well, basic Psychology 101: you need to have consequences attached to an action. This Government is soft on crime, they don’t want penalties, and they don’t want people being sent to prison for putting hundreds of lives at risk. What do they want? What are they focused on? Giving prisoners the right to vote. They would prefer to focus on giving prisoners the right to vote, as opposed to putting the safety of New Zealanders in front of politics. They are now playing politics over the safety of Kiwis, and I think that is absolutely disgraceful. Do you think a Kiwi wants someone who points a laser—a reckless, stupid act—to be punished?

I’d say most New Zealanders would agree that they don’t want to be in an aeroplane when someone on the ground points a laser at a pilot. This bill tries to deter those idiots from doing that. That’s what this bill is about. It just goes to show how out of touch this Government is by preferring to give prisoners the right to vote, as opposed to putting safety and putting people before politics. Where is the kind, caring, and compassionate Prime Minister, when she doesn’t want to deter people from putting these pilots’ lives at risk?

If we look at the overseas examples, like a few of the members have referred to, there is complete prohibition in many of those countries. We’re lagging almost at the bottom of the chain because of this soft-on-crime Government.

Let’s see what different stakeholder groups say about this bill. The New Zealand Air Line Pilots’ Association, they totally support it—New Zealand Police, eye surgeons, different medical practitioners—because they know just how bloody dangerous it is having a laser pointed in the eye. There is potential for serious crashes.

So my question to the Government is: if an accident does occur, will you all be carrying on over there like you are the moment, like singing seals? They are soft on crime. They would prefer to give criminals the vote as opposed to actually backing the police who support this bill, and the Air Line Pilots’ Association who are heavily behind this bill—and they know it. They’re all up in arms because they know they would prefer to focus on giving prisoners the right to vote—and that’s a total disgrace.