Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy since Budget 2020?

Talofa lava. Malo le soifua. Congratulations to all those celebrating Samoan Language Week this week. The New Zealand economy is facing a one in 100-year global economic shock, which is why Budget 2020’s primary focus was investing to protect and create jobs by supporting households and private businesses. Following the Budget, international credit ratings agencies Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s both highlighted the strength of the New Zealand economy and the Government’s balance sheet. Standard & Poor’s retained the positive outlook on its AA+ credit rating for New Zealand and they expect the economy to recover faster than the Budget forecast assumed, due to the earlier easing of lockdown restrictions, which the Prime Minister detailed some of, yesterday. Moody’s also maintained its AAA credit rating on New Zealand, saying the investments in the Budget would help facilitate the economic recovery. I think all New Zealanders can be proud that their actions during the lockdown, to break the chain of transmission, now mean that our economy can reopen faster and more jobs can be created.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy since Budget 2020?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The global economy faces a period of significant disruption as countries around the world struggle to reopen up their economies. Shortly after Budget 2020 was announced, the IMF’s managing director Kristalina Georgieva warned that the global economic impact from COVID-19 will be severe and that the IMF was set to revise down its forecasts for global growth next month. She said, “We strongly support the extraordinary fiscal actions many countries have already taken to boost [their] health systems and protect affected workers and firms.” She added that “These bold efforts are not only in the interest of each country but of the global economy as a whole. Even more will be needed, especially on the fiscal front.” In New Zealand, Budget 2020 got ahead of this by putting in place a plan of investments to protect workers and businesses while setting aside further money to rebuild the economy in the face of a one-in-100-year shock.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: What reports has he seen on the strength of the New Zealand economy relative to other countries since Budget 2020?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: New Zealand is in good shape to make the investments required to protect workers, grow jobs, and support businesses from the worst effects of COVID-19 compared to other countries around the world. We went into this with some of the lowest Government debt in the world, with net debt below 20 percent of GDP compared to the OECD average of around 80 percent. This means the Government is in a strong position to support the economy during this unprecedented shock. In its report on the Budget, Moody’s said it expects New Zealand’s robust fiscal position will remain stronger than most other AAA-rated countries and that New Zealand will have a more moderate debt burden and stronger debt affordability. There are tough times ahead for New Zealand and many New Zealanders, but we are well-placed to respond, recover, and rebuild from COVID-19.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: What is the Treasury’s most recent estimate of unemployment in the third quarter of this calendar year, and what is the Government’s specific plan to arrest the sorts of job losses we’ve seen over the past two weeks?

Firstly, to acknowledge Samoan Language Week I say talofa lava to the House, and I also congratulate the member opposite on his new position as Leader of the Opposition. To answer the second part first of the member’s question, we’ve gone hard and early on both our health and economic response. We are implementing our plan to respond, to recover, and to rebuild. Treasury has forecast up to 140,000 jobs saved as a result of that plan and employment growth of 370,000 jobs supported over the next four years, and that is because of a range of measures, including the wage subsidy, small business loan scheme, record investment in infrastructure, and so on. In relation to the first part of the question, forecasts contained in the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, which is, obviously, publicly available, include a high point of unemployment for the period the member asks of 9.8 percent—that is for September 2020—before returning to 6.4 percent the year following.

💬 Todd Muller: Does she accept that more direct cash support for small businesses will help prevent job losses?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I do accept that there is a role to play for Government; on that I agree. We have, of course, placed a huge amount of emphasis on the wage subsidy, not least because small business have told us what a difference that makes for them; the vast majority, of course, then going to those with 20 or less employees. And a survey, where we have just the interim results, that has gone out to those that have accessed the wage subsidy, says for the vast majority it’s made a difference to them being able to retain their staff. Of course, alongside that we have had the loan scheme, which has been well accessed as well by small business. That is interest free for the first year, and I am hearing anecdotal evidence that some small businesses are taking on that extra buffer, not necessarily because they need it immediately but just to provide that extra certainty over the next 12 months. I add to that, of course, the work that we’re doing investing in putting cash back through our tax system, through IRD, and, of course, within the Budget we also had a number of programmes around e-commerce, which I could happily go into.

💬 Todd Muller: Why has the Government not delivered any direct cash support to small businesses other than the wage subsidy or more debt to reduce the number of job losses?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would dispute the premise of that member’s question.

💬 Todd Muller: Could she please inform the House: where, over the last three months, has she provided direct cash support to small-business owners?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The wage subsidy scheme has put out—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Both sides.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —over five billion directly into small businesses, and it is the most significant part of that wage subsidy scheme. I would also add to that the work that has gone into tax loss carry-back, through IRD, that has improved cash flow as well. Many small businesses will be able to access that as well. That is just a small handful of the initiatives that we’ve put in place to help with cash flow for small businesses immediately.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is the Prime Minister saying that, unlike some, she and her Government see businesses as being not just the owner or the boss, but the staff being critical as well to any business enterprise?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: My strong takeaway from the period at which I both worked in small businesses, but also as a small business spokesperson, was that small businesses do see their staff—and I know the member will agree with this—as their family, and, in fact, the number of letters that I receive from small businesses saying the fact we prioritised the wage subsidy meant a huge amount to them because one of their biggest concerns was, of course, the ongoing cost of payroll, and hanging on to their workforce meant a huge amount to them.

💬 Todd Muller: I’ll ask the Prime Minister again. In addition to the wage subsidy, which goes directly to the workers, which is fine, what direct support has gone to the small-business owners?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would, again, re-emphasise that the wage bill for small businesses is one of the most significant costs outside, of course, things like rental costs. And keeping in mind that many businesses are now operating again, this support continues to make a huge difference for that fixed cost of their staff. Alongside that, we have, of course, through our tax system, billions of dollars enabling small businesses to access refunds now to help with cash flow.

💬 SPEAKER: Before the member goes on, I just want to remind Louise Upston that while the Leader of the Opposition is asking his series of questions, his mike is open, and her voice is coming through it very, very strongly.

💬 Todd Muller: What proportion of small to medium sized businesses over the last two months have experienced negative cash flow?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would be happy to answer, where we have the data available, such questions. Our survey work that we’ve put out may give us some insights, but what I can tell you from the interim results is that well over 80 percent have said that the wage subsidy has made a difference to them keeping their doors open.

💬 Hon Stuart Nash: Is the Prime Minister aware of the $29 million of consultancy services through the regional business partner network that has been accessed by thousands of businesses up and down this country?

💬 Hon Member: Consultancy services? That won’t pay the bills.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Absolutely, and members would not wish to be dismissive about something that we are getting incredible feedback from. Those services are providing business support and advice on the ground around payroll, around reducing fixed costs, around consultancy services to access the money that they are able to access through IRD without having to use accountants that they may not be able to afford.

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have noticed over the course of this question that you have reinstated your questions being taken off and added—that you hadn’t been in the last couple of weeks and it might just be valuable for members on all sides of the House to know you’ve reinstated your scoring system.

💬 SPEAKER: I want to thank the member to indicate to him that in the previous couple of weeks, members were generally better behaved than he’s been today.

💬 David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister agree with Treasury’s estimate that spending the full COVID-19 response and recovery fund would save about 30,000 jobs a year compared with Treasury’s baseline forecast?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Well, the member is correct that the forecasts that were relied upon in the Budget did allow for around $20 billion worth of the fund to not be spent over the forecast period. Of course, their predictions are that if the full recovery fund is spent over the forecast period, we see growth returning by next year, we see unemployment back down to the rates it was pre-COVID within the next two years. So that demonstrates that that level of investment will make a difference. Where I caution the member is, of course, we don’t want to prescribe the answer before we know what the biggest difference we can make will be with that fund. I’ve seen many commentators supporting the approach of the Government and what we’ve taken in that way.

💬 David Seymour: Does she, then, agree that this represents nearly $260,000 of taxpayer funding for each job saved?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I think that’s an overly simplistic analysis and, of course, taking into account that Treasury themselves have endorsed an approach of investing versus austerity, and of generating the kinds of jobs that the Budget package does, which is in the number of over 370,000.

💬 Todd Muller: Does she accept that businesses with high levels of debt and who are yet to receive direct cash support—other than the wage subsidy—will be most likely to be letting workers go?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, the survey work suggests that, actually, the wage subsidy has made that difference. I can see that the member is advocating for straight grants. We made a deliberate decision that that wasn’t where we were going. And let’s be just open and honest about that. Instead, we have targeted through the wage subsidy, we have used interest-free loans, and we have worked very hard to support those businesses which may be vulnerable but are viable. We’ve also said this is a one-in-100-year global pandemic. We will not be able to support and save everyone. But thus far, looking at our job seeker numbers relative to other countries, yes, we are seeing a hit, but not nearly the scale in some other places.

💬 Todd Muller: So the Prime Minister is saying to the House that what small to medium sized businesses need right now is not direct cash support—is that what she’s saying to the House: no cash support is what small business are asking?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have acknowledged that we did not implement a generic grant scheme, keeping in mind that we saw that on a small scale in Australia and they have seen a higher rate of individuals going on to their version of jobseeker than what we have. So they took a different path. They also took a month to pay out their equivalent of the wage subsidy. We got ours out the door within five days. So yes, we took a different approach, but we stand by it and it has never been about one answer. It’s been about multiple support mechanisms for small businesses, and we believe that there will be more to do. But that is the path we have chosen.

💬 Todd Muller: So what does the Prime Minister say to the businesses of Pāpāmoa and around the country who say in a single voice, “We need more cash now to survive or our people go.”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I’m speaking not only from the anecdotes that the member’s speaking to as well; I have received emails, I’ve talked to small businesses, I’ve seen the survey results. The wage subsidy—the member should not discount the impact that it has had in keeping the doors open. The member obviously advocates general cash payments. We’ve decided to be more targeted. We stand by that decision and we will continue to look for other avenues to keep up that support for small business.

💬 Hon David Parker: Can the Prime Minister confirm that sole traders receive that wage subsidy for themselves?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Absolutely. Again, 54 percent of those who have applied are made up of the self-employed; small businesses, 44 percent—so the total small business and self-employed in terms of numbers equates to 97 percent. That is vastly who has been supported. And again, as I say, interim results from those surveys but it suggests not only have they kept their door open but the vast majority have been able to prevent job loss as well, and that’s what many were seeking.

💬 Todd Muller: On behalf of the half a million small businesses in New Zealand, would the Government consider adopting National’s proposal to give businesses direct cash support in the form of GST cash refunds of up to $100,000 to help them cover their ongoing fixed costs?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I notice other members of his party have been quite dismissive during this question time of using the tax system to get cash flow to small business, so perhaps not everyone is of one voice. But again, the tax loss carry-back scheme, $3.1 billion; tax loss continuity support, $60 million; tax deductions for assets, again a massive part of our first tax package through Minister Nash. We raised the provisional tax threshold. We allowed depreciation on buildings and we also have allowed loans for R & D - intensive businesses as well. That’s before we head into the $10 million for e-commerce, the $30 million for the digital economy, and also the New Zealand Trade and Enterprise work. Again, we’ve used the tax system too.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Has the Prime Minister received any reports that the so-called throw cash at the problem $100,000 was announced by the previous leader of the National Party, whereupon they threw him out?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order!

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: What’s wrong with that?

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member knows that there’s no responsibility.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well, we’re here for politics, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: You might be here for politics, but I think you also know that you have to get some prime ministerial responsibility and neither the announcement of the previous Leader of the Opposition or what happened to him are directly the Prime Minister’s responsibility.

Question No. 3—Regional Economic Development

3. to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: How has the Provincial Growth Fund been refocused to aid the post-COVID-19 recovery?

Three particular principles have been refined: one, jobs; two, pace and time lines; and, three, visibility. Unfortunately, a number of the projects were hampered and hobbled by statutory consent problems. Those will be dealt to by David Parker when he revamps the Resource Management Act and brings a proposal back to the House, and then we’ll see about the attitude from the other side of the House. One hundred million dollars has been made available to work with regional councils and the farmers, who are looking towards the champion of the provinces to assist them with riparian planting and waterways; $60 million for rail investments and roads; and $70 million in direct response to the leaders of our local communities to address issues such as refurbishing town halls, war memorials, and, where appropriate, maraes—provided that they’re free of iwi ideology.

💬 Hon Tracey Martin: How will the projects announced following the refocusing support these goals?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: Obviously, waterway improvement is something that society, through the last election, called for loud and clear. There are sensitive waterways in areas such as the Kaipara Harbour. Regional councils have become hoarse over the previous nine years waiting for assistance, and it has now arrived through the Provincial Growth Fund. Further decisions and announcements pertaining to water quality that will augment what we’re doing are, no doubt, going to be announced in due course. Local roading projects, which do not require the long-term process of the New Zealand Transport Agency to be observed, can start with alacrity, and rail projects, given that this Government is the saviour of KiwiRail, are ready to go and are likely to create hundreds of jobs.

💬 Hon Tracey Martin: Why is this change in focus necessary for our provinces?

💬 Hon SHANE JONES: These changes will be a welcome source of relief for the breadwinners in the breadbasket of New Zealand, otherwise known as the provinces. As those areas were dependent on tourism—and we’ve seen the loss of foreign exchange earnings into the many billions—we need now to work with provincial businesses and we need to work with those stakeholders to ensure that they are able to make tough decisions that grow productivity. The framework and the relationships that we’ve created through the Provincial Growth Fund will enhance their ability to perform, and they are waiting with great anticipation for the soon to be announced $3 billion infrastructure funds.

Question No. 4—Finance

Question No. 4—the Hon Paul Goldsmith.

💬 Hon Shane Jones: Ah, “Ngāti Epsom”.

Order! [Interruption] Order! Was it one or two members who interjected? Mr Jackson as well? Both blaming each other? Both will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Hon Willie Jackson: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Shane Jones: I withdraw and apologise—“Ngāti Pāora”.

No. Look, this is a matter that’s had some publicity and it’s an error made by a member of Parliament, and my view is that it should be left there. Frankly, I would have thought that the senior member from the North—or the relatively senior member from the North looking in front of him—should know better. He will apologise again.

💬 Hon Shane Jones: I withdraw and apologise.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think it’s of some moment to anyone in this country who’s been here in their ancestry a thousand years who is Māori that people are actually identified to be either that or not. It’s not a matter of racism or anything else, but I think it’s a legitimate thing to raise in this House when someone has the, well, ignorance to say that someone is Māori and that person himself says he’s not, I think sorting it out in this House is pretty important. It may be of some embarrassment, but that’s no reason why we should avoid the silliness which I’ve seen in other countries where someone was named, as you’ll recall, Pocahontas because of a claim to be Indian. Now, if it’s still jumping around in the American political system, surely we can have our day of fun.

And I’m sure that later in the afternoon, when we get to the debate, there will be an opportunity for something which is slightly wider. In the interim, I could recommend people that they read a very good paper from the Minister coordinating race relations in about 2005, which drew attention to the indigeneity of someone from Wainuiōmata.

4. to the Minister of Finance: Does he have confidence in the Treasury’s Budget forecasts?

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Kia ora, Pāora Kōuramete. Yes, I have confidence that the Treasury undertook the same rigorous, independent process to produce the Budget forecast as it did under the previous Government. And I note that Treasury this year undertook the unprecedented step of updating its economic impact forecast closer to the Budget. I would add that most economists, from Treasury to retail banks to the Reserve Bank, have said that forecasting during a one-in-100-year global economic shock is difficult, and, as I said in the Budget speech, more of an art than a science, which is why Treasury, of course, produced three alternative scenarios alongside its central Budget forecast.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: On what basis does he have confidence in the Treasury’s forecast that the economy will generate 180,000 new jobs in the next two years?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I believe the member is quoting from the analysis by Infometrics economist Brad Olsen. He was actually comparing job creation and the unemployment rate together, which, as the member knows, is a tricky area to go into. What we do know is that the investments that the Government is making in job creation and in helping people stay in their jobs undoubtedly will add to job growth.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he agree with Professor Norman Gemmell’s observation that Treasury estimates that $62.1 billion will save 140,000 jobs—that’s nearly $450,000 per job saved?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It’s really a repeat of the previous answer: forecasting in this environment is very difficult. Norman Gemmell has been a fairly regular critic of the work of this Government, so it doesn’t entirely surprise me he’s made those comments.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he agree with Professor Gemmell’s conclusion that $450,000 per job saved sounds like an expensive trade-off?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I don’t actually agree with the premise of Mr Gemmell’s comments, let alone his conclusions.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does Treasury’s forecast that tax revenue will return to pre-COVID levels by 2022 rely on the imposition of new taxes?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No it doesn’t. The member will be aware that Treasury’s forecasts rely upon their idea of where the economy will be at at any given moment. I would note for the member that, actually, Treasury’s forecasts are more pessimistic in a number of ways than the average of the retail banks’ forecasts; so that just highlights that at the moment we are in the middle of a one-in-100-year shock, but the Government’s plans to grow jobs and keep people in jobs will stand us in good stead for growth in the future.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I follow up on the Hon Pāora Goldsmith’s question and ask whether or not it’s a fact—

💬 Hon Members: Oh, come on.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: —well, that’s his interpretation—that Treasury actually, if you know anything about Treasury, make their forecasts on existing tax law, not some futuristic, dreamt-up tax law?

💬 SPEAKER: And leaving out the out of order bit.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Pāora Kōuramete’s comments I don’t agree with. The Treasury does indeed—as the member suggests—make their forecasts based on existing policies.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Will he rule out tax increases in the next term of Government if he is fortunate enough to be the Minister of Finance?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can say that this Government’s record on taxation stands. We have made sure that over the last two months we have used the tax system to put in place measures that support the cash flow for small businesses in New Zealand and to support all New Zealand taxpayers. On that score, the Government stands by its tax policy. Future Governments will make tax policy as they see fit.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: So can he confirm that, if re-elected, he will send New Zealanders the invoice for the spending that is happening now?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No. What I can confirm is that the member’s confidence in the re-election of this Government is well-placed.

Question No. 5—Social Development

5. to the Minister for Social Development: Does she believe all her recent announcements are fair and non-discriminatory?

Mr Speaker, talofa lava. I believe the decisions this Government has made will support New Zealanders to get back on their feet after the impacts of COVID. These announcements include the COVID-19 income relief payment, which will support families who have experienced a job loss due to COVID-19; the wage subsidy, which has supported 1.6 million New Zealanders; and the $150 million we are putting into expanding the Ministry of Social Development’s employment services. Alongside this, our Government has committed to an overhaul of the welfare system to ensure it is fair and non-discriminatory. That’s why, on 1 April, we indexed main benefits to increases in wages, increased benefits, lifted abatement threshold, and removed the discriminatory sanction that penalised sole parents. Max Rashbrooke, editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, summed up his piece by saying, “the COVID-19 payments, far from being an insult to the already unemployed, are not just a sensible way to cushion the blow of a colossal economic shock: they could be a step on the way towards a welfare system that genuinely, and generously, helps us collectively insure against the social risks that are far too large for any one individual to manage.”

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Has she received specific legal advice around whether the COVID-19 income relief payment unfairly discriminates between individuals?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: To my knowledge, there is no discrimination. However, drawing distinctions in order to decide who can receive taxpayer-funded income support is an important and legitimate policy decision for any Government. We supported the job loss cover that was put in place following the Canterbury earthquakes under the previous Government. We also supported the ReStart package that was put in place following the global financial crisis. Unprecedented events call for unprecedented actions, and it’s important that we act urgently to ensure that families are looked after during this time.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does someone who lost their job on 29 February have lower living costs than someone who lost their job on 1 March, and, if not, why will they receive less money?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It’s important to note that on 1 April, indexation of main benefits came into effect. That was probably one of the most significant moves that we’ve seen with respect to the welfare system. It will also mean that they will be better off. If we look at a sole parent, for instance, they would have received an additional $10.56 from indexation, an additional $25 on 1 April from the increase in benefits, and also, if they had had a sanction applied under section 192, an additional $34, on average. We are responding to the recommendation in the Welfare Expert Advisory Group’s report to overhaul the welfare system. Alongside that, we are putting measures in place to respond to this unprecedented event.

💬 Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Can the member confirm that the income support measures that were announced yesterday were modelled on the very changes that the last Government made in the wake of the devastating Christchurch earthquakes—a policy which it now seems that parts of the Opposition no longer support?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member may answer the first part of the question.

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yes, I can. As I said, there has been a precedent of this in the past, when we have faced other situations which of course could be deemed a crisis. This one, though, I do need to say is obviously on a much larger scale. We’re not talking about one particular region—although we obviously recognise the significance of the Canterbury earthquakes—and so I think that this is the responsible action to take. I stand by it, as does our Government.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she accept that when the Government, rightly, closed New Zealand’s borders to China on 2 February, many tourism workers lost their jobs due to COVID-19, and, if so, why are they being discriminated against and not able to access the COVID-19 income relief payment?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: 1 March till 30 October is when this will be open for those that may have lost jobs because of the impacts of COVID-19. As I said also, I am relieved that this Government has taken action quickly, keeping in mind that our first response, I think, with regard to COVID was to increase benefits and double the winter energy payment. Is there more to do with respect to the welfare overhaul? Absolutely, and this Government’s committed to doing more.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she think it’s kind that someone with a permanent disability on the supported living payment will now receive less financial support from the Government than a job-ready worker with a $20,000 redundancy package and a partner earning $2,000 a week?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Can I just say that I find that quite rich, given that even when the Opposition members were in Government and they did lift benefits, they only lifted benefits for those that had children. They had no regard for those that had a disability or a health condition. When we lifted benefits on 1 April, they were for all benefit recipients. We took into consideration that, actually, 136,000 of those on benefit did have a health condition or disability, and we ensured that that benefit increase went to them as well.

Question No. 6—Social Development

6. to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has the Government made on providing financial support for people who have lost work due to COVID-19?

Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, we announced the COVID-19 income relief payment to provide support for people who have lost work since March due to the impacts of COVID-19. Like Australia, the UK, and many other countries, we can’t escape the reality that there will be job losses and people’s lives will be affected. The measures we have taken to protect jobs and help businesses stay afloat against the impacts of COVID-19 are significant, but, unfortunately, unemployment will rise before it improves. As with the global financial crisis and the Canterbury earthquakes, widespread redundancies were expected and temporary financial assistance was introduced to reduce the impact on those who lost their jobs. The COVID-19 income relief payment will help cushion the blow for families who have experienced an unexpected job loss due to the economic impacts of COVID-19. This payment is part of our next step to help New Zealanders respond and recover during these unprecedented times.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Who will qualify for the COVID-19 income relief payment?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The COVID-19 income relief payment will help reduce the negative impact of job losses on individuals and families. We know that many people who may be faced with job loss might not qualify for a benefit. In ordinary times, we’d expect many of these people to quickly find other work or manage their costs over time without additional support. However, the unprecedented times we face mean many of these families and individuals will be under pressure to get back on their feet quickly to meet their living costs but will be doing this in a different labour market than they have faced before. These are extraordinary times, and there is a growing cohort of people not eligible for the benefit but also facing the global economic impacts of COVID-19. This payment will provide a cushion for up to 12 weeks for people who have lost a job or a business since 1 March, and up until 30 October, and whose partners earn under $2,000 per week.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What feedback has she heard on the COVID-19 income relief payment?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have received support for our announcement from a diverse group of stakeholders. Business New Zealand said yesterday in their press release, “we are glad to see the Government cushioning the blow and protecting jobs where possible and supporting workers back into jobs where necessary”. The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions said they “support this initiative to really make sure that those Kiwis who are out of work are actively assisted to find new work while being financially secure.” There has also been some criticism about this payment and what this means for our welfare overhaul. I want to confirm that we are still committed to continuing our welfare overhaul and improving support for New Zealanders who interact with our welfare system. We have made significant changes to date, including indexation of main benefits and benefit increases. Is there more to do? Yes, and we are committed to continuing this work.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: Has he received any advice regarding the number of surgical procedures that did not take place as planned due to COVID-19; if so, what is his best estimate of the number of these procedures?

Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Budget 2020 included a one-off investment of $282.5 million to fund a planned care catch-up campaign following disruption caused by the COVID-19 global pandemic. That will fund an estimated 153,000 surgeries and procedures, radiology scans, and first specialist appointments over the next three years. Preliminary data suggests that approximately 8,500 elective and acute inpatient surgeries were deferred, and 11,100 minor procedures. I’m advised that the Budget 2020 funding will more than cover that level of deferred care.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does he agree with Sarah Dalton of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists, who said, “The health system will absolutely not be able to relieve the backlog in a year. No way in the world.”?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I think what we’ve seen during the COVID period is an extraordinary response from our health system. People have been willing to step up and deliver care in new ways. I expect that people will be working as efficiently as possible to deliver as much care as possible.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is he saying by the Budget numbers that there will be a net increase of 120,000 to 130,000 elective procedures next year, and, if so, why will he not publish data to confirm or refute that?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I think the member misunderstands. There are, of course, a number of components of those surgeries and procedures, radiology scans, and first specialist appointments that are accounted for in the 153,000 surgeries and procedures, radiology scans, and first specialist appointments that have been funded over the next three years by the Government in the Budget. It is a significant investment; make no mistake. Also, we do note that the hospitals are having to work in different ways—allowing more space, extra cleaning routines, and so on—because of COVID, but we are prepared to invest in our health system. It has been under-invested in for a very long time, and we will continue to invest. That is the record of this Government.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Will there be a specific quantitative target of elective procedures for 2020-2021, and if not, why not?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: We have seen more planned care for more people under this Government, and that is what we are absolutely focused on. Targets don’t treat people; well-resourced doctors and nurses treat people. Under this Government, we have 1,500 more nurses, we have 900 more doctors, and we have over 600 more allied health workers. After nine long years of neglect, the health system is getting the resources, finally, that it needs to provide the care that New Zealanders need and deserve.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: If he is so sure that as a consequence of this investment more will be done, why will he not publish the data that confirms this?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: We continue to publish data that shows more care is being received by more people. That is the record of this Government.

Question No. 8—Social Development

8. to the Minister for Social Development: Does she believe our social support system should provide enough income for all people to live with dignity?

Yes, I do agree, and that’s why this Government has already taken steps to increase income for New Zealanders. We implemented our Families Package, which was the biggest boost in household income in a decade for thousands of families. In Budget 2019, for the first time in New Zealand’s history, we indexed main benefit increases to wages, and also removed the punitive sanction 192. This year, we have increased main benefits and doubled the winter energy payment. It is important to note that support for employment and access to upskilling and training were also cited by the Welfare Expert Advisory Group as being of the utmost importance. This Government’s investment of $1.6 billion into the Trades and Apprenticeship Training Package and the $150 million extra into expanding the Ministry of Social Development’s employment support is also crucial. We have always said that we couldn’t make all the changes that we wanted to in one year, or even in one term, but this Government will continue to work together on how we can improve income support for New Zealanders.

💬 Marama Davidson: Is the COVID-19 income relief payment, announced yesterday, a recognition by this Government that current benefit levels are too low?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This payment is temporary financial assistance in recognition of those New Zealanders impacted by job losses due to COVID-19 that may not be, in some instances, eligible for support in our current welfare system and/or find themselves unemployed at a time when the labour market is going to be much more difficult to navigate. The payment is one of a range of financial assistance initiatives that the Government is providing to New Zealanders. There is also further work under way to explore unemployment insurance schemes, following a request from Business New Zealand and the Council of Trade Unions. This Government is exploring how to best support displaced workers, and unemployment insurance is a key tool that many countries in the OECD use for that purpose. We want to understand the role it can play in New Zealand on top of the work that we are already doing to improve income adequacy through the welfare system.

💬 Marama Davidson: Should people with health conditions and disabilities be able to keep their full benefits when they enter a relationship with someone earning less than $2,000 a week, just like people who will be receiving a COVID-19 temporary income payment?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: One of the key parts of this Government’s medium-term welfare overhaul plan is to review the settings underpinning income support, including, for example, relationship settings and eligibility criteria. I look forward to us continuing to do that work together.

💬 Marama Davidson: What further work is being done to ensure that every one in New Zealand has enough to live on, both during this crisis and long term?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Under our confidence and supply agreement, we committed to an overhaul of the welfare system, and we’re already seeing positive impacts for people as a result of this Government’s achievements—for example, for a person receiving sole parent support with a six-month-old and no other income, living in South Auckland, increases under this Government have meant a total increase of around $200 per week compared to a person in the same situation in early 2017. In response to COVID-19, we have also implemented the wage subsidy, which has supported more than 1.6 million employees through lockdown; developed a small-business cash-flow loan scheme; injected $27 million into the social services sector; and invested a further $30 million through civil defence emergency management into helping those with immediate needs around food and welfare. But I’ve never shied away from the fact that we have more to do in the long term to address income adequacy. We will continue our work to overhaul the welfare system to support the wellbeing of New Zealanders now and into the future.

Question No. 9—Transport

9. to the Minister of Transport: On what date did Cabinet last consider the Auckland light rail project, and when does he expect to make an announcement as to a preferred delivery partner for the project?

Talofa lava, Mr Speaker, malo soifua. 4 June, and after Cabinet decides.

💬 Chris Bishop: 4 June 2018 or 2019?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I think it’s self-evident, because we haven’t got to 4 June this year, and the most recent 4 June that I’m aware of is in 2019.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why has Cabinet not considered Auckland light rail since 4 June—as we’ve now learnt—2019, when the Government committed to having it built to Mount Roskill by 2021?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Because I haven’t taken that proposal to Cabinet yet, and the reason is that it was due to go to Cabinet in February, after the Ministry of Transport completed a rigorous assessment of alternative proposals, that Cabinet asked it to do. And at the time that COVID-19 hit the country, we’ve incurred a delay of three months because the Government has been preoccupied with focusing all of its resources on the response to COVID-19, but the proposal will return to Cabinet shortly.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is he seriously telling the House that COVID-19, which only really came into effect in terms of Government time lines in the last three months, is to blame for three years of inaction on a core Government election promise?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, I completely reject the premise of the member’s question.

💬 Chris Bishop: What premise of my question does he reject?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: That there had been no work done over the last three years.

💬 Chris Bishop: Can he confirm officials recommended to him that a refreshed process would have allowed market participants the opportunity to bid for the delivery of Auckland light rail, and, if so, why did he not progress this option?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I can’t confirm that, but I can confirm that the Ministry of Transport and Treasury advised Cabinet that the twin-track assessment process that the Ministry of Transport completed in the last six months of the last calendar year was justified and the appropriate way to deal with the options that were on the table.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is he aware that the Deputy Prime Minister has just said this afternoon, “It’s not an issue for us because it’s not going to happen in the immediate term.”, and will he now accept that Auckland light rail is not happening?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Discussions among coalition partners are an essential part of Cabinet decision-making. We’ve had those discussions and they will be reflected in the advice that goes to Cabinet.

Question No. 10—Research, Science and Innovation

10. to the Minister of Research, Science and Innovation: What recent announcements has the Government made about a vaccine strategy for New Zealand?

Talofa lava, Mr Speaker. Today, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Health, and I announced the COVID-19 vaccine strategy. The COVID-19 strategy aims to secure a vaccine—safe, effective, and in sufficient quantities—at the earliest possible time. It will enable New Zealand scientists to ramp up their important research, allow New Zealand to contribute to global research efforts, and explore the potential of vaccine manufacturing capability in New Zealand. We’ve set aside $37 million as part of the strategy, which will see New Zealand collaborate on the development of diagnostics, vaccines, and treatments of COVID-19. The development of a vaccine is an immense global challenge, and the Government’s approach is recognition that this will take time, cohesion, and expertise from across the board, from home-grown science capability to the leading role New Zealand will take in the Pacific in the distribution of the vaccine once it is discovered.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So what are the key components of the strategy?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: There are five central pillars to this strategy, which acknowledge the complexity and interconnectedness of the vaccine challenge. The pillars are: connecting New Zealand researchers globally to contribute to all aspects of vaccine development, distribution, and use; investing in research that contributes to global efforts, builds relationships, and supports early access to a vaccine; developing the ability to manufacture in case it is needed to secure supply; optimising regulatory approaches to ensure safety, to support research, and to enable domestic manufacturing; and using our purchasing arrangements, managed by Pharmac, to secure supply where possible and to enhance resilience. The vaccine strategy will also feed into and support immunisation strategy and planning as safe and effective vaccines are developed.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So what role will the New Zealand research sector play in the production of a vaccine?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: New Zealand has a world-class research sector with a history of working with colleagues across the globe to tackle complex problems. I’ve been heartened to see the speed and enthusiasm with which researchers have been tackling this issue, and it is this expertise that will be crucial to New Zealand securing access to a vaccine as soon as possible. It is vital that we contribute to international research efforts as well as ramping up our own research and manufacturing capability to meet demand. New Zealand scientists and researchers have already initiated early work into vaccine research, and we’ve supported this through funding through the COVID-19 Innovation Accelerator Fund. I’m pleased to say this strategy will enable this valuable New Zealand research to continue.

💬 SPEAKER: Question No. 11, the Hon—oh, sorry: Liz Craig.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: Just one final supp: how will New Zealand play a part in assisting our Pacific neighbours?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: We also have a strong interest in ensuring access for Pacific Island countries. Our aid programme will work with Pacific Island countries, regional organisations, and other donors to help these countries access vaccines and implement successful immunisation strategies. This is consistent with New Zealand’s ongoing commitment to the Pacific, and I’d like to thank the Minister of Foreign Affairs for his ongoing advocacy for the Pacific region and its part in the broader vaccine strategy.

Question No. 11—Tourism

11. to the Minister of Tourism: Does he stand by all his statements and actions in relation to tourism?

Yes. In particular, I stand by my announcement on Budget day which delivered a $400 million tourism recovery package targeted at helping businesses pivot towards the domestic market and protects our strategic tourism assets and the communities that benefit from them. This package, coupled with the extension of wage subsidies, our domestic marketing campaign, business tax relief, and the business finance guarantee scheme, forms this Government’s strong support package for the tourism sector, which will help us all to respond, recover, and restart the tourism industry in a post-COVID world.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: What does he say to Hobbiton chief executive, Russell Alexander, who said that there has been no detail in the Government’s tourism response package and “The problem is we have Minister of Tourism who is talking at his industry not talking with or for his industry.”?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I have received a letter of apology from the very same person, following their remarks, which were taken out of context. I have accepted their apology. He also said that a $400 million support package is significant and welcome, as is the wage subsidy relief extension.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: As Minister, what is his personal plan to get tourism back on its feet?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Firstly, our plan involved a strong and urgent Government response to support workers in small tourism businesses. We did this through the wage subsidy scheme and the various tax relief measures, of which the tourism industry accessed billions of dollars. Secondly, we are moving into a recovery and restart stage, extending the wage subsidy while we look to help businesses pivot towards a domestic or trans-Tasman market, protecting strategic tourism assets and the communities that benefit from them, and easing into a domestic marketing campaign to get Kiwis to “Do Something New, New Zealand!”—all the while keeping an eye on ensuring the tourism sector we are restarting and rebuilding is the reimagined industry we are planning for. The tourism task force, which is a private-public partnership, will continue their work on providing that leadership and advice.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Given that that misrepresentation or misinformation comes from a member of Parliament and is against him and is wrong, does he expect now to receive an apology?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: No. I don’t expect an apology from the Opposition; I think that would be expecting way too much.

💬 Tamati Coffey: How important is Māori tourism in the recovery of the tourism industry?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: It’s very important. We value the Māori contribution to our unique tourism offering. In my list of priorities, I wouldn’t rank the Māori contribution at number 13 or number 17. On this side of the House, our Māori contribution is more likely to have been seen at ranks number two, three, 11, 18, 20, 21, and 22.

💬 Tamati Coffey: What alternative recovery plans has he seen for the tourism sector?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Our plan is to work with industry to respond, recover, restart, and reimagine a better tourism industry than the one we had. This is much better than another plan I’ve seen, which says we need to—and I quote—“run a major advertising programme, tell New Zealanders not to travel internationally, and instead to visit bespoke destinations.” You’ll find this underwhelming plan if you go to www..

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Why, given that tourism was a $40 billion industry employing up to 400,000 people, did the Budget only allocate 1 percent of that to help the tourism sector?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The finance Minister was very specific in the Budget speech that after the initial response to COVID and the support that we gave to businesses, the Budget was the second wave of support and there will be a further wave of support. So the member just needs to sit and wait, because more is to come.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Has he received any submissions on the future Māori contribution to New Zealand tourism from one Pāora Heke Goldsmith?

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I’d really be interested in any contribution from the Hon Pāora Kōuramete. But, to be honest, having seen the policies from the other side, I don’t have any anticipation that there’ll be anything worthwhile and useful for the country.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: When he says that the member should sit and wait, does he not realise he’s saying to every single tourism business in New Zealand that, actually, they too must wait and that they need to urgently hear from him about what his actual plan is? They have now been waiting for more than nine weeks.

💬 Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The $400 million package is going to help businesses to pivot to manage through to a potential trans-Tasman bubble or hibernate, if that’s what they need, or to explore other options, as well as the strategic assets programme, which will help those assets that have positive spillover effects not only beyond their own business but into their communities and into the wider region and potentially further afield. So the Budget announcement is good news for the tourism industry, and there is more good news to come.

Question No. 12—Employment

12. to the Minister of Employment: What employment programmes or policies has he undertaken in response to the coronavirus outbreak?

Tuatahi, tika me mihi ki a koe to that member. I congratulate him on his position. The first part of our response was to support workers and small-business owners to keep people connected to their employment: over $10 billion in wage subsidies to over 1.6 million Kiwis and more than $890 million in small-business loans to over 52,000 businesses to help with cash flow. We were in a strong position, in terms of employment, as we went into COVID19, with the lowest general and Māori unemployment rates in a decade. We must protect those gains as much as possible. As part of our response, I have direct oversight of five critical programmes that will help people, particularly young people and Māori, find jobs, learn new skills, and tackle other barriers in terms of employment. We’re expanding He Poutama Rangatahi, our community-driven employment programme; we’re investing in Māori apprenticeships, Māori trades training; we’re strengthening our jobs and skills hubs in Auckland; we’re working with and listening directly to our communities by establishing regional skills leadership groups; and we’re expanding the very successful Mana in Mahi.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Is programme completion an outcome measure for these programmes, and if so, what are the targets for completion?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of the completion rates, we have had much success in that area—much success. We have an 81 percent success rate in terms of Mana in Mahi—81 percent success rate in terms of Mana in Mahi. That’s 81 percent of young people not returning to the unemployment benefit. So of course completion rates are important.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: What are the completion rates for the other four programmes that he’s named in the House today?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of He Poutama Rangatahi, we have 3,000 young people who are involved in employment or in training. As I said, in terms of Mana in Mahi, we have an 81 percent success rate. Māori trades training has not yet started, but it will be very, very successful. Our jobs and skills hubs are working very well, because they work in terms of the community, and our regional skills hubs also are working very, very well. All in all, things are going very well in this area. We haven’t given up, like the Opposition did after the global financial crisis, when unemployment spiralled to over 15 percent.

💬 Kiritapu Allan: How will increasing investment into He Poutama Rangatahi improve employment outcomes for young people in response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: By investing $121 million over four years with He Poutama Rangatahi, we’ll continue to fund community-driven programmes that work with otherwise hard to reach young people who face multiple barriers to employment and training. This programme, up to now, has been based out in the regions, but we’ll be moving this programme—still working in the regions, where I work with the Hon Shane Jones, but now moving this kaupapa into the cities. History shows us that young people are more strongly affected by economic crises, particularly young Māori, Pacific people, women, and disabled people. These groups face difficulties getting employment but also difficulties accessing training and education. He Poutama Rangatahi programmes can help them overcome these programmes. This is a programme we’re very proud of. The Opposition talked about it when we came in three years ago but never ever rolled it out. Our communities have benefited so greatly, and it’s of course just a shame that COVID-19 came along.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Did he take any new employment programmes or policies to Cabinet during the nearly four weeks of alert level 4, and if so, what were they?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We had programmes that were already in front of Cabinet. Those programmes have already done the business, are already well established. So, in terms of new programmes, the only new programme that was put forward was the Māori trades training programme, that we’re hoping will be a big success and the Opposition should support also.

💬 Kiritapu Allan: In light of all the discussions around the impacts of COVID-19 on Māori, how will investing in Māori apprenticeships improve employment outcomes for Māori in response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Māori have made great strides in the skills and employment outcomes in recent years, despite what the Opposition did to them over the previous nine years, and they need to be protected. Prior to COVID-19, we had seen the lowest unemployment rates for Māori in over a decade. So we must protect those employment gains we’ve made and ensure Māori emerge from this crisis stronger than ever. That’s why Budget 2019—oh, Budget 2020, I should say—[Interruption] Oh, that was really funny, eh? Oh, right, OK—must be desperate if you found that funny. But the Māori Apprenticeships Fund will empower Māori entities to take on and support apprentices, such as through group trades training schemes, to protect recent improvements in Māori skills and employment and strengthen the Māori-Crown relationship. Our people are looking forward to the next few months, and although things are tough, there’s a lot of optimism out there that they will form partnerships with a Government that cares.

💬 Dr Shane Reti: Of the $100 million coronavirus funding he announced on 20 March to redeploy workers due to coronavirus, how many have been redeployed?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I’ll come back to you with that number.