Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?

Last week, international credit ratings agency Standard & Poor’s (S&P) published its latest forecast for Asia-Pacific economies, factoring in the potential impacts from the global economic disruption caused by COVID-19. S&P forecasts the New Zealand economy to grow at 2 percent in 2020, rising to 2.9 percent in 2021. This is in line with other guidance from economists in recent weeks. It is important to note that this is a rapidly changing situation. Treasury is currently undertaking detailed scenario analysis of how the global disruption from COVID-19 might feed through to the New Zealand economy as part of the Budget process. The good news is that the New Zealand economy is in good shape as we go into this: net Government debt is at 19.5 percent of GDP—

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Thank you, National.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —and lower than what we inherited, Mr Bridges. We have forecast surpluses and data showing solid underlying momentum in the New Zealand economy.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: What reports has he seen on how COVID-19 is affecting different parts of the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Reports from the business community and official data show that the global disruption caused by COVID-19 is feeding through differently to different parts of the economy. The tourism and hospitality sectors and parts of the forestry industry continue to report the most significant impacts. Yesterday, Ministers Twyford, O’Connor, and Nash visited the Nelson region to be updated from businesses on the ground about the impacts of COVID-19. They have reported back that the region is in good shape, in part due to its diversified economy. Companies with exposure to China, like King Salmon, reported that while there had been some initial issues for their exports to China, business was rebounding, and Ministers were told that local businesses in those areas were actually concerned about a shortage of workers. Of course, we will continue to work with businesses in the Nelson region just as we are with businesses right across New Zealand, particularly in areas like Tai Rāwhiti, to ensure we support continued employment, income support, and redeployment options.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: How is the Government supporting all of New Zealand to work together to respond to the economic impacts of COVID-19?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The best way to mitigate the economic impacts of COVID-19 continues to be our strong and world-leading public health response. Simple but effective tasks like washing your hands properly, sneezing into the inside of your elbow, and staying away from work or public events if you are sick is vitally important, and I think all New Zealanders can be proud of the personal responsibility New Zealanders are showing in regard to this. We continue to urge businesses to remain as flexible as they can for people who are sick, and we continue to work with them and business groups and unions on the business continuity package. This is not just a Government response; it is not just a business or individual response; it is a New Zealand response, and that’s where our values as a country are showing through: everybody prepared to muck in and do their bit to work together to respond to this outbreak.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, especially the proactive work we are undertaking in response to COVID-19. On Monday, Cabinet agreed to quarantine measures which will mean medical officers of health can quarantine vessels or passengers coming to New Zealand if they believe there are passengers with coronavirus on board. This is in addition to the measures the Government has already implemented, which include travel restrictions, self-isolation, health staff meeting individuals disembarking from international flights at the border, and ensuring the public have information on how to keep healthy. The message I would share with this House is that we all have a role to play, and that does include all members of Parliament.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: What advice has she received on the number of job losses from the minimum wage increase on 1 April?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member is referring specifically to any impacts in more recent weeks, we have not received any advice in that regard. As I said in this House yesterday, the most important thing that we can do through this period for businesses affected by COVID-19 is provide them with targeted support. A roll-back of the minimum wage not only hurts low-income workers; it won’t keep people in a job if they are experiencing a massive downturn in custom. Someone could earn less and still be out of the job, and that helps no one.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that increasing the minimum wage on 1 April will increase the number of people who will lose their job by at least 6,500 people?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment has consistently given advice to successive Governments—including the member’s own—that every minimum wage increase will lead to job loss. Contrary to that advice, when we have increased the minimum wage, we have seen some of the lowest unemployment in this country in a decade. We stand by the fact that we have supported up to 200,000 people getting additional wages because of those increases, and minimum wage increases have a stimulatory effect in the economy—the last one up to a 0.1 percent increase for GDP.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Has the advice on the number of job losses as a result of the minimum wage increase on 1 April been updated to reflect the additional impact of coronavirus, which will mean many more thousands of job losses?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I already answered that, and if the member listened, I said no.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she understand her top priority is to keep New Zealanders in jobs and off the dole?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Actually, my top priority is keeping New Zealanders healthy, and that is the best thing that we can do for our economy as well. The public health response comes first and foremost, and in addition to that—because that is our best economic defence—and at the same time, we are getting ahead of the wider economic impacts. Not only have we rolled out those business advisory services, worked alongside banks to make sure that they’re supporting cash-flow issues, deployed our regional teams from the Ministry of Social Development, removed stand-down periods, and we are working on a business continuity package to make sure that businesses can keep their doors open through this period. I think it is utterly unreasonable and politicking of that member instead of supporting initiatives that will support business, instead calling for low-wage workers to earn less.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Prime Minister as to what guidelines she has taken from other Western democracies dealing with coronavirus—[Interruption]—and where has she seen an Opposition politician attacking a Government for the effects of economic and social disasters of coronavirus? Where in the Western World has she seen that?

💬 SPEAKER: No, wait. I want to know who it was who—

💬 Hon Todd McClay: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member is responsible for the punishment that’s going to occur.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have been looking around the world at different responses, both from a public health response but also an economic response. Most of the democracies we compare ourselves to have not put out specific packages like the one we are currently preparing. We have seen Australia talk about an infrastructure package—members in this House will remember it was only a few weeks ago that we put out a $12 billion infrastructure package that will have a stimulatory effect in our economy. I am confident, based on what I’ve seen abroad, that in terms of our economic response and our public health response, we are doing what is in the best interests of New Zealanders. In fact, we have 100 percent contact with all of the contacts relevant to our current known cases in New Zealand of COVID-19. That kind of contact tracing is critical to our current public health response.

💬 Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the advice the Leader of the Opposition refers to does not predict job losses but predicts a potential restraint on job growth, but, in fact, still predicts job growth in 2020 of over 43,000 jobs?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, the member well knows, of course, that we’ve had in excess of 80,000 additional jobs in the economy. So again, that is advice that that member would have received every time that Government increased the minimum wage as well.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she understand that to keep New Zealanders in jobs, we need businesses in business, and that means halting the record-high minimum wage increases about to happen?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: For those businesses who are currently experiencing significant downturn in their bookings and in their patronage, what they need is much more than what the member is suggesting. They need wage subsidy and support, they need support with cash flow, they need support with provisional tax. That is a much bigger, more targeted response, and it doesn’t hurt low-wage workers at the same time.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she have a specific COVID-19 health plan in writing?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I want to read from page 1 of the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan, which states—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked about a specific COVID-19 health plan. The Prime Minister’s—

💬 SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat. The member knows well that he can’t take that sort of point of order until the answer is completed. The member can’t anticipate a complete answer. He’s been here for at least nine years and he should know that.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Twelve.

💬 SPEAKER: Twelve, I’m sorry.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I was saying, the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan is comprehensive and states—

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: That’s not a COVID plan.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —if the member would like to listen—on page 1, “The New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan could reasonably apply to other respiratory pandemics, such as SARS.”

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: UK, Aussie.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It is totally relevant. Secondly—

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: It’s generic.

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member is criticising it, he may wish to reflect it was produced in mid-2017 under his Government. Finally, I again want to point out this is a global issue, not the time for scaremongering and politicking like that member continues to do.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question.

💬 SPEAKER: A point of order, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: No, it’s a supplementary question.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry?

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: It’s a question.

💬 SPEAKER: Oh, sorry. The member was drowned out—

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: You mistook me for someone else, I know.

💬 SPEAKER: That might be a miracle. It might be one of my wishes, but it didn’t happen.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Anyway, supplementary question to the Prime Minister: in helping business and workers in this country, will she rule out an increase in GST, which Mr Bridges today would not rule out?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does the Prime Minister regard specific questions about COVID plans as “politicking”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I regard any suggestion that our public health system is not well equipped to deal with COVID-19 to not be in the best interests or a genuine question, because that member well knows that that influenza plan, which has been in place since 2017, is comprehensive. It’s designed for exactly these situations, and not only that; that member also knows we have experts who are, of course, tailoring all of the evidence that we have around COVID-19 specifically to our response now. That is why we are using, for instance, all of the self-isolation and testing regimes that we are—specifically for COVID.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: When will New Zealanders see a specific COVID-19 plan as Australians have, as British have, and other countries as well?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It’s already in operation, and to suggest otherwise is irresponsible.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: So are reports from officials that they will develop a specific plan, because it’s necessary, wrong?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and policies?

Yes, and in particular I stand by my statement that I’m proud of how New Zealanders are taking responsibility and working together as we respond to the impacts from the global disruption caused by COVID-19. I also stand by my policy to work constructively with businesses and workers as we continue our ongoing response to COVID-19 through the business continuity package.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: When will money actually reach affected businesses from any short-term wage subsidy he is planning as part of the business continuity package?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As we announced after Cabinet on Monday, we will be releasing the full details next week.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: So can he be more precise: when will money actually reach the affected businesses?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: We will be moving as swiftly as we possibly can in designing a scheme that is appropriate to this situation, which is a targeted scheme. Businesses are already able, working through IRD and the Ministry of Social Development in terms of the support of their staff, to access money. There are businesses—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. Some members think this is important, and I want to be able to hear the response. I think it is irresponsible for members, having asked questions, to shout down a Minister who is attempting, in this case, to give a straight answer. Question No. 4—Jan Tinetti.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Excuse me. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: I was raising a point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: A point of order, Paul Goldsmith.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: I think that the reason why there was noise was that I’d asked a specific question about when we would have a date of when money would reach affected businesses from the subsidy, and he was talking about all sorts of other things not relating to the subsidy.

💬 SPEAKER: And why does the member think that’s a point of order?

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Speaking to the point of order. Largely—

💬 SPEAKER: Give us a rough idea of which Standing Order or Speaker’s ruling the member’s referring to.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well, surely the Standing Order that can be given that is relevant to the public interest and the public good would be a good place to start for a question. To simply say that we’re making an announcement next week about an announcement that we made yesterday, or some kind of never-never, doesn’t help all those tourist businesses in New Zealand that are suffering right now.

💬 SPEAKER: All right. The member will resume his seat. What the member’s indicating is he doesn’t like the answer. That is generally the case with questions of this type in the House and has been for the last 30 years since I’ve been here. And that is not a point of order. Mr Brownlee knows it’s not a point of order, and he’s testing my patience.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Supplementary?

💬 SPEAKER: No, I’d called the next question. So the member wants to go back now?

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Yes, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I will—no, I’m not going to seek leave. I’ll go back. I’ll be generous to him. It’s against my inclinations but I will.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is he worried that the window to save jobs is rapidly closing?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As we speak, there is staff from the Ministry of Social Development and the Inland Revenue Department working with businesses. Banks right across New Zealand, which I would have thought the member would have realised are the first port of call for businesses, are working closely with businesses to make sure they stay in employment. Right around the country, the response from New Zealanders to this has been good. We are developing this package in line with business expectations.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Will a further substantial increase to the minimum wage on 1 April add costs to many businesses?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The increase to the minimum wage has been well signalled. Most businesses will have factored it in already. It is an important element of making sure that low-income New Zealanders are able to spend and provide for their families, and, actually, it’s in small businesses right across New Zealand that that money will be spent.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Regardless of whether people knew it was coming, will a further substantial increase in the minimum wage on 1 April add costs to many businesses?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Different businesses are affected in different ways by changes that the Government makes. What I do know is that when the minimum wage goes up, as it did under the previous Government and as it has under this Government, people spend more, and for many of those individual businesses, they will come out well and truly ahead.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why is he adding costs to businesses at a time when many are struggling to keep their employees in employment?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I totally reject the premise of the member’s question. What we are doing is working alongside the business community to make sure that they are prepared for what may come and supporting low-income New Zealanders to have the money that they need to spend to feed their families, which supports demand in the economy. The member opposed the minimum wage increase for ideological reasons. Now is not the time to politick about it.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Does he stand by his statement rejecting the idea that this Government will increase GST; if so, why?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I can absolutely say that, and I was quite surprised earlier today to see the Leader of the Opposition fail to rule that out, but I guess anything’s possible with Simon Bridges. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Is the member finished now?

Question No. 4—Education

4. to the Minister of Education: What is the Government doing to support schools to manage the impact of COVID-19?

The Government is supporting schools with links to cases, and schools in general, by making sure that the most up-to-date information is provided to them. Another special bulletin went out on Friday evening to all schools and early learning services across the country, reiterating the key facts about COVID-19 in New Zealand. The bulletin set out the agreed protocol that the Ministry of Education and regional health services have—in particular, who will help schools through each stage of the process if a school, or someone associated with a school, comes into contact with COVID-19. Principals and school leaders have also been provided with templates that they can use to send information to their parent communities to reiterate the current facts around COVID-19 and the key health messages.

💬 Jan Tinetti: What support is the Government providing specifically to supporting schools in Auckland with links to cases?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: There are currently four schools in Auckland with links to cases. The Ministry of Education, with support from Auckland Regional Public Health Service, are in frequent contact with the four principals in all of those schools to help them with any queries. Ministry support teams have also been offered to other schools to help on the ground if needed. Information has been provided to the wider Auckland regional schools to ensure there is transparency and that everyone is getting the same messages. The key message for parents to hear is that in the case of all four of these schools, the advice from Health is that it is safe for students to be at school and that those students have not been exposed to COVID-19. As has always been the case, when a child is unwell, they should not go to school.

💬 Jan Tinetti: What is the Government doing to support the most accurate information going out to concerned parents?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Ministry of Education are working with Auckland Regional Public Health Services to provide tailored communication in a timely manner for parents where that is needed. Government agencies are responding with the latest evidence on COVID-19, and it’s important that everybody in public positions reaffirms this information. We understand and appreciate that parents will voice their concerns, but the very best thing that parents should be doing is getting accurate information from experts.

💬 Jan Tinetti: What feedback has he seen from principals on the Government’s support for schools over the last week?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I have seen some positive feedback from a very unlikely source, in fact. Auckland Grammar’s principal, Tim O’Connor, a known advocate for the Government, has said—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! No irony.

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: —ha, ha!—that the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health have been superb in the advice that they have been giving to schools. I do want to take this opportunity to thank all four school principals for the degree of professionalism they have shown in responding to these cases. It gives great confidence that our education system will be able to respond in that way if there are other cases.

Question No. 5—Health

5. to the Minister of Health: Does the New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan describe the conditions for moving to the “Stamp It Out” phase as sustained community-level outbreaks in two or more countries overseas and a confirmed human case in New Zealand; if so, have those conditions been met?

It’s important to continue to keep COVID-19 out of New Zealand at the same time as our public health experts work to contain and stamp out the five confirmed cases we have had. The current version of the New Zealand pandemic plan was drafted under the previous Government and has been tested under this Government. It’s a timely reminder of the importance of everyone playing their part—politicians, businesses, and the public—in following that plan in response to COVID-19. So in answer to the member’s questions, yes and yes.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: When did New Zealand move to the Stamp It Out phase?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: It is not only possible but it is, in fact, inevitable that our response to this rapidly evolving situation will span more than one phase of the pandemic plan at a time.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Can he confirm that the Stamp It Out phase includes an action to provide customised information to overseas visitors in New Zealand, and if so, why are the health cards provided at airports dated August 2014?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: The framework that the pandemic plan provides allows for a large number of decisions to be taken in response to specific situations, in response to the first part of the member’s question. In response to the second part of the member’s question, the advice that has been provided does pertain to symptoms of that illness and other illnesses about which the Healthline would like to hear.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Has the Government considered exit assessment procedures and advice on the risk of exporting disease, as set out in the Stamp It Out phase, particularly given the number of Pacific visitors planning to attend the Pasifika Festival this weekend?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: We are receiving advice all the time, and I’m expecting to receive more advice on that matter soon. What I would say is that New Zealand acted decisively and early to put border restrictions in place and expectations of self-isolation, and that has meant that we are amongst the best-placed countries in the world in respect to COVID-19. Part of doing that was noticing and being cognisant of our concern for and desire to protect our Pacific neighbours.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Given that answer, has he seen the suite of measures just announced by the Australian Federal Government, including increased travel bans for Italy, and what of those does the New Zealand Government consider implementing?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I will take advice from officials on the Australians’ moves. Of course, our advice is updated daily from the technical advisory group. The definition, I’m aware, is being broadened. I would also note that, of course, we moved ahead of Australia on restrictions around Iran, and that has proven to be a good move. We are acting on the best scientific and medical advice, on what doctors advise, at every stage.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is the Ministry of Health preparing a specific COVID-19 plan, as was advised by officials in a briefing to Opposition MPs yesterday?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Of course, the pandemic plan that was drafted in 2017 under the previous Government and has been tested under the current Government continues to provide the framework, absolutely—though, of course, at every stage, we are going to tailor that advice to the situation around COVID-19. We are learning day by day new things about COVID-19, and because we’ve taken those stringent and early measures, we are better placed to plan for the situation as it evolves.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister did not address the question of whether a specific COVID-19 plan was being prepared, as was advised to members yesterday.

💬 SPEAKER: I thought he said at the beginning that the plan that had been there since 2017 was being adapted on a daily basis.

Question No. 6—Social Development

6. to the Minister for Social Development: What steps has the Ministry of Social Development taken to support the Government’s response to COVID-19?

The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has already stood up rapid response teams in the four most impacted regions: the East Coast, Waikato, Northland, and Bay of Plenty regions. Additional teams will be stood up in additional regions before the end of the week, including Auckland; Central; Nelson, Marlborough, and West Coast; Southern; and Taranaki, King Country, and Whanganui. These teams are actively contacting employers and working with them to support their staff, explain the services and supports MSD can offer, and provide support for clients affected by COVID-19. We have also agreed to the temporary removal of stand-down periods from 23 March. This will ensure faster access to financial assistance for those that apply and are eligible for a main benefit. As I said in the House yesterday, my focus has been on ensuring that MSD remains poised and ready to support those who are able to stay in work, find alternative work, or enter into further upskilling and training if and when required.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What other steps has MSD taken to support the Government’s response to COVID-19?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: MSD continues to work closely with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) to develop a wage subsidy for employers, as announced by the Prime Minister on Monday. Further advice will be provided to Ministers by the end of this week for discussion at Cabinet on Monday. MSD is also working with the Ministry for Primary Industries and MBIE to explore redeployment options to support people who have been displaced or have reduced hours to work in other local industries. MSD continues to work alongside other Government departments as a key agency supporting the Government’s response to COVID-19.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Why is this important?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Ensuring that the welfare system is fit for purpose, which includes supporting people during adverse events by addressing financial hardship and supporting people into work, or upskilling and training, is top of my agenda as Minister for Social Development. It’s important to note that the additional measures I’ve mentioned also build on this Government’s investments in previous years to enhance income adequacy and support people into work through the indexation of main benefits, the lift in abatement rate thresholds, and increasing work-focused case management. All of these measures combined mean that in an adverse event such as the outbreak of COVID-19, the welfare system is better placed to support New Zealanders that might need our help.

Question No. 7—Workplace Relations and Safety

7. to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What advice, if any, has he received on the impact of the 2020 minimum wage increase on job losses?

I’ve received no advice that the minimum wage increase will lead to job losses.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Is the estimate of 6,500 fewer jobs as a consequence of the increase concerning to him?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: It would be, if that was correct, but the member is wrong. What the advice shows is that there may be 6,500 fewer jobs created, but what it also shows is the prediction that 43,600 jobs will be created this year.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Does it concern him that official advice suggests that the minimum wage increase will impose a $300 million cost on businesses, at a time when businesses are already struggling?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I think it’s important that we see that money flowing around the economy. At this time, when we need economic stimulus, one of the best things we can do is make sure that low-income people have money in their pockets so they can spend it in the small businesses in their community.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What has happened to the unemployment rate since this Government accelerated increases to the minimum wage?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: Well, when we came to Government, unemployment was 4.7 percent; it is now 4 percent. I can also tell the House that the underutilisation rate has fallen to 10 percent, the lowest in a decade, and wages are rising at the fastest rate in a decade, at 3.6 percent—that’s well above the rate of inflation. All of this puts New Zealanders in an excellent position to weather the economic effects of COVID-19.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Has he requested any further or specific advice on the impact of this minimum wage increase on 1 April on job losses as a result of the economic impact of COVID-19, and if not, why not?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: What this Government is focused on is supporting businesses and workers. That’s why we have acted quickly to support the tourism and fishing industries—an extra $4 million for the regional business partner programme as well as support for workers and businesses that they will get from the Ministry of Social Development and IRD. Cabinet has approved work to develop a business continuity package targeted at affected businesses, workers, and regions. We can get through this without penalising the lowest-paid workers.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister: is he prepared to share with the National Party the experience of Lee Kuan Yew’s Singapore, Taiwan, and the five Nordic countries who have denied and decried and destroyed this shibboleth decades ago?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I would enjoy that conversation. I have to say, New Zealand is unlikely to take the kind of steps that Singapore used to short the labour market by having extraordinary increases to the minimum wage, but we will, in a measured way, work alongside businesses to ensure that working people in New Zealand get a fair deal and we focus on being a more sustainable, more productive, and more inclusive economy.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: So the answer to the last question was no, he hasn’t sought any specific advice at all on the impacts of the 1 April minimum wage increase on job losses as a result of the economic impact of COVID-19—no advice at all.

💬 Hon Members: That’s not a question.

💬 SPEAKER: Yeah, very good point. Question No. 8, Jenny Marcroft.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked him to confirm, was his—

💬 SPEAKER: No, no, no, you didn’t. You said “so”. So is—

💬 Hon Todd McClay: “So has he”—can he confirm?

💬 SPEAKER: The member—

💬 Hon Todd McClay: “So is the answer”—

💬 SPEAKER: No, look, the member will resume his seat. There was not—Jonathan Hunt used to say it in a way like an old quizmaster, and so did Lockwood Smith: the questions start with a question word, and “so” is not a question word. Jenny Marcroft.

💬 Jenny Marcroft: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: I had one more supplementary, Mr Speaker.

💬 Hon Member: So?

💬 SPEAKER: All right. I think, in this case it’s “slow”, but we’ll let the member go.

💬 Hon Todd McClay: Thank you. Does he agree with the economist Shamubeel Eaqub on the minimum wage increase in respect of COVID-19—and I quote—“I think they should delay it. It will add significant increase to wage costs for hospitality businesses that will be reeling from the tourism fallout and potential recession.”?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I note that various economists have had various views. I agree with former BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander, who said that delaying the increase would not be the right move because doing so would affect businesses across the economy, including those feeling little effect from coronavirus. “It would not be a targeted response, and asking people on the lowest levels of earned income to sacrifice”.

Question No. 8—Seniors

8. to the Minister for Seniors: What actions is she taking to promote the use of the SuperGold card in regional New Zealand?

💬 SPEAKER: She’s sending me on a trip, is she?

Ha! On Monday, I was in Nelson to mark the start of an initiative to boost the SuperGold card in both the Nelson and Manawatū-Whanganui regions. Yesterday, approximately 5,000 people in Nelson and 17,000 in the Manawatū-Whanganui area were emailed to let them know about the SuperGold discounts and offers close to them. These are the first two areas where specific, dedicated regional pages have been created on the SuperGold website so that the cardholders can more easily see how they can stretch their dollar in businesses just around the corner. In Nelson, for example, there are around 200 businesses offering SuperGold deals and discounts, and in the Manawatū-Whanganui, that figure is closer to 500. This Government is dedicated to helping our 65-pluses get the best value from their SuperGold card via the new app and the website.

💬 Jenny Marcroft: How have New Zealand’s over-65s reacted to the SuperGold app and website?

💬 Hon TRACEY MARTIN: I think some of those people who are cynical about older people’s use of technology would be surprised. We know that around half of our 65-pluses use smartphones and over half a million use the internet. More than 108,000 people have now downloaded the SuperGold app, and there have been well over 340,000 visits to the upgraded website since 1 October, when these were launched by myself and the Rt Hon Winston Peters. We are going to continue to upgrade and make improvements to both the app and the website to continue to ensure they are both user-friendly. I want to ensure that every SuperGold cardholder knows that there are opportunities close to them to gain a discount, regardless of where they live in New Zealand. It’s also a way of reminding people that the app is here, it’s easy to download, and it was designed with over-65-year-olds to ensure that it is easy to use.

💬 Jenny Marcroft: What has the reaction from business been?

💬 Hon TRACEY MARTIN: Again, it’s been exceptionally positive. There are 775,000 consumers who are over 65 years old—775,000 consumers who have a SuperGold card. The businesses I talk to recognise that the card, the website, and the app provide them with a great way of reaching this group. During the process of revitalising the card and building the app, 500 new businesses signed up to provide SuperGold offers, and another 117 have joined since 1 October. There will be a business recruitment campaign in April and May, and I’m hoping that this will see more firms join the SuperGold family.

💬 SPEAKER: What—no more?

Question No. 9—Regional Economic Development

9. to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Why did officials from the Provincial Development Unit spend $1.03 million in the 2018/19 year on travel, accommodation, meals, and other expenses, and how many launch events for Provincial Growth Fund projects did this spending relate to?

on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development: The member’s question is factually incorrect by $366,000. In total, $844,631 was spent on these expenses in the 2018-19 year; $187,389 on accommodation, meals, and incidentals.

💬 Chris Bishop: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. What about the second leg of the question, which was about launch events for the Provincial Growth Fund projects?

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Mr Speaker, if there are two legs to a question and the premise upon which the second leg of the question is the first leg of the question and the Minister has said that the first leg of the question is wrong, then he can’t really answer the second part of the question.

💬 SPEAKER: I—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Speaking to the point of order—

💬 SPEAKER: No.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well, Mr Speaker—

💬 SPEAKER: The member’s winning at the moment.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Oh, OK then.

💬 SPEAKER: I don’t accept the submission of the Leader of the House. The fact that the first part is not absolutely accurate does not rule out the second part. If the answer is something less than the first part, the second part can stand, even if there is an assumption in there that it all relates to launch events, which itself I don’t think has been authenticated.

On behalf of the Minister, these events are not parked up in Sydenham or Fendalton or, dare I say it, Remuera and Epsom; they are out in the real world, from Kaitāia to Invercargill, where we have people—

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: It’s not real?

—placed all over the country, and despite that, on the ground—I know you haven’t been out and about in Epsom. You wouldn’t know what a hammer looks like, or a shovel, or, for that matter, what a business looks like. He has no business experience at all—at all. But my point is that in this year, 52 funding announcements were set around these events—52.

💬 Chris Bishop: How did a unit of just over 100 people manage to rack up spending on flights and dinners and hotels of a million dollars in just a year?

On behalf of the Minister, again the member’s got his figures wrong. The figures are $844,000. So that’s not a million dollars. But I know that his only background experience is selling tobacco, so what would he know about a real business. Snapchat that. [Interruption]

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Hang on, hang on. I want some settling and I want to think about that one, but, while I’m thinking about it, I’ll hear from Mr Brownlee.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Deputy Prime Minister is speaking on behalf of the Minister who has a delegation for regional development. The Minister for Regional Economic Development has answered written questions providing the numbers that are being used by my colleague Mr Bishop in this question and were provided to the Clerk’s Office in authentication of the primary question. Are we to take it now that the Minister answering for the Minister is saying the Minister himself was wrong all along?

💬 SPEAKER: On that particular question, there’s clearly a matter of debate, and there may be an inaccuracy or people might be using different definitions, and I’d remind the member that the Deputy Prime Minister, who is currently acting to answer this, can occasionally work things around to a different way of defining things or pick up figures in different ways—he has some experience in it. But, if there’s a clear error, then I would expect either the Minister answering the question or, on the next occasion he comes to the House, the Minister in charge to deal with it. Having said that, while Mr Brownlee was on his feet having called a point of order, the Deputy Prime Minister continued and I think made an unbecoming reference to a member, and he will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

I withdraw and apologise. Can I answer the question? [Interruption] Can I answer the question, Mr Speaker?

💬 SPEAKER: Hang on. I’m just trying to work my way back—yes, there was an interruption, so yes.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: He keeps being personally abusive.

Oh, listen to this.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. I made a ruling—all right?—and my ruling was the member was interrupted by a point of order. I don’t expect my ruling to be criticised by the member from her chair.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I certainly was not questioning your ruling in one way or the other. I was making the point that all the Minister does when answering is be personally abusive because he doesn’t have answers. But that’s not questioning you, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: That’s still not a point of order.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Back to sanity. The costs of the Provincial Growth Fund’s development travel unit and accommodation are reflective of a dynamic programme which engages with the provinces and the regions and does not leave them to rot, stagnate, and decay. Now, here’s the challenge: in contrast, 20 Cabinet Ministers in last year’s Cabinet spent $1.2 million—that’s 20 Cabinet Ministers—116 officials, in the last year of comparison, spent $844,000. Now, the travel costs are the lowest admin rate possibly in the Western World’s democratic history—0.028 percent for a $3 billion programme. Stop being so mealy-mouthed.

💬 Chris Bishop: What steps, if any, is he taking to rein in the travel activities of the Provincial Development Unit?

On behalf of the Minister, frugality and thrift is our middle name, and we spend all of our time telling our officials not to waste money, as they were wont to do under a prior administration.

💬 Chris Bishop: How many staff attended the event to mark the reopening of the Napier to Wairoa rail line in June last year, which so far has had the grand total of three trains run down it?

On behalf of the Minister, that the member wanted to have an answer to that question, given there have been so many—that is, scores and scores of events—as to how many turned up to this one event, was an endeavour not seeking an answer but just to showboat in Parliament. However, what I can say is there were literally hundreds and hundreds—dare I say it, thousands—lining the railways from Wairoa to Napier as it was reopened. I know that because I’ve seen all the photographs and all the pictures. And, then, of course, you’ve got all the local government politicians and mayors, mainly whom are National, saying it’s a fantastic and very sound idea.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why are the hundreds of people who apparently lined the route to welcome the reopening of the line not using the $6.2 million line that has just been reopened?

On behalf of the Minister, when you have a circumstance where the prior Government let a railway line cease operations on the basis that they wouldn’t spend one cent to fix it up, and when a Government comes along later with all that atrophied business and all that development commerce having been delayed, it takes a while to get things back going again. But he will not find one local body politician or mayor from Wairoa or Napier—nor the whole Hawke’s Bay, for that matter—who is not on this Government’s side in the case of that railway line. But if the National Party’s view is that it should be closed, why don’t they say so?

💬 Chris Bishop: Does he think New Zealanders would find it galling that officials have spent $1 million on travel and expenses at a time of huge economic uncertainty?

On behalf of the Minister, having proven that that was false in the first place, when he said the word “galling” I wasn’t too certain whether he meant Gauloises, because that’s a French cigarette, and he would have been selling that in his past life as well.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why does he continue to insist that my figures are wrong, when questions for written answer Nos 1906 and 1900 clearly state that travel, meals, and incidentals add together to $1.03 million?

The member just put his finger on the problem. He didn’t say “meals”; he said “travel”. Now, come on. He said, countless times, “travel”, and now—of course, he’s not of a very athletic business mind—he’s got caught out.

Question No. 10—Health

10. to the Minister of Health: How has close-contact tracing work progressed for the five confirmed cases of COVID-19?

I’m advised that all known close contacts of the five confirmed cases have now been contacted. Daily contact is being maintained by Auckland Regional Public Health Service. As of yesterday, 193 close contacts have been traced and contacted and given advice on self-isolation; 763 casual contacts have been contacted by Auckland Regional Public Health Service. This is what good public health practice looks like. I want to thank all those who are working on contact tracing to help protect the public.

💬 Tamati Coffey: Are all close contacts now in self-isolation, and how are they being supported?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I’m advised that all close contacts have been told to go into self-isolation. They are checked in with daily. These phone calls are being done by Auckland Regional Public Health Service, and include symptom checks. In addition, close contacts are provided with Healthline contact details and links to the Ministry of Health and Auckland Regional Public Health websites for additional information.

💬 Tamati Coffey: What additional work has been done with people who may have come into casual contact with confirmed cases of COVID-19?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: As of yesterday afternoon, 763 casual contacts had been contacted. Expert advice is that these people don’t need to be in self-isolation but do need to be alert to the symptoms of COVID-19 and get in touch with Healthline or phone their GP if they have any concerns. Auckland Regional Public Health Service have a team of people that support public and medical queries, and a case and contact team to respond to queries. In addition, Healthline contact details are available on the MOH—Ministry of Health—and Auckland Regional Public Health Service websites for people to access additional information.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: How many of the close contacts that the Minister referenced were identified from the mosh pit at the Tool concert last week?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: As the member knows, those people who were in that situation have been identified as casual contacts.

Question No. 11—Social Development

11. to the Minister for Social Development: What, if anything, is she doing to prepare the welfare system for the impacts of the coronavirus outbreak?

The Government has already taken strong action to support the economy in response to COVID-19 and is rolling out a comprehensive plan, including: working with industry to support affected businesses, including an $11 million tourism package; agreeing to a business continuity package; and directing work on an economic stimulus package building on the already announced $12 billion New Zealand Upgrade Programme. As mentioned in my response to oral question No. 6, the additional measures announced to date that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is specifically leading or actively contributing to are: standing up rapid response teams in the most impacted regions; the temporary removal of stand-down periods from 23 March to ensure faster access to financial assistance; and working alongside the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment to develop a wage subsidy option for employers and on redeployment options. We will continue to monitor the situation to ensure that MSD is poised and ready to support those who are able to stay in work, find alternative work, or enter into further upskilling and training if and when required.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Why did she state in the House yesterday, and I quote, “I haven’t been alerted to the need for forecasts at this point.”, and has someone now alerted her?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I said in the House yesterday that I had not received any updated forecasts with respect to jobseeker benefit numbers. That was the question that was put to me. I also said that we are expecting the forecasts—the benefit forecasts would next be completed as part of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, which is set to be published on 14 May 2020.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Does she not consider it important to ask officials for the expected increase in the number on jobseeker benefit?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: That member will be aware of the fact that forecasts are done in line with Treasury at particular intervals, and at this point, I have not been alerted by Treasury—

💬 Chris Bishop: Do your job.

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: —for the need to update forecasts prematurely. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise. Dr Smith.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: What for? What have I done wrong?

💬 SPEAKER: For reflecting on me. The member knows—

💬 Chris Bishop: I think it was me.

💬 SPEAKER: I apologise to both members for mixing them up.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I’m getting a withdrawal and apology from this member first.

💬 Chris Bishop: I apologise. Well, I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Hon Nick Smith certainly made a comment during that question time, and he knows what it was.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: It wasn’t unparliamentary.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Mr Speaker, do you want to hear what he said?

💬 SPEAKER: No, I don’t. If the member thinks it’s unparliamentary, we’re not having—

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well, it’s against Standing Orders. That’s why he should apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: I’m quite certain that I’ll go back and listen to the tapes and look at the television on this, and if I need to take further action I will.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: If she has no advice on the impact of coronavirus on jobseeker support numbers, how can she be preparing her department?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The question in the House and the one that the member is referring to was whether or not I had received forecast figures around jobseekers benefit, and I haven’t. We are all, as a Government and Government agencies, making sure that we are prepared. It’s important, as a Government, that we do not panic and we do not incite panic from New Zealanders but that we respond accordingly. So the additional measures I talked about are integral to making sure that we are prepared. But can I say also that they build on some of the investments we already made as a Government to invest and ensure that our welfare system is fit for purpose, including the investment in 263 more front-line case managers to make sure that we can have that work focus that we need.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: When will the Minister ask for an impact of coronavirus on the number of jobseeker benefits if she’s serious about preparing her department?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If I receive advice from Treasury that that is required, then I will welcome that information. For now, I’m set on making sure that as a Government agency, we don’t panic, but that we are out in the regions, are supporting employers, supporting business, and supporting our clients and New Zealanders that may be affected to ensure that they are taken care of, whether it be through financial assistance or whether it be with respect to support into employment, upskilling, and training during this time.

💬 Hon Louise Upston: Is she not concerned about the significant impact that this coronavirus outbreak will have on the country and taxpayers, with an increase on those going on to the dole?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think, as a House, we are all concerned about the potential impacts of coronavirus, but what we’re trying to do as a Government is ensure that we are poised to respond as the situation unfolds, that we are prepared, that we are proactive, and that we are putting appropriate measures in place. I believe that we are doing that. We want to make sure that we do not throw industry or New Zealanders who are in the workforce into panic. We just want to be there to support them and to ensure that we can get through this appropriately.

Question No. 12—Education

12. to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?

Yes, in the context in which they were made.

💬 Hon Nikki Kaye: Does he stand by his statement, in response to fears regarding coronavirus that lost fees could wipe out the surplus of the entire university sector, that comments were alarmist given the sector is projecting up to $300 million a year in losses?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Those comments are very premature. The overall impact on the university sector will largely depend on when the travel restrictions are removed and the proportion of students who had intended coming to New Zealand—the proportion of those who continue to come here.

💬 Hon Nikki Kaye: Does he stand by his statement that comments were alarmist and that those comments were premature given that the universities of New Zealand have written to the Tertiary Education Committee projecting that scenario of $300 million of losses within the next seven or eight weeks?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes, I do believe they are alarmist. I also believe they were premature. Of course, the position of the universities is that there should be no travel restrictions at all.

💬 Hon Nikki Kaye: Is he ruling out a financial support package for education providers to deal with the impact of coronavirus?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No, but at this point I believe that is premature.

💬 Hon Nikki Kaye: Does he stand by his decisions around education providers and coronavirus given the real issues of delays around visas and returning students, and will he do anything to prevent that?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: If the member is arguing that we should remove the travel restriction, I think the majority of the country would disagree with her.

💬 Hon Nikki Kaye: Does he stand by his statement regarding adequate support for education providers impacted by coronavirus, given the real communications by agencies and schools and the issues raised with that and the real need for greater financial support for tertiary institutions?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I’m not sure which one of those questions the member wants me to answer. I am confident that the schools, early childhood centres, and tertiary institutions are being given very good, sound advice by public health officials about how to deal with any consequences of the coronavirus. I am also confident that there is existing financial means for the providers to cope with this situation in the short term. Of course, the overall financial impact is going to depend on how long it goes on for.

Question No. 13—Social Development

13. to the Minister for Social Development: How many subsidies did Work and Income pay under the childcare assistance programme in the year ended June 2019, and how does this compare with the number of subsidies paid under a National-led Government in the year ended June 2017?

As at June 2019, there were 33,072 childcare and Out of School Care and Recreation (OSCAR) subsidies, including the guaranteed childcare assistance. As at June 2017, there were 42,989 subsidies. A key reason that the number of childcare and OSCAR subsidies has decreased is that many families’ incomes have increased under this Government. We are providing more support to families through our Families Package, which is the biggest boost in household income in a decade for thousands of families. We’ve also increased the minimum wage, rising to $18.90 as of 1 April, have increased the amount people can earn before their benefit is reduced, and have indexed main benefits to wage growth.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does the Minister really mean to tell struggling Kiwi families that it is a good thing that fewer of them are receiving help with childcare costs?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I do need to point out that since 2011, there has been a steady decline in those accessing childcare assistance subsidies. So it is not a new phenomenon. However, I will say that childcare assistance is one of the areas that we cited in our Cabinet paper on our response to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group as one of the areas that we should be reviewing, and we have highlighted it as an area that we want to investigate, explore, and review in our longer-term plan.

💬 Nicola Willis: Can she confirm that while the number of Kiwis on the dole is increasing, her Government is overseeing a reduction in the number of families getting the childcare support that could help them stay off welfare and stay in work?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I can’t confirm the numbers around that thing called “the dole”, because there is no such thing, but what I can confirm is that, actually, we’ve got an unemployment rate of 4 percent, which is the lowest that it’s been in a decade. We’ve got a working-age population on benefit, which is about 10.5 percent, which is relative to every year that the previous Government were in place, or better. And, as I said, we continue to monitor the situation, and we will be reviewing childcare assistance because we recognise the importance of it.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does the Minister think that childcare costs can be a barrier for parents moving off the dole and into work, and is she concerned that, under Labour, around 10,000 fewer childcare subsidies are being paid to low-income families?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I can confirm is that there were actually 10,000 fewer childcare subsidies being paid out under the previous Government between 2011 and 2017. We recognise that there does need to be a review of childcare assistance and have outlined it really clearly in our Cabinet paper. We recognise the importance of childcare assistance with respect to supporting people into employment. I will say that we’re really proud of the fact that we’ve put additional money into the pockets of low- and middle-income New Zealanders through our Families Package.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP, who said in 2015 that “We know that, at an operational level, Work and Income are making it as hard as possible for parents to access their childcare subsidy entitlement.”, and if so, is she proud of the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I’m really proud of is that from April last year, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) engaged in a proactive programme of phoning primarily sole parent beneficiary recipients to make sure that they were getting access to their full and correct entitlement—and this is above and beyond their business as usual—and making sure that they were getting access to things like childcare assistance subsidies. The fact that it has reduced because incomes have gone up is something we do need to keep a close eye on. We do need to review childcare assistance subsidies, but I’m proud of the fact that incomes have gone up under this Government.

💬 Nicola Willis: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP, who said, “If more people are going to work, we should see some kind of increase in the number of people not on benefits receiving childcare subsidies”, and if so, what has she done about the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: That member that she refers to was a good Opposition member, and she highlighted very important issues. Can I say, as I mentioned earlier, that there had already been a steady decline in the take up of childcare assistance subsidies under the previous Government. We haven’t been able to get on to everything that we would have liked to in the first two years, but I have already indicated in the Cabinet paper that responds to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group’s recommendation that it is part of our work programme—it is a commitment.

💬 Nicola Willis: Why did the Minister make such a big deal about correcting her written answer yesterday when all she did was swap the word “client” for the word “subsidies”, and can she actually tell this House clearly whether more or fewer families are getting childcare support under Labour?

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know it’s getting late and we want to see the end of this question time, but that member has constantly got up and asked two separate questions, and we don’t feel like indulging her any longer. Either get a finger on the Standing Orders or don’t ask the question in the first place.

💬 SPEAKER: Right. I have had requests from both sides of the House to be a little bit more flexible in my interpretation of the rules. I think it’s fair to say that it’s mainly been in respect of one member, but has also involved members not very far away from the member who took that point of order. It is a relatively rare occurrence for the newer members of the backbench to have supplementary questions, and I’m deliberately being kind to them—and a little bit loose—and I’m sure that over time they will get it right.

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I thought it was important because I think it’s important that we are accurate in this House, and there is a difference between the number of subsidies versus the number of clients, so I needed the accurate information. Can I say that I did receive 4,300 written questions over the last calendar year, and so I think the fact that we only had to correct one question in the House is actually something MSD and my officials can be very proud of.

Question No. 9 to Minister

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just seek your guidance in relation to question No. 9 and the written questions that form the basis of the question. My office has just received an email from the Minister’s office—after the question was asked and answered by the Deputy Prime Minister on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development—taking issue with the numbers used in the question. I won’t get into the details of it, but it goes into whether or not the overall number is inclusive or if you can add the two numbers together. I’m just seeking your guidance as to how that plays out in relation to the correction of answers or the correction of the primary question in the first place, because it was never challenged by the Minister’s office when it was put down on notice; in fact, it wasn’t even challenged last night or later on this morning. So I just seek your guidance on that.

I’m not sure of the advice the member’s seeking. The member’s received an email after a question has been asked from a Minister’s office about the general subject area.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Can I speak?

Sorry, I’ll stand up, because that’ll mean that Nick Smith might stop interjecting while I’m attempting to rule. What I don’t understand is the matter that I’m being asked to rule on. I ask Mr Bishop to be more specific about the Standing Orders or Speakers’ rulings that I’m being asked to address. I will remind him, and I think it’s somewhere around Speakers’ Rulings 20/2 or 20/3, that the House doesn’t go back, and so I’m after what the Standing Orders issue is and the remedy that the member’s seeking.

Well, I suppose what I’m saying is I’m uncertain as to whether or not the Deputy Prime Minister or myself have misled the House, and if you require from us any effective, you know, way of making that right so that we don’t fall foul of the Standing Orders.

Right. Well, I think it’s fair to say that, on the first matter, I have accepted a question with the authentication which I considered appropriate, and, if I’ve made a mistake, well, I do apologise to the House. Therefore, I think it’s fair to say that unless there is a further misleading by way of supplementary questions, that member’s off the hook. If the member answering the question has made an error, he knows well how to sort it out, and there’s no matter for me to currently rule on.