Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: He aha ngā rīpoata hou kua kitea e ia mō te ōhanga o Aotearoa?

[What recent reports has he seen on the New Zealand economy?]

We know that COVID-19 will have a significant impact on New Zealand’s economy, particularly in the short term. There are, however, a range of reports that demonstrate the solid momentum behind the economy going into this situation. Yesterday, Statistics New Zealand released overseas trade data for the December 2019 quarter showing New Zealand’s terms of trade reached an all-time high at the end of last year—up 2.6 percent on the back of higher meat and wood prices. Last week, Statistics New Zealand also released overseas merchandise trade data for January, showing exports had continued to rise at the start of the year—up 8.8 percent on January 2019. And on Friday, Treasury released the latest Crown accounts for the seven months to the end of January, showing a surplus of $1.4 billion and net debt below forecast at 19.5 percent of GDP. While the coronavirus will continue to have an impact on the New Zealand economy, these reports show that we are in a strong position to respond to the impacts.

💬 Tamati Coffey: What reports has he seen on the impact of the coronavirus on the economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This is a rapidly changing situation and the economic context is constantly evolving, but we are starting to see the first data come through. Yesterday, Statistics New Zealand released projections of the likely merchandise trade between 27 January and 23 February. The data shows that New Zealand’s total merchandise trade was down 1.9 percent over the period compared with the year before, with exports to China down 9 percent. It is important to note that exports to the rest of the world held up around the same levels as last year. The Government continues to work closely with the business community on the impacts of coronavirus; this includes the support we’ve already given to the tourism sector and the boost to regional business advice services, along with the ongoing work on the ground of Government agencies, including the Ministry of Social Development, the Inland Revenue Department, and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. It is important to note that the New Zealand economy is robust and we will get through this situation. I encourage all players in the economy to work together. In particular, I urge banks and their clients to develop a plan to see them through this period.

💬 Tamati Coffey: What reports has he seen on the international context for the New Zealand economy?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Just this morning the OECD released its latest interim economic outlook, highlighting that global growth prospects remain highly uncertain as a result of the COVID-19 outbreak. The OECD has downgraded its forecast for global growth this year by half a percentage point to 2.4 percent. In its downside scenario, in which the outbreak lasts longer and is more intensive, the OECD suggests global growth could fall as low as 1.5 percent in 2020. Similar to the OECD, the Government has been planning for three scenarios. As I mentioned last week several times, we are moving more towards the second scenario now, which is based on a longer-lasting shock with global impact feeding through to the economy for the rest of 2020. Planning for this scenario and, indeed, further scenarios continues so that we can act swiftly and decisively as the impacts of the coronavirus are felt on the global and domestic economy. These responses will include sector- and regional-specific ones.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s statements and actions?

Yes, especially the proactive work we are undertaking in response to COVID-19, including border measures, requirements around self-isolation as part of our pandemic plan, and public health messaging. They are just some of the measures that we are undertaking to ensure New Zealanders are kept healthy and well.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Is she worried the Reserve Bank estimates GDP growth was just 1.6 percent in 2019, the lowest since 2011?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As the member will well know, looking globally at the moment, we are seeing estimates from the likes of the OECD and others around the likely impact of COVID-19 on the global economy, and, of course, the impact for New Zealand will be no different in that regard. The New Zealand economy, though, is well placed to weather what we are about to experience and what we are experiencing. For instance, we obviously have low debt—lower than what we inherited—our unemployment rates are low, and we have run Budget surpluses. We are ready for what is in front of us and that’s exactly what we’ve always prepared for.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Why was GDP growth just 1.6 percent in 2019 when our terms of trade were at record highs and coronavirus hadn’t in any way affected the economy by that stage?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is raising estimates and I would rather talk about the facts. Of course, to date, New Zealand has, relative to other countries, fared very well. At 2.7 percent growth relative to some of those that we compare ourselves to—Australia, Japan, the UK—New Zealand has performed well. We are obviously moving into a different phase, where there is going to be a period of global impact on the global economy, and time will tell what that will look like in New Zealand. But as I said, we are well prepared for what is coming our way.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she dispute the Reserve Bank’s latest figure of 1.6 percent growth in the 2019 calendar year, and if she does, what’s the correct figure?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’d merely point out it’s an estimate.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that the decline in GDP growth to the lowest level since 2011 means New Zealand is not as resilient as we should be to manage the economic impact of coronavirus?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I absolutely reject that. In fact, I look to some of the statements that have been made in recent times about New Zealand’s current position, particularly as we look to weather the global storm of the impact of coronavirus, and as Cameron Bagrie said last week, the good news is New Zealand has good momentum into turbulence. You want good momentum into challenging times; it helps ride them out. As I’ve said, we have been well placed: net debt at 19.5 percent. We inherited it at 22.9 percent. Unemployment at 4 percent; it was over 4 percent when we inherited this economy. And of course, we have run Budget surpluses, which also we’ve consistently said were for precisely these moments in time. We are well prepared and we are well placed.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister: if one is to use an estimate from one year by comparison with an actual report on a percentage from a prior year, what’s the conclusion likely to be from that sort of calculation?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Very likely—

💬 SPEAKER: I’m struggling to find responsibility—

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —the wrong one.

💬 SPEAKER: —but OK.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept if New Zealand was growing at 3 to 4 percent a year as we were before she became Prime Minister, then the economy would be better positioned to handle the economic effect of coronavirus?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member is trying to assert that we would be in a better position under National, they don’t need to make an estimate; they just need to look at the facts. The facts were that debt was sitting at 22.9 percent, that unemployment was over 4 percent, that wage growth was lower than it is now, which has reached some of the highest levels we’ve seen in the last 10 years at 3.6 percent. No matter what measure you use, we are better placed now under this Government than we were under the last one, and that means we are well prepared to deal with what we are now heading into, which is a global impact from COVID-19. I would also want to reflect to this member that this is a time when New Zealand is about to run into a turbulent storm and it would be helpful, I think, for the member not to talk down New Zealand’s situation right now.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that New Zealand would be in a better position to manage coronavirus if the Government hadn’t plunged the books back into deficit within just two years?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have run surpluses in the order of $13 billion. We are projected to run surpluses in the order of $12 billion. That is exactly why we are prepared to weather this storm we are now facing off the back of COVID-19. The facts for the economy speak for themselves and the economists are reflecting that we are well placed because of decisions made by this Government.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that if her Government hadn’t spent billions of taxpayers’ dollars on policies like fees-free, KiwiBuild, and Shane Jones’ fund, New Zealand would now have greater capacity to deliver for New Zealanders without racking up much more debt?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Debt is lower now under this Government than on his watch. The facts speak for themselves.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Is it the case that neither GDP growth, the unemployed on the dole, or debt is in a better position now than under the last five years of the Key Government—in fact, much, much worse?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I stand by every statement I have made in this House. We are better placed now and New Zealanders are better off under this Government.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that if her Government hadn’t cancelled tax relief and piled on higher fuel taxes and landlord regulations, then New Zealand households would have much more money in their pockets to deal with the economic impact of coronavirus that’s on them now and coming hard?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No, because under that Government, he would’ve given himself a tax cut; under ours, we gave low and middle income earners on average $75 a week. I totally reject his statement.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that if her Government hadn’t broken New Zealand’s infrastructure pipeline by delaying 12 major roading projects, then the construction sector would have more work in place now and the economy would be much more resilient to economic shocks like coronavirus?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I am very pleased, as the Prime Minister for the Government of infrastructure, to respond to that question. Time and time again, we have demonstrated that that last Government sometimes invested nothing in capital infrastructure and capital for the health system—in one year, a mere $150 million. We have invested in roads with actual funding and transport projects with actual funding, as opposed to that Government, who announced ghost projects with press statements and not a cent behind them. We are the ones that brought in the Infrastructure Commission. We are the ones with the $12 billion infrastructure upgrade. We’re the ones that have lifted the confidence of the construction sector as a result.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Of the so-called 12 road projects mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition, how much money had been set aside with respect to the road to Ōmokoroa or, for example, from Whangārei to Marsden Point or, for that matter, the 10 bridges?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: None.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Can she name one single major transport project that will be started before the election?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Manawatū Gorge. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Darroch Ball: Own goal.

💬 SPEAKER: Who said that? Stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Darroch Ball: I withdraw and apologise.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. to the Minister of Finance: What changes to the Government’s economic policies, if any, has he made since the spread of COVID-19?

First and foremost, our response to coronavirus has been led by our responsibility to protect the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders. That is why our first response is a public health response. The Government’s economic plan and policies have put us in a strong position to respond to COVID-19. Our plan and policies have delivered the underlying stability and resilience that will be critical in the coming months. We need to continue to implement those policies in this period of uncertainty. We’re working closely with affected businesses, employers, and workers. We’re focused on protecting jobs and supporting businesses and affected industries—for instance, the tourism sector and through the Regional Business Partner programme. Detailed plans and policies for the potential scenarios I’ve already laid out are being developed as we speak to respond as the situation develops.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he agree that there are many businesses under real pressure at the moment from falling demand and rising costs?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The effects on the New Zealand economy and individual businesses within it vary. The conversations we had yesterday and in previous days with the business sector indicate that the tourism sector and the hospitality sector are obviously particularly exposed at the moment, some export sectors, and, obviously, some import sectors. That’s why we’re working on developing a comprehensive plan alongside them while providing immediate assistance where it’s needed.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: What message has he got for small-business owners in the hospitality, forestry, and tourism sectors in particular, who are wondering right now how they’re going to make the next payroll?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, I was able to deliver those messages directly to the hospitality industry yesterday. What they sought from us was an assurance that Government agencies were there on the ground with them, which we were able to give them, with the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and IRD working closely with individual businesses down to the level of provisional tax payments, working with them on how to manage other tax obligations that they have. The industry also floated with us wanting further information about leave and leave provisions, which we are working on providing for them now. Today, Minister Twyford is on the East Coast talking to businesses directly about what they need. Employees who have found themselves in a position where they’ve been without work are able to access MSD support, and that is happening. All of the Government agencies are on the ground doing their job. In terms of the medium- and long-term impacts, we’re working with those sectors on them.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he acknowledge that the Government’s economic policies prior to the spread of coronavirus resulted in a projected growth rate of 1.6 percent in 2019 and a projected Budget deficit for this year?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I do acknowledge is that the Government’s economic policies have put us in a position to be able to respond well. We have net debt at a level where we are therefore able to borrow more if we need to in response to this, just as the previous National Government did in response to issues that it had to deal with. The New Zealand economy is in a strong position.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he argue that 1.6 percent growth in 2019 represented solid momentum?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is using an estimate of growth for 2019. When we compare ourselves to the rest of the world, and when, indeed, international organisations like the OECD and the IMF compare us to the rest of the world, they say that we’re doing well, that our current growth rates and our projected growth rates will be greater than most of our trading partners. I take their advice on this matter, but I’m also happy to listen to the advice of others. The Prime Minister has already quoted Cameron Bagrie; there was also Tim Hunter from ANZ, who said New Zealand is better placed than many countries to weather this shock, and I was grateful for the Leader of the Opposition retweeting that comment.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he agree it’s important now more than ever to have better growth policies and better control over wasteful spending so that we can get through the difficult months ahead?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What’s important is that we have stability and resilience in our economy, that we have the partners in our economy working closely together, and that we have public services that are in a position to respond to an outbreak such as this, not the run-down health system, the run-down education system, the poorly funded police force, and all of the other public services run down in the nine years of the National Government. We’ve been rebuilding them, which means we’re now in a position to respond well.

Question No. 4—Regional Economic Development

4. to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: What recent Provincial Growth Fund announcements have been made?

on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development: The coalition Government is committed to the provinces. We know that this Government is doing more to build homes in our communities, and one of the announcements I made was recently in Tokoroa. It came in two parts. The first part was about working with Waikato-Tainui. It was about working with the Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation in which we will be tailoring a 10-week programme to ensure that young people of Tokoroa and south Waikato have a pathway into a construction apprenticeship or, quite simply, a lifelong career in building. At the same time, at that same announcement, we were able to make an announcement on a hundred workers working on modular homes in the Tokoroa community. That means people are in that community working on building modular homes and earning while they learn. It’s a great outcome.

💬 Mark Patterson: What other Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) announcements have been made recently?

Good question. On behalf of the Minister, I think everyone saw Kaikōura as one of the town centres or one of the places that was at the heart of one of the most destructive earthquakes this country has ever seen. I have to acknowledge the work that was done by the previous Government and the continuing work of the coalition Government that has seen the Kaikōura community get to reset. Kaikōura came to the PGF and said “We need your help. This community could actually be doing more than standing still if this Government invested through the PGF.”, and we did that. We did that through $11 million into tourism and business infrastructure, and we did it through basic infrastructure on the coast itself, enabling more people to go out on those amazing tours that they do.

💬 Mark Patterson: How have these announcements been received in the regions?

It goes without saying that there’s been a lot of feedback for both the Minister and myself in the regions—or the under-secretary and myself, speaking on his behalf. The fact is that at Kaikōura, for example, one of the community leaders stood up and said this was the first time that the Government had been in and heard their pleas for their economic potential and their community and their ability to grow. The Mayor of South Waikato, Jenny Shattock, said, “We’re thrilled about the announcement, and I know it’s going to make a big difference, particularly the Emergent Skills project based in and around Tokoroa.” Thank you, Mr Speaker.

💬 Mark Patterson: Why have the provinces and regional New Zealand so strongly communicated their support for the PGF announcements that have been made to the Minister?

On behalf of the Minister, the point to be made in the House today is a simple one. The people of the provinces and our rural and regional communities have said one of the greatest aspects of the Provincial Growth Fund programme is that this programme is not only designed for the regions but the regions themselves have come to the PGF and told the PGF what they wanted, what they needed, and so this is what we have been working to. The businesses themselves, the communities themselves, have for the first time in a long time had a voice, and it has been a loud one, sir. Thank you.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: At Provincial Growth Fund announcements, how many times has he personally been crushed by National Party colleagues trying to get there for the announcement?

I have the privilege of working in both the Hawke’s Bay and the West Coast, and in every single announcement that I have made as the under-secretary, I have had the pleasure and the company of the National electorate MP, and they have been proud to be there to take photos and support such great work.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, Mr O’Connor might disagree with you, but we’ll continue anyway.

Question No. 5—Health

5. to the Minister of Health: Does he agree with the Prime Minister’s statement on the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak that New Zealand’s response has been “textbook”?

Yes, noting the full context of those comments, which were in relation to the first confirmed case of COVID-19. As the Prime Minister said on Saturday, New Zealand has one confirmed case. It is contained and it is being dealt with in a textbook fashion.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Was it a textbook response when a passenger arriving from Iran, visibly ill with virus symptoms, was able to leave Auckland Airport without health staff questioning the passenger?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: The member needs to be very careful with the assumptions that he is making. If he’s referring to the confirmed case, I can confirm that that passenger was in a wheelchair. We were aware they had mobility issues, and I can confirm that the passenger was wearing a face mask. I’m advised that due to public announcements in the airport, the passenger’s family knew to ring Healthline, which they did. As that member is aware, health officials are working closely with airport staff. Airport processes are being reviewed, of course, in relation to the incident. We are planning for a case to come to New Zealand. We have been planning for some time. Our plans were well advanced. We were well prepared when one arrived. This case shows the processes we have in place are working.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Did the passenger, who is now confirmed with COVID-19, get contact from health officials at Auckland Airport?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: As I said, the case is being reviewed. The person certainly was manually processed—[Interruption]—

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Answer the question.

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: —by customs staff, who were—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Some of us would like to hear the answer, and Mr Bennett and Dr Smith yelling doesn’t help.

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: The person certainly received health information. We know that that is why they phoned the helpline.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I realise I can’t be given a yes or no answer to the question, but I don’t even think the question was addressed.

💬 SPEAKER: No, that was almost certainly addressed, and I would’ve said “certainly” if it wasn’t rudely interrupted by his colleagues.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is it in the textbook that senior doctors at Wellington Hospital should complain that people with coronavirus-type symptoms are being refused tests for the virus?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: At every stage, our response has been driven by science and by health experts and doctors. There is a clear case definition, developed by experts, that clinicians are using when considering who should be tested. Last week, that definition was widened to include travel to several more countries. I will leave it to doctors to decide who should be tested rather than take advice from the Opposition on that.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: Why does the textbook response involve having health advice cards at airports that are six years old and list symptoms that are not consistent with those of COVID-19?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I reject the member’s assertion.

💬 Hon Tim Macindoe: Does he believe that it’s a textbook response for his Government and DHBs to fail to respond to requests from the Retirement Villages Association and the New Zealand Aged Care Association for urgent meetings around a coordinated response and the supply of critical medical supplies and safety equipment when elderly New Zealanders—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! How many questions?

💬 Hon Tim Macindoe: This is one question, sir.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, I’ve got three so far I think. The member will wind up.

💬 Hon Tim Macindoe: —I can only see one question here—in premises represented by those organisations are most vulnerable to the spread of COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Health professionals across New Zealand have been working very well together. They are following the New Zealand influenza pandemic plan. I note that was updated in August 2017 and has been tested by officials under this Government’s watch. The coordination, I think, in the circumstances, has been helped by the Government’s preparedness. From acting early to restrict our border access, we have kept COVID-19 out of New Zealand for longer than 48 other countries, and that has given us more time to be more prepared. I would argue that the coordination happening across the country is something that we ought to thank our health officials for.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Given he agrees with the Prime Minister that this was a textbook response, does he also agree with Professor Michael Baker of the Department of Public Health at Otago University that the response and management was exemplary at all stages?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Yes.

Question No. 6—Housing

6. to the Minister of Housing: Does she stand by her statement on 7 September 2019 with regard to a $400 million progressive home ownership scheme, “So what I’ve said is I’ll take the details around that to Cabinet by the end of the year, and we’re looking to have that up and running next year”; if so, exactly when this year will it be up and running?

Yes, and, as I outlined to the member in answer to written questions, Cabinet confirmed high-level design features of the progressive homeownership scheme in December last year, and good progress continues to be made on the detailed design. The member will be pleased to know that I will be making further announcements in the next couple of months. Finally, as I’ve also outlined to her in answer to written questions, I will be reporting back to Cabinet in May on progress we have made.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Does she agree with the Green Party co-leader who said on 4 September 2019 that the Green Party had secured a progressive homeownership scheme and “that it is what we are announcing today”?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: All three parties that make up our Government—both the coalition and the confidence and supply agreement—are all supportive of progressive homeownership schemes. We are a Government that has committed $400 million to progressive homeownership, the scale of which we have never seen in this country, and all three parties that form up this side of the House are immensely proud of that.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: In which month will she deliver on her promise to have a $400 million progressive homeownership scheme not just announced but up and running this year?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: As I outlined to the member in answer to my primary question, we will be making announcements on that in the next couple of months, and she will know all the details in the fullness of time.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: In what way is she working “very closely with organisations like Habitat for Humanity and the Housing Foundation” to get the scheme up and running when she has neither met nor corresponded with these housing suppliers since September last year?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Since September last year, we have had a full day of workshops with the community housing sector—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order!

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I’ll start the answer again, if I can.

💬 SPEAKER: The member will start again, and she’s going to be able to answer this supplementary with the Opposition in silence, and the Government members.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I am pleased to tell the member that since I met with the community housing providers in August last year, officials have been working constructively and productively with the community housing sector. For the member’s benefit, that has included a series of full-day workshops with the community housing sector, a series of workshops on specific issues, weekly teleconferences, and a number of individual engagements. I am pleased to report to that member that when I do meet with members of the community housing sector at other events, they tell me how delighted they are with the engagement and the progress we are making and how good it is to have a Government that is finally committed to progressive homeownership, because the previous Government certainly wasn’t.

Question No. 7—Health

7. to the Minister of Health: How is New Zealand’s public health service responding to the COVID-19 coronavirus?

New Zealand has taken strong precautionary actions that prioritise the safety of the New Zealand public. We make no apology for this. Last month, the Director-General of the World Health Organization asked countries to be as aggressive as possible in their containment efforts. Dr Tedros asked us not to squander the opportunity to prevent local transmission. We have responded to that call. By introducing travel restrictions early, we kept COVID-19 at bay for far longer than many other countries. That has given our health service more time to plan and to understand the virus. We are well prepared.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: What actions have our health service taken since the confirmation of the arrival of the first COVID-19 case in New Zealand on 28 February?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: On Saturday I visited Auckland Hospital and met with health professionals who are caring for this patient and testing for the virus. I’m pleased to report that, under their care, the patient continues to improve. Contact tracing for those who travelled in close proximity with this individual began immediately and has gone to plan. In line with the Government’s decisions this week, our health services have ramped up their presence at our airports. Health services have also stepped up their public information campaign, underlining the requirement for self-isolation, where appropriate, and the importance of basic hygiene.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: Is our response to COVID-19 consistent with the approach taken by other countries?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Internationally the situation with COVID-19 continues to develop apace. The Director-General of the World Health Organization said this morning that containment is feasible and must remain the top priority for all countries. This is exactly the approach New Zealand is taking, using three main tools: border controls, voluntary isolation, and good public health practices including highlighting the importance of basic hygiene. At every step, the Government has taken decisions in the interests of public safety, and so far we have been among the best at keeping COVID-19 at bay. Just yesterday, Cabinet decided to extend for another week the travel restrictions that have been in place for China since 3 February and for Iran since last Friday. These restrictions have played a role in keeping COVID-19 out of New Zealand for so long and have given us time to better understand the disease and ramp up our preparedness.

Question No. 8—Foreign Affairs

8. to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Does he stand by his statement in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade’s India strategy document titled India–New Zealand 2025: Investing in the Relationship, “Indian immigrants and students contribute skills and diversity to New Zealand’s economy and our communities”?

Yes. Unlike the Leader of the Opposition, we consider Indian people to be worth as much as anyone else. Unlike him, we don’t think “two Chinese are more valuable than two Indians”.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Is the Minister saying that a person of Indian ethnicity who wishes to undertake tertiary study in New Zealand is as a valuable in delivering skills and diversity to New Zealand’s economy and communities as other nationalities?

💬 Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well, the answer of course is yes.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Then can the Minister explain why India would trust New Zealand’s commitment to Goal 1 of the strategy that says—and I quote—“A relationship based on mutual trust that advances our shared interest.”, when his Cabinet colleague Shane Jones thought it appropriate to say, “I think the number of students that have come [to New Zealand] from India have ruined many … institutions.”?

💬 Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Mr Jones made it very clear this morning that he was expressing the views of some in the local Indian community—and I’ll recite them shortly—and that he was referring to fraud in the education system and exploitation of students. Can I just say this is a report that says, “young Indian migrant workers [are] easy targets for exploitation. Many are in breach of their visa conditions, fear deportation, and have large loans at high interest rates [in] service on top of the high cost of living here. In addition, they face discrimination, isolation, and exploitation, and are exploited within their own ethnic groups. Replication of the caste system further limits opportunities and progression for many while fear of the establishment and the perception of corruption stops migrants speaking out.”—that from the Indian Weekender. That’s an Indian paper, the Indian Weekender; are they racist too?

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: If the Minister is publicly now supporting the comments of Mr Jones, was the Prime Minister incorrect to say that he was wrong?

💬 Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Mr Jones made it very clear what he was referring to. I’ve just recited the Indian weekend newspaper as an authority. But let me go further: these issues were highlighted by the Migrant Workers Association and the Indian Workers’ Association on a number of occasions when the previous administration was in Government. That’s precisely what we’re cleaning up.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: If the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Deputy Prime Minister, is now supporting Mr Jones in his statements, was the Prime Minister incorrect to call him wrong?

💬 Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Let me make it very clear that Mr Jones has these authorities: the New Zealand Herald on 5 December 2016—here it is: “ ‘We need to blow the whole thing apart and start being honest about what’s happening’ … who the Herald has agreed not to name. ‘Because it’s not about education at all.’ ” This is from The New Zealand Herald. RNZ, again, 12 September 2016: “Indian community leaders have warned [them] of … backlash because Indian students are increasingly running into problems including prostitution, crime, … exploitation by employers.” We’ve got page after page after page of Indians saying this was happening under the previous administration—and we’re fixing it up, and that’s how we’re going to build trust.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Any review of the answer to that question would find that it had very little to do in answer to the question.

💬 SPEAKER: It may be that the material was somewhat supplemented, and it could have been cut off earlier, but it was certainly addressed early on.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The right honourable gentleman said he wished to make it clear; then, he proceeded to read out his list of newspaper articles, which presumably means that he does support the Hon Shane Jones and his interesting comments.

💬 SPEAKER: Is that a point of order?

💬 Hon Member: Yes it is.

💬 SPEAKER: No, it’s an expression of opinion, and normally you want a ruling.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: The point is that there was no answer to the question as to whether the Prime Minister was incorrect and inappropriate in telling Mr Jones that he was wrong.

💬 SPEAKER: I think the member was asking a question where it was slightly more nuanced than that. If the member wants a further supplementary, he can have another go.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. That is not correct. The Hansard record will show exactly what my question was. My question simply was to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Winston Peters: was his support for Shane Jones indicating that the Prime Minister was incorrect in saying that Shane Jones was wrong. I got no answer to that.

💬 SPEAKER: I’ve ruled that it was addressed. [Interruption] No one’s got the floor at the moment, so is the member finished? [Interruption] Order! That’s not helpful.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: I’m not sure what this is going to be, either.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well, you asked me a question, so I’d like to answer it. You asked me was I finished. What I would reply is that I’m not finished, but I think he is. Ha, ha!

💬 SPEAKER: The member will now stand, withdraw, and apologise. Mr Brownlee, before you tweet what you are saying, you will withdraw and apologise.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: All right. I withdraw and apologise.

Question No. 9—Police

9. to the Minister of Police: Is he satisfied his policies are getting ahead of incidences of organised crime and gang activity in New Zealand?

Yes, particularly our plans to bring in tougher penalties for gun crime under the Arms Legislation Bill, which the National Party is trying to block. The changes will prevent a gang member from ever holding a firearms licence, which they could under the previous Government. I agree with Gun Control NZ, which today have said that National is trying to “make it easier for crims, gangs, and extremists to get their hands on firearms”.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Can he confirm new figures released this morning that show a 32 percent increase in gang numbers under his watch, with over 7,000 people now recorded on the National Gang List?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: What I can confirm is 2,000 new police under our watch. That is over double what the previous Government promised to deliver. Thanks to the coalition Government, there are 2,000 more police in our communities fighting gang harm and keeping us safe.

💬 SPEAKER: I’m going to rule that the member must address the question.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Gang numbers have increased, but if that member believes they’ve increased under our Government, he is wrong. It is widely acknowledged that when Australian gangs became established here in 2011, the next year police numbers fell by 150. In fact, under the previous term of that Government, police numbers fell. Under our Government so far: 2,000 new police out in our communities.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: Can he say his policies are working if gangs recruited almost 100 new members in 30 days in December of last year?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Let me tell you about another policy in my area. It’s called the gang focus unit, set up, according to the District Commander, because of the new numbers. The gang focus unit in Hawke’s Bay has made over 100 arrests, over 250 convictions, and the only reason that gang focus unit is there is because of 2,000 more police into our communities, and that is over double the number promised under that Government.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: If the Minister keeps telling us that there’s over 2,000 more police on the street, why are gang members going up daily?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Let me give you another example. I was in Warkworth, that member’s electorate, where there are now over 100 percent more police than there were under his Government, and for the first time ever, the Warkworth police station is open 24/7, under this coalition Government. Fantastic.

💬 Hon Mark Mitchell: How is the Minister going to stop the Comanchero gangs from moving into my electorate of Warkworth?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Well, that’s interesting, because I remember when the Hon Judith Collins, when she was Minister of Police, said she was going to crush the Australian gangs, and she did nothing. What we have done is, of the 2,000 more police—of the 2,000 more police—a whole chunk of these are going into organised crime, and I could give numerous examples of where we have in fact made significant—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order!

💬 Hon Judith Collins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: I hope it’s not going to be to dispute an answer, because the member knows that she can’t do that by point of order.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Well, no. I’ll have to take a privileges complaint, I suppose. That would be a shame, wouldn’t it?

Question No. 10—Small Business

10. to the Minister for Small Business: What recent announcements has he made about making it easier for small businesses to get paid on time?

New Zealand is fortunate to be ranked number one in the world for ease of doing business, but we are not complacent. We continue to look for ways to keep up the momentum in the economy and to enhance the business climate. Research by Xero shows that at any given time, more than half of small businesses are owed at least $7,000, and on the average invoices, are paid up to one week late. I have announced that I am prepared to legislate if payment terms and payment times for small businesses do not improve. I have asked affected groups to comment on the idea, and look forward to hearing that feedback after public consultation closes next month. This Government remains focused on protecting jobs and supporting workers and businesses.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: What are the key elements he is proposing in the consultation document?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: As a former sole trader myself, I understand when businesses, sole traders, and chambers of commerce tell me that cash flow is king. Late payments from large organisations to small suppliers can be crippling for these businesses. The discussion document seeks the public views on legislation that would require a maximum payment term of 20 days to ensure small businesses are reimbursed for their services more quickly, and the right for small businesses to charge interest on overdue invoices, and debt recovery fees for late payment. I am prepared to legislate if necessary, to set minimum standards for payment terms.

💬 Dr Deborah Russell: What reports has he seen in response to announcements around legislating for prompt payment times for small businesses?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Craig Hudson from Xero: “Time for [small and medium businesses] not to be [the] bank offering interest free loans! Great commitment … Stuart Nash”. From Andy Hamilton, The Icehouse: “This is good to potentially great for SMEs—well done … Stuart Nash … and let’s hope it can change behaviour and payments to SMEs”. Jeremy Lorne, a builder: “Late payments are a common thing in the building industry.” During the Christmas break, he had a client with an emergency in their roof, who called in all sorts of favours to get it fixed. Jeremy is still waiting to be paid, even though he had to pay for all services and supplies to do the job in the first place.

Question No. 11—Police

11. to the Minister of Police: Does he have confidence in the ability of the Police to carry out search warrants appropriately when searching for prohibited firearms?

Yes.

💬 David Seymour: How can the Minister have that confidence when four heavily armed police recently raided a family home, with children in it, looking for firearms their own records showed had already been handed in?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I have confidence in the Commissioner of Police, and it’s always been my expectation that the police will operate within the law.

💬 David Seymour: When the Minister does learn of that failing, will it dent his confidence in police to undertake other matters, such as registering a million firearms, when they couldn’t keep track of four?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: In terms of a search warrant, let me just advise the member on the process of obtaining such. In the vast majority of cases, the police first have to present evidence of a requirement to a judge, who will then sign off on a search warrant only if he or she believes it is justified.

Question No. 12—Regional Economic Development

I seek leave to revise the wording of the oral question to correct the name of the individual named in the question.

Is there any objection to that? There is. Can I just say, we had some problems—I think on the last sitting day—with regard to very late changes to questions. In this particular case, I was informed about a quarter of an hour before the House sat of the reliance on a television report for the spelling of an individual’s name, which, as it turned out, was incorrect. I thought, rather than have a very late change again and cause consternation, I would recommend to the member that he seek the leave of the House in order to change it to the man’s correct name rather than the name that was incorrectly spelt in a Television New Zealand website report.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The problem with that is that it’s my belief—and the research that we’ve done on behalf of Shane Jones in this respect—that the whole story’s incorrect, and that’s our point. That’s why we’re not going to grant him leave.

In that particular case, the member will ask the question as it is on the order paper.

12. to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Has he seen the comments of Southland business owner Colin Hitchell in relation to the Provincial Growth Fund officials, “They said they’d come to Southland because they’d overspent in Northland and they were down here to even the score”, and is it correct that there is a desire by officials to spend more in Southland in comparison with Northland?

on behalf of the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Yes. I have seen the comments, and, like the question, they are utterly incorrect.

💬 Chris Bishop: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Just in relation to the second part of the question, I don’t believe the Minister answering on behalf of the Minister addressed the second part of that question.

💬 SPEAKER: He said it’s completely incorrect. If half the answers were as straight and direct as that one, the place would be a lot happier.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why did provincial development unit staff reportedly say to Mr Hitchen, after he told them he was interested in buying $480,000 of new equipment, “That’s not enough. You must be able to do better than that.”?

Well, first of all, it is usual for the Provincial Growth Fund staff to go through an application, look at the fiscals, and sometimes say, “You have not applied for enough to make this stand up.” That’s happened all over this country by independent and neutral assessors, and that’s how it happened. But, as for the rest of the story, referring to Southland and Northland, that is a fiction.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why did provincial development unit staff reportedly say to Mr Hitchen “We need you to ask for at least this amount now, if not more.”, and ask “why were we being so cagey as when they were in Northland, no one worried about paying this back. We may not revisit this place and see how you are going.”?

Again, this is a very good commentary on the New Zealand media. This story is run by TVNZ without any evidence or substance whatsoever, which probably suggests and gives you the reason why RNZ and TVNZ are having a row right now.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is it correct provincial development unit staff offered to fill out the Provincial Growth Fund application form for Mr Hitchen on the basis that time was of the essence and the money had to be drawn down as soon as possible?

Again, officials have always completed the application for many, many applicants. [Interruption] Yes, they have. [Interruption] Well, we don’t deny people the right to make an application simply because they can’t complete the form. That’s the difference between this Government and that group over there. But here’s the point—here’s the point—this was from a feasibility study two years prior to that, and yet it failed. Again, here’s a full-scale investigation into a failed application. That’s a new one in Western democracy.

💬 Chris Bishop: Is he saying to the Parliament that in the hundreds, probably thousands, of applications to the Provincial Growth Fund so far, all of those application forms have always been filled out by officials, not the people actually seeking the money?

Again, that’s not what was said here. What was said here—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. This is an important issue, and I want the answer to be heard. When people—probably about 15 members on that occasion—start yelling, even with the not gentle voice of the Deputy Prime Minister, I’m having trouble hearing him. The Deputy Prime Minister will answer, and the rest of the House will be silent.

The reality is that in hundreds of cases, the applications are worked through with the applicants and the Provincial Growth Fund staff, and frequently they assist in the completion of the application form. That’s normal with any law office, accounting office, and any other assessing office but not with respect to the National Party, clearly.

💬 Chris Bishop: Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: No. The questions for the Opposition have been used.