Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill

on behalf of the Minister for Children: I move, That the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill be now read a third time.

This omnibus bill gives full effect to policies that will be enacted by the Children, Young Persons, and their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act 2017. The most significant of these policies is the expansion of youth justice jurisdiction to include 17-year-olds. The bill will ensure the intent of the expanded youth justice jurisdiction is applied consistently from 1 July of this year. The bill also ensures urgent interim court orders related to custody, guardianship, or restraint are made in line with intended and established processes. The bill also makes technical and consequential amendments to 11 Acts and a related set of regulations, which have been discussed in the House before. The bill will come into force on 1 July 2019.

The bill had its first reading on 2 April this year, where it was widely acknowledged that Parliament should ensure there is consistency across the youth justice system. The bill does this through changes that are consistent with, or consequential to, the policy to include 17-year-olds in the expanded youth justice jurisdiction; for example, to bail laws, sentencing laws, and aspects of criminal procedure.

I know that some of the bill’s amendments, while consequential to that policy, are technically complex, and on behalf of the Minister for Children I acknowledge the Social Services and Community Committee for grappling with these technical issues quickly and efficiently and recommending changes to the bill which mean that the bill covers a number of common scenarios, including where 17-year-olds are facing related charges.

The select committee’s recommended changes were discussed at the second reading and committee of the whole House. Some of the select committee’s amendments covering related charges were clarified by the Minister’s Supplementary Order Paper 247, which was discussed earlier. I want to thank the members of the House for their contributions, on behalf of the Minister, in the committee of the whole House.

Together, the bill and the Supplementary Order Paper will improve the certainty and workability of the law. The bill in its final form will give clear guidance on procedure within the youth justice system, including for related charges. This bill will support the judiciary, the New Zealand Police, and other key stakeholders to treat 17-year-olds consistently through all parts of the youth justice jurisdiction.

As has been outlined throughout the parliamentary process by the Minister for Children, the bill also clarifies the operation of urgent interim orders that may be required in court proceedings under the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989. The processes surrounding urgent interim court orders were developed to serve the best interests of the child and should be maintained. The bill makes sure these processes will continue to operate effectively from 1 July. The bill also fixes other minor drafting errors in the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act 2017 and a cross-referencing error in the Children’s Commissioner Act of 2003. Again, the changes, while technical, mean the law will function as clearly as possible for all relevant stakeholders.

Overall, the bill makes a positive contribution to the workability of the law, particularly where it concerns treating our young people consistently. I commend the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to take a call in this third reading of the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill. I want to acknowledge the Minister who has just read the speech in the third reading, Kris Faafoi, and acknowledge that on behalf of the Minister herself, the Hon Tracey Martin as well. In fact, we couldn’t think of a better Minister to do this. He is kind, he’s caring, and, in some cases, he’s cuddly to his community. I just want to commend him and thank him for his words. I think his words—even though he wasn’t part of the process—were very genuine, and I want to congratulate him on eventually, at the end of the month, becoming a Cabinet Minister, because I think he deserves that as well. He emanates the very heart of this bill.

I want to acknowledge, first and foremost, the work that was previously done by the Hon Anne Tolley. The work around this was the transformation and change of the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, then moved on to the Oranga Tamariki legislation which is before us in the second part of that amendment to that work as well. I want to also acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin, who’s taken on and championed this cause.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you will know—oh, sorry, I do apologise; I do not want to bring you into the debate, but the Hon Anne Tolley knew and was aware of the importance of allowing a whole of community—those who are stakeholders, those who have been impacted by the system, not only in the care and protection but also in the youth justice, which particularly relates to this bill. We needed to make the system fairer, just, caring, and, in a way, deal with the transitions of change through many of our young people who come in to the system as well. So the heart of this bill—an omnibus bill, so it reflects a number of different changes; 11 in particular—is about tightening up a process and procedures, particularly relating to 17-year-olds within the youth justice jurisdiction. There was a time previously, in 2015 to 2016, when there were changes to the care and protection, and the age of State care for young people was raised to the age of 18. This again aligns that to the youth justice jurisdiction, which aligns that age for 17-year-olds up to the age of 18 in the system as well.

We also want to acknowledge that this is part of a transformation that’s significantly important. Those of us right across the House are supporting it for that particular reason. The purpose of these changes is in particular for vulnerable children, and as has been discussed through the second reading and also the committee stage, often the victims of crime are in particular, in this case, those in the youth justice system as well. So we want to ensure that the system deals adequately with the consequences of those actions. It could be dealing with recidivist behaviour, but at the same time, too, it wants to ensure that we have a transition of change that allows them to go on to live normal, productive lives in our communities as well. So the purpose of the changes to be made is to ensure that vulnerable children and young people have the best chance to have a safe, stable, and loving home, which will help them to grow into successful, independent adults as well.

The majority of the reforms under this Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, now the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill, will come into force on 1 July as well. Now, we do note that the only objection to this process has been in regards to the timing, but, that being said, we’re here now. We do support this right across the House.

I do want to say that there have been times in the debates, even in the committee stage, where the small things actually count, when we’ve joked across with each other about the counting of paper clips. More importantly, how do we count those little things that actually do make a difference? My colleagues across the House there Greg O’Connor and Priyanca Radhakrishnan will know we had many debates about this. Is it important to count the little things that actually matter? I think they do, and this bill goes to prove that. Supplementary Order Paper 247 talks about the small, technical changes that do make a difference. They may be as small as a paper clip, but in actual fact, if we don’t reverse that, then, retrospectively, we will not have made changes to ensure that we follow through with the intent of this bill as well. So those changes—and I won’t go through the Supplementary Order Paper; we did discuss it in the committee stage. We felt it was fair and just. We hope, again, that the intent of this was to create a fairer process.

The only thing that we would say—and the caveat that we had in some of our debates was ensuring that there’s capacity and capability within the system when those changes are made on 1 July in 2019, this year. We’ve been assured of that. We just hope that there won’t be unintended consequences. We know that currently, even for those in care at the moment, because of raising the age, we have approximately 6,300 children in care. That has been increased. We hope that this process will start to reduce that number and there’ll be greater efficiencies. Inside of the bill, part of the reducing of that is the efficiency so that if there are Schedule 1A offences, which carry a maximum penalty of up to 14 years—the severity of those offences—and non - Schedule 1A, they can be heard in one place, in a District Court, and in those cases, then it’s up to the judiciary to then preside over that situation and make the decisions accordingly.

So we commend this bill. We think it’s actually an important part of what will help change the system. We on this side support that. Again, the only caveat that we have is that we would hope that the capacity and capability of the system—we’re talking about residential care facilities for youth justice, we’re talking about the extra social workers that will be needed, those who are counsellors, lawyers. There are a number of key stakeholders inside of this. So while we will pass this legislation today, heading through to Royal assent, then being implemented on 1 July—that’s actually so that now begins the ability for the action to begin. So our hope, again, is that that will be carried out in a way that will benefit the outcomes of our youth and our young people in our communities as well.

So we on this side of the House again acknowledge all the work. We want to acknowledge the officials who spent some time with us over this process as well, and, again, finally, we want to acknowledge that at the end of the day, though we’ve had this debate, though as legislators we’re now putting this bill before the House and then out, eventually, into the community, our intent and our hope right across Parliament is that in our communities—where there are young people who have become the victims of crime and who have become perpetrators of crime as well—this will be a pathway and a process that allows them to be able to continue to go on to live better lives. We would hope that whānau and family that are out there will also see that there’s a role of opportunity to participate in the rehabilitation and changing of lives as well, and at the same time, too, the outcome is what we intend would happen so they will continue to go on to live productive, independent lives. We commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is with pleasure that I rise to make a short contribution to the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill, particularly, with pleasure, having been part of the select committee that considered this bill, the Social Services and Community Committee—a select committee that works very well together but, as the Hon Alfred Ngaro alluded to, does talk about paper clips an awful lot.

Anyway, this bill, the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill, will, when it’s passed, give full effect to the policy to expand the youth justice jurisdiction to include 17-year-olds. It is an omnibus bill that will make amendments to 11 Acts to ensure that the intent of that expanded youth justice jurisdiction is applied in a way that is consistent across all criminal justice processes from 1 July 2019, through changes that are consistent. As members have said before, it makes some very technical but very important changes to ensure that our criminal justice system can work well when it comes to 17-year-olds and the change that was made by a piece of legislation in 2017.

There were some changes that were worked on and were recommended by the select committee that have been included since into this bill, and those are changes around managing the process for related charges for 17-year-olds. These were quite technical changes that officials, sort of, walked us through. There were different permutations and combinations that we worked through, but, ultimately, they’ve been included to reduce costs by avoiding inefficiencies in the legal system and not wasting court time and resources. So there were quite a few technical changes that we considered through the process at select committee, and so I want to thank officials who took the time and made the effort to step through those changes with us. I also want to thank submitters who took their time to put in written submissions to this bill to improve it. With that, I commend this bill to the House.

Oh, look, I’m delighted to be talking on this bill again. It’ll become a—

💬 Hon Ruth Dyson: Ten minutes—you’ve got 10 minutes, Simon.

Whether it’s a surprise for the Hon Ruth Dyson or not whether I take 10 minutes or not, we’ll be yet to see. Look, I’m really pleased to speak on this third reading. For me, the themes are somewhat similar to what I raised in the second reading but not completely, and that’s, obviously, that this side of the House supports the bill. We think it’s overall a very good bill, and in twofold sense: one, it’s making sure that some minor drafting errors are tidied up, and, secondly, it’s to bring about, effectively, a policy intent to allow 17-year-olds to be tried in the Youth Court rather than in the full adult courts. I mentioned before that I think that, by and large, is a good idea. Fundamentally, I think it’s actually an expression of being young and youthfulness, the acknowledgement by this House that at 17, you are in many ways still young—not quite a child, but, rightly, not in the full adult court.

The second is, again, just from experience of dealing with young people that have gone through the system and those that eventually ended up in the prisons: that any way we can find to keep them out of that situation as early on as possible will make an enormous difference, first and foremost to them, and to society as a whole. We know through the research—in fact, those who have been Ministers in this field before would probably know a lot more than I do, but, fundamentally, a lot of time, money, and effort is saved if we can actually get to these young people first.

The concept of the bill is relatively simple. As I say, it’s just ensuring that those who are 17 can be tried in the Youth—not adult—Court, but, importantly, there’s lots of little technicalities, as the speaker who’s just resumed her seat, Priyanca Radhakrishnan noted. There are a whole lot of situations that we need to account for, and this bill does that. First and foremost, there’s been a requirement that there are family conferences if there’s an intention to charge—that is, the police intend to charge. That will not be the case if someone has done an incredibly serious offence. In fact, I’ve been remiss in not noting that the bill—very quickly; I think it’s in Schedule 1—makes a distinction for a young person that has done, well, effectively, an incredibly serious crime versus a non-serious crime. I’m not going to go through all of those, but, basically, if the youth is involved in, well, murder—let’s just go to the extreme—they’re still going to go through the adult court. But in cases where it’s a lesser offence—I won’t get into what that might be in case I put my foot in it or begin to; yeah, we won’t get into the distinction or nuances. But I think the House can understand there is a difference.

So we’re saying through this bill that a family conference, when it’s not needed—they, effectively, can be suspended if it’s a much more serious crime. The bill looks at what happens if the 17-year-old is jointly charged with another person. It makes provisions there, in effect, to make sure that there is going to be one trial. In my view, that’s not, first and foremost, for the need of the 17-year-old; it’s for the needs of the victims—or the alleged victims, sorry. They don’t need to turn up to court twice for two, three, four different people who might be charged with the same offences.

There’s obviously a question around mixed pleas. Again, often criminality is not a singular action; a person will have done two, three, four, five, etc. actions which lead to the subsequent number of charges. The bill looks at that quite specifically—that if, in effect, the 17-year-old has done some minor but also so incredibly major, very serious crimes, it’s the latter that, in effect, takes precedence. In other words, again, to use a very simple or simplified example, if the 17-year-old has committed murder and, I don’t know, a bit of shoplifting at the same time, the former charge takes precedence as to the court.

So we think it’s a prudent bill. As I said, it was always the intention, as I understand things, for the National Party, as it introduced the changes to Oranga Tamariki, to bring about these changes. They take time, they take thought, so I think, again, this side of the House is pleased that we’ve reached this stage. We hope, ultimately, that it’s good for the young people and for their families and that through this system, if they do find themselves before the courts, the experience is slightly better than it would be in the adult courts. Look, thanks does go to all those who have been involved.

This was a very speedy process. I probably will end somewhat by indicating a little concern continuing, certainly from myself on this side, at the speed of the process. It was good that some people had an opportunity to speak, but we would certainly encourage the Government, when it’s bringing legislation like this to the House, to allow people to have time to share their views and for us as the Opposition to do our job alongside the Government to critique the bill. We still feel that the bill, while we understand that it needs to be done and dusted by 1 July, hence the rush—just an encouragement to the Government to actually table these bills earlier so we can get going.

So I’m really pleased to commend this bill to the House, to support it, and not to annoy the Hon Ruth Dyson for another 4 minutes and 34 seconds.

Just those closing comments by the speaker opposite, Simon O’Connor, regarding his intention or his teasing of the whip about whether he would speak for 10 minutes—I was afraid he would and I’d have to be nudged by one of my fellow MPs to awake for my turn to speak. Well, I’m pleased that 6 minutes and 43 seconds was the length of the speech.

This whole concept around this legislation, which is that 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds will now come under the youth justice legislation—there’s a moment that relates to the relevance of this. I remember sitting in a briefing of police officers about to go on duty at Auckland Central, and the intelligence officer was briefing the staff, and he announced that one of their prolific offenders, who was a 16-year-old, would be turning 17 at the end of the month. That news was met by a cheer from all the police officers present, because their concept was that all of a sudden this person could be dealt with in the adult jurisdiction, and there would be some meaningful sanctions applied. So with this legislation, that’s why this bill actually becomes very important, and what we’re doing, the work we’re doing today, becomes very important, because if we don’t get it right, it will simply move that situation to 17, to 18, and those same cheers will come up when someone turns 18.

Looking at this, I think there are some safeguards in here that put some more strength in this to achieve what it sets out to achieve. Previous speakers on both sides have spoken about the mistakes that people make deliberately, or they end up in bad company, but things go wrong when they’re youths, and it’s important that those mistakes, those actions, don’t put them on the escalator which means that they will never be able to get off. Of course, what we’ve seen is the older you are when you get into the system, and the longer you are in the system, the more difficult it is to get off that escalator.

So in terms of things in the bill like Schedule 1A offences, people who are 17-year-olds who are committing adult offences will now be dealt with in the general court, the adult court, but they can also be dealt with as youths. So I think that the basis of this bill gives the youth offenders one more year to actually get themselves off the escalator of crime, off the escalator of a life that will end up going down a path where nobody wants them to go. So that’s why I look at this bill and I’m quite happy to commend it the House, because I think it does do those things that it intended to do. So I commend this bill to the House, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Today we stand to pass a series of provisions that we should simply not have to do, because the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill deals with the end result of lives of abuse and degradation that so many children in New Zealand face today. The specifics of the bill that we are supporting at third reading today deal with youths who have fallen through the cracks and ended up in the justice system at the beginning of their adult lives. What a waste, to have to have this bill, yet we must have it, because the youths this legislation deals with have committed serious crimes punishable by sentences of 14 years or more.

Yet these youths are not the product of chance. They are not an unavoidable consequence of growing up—not all. These children, these young people, were placed on paths laid down by the parenting they received, the abuse they faced, the lack of care in their lives. It is beyond comprehension that any healthily raised child, the product of supportive parents, supportive households, supportive whānau and friends, and a supportive society could end up committing heinous crimes such that they face a sentence of 14 years or more at the age of 17.

Let’s think about that, fellow members of this House. Let’s for a moment put aside our political colours and think about our own children. Let’s ask ourselves what we would have to neglect to do with the raising of our own children to have them facing a prison sentence of 14 years or more. Let’s ask ourselves what we as parents would want, should we have been responsible for placing our children on a pathway that would lead them to the prospect of prison at the age of 17. There’s no ifs and buts—we would want them taken out of circumstances that would lead to an awful outcome such as prison and placed in a caring and supportive environment to ensure the best possible life prospect for our children. That’s what Oranga Tamariki is really about: trying to get the best possible outcome when a child’s life circumstances see them bereft of the parenting that would enable them to lead healthy, productive, and loving lives.

Let’s not kid ourselves. This bill is not even the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff; rather, it is the undertaker taking away the cadaver of a life that could have been. It is the undertaker taking away the remnants of hope, of dreams, of desires that all children have for their lives that are then shattered by horrible decisions these same children make in their youthhood that see them facing 14 years or more in prison. Even in the worst of upbringings, children still see others leading good lives and wish desperately that that was them. Of course, this is not all children raised in depravation. My heart soars every time I hear a story of a child refusing to be a statistic through force of will, determined to walk the path of goodness, of decency, of compassion, and through strength of character, able to steer away from a path that would see them otherwise exposed to the provisions we are dealing with today.

Yesterday in the Social Services and Community Committee, I asked the Hon Tracey Martin, “What does change look like? What is transformation?” I asked in tears, not to put the Minister under the spotlight but out of distress and wanting to make a difference so I wouldn’t have to read about the lost lives of children and other abuse we hear too often in society today. The Minister replied in tears herself, because the murder of a baby in our country is not only distressing; it transcends politics. It forces the Minister and I, as mothers, to face the reality of poor parenting in this country, and it forces us to have to work collaboratively to try and put an end to this horror and to make the provisions we are passing today obsolete.

The bill before us today is but part of a wider attempt to stem the tragic loss of children’s lives at the hands of people they need to be able to rely on to bring them to the fullness of their lives. This bill is but part of an attempt to ensure the provisions we are passing today do not have to be used by the courts for children who have fallen through the cracks. This is not about politics; this is about trying to stop the relentless stories of child murders, child abuse, and those abused children becoming the perpetrators of crime that the provisions before us today deal with. There are no winners in the passing of these provisions today. There is only tragedy.

Oranga Tamariki is about supporting families to prioritise stability, education, and engaged and connected parents and extended families to ensure a child never need to be removed from his or her home, and to never be subject to the provisions we must pass today. It’s about moving us as a society that in the future does not have to wake the news of another child murdered, another child abused, another youth standing ready to be convicted of a crime that their dysfunctional upbringing and inability to make good decisions set them on that path. Mr Assistant Speaker, I commend this bill to the House.

Tēnā koe. Tēnā koutou, ngā mema o Te Whare nei. I’m pleased stand in support of this Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill in the third reading. It’s primarily a bit of a tidy-up and to get some consistencies happening between legislation that needed to be changed, and fixing some errors related to interim orders in the Oranga Tamariki legislation from 2017, particularly because we’re about to start the effect of some of those legislation changes from July 2019—very soon.

My other colleagues have already gone through the, sort of, technical details of fixing up some of those errors and catching up on some of the changes that we needed to make, given the drafting errors in the 2017 Act and the Children’s Commissioner Act in 2003, so there’s a bit of cross-referencing that needs to be done. In my short contribution, what I wanted to focus on is the important start, I’ll say, of the consequential amendments of this bill that were missed when previous changes were made to raise the upper age of the youth justice jurisdiction to 17 years old. So we’re tidying that up—we’re catching up and tidying that part of the legislation up. Why I’m pleased to help progress this bill through the House is to make sure we’ve got this start nice and tight for July.

I say “start”. I was pleased to see Minister Little refer to it being, you know, a bigger conversation about preventing further offending—and, in fact, that we had long been chastised for not including 17-year-olds by the United Nations for a long time. So it’s good to see that we’ve finally started, and that perhaps this is a start. We could look at, for example, Croatia and the Netherlands, who actually go right up to the age of 23, understanding cognitive and emotional development, the types of behaviours that exist around the sort of late teen adolescent behaviour age group—the brain working that stuff out and people finding their way through that age range actually continues through to the mid-20s. And everyone is different—a little bit early, a little bit after that. But what that means is there but for the grace of—any of us could probably think back, some of us further, some of us nearer, to where we were at that time. We’ve probably got some stories, each of us, but, more importantly, some safety support systems that kept us OK while we fumbled around through that part of life. The court jurisdiction recognises that. The court jurisdiction recognises the extra support that is need. That doesn’t suddenly change when you turn 17 or 18. Even Germany, I think, goes right up to 21.

So this is a good start, but I’m really open to an ongoing conversation that is focused on preventing further reoffending, that is focused on: how do we really approach young people coming before our justice system, what is our approach to their offence, how do we involve community and whānau and how do we ensure supports are put in place, and what are the punitive measures that we are doling out? You know, because we’ve all been at that place of peer pressure and risk taking and impulsive behaviour. As my colleague Greg O’Connor also referred to, then once we’re in adult prison at a young age, what are the links and what hook-ups happen in there for us to be put on a risky path of further reoffending or not?

This is important. This is crucial to a better, a safer, way of dealing with young people appearing before our justice system. This is crucial to the wider discussion of preventing further reoffending, which all of us, I think, have touched on tonight. So it is for that reason that the Greens—and we have a restorative justice approach—support the catch-up and tidy-up changes that are made being made in this bill. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.

As we draw this legislative process to its conclusion, I take the opportunity today to pay tribute to its genesis, back in 2017, when the then National-led Government passed the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act; and to the recognition that day by the Hon Bill English and the Hon Anne Tolley that our statistics were showing us that the lives of some of our more vulnerable young people were not improving and that simply throwing more and more money at the problem was not actually improving the outcomes of some of our more vulnerable and deprived families. So the Oranga Tamariki Act was the transformational legislation, and it progresses here today into this new Act that brings 17-year-olds into the youth justice system.

We know—because we are getting better and better at recording the data—that children that live in those benefit-dependent homes have poorer educational outcomes. They have more chance of coming, in those days, under the influence of Child, Youth and Family services or police; and that we needed to change direction because that was also becoming quite a significant burden on the hard-working taxpayers of New Zealand. That approach was called the social investment approach, and Oranga Tamariki is the change that we, as a country, needed. So I acknowledge the Minister, the Hon Tracey Martin, for her support of that change, because the change needs to transcend electoral cycles. It deserves longevity if it is going to make a change to the lives of our most vulnerable in New Zealand. It will take some time for it to be fully implemented; this is another step along that journey.

Now, the purpose of this bill is to bring 17-year-olds into the youth justice system. It is considered—and this was confirmed by the Children’s Commissioner Judge Andrew Becroft—that 17-year-olds were considered too young to be dealt with in the adult court because the likely outcome for them was to then be involved in an adult prison. That is not a place for a 17-year-old; we are all agreed on that. So it is, indeed, a good move to see this legislation being put in place so that our under-18s are no longer being treated as adult criminals, with the risk of heading off into adult prison.

Because they will now come under the guardianship of Oranga Tamariki, they will have all the opportunities and support provided to them by Oranga Tamariki and their support agencies. It’s been part of the interrogation of the Social Services and Community Committee throughout the process to ensure that the systems are completely ready for 1 July when this legislation will be enacted, because we need to make sure that the homes are fit for purpose, that the legal system and the judiciary are prepared, and that our staff are fully trained to deal with the extra workload. We have been given absolute assurance that that is the case but I will pay some attention, especially, to the facilities that are provided for in rural areas, because it is very easy to look at economies of scale and often that happens in the big cities, the metro areas. But it is completely inappropriate for a 17-year-old to be remanded in custody in a police cell, and we do need to have those facilities available throughout the country.

The opportunity that is given to 17-year-olds now through the youth justice system means that they do have an opportunity now to change their direction. We heard a statistic that about 80 percent of those who are supported at that age do not reoffend, and so I think this is a very good investment into their lives but also into the New Zealand community as a whole. I was very impressed, too, when we spoke with Oranga Tamariki and the Minister, that they have implemented their care plans, and I was also very impressed to learn that they had maintained the input of care-experienced young people in the development of that plan. I think that bodes well for the future because it is appropriate for the age group.

I did want to make one point of clarification about what members of the public may be thinking if they think that the National Party is getting soft on crime, because that’s not the case, because 17-year-olds that are charged with Schedule 1A offences—the more serious end of the offending scale, and they are cases where they can attract a prison sentence of 14 years or more—will still be dealt with in the adult court. So this is not providing an easy out, because some of the concern was that we would see the likes of gangs recruiting 17-year-olds because they would get a lighter sentence. Well, that’s not the case. They will be dealt with in the adult court for those more serious offences.

This has been a non-contentious bill. The Social Services and Community Committee has worked well together to come to this point, because we all believe that the impacts of this bill and the rights and interests of our 17-year-olds are well-served by it. I commend the bill to the House.

This is a split call, five minutes.

There are many big things that we do in this Parliament, there are many important things that we do. But it’s hard to think of what would be more important than using our opportunity and privilege as members of Parliament to turn around, in a positive way, the lives of young people so that they might get back on track and be able to contribute fully in our society, rather than going down the path of leading a life of crime. This bill, even though it’s primarily technical in its nature, contributes to that goal. It’s really refreshing to hear the whole of Parliament’s view in support of this because that gives us a much more solid platform to go forward on in our youth justice system, because there’s still a lot to do in this space.

So the bill clarifies the operation of urgent interim orders that may be required during the proceedings of the Act. It fixes some drafting errors—they happen—in the 2017 changes, and particularly the cross-referencing with the Children’s Commissioner Act. It ensures that the expansion of our youth justice system—which the member who just resumed her seat, Maureen Pugh, noted—to include most 17-year-olds is implemented efficiently and effectively. It supports the judiciary, the police, and other key agencies to ensure that 17-year-olds are treated consistently through the youth justice system by the variety of agencies that they might come in contact with. So it’s not a big policy shift. This is primarily a technical bill, but it is reflective of some very significant changes that have been made in the past.

I want to commend the leadership, the vision, the passion, and the sheer hard work of the Minister responsible for Oranga Tamariki, the Hon Tracey Martin. It isn’t an easy space to lead work in—I can attest to that myself—but I think she’s doing a magnificent job and it’s great that we’re going to get near the end of this parliamentary week on such a note of unanimity around such an important issue.

Tēnā koe. It is my pleasure to stand and support the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill in the third reading. The contributions that I have been privileged to hear today have been very thoughtful. The purpose of the reason that we are here today, as members have said, is around tightening up some technical errors within this bill. I too want to aid my congratulations to Tracey Martin for shepherding this part of the bill through the House, and to all of the members of Parliament for supporting the bill because it is always a great day when all the members of Parliament can see the value in supporting a bill, especially one as important as this particular one.

I just want to focus my contribution on the areas around the bill that talk about the capability and capacity issues, and ensuring that they are being met within community providers to keep our rangatahi safe—to actually help them through to be able to contribute to our society fully and also to help them to address their offending and to either stop their offending or to reduce any forms of reoffending. I understand that in order to do that, community providers do need to be supported fully. It is a tough world out there for them. It is tough because the issues that rangatahi face—as adults we might think we know where they’re at, but in many cases they move around a bit. You need to have diverse workers in behind the scenes who can actually address the needs of these rangatahi. I just want to say congratulations that there will be some recognition, I guess, of capacity and capability issues within that particular area of this bill.

In closing, I want to acknowledge the former Minister, the Hon Anne Tolley, who took the Child, Youth and Family services restructure by the horns and did an amazing job within Oranga Tamariki. This today is really just, as I said in my opening kōrero, a tightening up of technical changes. So, again, without any further ado, I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.

I’m happy to rise to support the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill at its third reading and acknowledge the hard work of the Minister, Tracey Martin, who has enabled the legislation to go through its full process to its finality, and it is for us to simply now implement it. I acknowledge also all of those who have been involved in it.

The bill gives full effect to policies that were being enacted by the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act 2017. The expansion of the youth justice jurisdiction to include 17-year-olds is the most significant of these policies that the bill provides effect to. The bill will ensure the intent of the expanded youth justice jurisdiction is applied consistently from 1 July 2019. The bill in its final form will give clear guidance on procedure within the youth justice system, including for related charges.

This bill will support the judiciary, the New Zealand Police, and other key stakeholders to treat 17-year-olds consistently through all parts of the youth justice jurisdiction, including, for example, bail laws, sentencing laws, and aspects of criminal procedure. The bill also clarifies the operation of urgent interim orders that may be required in court proceedings under the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989. The processes surrounding urgent interim court orders were developed to serve the best interests of the child and should be maintained. This bill makes sure these processes will continue to operate effectively from 1 July this year. On those grounds, I’m happy to stand with others to commend this bill for support.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to take a call on the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill, which is at its third reading here in the House. I would like to rise with my National Party colleagues in support of this piece of legislation, which continues the great work that the Hon Anne Tolley was doing as the Minister in the previous National Government. I would also like to acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin for the work that she is continuing to do in this area of Oranga Tamariki and the reforms that are being progressed here—in particular, in the Youth Courts.

This is an issue which is very challenging—it’s about how we turn the lives of our young people around—and I would like to commend the provisions in this legislation, which do ensure that our young people have a consistent approach when there is youth offending, and ensure that if a young person does offend, there is a consistent approach as to how the courts and the Youth Court will approach that offending.

I’d like to, in particular, point out the provisions in this legislation which will ensure that if a young person does commit an offence which is of a substantive nature in Schedule 1A, they will face the adult court system, which could be through the High Court or the District Court. But if the offending is of a less serious nature, then the provisions in the Youth Court will prevail, and they will go through a consistent process. I think that’s an important distinction to be made, because I think it’s important that when there is serious offending committed by young people—17-year-olds—they are going through the appropriate court which can deal with those serious offences. I’d like to acknowledge that as a key part to this piece of legislation.

I’d also like to just point out some of the provisions here which deal with suspending family group conferences. When police have sufficient evidence to charge, an intention to charge, a family group conference is required. The Act specifies that family group conferences are required when a young person is arrested and brought before the Youth Court and the young person does not deny the charge. The requirements of family group conferences will not apply in respect of Schedule 1A charges.

There are provisions here which deal with joint charges with another person, and it has provisions which ensure the process where children and young people are dealt with in the Youth Court wherever possible. I think that an important point which is made throughout this is to ensure that, wherever possible, the Youth Court is the court where young people are tried and where they are charged, and where they face all parts of the process through the Youth Court process wherever possible. That is about ensuring that we do everything we can to turn the lives of these young offenders around.

We know that if some of these young people were to go through the adult court, they would be treated differently, and the likelihood of being able to actually turn those lives around would be substantially reduced. The Youth Court is the appropriate place in many of these instances, so that the lives of these young people can be turned around, so that an appropriate course of action can be applied to those young people’s lives, so that they are given a future and an ability to turn their lives around and make a difference, and so that they aren’t facing further court appearances in the future.

The last thing we here in Parliament want is for young people to continue a life of crime. We want young people to be turning their lives around. We want young people to be leading ambitious lives where they are positively contributing to New Zealand society. This piece of legislation is part of that process. I commend it to the House.

Kia ora, Te Mana Whakawā. It’s an absolute privilege to be the last speaker on the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill. Twenty years ago, when I was a youth justice social worker, I don’t think I could’ve expected that I would be standing here talking on the amendments to the bill. But before I do that, I just want to correct some applications from the other side about the genesis of this bill, attributing it to a member on their side.

Actually, if I can just correct the genesis of this bill, it was the Hon Ann Hercus who was the Minister of Social Welfare—a good MP from Lyttelton—in 1986 who commissioned the Ministerial Advisory Committee on a Māori Perspective for the Department of Social Welfare. It was led and chaired by Mr John Rangihau, and they brought the document—they named it Pūao-te-ata-tū – Daybreak, which is the daybreak. They had 13 recommendations. This is actually the genesis of the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families Act, which is now the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act 2017. I just want to air it and moist it that it is the genesis. In the guiding principles, they stated “To attack all forms of cultural racism in New Zealand”. So, actually, that’s the genesis of this. It was the leadership of a Labour Minister in 1986.

Well, we’ll fast-forward it to today. When I was a youth justice social worker in 1999—I know, I can’t believe it; that’s 20 years ago. In 1999, I was at the Youth Court, and what happened was there was a young person who appeared before the court, jointly charged with an adult. They had a lot of charges, and on one of those charges, the young person had pleaded not guilty. Trial by jury was chosen, and it was transferred to the District Court together with the adult person. All the other charges that were laid in the Youth Court remained in the Youth Court. So what that meant was that the young person, along with the adult on the adult offences, went along to the District Court and the matters were dealt with there on a different day, by a different judge. All the victims went that way on a different day with the judge, and all the young person’s support went on a different day. All the other matters relating to the Youth Court remained in the Youth Court, and that was heard by a different judge in the Youth Court with different lawyers.

So what the changes basically mean is that if a young person is charged with an offence under Schedule 1A, if he or she has similar charges that are actually within the realm of the Youth Court, it all goes as one portion to the adult court, where the adult court deals with it.

If the adult court finds that those charges are actually charges that the young person is to be held accountable for in the Youth Court, then once the adult matter is dealt with all, the matters that are within the realm of the Youth Court are then transferred back to the Youth Court. So it underlines the principle in Part 4 of the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act 2017. It aligns with the principles of section 208. Well, it actually takes a young person’s age is a mitigating factor, victims, and submit it as a factor, and also supports of the young person.

It’s an honour for me to contribute in this bill in the House, and it’s also an honour for me to acknowledge those who had leadership on the genesis of the Children, Young Persons, and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Act back in 1988 which led by John Rangihau and the committee. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.

Bill read a third time.