KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill

I move, That the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to make it possible for any foster parent or kin carer who has proof of responsibility to approach a KiwiSaver provider to open an account for a foster child in their care. Currently, the only way for a foster parent or kin carer to open a KiwiSaver account is by application to their approved or allocated social worker, and experience has shown that this is a very low priority for social workers as they are very busy people and have more urgent tasks to address. The CEO of the Ministry of Social Development currently has the power to open a KiwiSaver account for a child who has contested or no legal guardians. However, this current set-up relies on complex processes to take place within a Government framework where the CEO’s priorities are in urgent demand in other areas. Under current KiwiSaver legislation, foster parents are prevented from opening a KiwiSaver account for their foster children as they are not technically the legal guardian. Instead, the CEO of Oranga Tamariki is the only person that can apply to open a KiwiSaver account for a foster child.

The current process has far too much red tape and prevents foster parents from acting in the best interests of foster children. To give every single foster child in New Zealand that chance of success, we need to change this. There are more than 6,000 foster children in State care in New Zealand. This bill will reduce demands on social workers, which will free them up to focus on more important, pressing issues. This bill simply gives every foster child in New Zealand the same rights as any other child to open a KiwiSaver account.

A KiwiSaver account, unlike your bank account, is the only financial instrument that no one except the owner of the account can access. This bill will add to the work of the previous National Government to improve the lives of New Zealand’s most vulnerable children. If anyone opposed to this bill says there is no need for it because there has never been an application, the reason why we’re here tonight proves this point. There have been applications through social workers, but none have ever made it through to the CEO because they are busy people and the social workers can’t get it through.

I introduced this bill to give 6,000 foster children the same choice as any other child to open a KiwiSaver account. I was a little bit disappointed with certain aspects of the report back from officials. This bill in its amended form, as recommended by the officials, only helps about 10 percent, around six or seven hundred, who have already got a guardian. What about the 5,900 foster children who don’t have a guardian and will never be able to open up a KiwiSaver account if this bill is passed in its form recommended by the select committee majority report?

Oranga Tamariki consistently say it creates an unhealthy precedent to have someone other than the legal guardian to have the right to open a KiwiSaver account. Name for me one bad outcome from someone having a KiwiSaver account. If a KiwiSaver account is not a good thing, why do we as a country sign up everyone when they start working and force them to opt out if they don’t want a KiwiSaver account? Oranga Tamariki say only legal guardians should be able to open a KiwiSaver account for their foster children. Oranga Tamariki have never opened a KiwiSaver account for a foster child, despite several requests made by social workers.

As part of this journey, Oranga Tamariki—it’s great that they say they intend to review their current processes. This is a good thing. However, this is apparently part of their general review, and when I asked them in the Social Services and Community Committee for a time frame, they said over the next year or two. The only way to give foster children the same rights as other children to open a KiwiSaver account is to force Oranga Tamariki to give them that right by legislation.

I want to touch on a couple of submissions made throughout the process. Several submitters expressed concern that this provision is too broad. There were concerns that a short-term foster parent may not be best placed to consider what is in the long-term financial interests of the child. Several submitters who were foster children also said they want the same rights as other children in New Zealand. This fact has been conveniently omitted by officials pushing their point of view.

The committee also heard concerns about situations where foster care arrangements are short term and may change over time. One submitter noted that a child’s caregivers may have different views about finances, including KiwiSaver. No one is forcing any foster parent to contribute to a KiwiSaver account. A KiwiSaver account simply protects any money the child has placed into it against any potential abuse by an adult. It may be difficult for KiwiSaver scheme providers to identify who is authorised to enrol a child into KiwiSaver—not if the legislation is clear.

Officials recommended amending the bill to enable only those foster parents who have committed to a long-term care arrangement to enrol a child in KiwiSaver without the consent of a child’s other legal guardians. The National Party will be lodging Supplementary Order Papers at the next reading on this bill, and I just want to touch briefly on the National Party minority view. National members are concerned that the original intent of the legislation will not be achieved and that foster parents with children in their care are not able to enrol them in KiwiSaver. National members accept that there will be several hundred children that will have the opportunity to open a KiwiSaver account. However, this bill does not achieve the original intent and fails to assist the remaining 5,500 foster children.

This bill was always intended to provide a pathway for foster parents to enrol a child in their care in KiwiSaver whose only existing guardian was the CEO of Oranga Tamariki, and the evidence to date was there is no effective pathway to that CEO. Experience with trying to get a social worker to carry out that application to the CEO, which is the current route, has proven fruitless. I have examples of foster parents trying to open up KiwiSaver accounts, which, as I said earlier, is why we’re here today. Megan Barclay, whose child has been in her care for several years—she’s been trying for the last three or four years to become the legal guardian and has still not achieved her purpose, her goal, of giving financial security to her foster children to ensure they have a secure financial future. She has been fighting Oranga Tamariki for over three years, and, to date, no luck. That child will not benefit from the amended bill as suggested by the select committee.

I just want to finish up with thanking the select committee, under the leadership of Gareth Hughes, for working with me on this bill. It hasn’t been easy, but I just really want to thank all members of the House for supporting this and ensuring we give a level playing field for those foster children living in New Zealand.

I’ll just remind the member: I didn’t stop him during the speech, but you shouldn’t be reading your second reading speech. You should be able to do that. You might be new, but you’re not that new.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I begin my contribution to the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill by commending the member Hamish Walker for the intent behind his bill, which is to make life a little bit easier for foster children. It is a well-intentioned bill, and he worked very collegially with members of the Social Services and Community Committee to get to this point. The amendments that were recommended by the select committee do narrow the scope of the bill a little bit, but at the end of the day, this bill will still benefit hundreds of foster children, and I just want to state that up front.

The original bill sought to enable any foster parent or kin carer to open an account with a KiwiSaver provider for any foster child in their care. Now, under the current legislation—and I’m just going to read this bit because it’s quite precise: under the current legislation, section 35 of the KiwiSaver Act states that children under the age of 16 can only be enrolled in KiwiSaver if all of their guardians consent. Children under the age of 16 with a CYPFA, which is the Oranga Tamariki guardian, can be enrolled by the guardian without the need for consent from all the other guardians that this child might have. Now, the Act defines the Oranga Tamariki guardians as the following: it could be the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, it could be an iwi social service, it could be a cultural social service, or the director of a child and family support service. So any other person who is a natural guardian or who might be appointed as the child’s legal guardian under the Oranga Tamariki Act can only enrol a child in KiwiSaver when they have the consent of all the other legal guardians of this child. Foster parents who are not legal guardians are unable to enrol a child in their care into KiwiSaver, and that’s the crux of what Hamish Walker’s bill is trying to change.

Now, the main amendment that came through officials’ advice and has been recommended by the select committee is to enable only those foster parents who have committed to a long-term care arrangement to be able to enrol their foster child into KiwiSaver without the consent of the other legal guardians. So that’s where the scope is a little bit narrowed, but it’s still broad enough to benefit, I think it’s about, 500-600 foster children.

Now, I just want to point to the fact that this bill raised some very valid concerns in the eyes of the select committee members, one of which came through submitters and was the time that it takes for children in care to obtain documents like birth certificates and IRD numbers, which are prerequisites for their KiwiSaver account to be opened with providers. It takes some time, as the member Hamish Walker has pointed out in his contribution as well, and we were gladdened to hear from Oranga Tamariki officials that there are processes in place to actually speed this up and it is an issue that they are looking into as well.

Some of the concerns that were raised by members and also through officials were that allowing all foster parents, even those who have very temporary care arrangements with their foster children, to be able to make what is considered a major financial decision for foster children, including temporary ones, is out of step with current legislation and with current practice, where, often, temporary caregivers can’t even make decisions like being able to cut their foster children’s hair. So this sets a precedent, and that’s one of the points that was raised by officials.

Now, while members on this side of the House laud the benefits of KiwiSaver given that it was a previous Labour Government that introduced KiwiSaver as a scheme in the first place in 2006 to encourage working New Zealanders to set aside a portion of their earnings to fund their long-term income security, we note—and I’d like to note specifically—that the previous National Government watered that scheme down considerably, and this came up in discussions in select committee as well. I’m actually now pleased that the National Party finally recognises the importance of the KiwiSaver scheme that they tried, again, I mention, to weaken by removing the thousand-dollar kickstart payment. Again, this came up in select committee, and the point was made that it would have been easier to get to a point of agreement with regard to this bill if there was actually that incentive still in place. The second was to introduce an employer superannuation contribution tax and decrease the maximum annual member tax credit from $1,042 to about $521.

Now, the third problem—and this was a bit of an issue that I particularly wanted to look into in select committee—with allowing all foster parents, including those who have very temporary care arrangements with their foster children, the ability to enrol their temporary foster children into KiwiSaver is the issue of fees. Now, there are currently about 30 KiwiSaver scheme providers out there, and only one, Simplicity, has said that they will waive fees for foster children. I commend them for that and applaud them for that decision. The problem if foster children enrol through any other KiwiSaver provider, though, is that those fees could accrue, and especially in temporary care arrangements, it means that one foster parent might put in a lump sum of money; many others may not. If fees continue to drain the amount of money that they have in that account and it reaches a balance of zero, by law that account will be shut, which then means that those foster children have to go through the whole palaver all over again of opening another account. It could be detrimental for them because they end up losing that amount of money that’s in there.

So, in conclusion, the recommendation of the select committee was that this bill be passed with the amendments that came through and that are laid out very clearly in the select committee report. Once again, I just want to thank Hamish Walker for engaging so constructively with the select committee and for his ambition to make life a little bit easier for foster children. I also want to thank, as deputy chair of the select committee, members who worked collegially to get to the point that we’ve reached today. I’d like to thank submitters, many of whom shared very personal stories at the select committee as well, and, finally, officials for their work that assisted us to make the decisions that we had to make. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. A real pleasure for me to stand and speak to the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill in its second reading tonight. As we’ve heard, this is a member’s bill in the name of Hamish Walker and today is the second time I have spoken to a bill that’s had its origins in the Southland electorate. The first one today was the Gore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill, so I’m wondering if there is something, indeed, in the water in Southland that generates so much legislation.

Now, this bill came about when Hamish Walker was approached by one of his constituents who has had no end of barriers in applying for a KiwiSaver account for a child in their care. Now, we heard from Hamish Walker in his first reading speech about this particular family, and a real-life example was the grandfather, who wanted to ensure that all his grandchildren, including his foster grandchildren, were taken care of by him into their future, and, as a result, wanted to open for them a KiwiSaver account. This is where they realised that, actually, it wasn’t going to be that simple. The identification documents that are required—the IRD number, and the birth certificate—found to be quite a struggle for them to achieve. So it was this trigger that has brought this piece of legislation to us tonight.

We would’ve thought that, for any of us, to get a birth certificate or an IRD number would be quite a simple process, but, actually, for these foster children it is not. In fact, for the people that have been trying it is impossible. Because the children are in the State care under the guardianship of the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, that chief executive is the caregiver, so therefore is the only person that can apply for those IRD numbers or the birth certificate, and so even to open a bank account is proving difficult for some of these children in care. We do appreciate and respect the burden of work that the social workers and, indeed, the chief executive have. So in terms of priorities, we found that the issuing of a birth certificate, or IRD number, or opening a KiwiSaver account simply did not find its way to the top of the work pile, and so languishes. One family that we heard from during the submission period had tried three times over 2½ years to open a KiwiSaver account, that so far they still have not achieved it.

The significance of the bill that we’re discussing tonight is important, because it will ensure that those children who find themselves in the care of foster parents are receiving the same rights and privileges as other kids. Now this bill will ensure that the kids who need the support the most, those within the Oranga Tamariki system, are getting the future support that they deserve. I thank my colleague Hamish Walker for responding to a real need in a very special portion of our communities—these children who are under the care of Oranga Tamariki. I believe that KiwiSaver is a universal right for Kiwis, that, you know, we are entitled to have our savings secured, that they are not able to be accessed by anyone else, and that we have the security there accumulating for our retirement. We actually did hear one heartbreaking story from one family who told us that the child in their care had part-time jobs, had saved up about a thousand dollars in cash—now, that was a huge amount of money—but, unfortunately, the money was not secure. He had it in cash, he had it hidden, but an unfortunate other family member got their hands on it, and it was stolen.

These kids that came to talk to us and submitted to us told us, as my colleague has mentioned, other heartfelt stories about why they feel that they deserve the right to have a KiwiSaver account opened in their name by foster parents. They want their savings protected, they want it tamper-proof, and they want it there for if they choose at some point to buy their first home, to realise the Kiwi Dream of owning their home, or to have it there accumulating for their retirement. But of course, these kids aren’t getting the same service that other kids are, and there seems to be an assumption within the banking sector and with the KiwiSaver providers that all applicants are going to come from what I might call regular families, where they have access to the documentation that is required to open these accounts. But of course, we know now that they are not.

The 6,400 children in this country that live in foster care families deserve the same support in terms of their KiwiSaver. Now, we did hear from officials during the select committee process that were directly involved in the system, but I believe the ones that had the loudest voice were the young people themselves. We had some come along and speak to us, and, you know, one story that has stayed with me was from a young man who said to us that he simply wants to be treated like every other kid. He wants the same right to have his savings go into this account, and one of the recurring themes that came from these young submitters was the voicelessness that they felt. They felt like when they go into care, they have lost their identity, and that was the words of one of the young submitters from VOYCE. He said, “We lose our identity.” They cannot get the documents to prove who they are, and then they cannot move forward into getting these accounts opened.

We’ve heard from my colleague about the feedback that we had around the whittling away of the KiwiSaver account through fees, but we have also had assurance that there are providers that will waive their fees, and Simplicity has been mentioned—they do waive all of their management fees, at least for the first five years to get the account built up. I am aware that there are other providers who will do that. In fact, I had a similar arrangement with a KiwiSaver provider quite a few years ago when I ran a campaign to get all of the children, pre-schoolers and schoolchildren, enrolled in KiwiSaver when it first happened. We brought millions of dollars into the western district by doing that and we now have hundreds and hundreds of children enrolled in KiwiSaver. Their money is protected, their future is secure, and because they have been in there for quite some time now—must be, maybe, coming up to nine or 10 years—when they get to the point where they want to buy their first home, they will be able to take advantage of the HomeStart programme and withdraw some of those funds.

Now, while it’s true that around 500 children will benefit from the bill that we have in front of us today, there are over 6,000 other children who are going to miss out because of the technicalities that we have. I am sure that we’ll have a further debate on those other issues as Hamish Walker submits his Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) when we come to the committee of the whole House stage, and I do encourage colleagues across the House to think kindly of those SOPs so that we can open the door to all of these other children in care.

The submitters from VOYCE—we had three young submitters from VOYCE. They were very articulate, very confident young people, and they had quite an impact on me, and I’m sure they did on the whole committee. What I’d like to implore from members across the House is to recall the message that they gave us. They simply want to be treated as all other children in this country. They want to know that their savings are going to be safe and secure, and they want to know that when it comes to the time that they can buy their first home, they do have access to the funds that they have saved so diligently for. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Kia ora e Te Mana Whakawā. It’s an absolute privilege to stand here tonight to speak on the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. I want to take this opportunity to thank the member Hamish Walker for his passion and his due diligence in bringing the voice of the young child who is in care, the foster parents that he’s been speaking with, in terms of ensuring that the young person is involved in KiwiSaver.

Before I speak on the bill, I want to acknowledge that this is Youth Week, and to wish all the young people in New Zealand a happy Youth Week. The theme for this year is called “We are more than what you see”—“We are more than what you see”. According to Manaakitia a Tātou Tamariki—or the Office of the Children’s Commissioner—there are 1,124,040 children under 18 in Aotearoa New Zealand. That’s about 23 percent of our population: 71 percent are New Zealand European, Pākehā, or New Zealander; 26 percent are Māori; 15 percent Asian; 14 percent Pacific peoples; and 2 percent Middle Eastern, Latin American, or African.

I’m talking about this because I want to drill down to what the members on the other side speak about these vulnerable children—over 6,000 are vulnerable because they do not have KiwiSaver. The fact is that every child born in New Zealand has a guardian—so all 1,124,040 have a guardian. The only time that person is not a natural guardian is when the court decides who the guardian is. So let’s just say for the young people who are from the age of zero to 17 it is 847,740—what does that mean? That means that, unfortunately, the State has determined—an assessment has determined—that 6,401 children are in need of care and protection, and that’s when the State intervenes. With the changes to this bill, it means that 500 out of those 6,000 children actually have the State as their guardian.

To get a passport in New Zealand, the guardian has to agree to that. To open a bank account, the guardian has to agree to that. To turn off a lifesaving machine in hospital, a guardian needs to do that. If the intention of the bill was to allow every foster parent to open a KiwiSaver account for every child in their care, it’s an erosion of the natural right of a guardian, of a parent. I myself am a guardian of a 13-year-old. If for some reason she ends up being in my sister’s care and they determine that she is a foster child, that means that my sister can open a bank account for my child, which means that anybody who could be a short-term carer for a child, actually, can open that, which is over a million children.

I just want to urge on the point that they talked about, which was that these children want the same rights as every other child in New Zealand. Well, wake up—they do. That’s why the State’s in there—that’s why the State is in there to ensure their rights are upheld. Unfortunately, in my experience as a social worker or as a manager or a senior adviser in Oranga Tamariki, children are moved from home to home because, for some reason, it didn’t work out with that caregiver. Now, that is not saying it’s because they weren’t enrolled into KiwiSaver. It’s because something along the way didn’t work.

I do want to acknowledge you, Madam Deputy Speaker, because you were the Minister when the changes came through, through the white paper, then the green paper, then we made the changes. I was privileged enough to be working and serving these children.

I heard this member from across the other side talk about the presentation from VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, where we had two children who are currently in care speak about their experience. The submission of Jennifer Thonrithi, who has no family in New Zealand, who is a current child in care, who is now at university—what she said in her submission was that caregivers need to listen to young people. She said that caregivers need to listen to young people as well. We had the manager of VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai—I know her very well—Tracie Shipton. She spoke about the things that weren’t working. The things that weren’t working were obtaining birth certificates, obtaining IRD tax numbers. But I was able to share that day that every child who the State pays board payments for is automatically provided with an IRD number, because there is actually a liable parent that needs to pay those contributions. So really it was good and hopeful to hear from the ministry, from Oranga Tamariki, that they are working on those.

Really, we talk about KiwiSaver now as if it’s something that’s just common—KiwiSaver is common like KiwiBank, KiwiSaver. We talk about it, but it was the Labour Government that brought it in in 2006. Unfortunately, when it came in, I didn’t take up the option to enrol my child so that she was eligible to get the $1,000 with it. The original intent of the KiwiSaver was a kickstart for our children, for all our one million children, which then the people across the House, when they got into power—they just deleted it, and changed it, and then started talking about KiwiSaver like it was their idea.

I want to come back to the bill in terms of changes to guardianship in section 110. Guardianship: it’s the sole guardianship by the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki. I think you can count; it’s probably not even 100. But the ministry informed us that this bill will, in fact, allow 500 children and young people in the care of the chief executive to be enrolled into KiwiSaver, and I think that’s a good thing. The remaining children actually already had a guardian who could do that, and sometimes, from my experience in Oranga Tamariki, to have a guardian who no longer has custody of their child fight to have that right to have a say in their child’s life is the only connection the child has to their whakapapa. If we take that away—if we take that away—then what is there left for this child, for the children who are in care, for all 6,400 children?

I want to share, in my final comment, that the reason why I became political was because I firmly believe that the Labour Party—that this side of the House—actually can lead this country better, and I believe that we do support this bill. We support it to the point that, yes, 500 children will benefit—children who are in care—and we’re saying no to any other alternative arrangement that is outside the law.

I want to bring it back to say we can do better. We can do better. We can do better for our children in care, and I want to acknowledge the Minister for Oranga Tamariki in terms of her leadership in taking us into the next phase of what I mentioned before with the white paper, the green paper, and the Vulnerable Children Act that now is Oranga Tamariki. Those are the stages where we’re going. It now needs new leadership, and I commend the Minister in terms of taking us forward in this journey, but I do support this bill and I commend this bill to the House. Malo.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise to speak on behalf of New Zealand First, but everybody will know that I’m the Minister for Children. So, first of all, I want to acknowledge the author of the bill, Hamish Walker, and I want to acknowledge the intent. It’s the intent of many, many, many New Zealanders when we talk about children in care. There is a level of commitment to children in care in this country that we need to harness, and we need to empower those in New Zealand with the same positive intent as the author of this bill to know the appropriate ways by which to harness it and use it for the benefit of these children. But I also want to acknowledge the previous speaker, Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki, and her level of practical reality around the real life not only of these children in care but of their parents.

Their parents do not become instantly invisible when we, the State, have to step in for a short time, a medium-term time, or a long period of time to look after them, to care for them as we try, if at all possible, to bring their family back together again. I heard that representatives from the young people of VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai—care-experienced young people—came to speak to the Social Services and Community Committee. If the select committee has listened to them on a number of occasions, in the times that they have gone public with what they have asked of us as a State and the changes that we are striving to make with Oranga Tamariki, it is that, in the first instance, they want to be with their family as long as they can be safe. They ask us to support their families, to empower their parents to be better parents, to be safe parents, and to be able to be together with their parents and their siblings and their whānau and their whakapapa. Everybody has whakapapa regardless of their ethnic background. Everybody has a genealogy, and that is all that word means—who am I connected to, and how have I been connected through them to this moment in time?

So, while I acknowledge the author of this bill, I have to say it is very unlikely that New Zealand First will support any Supplementary Order Papers that he brings forward in an attempt to bring this bill back to a wider or broader application that disempowers the parents who are still the guardians of these children. Law cannot be made on one family alone. Law cannot be made because one of us has an association with a family that wants an outcome that they have been unable to achieve. That is not good law—that is not good law—and I would caution that member. In this instance, what the member has achieved is a broadening—he has alerted Oranga Tamariki to a process problem inside Oranga Tamariki around those who have guardianship rights or joint-guardianship rights, around the process problem there and the ability of them to open KiwiSaver accounts for children they care about, that they love. But we will not, through this Parliament, disempower these children or disempower their parents. I know that that member is also a parent, as I am, and he should understand that what he is proposing for these children and these parents is that anybody in New Zealand—anybody in New Zealand—can open an account, has legal capacity to open a financial account.

💬 Lawrence Yule: Hamish isn’t a parent.

Apparently the member is not a parent. I take it back. I apologise. I apologise if I have predicted his future.

💬 Simon O’Connor: It’s prophetic.

💬 Simeon Brown: He will be soon!

This is a really serious issue, and I had thought that I would deal with it seriously; so I apologise to the members of the Opposition if I was too serious. I apologise to the Opposition if I actually took this seriously about the futures of these children. I thought that member was serious about the futures of these children, and perhaps he would like to control his colleague in front of him while we discuss something that is incredibly serious.

These are care-experienced children who have already suffered trauma. They have parents that the member is suggesting we disempower further. We cannot support any further disempowerment of parents, but we do support the fact that the member has drawn to attention internal issues that need to be streamlined around Oranga Tamariki for those foster families, those foster parents who have joint guardianship. We acknowledge that the member has drawn to the attention of the Parliament the fact that there are approximately 500 other care-experienced children that may benefit from his bill. I’m deeply saddened that his colleagues around him think that this is something to be laughed at or joshed about or treated with such lightness, because I know that that member is actually attempting to do something for the benefit of children.

So New Zealand First will support this bill in the way it is written and the way the select committee has brought it back to the House. We acknowledge him for the work he has done, but we also acknowledge the children, the voice of care-experienced children and what they have asked us to do for themselves and their families, and we acknowledge those parents who strive every day to improve their lives so that they can continue to be the guardians of their children and can continue and gain back the guardianship and the physical capacity to care for their children again.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is very interesting. I’m not sure if the previous speaker, the Hon Tracey Martin, and I are actually talking about the same bill, because actually we’re not disempowering parents, we’re not disempowering children; the intent of this bill is to give some equity to these children who actually form the most vulnerable in our community.

Guardianship is now in the hands of the CEO of Oranga Tamariki. What we’re asking and what Hamish Walker has wanted to do and the intent—he wants to stick to the integrity of the bill, to the intent of the bill, which is to allow these children to have the same access as all our children, the same access as my children. So I’m delighted to take this call on this bill, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. I’d like to commend my colleague Hamish Walker for putting this bill forward.

Hamish Walker’s advocacy for these children adds to the significant body of work that this National Government did to improve the lives of vulnerable children in this country. And it’s fair to say that the member Hamish Walker has been very strident and forthright throughout the passage of this bill to safeguard the intent of the bill, the integrity to the intent of the bill, which is to support these vulnerable children in our community to have equal access to a KiwiSaver account. That seems pretty straightforward—pretty straightforward—just to want to open a KiwiSaver account, something that many of us just take for granted, and yet it’s actually not been a simple process. It’s not been straightforward at all. If you’re a foster child in this country, in fact, it’s been nigh on impossible. This is why we are here debating this bill in this House.

So under the current KiwiSaver legislation, foster parents are not able to open a KiwiSaver account for their foster children as they are technically not their legal guardian. And it’s really sad, when we talk about foster children and foster parents, because we have to acknowledge that these children have not had a great start in life to end up in this position. So therefore we have to help and support them as much as possible.

At the moment, the CEO of Oranga Tamariki is the only person who can apply to open a KiwiSaver account for these children, and as you can imagine, filling out the paperwork, the forms, for an account for these children is not a high priority for the CEO, and nor should it be. He’s got a big workload on his hands—that’s understandable.

💬 Hon Members: She.

She. Social workers have attempted to assist in this process, on behalf of these families, but to no avail. This has created a necessary bureaucratic process, which many foster parents have found utterly frustrating and disheartening.

A KiwiSaver account is a financial tool, but is actually something that gives hope for their future—again, something that we take for granted. The good news through this process is that not-for-profit provider Simplicity have offered to set up KiwiSaver accounts for every foster child in New Zealand if they want one. They’ve indicated that they will waive all administration, membership, and trustee fees for at least the first five years.

Again, let’s bring our focus back to these foster children, who are in vulnerable positions to be where they are. Mr Hamish Walker’s intent was to give those foster caregivers the ability, the ease, to make an important financial decision for the children they are caring for—not just a financial decision but some security for the future. There are many foster parents who want the option to leave a legacy for that child even if they never achieve legal guardianship. Foster parents want to provide the best possible future for children in their care, because, unfortunately, often these foster children haven’t had the best start. It’s a selfless act to set up something for that child, knowing that they may not become their legal guardian, knowing that there may be some uncertainty or instability in that child’s life.

Foster parents can in some way give them something tangible and positive for their future. It’s an honourable motivation for the foster parents, and this sentiment is highlighted in a submission made by a foster parent Sheryl Blythen. In her submission, she wrote: “A KiwiSaver account provides a way for these children to save funds that cannot be accessed by any family or whanau member who may not have the child’s best interest in mind. It would also be a good way to start a saving habit for young people who may not have had financially responsible behaviour role modelled to them.” I support this bill to the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It’s a great pleasure to rise and speak on this very long-named KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. I would, first of all, as has every member here tonight, acknowledge the member Hamish Walker, who is not a parent, who has very courageously brought this bill and raised the matter with this House. I thank you for that, and I thank you for the intent behind this bill.

I am not a member of the Social Services and Community Committee, and so I have not had the benefit of listening to the submissions and sitting in. However, I have had a look and a read of the submissions, and I’ve looked at the proposed changes and the final report by the select committee. What I can say is that this is a small matter in terms of the number of children that will be affected, but it is actually really important.

I want to acknowledge also—before I talk some more about the bill—those foster parents out there, who are doing an amazing job. I would like to acknowledge them and also, a little somewhat selfishly, acknowledge my own mother, Linda Hahn, who has been a foster parent for a long time. She is what we would probably call a kin carer in that we have a whāngai brother, who has been with us since childbirth, and then, latterly, as he is now a grown man, we have had other children in my mother’s care. I know of the care and the energy and the love that is put into those children on behalf of the State while their parents cannot care or are currently unable to care.

So I do want to acknowledge those foster parents out there, and I also want to very quickly just acknowledge the Homes of Hope in Tauranga. Hilary Price and her team work absolutely to keep groups of siblings together. They do some amazing work, and I want to acknowledge them for the work that they do. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, back to the bill—thank you for allowing that.

This bill in its original form had the purpose of enabling 16- and 17-year-olds, along with a guardian or a carer, to enrol themselves, as one of the aspects, and the second aspect was it was proposed that children under the age of 16 would have the opportunity if one guardian or foster parent chose to enrol them. The Minister has just mentioned about the erosion of the rights of guardianship, so the report that returned was most certainly narrowed and changed the full gambit down to including about 500 children who would be affected by this. This gave the 16- and 17-year-olds who have a guardian appointed the ability themselves, alongside a guardian, to enrol, so that gave those young persons the opportunity to have some control. The second aspect was to enable those children under the age of 16, along with one guardian.

Now, the reality is that the natural guardians—and I’m not sure, but people may understand that when a guardian is a natural guardian, they are the parent at birth. So that’s very often mum and, if dad is present at the birth, also the father. That is an innate right as a guardian, and guardians have very important rights. However, when the State intervenes and appoints additional guardians, there are additional duties. But the original guardians do not lose their rights, and that is the point that Minister Tracey Martin was making.

The parent, most importantly, still retains their right, and therefore it is so very important, because State care is not something that we hope that our children stay in. It is not a destination. State care is something that we hope will be a short term and small part of this child’s life. If it continues in that child’s life, then, obviously, guardianship is appointed.

So the reality is that the shaping of this bill has been to still ensure the rights of the natural guardian alongside those guardians who are appointed, and it is very important that we do that because we recognise absolutely that the family member—the natural guardian—needs to retain their right. Now, KiwiSaver is a great initiative.

Debate interrupted.

The House adjourned at 10 p.m.