Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill

I move, That the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.

This is a short but important bill. It will ensure that Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) will have certainty in its funding arrangements over the next several years. It also gives effect to Cabinet decisions around the levy that museums, archives, and the New Zealand Defence Force should pay. The bill amends the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Act 2017—the FENZ Act. The FENZ Act brought together rural and urban brigades, and paid and volunteer firefighters to form a fit for purpose, 21st century fire service.

The benefits of this organisation can be seen in the responses provided to the recent Tasman fires and the flooding in the West Coast. Responses like these are vital in keeping our communities safe, especially in the face of increasing extreme weather events. FENZ also provided support in response to the Christchurch terror attack on 15 March, 2019. While we are now realising the benefits of FENZ operating as a unified organisation, we need to make sure that the way they are funded is appropriate.

Funding FENZ through a levy on contracts of insurance is a carry-over from FENZ’s predecessors. However, there are weaknesses in this funding system. These include: people being able to freeload by choosing not to insure their property, and, therefore, paying no levy but still benefiting from FENZ’s service; increased insurance costs and reduced incentives for people to properly insure their properties; and levy collection is complex to administer for insurers, and FENZ’s levy income may become uncertain as the commercial insurance market evolves.

We are looking to see if there is a better way to fund such an important organisation. We want to provide a stable, simple funding system that is fair to individuals and businesses. Now is the ideal time to take a fresh look at different options for funding FENZ, as we have good information and understanding of the costs involved with running the new organisation. This bill provides time for us to explore the best way to fund FENZ so that they can continue to do the outstanding work that they do. The bill does this by delaying the commencement of a new levy regime until 2024. An Order in Council can bring this date forward as needed to implement a new funding regime. Importantly, the bill ensures that FENZ will remain funded for the duration of the review of the funding system.

This bill also exempts items being held by cultural heritage bodies from being liable for levy payments. This will ensure that institutions that hold extremely valuable items for the public benefit are not unfairly charged a high rate of levy. Some of these items will be virtually priceless. We want to make sure that institutions preserving and exhibiting such items for our communities are not penalised in the form of high fire levies that don’t relate to their potential call on FENZ’s services. This bill also clarifies that the New Zealand Defence Force is exempt from the levy. This clarifies a long-held position that the New Zealand Defence Force provides New Zealand with significant firefighting capability and benefits to the community. I think the Defence Force’s contribution to fighting the Tasman wildfires illustrates this well.

I would like to thank the Governance and Administration Committee, chaired by Mr Brett Hudson, for their careful consideration of this bill. I would like to thank those who submitted on the bill, and those parties that have supported this bill. I would also like to take a moment to, once again, thank and pay tribute to the women and men of FENZ for their hard work, their commitment, and the incredibly important work that they do. This bill is an important step in the journey towards our ultimate vision of FENZ, so I’m pleased to commend this bill to the House a final time.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It’s my pleasure to stand in the third reading of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill and in support of it. I would like to acknowledge the Minister Tracey Martin for her offer yesterday to collaborate to work on this bill, and I accept that, and I assure her that we will be working positively to ensure that Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) is properly funded.

This is a real opportunity for us to fix this problem, as the Minister has just mentioned in her speech that we know how much money is required. Yesterday, during the committee stage, a few times I asked the Minister about the surpluses right now that the FENZ levy is creating—where that money is being spent—but, unfortunately, I could not get the answer. But definitely, that is one thing which I would like the Minister to consider. Right now, the income of FENZ is more than the expenditure they are doing, and—because this bill extends the process until 2024, and every year there is surplus available—where is that money going? It will be a better option that the people who are paying the levy should get the discount, because there are excess funds available in FENZ, and that is one thing which I would like to request the Minister consider in the days to come.

The second point which I would like to say is that while considering different options on how to fund FENZ, as I know that there is an option for general taxation, the funding can be taken from there, or properties—the local government can collect the funding from rates—and other options are also available. So I request the Minister to consider that in our neighbouring country, in Australia, there are different states which have got different provisions as to how they are funding their fire services. The one which is very close to my heart—I have gone through Queensland’s provision, where they have got a system. They have got five different areas, categories, where they are funding according to use. If there is a fire station which has got around-the-clock services available and paid firemen and women are available, they are charged more. In a rural area where there is a voluntary service, that area is a levied at a lower rate.

That means that the requirement determines how much levy the people should pay, and that will be a fair way to go. For example, in New Zealand, we see that in some of the rural parts where there are more paid workers, they are paying very high levels of levy in comparison with what volunteers are, to the extent of about $127 to $21—something like that. So I would like to request the Minister to consider these things, and, obviously, as she has offered. I am happy to collaborate and discuss this in detail when the time comes.

Before I conclude, I would also like to acknowledge that the women and men, the volunteers and the paid workers of FENZ, do a fantastic job. We know that the number of call-outs for the fire services is reducing, and call-outs for other purposes, like floods, car accidents, other accidents, are growing. These people are really the front-line people who come and rescue the people from time to time. So I would like to thank the whole Fire and Emergency New Zealand team for the excellent job they do, and I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Look, I’m just going to take a short call on this bill to say that it is a short bill, as the Minister of Internal Affairs alluded to, but it’s a pragmatic solution to a situation that Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) found themselves in where we needed to actually do things well.

So there are two options that FENZ had. When the creation of Fire and Emergency New Zealand happened in 2017, they set a two-year time limit to get the new levy regime in place. But setting new regimes is difficult, it’s timely, and it involves a lot of complexity, not only for FENZ themselves but also for those who have to implement this levy, and they found that, in fact, there just wasn’t enough time to do it.

As mentioned, it’s a pragmatic bill that says, “OK, let’s push this out to 2021. Let’s get this right.” We could have rushed it through, and what ends up when you rush these sorts of things through is no one wins. You get a levy system which doesn’t work well, you get a whole lot of systems that have errors in them, and you get a general population that is more than grumpy. It just doesn’t work. So what we did was we said, “Hey, let’s push this out to 2021.” It could be brought back to 2020 by Order in Council, but it’s just about fixing the problem.

I congratulate the Minister on her pragmatic approach—

💬 Hon Tracey Martin: 2024.

—sorry, 2024—and I also congratulate the Minister on her willingness to engage in a really proactive way with those who are responsible for ensuring that this happens. And, with that, I’m going to sit down.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It’s a pleasure to rise in support of this Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill. Now, I actually had the privilege of sitting on the select committee that scrutinised the original Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) bill, the Act that has created this new consolidated and combined organisation. I just want to acknowledge that through that committee process, we actually heard from members of the insurance industry and the Insurance Council of New Zealand. Their belief was that the bill wasn’t going to give sufficient time for the new levy to be constructed and put in place. They held that it was far more complicated than the Government and the officials thought it might be, and the fact that this amendment bill was brought to the House actually illustrates that they were correct. So they were right all along, and it was appropriate that the Minister introduced this amendment bill to give more time so that that levy could have been properly worked through and set. We certainly had no problem at all supporting that.

I also acknowledge—because now, of course, we’ve incorporated the Minister’s Supplementary Order Paper 205 into this bill in the committee of the whole House stage—that it is the Government’s right to seek to review the funding arrangements for FENZ. I would note that, in essence, that is what the previous Government had already done, but we certainly are not going to seek to stand in the way or oppose the Government undertaking that review, and this amendment bill, should it pass in a few minutes’ time, will certainly permit that.

But I would caution that because it potentially takes a new levy date out to 2024, that is actually a period of uncertainty for FENZ, for insurers, and for the public. No one is going to be quite sure into the future what the funding arrangement might be, how it might be met, and what risks it might introduce. They are, fundamentally, a choice between imperfect options. We had the levy model that was proposed and passed in the FENZ Act and that was going to be extended when this bill was first introduced on a levy on property insurance. Other options include general taxation, and, put very simply, if we’re going to use general taxation, the two options there are you either raise taxes to generate that extra revenue for funding or you take spending away from somewhere else. One can’t do that any other way. Either taxes go up to get the extra revenue or other things are not done so that the revenue can be reprioritised elsewhere.

I recall, because I looked through, as this bill was first introduced, New Zealand First members’ contributions on the first reading of the original FENZ bill. They noted in that—and I have pointed this out to some members of the insurance industry—that they had a strong preference for a compulsory motor vehicle third-party insurance and a levy to be raised on that compulsory insurance to help to part fund FENZ. I would say, taking this opportunity, to the insurance industry: be careful what you wish for; you might not like what you get. I can say, having spoken to these members of this industry, that they certainly do not support the idea of compulsory insurance, in any form.

None the less, we do support the Government’s right to undertake a review. They wish to undertake a thorough review. We are going to support them to do that. I note Mr Bakshi, my colleague, has said that the Minister has extended an invitation to include him, as our spokesperson, in that discussion. I think that’s an exceptionally gracious and generous thing of the Minister to offer, and I’m sure Mr Bakshi and our caucus would love to take them up on that. We will support this bill at third reading.

I just want to raise four points. The first one is that I want to acknowledge the leadership of the Minister of Internal Affairs in leading this work—fantastic leadership, which is so devoid from that other side.

The second thing is that this is an issue that is left to us again by the previous lot. They were supposed to have fixed this in 2018, and it got pushed back to 2019 because they did not anticipate the transition and the work and effort that was required to put a new system together—to bring together the 40 different bodies into one unified body. They didn’t anticipate the cost and the effort. So we now have a Minister that is grabbing the bull by both hands and is working and driving this forward.

The third point—[Interruption] Hush. The third point is that I want to acknowledge the Minister, because since she’s taken over the reins of this particular portfolio, I’m now seeing more Māori and Pacific young people volunteers participating in this workforce. One in particular was in Māngere, a young man there who they brought in. That is so important, to have a diversified workforce, and we as a country need to recognise the strength of that.

And the fourth and final point—

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): I hope that this relates to the bill itself.

I was just talking to—

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): OK, thank you. I’d really appreciate that, if you could.

All right, thank you very much. That’s really what I wanted to say. It’s not a long bill; there are only two amendments there. But after talking to Mr David Bennett, I now officially, formally withdraw my support for the Leader of the Opposition.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Right, OK—awesome speech from that member who just resumed his seat, Aupito William Sio. National, of course, support this bill in its third reading, the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill, and congratulate the Minister for her collegial approach to what has been a pretty long-running piece of work across several Governments. It is to Ms Martin’s credit that she continues to be willing to work collegially, because this is not a political issue, despite what you might’ve thought from the last speaker. This isn’t a political issue. Fire and Emergency New Zealand is an organisation which traverses all of New Zealand.

In fact, this Saturday, I’m looking forward to going to Cromwell to watch the Cromwell fire brigade do their thing. I saw them a couple of Sundays ago, also in Cromwell, at a community event, which tells you a lot about the Cromwell fire brigade, along with all the other fire brigades in New Zealand, that the volunteers are always prepared to get out and support community events. So this Saturday—I think it’s 10 o’clock in the morning—I’ll be in Cromwell applauding them, and that is what we get across New Zealand. Every time a member gets up in this House to speak about Fire and Emergency New Zealand, they consistently thank and say the same thing about Fire and Emergency New Zealand.

The only point I want to make, because we are in the third reading and we are supporting this bill, is that in pushing out the levy calculation to 2024, it does give rise to a period of uncertainty. Maybe that uncertainty doesn’t get to the community fire brigades, but it certainly gives rise to a bit of concern, perhaps, amongst other parliamentarians and those who watch policy being developed about just how that levy will be raised. As the local government spokesperson, I will be very interested to see whether the Minister follows on from the indication she gave at the committee stage that a levy on ratepayers could be considered. I would urge the Minister to be cautious and collegial over that point, but having said that, congratulations to the Minister, and National supports this bill at third reading.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I don’t have very much to say on the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill. The Green Party is supporting it; a lot of what has needed to be said has been said in previous readings. It does extend the time that the levy system regime goes—it extends the date at which the levy becomes instrumental, and that is in order to allow the insurers and others to take proper account and amend their system. So, once more, we are seeing a very sensible bill being proposed by the Minister, who is fully on top of her portfolio, who wants to ensure that the basic changes that this bill makes are to enable Fire and Emergency New Zealand to be properly funded, and for there to be some certainty over what will happen in the next few years while a review of the way in which Fire and Emergency New Zealand is funded for the longer term occurs, because we want that system and its funding model to be stable, to be universal, to be equitable, to be practical, and to be predictable. Under this Minister, I am very confident that that will happen.

So this small bill, which has got wide support across the House, is a sensible and practical measure, and the change in that deadline is critical because otherwise it does create a lot of uncertainty for everybody about what the levy rate will be and what the obligations will be. So this is a small bill, it’s a significant one, and it’s in very good hands under the Minister, the Hon Tracey Martin. Thank you.

I speak very briefly on this particular bill. The bill’s amendments all relate to the levy-based system to fund Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ). We all know that FENZ was formed on 1 July 2017. It was under the National Government that we proposed this and then we enacted this. The main reason was that we would like to have a modernised emergency system to better meet the needs of New Zealanders. As we can see in the recent Nelson-Tasman fire, FENZ reacted very efficiently and did a very, very good job. This is a modernised organisation, and for that reason we need to have a modernised levy system. This particular bill will extend the levy until 1 July 2024, basically to make sure that we have enough time for all the parties to sort out the particular problems in terms of following up with the modernised levy.

Now, this particular bill—as I said, National had a particular goal at that time that was to provide a better service to all New Zealanders. This was part of the broad National policy that was to provide Better Public Services. For that reason, I will support this particular bill.

This is a split call—five minutes. I call Paul Eagle.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker—

💬 Jamie Strange: This’ll be great.

Thank you, colleague. Look, can I just acknowledge the Minister here, the Hon Tracey Martin. Thank you for championing this and leading it through the various stages in what we’ve already heard is a really sensible, pragmatic piece of work, and the extension there to 1 July 2024 gives us that time to sort things out. Great work from the Governance and Administration Committee—I happen to be on that, of course, but a kūmara does not talk of its own sweetness, as we know.

I certainly also want to just say that in terms of this side of the House, we have a wee plan, and part of that is to make New Zealanders proud. One of those actions—and a member on that side has talked about the International Firefighters’ Day. That’s on Saturday. I’m popping out to the two in my electorate tomorrow.

The material that came with it talked about just some at-a-glance figures, and one of the figures that really stood out for me—and I’m sure it comes as no surprise—is that it’s the number one trusted public service agency in the country. I know that they do a great job. Bills like this will help. I commend this to the House.

Lawrence Yule—five minutes.

This is the second time I’ve spoken on this bill, and we do support it. I acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin for the way in which she listened to what I said at the committee of the whole House stage, because I have been involved in this process over a number of years to get to this point where we have a unified fire service in New Zealand. In my previous role in local government, it wasn’t necessarily the easiest thing to do, but I do want to acknowledge all those that were involved in making that happen. The Hon Ron Mark and Paul Eagle will understand that that was quite an interesting concept at the start. But we’re here now, and I think it’s for the right reasons, and I think, based in my own electorate, I don’t hear any major dramas. I think it’s working really well, and I agree with what Paul Eagle has just said—that the fire service is one of the most trusted organisations in New Zealand.

The Supplementary Order Paper that we talked about yesterday—I reaffirm and I support the fact that more time is being given, but we should not kid ourselves; that won’t necessarily be an easy conversation. There’ll be vested interest groups, whether they’re in the insurance industry, whether they’re in local government, or whether there are actually other interested groups that will have to be seriously consulted and worked through. I reiterate previous comments I made also to the Minister particularly, to have a serious look at the defence model that’s being proposed, for no other reason than to satisfy ourselves that that is the correct thing to do.

So it’s come to the third reading. This side of the House is supporting it. Personally, I think this is the right thing to do. We’ll have to work through the next stages. I commend it to the House. Thank you.

Like all previous speakers, I am commending this bill to the House. We all in our communities have a local fire station, whether it be volunteers, whether it be semi-professional or full professionals, and I think it behoves the public to know just what is going on in those stations, because this is a restructure, and everyone who’s been through a restructure knows what an effect that can have. The restructure in this case is simply around the funding and bringing together the urban fire authorities with the rural fire authorities. I just want to compliment—certainly in my Ōhāriu electorate, where I have three fire services, in Johnsonville, Newlands, and Tawa, all of whom are affected in some way by this—the professionalism of those groups in absorbing these changes. They give not only the great work that they do when they are called out—in the case of the volunteers, giving up their own time—but also understanding what this actually means. Of course, it’s around the funding.

One of the important parts of this too—a central part of this—is that there were three places that were left out: museums, art galleries, and defence establishments, which were actually to be exempted from the levy. Of course, under the original dates, that would only have occurred in 2019. Now it’s necessary for this amendment to extend that time out as well, and that’s a very sensible decision also—again, where the value of those buildings compared to the value of what is inside them means that, of course, the levies they are likely to be liable for are way out of kilter with what they can afford or the incomes they generate. So there’s a lot that’s sensible about this bill, but also the most sensible thing is ensuring that we have the necessary funding regime in place, hence the extension.

So, like those who have come before me, I say this is a very pragmatic piece of legislation which takes cognisance of the necessary changes to ensure that this absolutely essential part of all our lives—if we’re going to make these changes, we’ve got to make sure we get them right. It’s just too vital for us to ignore, so I take great pleasure in commending this to the House.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a short call on the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill at its third reading. I’d like to start, as other speakers have, by acknowledging the excellent work that the fire and emergency service do in our local communities. In particular, I’d like to acknowledge the hard-working staff at the Howick fire brigade and the volunteers who operate there. I’m looking forward to joining with them on Saturday for International Firefighters’ Day, and I really appreciate the opportunity to go along and thank them personally for all the work that they do in the community.

As a number of speakers on this side have said, National will be supporting this bill to third reading, but that does not discount from the complex conversation which will be required around how a new funding model review will take place. I do look forward to being part of that process and understanding how that does take place. Whatever way we decide to fund our fire and emergency services will be complex, will have its challenges. There will be people who have a very strong view in whatever way that is done. What we do know, and what we do agree on, is that they do need to be funded, and they need to be funded well. So I’ll be keeping a very close eye on how that does progress. I’m sure the Minister Tracey Martin will be taking a very pragmatic approach to this very complicated issue and making sure that all parties are well consulted as we go through that process. So I commend this bill to the House for its third reading and its passage into law. Thank you.

It’s an honour to be the final speaker on this bill this evening. I’d like to acknowledge the Minister Tracey Martin for the excellent work that she’s done in this area. We have heard from a number of speakers around the important work that Fire and Emergency New Zealand do, and I’d just like to highlight some of the statistics. We have 1,700 career firefighters within Fire and Emergency, and 11,600 volunteers. That’s a significant number—11,600. My family and I live across the road from a fire station in Hamilton—Chartwell fire station—and we are—

💬 Hon Member: Oh, that’s handy.

Yeah, we often see the work that the people do over there, and we certainly really appreciate it. One of my family members I’d just like to acknowledge: Garth Strange, who’s commonly called “Gorse” because of his beard, has been a volunteer firefighter for decades. I don’t want to guess, but it must be near-on 40 years, and he’s just an example of one of the many volunteers who devote time in this area.

I’d just like to touch on one point in my brief contribution, and that’s the aspect that public museums, public art galleries, and whare taonga will be exempt from the levy, and that’s a way of supporting the arts industry here in New Zealand. Public museums and galleries usually operate on restricted budgets, and this bill acknowledges that and shows that support.

This bill fits into Labour’s commitment to ensuring a strong cultural and creative sector. We believe that this sector is vital to our national identity and economic development, and deserves support and certainty from Government to maintain its sustainability.

So, in closing, I’d like to acknowledge the pragmatism and organisation of the Minister of Internal Affairs, Tracey Martin. I commend this bill to the House.

Bill read a third time.