Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill

I move, That the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 1 April 2019.

This is not a very large bill, to be perfectly frank, but it does a couple of things that are very, very important. So if you don’t mind, I will every now and then just check my notes to make sure that I don’t say that it does something that it doesn’t do, or forget to say something that it actually does do, just for clarity.

For more than 150 years, the fire service organisations have played a critical role in the safety and protection of our New Zealand communities, but the role of the organisations has changed and it has grown. Fire services have become our first defence to the effects of climate change—responding to flooding, land slips, and bigger and more intensive wildfires. They increasingly attend non-fire emergencies, such as motor vehicle accidents, medical incidents, hazardous substance emergencies, and natural disasters. A modern fire and emergency service is also central to the resilience of our communities, not only leading the response in times of emergency but through community recovery as well.

Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) came into existence on 1 July 2017 to better meet New Zealand’s changing emergency needs. To create a unified organisation has been no mean feat. Forty organisations have come together, bringing with them a total workforce of 14,000 people. Of these people, 11,000 are volunteers who give their time for free to serve their local communities. Despite the challenges of unification—it is a large job—Fire and Emergency New Zealand has continued to seamlessly deliver services in communities around New Zealand. They have attended 82,567 incidents in their first year.

The main purpose of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill is to amend the commencement date for the new levy regime that funds those activities. It is essential that this change be made prior to 1 July 2019, as this is when the new regime would have come into force. I therefore recommend that the time-critical amendments in this bill progress through the House as quickly as possible.

FENZ is funded by a levy on property insurance. This is implemented by insurance companies and insurance brokers. At the moment, the levy regime that existed before the fire services were unified last year is still in place, with a transitional levy rate to fund FENZ’s initial few years and some of the costs of the reforms. Under the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Act, a new levy system is set to take place on 1 July 2019, as I previously mentioned. It also makes some changes to the way that the levy is calculated, and this is part of the concern and the reason why we need also to take a delay, as the current levy system does not reflect the scope of services that Fire and Emergency New Zealand carries out.

To implement the new levy regime, insurance companies and insurance brokers will need time to change their systems and their business processes. Since the passage of the FENZ Act, officials at the Department of Internal Affairs have worked closely with insurance companies and insurance brokers on planning for the implementation of the new levy. This work has revealed that a number of changes to the new levy regime will be required for it to work properly. The time needed to complete this work and to ensure that the new levy regime operates properly means that the current date of 1 July 2019 is not achievable for the commencement of the new levy. It has also highlighted some serious concerns about the unintended consequences of the levy calculation.

If I can just mention, for example, a very large national property portfolio insured at, say, $4.5 billion against fire and $25 billion against material damage will have their levy rise from $4.7 million per year to $18.5 million per year under the current levy calculation. A large national portfolio of older building stock insured with the indemnity value of $1 billion and replacement value of $3.8 billion would see their current levy rise from $1 million to $2.81 million. This is a problem, and this is the problem that I inherited when I came and sat in this seat, and this is the problem—why I brought this bill to the House now.

The levy calculation was always going to be complicated. This is not a comment or a criticism of anybody in particular; this is merely an explanation about why we need the time. To dramatise that, this would be the increase for large property owners in New Zealand, and these would be our supermarkets, many of our churches, and so on and so forth. This is too large an increase for any major business or our churches and so on to be able to manage in the time frame that we have been given. We need more time.

The Department of Internal Affairs and Fire and Emergency New Zealand need more time to work with these businesses and these organisations to make sure that we get what is a fair levy across all of the people of New Zealand who will need Fire and Emergency New Zealand services, because that is what this is supposed to be about. This is about making sure that Fire and Emergency New Zealand has the amount of money it needs to provide what is the expectation of New Zealanders for the service that they will provide. So the extra time will also provide more information about what FENZ’s costs are before setting the levy rate to fund it.

The Government therefore intends to move the commencement date back by one year, to 1 July 2020. The bill achieves this by setting a backstop for transition to the new levy regime at 1 July 2021. The backstop date of 1 July 2021 will ensure that if it later becomes apparent that the commencement of the new levy regime by 2020 is not achievable, we can change that date by Order in Council. This will save the need to come back to the House.

The bill will also make a number of other changes. It will exempt the collections of public museums, public art galleries, and whare taonga from the levy from 1 July 2019. Cabinet approved this exemption in 2017, which was intended to be made through levy regulations in July 2017. As these levy regulations are tied to the commencement of the new levy, without an amendment delaying that regime by a year it would also mean delaying this exemption for those collections. We are therefore bringing the exemption forward, as we could see no reason to continue charging the levy on collections insurance.

The bill also makes amendments to clarify that the FENZ levy rate may be set for a period other than three years, and that the surpluses or deficits of levy income in a previous levy period must be taken into account when setting the levy. I would like to emphasise it is essential that this bill pass prior to 1 July 2019. If that date is not achieved, there is a material risk to FENZ revenue that FENZ revenue will be disrupted. This was a date that was set in by the prior Parliament, and, again, it is not a criticism of anybody at that time; this is merely a recognition that the work that needed to be done was more complicated than recognised by the Parliament at that time.

FENZ needs revenue certainty so that it can continue to deliver its fire and emergency functions uninterrupted. This is important for the safety of our communities across New Zealand. Providing certainty about the rest of the levy regime will require some legislative amendments. The Government is currently working through the drafting of these amendments and intends to introduce a second FENZ Act amendment bill in the new year. The amendments in that bill will be technical and will finalise the detail of the new levy regime. We have to get these right.

I move that the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 1 April 2019. I commend the bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. National is pleased to support this bill through to select committee. I do have a question already.

💬 Hon Nathan Guy: Oh, that’ll be a goody.

Yeah, well. The Minister very well set out the provisions in the bill and the necessity to extend the date out by three or maybe two years. The question I have—and it’s something we will explore in the select committee process and when we come to the committee of the whole House—is: has the Government thought about the impacts on the insurance contract law reform work that is being undertaken by the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs at the moment? I don’t know, but that was a piece of work which was generated under our Government and should be bringing some improvements into insurance contract law in New Zealand, and I do wonder whether that has been taken into account by officials. So that is something that absolutely the National Party will be looking out for when we open for submissions on this bill at the select committee. But we do support it.

The commencement date, 1 July 2019, is—what?—seven months away now. The Government have had a year—yes, the Government had a year—and here we are some months out from the commencement date and suddenly they realise that that date is not achievable. And that’s fine. We support the bill and we support pushing out the date of commencement, because Fire and Emergency New Zealand has our support. From every little corner of New Zealand, Fire and Emergency New Zealand turn out on weekends, and at midnight, and in the middle of family celebrations and weddings and funerals; they turn out for us and so we, of course, will support them in the passage of this bill, which really pushes out—it’s not a big bill—the commencement date by three or two years.

So, there’s not much to say because I think, apart from the matter I raised initially around “does this work interface well enough with insurance law reform work”—and I think that is a critical question and consideration and I do look forward to contributions from the Government side of the House. That aside—and we will look carefully at that—we do support this. Of course we support Fire and Emergency New Zealand and doing all we can—after all, it was this Opposition’s legislation initially—to bring this bill through with amendment, if need be, but we do look forward to supporting it through to select committee.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Let me first start by saying that I think Minister Martin has actually done a fantastic job of taking a bill that did actually need quite a lot of work and shepherding it through the Cabinet process and bringing it to the House.

The member who just spoke, Jacqui Dean, asked some questions and I have no doubt Minister Martin, in the very, very thorough way she does things, has thought of this because, I can tell you, that she does approach these issues in a very, very thorough way.

Unfortunately, this is one of these bills—as the previous speaker alluded to—that was put forward by the previous Government. We have had to pick it up and we have had to make changes. I think what happened is perhaps there was a level of consultation which wasn’t robust enough to actually get to the bottom of the issue, and that is the fact that this is a fantastic idea, but if you don’t give those who are responsible for implementing the bill enough time to actually get their systems sorted, then we end up back in Parliament with an amendment bill trying to make it right.

But we are here doing this and, as mentioned, Minister Martin’s done a great job. I would, however, like to reiterate Minister Martin’s point where she said that these small volunteer fire brigades are the backbone of our communities. I’ve got an electorate with rural communities and usually, without exception, you go to the smallest ones—Matawai, for example, at the top of my electorate—the fire station there, the volunteer fire brigade, is the backbone of the local community. The fire station is where everyone gathers, they meet, and you have your barbecues, and you find out what’s going on. The men, and the women these days, are out there helping and the thing that most people don’t realise is—they probably do, actually—in fact a lot of the work, the majority of the work, that the fire brigade does is not actually putting out fires in these in small rural communities, it’s actually attending motor accidents and all of the other emergency events that go on, when in fact the volunteer fire brigade is really the only, and certainly the first, responders in any community.

The new levy system will be an improvement on the current system. It includes new, modern provisions such as anti-avoidance mechanisms, and improves audits and information powers for Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ). This is important, not only for transparency for those who pay the levy, but also for FENZ themselves. What we do know is that if there’s a transparent regime and there are processes in place that allow those who pay the levy, or who are interested in what happens with the levy, to find out what goes on, then it makes for the much better running of an organisation. So that’s happening.

There’s one other point I would like to make, and that is that—[Interruption]

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Order! I’m sorry to interrupt the member. Could you get closer together if you want to have a conversation? Thank you.

The bill also exempts public museums, public art galleries, and whare taonga from paying the fire and emergency levy, from July 1, 2019, in keeping with the original plan.

The Minister gave an example; let me give another example if I may, and that is Te Papa. For example, under the proposed structure, their levy was going to go from $3 million to $4.5 million. So a 50 per cent increase, and we just feel that—well one thing in Labour, of course, is that we love a strong cultural and creative sector, to the point that the Prime Minister herself has taken on this portfolio. Labour believes that this sector is vital to our national identity. Helen Clark—the previous Prime Minister, of course—had this portfolio as well. The economic development around museums and galleries deserve support, and certainly from government, to maintain its sustainability, hence the reason why we are exempting museums and galleries and whare taonga from the levy.

This is a good bill. It’s a necessary bill. As mentioned, the Minister’s done a fantastic job of shepherding this through the Cabinet process. Her papers have been fulsome. The rationale is very sound. It is good—it is good—the Opposition is supporting this bill because it’s one of those ones that actually cuts to the heart—

💬 Andrew Bayly: It is our bill.

Well, Mr Bayly is right. The original bill was the previous Government’s bill, but they got it so wrong to the extent we’ve had to bring it back. We’ve had to bring an amendment bill back, unfortunately. Unfortunately, it’s up to this Government and Minister Martin to actually get it right and make sure it’s able to be implemented. That’s what we’re doing. In fact, this is one of these bills—[Interruption]

ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Order! We were doing so well.

It is one of these bills that shouldn’t be in the House, because they should have got it right the first time. But it is up to Minister Martin. She’s doing a fantastic job. We support this, and there we go. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It’s a great opportunity to take a call on the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill—one that we do support. We’ve just heard an interesting contribution from Stuart Nash. I won’t bother debating a whole lot of things that he said, because some of it made sense, but I must say some of it didn’t.

This bill is an important one. When I think back to when I was the Minister of Internal Affairs, from 2009 to 2011, it was a great, responsible job to be the Minister of Internal Affairs because it was such a wide ministry. In fact, at the time, we brought in Archives New Zealand and the National Library, so we made it even bigger. But, importantly, the engagement that I had with the New Zealand Fire Service at the time was very important, and the thing that I liked most about dealing with the team at the New Zealand Fire Service was the focus that they had on the volunteers. Yes, paid firefighters are important, but so are the thousands of volunteers up and down the country. I have numerous small fire stations in my Ōtaki electorate. In fact, on Saturday night, I will be at a celebration for the Paraparaumu Fire Station, where they have a fire service gold star.

But what officials used to tell me when they came into my office was that the Act was out of date and needed modernising, because when they turned up to motor vehicle accidents—and a lot of the 111 callouts that they have are, unfortunately, to motor vehicle accidents—they wanted to know if they were mandated to do that ahead of the ambulance, because on some of occasions, particularly in rural communities, they would get there a lot quicker than ambulances. Then we think about the USAR—the urban search and rescue. They are a great organisation, and they really stepped up for the Christchurch earthquakes. Were they mandated to do the role that they played? In fact, when we put the call out internationally, we had numerous numbers of USAR teams that came to Christchurch from around the world, and then what happened was we had requests at various events—tsunamis, earthquakes—around the world for our New Zealand USAR team to travel and be deployed into these various countries. Were they mandated to do that? Well, as it turned out, they weren’t. So modernising the Act was very important.

I want to acknowledge Paul Swain, who did a huge amount of work at that period of time to do the review. Actually, interestingly enough, he is now the chair of the New Zealand Fire and Emergency—what are they called now? New—

💬 Hon Tracey Martin: Fire and Emergency service.

Fire and Emergency New Zealand—and I thank the Minister for that. Paul Swain, I think it’s fair to say, has a huge amount of support right across the House for the work that he did in terms of the Swain review, as it’s commonly known now, and, indeed, what he’s doing in his leadership of this relatively new organisation. The other person I want to acknowledge is Peter Dunne, who chaperoned through the new Act in 2017.

Focusing now on this amendment bill this evening, there’s really a couple of aspects to it. It’s clear that Minister Dunne might have been a bit ambitious on his time frame for setting the levy, so it’s only fair that that gets pushed out a little bit to give the insurers and the brokers time to upgrade and, potentially, resize their hardware and software, which they need to do to have a mechanism to collect the levy. The other one is the importance of allowing some exemptions for public museums and the like—we support that.

Also, it’s interesting—Minister Martin will have some work ahead of her in terms of setting the levy. She’ll need to be considering the number of motor vehicles and the number of properties that are insured, and we know that, actually, those numbers—well, motor vehicle numbers are going to continue to grow in New Zealand. Insured properties—a lot of properties are insured because they have mortgages. But, as they get through the period of having a mortgage, then they don’t—often, they let their insurance lapse.

The exemptions, as I’ve talked about—and I know from my experience as a Government Minister in the past that setting levies is always a bit of a headache, because if you set it too high, then, effectively, you’re taking too much money off the taxpayer, and if you set it too low, it’s difficult for Fire and Emergency to do their job. So those things will be teased out and debated in the committee stage.

On this side of the House, we support the bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. Actually, I think it was July last year when the bill that created Fire and Emergency New Zealand went through the House.

💬 Hon Member: Is that all?

💬 Hon Tracey Martin: Yep.

Yeah, it feels like a while ago, actually. I remember speaking in one of the stages of that bill, and it was the night of the Christchurch fires, which gave a certain significance to this bill—the importance of our fire service, for one thing, but it also brought into sharp relief the importance of getting it right, the importance of getting our emergency services right, the importance of having our civil defence systems working effectively, and the importance of having good decision-making structures in place and chains of command.

Madam Assistant Speaker, I’m sure that you’re very well aware of all of these issues, coming from Christchurch yourself, but, actually, that night spurred an inquiry, which took place before the election, into those very things. Now, I know it didn’t directly impact on this bill, but the fire service, which—I was just looking at your speech, the Hon Tracey Martin: 40 organisations, a total workforce of 14,000 people, 11,000 of whom are volunteers, which is the most extraordinary thing, you know. Big ups to Fire and Emergency Service New Zealand. But what a massive feat to bring all of that together, so I want to acknowledge Peter Dunne for the work that he did around that, but now Tracey Martin has to take that and make that work, and make the financial side of it work, which is this levy system. So that’s why we’re in the House tonight talking about increasing the transitional arrangements for the levy.

Obviously, that’s important. We’ve got to get it right, just as we have to get our civil defence system right, and behind that sits the decision-making processes. So I am very much in support of this—an improvement on the current system. Thankfully, sense was seen, and the exemptions that a number of speakers have mentioned tonight around the museums and galleries—and I just want to make reference to my own city and an impassioned plea from the director of the Otago Museum, alongside a whole lot of other directors of our museums who appeared before the select committee last year and talked about the impossibility of putting a value on our cultural collections. The financial impact if the levy applied to them, which would’ve been a 300 per cent increase, was completely unsustainable. So thank you for seeing sense across the country on our cultural collections.

I just want to end on the note of giving a shout-out to the volunteers and the fire service in my own city, particularly in Portobello down the Otago Peninsula, where they spend most of their call-outs attending car accidents and emergencies that affect people, whether it’s—you know, other than car accidents, but accidents of some sort; sometimes, it’s fires. Consequently, their training and their responsiveness—and they mostly have day jobs—are extraordinary, and I think that’s fantastic. Also, as far as the other end of my electorate, Middlemarch, and all of those in between—they’re the people that turn up that are incredibly professional, that are flexible and able to attend to any emergency, really. We need them, we need to value them more, and we’ve got to get the system right that sits behind them. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Assistant Speaker. It’s a pleasure to take a short call in this first reading debate on the amendment bill that’s before the House in the name of the Hon Tracey Martin. It’s a small, technical bill, and, as my colleagues on this side of the House have already indicated, National will be supporting this bill through to select committee. In doing so, I think that we will be keen to see what kinds of submissions come through the select committee process. I suspect that they won’t be too numerous, because the bill, as I said, has a fine and detailed aspect to it. It’s not a particularly controversial or, indeed, complicated piece of legislation. It simply amends the time frame for the setting up of the new levy-based system, because it became apparent that more time was needed.

I don’t think that there’s any question of blame about how this was required. This change to Fire and Emergency New Zealand was the first significant change to our fire and emergency service structure since the 1970s, and, before that, much of what was already in place had been there for a good deal longer than the 1970s. So it’s quite a big piece of change for those people involved in Fire and Emergency New Zealand.

I’m very pleased to see that a small change that has been included in this bill relates to an exclusion from the levy liability for public museums, galleries, and those sorts of places where high-value collections are stored and protected for the benefit of citizens, for visitors, and, of course, for the future heritage of the country. It became obvious, I think, when the bill was first introduced and passed, that the prospect of incredibly high insurance premiums on antiquities of immeasurable value would mean that an exclusion was required for organisations like museums and galleries. So I’m pleased to see that that has been included.

I have the pleasure and honour of representing the Coromandel electorate in this Parliament. It’s an electorate that is dominated by a range of beautiful towns and communities across the region. In each of those towns and communities, there is a volunteer fire service, and I am always humbled by the work and the commitment and the effort that is put in by volunteers. Throughout my entire electorate, all the fire services are provided on a voluntary basis, be they traditional volunteer fire brigades or rural brigades. They, of course, are now going through a transition phase of merging into the new entity. That at times can be challenging and is a bit of a journey for all those involved, but I’m pleased to say that so far so good. Yes, there are some challenges to get through, but I’ve been very impressed with the level of goodwill in terms of moving this service forward.

As somebody else mentioned earlier on in the debate, the nature of the service has now changed considerably, and I know that in my electorate these days, regrettably, increasingly the work done by Fire and Emergency New Zealand is actually for road accidents, road crashes, and that sort of thing. So the service needs to change in order to accommodate those changes to the work that is being done, but I just wanted to place on record my grateful appreciation to volunteers not only in the Coromandel electorate but nationwide. They do a sterling job on behalf of their communities and us as New Zealanders. I commend this bill to first reading.

E Te Māngai o Te Whare, tēnā koe. I don’t always agree with Mr Simpson, but I agree with every word he said then, because, similarly, living in an area where the 11,000 volunteers who are part of Fire and Emergency New Zealand are out attending to road crashes, you hear the siren go off in the middle of the night and you think of the volunteers who are leaping out of bed to get down to the fire station, to get the trucks out, to go off to the equivalent of ambulance call-outs, as well. They do an extraordinary job on behalf of all of us throughout New Zealand.

This exercise, which took place as a result of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand legislation in 2017, of merging the urban and rural fire services, of merging fire and emergency, was a massive one. I congratulate all of those involved in terms of developing into a single organisation and bringing all the back-office people together with the service personnel. They are often in very challenging situations that I personally wouldn’t want to be in, where people have been injured in road crashes and the like, and I really express my appreciation for the huge work that they do.

This bill is not changing the way Fire and Emergency New Zealand is funded, but it is ensuring that the levy which has been carried over, the transitional levy provisions, have a longer lead-in time before the new levy is implemented. It changes what’s called the back-stop date to 1 July 2020 so that the new levy system must be implemented by 1 July 2020 or, if it is ready to go, earlier. That can be done by Order in Council.

I note that the principal Act, the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Act 2017, provided for a levy regime which ensured that there was a stable source of funding for Fire and Emergency New Zealand, that the levy system was universal so that costs were shared amongst all of those who benefit, that it was equitable and commensurate with the benefits, that it was predictable, and that it was also sufficiently flexible to adapt to change. So, of course, ensuring that the new levy fits all of the criteria which are in the principal Act, that the Government works with the insurance industry, is a big exercise. The reason for this bill is because the insurance industry—because, of course, the levy is applied to property through insurance contracts and brokers—made it very clear that they needed more time in terms of looking at the way their services work, the way their contracts were designed, and the way their IT systems operated.

As the Minister Martin said, we need to get this right, because Fire and Emergency New Zealand costs around $460 million annually, and the levy needs to be appropriately set. As the Minister also noted, there will be further legislation introduced into the Parliament early next year, which will be more comprehensive in terms of how the levy will actually operate, but this bill is a small and simple one which is simply seeking to clarify the current regime so that you don’t get uncertainty with the carry-over of the transitional provisions. There’s a clear deadline for when the new levy regime is to be introduced, and it is quite critical that it passes the Parliament before 1 July next year, when originally the new levy was planned to come into force.

So it’s a small, perfectly formed bill. As others have said, the Minister is doing a very good job in picking up this very complex amalgamation of the services, fire and emergency, to deal with all sorts of situations—not just fire but flooding, road crashes and the like—and ensuring that they function to the best of the capability of everybody involved and provide services that are very challenging and that a lot of us wouldn’t want to be doing. So, again, I express my gratitude both to the professionals involved in Fire and Emergency New Zealand and to the 11,000 volunteers, and commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It’s a pleasure to be talking on the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill. I’ve got to say that it’s a lovely night, isn’t it, Madam Deputy Speaker? This is one of these rare occasions when this House comes together. It’s a beautiful thing, and I know what the common denominator is—that is, this is a good National Party bill, and everyone’s coming together over it.

I’ve got to just acknowledge all the members of the Government and thank them for supporting our bill. Of course, it’s a pretty simple amendment, this bill, which is about pushing out the levy. I think many people have canvassed what it’s about, because, basically, it’s giving a bit more time for the insurers and the brokers to put in place the right arrangements before they impose the levy. The other aspects are that we’re going to exclude galleries and those types of entities from paying a levy, which, in my view, I think is very good.

I’ve got to say that, like the rest of us before, I just want to acknowledge the fine people, the men and women of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand, but also, more importantly in many ways, their families—their families who have to watch their loved ones go out late at night, early in the morning, or even during work. They down tools—and they might be self-employed—and go out to sometimes some quite horrific occasions. It’s not only the accidents that the previous members spoke about but also the fires, and also just those small things in the community that help. To me, they are the heart of the small communities of New Zealand.

In my electorate of Hunua, I’ve got 15 of these fire brigades. Only just the weekend before last, I was up in a beautiful part of my electorate called Āwhitu at Pollok celebrating the Āwhitu fire brigade annual medal awards. Of course, many of them were receiving them, and I always make a point of going there if I can, to these medal awards, because in my view, they deserve it—much like the police. They do a fabulous job on our behalf.

I can only just commend this bill. I think it’s an excellent bill, and I think it’s just some tiny recognition of the wonderful thing that these men and women do on our behalf in our communities. Thank you very much.

We now have a split call.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Tēnā koe e Te Māngai o Te Whare. It’s a real pleasure to take a call on this first reading of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill. Before I get into this bill and the details of it, I’d like to congratulate my colleague Mark Patterson on his promotion to chief whip. Mark is an absolute top bloke, and I know he’ll do a great job in keeping his team whipped and in check.

💬 Hon Members: Acting.

Acting. This bill amends the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Act 2017, the FENZ Act. All the bill’s amendments are all levy-related to fund FENZ. As we have already heard, rural and urban fire services were unified across the country into a national organisation, Fire and Emergency New Zealand—FENZ—in July 2017. I also would like to acknowledge that fire service organisations have kept our communities across New Zealand safe for more than 150 years.

In fact, many of us MPs would have learnt firsthand during the International Firefighters Day on 4 May this year that, increasingly, these people not only do things like putting out fires and helping rescue people and animals but deal with issues such as road accidents, medical accidents, slips, floods—you name it, they’re doing this. That’s a workforce of 14,000 and, as we’ve heard, 11,000 volunteers dedicating their time and their families’ time to play a critical role in keeping our communities safe.

Minister Nash previously mentioned these organisations as the backbone of our communities, and he mentioned a particular station at the top of his electorate. I too would like to do the same thing. In Leigh, right at the top of Rodney, is the Leigh fire station, with an incredible volunteer group that is keeping our community safe.

So at the time that the urban and rural fire services were unified, there was a transitional levy regime established, and the planning was—as we’ve heard—that this new levy would take place from 1 July 2019, but, obviously, this particular date is not achievable. So what this bill does, again, is it amends the commencement date for this new levy-based system. As we have already heard from Minister Martin, that is because insurers and brokers will need more time to make considerable changes to their particular systems, but we also want to have more information to understand what FENZ’s costs are before we are setting any new levy rates to fund it.

So, again, this is a very short bill. Apart from extending the transitional levy rates for FENZ and delaying the commencement date for the new levy regime, the bill also deals with levy exemptions, and they have already been mentioned, so I won’t repeat those. Lastly, the bill also makes some amendments to clarify that levy rates can be for periods shorter than three years.

So, all in all, it’s a very sensible, practical bill. Thank you, Minister Martin, and I commend it to the House.

It’s a privilege to take a call on this bill, and I agree with all the nice things that have been said about the fire service and all those people that give their time voluntarily, and all that sort of stuff, in the name of supporting our communities. It’s a fantastic organisation. However, I have some interesting issues—

💬 Hon Members: “However”?

Well, first of all, we are supporting this bill to the select committee. But, having come from a long period of experience in the insurance industry and, I think, some 15 years on various insurance boards, and being an ex-mayor who’s watched this very difficult topic raised with councils as well, my view on the bill is slightly different, and I think there’s room for some discussion on it in the future, because it is extremely difficult to levy insurance companies when people don’t insure things. I guess the challenge I’ve got with this is that’s going to become more and more prevalent as it gets more and more difficult to get insurance, and I think we’re going to have half of our community, in due course, not insured. We’re seeing that already with earthquake insurance. We’re going to see it more and more frequently with other forms of insurance.

So I think the difficulty in the future is going to be—not in my time, and I’m not going to die in a ditch over this, but I have had significant experience in the insurance industry and I understand the challenges that this bill creates. My view is that it should be applied to rates, but that’s certainly not National Party policy—that’s my personal view.

So I think that there are some challenges in the course of this bill, and it will be very interesting to see where we get to in the course of the select committee discussions on it. It is an important issue for our community. It is an important issue for all—particularly those in rural New Zealand, interestingly, because we are more isolated, more fraught, and have more challenges with some of this stuff.

The other thing I’m concerned about with respect to this bill is the manner in which it’s being applied, and the manner in which the fire and emergency services have been reformed, in my view, is going to lead to significant increases in cost, and I would be a little nervous as to where the costs might get to in the course of this levy situation. So I think there’s a couple of things that I find interesting with it and find quite concerning, and I’m sure it’s an issue that the select committee will need to get its head round in the course of considering the discussion on the bill.

So whilst I absolutely support the fire service—or Fire and Emergency New Zealand, as it’s now known—and all the activities they undertake, I do think there are some challenges in the way we set these levies. I do think there are some challenges in the potential future costs, particularly to those people who are paying the levy—in other words, the people of New Zealand who are insured. So I’ve got a great deal of pleasure in supporting this bill to the next stage, and I look forward to the discussion in the select committee on it.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In October of each year, I conduct a heritage tour around the streets of my community of Three Kings in the electorate of Mt Roskill, walking around sites of certain built and cultural heritage significance. One of the buildings that is a highlight of that tour is the old Mount Roskill fire station, and what is notable about that is that it was one of the earliest and first public buildings in the growing community of Three Kings. It was built in about 1930, and at that time there really weren’t any other public buildings around. What that points to is the fact that fire and emergency services are totally central to the safe operation of our communities. In the case of my community, it was the first building you built, because your community was vulnerable until you had that service.

It’s something that I think about a bit. My family has many roots in the community of Thames, and the Kenney side of my family has about seven or eight generations of voluntary firefighters going back in that community, and that’s something that my family has been immensely proud of. So, along with other members of this House, I’m very pleased to be supporting the bill this evening.

The work that we in this House have gone through over a number of years, and it was primarily led—let’s acknowledge him—by the Hon Peter Dunne, in bringing together the fire and emergency services was a pretty monumental piece of work, actually, but probably a necessary one, and what we’re doing in this bill, really, is ensuring that we get the implementation right. There are a couple of issues which have popped up. The first one is around the setting of levies and the ability of insurers and brokers to adapt to the new regime, and I don’t think there’s any particular reason that I’m aware of that we would look to hold anyone to account for the fact that we’re not able to get those set as quickly as possible. That was envisaged to happen in 2019. This bill looks to extend that out to 2020 or 2021, depending on the circumstances, and it seems that there are just pretty fair reasons for that. It’s simply very difficult to get the systems in place to have levies set appropriately by insurers and brokers.

I’m quite interested in the second major change in the bill, and that is the change to have an exemption in respect of the collections of public museums and public art galleries and whare taonga. I think this is a really important one. It’s interesting to look back to when the original legislation first took effect. I think Te Papa’s insurance levy jumped from something like $3 million per year to $4.5 million per year—it was a 50 percent increase. Of course, if you think about it, the collections of many of these cultural institutions are incredibly valuable, so that has a flow-on effect to how much the levy increase might be, but at the same time as having a stock of incredibly valuable goods, these are institutions that don’t necessarily have a commensurate amount of revenue coming in to support those kinds of increases. So I think the change within this bill—and this is in new clause 25A in schedule 1, to be inserted by clause 8, which, effectively, exempts the collections of museums, public art galleries, and whare taonga—is an important one, just to make sure that while we are getting this regime right, we’re not unfairly penalising cultural institutions that are very, very important.

So I think those two small changes are very sensible. They’re about making sure that this legislation, which has wide support, continues to be supported by being responsive to those needs that have been identified. Because of that, along with my colleagues and, I think, everyone else in the House, I’m very happy to commend the bill to the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Look, I’d like to talk about—in relation to this bill—this levy that pays the bills. Being a former volunteer firefighter myself, only for two years—I can only claim two years—I’d like to acknowledge—

💬 Marja Lubeck: 11?

Oh yeah, OK. A couple of guys over there have done a bit more than me. I’d like to acknowledge the volunteers. I went to an award ceremony for a guy called Luers Crump from Kaikohe and he was getting his 50-year medal for service to the Fire Service. So he’d been supporting the community as a volunteer firefighter for the same amount of time that I’ve been on this earth. Another guy, Richard Penney—25 years—a guy of similar age to me, or maybe a bit younger; I don’t want to offend him. He got his 25-year medal. And then another guy Jack Winwood from my local brigade, whose done 50 years, not continuous. He’s probably done about 60, but it was broken up, so he got his 50-year medal a while back too.

So I’d like to acknowledge those volunteer firemen and the communities that they serve in my little patch up North. They do a great job. They get called out in the middle of the night all the time. I had the pager on me for two years and it drove me nuts, so I acknowledge the work they do. They attend all manner of accidents and structure fires, and that sort of thing. So the levy will be paying for this.

I remember the day I first rolled up to training and I got given all this expensive firefighting gear and breathing apparatus to try on and all the kit. I had no idea what to do. I was a junior in the Ōkaihau Fire Brigade with a whole lot of very experienced people around me, including my neighbour, who’s been the chief there for a few years and does great work. I recall going down to training in Christchurch. It’s invaluable training. It’s lifesaving sort of training. One thing you don’t want to be if you’re a volunteer fireman is scared of heights, and you don’t want to be scared of confined spaces. I tell you what, that’s what I’m scared of—heights and confined spaces.

So we had to climb up the ladder at this training facility in Christchurch. It was two or three storeys up. As you can imagine, I was very scared. They ask you a question at the top to try and clear your head, and I couldn’t answer anything. I couldn’t even speak. I was so scared. But I got over it. I managed it. I fought the battle.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s a really interesting story but it has absolutely nothing to do with the bill.

OK. I’ll finish up with one short story, one tiny story: structure fire—my first structure fire. I went there with all these volunteer firemen and fought a huge structure fire for six hours, until I was exhausted, with all these amazing men and women around me in the middle of the night. The next day, I was called out to investigate the cause of that fire, because I was an investigator, and what had happened was this young fella had gone into a shed at the back of the building and was sniffing petrol, using a lighter as a torch. So that’s what caused the fire. So, anyway, I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Here I was thinking we were going to hear from Matt King about levies. Instead, he shamelessly used this opportunity to tell us about his two years in the fire brigade. So let me tell you about my seven years—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: No.

No. No, I’ll weave it in so it’s relevant to the speech, because that’s what a good MP does. But it is wonderful and I do want to acknowledge Matt King and all the other volunteers that serve our communities, and don’t be so hard on yourself, sir—two years is still two years more than most, and so good on you. But it is wonderful to be able to stand here and say that my service record is bigger than Matt King’s, so that’s marvellous.

But, anyway, our communities rely on volunteer firefighters, and it’s not just to fight fires, as we’ve heard many times tonight. Even in my short tenure of seven years, I noticed a lot more of an increase in the demands on the time on the fire service, be it for a motor vehicle accident or assisting with a medical incident—including, I regret to say, many suicides—and for our communities that rely on the service, it needs to be properly funded, and the system that funds it needs to be up to scratch.

I think of those communities in the Wairarapa electorate, where the Hon Ron Mark and I live—I think we’re the only MPs in here that live in Wairarapa. So stretching all the way up the Central Hawke’s Bay are those very small communities like Norsewood and Pahīatua that revolve around those services, or our rural firefighting services that were brought in amongst the wider Fire and Emergency New Zealand restructure, who up until recently have had to share essential things such as boots and helmets, and who used trucks that are older than many of the MPs in this House. It was not a situation that was sustainable, and it was not a situation that could ensure the safety of our rural communities or our smaller communities that rely on volunteers.

The fact is that that change—you won’t hear me arguing against it, on the whole, but the bill that originally brought it in did not bring in a structure that actually, over the test of time, was fit for purpose. I commend the Hon Tracey Martin for identifying that and bringing forward this bill to the House to make the changes that are necessary.

For 150 years, this country’s been relying on volunteers to look after their communities. Now, obviously, with my background, I’ve been focusing on the volunteers, but it’s not just them. It is those that actually are employed in fire and emergency services, as well—our comrades in the service—who are dedicated and, for pretty relatively low levels of pay, given the risk that they put to their lives, are doing it because of their love of the role and their love of their community. The reason they have so many people signing up to become a firefighter—a permanent firefighter—way more than there are places demonstrates people’s commitment to the role and the opportunity to serve the communities.

It’s not an easy role, and that’s why it’s so important to fund these things properly. These people put their lives at risk, at no notice. Those that work full-time do so on a roster system. Those that volunteer are on call 24 hours, seven days a week, and any situation where those services are not adequately resourced and those resources are not adequately funded, I think, is a shame on this country. We, as a country, should not rely on the goodwill of people and then not adequately resource them.

So I do stand in support of this. I stand in support of the pragmatic approach to fixing the previous legislation and to take the opportunity to send a message to those who serve our communities, be it through paid positions or volunteers. I invite members here, if they haven’t had an experience or who have perhaps an opportunity to go find out more about their local volunteer services, to go and do so. Even here in Wellington, go down to the waterfront when the next firefighter combat challenge is under way. They call it the toughest two minutes in sport. I went down this year to watch Bevin Wolland and my cousin Bryce O’Donnell take part—

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we come to the bill.

—and they were talking to me about this bill, Madam Deputy Speaker.

💬 DEPUTY SPEAKER: I don’t think so.

No—you caught me out there. Look, I may as well take the cue and congratulate the Minister again, and I very proudly commend this bill to the House.

Bill read a first time.

Bill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.

I move, That the Fire and Emergency New Zealand (Levy) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 1 April 2019.

Motion agreed to.