KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill

Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. Thank you very much. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. The author is Hamish Walker. First of all, can we acknowledge Mr Walker and congratulate him on having his member’s bill drawn from the ballot. He’s a relatively new member to the Parliament so it’s pretty good luck. I myself have had two in my time, so congratulations, Mr Walker—only one more to go to meet my record.

New Zealand First will be supporting this bill through first reading and to the select committee. We do so because we do have some concerns, and I have articulated these in one-on-one conversations with Mr Walker. The concerns are actually those that Oranga Tamariki has raised. I know that Mr Walker went into some detail in his opening address around his member’s bill to acknowledge the foster families that are caring for these children, and, absolutely, we take nothing away from them. But, ultimately, this is a piece of legislation that is supposed to be for the benefit of the children in our care—the care of Oranga Tamariki—that are then being placed with foster families.

I note that, again, Mr Walker talked about VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, which is the new and independent advocacy body that has been formed since the development of Oranga Tamariki. I myself have spoken on at least one occasion with the young people’s panel from VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai. Currently, it is within the capacity of Oranga Tamariki to open bank accounts on behalf of the young people in our care, and that is appropriate because of the guardianship that the chief executive has, and Mr Walker acknowledged that quite rightly. There are some difficulties. We do have concerns about people who have no legal status as guardians to open something of what could be this magnitude for these children. So, therefore, it will be how the law interacts with what is I think a fairly realistic desire of Mr Walker to provide some support for these young people, and we applaud him for that.

The young people that I spoke to were actually more fixated on how they can have a bank account and, say, an EFTPOS card, on how they could have the pocket money that is already provided for them by the State given to them directly, and on whether they could possibly have the clothing allowance which is provided for them by the State given to them directly so that they at least had some money to be able to buy themselves a little something should they go out, so they didn’t have to ask somebody else for it. So I’ll be interested to see how the conversation goes.

I very much encourage care-experienced young people to come forward, because at the end of the day we should hear the voice of those young people. It should be the care-experienced young people who we listen to, not the adults that are involved in this—not a business, not a member of Parliament, not a foster parent, but the care-experienced young people themselves. It is somewhat ironic, I would have to admit, that I’ve spoken with employees from Westpac, where KiwiSaver accounts were opened previously under the guardianship rules around the chief executive—at that time it was Child, Youth and Family. There was a purpose to that, because there was instantly a $1,000 kick-start put in by the Government of the day. However, the previous Government—the National Government—removed the $1,000 kick-start, so, therefore, it just became not really relevant to open a KiwiSaver account at that time, due to the fact that there was no lump-sum kick-start and there were fees and management and administrative costs that took place there.

I acknowledge that Mr Walker has actually had conversations with one particular provider. He will know, as I know, and as this Parliament knows, that you can’t write legislation for one particular provider. So it’s those sorts of things, those nuances, that we are going to actually have to talk about in select committee, but we’re prepared to talk about them. We think that it’s worthy of actually having that wider conversation.

We acknowledge Mr Walker’s work to this date. We look forward to the conversation inside the select committee and, as I say, we look forward to hearing from the care-experienced young people as to whether this is a priority for them, does this work for them, or is there something else perhaps that may flesh out once we actually take this to select committee. Kia ora.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It’s an absolute pleasure and privilege to speak on the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill in the name of my colleague Hamish Walker, who sits beside me. It’s a real pleasure for many of us in the class of “class of 2017” new MPs to have members’ bills drawn. I was one, and now Hamish—congratulations, Hamish.

As parents—and I’m one of them—you can barely get your kids to think about school let alone their future. We could sit here and imagine kids owning their own home, having retirement savings, and imagine that also for kids in State care. That’s quite a picture, and that’s quite something that we should aspire to and can aspire to. So what this bill does is project into the future aspiration and future thinking for kids who truly and very much understandably need some support.

I had a quick refresh of Hansard, because this is a debate that was interrupted, and I read Hansard from when Minister Stuart Nash first spoke. He was the first speaker from the Government side on this bill, and I really was confused on where he stood on this bill, because he said, in all sorts of places, “We support the bill, but”—there were many “buts”. And he said that that Labour may be able to support KiwiSavers being open with a zero balance, but then asked why kids can’t just wait until they’re 18 and working. That’s a confusing statement. He said that it shouldn’t just be about these vulnerable kids; it should be about all vulnerable children. Well, actually, we’re just talking about foster kids, kids in State care. It’s OK for us to just talk about this particular cohort of children. He also said that over nine years as an MP, not enough foster parents have approached him on the topic. That’s also a very confusing statement. Who cares how many people have approached him on the topic? This is the right thing to do, and we should pursue this.

When you talk to those that are in the sector, they’ll tell you the same patterns and the same themes for the children who are in State care. One is that they are deprived of options. The other is that they wanted to be treated the same—understandably—as other children. The other is that they would love more self-empowerment—for us to empower them to have the options that other kids have and that, through a various range of circumstances, they don’t have. If they don’t have a KiwiSaver, this is something that we can do on their behalf—we can set up the legislation to get this on the road—and they can take it and build on it themselves.

Speaking of building, it is Hamish Walker’s intention to ask the select committee—should this go through to select committee—for those who are approved foster parents to also have access to getting birth certificates and IRD numbers for foster children. Now, if that should happen and if a select committee process should absorb that, then that will, of course, mean that this is not just a move in and of itself. It can then open up an entire wider package of citizenship rights—a package of rights—and we know that VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, the advocacy group for this particular sector, is asking for this. So let’s see where we go with that.

I’d like to, in relation to VOYCE, acknowledge someone who is very near and special and dear to my heart. Her name is Tracie Shipton. I started, in my charitable trust a few years ago, a few projects with Dingwall Trust. She’s been the director there and has just very recently stood down and is pursuing a full-time position with VOYCE. Tracie Shipton was presented with a korowai and a pounamu the other day, and just a few days later, her husband of 40 years died. Tracie, what you’ve done for the foster care community is nothing short of incredible. I’d also like to acknowledge Chris Kelly, the first person I met at Dingwall Trust, which is an incredible bunch of foster parents doing amazing work for kids in State care.

Kids in State care don’t have, often, visible identity. They’re deprived of options. The principle of this bill is fantastic, and we should be supporting this—all of us—wholeheartedly through to its next stage. Every foster child in New Zealand—it could be up to 6,000 of these particular children—deserves the same rights to access KiwiSaver as any other. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. It’s a pleasure to rise and offer support to select committee for this bill, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. As usual, I would like to offer my congratulations to the member, National MP Hamish Walker, for getting this bill drawn and for leading off in this conversation.

This bill will make it possible for any foster parent or kin carer to approach a KiwiSaver provider to open an account for a foster child in their care. Now the Green Party has long been a fan of supporting low-income families, and children in particular, to be able to contribute to KiwiSaver. We’ve had a policy of actually starting accounts for every child in this country to have $1,000 in KiwiSaver, and for families below the poverty line to be able to have a contribution by the State of $200 a week up until the child turned 18. The intent of that—which would’ve resulted in every child, when they were 18, having an average of $12,000 in their account—is to provide a mechanism to address that wealth inequality that we see in our country, where some children are very lucky to have family money behind them, which gives them opportunities when they come to that next stage of their life, of considering study or employment or just buying a car, to be able to have more options.

This was our policy, so we are quite interested in the discussions around how we can use KiwiSaver to support young people in our society who have fewer resources. So we’re happy to support this to select committee.

I would say, though, that we do have some concerns around the detail of the bill that we will be looking to properly discuss and hear from submitters on. One of the issues that we are concerned about is that while there is a provider, Simplicity, who has said that they won’t charge fees, is it actually appropriate for Government to be setting up a mechanism or a system that privileges one provider that would, over the long term, have a financial return from that? Is that appropriate? If it’s not, and this is actually just set up neutrally right across, then do we want to be in the situation of young people who are not able to contribute but who have the account opened in their name and fees accruing actually ending up with a deficit in their account—so, actually, us contributing to them being further behind than they were in the starting point? That is—clearly, with our goals around improving equity and reducing inequality—something that we could not support.

Also, just to be looking at how this sits with the other arrangements through Oranga Tamariki and the financial delegations which currently for foster carers sit with the agency rather than the foster parents—what are the implications of shifting that for the children? I heard the ideas that were presented from the previous speaker about providing more opportunities for foster parents to be able to support the children in their care, and I do think there’s a question we need to ask about whether this is in the best interests of us as a country when sometimes the foster arrangements may be quite short term. Do we want to be enabling all foster parents to be able to do this, when the child may only be in their care for a few weeks and the implications are lifelong?

I think those are questions we will need to properly interrogate through the select committee process. But we do welcome the conversation, and it is in some ways a nice reversal from the last Government’s erosion of KiwiSaver, so we’re happy to support this.

Malo e laumalie—that there is my contribution to Tongan Language Week. It doesn’t get much better than that, so, with respect, I’ll leave it there.

Let me make my contribution to this, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. KiwiSaver is something that we are big fans of over on this side of the House. We want to ensure that the financial health of New Zealanders is good, is safe, and is strong, and that we’re setting future New Zealanders up for the best possible financial foundation that they can have. Based on that, over on this side of the House, we’re actually going to support this through to select committee because we see it as being vital for consideration. It pains me, the thought that we have to actually stand here and talk about this—that it hasn’t already been included—but for good reason, we’re standing here and we’re talking about it now.

When it comes to KiwiSaver, around 31 percent of New Zealanders aged 17 years old and under are enrolled in KiwiSaver, but there’s a little stipulation there that, actually, if you’re a foster parent, that’s not quite applicable to you just yet, so that’s why we’re having this conversation here. The purpose of this bill is to make it possible for any foster parent or kin carer to approach a KiwiSaver provider and to open an account for a foster child in their care.

We believe that it’s important that children have the ability to be able to set themselves up for a good future—or, in terms of foster children, that the foster parents have the ability to set them up for a good future—so that’s why we’re going to support the bill through to the select committee, although we do it with a few caveats. There are a few stipulations that we want to suggest that the select committee look into as it moves forward through the process. First of all, we would like the select committee to take on board the serious issue around whether there are reasonable benefits of early enrolment to KiwiSaver when those that are under 18 don’t receive the compulsory employer contributions or the member tax credit.

The member tax credit—let’s talk about the last Government and what they did around that. What they did, in fact, was they decreased it. They took it from $1,042 down to $521, they removed the $1,000 kick-start payment, and they also introduced an employer superannuation contribution tax. So not the best record from their point of view, but from our side, we’re just wanting to know about that particular reason.

Also, what happens to accounts with little or no money in them—as my colleague Jan Logie said—when they accrue fees? Unfortunately, fees can be kind of horrendous when it comes to KiwiSaver accounts. When you’ve got a young person that has one of these accounts and they’re accruing fees and maybe not much money is going into it, are we, in fact, setting them up for a future of failure or, potentially, a big bill at the end of it? So that’s something that the select committee needs to look into moving forward. Is this bill in line with other financial delegations over children in care that rest with Oranga Tamariki and not with foster parents?

We also noted in the general policy statement that KiwiSaver provider Simplicity has offered not to charge fees for children in care. So that sounds great, but we ask the question: how do you compel foster parents to actually choose that particular KiwiSaver provider, and what happens when the child in care turns 18 and is no longer a child in care?

These are some of the issues that need addressing. Also, I guess, at a more technical level, we’ve also identified a couple of things as well. For instance, KiwiSaver scheme providers have processes to confirm guardianship of a child but not the position of a foster parent of a child. The bill itself, in the general policy statement, offers at least two options for how enrolment would practically work, but it might need to be investigated just a wee bit more.

We’re very passionate about KiwiSaver on this side, and we look forward to tracking progress through the select committee. We are happy to support it at this stage. I hope that when this bill comes back before the House, we will have answers to some of those issues that were raised by the select committee process. I look forward to seeing how it tracks. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I commend it to the House.

Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker. I’m very pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the first reading, the introduction, of the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill that Hamish Walker, who’s the MP for Clutha-Southland, has introduced and had the luck of the members’ bill ballot. A bill like this comes as a result of an electorate MP listening to members in their community who arrive in their office with some particular challenges, and also with some suggestions.

We need to be clear in this House that we are talking about some of the most vulnerable children in New Zealand and ensuring that they have a better future. I’m very proud of the work that we did in our time in office to improve the lives of children in State care, and this is another opportunity.

It’s a very practical, sensible piece of legislation that means that if a foster parent wishes to have a KiwiSaver account opened in the name of their foster child, they’re able to do so. It’s quite incredible, the process that’s currently in place: the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki is the only person who can currently do this. Now the chief executive has an incredibly important role in Oranga Tamariki, a relatively new organisation, so it is somewhat surprising that this would be the current process. It is absolutely sensible that foster parents or kin carers should be able to open a KiwiSaver account in the name of the foster child in their care.

It also relieves some of the burden of the many social workers that are involved in the care of our children who are in State care, and I think that anything that we can do to relieve that burden is, of course, sensible and to be applauded. They do incredible work in our communities—often very hidden, but some very, very challenging work that they do—so to be able to alleviate a small function like this, I think, allows them to focus on what really counts with those children.

The other thing that I think is important—because the member Tamati Coffey, who spoke before me, referred to what happens when the child reaches the age of 18. Well, I think one of the critical things that this bill makes possible is actually starting a firm financial future for that young person. One of the things that we did in our time was to recognise that when someone reaches the age of 18, it doesn’t mean that they should be expected to be fully independent of the parents—in this case, the foster parents or kin carers—that have helped guide them through their childhood up to the age of 18. So being able to provide additional support for many young people up to the age of 21, and, in some cases, up to the age of 25, actually enables this to occur.

A child reaches the age of 18 and they have a KiwiSaver account in their name. Our side of the House has an expectation that those foster parents remain in the lives of the children that they have raised, to be able to provide guidance and provide advice as they walk through those next critical parts. It might be leaving home, going into employment, or getting a job, and having a KiwiSaver account is, of course, one of the building blocks of their financial independence.

So I think this is a really fantastic bill. It’s very simple but also very practical, and, more importantly, it provides a fantastic opportunity for 6,000 of our most vulnerable children. I want to again thank Hamish Walker for the incredible work he’s done to put a bill into the ballot that we are now debating.

I understand some of the comments that the member before me spoke about, but I actually don’t think he understands the scope of this bill. This is simply about setting up a KiwiSaver account for the opportunity for those foster children across New Zealand, and it’s great to see that there is at least one KiwiSaver provider that has recognised the special nature of these children in their agreement to waive all fees up to the age of five. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.

Thanks for the opportunity to rise to take a short call on this member’s bill, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill, under the name of Hamish Walker. I too want to congratulate Hamish Walker on having his bill drawn out of the ballot.

I’d like to begin by quoting where the Opposition benches last ended their contribution when this bill first came to the House on 8 August. The member Dan Bidois said to the foster parents in New Zealand—and I quote—“You are doing a great service to our community and to this Government, and, for the National Party, you are a priority to us.” Well, where was the priority during their nine years in Government? This bill is a good idea, despite a few reservations, but is this their definition of priority? I mean, don’t get me wrong—this bill is a good idea, and it does deserve to go through the legislative process and be consulted on in good faith. But I question the demand for this bill in light of what I have heard from foster parents and carers themselves, which I will touch base on a little bit further towards the end of my contribution.

In essence, this bill will make it possible for any foster parent or kin carer who has the proof of their foster responsibility to approach a KiwiSaver provider to open an account for a foster child in their care. On that basis, and in principle, this side of the House will support it through to the select committee, albeit with some reservations.

There’s no denying the importance of KiwiSaver, not only as being vital to the financial health of New Zealanders but also to society, and it’s equally important to ensure as many Kiwis as possible have access to it, regardless of what one has had to go through. I absolutely take my hat off to families and carers that open their arms and their homes to a foster child or children. I believe they’ve done so with the intention of providing love, care, stability, support, and an opportunity to set them up for life going forward.

In relation to this bill, we on this side of the House do have a couple of reservations. One: what happens to accounts with little or no money in them when they accrue fees? Long term, do we want our young people with KiwiSaver accounts in deficit? And then what happens when the child in care turns 18 and is no longer a child in care? Let’s not forget that when a person starts working from the age of 18, they’re automatically signed up to an account and enrolled in KiwiSaver, so I kind of question the sense in opening one so young and having a zero balance.

It’s questions and reservations such as these that I’m hoping the select committee process will be able to provide some answers for. What I’m also relying on from the select committee process is that foster carers and parents come in and make it absolutely known that there is a demand for this bill. I say that because, actually—and as I know a few of my other colleagues on this side of the House have already said at first reading—I’m yet to come across someone who has said that as a foster carer or a parent, this is a priority. But what I do know is a priority for those raising foster children is the associated costs, and this should be no burden to those families who choose to take in a child.

Three years ago, Minister Martin put forward a member’s bill on the issue, the Social Security (Clothing Allowances for Orphans and Unsupported Children) Amendment Act 2015. Again, this year, the Government provided $104.9 million of new funding over the next four years to provide a clothing allowance for those on an orphan’s benefit or unsupported child’s benefit.

I worry that the member and the Opposition have perhaps somewhat missed the boat with their focus on children in State care. We currently have 6,000 children in State care and 60 percent of those children are in fact Māori, and that’s really, really alarming. I acknowledge and appreciate that this bill is well-intentioned, but we do have some reservations on this side of the House—but I do commend this bill to the House.

I want to start by thanking members of this House for this debate. I’ve appreciated the genuine desire to help the most vulnerable young people in our communities. When I embarked on this process at the urging of foster parents who want the best for their children, I hoped that every member of this House would be supportive of such a logical move. This afternoon, Parliament has shown the best of its credentials as a Parliament of and a Parliament for the people by supporting this initiative. For that reason, I’d like to thank all members of this House for putting aside politics in the interests of New Zealand’s most vulnerable children: those who have to live separate from or without their parents, and who depend on the love and the support of whānau and, in some cases, total strangers to be parental substitutes.

I also want to thank a few people for bringing this to my attention: first, foster parent Megan Barclay, who met with me to explain the struggles she had experienced trying to open a KiwiSaver account and provide some financial security for her child. This afternoon, I hope you’re listening, Megan, as it’s great to see that every member of this House has listened to your advocacy and is supporting this bill.

Secondly, I want us to thank Sam Stubbs and his team at not-for-profit provider Simplicity KiwiSaver, who have spent almost a year trying to crack the bureaucratic barriers to allowing any foster child to have a KiwiSaver account opened for them. I also saw in the news that he donated $72,000 yesterday to Youthline. This issue is solely about KiwiSaver, and anyone who thinks it is about opening a bank account simply does not understand.

During the many discussions I have had with those in the industry, I’ve had some suggest that our money-laundering legislation is the problem. This is a red herring. Those who think that there is no need for this legislation have not spent the years that Megan Barclay has spent trying to open a KiwiSaver account for her foster child. This bill simply gives New Zealand foster children the same rights to set up a KiwiSaver account as any other New Zealand child.

I personally know of at least five families who have tried through their social worker to get a KiwiSaver account for their foster child and who have been frustrated by the barriers and the processes involved. Of course, not all foster children will be in a position where their foster parents want to, or are able to, apply for a KiwiSaver account, but if this legislation gives just one child a more secure future, it is worth it. If this legislation gives five children a more secure future, it is worth it.

No child should be prevented from having the opportunity to have a KiwiSaver account to help them build towards a more secure future. That’s all I’m trying to do here today. Every one of my parliamentary colleagues on this side of the House supports this initiative. I want to again thank all my parliamentary colleagues for their support of this bill to give every foster child in New Zealand the same rights to open a KiwiSaver account as any other New Zealand child. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.

Bill read a first time.

Bill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.