KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill

I move, That the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider this bill.

Despite the very lengthy title of the bill, this is a very simple issue which deserves the support of every member of this House. The bill was designed to solve a problem and create an opportunity for the most vulnerable children in our communities: 6,000 children who are currently in the care of the State. They are foster children, and it is the hope of every member of this House that these vulnerable children are all receiving the care, the security, the services, and the love that they need and deserve.

Foster parents are the mechanism we as a country use to give these tamariki a family—a family who will care, who will provide, and who will love unconditionally. Sometimes that family is the care of strangers. Sometimes they are whānau carers or kin carers, but the objective is always the same: give the child a safe, secure, and loving environment where their physical and psychological needs are met, where decency and kindness prevail, and where love flourishes.

This House has a responsibility to those children, and I am sure that every member of this House takes that responsibility as seriously as I do. The issue this bill addresses is simple. It seeks to give foster parents the same right as other parents to open a KiwiSaver account for these children. It also gives foster children aged 16 and 17 the same rights to open a KiwiSaver account as any other 16- or 17-year-old New Zealander. This sounds simple, and many members of this House would no doubt ask why this is not possible currently. Why indeed? Well, a foster child is in a very unique position. Often their legal guardian or parent is absent. They may be unable to be contacted. They might be in prison. They might be deceased. For whatever reason, their care is now the business of the State.

For children in this situation, our country allocates that guardianship responsibility to the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki—Ministry for Children. In the absence of a legal guardian or parent, that chief executive is responsible for all decisions affecting that child’s welfare. The chief executive exercises that care through social workers, who themselves are likely to be responsible for many other children. Foster parents or kin carers are the mechanism that is used to reassure the chief executive that a child for whom she is responsible is receiving the care that they need. But there’s a problem. This problem arises when foster parents want to open a KiwiSaver account for foster children in the same way as any other parent can open a KiwiSaver account for their children.

Why would a foster parent want to do this? Let me give you a real-life example of a family where the grandfather wants to provide a legacy for all the children in the family, including the foster children. Why a KiwiSaver account and not a bank account? Very simple: if you want to leave a legacy for a child that you know will only ever be able to be accessed by that child, then that is a KiwiSaver account. As the child grows, he or she may receive other financial bonuses which can be put aside for their future. No one else can access a KiwiSaver account except the account holder himself or herself.

So it’s a good thing to do this for a child—to provide that child who may have had many years of instability and insecurity with a valuable asset that will always be there for them in the future. So why can’t this be done now? Very simple: the chief executive of the Ministry for Children is a very busy person who has thousands of responsibilities. Currently, the only way to get an application to open a KiwiSaver account on her desk is through the social worker who is responsible for that child and, possibly, for hundreds of other children as well.

So form-filling to open a KiwiSaver account is not a high priority for the social worker, for the ministry itself, or, indeed, for the CEO, given her massive job. That’s what this bill was designed to address. If you want to open a KiwiSaver account for a child, you need that child’s birth certificate and an IRD number. Currently, foster parents cannot access those. They need the CEO of the Ministry for Children to do it all on their behalf. This bill gives foster parents who have been approved through the Family Court and who have been given a care plan by that court the right to apply directly for a birth certificate and for an IRD number. It’s that simple. It can be done by the Family Court judge, adding that responsibility to the care plan given to each foster parent through the Family Court process. Until this happens, foster children do not have the same rights as other children in New Zealand who have a legal parent or guardian.

At this point, I want to acknowledge the efforts of a number of very special people: a group of individual foster parents who have been working with not-for-profit KiwiSaver provider Simplicity and talking with the Government and various departments about how this can be achieved. I want to acknowledge the leadership of the Minister for Children, Tracey Martin, who has welcomed this approach, and also the Minister of Revenue, Stuart Nash. I want to acknowledge the support of VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai, the not-for-profit agency which aims to speak for and represent the interests of young people.

Unfortunately, all these people have received pushbacks from those in Government departments who say it’s too hard. To those who are worried about the costs or the admin challenge, I can give you my assurance that this is already taken care of. Not-for-profit KiwiSaver provider Simplicity—and it’s great to see Sam, the founder of Simplicity here tonight with his kids Ben and Emma; great to see you—has already committed to set up a KiwiSaver account for each and every foster child in New Zealand who wants one, waiving all admin fees, membership, and trustee and custodial fees for at least the first five years.

I ask every member of this House to agree to this very simple request to enable our most vulnerable children to have the same right, to access KiwiSaver as any other child in New Zealand. I accept that this bill should go to the select committee for consultation, and I look forward to hearing from foster parents and foster children.

I want to finish by thanking a young person who will remain anonymous in this House, who has allowed me to read this poem explaining their identity dilemma:

So you’ve asked what it takes - to get an ID

To prove I exist - that I am the “Real Me”

I can’t get a job - because IRD

Need to give me a number - to prove I’m the “Real Me”!

So I’m told by social workers - “well you don’t have a birth certificate”

Which in your adult world - kind of makes me “illegitimate”

There is a copy on file - but they say it’s not “the real McCoy”

So the lawyers say we have to go - and pay for one more!

So the powers that be - fill in an application

To get a new birth certificate - so I’m part of this nation!

In the meantime they tell me - “not to worry, it will be cool”

But after 5 months - they must think I’m a fool!

I’m not a fool, just powerless - relying on adults

I still can’t have a bank account - never mind a bank balance!

I can’t get youth rates - to get the bus and train to course

I have to pay as an adult - as there’s no other recourse!

So 5 months later - I am still waiting

No updates or news - it’s really so frustrating

You expect me to be patient - do you not think I have been

Try living my world - not sure you’d be too keen!

So this is my plea - for all of those teenagers in “care”

Can you sort this shit earlier - I wonder if you dare

The lack of these basics - is contributing to my stress

Is it any wonder - I am a teenage mess?

I hold on to “hope” - that somebody will listen

But frankly - it all seems to be too much of a mission!

Just get me my ID - so I can join the adult world

And don’t blame me - for what is quite absurd!

You just don’t make it easy - everything’s so tough

The process is humiliating - it’s really shit and rough

Because I don’t exist - as I cannot prove who I am

Maybe this has come from no one - do you know who I am?

I move this bill.

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. That was a very good speech by Hamish Walker, and I admire his passion. Labour is going to support this bill through to select committee, but we do have a number of major concerns about the bill. But let me start off by saying a couple of things.

First and foremost, we acknowledge that if you’re a child in foster care, then things have gone wrong at some point in your life, or with your parents and your upbringing. It is tough; of that there is no doubt, and I absolutely take my hat off to those people with massive big hearts that have taken in children into foster care—often damaged children, often with their own children, but providing the necessary shelter, the care, the love, and the support that these children have not had from whence they have come. So immense respect for those people who are foster parents.

But this is one of those bills where it sounds good. There are good intentions here, but I suspect it’s one of those bills where if the Opposition had had the experience of a Steven Joyce or a Bill English, or even a John Key, they would have drilled a little bit further and realised there is a little bit more to this than just saying foster parents should be allowed to enrol their kids in KiwiSaver.

First and foremost, under 18 you don’t get the compulsory employer contribution or the member’s tax credit, so by simply opening up an account with a zero balance, you can incur—not you Madam Deputy Speaker; a KiwiSaver member—fees. Now, I do accept the member’s point that Simplicity and one or two other KiwiSaver accounts don’t have fees, but I sort of wonder of the point of opening up a KiwiSaver account and having no balance in there—and keep in mind that when a person starts working at the age of 18, they are automatically enrolled in KiwiSaver anyway. It doesn’t matter where they’ve come from and what their background is—when a person starts working, they are enrolled in KiwiSaver.

I do acknowledge there are 6,000 foster children, and I think everyone in this House will acknowledge the fact that this Government has made it its priority to lift the well-being of children in our community and our society. I think there is no greater commitment to that than the fact that the Prime Minister herself has taken on the personal and portfolio responsibility of seeing this through, of introducing legislation and making it one of her key commitments for this Government’s legacy. So to say—and no one has said this—that enrolling foster kids in KiwiSaver is one of our top priorities really sort of misses the boat about what we’re trying to achieve as a Government.

The member talked about the Minister for Children, Tracey Martin, and I have seen a number of papers that the Minister has brought to Cabinet committees and I know the incredible work that is going on in this Government to better the livelihoods for the most vulnerable in our communities. And some of these are the foster children, but a lot of them are those who are going without food, who are going without shelter, and who have a substandard level of education.

The Minister of Finance will deliver one of the world’s first well-being Budgets. That Budget will say: this is a Government that judges things on more than just GDP. It’s not just about money; it’s about how we are treating the most vulnerable in our communities. Of course, some of the most vulnerable in our communities are our children. We know the statistics; they are terrible. Whilst this bill is well-meaning, there are so many more important things we need to do for the most vulnerable, for these children in our community. I would have thought that perhaps the member could have canvassed something that was a little bit more relevant to lifting kids and families and children out of poverty and into a world where they can engage.

Don’t get me wrong: I have said we are going to support this. We are going to support it. There are benefits of KiwiSaver—I absolutely acknowledge that, as do 2.72 million Kiwis who are part of KiwiSaver. I suspect the vast majority of members in this House are members of KiwiSaver, so we acknowledge this. We acknowledge its importance. I also acknowledge that there are 30 KiwiSaver providers. The member outlined the current process of enrolling in KiwiSaver, saying that you’ve got to go to your social worker, and it’s got to be a priority and it’s got to be done. There is a process to go through, but there is also a process to go through to take a KiwiSaver out of a default provider and into one that is not a default provider. As far as I’m aware, Simplicity or the others with zero fees are not default providers. So it is not simply as easy as going along and signing up.

I would argue that in a number of cases, it is actually easier when you’re developing a programme for foster parents and children to put this as a priority, so it’s listed there by the Family Court judge so the social worker knows that this is one of the steps that is important for the child, for the foster family. That is possibly an easier route than, in fact, requiring a foster parent, who has a number of challenges—in looking after children, there is a number of challenges—to then themselves go and enrol in KiwiSaver. As mentioned, when it’s compulsory, that’s easy. When you start work, that is easy, because you are automatically enrolled, and to get out of it you’ve actually got to make an application, and the rules are changing around that anyway.

So I will be interested to see what sort of submissions we get at the select committee around this, and it’s the reason why we are going to support this to select committee, because I think this is a case where I don’t have a great feel for whether this is a really big priority for foster parents. In my electorate, I’ve met a number of foster parents. There are loose associations or groupings of foster parents, and they come together and they share their stories. I suspect that the vast majority of electorate MPs have similar experiences to me. But I can tell you, in my—how many years has it been?—seven or eight years of being a member of Parliament—

💬 Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Nine now.

—nine years, goodness me. No foster—

💬 Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Oh no, you had a break.

I had a break. I had a cup of tea. I can tell you that in those nine years, no foster parent has ever, ever said to me, “You know, one of the things that I need to be able to do as a foster parent is sign my child up to KiwiSaver.” There was a time when foster parents did not get the same benefits as others who were caring for kids. There are a number of foster parents who struggle to meet the commitments of schooling, of sport, and of other financial obligations that they face in being a foster parent. But never has anyone said, “I just struggle with the fact I cannot enrol the children that I am fostering into KiwiSaver.” That is the reason why I sort of wonder if this is the priority that the member bases this on.

So, as mentioned, we are going to support this bill to select committee, and I will be interested to see if we get a number of foster parents or representative foster parents coming along and saying, “Thank goodness. About time; because this has been a really burning issue for me.” What we might hear, what we may well hear, is foster parents coming along and saying, “OK, well—”

💬 Hamish Walker: That’s where it came from, Stuart. Do you not care?

Mr Walker, to say that I don’t care is missing the point completely—is missing the point completely. What I am saying—what I am saying—is that in my nine years as a member of Parliament, no foster parent has ever—ever—brought up the fact that they struggle to enrol their children in KiwiSaver. In fact, there is a pathway to do that, and as I’ve mentioned, I suspect that it might be easier to put it on the plan.

But anyway, I might be wrong. I could be wrong. What we may get in front of the select committee is a whole lot of foster parents coming along and saying, “This is a priority. Thank goodness this is going to be put in place.”, and in that case we’ll put it through.

💬 Simeon Brown: So be open-minded.

I am open-minded, and that is why we are going to vote this through to the select committee. Do I need to make myself any clearer? Can I make myself any clearer? I suspect that, in fact, if the member went back to his electorate and concentrated on the issues that were important to the people of wherever he’s from, if he spends his time looking after the most vulnerable, then he would do a little bit better and make a little bit of a better contribution.

Anyway, just to reiterate, let’s see what comes back from the select committee. We are going to support the bill to select committee, but let me just say one thing: there has not been a Government in the history of—well, since the first Labour Government—that is doing more to lift children out of poverty than this Government now.

Just before I call the next speaker, can I just remind the House that every member is entitled, on members’ day, to have a member’s bill debated.

It’s a pleasure to be speaking on this member’s bill, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. I’d just like to acknowledge my colleague Hamish Walker and his emotional poetry that he displayed in this performance. I’d also like to acknowledge all of the foster parents in New Zealand. You are doing a great service to our community and to this Government, and, for the National Party, you are a priority to us.

This bill gives equal access to a great scheme for foster children under 18 years of age. We should help foster parents where we can because they are doing a tremendous service in helping to bring these kids up—many of whom are coming up from very tough circumstances. The current process for applying for a KiwiSaver account is cumbersome, and this bill seeks to streamline that.

KiwiSaver is a great initiative—

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Thank you, Labour.

—that’s why the National Government kept it in place. And, yes, I would like to acknowledge that this was a Labour initiative, but this is what the National Government does. We keep good initiatives in place regardless of where they come from. We don’t get rid of things that are going well just because of ideology, and that is what this Labour Government is doing with charter schools, national standards, tax cuts, and the 90-day bill.

This will probably affect about a hundred foster children in my electorate, give or take. This will give these people a leg up in a life that they’ve clearly started out behind in. We should be giving, at a minimum, the same access to these children that other children have as well, but we do need to do more to provide more support and make it easier, in particular, for foster parents when they’re taking and shouldering the burden of our society.

I’ve talked to people in my electorate who actually do this—foster children—and I’m just amazed at the level of burden that they shoulder individually. I do want to mention a particular man that I’ve met in my electorate, and his wife, who, over a period of well over 12 years, have taken on board many foster children. And they often feel like the world is against them—that that level of cumbersomeness, not just in KiwiSaver but in a whole range of processes with respect to the way they are able to provide care for foster children—they just feel like, you know, “What is the point?”, at times. We need to make it easier for these people to be able to do their job and also to contribute to these children’s lives.

The current processes for KiwiSaver for these parents are far too cumbersome. It has to go to the CEO of the Ministry of Social Development at present, and none have gone there at this stage, as I understand, because of how cumbersome it has been. So I would certainly support this bill as a priority because, as I said, of the number of people in my electorate who take on this burden. I would strongly commend this bill to the House. Thank you.

This is an interesting bill, and, as my esteemed colleague the Hon Stuart Nash has said, we will be supporting it through to select committee. And that’s for good reason. It’s an interesting idea, and it’s one that’s worth having a very good look at—and a good-faith look at. We do think there are some concerns with the bill, but we are engaging with the process in good faith. We do really want to examine what is going on with it, whether we can make it better, and whether we can make it work.

It’s an interesting thing with KiwiSaver. It’s not just a retirement saving any more. We know that many young people use KiwiSaver as a way to save for a deposit on a first home, and it’s one of the ways that we can help people to get some security in their lives, as Mr Hamish Walker did talk about in his opening speech. For my husband and I, it was easy for us to opt in for our daughters—to opt in to KiwiSaver, to give them that basis of savings, to start saving for them and with them. And it does seem to be a shame that it is much, much more difficult for foster parents, who take on the role of parents as much as possible, not to have the same fairly easy access to help their foster children. And, of course, foster parents do so out of love. It’s an extraordinary thing that foster parents do, and I think they would do this out of good faith for their foster children. So I commend the idea of making it easier for foster parents to opt in to KiwiSaver with their foster children.

I’m particularly interested in some of the clauses in the bill which talk about 16- and 17-year-old children, who cannot opt in directly by themselves but can do it in conjunction with one of their foster parents. To me, that gives a degree of autonomy to 16- and 17-year-olds. It recognises that they are on their way to adulthood. So that’s a very interesting provision, and I’m delighted to see it in the bill.

For someone who is less than 16 years old, they need to get their foster parent and one of the carers from Child, Young Persons, and their Families Act or guardians or so on to sign in for them, and that does seem to me to be appropriate as well—that people who are still really children do need to get two adults to sign in for them. So I find that an interesting way of structuring it.

What worries me is changing circumstances. Look, it may be the case that foster parents—one set of foster parents—may sign a young person into KiwiSaver, but circumstances change. Perhaps the foster parents lose jobs. Perhaps, sadly, the relationship comes apart. We know that foster caring relationships come to an end. And then they might be committed to a KiwiSaver fund that they can no longer fund themselves. But, of course, the same thing happens with ordinary parents anyway—so those circumstances would be the same.

But I think the more pressing worry is the extent to which fees on KiwiSaver accounts could erode savings that have been made in the name of the young person. Now, there are, of course, low-fee providers, and there is this generous offer from Simplicity KiwiSaver to charge no fees. I wonder if other KiwiSaver funds might also make the same offer, especially with respect to foster children.

Debate interrupted.

Sitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)