Oral Questions

6. to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How will KiwiBuild help developers build new homes for Kiwi families?

Many residential developments across New Zealand have stalled because the developers struggle to find finance on acceptable terms. This is where KiwiBuild steps in to rescue these stalled developments, in three ways. One, it enables developments that otherwise would not be undertaken to be completed; second, it speeds up developments to add to supply faster; and, third, it enables the construction of affordable homes, rather than McMansions that young Kiwi families cannot afford.

💬 Marja Lubeck: What interest has there been from developers in the initiative?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Over 150 developers have approached us over the last few months wanting help to get hundreds of their developments off the ground. Partnering with developers will mean we can use the confidence that the Crown brings to build more KiwiBuild houses faster, to recycle capital faster, and to achieve our KiwiBuild targets with a smaller impact on Crown debt in the near term.

💬 Marja Lubeck: Are there any indications as to how many homes will be built through this initiative?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, initial soundings by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) with these developers are very encouraging, and we are confident that we will meet our KiwiBuild targets for new affordable homes. We’ll have more announcements on this in the next few months.

💬 Marja Lubeck: How does he expect KiwiBuild to increase new residential construction?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The stalled developments that we rescue will not only lead to more KiwiBuild homes but also lead to the construction of more open market homes in those developments too, increasing supply overall. Forecasting residential construction is inherently uncertain and depends on a number of assumptions, but MBIE suggests that KiwiBuild could generate up to $11 billion in additional residential construction over the next four years. We’re getting on with building starter homes for young Kiwi families.

Transport Infrastructure—Regional Fuel Tax Impact and Fuel Price Increases

7. to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all his actions and statements on fuel taxes?

Yes, when described and reported accurately.

💬 Jami-Lee Ross: Will he provide an assurance that his Auckland regional fuel tax will only be paid by Aucklanders and not spread to taxpayers outside of Auckland?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I can confirm that it is a regional fuel tax.

💬 Jami-Lee Ross: Does he agree with the founder of petrol price monitoring company Gaspy that fuel companies appear to be raising prices ahead of the 11c per litre Auckland regional fuel tax, which comes into effect on 1 July?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I haven’t seen that report, but I will say that this Government is taking action on anti-competitive behaviour by the petrol companies. We’re progressing the Commerce Amendment Bill to give the Commerce Commission more teeth. My colleague the Minister of Energy and Resources, the Hon Megan Woods, called in BP recently over their statements, and I’ve directed officials to monitor any price spreading. The petrol companies can be under no mistake as to what our view is of anti-competitive behaviour. If there are indications it’s going on, we will deal with it [Interruption].

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Can I just ask the Leader of the Opposition to just wind it back a little bit—both frequency and volume.

💬 Jami-Lee Ross: If he hasn’t seen that report, what is his explanation, then, for why retail petrol prices increased by 9.3c per litre across the South Island over the last month but only 1.7c in Auckland?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: It’s true that there is inconsistent pricing within the petrol industry. It is not a perfectly competitive market, but our Government’s committed to sending a very clear signal to the petrol companies that we want the best possible deal for consumers, and we’re willing to use tools like the regional fuel tax to invest in a better transport system in our country’s biggest city.

💬 Jami-Lee Ross: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister what his explanation was. In fact, he was talking to the Minister when I was providing figures, so he probably didn’t even hear it. He didn’t provide any explanation at all.

💬 SPEAKER: He both addressed the question and, almost certainly, improperly replied to the irrelevant interjections.

💬 Jami-Lee Ross: Given he’s in denial about fuel price spreading as a result of his Auckland regional fuel tax, does he accept that he is just as bad as BP and he’ll be on Megan Woods’ naughty step fairly soon?

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! Any—

💬 Hon Dr Megan Woods: I’ll answer it!

💬 SPEAKER: No, well, it’s clearly ruled out for irony. The member knows that.

Education—Programme

8. to the Minister of Education: What actions has the coalition Government taken to work with New Zealanders to develop a future vision of education?

Consistent with our coalition agreement with New Zealand First, over the last two weekends, Ministers Martin, Salesa, Henare, and I were in Christchurch and Auckland for two education summits involving almost 1,600 Kiwis from all walks of life. The summit events are a key part of bringing people into the process of improving and modernising our education system to set it up for the next 30 years. We want to work together with everyone who has an interest in education: students, parents, teachers, employers, Māori, Pasifika, those with disabilities, and others from our diverse community. As well as this, we’re also seeking to engage with people whom the education system has failed. So far, nearly 10,000 people have taken part in the online conversation and almost 1,400 New Zealanders have contributed their views in our summit events.

💬 Jamie Strange: How will the discussions at the summit inform the wider three-year programme in education?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: It’s important that while we undertake reviews of Tomorrow’s Schools and the NCEA, put in place a new early learning strategic plan, reform the way we manage school property, and fix up the vocational education and training sector, we need to ensure that we’re shaping an education system that meets New Zealanders’ hopes and aspirations for the future. The education summit conversations will play a very important role in informing that reform programme.

💬 Jamie Strange: What steps is the Government taking to address some of the issues raised in the summit?

💬 Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: One of the issues that was raised consistently through the summit was lack of available support for those with additional learning needs, particularly in early childhood education (ECE). Early intervention services make a real difference to a child’s development in learning for the rest of their life. On Sunday, the Prime Minister announced that an additional $21.5 million for early intervention services will help nearly 8,000 more children get the support they need over the next four years. This extra funding will halve the waiting time for early intervention services in ECE, and I would like to thank both New Zealand First and the Green Party for their tireless advocacy to make this happen.

Children—Stand Children’s Services Funding and Closures

9. to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by her statement in relation to childcare services that “We need to know who the kids are; what places are best going to meet their needs; and then match them”?

on behalf of the Minister for Children: Yes. Those comments were made in relation to care placements. Obviously, the better we can match carers and children, the better the outcomes. What we know is that strong, stable, and loving relationships are key for children. Going forward, we also need to design and purchase services that work best for children and will best meet their needs.

💬 Hon Alfred Ngaro: Does she agree with the Central Otago Mayor Tim Cadogan and Clutha Mayor Bryan Cadogan about Stand Children’s Services in Roxburgh meeting the children’s needs and, I quote, that they did “utterly critical work, … no other agencies provided the intensive, residential, wrap-around service[s] the Roxburgh facility provided for children who had experienced … trauma.”?

The mayor’s comments that are made in relation to Stand are made almost on the premise that funding has been cut. I need to assure this House that Stand is still receiving $20 million each year to provide intensive wraparound services to children and their families—the same amount of funding that was received under the previous Government. Stand, though, has decided to close two of their villages—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: You’re shutting them down.

Stand has decided to close two of their villages. These villages have nine intakes per year with a maximum of 21 children per intake. The Minister has directed the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki—Ministry for Children to track the 21 children at any given time that would normally be referred to the village. The chief executive of Oranga Tamariki will ensure that any additional support that is required is made available to these children.

💬 Hon Jacqui Dean: If her Government’s aim is about looking after vulnerable children, what service provider will replace the only facility in the whole of the lower South Island providing intensive, residential treatment for traumatised children and their families to best meet their needs?

Oranga Tamariki has given assurances that the children will still receive the services they need through the ministry and through a range of other providers, including Stand, Anglican Family Care, Mirror Services, and Presbyterian Support Otago. That network of services is made up of competent, professional providers who are already moving towards more integrated ways of working across the child well-being, health, and education sectors in the region.

💬 Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Can the Minister confirm that at any given time in Roxburgh there are roughly 21 children utilising this service and that therefore, by necessity, there are a range of other services available through the country to meet the kinds of needs Stand meets in just seven current facilities?

I can absolutely assure the House, on behalf of the Minister, that that is the case. There are other services providing the types of wraparound and therapeutical support that those two villages were providing, as well as there are still seven existing villages, I understand, that continue to operate and provide that therapeutical support.

💬 Hon Alfred Ngaro: How can she tell Stand Children’s Services, the 21 children per month that utilise the beds in those villages, the 220 children per year, and the 85 that are on a residential waiting list that the $3 million funding required could not be secured at this time—and I quote—“because of the restrictions on the Government budget”, when her Government found a billion dollars for diplomats, invested $2.8 million—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member’s question finished some time ago.

I can assure the children and the families of those children that they will continue to get the support that they need. I will raise with the member who just asked that question that the last time any additional funding was given to these particular services was back in 2009. If the previous Government were that concerned, then perhaps they should’ve made the investment earlier.

💬 Darroch Ball: What is the Minister doing to ensure that children get the best services that they need?

Excuse me, Mr Speaker. I forgot that we had one other question coming, perhaps. On behalf of the Minister for Children today, Oranga Tamariki are holding the first of 14 regional hui with their 525 providers to talk about how they will work together in the future to ensure that all services meet the best needs of the child. Collectively, they receive around $268 million from Oranga Tamariki per year. The ministry is trying to give them greater certainty around their funding and is moving to longer-term contracts—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume her seat. David Bennett will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Hon David Bennett: I withdraw and apologise.

The ministry is trying to give them greater certainty around their funding and is moving to longer-term contracts, but they are also being challenged to think about the design of future services. These need to focus on the best outcomes for our children and not be locked into a particular organisation.

Minimum Wage—Effect of Increase

10. to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does he stand by his statement on Q+A, in respect of New Zealand businesses, “if a small change to the minimum wage is going to be that detrimental to them, they don’t sound resilient”?

Yes, in the context of the question I was answering when I made it.

💬 Hon Scott Simpson: How many jobs will be lost as a result of what he calls “businesses coming and going” because they are unable to afford increases in the minimum wage and other Government-imposed compliance costs?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: That’s a hypothetical question and—[Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order!

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: That’s a hypothetical question.

💬 Hon Scott Simpson: When he said “businesses need to be resilient.”, what is the Government going to do to help small businesses, other than to tell them to harden up?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: This Government is making changes to our tax system, to make it fairer and work better for businesses. This Government is investing in research and development tax credits to support high-productivity businesses, and this Government has a regional development growth fund to support businesses in the region. This is a Government that is very active in supporting businesses around the country, and it’s a good thing we finally got one.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Does the Minister agree with Mike Hosking, who said last week, “Isn’t that the point of economic expansion and success, the money and profit gets spread about the place?”

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: Yes. I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Mike Hosking. I also agreed with him when he said “maybe it’s time we shake off the low wage economy tag, and start handing out the dosh; maybe it is time for a pay rise.”

💬 Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Would it be true to say that the Minister’s answer proves the adage that even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day?

💬 SPEAKER: That could well be true, although the Minister is clearly not in the—no, I think we’ll leave that. But I will say it was not a point of order, and for that reason the Opposition will have two additional supplementary questions.

💬 Hon Scott Simpson: Does he think his weekend comments that “a lot of businesses come and go” support the Prime Minister’s commitment that “I’m interested in how we can ease the burden on small businesses in particular”?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I’m advised that it is absolutely a fact that businesses come and go. In fact, just a quarter of the businesses that started 10 years ago still exist today. It’s called capitalism—I thought that member would understand that.

💬 Kieran McAnulty: Does he agree with Richard Prebble that the response to these changes from business has been hysterical?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I think that was a bit unfair of Mr Prebble to say that, although those comments do fit the Opposition perfectly.

💬 Hon Scott Simpson: What does he say to hard-working small-business owners and operators employing staff and often earning less than their employees—that they must simply absorb all increased Government-imposed costs or go bust?

💬 Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I have more faith in them than that member does, clearly, because I believe they are resilient, they are strong, they are adaptable, and that as this Government leads us to a more productive, sustainable, and inclusive economy, they will be on that path with us.

Growing Up in New Zealand Study—Announcements

11. to the Minister for Social Development: What recent announcements has she made regarding the Growing Up in New Zealand study?

Mr Speaker—

💬 Hon David Bennett: Oh, has she got her notes this time? Good on her!

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Today, I announced that the Government would restore more than $1.9 million—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume her seat. Now, Mr Bennett, your interjections are very, very frequent. Referring to members using notes in the House to answer questions is an area which is totally my responsibility and not for you to comment on. I would like to remind the member that several of his colleagues rely heavily on notes, not to answer questions, which is quite a lot harder, but even to ask them.

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Today, I announced that the Government would restore more than $1.9 million of funding to the Growing Up in New Zealand study. Growing Up in New Zealand is the country’s largest longitudinal study of child development, gathering information over time about what it’s like to grow up in 21st century New Zealand. The children and families at today’s announcement were relieved to know that they will be able to continue to be part of the study, to tell their stories, and to share their experiences of growing up in New Zealand.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: What does this mean for the participants in this study?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Today’s announcement means that all of the 6,800-plus families who have been part of this study since it began can now be invited to participate in the current round of data collection. Our decision to restore funding also comes at a critical point in the project, where, for the first time, this study is hearing directly from the children themselves. Around 2,000 child interviews have been completed this year to date, and with the new funding, interviews of the remaining 4,800 children will now be able to be completed.

💬 Angie Warren-Clark: Why is this important?

💬 Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: These families committed to this study for 21 years. To pull a significant number of them out at year 8, after a considerable personal investment, poses significant issues with the integrity of the findings and poses ethical challenges. With this funding, we won’t be doing that. Restoring the sample size gives us time to preserve one of the study’s unique characteristics and strengths: its diversity of participants. It will allow us to draw insight across a broad range of communities, to develop policy and services that help New Zealand to be the best place to be a child.

Beneficiaries—Obligation to Take up Seasonal Work

12. to the Minister of Employment: Does he stand by his joint press statement with the Minister for Social Development of 16 March 2018, which said “Seasonal work can be a good option for many people looking to get back into work and for some could provide the type of work life and meaningful employment they are seeking”; if so, what is his policy response to jobseekers who would rather stay on the dole than take up one of the 7,000 fruit-picking job vacancies that are available?

💬 SPEAKER: OK, I’m just going to ask the member to ignore the additional words that were in the question, over and above what was here.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. In response to the first part of the question, of course I stand by my statements. As for the second part, the policy response for job seekers remains the responsibility of the Minister for Social Development.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Does he stand by his statement that “people have commitments,” as reasons that unemployed New Zealanders cannot pick fruit, and, if so, how many commitments does an individual need to not have to show up to work?

💬 Hon David Bennett: How many commitments have you got?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Of course I stand by—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! David Bennett, once again you have interjected, involving me in the answer, and what we’re going to do is have you on an interjection ban for the rest of this question time and tomorrow. [Interruption] Order!

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Of course I stand by my statements in terms of people having commitments. The member fails to understand. This isn’t about being tough; this is about being caring and compassionate for all those people who make up our communities. This is a Government that’s been clear right from the start that we are a caring Government, and we want to see people do well. As a former Minister for Social Development, that member should know that.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Minister as to whether or not his department has given him reports that suggest New Zealanders cannot pick fruit because their hands are too big, as was said by a former National Party Minister?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: No, I haven’t quite seen those reports yet, but I’ll wait for them to come over my desk.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Has he discussed this labour shortage with his colleague Shane Jones, who said of unemployed people not in education or training that “They’ll be made to go to work,” and “there’ll be no more sitting on the couch.”?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I’ve had many wonderful conversations with Mr Jones. I think we’ve discussed that many times, and sometimes we agree to disagree.

💬 Tamati Coffey: Why does the Minister believe that seasonal work can be “a good option for some”?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Kia ora. I believe the information collected by Work and Income indicates that for some, seasonal work is a good option. For example, we have seen many Kiwis placed into work in the Hawke’s Bay for short durations. For others, as I keep saying, there are barriers that need to be considered, such as travel, childcare, and health—all of which can make them unsuitable for short-duration placements.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Should unemployed ne’er-do-well nephs sitting on the couch in the Bay of Plenty, the Hawke’s Bay, and Tasman be expected to pick fruit if they are physically able?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Again, I suppose it depends on the circumstances: sometimes yes, and sometimes no, because they have family commitments and they can’t just walk away from their family at the drop of a hat.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Does he agree with an RNZ report that some job seekers would rather stay on the dole than pick apples, and does him constantly excusing people on the dole from working help?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Yes, and no.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: So what sanctions would he apply to job seekers who have tried picking fruit, lasted only half a day, and would rather remain jobless?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of sanctions, I have no delegations as the Minister of Employment for sanctions. However, currently Minister Sepuloni has a wide-ranging review of the welfare system, and I fully support the review and the work that the Minister is currently doing.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: So if unemployed New Zealanders in the Bay of Plenty, the Hawke’s Bay, and Tasman, with commitments, are asked to work and don’t show up, does he believe the welfare system should sanction them?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Again, as I said last week, it’s not black and white; it depends on the circumstances. Obviously, there will be some who have to go through that process. The other side of that is that there are some real excuses why sometimes people can’t travel, like whānau—they can’t just walk out on their kids—like no transport costs, and like no accommodation costs. There are a lot of reasons, but it is not just black and white, as the member well knows.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Supplementary—

💬 SPEAKER: No, that concludes oral questions.