Oral Questions

1. to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has he seen on the strength of the Government’s finances?

Today, Treasury released the Financial Statements of the Government for the nine months to March. These showed core Crown tax revenue at $57.5 billion, $1.1 billion higher than forecast in the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU). The Crown’s operating balance before gains and losses surplus was $3.3 billion, $910 million higher than the HYEFU forecast. This shows that after six months of this Government’s financial management, the economy continues to perform well.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: What did Treasury say contributed to these better than expected results? [Interruption]

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Modesty prevents me. Treasury said that corporate and income tax revenue was above forecast, indicating that business profits have grown more in 2018 than Treasury thought and that employment growth has remained strong. This is consistent with figures released in the household labour force survey last week, which showed the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest level since December 2008. It is very pleasing indeed to see businesses continuing to succeed and create jobs.

💬 Willow-Jean Prime: What do these results show about the Government’s fiscal management?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: These numbers show that the Government is delivering on its commitment to manage the books responsibly. While it’s encouraging that the economy is delivering additional revenue, it is important that we use this revenue wisely. In Budget 2018, we will continue to balance the important priorities of responsible fiscal management and making the investments—

💬 SPEAKER: OK, that’s enough. The member—

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Oh, they were so interested!

💬 SPEAKER: Well, they’re so interested they’ve got an extra two supplementaries.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the finance Minister as to how it is that unemployment has fallen as the Government has announced an increase to minimum wages—or, in short, why hasn’t the sky fallen in?

💬 SPEAKER: The Minister can answer the first part. I think he’s not claiming responsibility for the second.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No, no. I’m most certainly not, Mr Speaker. What I can say is despite the regular prognostications that the minimum wage increase will lead to huge reductions in employment, that has never been the case, and in fact we’re very proud of the fact that unemployment is now the lowest that it has been in 10 years.

Business Confidence—Employment Law, Immigration Policy, Offshore Oil and Gas Exploration, Overseas Investment, and Primary Industries

2. to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government’s policies and actions?

Yes.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: What effect on business confidence and investment will there be from David Parker’s announcement on Q+A in the weekend regarding nitrates and his statements that he hasn’t done any analysis on the economic impact of reducing the country’s dairy herd because “We’ve won the political battle. Now it’s about implementation.”?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The characterisation of this issue is totally incorrect. We have been talking about—[Interruption] The member may have missed this, but we have been talking about water quality and our desire as a Government to make sure that our rivers and our lakes are swimmable again, as the rest of New Zealand wants, since the election. We’ve been talking for months about the need to update our national policy statement, which, I have to say, was totally ineffectual under the last Government, and we’re currently consulting the Land and Water Forum, as we speak, which is also the group that the last Government used.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Well, in light of what David Parker’s been saying, is switching to apricots the Government’s new economic strategy?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member wants to make a mockery of making good land-use decisions, which is the example that the Minister was making in that interview, then be it on his head, but what we want to do is make sure that we up the value of our exports, that we take into account the environmental impacts of our current economic use of our land, and that we get better outcomes for New Zealanders. This side of the House is a bit more ambitious than that side.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: What effect will there be on business confidence and investment from Damien O’Connor signalling a climate tax for farmers, significant cost recovery for Mycoplasma bovis, and the Government no longer supporting large-scale irrigation projects?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I’ve said, we’ve got to make land-use decisions that make good, sound economic sense. That’s why we’ll no longer subsidise large-scale Crown irrigation schemes. When it comes to the issue of Mycoplasma bovis, we would not be having this debate if that last Government funded biosecurity properly. We’re cleaning up the mess that Government left.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Will the decision to end offshore oil and gas exploration be attractive to overseas investors in oil and gas specifically, or in New Zealand more generally?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Why rely on me when we can use a quote from OMV, which has agreed to buy the Māui fields and holds half this country’s exploration permits, “This has no impact on existing licences, neither on production licences, neither on exploration licences. We are in a very good position in New Zealand.”

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Well, then is the Prime Minister aware that Ballance Agri-Nutrients has this morning stated that a decision on its future $1 billion ammonia-urea plant is “a lot murkier” because of the Government’s oil and gas ban, and can she see the ripple effect on investments not just in the oil and gas sector but much more broadly?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Any—and that member knows this; he’s being mischievous—exploration permit that would be issued in a 2018 block offer would not be available for at least 10 years. If any business says they have a security of supply issue, that’s something that would have had to have been resolved probably 10 years ago, not today.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Are the Government’s changes to the overseas investment regime likely to be good for business confidence and inward investment?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We want to encourage foreign direct investment that contributes to our productive economy. That’s where all New Zealanders benefit, and we make no apologies for making sure that New Zealanders find that residential housing and farmland is affordable, and that they are able to contribute to their own economy domestically.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Well, what about her Government’s industrial law changes; what effect are they having on business confidence?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’d say that the current unemployment rate, the current revenue that we’ve just announced today, says that this economy is looking in pretty good shape.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: What’s the Government’s current position on immigration policy?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I have to say, in a recent business meeting I had there were significant concerns raised about the last Government’s policy settings and the impact that it’s having on their ability to meet skills gaps. What this Government has said it wants to do is make sure that we’ve got an education sector we can be proud of, a proper labour market test, and that the regions aren’t left high and dry with skills gaps like we’re already seeing.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: So what is the Government’s current immigration policy?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Exactly the same one we campaigned on.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Prime Minister to publish the coalition agreement so that these naïve, innocent questions aren’t in the House like they are today?

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she think the business community understands what the Government’s current immigration policy is?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. There has been no change in that policy. There is a small issue of making sure that we do the policy development work, which is under way now. But what I have to say is that in the intervening period, I’ve had significant concerns raised with me around the effects of that last Government’s policies and the impact they are having on people’s ability to fill shortages.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Does she think that the various issues I’ve raised in question time help explain the decline to a negative 23 percent in business confidence in New Zealand?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think it explains why this Government’s popularity has gone up in the polls.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: Aren’t there very real, very significant reasons for the business confidence “elephant in the room”, as she’s recently described it?

💬 Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Let’s look back on history. The last time we saw this trend—look, as I’ve already acknowledged—was when Labour had what was dubbed as the “Winter of Discontent” but at the same time had the strongest continuous economic growth since World War II, the lowest unemployment in the OECD, and delivered nine consecutive surpluses. It’s all about proof of what the economy’s doing, and on this side of the House we’ve got good signs.

Economy—Crown Debt

3. to the Minister of Finance: Can he confirm that the Half year Economic and Fiscal Update shows the Government borrowing an extra $10 billion of net core Crown debt?

Without the benefit of knowing what time period the member is referring to, it’s difficult to give a definitive answer. I can, however, confirm that the Government will, using the debt measure that the previous Government did, reduce net core Crown debt to 20 percent of GDP by 2021-22. I can also confirm that the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) shows that, given that the economy is growing during this period, the amount of cash borrowed will rise while that percentage reduces.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: What will be the annual debt servicing and finance costs—to the nearest $100 million is fine—of the extra $10 billion this country will now have in core Crown borrowing in 2022?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I said in my primary answer, the member will just have to wait to see the final cash amounts of the debt track when it comes to the actual accounts of the Government. But what I can say is that this Government has said from day one that we will slow down our debt repayment track because we actually need to invest in infrastructure like housing and make sure we restart things like contributions to the Superannuation Fund.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: Is the Minister saying, 10 days out from the Budget, that when he announced in the HYEFU in December his commitment to borrowing an extra $10 billion, he did so without knowing what the debt servicing cost of that extra borrowing will be?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is that this Government has never made any secret of the fact that in order to clean up the mess left by the previous Government, we need to slow down our debt repayment track. Next Thursday, the member will be able to see all of the detailed costings that she’s after.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: So, over and above the $10 billion of extra debt he has already announced, how much additional debt will Crown entities incur in 2022?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I’ve just said in my previous answer, the member will get all of the numbers that she’s looking for when the accounts come out next week. But what I can say very clearly is that this Government has a plan which is fully costed. There are no ghost cheques written out—like the previous Government did—for houses or anything like that. This is a Government with a fully costed plan.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: So at the same time that he’s touting large Government surpluses and a growing economy thanks to the previous Government, why is he racking up billions of dollars in extra borrowing—

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Too long.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: —and committing hundreds of millions of dollars in financing costs to New Zealanders?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, all of that—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! The right honourable gentleman knows that the only judge of the length of a question is me. He also knows that we have a practice now of not interjecting during question time. So, because it’s a double problem, I will give the Opposition an extra two supplementaries.

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: All that list emphasises is the scale of the challenge that the previous Government left us. When you’ve got $2.4 billion worth of underfunding in health, when you’ve got early childhood centres who’ve had a real-terms funding reduction, and when you’ve got police stations closing and leaks all through our hospitals, it’s going to take quite some time to recover from that. But we’ve got the plan to do it.

💬 Hon Amy Adams: So do the larger Government surpluses he has today touted mean that the Government now won’t be cancelling its commitment to lower GP costs for all New Zealanders?

💬 Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member will have to wait to the Budget to see what happened there, but I can understand her concern. Given that GP costs went up by 44 percent under her watch, this Government’s actually going to do something about that.

Housing—Homelessness

4. to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: What is the Government doing to reduce homelessness this winter?

On Friday, the Prime Minister announced the first step in tackling New Zealand’s record rate of homelessness. Investment of $100 million will provide more than 1,500 additional emergency and transitional public and Housing First places. Budget 2018 will also fund Housing First services for more than 1,450 households over the next four years.

💬 Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki: What effect will these measures have on homelessness?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Past neglect means that homelessness is likely to get worse before it gets better. Initiatives that we announced will mean 1,500 fewer families and individuals living in cars and garages this winter. This Government is committed to increasing supply. We’ve stopped the State house sell-off, and now we’re expanding Housing First. There’s a lot to do, but this Government is committed to ending homelessness in New Zealand.

💬 Anahila Kanongata’a-Suisuiki: What will the funding boost for Housing First deliver?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The $20.5 million of new spending in Budget 2018 will properly fund Housing First to more than 900 households in Auckland, Christchurch, Tauranga, Wellington, and Lower Hutt, which the past Government did not fully fund, and $43 million will expand the Housing First programme to a further and additional 550 households in other regions.

KiwiBuild—Cost, Private Sector, and Supply

5. to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How many houses will be built under the KiwiBuild programme?

We will build, on average, 10,000 homes per year over 10 years. The KiwiBuild programme includes a larger, faster ramp-up than the Christchurch rebuild. It’s comparable in scale to the first Labour Government’s State house building, which went from 400 houses in the first year to 4,000 in the third. That member would know these things take time if her party had built any houses.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: When he said in November 2017 that the Government would build 16,000 KiwiBuild homes before the next election, what did he mean?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: What I meant was that we would build 16,000 homes in the first three years of the KiwiBuild programme—1,000 in the first, 5,000 in the second, 10,000 in the third. That building programme—16,000 in the first three years—kicks in when the $2 billion Budget appropriation takes effect on Budget day.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: So why did he tell Parliament last week that the Government would now build only 8,000 KiwiBuild homes before the next election?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, it depends when the election is held, but our plan is to deliver 1,000 in the first year, 5,000 in the second, 10,000 in the third, and 100,000 homes by 31 June 2028.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: How will the private sector be involved in building KiwiBuild houses?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The private sector will be engaged in the building of KiwiBuild houses through the buying off the plans initiative, which we’re announcing today. Under this programme, and we’re releasing the tender documents very shortly, KiwiBuild will be underwriting or buying off the plan houses—KiwiBuild homes—in private developments that would otherwise not be built. If the member knows the first thing about what’s currently going on in the residential housing market, she will know that there are many developments that are stalled or not happening because developers do not have access to finance.

💬 Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What interest has there been from members of this House in building KiwiBuild houses?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well, we’ve had a great deal of interest from members of this House in the KiwiBuild programme, and I want to acknowledge in particular interest from one member of this House, who’s passed on a developer in her electorate who would like to be part of the KiwiBuild programme. I thank the member Judith Collins for passing on that interest in the KiwiBuild programme.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Perhaps the Minister would like to table that.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I can’t quite tell if that was a point of order or not. I think, seeing as it was a letter that mentioned the honourable member, there is an expectation now that it be tabled.

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I seek leave—

💬 SPEAKER: No, you don’t need leave. It’s just going to be tabled.

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: OK.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I suspect the rule that you’re referring to talks about official documents and an obligation on Ministers to table official documents. I think it would be somewhat of a stretch to argue that a letter from a member of the Opposition is an official document. It’s not been produced by anybody official. However, I think, therefore, the appropriate course of action, given there is interest in this, is for the Minister to seek leave to table it.

💬 SPEAKER: My view is that it is a document which is received in the official capacity by the Minister. He has it in the House—I have seen it—and therefore I think it is appropriate that it is tabled under that Standing Order. So it will be tabled.

Document laid on the Table of the House.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: How many KiwiBuild houses has he built in his first eight months as Minister?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: We announced the other day, at McLennan, in the honourable member’s electorate of Papakura, that at McLennan we have stepped in to save a failing development that the private sector was unable to take up. KiwiBuild has moved in. We’ll have 30 KiwiBuild homes completed, with families moving in before Christmas. If KiwiBuild hadn’t intervened at that point, there would still be grass growing on those sections.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Is the answer none?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Those buildings are not yet completed, but I urge the member to stay tuned because there is going to be a procession of KiwiBuild announcements every week, and after a few months I guarantee she’ll be sick of hearing about KiwiBuild homes that have been completed.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: If the private sector is on track to deliver 127,000 houses over the next four years, as the Reserve Bank estimates, how does he propose building his now 8,000 KiwiBuild homes without taking carpenters, electricians, and plumbers from the private sector?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: The member should know that at the moment in the construction industry there is actually some increasing amount of capacity that’s becoming available because financing constraints are holding up many developments. That’s exactly the idea behind the KiwiBuild policy, which is about intervening in a failed housing market that under that Government completely failed to deliver the affordable homes that young Kiwi families need.

💬 Hon Judith Collins: Would he like to take this opportunity to explain to New Zealanders why his 16,000 KiwiBuild homes, costing taxpayers $2 billion, have now become 8,000 KiwiBuild homes, costing taxpayers $2 billion—in just eight months?

💬 Hon PHIL TWYFORD: We’ve always been very clear that the KiwiBuild programme will be ramped up over three years. The $2 billion capital kick-start that will be announced in the Budget will be spent approximately 20 times over the 10-year period. That is the most efficient investment that any Government could make in making affordable homeownership available to a generation of young Kiwi families, which is the opposite of the touching faith that that Government showed for nine years in a market that completely failed to deliver the houses that young Kiwi families need.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Speakers’ rulings 142(2) and 142(3) contain descriptions of what’s deemed by previous Speakers to be official documents. The definition adopted by previous Speakers is much more narrow than the definition that you have just adopted. The last sentence of Speaker’s ruling of 142(3) is: “It must be of an official nature and written by a Government official in the course of the officer’s official business.” That’s significantly narrower than the definition that you have adopted, and I’m concerned that it does actually set a difficult precedent for the House if any correspondence between members and a Minister is judged to be official documentation.

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: I don’t have it at hand, but there’s a Standing Order that makes it very clear that documentation used to attack a member of Parliament can be tabled in Parliament. There are other remedies for members. You’ve taken a pretty middle course here today, which has seen it dealt with. It’s quite clear that that question would not have progressed or been settled on by the Government if they did not have that letter. So it seems quite reasonable, given it is part of authentication, although not required for the question, that it’s tabled in the House, as you have suggested. The other point I would point out to the Leader of the House is that Speakers actually do make rulings themselves, without reference to the past.

💬 SPEAKER: Sorry, I’m just going to look up the—[holds up Speakers’ Rulings]. I think the member needs to consider the whole of the Speaker’s ruling, and the beginning of the Speaker’s ruling is “An official document includes a document”. It doesn’t say that that is the only sort of document; it says “includes”. I think if the member had read the Standing Order in full—

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Read the one above it.

💬 SPEAKER: I’m not going to read the one above it. I am going to give the Opposition two extra questions because a member’s interjected while I’m on my feet. But my view is that where a document has been received officially by a Minister, including by correspondence, the author of the document has indicated that she has no objection to it being tabled, and it is within my power to order it to be tabled; I have. Right—where were we at? We’re at Question No. 6.

Economy—Offshore Oil and Gas Exploration, Primary Industries, and Saudi Agri-hub

6. to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he regard it as good practice to carry out economic analysis of the likely effects of proposed major policy decisions?

Yes.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Will he insist, then, that a proper cost-benefit analysis is done before the Government makes decisions affecting stock levels in this country?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: We don’t need cost-benefit analysis to decide if it’s the birth right of New Zealanders to have rivers clean enough to swim in. Cost-benefit analysis is used to compare the costs and benefits of different ways to remedy the problem, as will happen when we make our changes to the national policy statement on water.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why, then, did he not insist that a proper cost-benefit analysis was done before the Government made its oil and gas decision?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Economic cost-benefit analysis that does not take into account environmental consequences is about as useful as an udder on a bull—therefore, I’m not surprised that the member’s party is advocating for it.

💬 Hon Paul Goldsmith: What would he say to the proposition that a Government that’s not interested in understanding the effects of its decisions on jobs and on people’s livelihoods is negligent in its basic duty to New Zealanders?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I reject the implication in that question. I would further note that there is an enormous amount of analysis of the impact of climate change caused by fossil fuels, which I recommend that the member reads.

💬 Hon Nathan Guy: Did the Minister tell the Land and Water Forum that New Zealand’s dairy herd numbers need to be reduced by one million cows?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: No.

💬 Kiritapu Allan: What Government initiatives is he aware of that have not involved a robust economic analysis?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I’m aware of a scheme to spend $11.5 million—in fact, it’s still spending it—building a sheep farm in the Saudi Arabian desert, paying millions—

💬 SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat.

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I’m being asked this question as Minister for Economic Development. I have responsibility for that project that is spending $11.5 million on a farm in the desert, and associated abattoirs. I believe it is in order for me to alert the House to the nature of that project.

💬 SPEAKER: And I think there are two points: one, I’m not sure that the member will add anything new; and, secondly, it’s been repeatedly indicated that it is not appropriate to use Government patsy questions in order to attack the Opposition.

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Speaking to the point of order.

💬 SPEAKER: No, I’ve dealt with the point of order, Mr Parker.

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 SPEAKER: I want an assurance from the member that he’s not going to contest my ruling.

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: This question went to the need for economic analysis. This question goes to the need for economic analysis, and I’m at a loss to see how it is not within the range of supplementaries on the primary question.

💬 Hon Nathan Guy: Has the economic development Minister been able to ascertain from the environment Minister why he told the Land and Water Forum that New Zealand’s dairy herd numbers need to be reduced by one million cows, reducing exports by $3 billion a year?

💬 Hon DAVID PARKER: Given that I hold both roles, I can absolutely assure the House I made no such request or assertion to the Land and Water Forum. What is clear is that cow numbers have already dropped. The point that I have been making in the media in recent days is that if you want to have swimmable rivers, you have to decrease nutrient discharges to water bodies. A cap and allocation of nutrient discharge rights in some area does impact on cow numbers. Regional councils understand that. They need a hand so that they don’t repeat the same scraps as to the proper nutrient allocation methodology through each region in New Zealand when this can be achieved through national guidance.

Health Services—New Dunedin Hospital

7. to the Minister of Health: What recent announcements has he made regarding Dunedin Hospital?

Last week, I announced the location of the new Dunedin Hospital. It will be built on the site of the former Cadbury’s factory and parts of surrounding blocks. It’s a major milestone for the project and represents a major step forward to delivering the 21st century hospital that the people of the South have waited for for far too long.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So why was this site chosen?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Early on, we made a commitment to build the new hospital in Dunedin’s city centre to give certainty to the local community, including local business owners. This is important because it means the new hospital will retain important links with the University of Otago and existing medical facilities nearby and, indeed, the polytechnic. The site also provides flexibility for the design process and allows for further development down the track if it is required.

💬 Dr Liz Craig: So what are the next steps to progress this project?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Now the site is selected, planning and design will progress with haste, feeding into a detailed business case to be presented to Cabinet in the middle of next year. Work will also start on the resource management consent process. We remain on track to start construction before the next election. The people of the South have waited too long for their new hospital, which is exactly why we’re moving ahead without delay.

💬 Hon Michael Woodhouse: On what date, to the nearest month, did the Southern Partnership Group first resolve to recommend to the Ministry of Health that the preferred location be the former Cadbury’s site and surrounding blocks?

💬 Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I don’t have that detail with me today, but it was not so long ago, I can tell the member.

Police—Increase in Sworn Staff

8. to the Minister of Police: Does he stand by his statement last November that his Government will be hiring 1,800 sworn police officers; if so, why did he tell The Nation this weekend that not all 1,800 officers will be sworn police officers?

Yes, I stand by my statement, and, since last November, the New Zealand Police have provided me with more advice around the 1,100 community officers and 700 officers in the organised crime squads. This Labour - New Zealand First Government has always been clear that we are striving to deliver 1,800 new police officers over three years. That, Mr Bishop, is 920 more officers than the previous Government promised in Budget 2017.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why has he spent the last six months talking big about 1,800 extra sworn police officers, when it turns out the Government is actually only going to fund 1,100 front-line officers and 250 non-sworn, authorised officers?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Well, first of all, your figures are wrong. But the member does seem confused. Let me—

💬 Chris Bishop: That’s what you said—that’s what you said on The Nation.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: An authorised officer is considered a sworn officer, in all stats, by this Government and the previous Government, but they’re more clearly understood as a front-line officer. For example, a police forensic accountant or a police electronic crime investigator can have the power to arrest a person, take finger prints, search a person, and execute a court warrant. The one power they do not have is the power to stop a vehicle. What they will be stopping is methamphetamine and other illicit substances being traded through international shipping networks and cyber networks such as the dark web.

💬 Chris Bishop: Why did he say on The Nation that it hasn’t been completely decided what the mix of front-line and non - front-line police will be when the Budget is under two weeks away and decisions should have been locked away weeks ago, and does this explain why he didn’t take any papers to Cabinet or Cabinet committee in the first three months of this year?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I’ll reiterate what I said on the The Nation. The member seems confused. The allocation between community officers and those in the organised crime squads hasn’t been determined—

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: But we did that—we did that.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: —but what we’re thinking at the moment is around about 1,100 community officers and around about 700 in organised crime squads. So the organised squads, Mr Bridges, are those men and women who are out there fighting crime on the front line. In fact, the member will be very interested to know that the new organised crime squad in Tauranga has just busted a serious crime ring that was responsible for spreading and distributing synthetic cannabis into Auckland and up and down the country. These—

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member’s been going on for far too long.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is this the most dramatic increase in police numbers since 2005-08, the last time Labour and New Zealand First were involved in getting police numbers up?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: That member is dead right. The last time the police received any new numbers was when Labour and New Zealand First had a coalition agreement to increase new numbers. Thank you very much, New Zealand First.

💬 Chris Bishop: Well, following on from that question from the Deputy Prime Minister, can he confirm the extra 383 cops on the beat since he became Minister were all funded through National’s 2017 Safer Communities package?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: What I can say is that we are striving—[Interruption]. What I can say is that there are about 400 officers who leave the service every single year, so to deliver on our 1,800 we need to train about 1,000 new officers a year just to replace churn. We are striving very hard to deliver 1,800 more. This is, as the Deputy Prime Minister mentioned—

💬 SPEAKER: All right. OK—OK.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: —the largest increase in police numbers—

💬 SPEAKER: Order!

💬 Hon STUART NASH: —ever.

💬 SPEAKER: Order! I just say to Mr Nash, when he sees that I’m on my feet, he will resume his seat. He doesn’t deliberately look away like a naughty child.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Oh, for goodness’ sake! Stop that—I reject that.

💬 SPEAKER: The member will stand, withdraw, and apologise.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: I stand, withdraw, and apologise. I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not—you know, I find it objectionable that you would stand there and compare me to a naughty child. I take personal offence to that.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, Mr Nash, it is my experience of naughty children that when they see their parents have observed them doing something they shouldn’t do—I was on my feet; you saw I was on my feet, and you, after that, looked away and continued to speak. That, in my opinion, deserves that sort of approach.

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Well, I disagree.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member might want to disagree, and the National Party will have an additional two supplementary questions for the interjection while I was on feet—again.

💬 Greg O’Connor: What assurances has the Minister received from the Commissioner of Police about the capacity to deliver on this coalition agreement commitment?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: The Commissioner of Police has given many assurances, most recently in the select committee for the Police financial review, that Police were on track to recruit, train, and deploy. It is anticipated that around 400 officers will leave the service during the average year. We are planning for this attrition with a target of around 1,000 new recruits to be trained each year, in order to meet our commitments.

💬 Chris Bishop: Can he guarantee to the House that entry standards and police training standards will not drop under his watch, as part of the drive for 1,800 extra sworn front-line officers?

💬 Hon STUART NASH: Yes.

Job Creation and Employment—Bay of Plenty, Fruit Picking, and Hawke's Bay

9. to the Minister of Employment: How many unemployed people are there in the Bay of Plenty and Hawke’s Bay?

As of March 2018, there are 9,800 unemployed people in the Bay of Plenty and 5,900 people unemployed in the Gisborne-Hawke’s Bay region. Statistics New Zealand does not publish a breakdown specifically for the Hawke’s Bay.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Does he stand by his statement of 13 February, “we still have 343,000 workers who want more work but can’t get it.”; if so, does he think unemployed New Zealanders who can pick fruit should?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Yes, I do stand by my statements on 13 February. In terms of unemployed New Zealanders picking fruit, it’s not so simple. There are a number of complex reasons why people are not picking fruit. [Interruption]

💬 SPEAKER: Order! Can I ask members on my left to settle down, please—especially members not very far to my left, who are quite noisy.

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: It’s not just about getting a big bat and whacking people and telling them to go out and pick fruit. There are lots of circumstances that come into play, like accommodation, like family obligations, like community obligations. It’s not about using a big-bat approach all the time.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: Does he think that it might be difficult for people to come from the Pacific Islands to a country they don’t know, stay in a region where they don’t have family, get up every day and pick fruit, yet they’re able to do it, yet he doesn’t think New Zealanders should?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Obviously, it’s hard for some of our Pacific Island brothers and sisters, but this Government is clear that we are committed to employing and increasing the workload for our people. We want to get New Zealanders first into this industry rather than go down the easy route that the National Party did for nine years. They never put a plan in or any organisation with regards to seasonal workers. We only have to go back to 2009 when John Key talked about a plan for seasonal workers and we got nothing.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I appreciated the Minister answering my question but felt that the bit about the National Party was unnecessary and going on.

💬 SPEAKER: Well, the member will now stand, withdraw, and apologise. I’ve made it clear to the Deputy Prime Minister earlier in the day that the responsibility for the length of answers and their quality is mine. He was punished, and the member will withdraw and apologise—

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: I withdraw and apologise.

💬 SPEAKER: And with a light punishment.

💬 Hon Paula Bennett: If unemployed New Zealanders in the Bay of Plenty and Hawke’s Bay that are on an unemployment benefit are asked to do work and don’t show up, should they be sanctioned?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We’re still going through that process at the moment. This is not a punitive Government. Our Prime Minister has made it very clear that we are a caring Government, we are addressing that issue right now, and we won’t be punishing everybody who mucks up, like the previous Government.

💬 Tamati Coffey: What is the Minister of Employment doing to improve employment in the Bay of Plenty and the Hawke’s Bay region?

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: What a great question.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: You wrote it.

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Ha!

💬 SPEAKER: I did not.

💬 Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We are investing in our regions. We’re investing in our young people with He Poutama Rangatahi. We have Government initiatives like the Sector Workforce Engagement Programme, who are specifically working with key stakeholders in the horticulture and viticulture industry, and we have industry partnership engagement through the Ministry of Social Development—so much going on at the moment. We’ve got a plan in place in terms of what’s happening in the Hawke’s Bay at the moment. We won’t go down the easy route and just hire foreigners all the time. We’ll do the business right now to fix the problem, but our overall goal will be to employ New Zealanders.

Defence Force—Repatriation of Remains

10. to the Minister for Veterans: What progress, if any, has been made regarding the Government’s decision to repatriate the remains of New Zealand military personnel and dependants who were buried overseas after 1 January 1955?

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Tēnā koutou i ō tātou tini mate, koutou kua whetūrangitia ki te korowai o Ranginui, koutou kua wehe atu ki Te Pō, ki Te Atua i te ārai, ki te okiokinga o ō tātou tūpuna, haere, haere, haere!

[Salutations to you collectively in regard to the myriad of our deaths, you who have become immortalised as a star upon the cloak of the great Sky Father, you who have departed to the void, to the god at the barricade and to the resting place of our ancestors, go forth, depart, farewell!]

Yesterday, I, on behalf of the Government, attended a ramp ceremony at Ōhākea airbase, welcoming home three New Zealand Defence Force personnel, who were repatriated from Fiji and American Samoa. It was a privilege to stand with the families of our fallen, as a Royal New Zealand Air Force C-130 Hercules returned Flight Lieutenant George Beban, Leading Aircraftman Ralph Scott, both from Fiji, and Royal New Zealand Navy engineering mechanic First Class Russell Moore, from American Samoa, to New Zealand soil. The repatriated personnel were received with a pōhiri and a tri-service guard of honour, after which they were handed over to their families. A short, private family service was held, followed by a moving haka. The families will now reinter their loved ones in a place and at a time of their choosing in New Zealand.

💬 Darroch Ball: What can the Minister tell us about the military personnel who were repatriated?

💬 Hon RON MARK: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, my office contacted you and said this answer may be a little longer to do it justice.

💬 SPEAKER: Yes, yes, I understand that.

💬 Hon RON MARK: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I can report to the House that flight lieutenant George Thomas Beban MBE served in the Second World War as an RNZAF medic. He was discharged at the conclusion of hostilities. He re-enlisted in 1948 as an RNZAF secretarial officer. In 1954, he was posted with his family to an RNZAF station at Laucala Bay as a senior secretarial officer and press liaison officer. He died of natural causes aged 40 on 31 August 1956 in Fiji, and was buried in the military section of the Suva Cemetery.

Leading aircraftman Ralph Henry Scott enlisted in the RNZAF as a fireman on 27 December 1956. He also served from 1952 to 1956 in the Royal Air Force as a fireman. After a period of basic training, he was posted to RNZAF Base Ōhākea as a fireman. In August 1960, he was posted to the fire crew at RNZAF station Laucala Bay in Fiji. He died of natural causes aged 28 on 15 October 1960 and was buried in the military section of the Suva Cemetery.

Engineering mechanic 1st class Russell James Craig Moore enlisted with the Royal New Zealand Navy on 28 July 1955. He was posted to the survey vessel HMNZS Lachlan, and while on the ship in Pago Pago, American Samoa, he died in an accident aged a very young 19 on 9 July 1956. He was buried in the naval section of Satala Cemetery in Pago Pago.

💬 Darroch Ball: When will the remaining repatriation ceremonies take place?

💬 Hon RON MARK: I can report to the House that there will be three more tranches of service personnel who will be repatriated: 29 service personnel and one child will come from Malaysia, and one service person from Singapore. They will be repatriated as one group and will arrive in New Zealand in mid-late August 2018. Two service personnel from the United Kingdom will be returned to New Zealand in mid-September 2018, and two more service personnel from the Republic of Korea will be returned to New Zealand in mid-October 2018. All of the ceremonies will follow the same format as that that was conducted yesterday, and will include senior representatives of the nation, senior defence officers and officials, and representatives from the veterans’ organisations and communities.

💬 Darroch Ball: What additional support is the Government providing to the families?

💬 Hon RON MARK: The coalition Government is funding the disinterment, repatriation, and reinternment of the deceased at no cost to families—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: You appropriated it.

💬 Hon RON MARK: The contribution of $1,000 will be made towards a memorial—

💬 Hon Gerry Brownlee: You appropriated it.

💬 Hon RON MARK: —for those reinterred in a public or private ceremony. The New Zealand Defence Force, Mr Brownlee, has assigned liaison officers to the families, and will also offer additional support to reinternments if families request it, such as pallbearers, a chaplain, and a bugler. If families do not wish for their loved ones to be repatriated, then the Government will continue to care for their graves overseas.

💬 SPEAKER: Before we move to the next question, during question No. 8 there was an interchange between myself and the Hon Stuart Nash. I twice used an expression which, upon reflection, I think was inappropriate. I want to apologise to Mr Nash and to the House.

Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Commentary

11. to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by his reported statement on submissions on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill that he was surprised by how many were flawed and “I am stunned at the number of times professors, legal experts, constitutional experts have actually got their analysis about the bill wrong”?

As I said to the member last week in response to, essentially, the same question, yes. However, I realise now that I was erroneous in the original quote that he made of me in that when I referred to academics, legal experts, and constitutional experts I clearly omitted Opposition backbench MPs!

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Would it be possible under his bill, as stated by Auckland University constitutional law professor Janet McLean, for a Government to avoid losing a vote of no confidence in this Parliament by dismissing and replacing an MP who has lost confidence?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: As I also said to the member last week, decisions made by MPs, two-thirds in each caucus, as well as all the other people who accompany them in their decision making, are political judgments. Under the bill, when it is enacted, MPs will continue to make the same sort of political judgments they always have, including the last time we had electoral integrity legislation.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was a very serious question about votes of no confidence and how this bill would change those, and I quoted one of New Zealand’s most serious constitutional lawyers. The member did not answer the question as to whether it would be possible for a Government to avoid defeat in a no-confidence motion with this bill.

💬 SPEAKER: But he did address it. Is there a further supplementary?

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Has the Minister read the highly critical editorials of his bill in the New Zealand Herald in Auckland, the Dominion Post in Wellington, The Press in Christchurch, the Otago Daily Times in Dunedin, or is it his view that these editors also all have got it wrong?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I have read those editorials and other things besides, and, as I said in the quote where he quoted me in his primary question, I am stunned that in all of those cases they proceeded on the basis of asserting that the legislation provides for the leader to remove a member from the House. That is not what the bill provides for.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does the Minister stand by his statement in Parliament in which he specifically said his bill was consistent and compatible with the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014, when the Clerk of the House has made a submission saying it is not; or is the Minister now saying the Clerk of this Parliament is wrong?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: That member is incorrect in his adumbration of the Clerk of the House’s submission to the select committee on the application of the Parliamentary Privilege Act. He did not say it does not comply with the Act. He raised some concerns about what he described as a potential blurring of the boundaries, to use my language, of that Act. The bill is totally consistent with the requirements of the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: How can the Minister say that his bill is consistent with that Act, when our Clerk of the House says that he has significant concerns about the compatibility of his bill with the Parliamentary Privilege Act, and why is he continuing to insist that everybody is wrong, including the Clerk of the House, on his bill?

💬 Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I can say it because I have read the Clerk of the House’s submission to the select committee, and I’ve read it very carefully. I do not share that member’s understanding—or, I suspect, misinterpretation—of the Clerk’s submission to the select committee.

Energy and Resources—Natural Gas Supply

12. to the Minister of Energy and Resources: When was the last significant hydrocarbon discovery in New Zealand?

I’m advised that the last significant hydrocarbon discovery was Tūrangi onshore gas in 2005. Tūrangi currently represents about 5 percent of New Zealand’s total natural gas production. This was followed by Kōwhai in 2008. This is also an onshore gasfield and represents about 2 percent of total production. I’d point out to the member that both those fields are onshore and, of course, a block offer process for onshore Taranaki is currently under way.

💬 Jonathan Young: Why is the Minister so upbeat that, of the 100,000 square kilometres of permitted area, 10 to 15 percent could turn into producing fields, when, as reported, the last 79 wells drilled since 2006 have not seen a commercial discovery of gas?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: It’s not just my natural optimism that makes me so upbeat; it is the fact that we have OMV—the company that owns more than half the mining and exploration permits in this country—who, just at the end of last week, said the exploration acreage is “enough to keep our firm busy for the next 10 to 15 years. The ban declared last month does not affect producing assets.” They went on to say, “This has no impact at all. It has no impact on existing licences, neither on production licences nor on exploration licences.” They went on to say—I’m sure the member will be very heartened to hear—“We are in a very good position in New Zealand.”

💬 Jonathan Young: Considering the recent history has not been as positive as the Minister sounds, what is her plan for homeowners, businesses, and industries who rely on gas, when by the end of next year current gas reserves start to fall short of meeting current gas demand?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I reject the assertion in the member’s answer. The current quality assured—

💬 SPEAKER: Question.

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Sorry, question. The current quality assured estimates for what the gas reserves are in New Zealand are published annually in the Energy in New Zealand publication. That currently sits at around 10 years. The numbers are currently being quality assured for 2018 and will be released. I’d like to reassure that member that when the company that holds more than half the permits for mining and exploration in this country is proudly proclaiming “We are in a very good position in New Zealand”, I have good reason to share their optimism.

💬 Jonathan Young: Is the Minister aware of how many terawatt hours are required to switch gas users to electricity, in their thinking that this is a sunset industry?

💬 Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: That is a hypothetical question, but what I would like to point out to the member is the potential that we have in the consents that exist out there—100,000 square kilometres, roughly the size of the North Island. If you take the industry’s own conservative estimates of a 10 to 15 percent chance of finding a find that is economically viable to drill—this is 10,000 to 15,000 kilometres. We currently have 1,756 square kilometres in production. We are talking about an area 5.5 to 8.5 times the area currently in production. I think that member should stop scaremongering.