Appointments — Assistant Speakers

I move, That Munokoa Poto Williams be appointed as an Assistant Speaker.

Poto Williams has been MP for Christchurch East since 2013 and has nursed her electorate through the post-earthquake experience in a very diligent and caring manner. She’s been a member of the Health and Social Services Committees. She has been very high on the list of speakers in Parliament for the then Labour Opposition, and has, I think, demonstrated through her time in the House an ability to work with all parties in a calm and fair manner.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I simply raise two matters, effectively for your guidance and potential ruling. The first is really in relation to Standing Order 13(1), which makes quite clear that a member who doesn’t take the oath or affirmation is, of course—they’re not able to sit or vote in the House. It’s a question, firstly, about that, and then, secondly, of course, this is really more than simply not being present. We know that, in relation to that, Standing Order 16(2) makes quite clear that a member’s absence has to be on account of extraordinary circumstances beyond his or her control. So I’m simply, really, seeking your guidance, as I say, Mr Speaker, about whether validly having not been sworn in or affirmed—being unable to vote, being unable to sit in this House—one can nevertheless become a presiding officer.

💬 Hon Chris Hipkins: Mr Speaker?

No, I don’t need any assistance. The matter is quite clear—it is dealt with, as the member says, very specifically in Standing Order 16(2). The member is absent on parliamentary business. She is a member of Parliament and is eligible to be elected.

💬 Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I suppose the question is—

No, I have ruled. The member will take his seat—the member will take his seat.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It’s a separate—

💬 Mr SPEAKER: A separate point of order on an unrelated matter?

Well, it’s a separate point of order, Mr Speaker. You have dealt, I think, with the question of being away, and I think you’ve implicitly said on “extraordinary business”. My point, though, was a different one, and it is a question of whether she is validly able to be a presiding officer given that she has not been sworn in.

I ruled on that when I dismissed the member’s point of order, and I just want to make absolutely clear to the member that it is a matter that I have looked into, I have researched, and I am absolutely confident that the member is able to be elected as a presiding officer of this Parliament, because she is a member of Parliament notwithstanding the fact that she hasn’t been sworn in.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

💬 Mr SPEAKER: I’m really hoping the member is not going to—I’m going to be kind and let the member have a point of order.

I’m sure that your patience wouldn’t run out this quickly. I’m perhaps not surprised if it has.

💬 Mr SPEAKER: Don’t count on it.

The question that is being asked is: is there a difference between the way in which a member of Parliament is treated for remuneration purposes according to the Remuneration Act? You’ll recall there was quite a to-do over this in the early 2000s, where there were people who came to Parliament and then subsequently left etc., and there was some clarification that although a person had not been sworn into Parliament they could be treated as if elected for payment purposes, so they could set up offices and they could make their own arrangements, knowing that they would be. But that does not mean that a person who is not sworn into Parliament is a member of Parliament. The question would be: does that mean that someone from outside the sworn members of Parliament could be elected to a presiding officer position?

OK. We could let this run for quite a long time. I am of the generation of members—unfortunately, the other person who can remember it well is not here today—where members of Parliament were elected in November, generally the third Saturday, and the Parliament didn’t sit until May. They were still members of Parliament for that time. Poto Williams is a member of Parliament and she is eligible for election. I am going to say now, for Mr Bridges: unless he has a new and different argument to bring, then I’m advising him not to dispute it further. I think it’s fair to say that it was a question that I asked myself when I saw the nomination, and I have spent some time researching and considering the matter, taking advice, and I am absolutely confident of the position.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think it would help to see the ruling, so that we can then understand what the significance of swearing in is—a process we all went through yesterday. If this ruling is to stand, of course, it means that swearing in doesn’t mean much because we could carry out our roles anyway. So that’s why it would be very useful to see a ruling set out.

Sure. Just to make it absolutely clear, Poto Williams would not be able to take the Chair or to speak in the House until she is sworn in. So she can’t actually do the job; she can be elected to it.

Motion agreed to.

I move, That Adrian Paki Rurawhe be appointed Assistant Speaker.

Adrian Rurawhe has been a member of the Government Administration Committee and a member of the Education and Science Committee. He has a quiet yet forceful persona, and I’m sure he will be a diligent champion of the rights of all members of the House. He is respected and liked across the House, and I’m sure that he will do this job well.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I simply want assurance, because, today, of course, on the whips’ door, it says Adrian Rurawhe. Of course, the Standing Orders make it quite clear—

No. The member will resume his seat. The member is now trifling with the House. [Interruption] Order! Order! I—[Interruption] Mr Ball, you will stand and apologise.

💬 Darroch Ball: I apologise.

I want to make absolutely clear that when I’m on my feet there will be no interjection whatsoever. Mr Ball suffered from being the loudest; they were coming from my left and my right. But I want to make absolutely clear that to retain order in the House, that be the case. And I do reiterate my comments, Mr Bridges. The member knows well that anything that is on a door in this Parliament does not bind this House.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I take it—and I genuinely, simply, want to understand the situation—we are correct in working according to the Standing Orders. Standing Order 35, “Notification of party details”, makes quite clear that the Speaker must be informed—I think it’s in writing, by convention—who the various leader officers are.

The member will resume his seat. And I have been, and Mr Rurawhe is not a whip.

Motion agreed to.