Motions — Clerk of the House of Representatives—Retirement

I seek leave to move a motion without notice recognising the retirement of Mary Harris, the Clerk of the House.

💬 Mr SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none.

Well, we will ignore Mary, so there is no objection from anyone else. I move, That this House recognise the retirement of the Clerk of the House, Mary Harris, and put on record our appreciation and thanks for her years of service to Parliament. Mary was appointed Clerk in December 2007. She began her career in Parliament in 1987. Before coming to Parliament, she worked for the Department of Statistics, producing the labour force statistics in the household labour force survey team. She was a professional violinist, captained the Wellington women’s cricket team from 1982 to 1986, and was vice-captain of the international 11 in the 1982 Cricket World Cup in Christchurch. She taught Brendon McCullum everything he knows.

Mary has had a varied career within the Office of the Clerk, moving her way up to be the Clerk of the House via the Select Committee Office, Clerk at the Table assisting the Clerk, reporting services, Deputy Clerk, and finally, of course, Clerk. During her time here, Mary has been involved with a number of important pieces of parliamentary reform. She was involved in the development of services for MPs in the first MMP Parliament and in bringing Parliament into the 21st century, with the upgrade of the parliamentary website. She led the implementation of the Clerk’s leadership development programme, has represented New Zealand and presented at numerous Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conferences, and has aided in the strengthening of democracy in the Pacific, notably the strengthening of the role of Parliament in Vanuatu.

Since Mary became Clerk in 2007 she has served three Speakers—Margaret Wilson, Lockwood Smith, and yourself, sir—all of whom speak very highly of her work and the leadership she has shown, in particular her focus on working with the Parliamentary Service to achieve common goals in the service of Parliament and parliamentarians. Mary’s last day is on Thursday, and I understand that she will be spending some time after that cycling around Italy before returning to build a new home in Ōtaki Forks and to focus on honing her goal of becoming an expert fisherman. I know that we all wish her well for retirement, and that we look forward to a booty of great smoked fish being delivered to Parliament and tabled when we can at the next opportunity.

I am pleased, on behalf of the Labour Opposition, to support the Prime Minister’s motion on the retirement of Mary Harris, Clerk of the House. Thank you, Mary, for your years of service to our Parliament—28 of them, starting in 1987. Your experience, as the Prime Minister said, has been in most sections of the Office of the Clerk, from the Hansard Office to select committees to the Deputy Clerk of the House, and then 7 years as the Clerk. Some of us were here under the previous Clerk, Dave McGee, who was considered the foremost authority on the workings of a Westminster parliament. They were always going to be big shoes to fill, Mary, but you have filled those shoes, and perhaps your preparation for facing the googlies of this place came from the fact that you were in the 1982 Women’s Cricket World Cup, averaging 41 runs in that match against our old adversary Australia. I am told that Mary is a right-handed batswoman, and that is the only time that she has shown preference between the right and the left.

Mary is our first woman Clerk and our first non-lawyer as a Clerk, and she has led the House through a great period of change, particularly technological change, with the e-committees. Some of us are still getting to grips with those changes, Mary. She embraced change, but not at the expense of Parliament’s enduring values. She has shown a strong commitment to finding new ways for Parliament to be open and accessible to the people who elect it, and we are the better for it. With Mary’s guidance there have been some important changes in the procedures for the smooth running of the House, such as extended sittings. Under her leadership, the Office of the Clerk has been described as a “little gem”—I think that is probably a pretty good description of Mary herself, actually.

MPs have come to regard her as an impeccable and impartial source of advice, and, like her predecessor, she too is now widely respected in Parliaments around the world. For example, Westminster, the home of our type of parliament, sought her opinion on their governance arrangements earlier this year. An attribute so important in a Clerk is to have a phenomenal recall of long-forgotten Standing Orders, Speakers’ rulings, and the House proceedings, and Mary has that recall, matched only by our Trev. Her patience is legendary, and it was hugely tested during the drama of the Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill, which saw the tabling of over 30,000 amendments, mostly from Labour, and mostly, I have to say, proved to be right. Nine hundred and sixty-two of those amendments were voted on, with all the work that the Clerk’s Office and Mary put into that. Another less-known attribute is her ability to cover the distance between her office and the Chamber at breakneck speed, in a gown and high-heeled shoes, at the sign of any meltdown by members of this House.

In 2013 Mary was awarded the Companion of the Queen’s Service Order for services to Parliament, which was so richly deserved. It has been a privilege to work with you, Mary. We thank you and we wish you the best in the next stage of your full and interesting life. There is life after Parliament—I have just seen Eric Roy and he is 14 kilograms lighter. So you can look forward to fishing, cycling, whatever comes your way, but we thank you very much for the service you have given us.

Tēnā koe, Mary. On behalf of the Green Party, thank you so much for all of the years that you have made a contribution to this Parliament. You have done an incredible job in the time that you have been Clerk of the House and in the years before that. It has been a real privilege to work with you, and with the team that you have built. Under your leadership I think we have seen a great deal of growth and progress in Parliament. It has been fantastic to have a woman in the role of Clerk of the House, and I am sure that many more women will follow in time as a result of your leadership and example. Parliament is so much more accessible to so many more people as a result of your work, and that is what makes our democracy so great; that is why we are all so committed to it.

You have always been very kind and very generous with your time and your knowledge to our staff, to our new MPs, and to new co-leaders, helping us navigate not just the process in this place but sometimes the very tricky politics that also apply in the process, and for that we are very grateful—thank you. You have also never been afraid to tell it like it is to anyone who needs to hear it, including MPs, and even just last week you made it quite clear, and rightly so, that perhaps we MPs need to grow up and get over ourselves somewhat, and not be quite so sheltered any more. Maybe it is time for our bad behaviour to be made more public and used for satire. I think that was a great statement to make as part of your process of leaving this place. We are, after all, all here as examples to our country of leadership, and we have been very pleased that you have shown that leadership yourself.

So thank you, on behalf of us all, for all of your hard work. We wish you really well for whatever comes next, whether it is retirement or something else. There are a great many more contributions that you can make to our country, so thank you.

We want to acknowledge, too, that David will be taking on the role of Clerk, and we look forward to his work and to seeing how he will step into your shoes, too. They are big shoes; no doubt he will do a good job, as well, but thank you, Mary, for all of your work over these years. Kia ora.

Kia ora, Mr Speaker. On behalf of New Zealand First, I rise to join with others in thanking Mary. I have not been here very long, but one of the things that I remember, and that I acknowledge and thank Mary for—and I know that our new MPs will, too—is the effort that she and her officers have put into supporting us. I have had the privilege to travel since I have been in this job, and one of the things that I have discovered, or rediscovered, is that, actually, politicians come and go, but it is the public servants and people like you who actually hold our democracy together. It is you—sorry, you, Mr Speaker, also, but Mary and her team—who makes sure that we follow the rules, because most of the time we spend our lives pushing against the rules and pushing those boundaries. We push you to your limits at times—both you, Mr Speaker, and Mary.

So, Mary, just very quickly, on behalf of us all in New Zealand First, we want to acknowledge the many things and the many years that it has taken you to get to that position. As a woman and a feminist I want to acknowledge you smashing that wee glass ceiling. I hope it stays broken. David, that is nothing against you; we expect to have great things from you. But to you, Mary, all the best. Nothing interferes with life as much as work. I am sure that there are so many more things and so much more that you will give to us as a country once you return from your cycling holiday in Italy, because you will not be able to help yourself. You are that type of person, Mary. So thank you, thank you, thank you, from all of us here. Kia ora.

E te Māngai o te Whare Pāremata, otirā, ki aku hoa o roto i te Whare, tēnā tātou katoa. Kua huri au ki taku Reo Māori ki te mihi ki a koe, Mary. E pēnei ana taku kōrero ki a koe i te mea, ko koe te mea i whakatūwhera nei kia taea ai e au, a Māori nei, te whakatakoto ēnei momo kōrero ki mua i te aroaro o te Whare Pāremata e tū nei.

I taku taenga mai ki tēnei Whare, ā, arā noa i te taha o te Mana Whakawā tētahi e noho ana. Ko tāna mahi he whakapākehā i ngā kōrero Māori ēngari, i noho hōhā nei te Whare i te mea, ka kōrero ana au i taku kōrero i Te Reo Māori, ā, ka tatari ake kia kōrero Pākehā te tangata nā, hōhā katoa ana ahau ki te tatari kia whakawāngia taku Reo Māori. I hōhā katoa te Whare nā te roa o te kōrero ēngari, ka puta te kōrero a te Pāti Māori kia whakamanahia tō tātou Reo i roto i te Whare. Ko koe te mea i whakatūwhera nei te kuaha kia taea ai e au te tū ake ki te mihi ki tēnā, ki tēnā, ki te kōrero i te Reo o ngā mātua, o ngā tūpuna. Nō reira koinei au i whakaaro ake, he pai kē te mihi ki a koe i Te Reo Māori. Nā runga i tērā me te mahi i oti i a koe i ngā rā o mua, ā, anei te whakatinanatanga o tērā o ngā mahi.

Nō reira, koinei te mihi o te ngākau o te Pāti Māori, kaua nō māua ko taku tuahine a Mārama ēngari, he mihi anō hoki nō mai i a Tā Pita Sharples, i a Tariana Turia i te mea, anā, ko rātau i noho nei i raro i te korowai o te Pāti Māori. Ko koe tērā te ringa āwhina ki a rāua, otirā, ki a mātou katoa i te taenga mai ki roto i te Whare Pāremata; koutou ko David, tērā David kua puta ēngari, arā, ko tō hoa i tō taha i nāianei, ā, ko ia te tangata ka kawe i te rākau.

Ko tētahi āhuatanga kua kite nei au i ngā tau i noho nei au i roto i te Whare Pāremata, ko tō ngāwari ki te whakatau i ngā take. Kāre i puta he riri, kāre i puta he raruraru ko tāu, he ngākau ngāwari, ā-kōrero, ā-tinana, ā-wairua. He āhuatanga ātaahua tērā! Ko te wahine, ā, ko te wahine tērā! Ka mutu, i roto i Te Ao Māori ko ngā mea pēnā i a koe he tohunga tonu. Tēnei kupu ko te “tohunga”, ko ēra ko te nuinga ka whakaaro ake, ē ko te tāne ēngari, ko te tohunga nā te mea mōhio nei ki te whānuitanga o te mātauranga. Ko Te Ururoa i noho mataku nei ki te pukapuka Ngā Whakatau a Te Hunga Whakawā, me Ngā Whakataunga Tūroa o Te Whare Māngai. Mēnā he raruraru i puta, ā, kua haere tika tonu ki a koe. Ko tāu mahi, ko te āwhina i a mātou.

Nō reira, e kore e mutu waku mihi ki a koe, otirā, kia haere i tō haere me te mōhio anō hoki, ā, ko Te Reo Māori i tēnei rā, kei te kōrerohia i roto i te Whare Pāremata o Aotearoa, i whai wāhi koe i roto i tērā āhuatanga, me ngā mea i kōrerohia ake nei ēngari, ko au tēnei kei te kī atu, ē, ko Te Reo Māori kua mana nā runga i te āhuatanga o āu mahi i ngā tau kua hipa ake. Tēnā koe, tēnā koe—kia ora tātau katoa, he wai!

[I acknowledge you, Mr Speaker of the House of Parliament, and indeed all of you, my colleagues in it. In paying a tribute to you, Mary, I turn to my Māori language. I address you in this manner because you are the one who opened up the way to enable me, Māori, to place these kinds of statements before Parliament standing here.

When I arrived in this House here, hello, there was a person sitting beside the Speaker there. His job was to interpret contributions in Māori, but the House remained bored because when I made my address in the Māori language and waited for an analysis of my Māori language, the House was totally bored because it took a long time. But on the other hand, the Māori Party issued a statement that our language in the House must be empowered, and you played a pivotal role in opening the door that enabled me to stand up to acknowledge that person and that one, and to speak in the language of the parents and forefathers. And that got me thinking how fitting it would be to acknowledge you in the Māori language and, furthermore, the work that you did in the years past, and here is the embodiment of that part of your role.

So here is an appreciation from the heart of the Māori Party; not just from me and my sister colleague here, Mārama, but also from Sir Pita Sharples and Dame Tariana Tūria, who were here as well, under the cloak of the Māori Party. It was you who provided advice to those two and indeed to all of us when we arrived here in the House of Parliament; you collectively and David, the one who left and David, your colleague sitting there beside you now, who will take over from you.

An aspect of you I have observed in my years here in the House is the ease you portray when settling issues. There are no outbursts of anger, nothing is a difficulty; you are a person at ease conversationally, physically, and spiritually. What an admirable trait that is. Being a woman is merely being that! What is more, people like you in Māoridom are regarded as genuine experts. This word “tohunga”, according to a majority view, is for men who are recognised as experts in their field because of their profound understanding. I, Te Ururoa, lived in fear of the book called Speakers’ Rulings and the Standing Orders of the House of Representatives. If there was a problem, I would go directly to you, your role being to help us.

Therefore my tributes to you are endless, in that you will embark on your journey knowing full well and at the same time also that the Māori Language today is being spoken in the Parliament of New Zealand, and that you were involved in that phenomenon, and the things that I alluded to—yes, indeed. But I say to you that the Māori language has been empowered because of your deeds in the past years. Thank you, thank you—and to us all, let us have a song.]

Waiata

Kāti ake! Waiho mā tērā waiata koe e kawe ki ngā tōpito katoa o te motu, ā, kia hoki mai ki te wā kāinga kua mōhio koe, ā, e tika ana tērā waiata mōu, mā wai rā te marae e taurima?

[Enough! Let that song take you to every extremity of the country, and when you come back home you will understand that song sung for you, who indeed will tend to the marae.]

Who will look after the marae? It will be truth; it will be honesty; it will be integrity; and, above all, it will be love for one another. Haere i tō haere, e Mere [Go forth on your journey, Mary.]

I want to share the sentiments expressed by others in tribute to Mary for all that she has achieved as our Clerk over the last 8 years, and the 20-odd years beforehand that she was a servant of this Parliament. I have often thought that there are a couple of essential attributes that a good Clerk requires. One is an absolute poker-face—to be able to listen to all of the debates in this Chamber, absorb their content so that the Speaker can be advised to make appropriate rulings, but never, ever betray a hint of prejudice or interest one way or the other in the course that the debate is taking. Mary, over the years you have proved to be absolutely inscrutable in that regard, and I think it is a tribute to your professionalism, your impartiality, and your skill that at a time when passions have mounted greatly in this House you have been often the one calm voice of order amongst us, so thank you for that.

I think that the second attribute that a Clerk needs to possess is an extraordinary ability to assess the situation and to offer advice to the individual member, either privately or through the Chamber, seeking assistance on a particular point, again without ever revealing how stupid, trivial, extreme, or otherwise you think the question that you are being asked may be. I think all members would feel that you have provided advice that has been professional, that has been thorough, and that has often saved MPs from themselves in particular situations, and, again, for that we are grateful.

But I think you have demonstrated a third skill as well. It is fashionable outside this place these days to try to reduce the traditions and the history and the flavour of Parliament to being somewhat of a fiction. We have seen a succession of occasions over the years where external influences—philistines, in the main—have tried to treat Parliament as just another Government agency or just the same as a large corporate. Often it has been the Clerk, in particular Mary, who has stood against that degree of barbarism that has intruded into this place to try to uphold the good and proper traditions of a free and democratic Parliament, to try to say that there are issues that MPs need to be steadfast on, even if they may feel a little bit ambivalent themselves about doing so. I think your guidance, your determination, and your absolute commitment and love for this place have shone through on each of those occasions.

So we will inevitably be the poorer for your departure, and it is little solace to us, as we slave through the Order Paper, to know that you will be on a cycling holiday in Italy or fishing in the Ōtaki Forks. That is great for you and I am delighted that is the case, but Parliament will seriously miss your wisdom.

💬 Hon Member: Jealous?

I am a little jealous, actually, yes. We will seriously miss your wisdom, your guidance, your input, and your steadfast hand quietly on the tiller of State. Having said that, can I say to David, like we probably said a few years ago when Mary succeeded, that you have big shoes to fill. We have every confidence in your ability to do so, but I am sure that only an email or a telephone call away will be some guidance and some assistance if you need it as you transition into the role.

Can I just conclude by making this observation: over the years this Parliament has been extraordinarily well served by its officers. I think often we take them for granted. Today is an occasion to pay tribute to one of our best. Mary, all the very best for your future. I hesitate to use the word “retirement”, because I am sure it will not be that. You have friends here who will continue to show an interest in what you are up to, love to hear from you, and look forward to whatever the next turn in your extraordinarily varied and interesting life may be.

On behalf not only of myself but of all ACT members who have served here with Mary, I would like to pass on our admiration and gratitude for Mary’s relentless professionalism and, most important, wish her very, very successful fishing. Thank you.

I can assure Mary that we are nearly there, and her legendary poker-face will be able to relax in just a moment. It falls to me on behalf of the Opposition whips, those who have served on the Business Committee, the Standing Orders Committee, and all of the other committees around the House that make this place tick over to thank Mary for her years of service to the House. During that time, as has already been mentioned, there have been significant changes, and Mary has often been one of the advocates for the change and the modernisation of Parliament: the greater role of the Business Committee, the introduction of extended sittings to reduce the unnecessary use of urgency, a more themed and structured approach to the way we deal with annual reviews and estimates debates—all of those things are areas where Mary has been at the forefront of advocating for change whilst also ensuring that the traditions of the House have been appropriately upheld.

Mary has been a staunch advocate for the rights of members of Parliament, even when that has not necessarily been popular. There is always a tension in the House between efficiency and the rights of the minority to be heard. I think Mary treads very carefully down that fine line to ensure that the House operates as efficiently as possible whilst also ensuring that the very important work that we do here is respected.

Mary is one of the first people I heard argue that by design Parliament is inefficient and that that is the way it should be, because that is, in fact, the nature of the democratic process. Mary, we have respected your impartiality, the even-handed way in which you have dealt with all members on both sides of the House.

I did contemplate what the most appropriate way to end this contribution would be. I thought maybe I could use a visual aid. I thought I could seek some advice from the Clerk on whether, in fact, a visual aid would be appropriate, but then I decided that that would not be so good. I thought maybe I could seek some advice on whether, in fact, I could table it, but I also decided that that would not be appropriate. So, instead, we simply present these flowers to you, Mary, on behalf of the Opposition, to say thank you for your years of service. You have well and truly earned a break and an opportunity to smell the roses. Thank you.

I want to make a few comments as Leader of the House, and unlike the general comments that have been made in the House this afternoon, which I agree with, I want to make those comments on a more personal level. I think the working relationship between the Leader of the House and the Clerk is probably similar to, if slightly less than, the relationship between the Speaker and the Clerk. I have appreciated the Monday morning meetings, Mary, where you have given us gentle guidance on what the Government was hoping to achieve in any particular week. You will see that there is no poker-face there at the moment. That is largely because we on this side of the House have a lot of bright ideas that need to be contained. But one of the things about your term as Clerk, which I think cannot be stated enough, is the way in which you have quite quietly but very firmly protected the privilege of Parliament.

I think the privilege of Parliament is a concept that is often misunderstood. People seem to think that it is about how often you travel, what sort of arrangements you get for your accommodation, etc.—all those peripheral things to the work—when, in fact, it is about the protection that is provided to members of Parliament so that they can go about their representational work in the strongest way possible. There will always be those who want to pare that back. Over the last few years, there have been a number of occasions when the Privileges Committee has had to look at very difficult issues, and your guidance through that process—and the guidance of your office—has been very, very helpful, and I think it indicates, too, that in the role of Clerk, you have seen yourself as part of a continuum. Others have talked about there being big shoes to fill at the time you took over, and they are saying the same things to David, but the reality is that there was a seamless transition between yourself and the previous Clerk. And I hope that you will have left the office in a state that means that the same will occur this time round, and that will be a great tribute to you.

Can I just note that you were the Clerk who enabled the filming of Parliament. These cameras were not in here at the start of your tenure. That has been successful. Te Ururoa spoke about the translation service. That has been successful. Others have talked about procedural changes that have occurred during your time. So you have a very significant legacy that you have left us, but, above all, what you have left us with is a strong sense of the obligation that we all have to represent, as best we can, the people who sent us here. For that we thank you, and we wish you all the best in your retirement and in all the endeavours that have been spoken of so far, and in the many others that I am sure are to come over the years. Thank you.

Honourable members, I thank you all for those contributions. For me, this is a sad motion, for two reasons. One is obvious: Mary, I have treasured your counsel and your sage advice, and I will miss it. The second reason is that because of your physical position in this House throughout this motion, I have not been able to watch those facial expressions on that poker-face. Was it a display of frustration at the fuss that is being made, or was it a display of pride and a sense of achievement for what you have done for our democracy?

For your information, Mary, your personal assistant, Andie Lindsay, was aware of this motion today. She did not advise you of it, and she told me just before question time that she expects a very severe rebuking—and, in fact, she asked me personally to her funeral next week. But more seriously, Mary, you are a private person, you do not seek any prominence whatsoever, and you would have hoped that your retirement would pass through this House almost unnoticed. There was absolutely no chance of that. You go with our best wishes, and we thank you for your services to the democracy of New Zealand. [Applause] Members, you beat me to it.

Motion agreed to.

My question is to the Minister of Health. How much has been spent by the Government on the Social Bonds Pilot to date?

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would just like to point out that the question on the Order Paper says “How much has been spent by the Government on the Social Bonds Programme to date?”, so that is actually inviting a very different answer to the one that you just asked.

I am going to invite the member to ask the question again. [Interruption] Order! The member will repeat question No. 1.