Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill

A member is going to make his speech. I ask that members give him some courtesy. There is a lot of noise and a lot of movement.

I move, That the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to consider the bill. It is with great pleasure that I rise to speak to a bill that was drawn on my first regular sitting day as a new MP, and I look forward to many more bills being drawn in my name before the year is out. This bill, the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill, corrects an anomaly that occurs roughly twice every 7 years. When this glitch happens, New Zealanders miss out on the usual full complement of 11 public holidays. All 11 public holidays are listed in the Holidays Act, but only two are missed out when it comes to ensuring a corresponding day off with the family. Those days are Waitangi Day and Anzac Day. Most years Waitangi Day and Anzac Day commemorations are deemed to warrant an additional day of rest and recreation, but, on the odd year, usually when they fall on the weekend, this is not the case. The commemoration occurs, but under current law no additional day of rest and recreation is granted.

The issue of missed public holidays came into sharp focus last year when hard-working Kiwis got only nine of their 11 public holidays. In 2010 both Waitangi Day and Anzac Day fell on a weekend. Hard-working Kiwis were not happy. Before I proceed further I wish to place on record my thanks to the astute member Grant Robertson, who immediately set about drafting a bill that would correct this situation. It is that same bill that Grant Robertson drafted that I inherited when I arrived in this House, and it is this bill that I am proud to champion, because it is a good bill and because it is the right thing to do.

New Zealanders work amongst the longest hours in the OECD. This bill alone will not fix that, but it is a step in the right direction. Having 11 holidays guaranteed every year allows people to plan time together as a family, and employees up and down the country value every opportunity they can get to spend time with their families. Employers I have spoken to value this too, actually. They too want to be able to know with some certainty that their family members can plan to take days off that coincide with their own days off. Mondayising Waitangi Day and Anzac Day not only provides more time to spend with the kids and grandkids, but it gives these days the full recognition that other public holidays have. It recognises the growing significance of Anzac to our growing national sense of history and identity, and it makes forward planning simpler. Having carried responsibility for employing staff in the past, I know that employers make provision for public holidays. Under current law it is only in those odd years when these holidays fall out that employers have to adjust their provisions.

I want to thank members across the House for their indications of support for the first reading of this bill: honourable members Peter Dunne, Hone Harawira, the Māori Party, the Green Party, and of course my Labour colleagues. Further expressions of support will, of course, be welcomed at any time. One important thing to note early in the debate is that this initiative does not carry a huge cost. The Minister of Labour asked for estimates of costs from her department and it provided estimates that would suggest that this bill could cost 13c per worker per day. I want to challenge these figures that the Prime Minister relied upon in his initial public comment on this bill. I believe the Prime Minister has not been well served with this advice. I think this is an important point, because the Labour Party is a responsible party, and accepts that cost to employers is one factor that needs to be taken into account when deciding whether or not something like this is a good idea.

Information released to me under the Official Information Act shows that officials have focused on counting the costs of the legislative change without considering the offsetting benefits. Their calculations were incomplete, and it is very unfortunate that the Prime Minister was reliant upon them when he made his original cautious responses to my bill. To be fair to the Prime Minister, he did not rule out supporting the bill at that stage, but instead requested further information, and well he might. The calculations he relied upon fail to account for a range of ameliorating factors. Employment and hours worked by self-employed people, who are not even subject to the Holidays Act, are included in his calculations, and productivity gains from the benefits of having rested workers are not, and extra benefits from increased domestic tourism are not counted either. That is like counting the downsides of a mortgage without recognising the fact that you own a house. As well, no account has been taken in the 13c cost estimate of the fact that employers can make changes to the way they operate their businesses and who works on which days, further reducing costs. The Government papers I have seen also note more than once that the cost calculations provided are likely to be overstated. Furthermore, email traffic preceding official advice to the Minister acknowledges the likelihood of benefits to the economy but proposes investigating no further lest the results be ambiguous. Without wanting to cast doubt on the impartial advice provided by officials, this does seem a lot like cherry picking.

Given that the bill is plain common sense, I hope National members will take the time to work through the full calculation, and realise that even their 13c calculation is grossly overstated. The full calculation reveals that the cost is negligible. Even working with the estimate of 13c, employer’s advocate John Walley was forced to admit that he was being a Grinch in speaking against this bill. But we now know that 13 cents is an overstatement. It is even possible that once domestic tourism and the increased productivity of rested workers are properly taken into account this bill may have a net positive effect on our economy.

Regardless of all of that, National must not stand in the way of hard-working Kiwis’ entitlement to 11 statutory days off each and every year. I have been delighted with the general public’s overwhelmingly positive response to this bill. Every major newspaper and many regional newspapers in New Zealand have carried editorials welcoming the legislation.

💬 Hon Ruth Dyson: Even the ODT.

Including the Otago Daily Times. I think we have established that the bill will be good for hard-working Kiwis and their families, and that there is not really a significant downside to this. But we may ask ourselves whether anything else will change when Waitangi Day and Anzac Day are Mondayised. For starters, the day of celebration will not change. Waitangi Day will still be celebrated on 6 February each year, and Anzac Day will still be celebrated on 25 April. I have received much support since my bill was drawn, and also a few letters expressing concern that the day might be changed. I am very pleased to put on record that it will not. The proposition that is put forward in this bill is the same as that which operates in respect of Christmas and New Year’s Day. Christmas is still celebrated on 25 December each year, even when it falls on a weekend. The only difference is that Kiwis know that they can count on a holiday being added on after Boxing Day. Likewise, when New Year’s Day falls on a weekend, revellers do not hold off their celebrations. Instead, they count on a subsequent and additional day of recreation.

Australians do this already, and it works for them. Reports suggest they are observing a trend of growing attendances at dawn services. Like it is here, Anzac Day is also important to Australians’ sense of history and identity. Seven out of eight Australian jurisdictions Mondayise Anzac Day, and their equivalent of Waitangi Day, Australia Day, enjoys similar support. The Mondayisation of Anzac Day enjoys widespread support in Australia, because it honours the sacrifice of our forebears and the freedoms for which they fought. I note that the Government requested advice from officials on the prevalence of Mondayisation for holidays in Australia and the United Kingdom, and has been advised that public holidays are usually Mondayised in both jurisdictions. It is what we usually do here, and it makes sense.

Thank you to the member opposite, Labour MP Mr David Clark, for bringing the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill before the House, and for his speech, which I think set out a lot of the arguments that would be for having the Mondayisation, in the sense that it has been proposed by this member’s bill. There is a lot of sympathy for the arguments that have been noted by that member. Many people in this Parliament will understand the importance of holidays to our people who are working in professions and jobs. A holiday is a very important part of their life and their ability to do their work.

However, when we look at this legislation, we need to be practical about its implications, and look at when it will actually be effective. The next time that both holidays fall on a weekend is 2021. So it is some number of years before the situation arises that has been considered in the past. If we look at Waitangi Day alone, 2016 is the next year when it will arise in that situation, and Anzac Day in 2015. So when we talk in regard to this bill, we are not talking about 11 paid holidays as such. We are talking about two days in 2021, and that is quite some distance away. I think, and the National Party believes, that we can do a lot to help our employees and workers in the meantime to assist them to have a stronger future in this country, and this bill at this stage is not integral to achieving that for those days.

The other argument around this bill is in regard to the significance of both Anzac Day and Waitangi Day. Both of those days are very important historically, culturally, and also for the spirit of our people and our country. The special significance of those days means that we would prefer to remember them and honour those days in their traditional format rather than see them Mondayised. There have been a number of quotes from Labour MPs over many years indicating also that they would not seek to have a Mondayisation of those days. But in essence the two real arguments that we face here are, firstly, the actual implications of this bill, which would be 2 days in 2021, 1 in 2016, and 1 in 2015, which means that there are other ways that we can achieve those better circumstances for our workers. Secondly, the very significance of those very important days means that National is unable to support this bill at this stage.

It is a great pleasure to speak in support of the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I want to congratulate my colleague Dr David Clark, who has made an excellent beginning to his time as an MP, and I think it augurs very well that this bill was drawn out of the ballot on his first full sitting day. I also want to acknowledge Grant Robertson, who drafted the bill when this issue became predominant in the media last year, when people realised that they were not going to get 11 statutory holidays last year and also that, actually, in Australia they do. It is very nice, also, to be debating this bill, which will actually provide some benefits to working people.

💬 Hon Ruth Dyson: We could catch Australia.

We could catch up with Australia, actually—that is one way of catching up with Australia. We are missing out on everything else, but we could do this. That is a very good reason to vote for this bill.

But also a very good reason to vote for this bill is to provide rest and recreation for workers and families, and support communities and, actually, businesses, as we have heard in the arguments from Dr Clark. It is a very simple and fair proposition. It will happen only once every 7 years. Rather than being a reason to vote against it, as the National member who spoke said—and, may I say, I am very disappointed that the National Government is not supporting this; I am very disappointed in that—it is a reason to do something, because, after all, workers are not having such a great time under this Government. It would have been a gesture—just a little, tiny gesture—of kindness, particularly because National is not going to be in Government next time it comes around anyway. I would have thought that National members could be generous enough to support this—to have a look at it in the select committee, which is, after all, the process. Just because the bill goes through the first reading does not mean that it is finalised. It has to go to select committee.

I wanted to address the issue, also, that the member David Bennett raised about observing Waitangi Day and Anzac Day, and the importance of doing that. I agree with that. We all on this side of the House absolutely agree that those are two very important days. We all have seen the rise in respect for observing Anzac Day among younger generations and older generations. Waitangi Day now has become a day when we all celebrate our nation’s history and the partnership that we have with Māori. But under this bill, that will not change. Nothing will change. Those days will still be observed: Anzac Day on 25 April and Waitangi Day on 6 February every year. They will still be observed. The only thing that will be different is where they fall on a Saturday or Sunday; they will still be observed on those days but instead of missing out on a statutory holiday like people do once every 7 years, they actually get to have a day off on the Monday. It works, as Dr Clark has pointed out, like it does with Christmas Day and some other public holidays like Boxing Day, New Year’s Day, etc.

Some time ago the Labour Government actually brought in provisions so that where people had to work on Christmas Day, where it fell on a Saturday or Sunday, they could actually have the day off on the Monday. It works in the same way. It actually means that people still get those holidays over Christmas and New Year, and under this bill they will get 11 holidays every year, which is what New Zealanders are guaranteed under our Holidays Act and have the right to expect. This bill is very fair. [Bell rung] This bill is very fair—[Interruption] Sorry, Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch; I have still got a minute.

💬 Chris Hipkins: Yes, you have.

OK, I have still got a minute. Sorry about that.

💬 Hon Members: She sat down.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order!

💬 Hon Ruth Dyson: She’s allowed to sit down.

The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order! Just in the future, if the member sits, that is the end of the speech. You have got 40 seconds left.

Thank you very much, Mr Assistant Speaker. As I was saying, this is an extremely fair bill. I do not understand why National members cannot support it to the select—

💬 Hon Annette King: Having a bad night over there.

Yes. I do not understand why National members cannot support it to the select committee. This would be something very positive that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee could be looking at for a change, instead of the dreadful things we have got ahead of us this year under this Government—the plans of all of the attacks on workers that it intends to bring to our select committee. Would it not be nice to be actually considering something positive, something good, something that is not going to cost very much at all, and something that will not happen for 7 years—when that party will be well out of Government?

I am happy to stand and speak in opposition to this bill, the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I am happy to stand and speak in opposition to this bill because the National Party knows that there are hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders out there who care very much about Waitangi Day and who care very much about Anzac Day. They care about the importance of those days to this nation. They do not see those days just as holidays. They see those days as being important days to recognise the people who have gone before in this country, to recognise the founders of this country who put together the Treaty of Waitangi to allow New Zealand to be the country that it is today, and to recognise the people who went to war for New Zealanders to have freedoms that we exercise every day in this nation. We as the National Party believe that that is the importance of those days. It is about recognising why we have those days, not viewing them just as holidays.

I think it is fair to say that we do have a very generous number of holidays in New Zealand. We have a generous number of holidays in New Zealand. Some people think that these two holidays, which we care so much about in this country, should be Mondayised, which would, one, come at quite a cost to the country whenever they come around, and, two, reduce the meaning of the days by treating them as just normal holidays. I think a bill that does that is a disgrace and should be opposed.

I want to talk a bit more about the cost there would be for the country should this bill go ahead. The Department of Labour has calculated that every time there is a holiday that is Mondayised there is an economic cost to the country of roughly $200 million. What we are hearing from members on the other side is that they do not care whether there is an extra $200 million worth of cost put on New Zealand businesses. We know that they do not support our economic growth programme. We know that they do not support our labour market reforms, which will actually create more jobs. We know that they did not support our 90-day trial, which created 13,000 new jobs. And one of the reasons why we are seeing more jobs being created is that we are seeing less cost put on to businesses. We are seeing less red tape. We are seeing less regulation being put on businesses. An extra $200 million is not to be laughed at—it is an extra $200 million cost to the economy.

This bill should be opposed for some very good reasons. We as New Zealanders care about Waitangi Day. We as New Zealanders believe that the people who went to war to give us freedoms in this country should be respected and not have their day trampled on by the Mondayisation that this bill would bring about. And we believe we should be keeping costs off businesses, and $200 million every time these days are Mondayised is $200 million too much. The National Party takes pride in opposing this bill, for the reasons I have outlined tonight.

It is my pleasure to rise to support the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I find it quite ironic that we are having this bill before the House in the darkest time of the year and the time of Matariki—a time when it would be lovely to have more holidays, actually. That period from the Queen’s Birthday weekend in June until Labour Day weekend is one of the longest and the hardest roads that workers ever have to face, so it is quite a good idea to have this discussion about holidays and when we should have them. We fully support the Mondayisation of Anzac Day and Waitangi Day. We have heard the arguments against it, and we fully support the ones for it that have come forward—from the Labour Party particularly—because it is about returning some family time to working families.

What we are seeing at the moment in New Zealand is a real attack on families. We are seeing it on low-paid workers, as well. We are seeing people working harder than they ever have before, just to make ends meet. We are hearing stories of service workers, union members, cleaners, caretakers, shopworkers, and security guards who are working 70 to 80 hours a week, just to pay their way. These workers are struggling to make ends meet—they really are. And these are the workers who are actually doing the jobs and working on Anzac Day and working on Waitangi Day, so they really should be given a day off when those days fall on a weekend, because otherwise they do not get to have them at all. And it goes for all of us, actually.

We are not going to have a situation where we cannot attend a dawn parade on 25 April. We are not going to have a situation where we cannot attend Waitangi celebrations on 6 February. That is not going to happen. Those days are sacrosanct. We still celebrate Christmas on 25 December, despite the fact that if it falls on a weekend we get the day off on the Monday or the Tuesday after Boxing Day. We get only 11 public holidays a year—11 public holidays a year—and workers get only 4 weeks’ paid leave per year. If you add that all up, that is not a lot of time that is given to workers to rest. And, as I said before, you will find many workers are actually struggling and working longer and longer hours and not resting.

We fully support the Service and Food Workers Union’s campaign for a living wage, and I am aware that some of my colleagues from the Labour side do as well. This is a call for more leeway: more ability for our citizens to participate in our communities, do their civic duties, and spend time with their families, and to not have to struggle so hard. Having a day off because the holidays fall on the weekend is not an unreasonable ask. We believe that it is not going to cost a lot. The next time it happens—and I think there have been speakers on both sides who have mentioned this—is not for years to come. The cost itself is reasonably minimal.

💬 Michael Woodhouse: What—$200 million?

No, your figures are wrong. They are wrong, because you have taken into account a whole bunch of things that should not have been counted in there, including self-employed people.

We will be supporting this bill; we will support it tonight. We would hope that it will go to a select committee, because it will be great to hear from workers, and employers as well, how they think this will play out. We will hear from the RSA and Waitangi Day groups what they think about this bill. I am pretty sure they are going to say it is not a problem. We are going to support it because workers deserve a break.

New Zealand First supports the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I wish, on behalf of New Zealand First MPs, to make these five points, although given the time I probably will not be able to make all of them tonight.

First of all, when the tradition of celebrating Waitangi Day and Anzac Day by holiday was first begun, Saturdays and Sundays were much less days of work for people. These days, however, very large numbers of people do work on both Saturdays and Sundays, simply because they have to these days if they are going to make a living. Saturdays and Sundays for those people are not holidays, and they tend to be the same as any other day of the week. So when Anzac Day or Waitangi Day falls on a Saturday or Sunday these people get no holiday at all, because there is no Mondayisation of those holidays, as we know. This is quite simply unfair to people who always work on weekends, and that can be corrected only by having a substitute holiday on the following Monday.

I would have to say, having listened to speakers from the other side of the House, that National’s attitude to this issue is quite simply just mean—just mean. I believe National members should seriously reconsider this whole issue, because that is the way huge numbers of people in this country are going to see them for this particular attitude.

Secondly, there needs to be an opportunity for people who work on Saturdays and Sundays to actually observe Anzac Day and Waitangi Day on the following Monday in their own way. Obviously, if they have to work on a Saturday or Sunday, and Anzac Day or Waitangi Day falls on one of those days, then they have no opportunity at all in real terms to actually observe those very special days.

Debate interrupted.

The House adjourned at 10 p.m.