Estimates Debate — Vote Justice (continued)

I have had to wait for close to 18 hours to respond to those sad characters opposite. I think we heard from Mr Power and from the member from Wanganui—no, it was Mr Worth. They all look very similar, actually. What a sad place the National Party caucus must be! Those members are all so miserable. Every word that came from those two members was a litany of misery. I have to say that if we ever want a study in breathtaking irony, we need only look to Mr Worth.

We listened to what Mr Worth had to say and to his criticism of, of all things, the legal aid system and this Government’s performance with it. I have to say that the criticism was, in essence, that access to justice for all is absolutely critical, and we stood criticised by Mr Worth because we have not yet reported on a process, in which the legal profession is directly involved, of reviewing the remuneration for legal practitioners because the work is still being done. We were criticised because a thorough process, which that the Law Society is intimately involved in and is part of, is not complete and we have not reported on it.

We have committed tens of millions of dollars as a first priority to increase the eligibility of low and modest income New Zealanders, because that was this Government’s first priority, and for that I make no apology. It may be that the order of priority is different for those Tories on the Opposition benches, but for this Government the first priority was to address those low and modest income New Zealanders who for more than 20 years had seen no increase in the rate of eligibility. Dr Worth suggests that the National Party is in some way concerned about access to justice for all, but for 9 years in the 1990s it did nothing to lift the eligibility levels for low and modest income New Zealanders. It did not a thing. Further, I ask Mr Finlayson what the National Party did for lawyers in those 9 years. What did it do to address the remuneration rates for lawyers? Did it adjust the rates during those 9 long years? Well, to be fair, yes it did—once. Once during 9 years the National Party adjusted the rates. Do members know what it did? It put the rates down.

💬 Chris Auchinvole: Tell us what you have done.

This Government has lifted the eligibility for 450,000 low and modest income New Zealanders. That member, for once, should stop shouting and just occasionally listen. [Interruption] The member seems not to understand. The legal aid system is, first and foremost, about those who need legal aid. More than 400,000 additional New Zealanders have eligibility. The work is being done with the legal profession. I have to say—

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): Please be seated. Can I just say to the member that constant barracking is not acceptable. The member is really going over the top. I ask him to desist.

I put this question to members of the House and to any New Zealanders listening. If the first—

💬 Christopher Finlayson: It’s the Committee.

The Committee of the whole House is in the House, I say to Mr Finlayson. This is still the House. I am sorry; I know that the member is new and I guess we can forgive him.

I simply ask anyone who is listening, and certainly any member in the Chamber, whether the first priority should be a low-income New Zealander who is on $9 an hour or a lawyer who is on $150 to $500 an hour. That is the question that any responsible Government was confronted with. I make no apology for putting low and modest income New Zealanders as this Government’s first priority.

The other extraordinary contribution was from Mr Power, who for some reason has a problem with the idea that the Law Commission is busy getting about business and is doing work, and with the fact that this Government then gets on and does some work and deals with the reports that the commission gives to this House. I know it was the habit during 9 long years of National to pretty much ignore such reports. This Government is getting on and doing the work.

Mr Power then went on to say that the Ministry of Justice is doing nothing. What absolute nonsense! I can assume only that that member simply does not do his paperwork and does not attend to the business that he should as a diligent Opposition MP. I suggest to him that he pay a little more attention to what is going on. The list of work is extraordinarily long. The Ministry of Justice has never been busier. It is working on a wide range of projects. I suggest to Mr Power that he spend a little more time doing the work and a little less time simply sitting on his backside and not doing the job that he is paid to do.

It is a pleasure to stand and speak after the hard-working Minister of Justice, and I would like to put it on the record that this Government is indeed investing heavily into justice. How do I know this? I know this because of the amount of work that comes before the very hard-working Justice and Electoral Committee.

This Government is putting its money where its mouth is. It is investing heavily into justice in this country because we know that investing into justice, and into the programmes in the justice sector, gets the results. If we look at the appropriation, which is what this debate is about, then we see that the over $200 million that has already been spent on justice has been increased by another $30 million in this appropriation. That is very much a worthwhile investment. I know that much of that investment will be going into ensuring the effectiveness of the Criminal Justice Reform Bill.

I was disappointed, as was the previous speaker, the Minister of Justice, to hear criticism about the legislation from members on the other side of the Committee last night. We believe this legislation will be a major initiative for this country, and certainly we were very disappointed to see the National Party opposing the establishment of the Sentencing Council. We know that it will produce real consistency and fairness throughout the country and will be a council that all New Zealanders will have confidence in.

I also acknowledge, as I have in earlier speeches, the Law Commission, because I know that this bill and many of the bills that have come before our committee have resulted from the very good work the Law Commission does. I will also talk about legal aid because I heard Dr Worth banging on, as he always does, about legal aid. It is really interesting because when the Minister came to the committee, he reminded us that remuneration rates for legal aid are under review currently. Well, under the previous National Government, legal aid rates were reviewed and they were actually cut. They were cut. Those rates were cut under a National Government, so it is a little bit rich for those members now to be banging on about how badly reimbursed and remunerated legal services providers are. We look forward to that review and, I am sure, along with everyone in the Committee we will be looking at that one with interest.

I also heard Dr Worth criticising the Government’s position on electoral reform. Dr Worth was not at the committee, but the Minister assured us that electoral legislation would be coming before the committee in the near future. We are very confident, with our hard-working committee, that that legislation will be in place for the next election. In fact, the Justice and Electoral Committee secured a select committee trip to Australia on the basis that we would be looking at electoral issues over there. I will not ponder too much on that; the legislation will come before the committee and the legislation will be in place for the next election. It is as simple as that.

The sexual violence task force is another big investment for this Government. The task force was formally established on 1 July—this month—so that is fantastic. I know that nine Government agencies will be working together on that, as will many agencies from the non-government sector, and we know that that move is good. Also, in the area of restorative justice we are working on continuing to increase access to restorative justice. Again, we believe that is very much a good investment for this Government. A centre will be opened at the Auckland University of Technology to further academic research into restorative justice. We know that this is a good investment being made by this Government.

Vote agreed to.

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