Points of Order — Question Time—Withdrawal of Members

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. At the outset I make it clear that I am not trying to relitigate a matter that has already been the subject of a ruling from the presiding officer.

There was an exchange in the House earlier this afternoon, at question time. The Speaker asked a couple of my colleagues to leave the Chamber, and there was some debate. As a consequence, I have gone back and listened to the tape of proceedings. In a nutshell, what happened was that after the Speaker heard a point of order from Mr Brownlee, I raised a point of order to make the Speaker aware of the fact that a Minister on the Government side of the House had interjected twice during Mr Brownlee’s point of order. The Speaker said that all members who had interjected should leave the Chamber, and the Minister duly did. The Speaker then invited members on the Opposition side of the House to leave the Chamber if they had interjected. There was some discussion as to whether members on this side should leave; none did.

There are two problems that I wish to raise. The first is the suggestion that members on the Opposition side of the Chamber had interjected during a point of order from Mr Brownlee. I now know from seeing the tape that that suggestion is incorrect. The Speaker, obviously, was at fault with her recollection, and she did not recall those events correctly. I have now satisfied myself of this upon hearing the tape. That is a relatively minor matter. But the impression would have been left amongst the people who were listening that some members of the Opposition may have been sufficiently dishonourable, after having been asked as a matter of honesty to own up to interjecting, to have not left the House when the Speaker had requested them to do so.

It is quite clear to me that the reason that no members on this side left the House when asked to do so by the Speaker was that no member had offended. It is very clear that no members on the Opposition side of the Chamber raised their voices until after Mr Brownlee had sat down upon finishing his point of order. No interruption was made by members on the Opposition side of the House to that point of order, and no offence had occurred.

With that being the case, we are left with a situation where the Speaker has given the impression that some members of the Opposition may have behaved dishonourably, and the Speaker has given that impression on the basis of a faulty recollection of events. I take strong offence at that impression being left by the Speaker. I believe that the Speaker owes all members on the Opposition side of the House an abject apology, and I seek that apology from the Chair now.

The problem with that point of order is that it is not possible to discern by listening to the tape whether an intervention or interjection was made while Mr Brownlee was on his feet. This is not a television monitoring office at some sort of rugby league game or rugby game. The point of order sounds fair and logical until one comes to the probative value of the evidence that Mr McCully has sought to hear. He said that he did not see it, but I am sure he meant that he did not hear any interjection. Unfortunately, the tape of Parliament would not disclose that. Anybody who has been here for a while would understand that to be the case.

💬 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank the member for his assistance.

As well as concurring with the point just made by the Rt Hon Winston Peters, I would also make the point that my understanding was that the matter was left at a point where it was accepted that there had not been any dishonourable intent to deceive. I understood that the point had been made that perhaps it was an inadvertent—

💬 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank the member for his assistance.

There is a longstanding tradition in this Chamber that if a member takes offence, then usually an apology is required of the person who has caused offence. In this case, I have a very clear recollection of events. I am relying not just on the tape but also on my own recollection. I disputed this matter with the Speaker at the time, and it is quite clear that my recollection is correct. The Speaker’s recollection of events was wrong. No intervention was made until after Mr Brownlee’s point of order had finished. I want to make it clear that I take offence at the comments made by the Speaker. I feel I am owed an apology, and I believe that every member on the Opposition side of the House is owed an apology.

💬 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank the member for raising that point of order. It was actually out of order in that I think, in some way, the member was criticising the Speaker. The matter was dealt with at the time, and that really is the end of the matter as far as dealing with that issue goes.

The member has said that the impression may have been created that there was some dishonesty on the part of members on the Opposition side of the House. That is why I let him continue with his point. It was so that the member had the opportunity to clear up that impression that may have been created—assuming that the same people are listening at this hour as were listening at the other hour.

So I thank the member for raising the matter, but it was dealt with by the Speaker. If the member wants to take it further, it is a matter for a notice of motion.

I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This matter is viewed very seriously by members on the Opposition side of the House. Matters of impartiality on the part of the Speaker, and on the part of every presiding officer in this House, are taken extremely seriously, particularly in the climate we find ourselves in at the present time. I would ask for the Speaker to give reflection to this matter and to consider giving a written ruling on the matter. Specifically in relation to that written ruling, I would request that consideration be given for an apology to be made to those members who have every right to take offence at the impression left by the Speaker this afternoon.

💬 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have suggested to the member that it is a matter for a notice of motion from the member.

I am happy to oblige.

💬 Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank the member for raising the matter. We will move on.