Personal Explanations — Allegations—Inquiry

I believe false allegations were made last week by a member in this House, which prompted me to make a personal explanation. As I understand it, yesterday, in my absence, further allegations were made in relation to an inquiry that everybody in this House is aware of. I want to make it quite clear that those allegations are again absolutely false. I am concerned that members can come into this House and promulgate lies under the guise of supplementary questions, when, in fact, oral questions—

💬 Madam SPEAKER: The member knows he cannot make the allegation of lying. Would the member please retract that statement.

TAITO PHILLIP FIELD:—at least have to be authenticated and have some semblance of the truth.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Would the member please do what I directed him to do. Would he please withdraw and make an apology for that remark.

I withdraw and apologise. But I take great exception to people in this House who come and make statements for the benefit of getting media coverage, when in fact there is no evidence for or authenticity to those statements. I invite that member, if he has any spine and any guts, to take his allegations outside the House.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Would the member please be seated. Personal statements are to relate to the matters of the member; they are not to be used to make charges against other members. They are to be confined to that matter only—[Interruption] Would the members who interrupted during that personal statement please leave the Chamber.

Hon David Carter withdrew from the Chamber.

John Key withdrew from the Chamber.

💬 Darren Hughes: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You asked the members who interjected on Taito Phillip Field to leave the Chamber. Nick Smith clearly interjected. He sat there with a smirk on his face when you instructed people to leave, and he continues to sit in the House right now.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: I heard the statement. I did not hear who made it, but it was very clear. I have to rely upon members to take responsibility in those matters, and members did. As far as I am concerned, that is the end of the matter.

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The difficulty you have occurs when a member who is making a personal explanation goes outside the Standing Orders and makes allegations. A large number of members on the Opposition side of the House raised noise at that point. If you were to require all of those who made any noise when Mr Taito Phillip Field was breaching the Standing Orders to leave, I suspect there would not be many members left in the House.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: I am sorry, but I say to the member that I did deal with the matter and I do not need any assistance. I was waiting until I could hear what the member was saying towards the end of his sentence. It was clearly wrong. As soon as he said the word “lies”, I intervened. So would members please desist from raising those points of order. I have ruled on this matter. I do not want to hear any more points of order, but I do want the member to complete his personal statement in accordance with the Standing Orders.

💬 Hon Bill English: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The ability to make a personal explanation to the House is a privilege, not a right. We know that, because the member has to seek the leave of the House, and of course the House would not—if it knew—give leave to a member who was going to go ahead and accuse the House of lying. But also, after you had told the member to come back to be within the Standing Orders, he then accused a member of lacking spine. I think you would be testing the will of the House to allow this member to continue to have a third go at his personal explanation, because by his actions today—whatever we think of the merits of what he wants to say—he has effectively given up the capacity to get the leave of this House to give any personal explanation in this session, again. We gave him leave, he abused it, and you have given him two chances. You are now about to give a third chance, and I think that is going too far.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: No, the member is in fact relitigating what I have said. I have decided that the member is to complete his explanation and to do it succinctly. I ask him to please complete his explanation.

💬 Hon Dr Michael Cullen: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I apologise for having to raise the matter again, but you did ask the members opposite who interjected on Mr Field to leave. Dr Smith certainly did interject, and in effect admitted he did. Actually, I was listening and heard very few people from the Opposition interject. He was clearly one of a small number who did.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Dr Smith, did you interject?

💬 Hon Dr Nick Smith: Yes.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Would you please leave the Chamber, then. I asked members to leave. I am sorry if I had not made myself clear. All members I asked to leave will be out, obviously, until the end of the session.

Hon Dr Nick Smith withdrew from the Chamber.

💬 Hon Maurice Williamson: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I do this just in the interests of getting this tidy. The member who is making the personal explanation, I think, breached the Standing Orders twice. The first time, he was pulled to a stop and you made him withdraw and apologise. But he went on to then infringe again, as you know, when he talked about a lack of courage by saying that a member was lacking in spine. Up to this point, you have not asked him to withdraw and apologise for that comment, and I think that if he is to be allowed to proceed, then he must do that first.

I withdraw and apologise.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Thank you.

I expect this House to treat me like any other member and take, on face value, my word. When a member makes a statement to this House, then that should be accepted—mine, like any other member in this House. I also want to say that if the member has any evidence in respect of the allegations he made yesterday, then he should table it.

💬 Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I raised this matter with you last week and I am raising it again now—I raised it yesterday, as well. You have an allegation being made by way of a supplementary question that is an allegation of criminal behaviour. Not one shred of evidence has been produced by Dr Lockwood Smith, in 2 weeks, but he keeps it up. I think, therefore, it behoves him, if he does not have any evidence, to get up here and apologise. He owes the member that action, instead of shrinking away from it without so much as a by your leave, having, in 2 weeks, made two very, very serious allegations. I am saying to you, Madam Speaker, that members are usually required to produce some evidence when they make allegations in this House, and that member is getting away with making allegations of a crime, which is a serious matter.

💬 Madam SPEAKER: Will the member please be seated. It is not a point of order. It is obviously a matter for Dr Smith to address himself.