Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I came down to the House only when this debate started as I had listened to the earlier debate in my office, where I was tied up. I listened to the closing speech made by the Hon Peter Dunne in the previous part. I have to say that I have a regard for the Hon Peter Dunne’s ability in this Parliament. On this bill, I share many of his sentiments and support his amendments, and I know that New Zealand First does also.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): What is the point of order?

The point of order is that either deliberately, or inadvertently, Mr Dunne referred to people as “health Nazis”. Where I come from, anybody who referred to anybody as a “Nazi” would be likely to get the thrashing of his or her life. I am asking the Chair whether that is an acceptable parliamentary term. I am not asking for an apology, because there is no one to apologise to. I am asking the Chair whether that is an acceptable term to refer to anybody by.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): It has not been deemed unparliamentary previously. Often these things are in the context of how they are said. The issue was not raised at the time, but I shall certainly consider what the member has said.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I take the point raised by the member. I feel strongly, as I am sure he does, about people who think they know best about the way in which other people should behave in this situation. As a subject of Her Majesty, I know that the member will be familiar with the cartoons of Carl Giles, the famous British cartoonist. Giles was well known for caricaturing people in that guise, yet he was also known for his virulent anti-fascist views. If the member has taken offence, I take his point, and will not make that reference again. However, I think it was more in the context of what is common parlance anyway in describing that particular group of beady-eyed zealots who think they know best.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. I strongly support Mr Peter Dunne’s right of free speech. While the Chair has said that, as a general rule, people should be careful when addressing people outside this House, the Chair has always upheld the rights of members of Parliament to have total free speech here. The answer to Mr Brown’s question is that for Peter Dunne it is a matter of taste. If Peter Dunne wants to refer to someone as a “Nazi”, provided he is not referring to an honourable member of this House, that is his absolute right, and that should be your ruling.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. It is distinctly possible that this bill will go through in the fullness of time. As a result of that, it is not impossible that the officials charged with policing the rules in the bill will be referred to as “health Nazis”. I do not think that we should give a lead with that sort of example.

💬 Dr Wayne Mapp: Rightly so.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): Points of order will be heard in silence.

I suggest that that term could be used by the public if we are using it freely in Parliament. It is a dreadful term and, as I said earlier on, if somebody called certain people by that term, he or she could well be up for the thrashing of their life. If that is an example of what we want to give a lead on, then you rule accordingly. I am prepared to call the Speaker back on this.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): First, it was after the time. I had allowed people to speak on that. As I said, it was in the context of how it was said. Mr Prebble made some good points, and I am prepared to leave the matter there.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson. Do I now understand that what you have said now constitutes a ruling that it is now proper parliamentary language to refer to people in general—although obviously not honourable members—as “health Nazis”? If that is perfectly appropriate language, I guess members will do that. The only limitation is that we cannot, for instance, refer to the mover of the bill as a “health Nazi”, even if one thinks that privately.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley): No, that has not been ruled. I call the next speaker.

I raise a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

We have covered this point of order.

💬 PETER BROWN: I must insist that we recall the Speaker. I take this matter very seriously, and I ask that the Speaker be recalled. I move accordingly.

The member has moved that the Speaker be recalled. The ayes have it.

House resumed.

Speaker Recalled