KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in Their Care) Amendment Bill

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’m going to be very quick. It is a great pleasure to stand and talk about the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill.

When I last stood to speak, I was very pleased to thank the foster parents out there for the things that they’re doing for the children in their care. I also want to congratulate the member Hamish Walker for his intent for the bill, for enabling children to have the opportunity to get access to KiwiSaver funds. With that, I take my seat. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too would like to rise and offer the Green Party’s support for the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill. I would really like to acknowledge the member Hamish Walker for bringing this piece of legislation to the House. I think it’s a huge privilege for those of us in the House to be able to hear concerns from the community and to seek to address them through legislation, which is what this is. It’s always luck of the draw—and to have got a piece of legislation drawn so quickly, I have a degree of envy. But regardless of that, I think it’s a really important reflection of values, and I want to acknowledge the member for that.

The initial legislation, which we supported at first reading, we did have reservations about in terms of the breadth of coverage of all foster parents. What it’s basically about, for those people who may be listening and not knowing the context of it, was initially seeking for any foster parent or kin carer to be able to open an account with a KiwiSaver provider, for a child within their care. Our concern at first reading was that any foster parent, when we know that children move between foster-care parents all too often—really, that kind of responsibility in removing the say for guardians in that context may be inappropriate and create confusion and actually extend the parenting role beyond what is appropriate in what can be quite a short-term relationship, even though the focus of this Government is for children who are going to be able to get them back to their primary parents earlier and as quickly as possible, because we’re going to be putting more effort into supporting those families to be able to address the issues that they may have that have led to that child being taken into care. So we want to be able to maintain as many connections to the birth family as possible, to help them have that motivation to be able to address their issues, to be able to restore their child to their care safely as quickly as possible.

So we’re pleased to see that the changes through the select committee process addressed that concern, and that now it’s been brought in a bit further to cover those, with a new definition of “Oranga Tamariki guardians”. So that’s—and this is a bit technical for people who may be listening at home—“Any person appointed under section 110 of the Oranga Tamariki Act as sole guardian or additional guardian of a child.”, and any person appointed as a special guardian under section 113A of the Oranga Tamariki Act, and any person whose sole guardianship of a person is the result of section 119 of the Oranga Tamariki Act. So this is a useful contribution for those who, in effect, have guardian responsibilities but weren’t able to set up a KiwiSaver account for the children in their care, and who would be in their care in the long term.

The Greens have been long supportive of getting, particularly, children and families without much resource into KiwiSaver. We had the policy of the State setting up accounts for the children and putting in $1,000 to begin with, and for those under the poverty line where the State would contribute $200 a week so that by the time they turned 18, all of those children would have $12,000. That was an attempt to, actually, recognise that there is a significant problem around wealth inequality in this country, and that some young people who come from privilege get the benefit of their parents’ wealth through contributions to KiwiSaver, and that other kids miss out on. At some stage in the future, we would like to see more initiatives to address that wealth inequality. I hope, maybe, the member wants to look at this provision for a next member’s bill, and we would certainly be supportive of that.

Again, congratulations to the member for picking this up and forcing this conversation in the House. It’s appreciated.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: I call the Hon Alfred Ngaro—five minutes.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It’s an honour to be able to speak in the second reading of the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill with my parliamentary colleague, and caucus colleague also, Hamish Walker. He brings in this bill because he was approached by constituents in the local community who were pleading with them a case in which, over a number of years, not only have they been battling with Oranga Tamariki but also, too, the effort and the intent is to provide the best possible future for the children that are in their care. So that’s been the intent of this bill as well. Though we may think that KiwiSaver is a small part, in a sense, of the care process, the intent is that—and we would all agree, in this House—even foster children or children in care should have the same rights as all children. On many occasions and in many situations, many of the children that have come in there have often been through tragic and, almost always, traumatic situations and incidents. So the intent of a foster carer and kin carer is to provide, first of all, some normality, a caring place of wellbeing, and at the same time, too, if it is a long-term guardianship situation, it is to provide some normality in regards to progressing in the ways that most young people would as well. So that’s the whole intent of this bill as it has come.

We have around about 6,000 foster children that are currently in care, either in foster care or in kin care as well. So there is quite a significant number. When this bill was introduced, the whole intent of it was to, again, ensure the opportunities where, over a longer period of time, by amending section 35 of the KiwiSaver Act of 2006, this would enable those foster carers and kin carers, at the same time, the ability to be able to enrol these children into KiwiSaver. That was the whole intent. That’s what the effort was.

Over that period of time, I was in the Social Services and Community Committee, in which we heard 19 submissions, and, in fact, one even from the Inland Revenue Department themselves, to talk about the whole process in regards to the benefits and the pros and the cons to this. The majority were in support of the intent, but it was trying to fine-line, I suppose, the details of what was there.

I know that as the bill is reported back into the House, in this second reading, there are some changes. I want to commend the member for consistently advocating for the true intent of what this bill was. I know that the previous speaker, Jan Logie, spoke about ensuring that there was still provision for connectivity between biological parents and ensuring that their rights weren’t removed—that wasn’t the intent of this bill. This bill was—and particularly where there were long-term care arrangements, where there were quite clear situations in which they wanted to provide better provisions for the child; that was the intent of the bill. So as the bill comes back, by way of supporting the bill, National Party members of the select committee have put in our own minority view, but we’re supporting this. We know that currently, as it is formed, it will support up to 500 children and foster carers as well. We’re hoping that through the committee stage—I know the member himself will be putting some Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) to try and see if we can continue to improve the bill so that the rest of the 5,500 others that are there may be impacted, may be benefited, by this bill as it progresses through the House as well.

I think there are just a couple of things that I want to highlight that I believe are important in this bill in what it’s seeking to do. In particular, what I think is important is the eligibility to allow—and we heard from officials that, actually, currently, at the moment, under the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, there was still an ability and a provision to allow them to enrol, but that wasn’t always the case, hence the reasons why the advocacy from the member to give provision for the ability for those guardians to be able to make that call. This wasn’t, I believe, an onerous task. I don’t believe this was taking away the intent so that the connectivity between a biological parent would be removed. What this was, in the whole care plan and the pathway for the future for these young people, who often have difficult situations and circumstances—the intent of the member and those caregivers who came to him as constituents was to ensure that they too had the ability to make provision for them with this.

So, yes, while we do support this bill to the House, we look forward to the committee stage. The hope is that Government members will be able to have the opportunity to deliberate. Some of the SOPs that will be put forward by the member—I think that these changes will still have the intent of the bill but will improve it. We commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too am delighted to stand and take a call in this, the second reading of the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill, and I too would like to congratulate the member Hamish Walker on getting this bill drawn from the ballot, but, I think more importantly, actually, taking a concern from a constituent and developing that into a member’s bill is a perfect example of the work that we actually do here in Parliament.

I have worked with many young foster children in foster care over the years, and I think it’s really, really important that we afford the same rights to those children as we do to other children. While it might seem a simple bill, it actually sends a good signal of how important (a) that we believe KiwiSaver is, but (b) that we do appreciate those particular children and their carers and, as I said, that we’re giving them the same rights and opportunities as any other child in this country.

We are committed to making sure that KiwiSaver remains strong for all New Zealanders. We think that this bill goes a long way with that. As I said, it might seem a small bill, but, actually, it adds to a whole package of bills that are going through the House around KiwiSaver.

I’d like to congratulate the Social Services and Community Committee for the work that they’ve done. We heard from the member Jan Logie here just two speakers previous that there were quite a number of amendments that went through that we do believe will strengthen this bill, and we look forward to it progressing through the House. With that, I commend it to the House.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’m pleased to take a call on this piece of legislation, a member’s bill in the name of my colleague Hamish Walker. I think one of the important roles that we have as parliamentarians is to make sure those New Zealanders that perhaps don’t have a voice have a voice in this place, and so I’m particularly proud of my colleague for raising an issue that affects some of the most precious children in this country, who are under our foster care programme. We know from a lot of the work that the Hon Anne Tolley did when she was Minister for Children the sorts of long-term life outcomes that children in foster care often have compared to other New Zealand children. So this is one issue that, very practically, Hamish Walker has brought to the House with an intention of addressing and redressing the challenges of children in foster care.

I do have to say that while I accept, on behalf of my colleague, it was a challenging process and, in terms of a policy perspective, the committee didn’t land where we wanted it to, there are still opportunities as the bill progresses through the House to close some of that gap. I do want to put on record my thanks to other members of the select committee, the Social Services and Community Committee, for working very constructively with Hamish Walker, who’s the member in charge of this bill. The issues were particularly complex, and the officials, I thought, given we had officials from a number of departments—from the Inland Revenue Department and Oranga Tamariki—really took this in their grasp with the intention of forwarding it. But I do want to put on record that it didn’t go as far as National members wanted it to go. It hasn’t delivered the full policy intent, but it is definitely a step further than if there’d been no bill in the first place.

So the problem it was trying to solve is that when there are foster parents who are looking after foster children, they want to give those children every opportunity, and one of the opportunities is to open a KiwiSaver account and secure their financial future. It was somewhat frustrating that, actually, for those who are not legal guardians—they are foster parents; they don’t have the same level of rights and responsibilities over those children in their care. I think one of the advantages in bringing this issue to the House is the recognition that passing legislation is one way of solving a problem. The other way is actually looking at the processes and policies that exist within Government departments and, in this case, inside Oranga Tamariki. I don’t think, to be fair, they had realised the size of the problem or, actually, the level of angst that it created for foster parents and the children in their care.

That’s why I do want to acknowledge that the officials working with the select committee gave an undertaking to improve some of the existing processes within Oranga Tamariki to make it easier for those who were applying when the CEO—the alternative is the CEO of Oranga Tamariki can apply to open a KiwiSaver account for a foster child. I am convinced that one of the immediate results of Hamish Walker drafting this member’s bill, getting it pulled from the ballot, and having it successfully pass the first reading and going through the committee stage means that there will be more foster children, through the authority of the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki—when the requests are made through the social workers, it will be a greater priority than it had been before. It’s not a criticism of the work Oranga Tamariki do—I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m just saying this is a great opportunity now that a very real issue has been raised by a member of Parliament—in this case, Hamish Walker—who, by bringing a bill to this House, means we get to fix the problem for some of the children in foster care in New Zealand.

As I said, there’s more work to be done, and that was clearly indicated in the National members’ minority view, because the original intent of the legislation won’t be achieved with the changes that were made. The intention was to look at the 6,000 foster children that are not formally under legal guardianship arrangements. This forwards it for 500 children. I think there will be more that don’t fit inside the rules that the chief executive has the authority over, so I do think the number will increase. But the bill was always intended, from a policy perspective, to provide a pathway for those foster parents to enrol a child in their care, and it’s fair, as a committee, we didn’t progress far enough down that track. I do hope that the foster parents who were the constituents that Hamish Walker was representing when this bill was drafted—I do hope that they personally can see that bringing this issue to their local MP means that a large number of foster children will be better off and will be able to be enrolled in a KiwiSaver plan that they wouldn’t otherwise have been able to.

So we do see that there are opportunities for change. We were pleased that Oranga Tamariki, as I said before, planned to improve their internal systems and communications to make it easier for a caregiver to go through the process of the chief executive getting that approval and, therefore, getting a KiwiSaver account. We know that there are providers—for example, Simplicity, who have said that they would waive all their fees for the first five years for a child in foster care, which is incredibly generous and a very practical way that an organisation can support some of New Zealand’s most vulnerable children.

So I’m thrilled to support this in the second reading, and I want to really acknowledge Hamish Walker for bringing forward a very real issue. I think, sometimes, there’s a view that unless the issue, you know, affects tens of thousands of New Zealanders, it shouldn’t be afforded the time of the House. I totally disagree—I totally disagree. There are vulnerable New Zealanders who deserve a voice in this place, and it is totally and absolutely the job of the local MP to bring that voice to Parliament. To have a member’s bill drafted and pulled from the ballot is an incredible responsibility and a privilege, and I know that foster children up and down New Zealand will benefit from this work. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I really just want to make a couple of comments about this excellent bill, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill, the name of which is likely to change at committee.

Firstly, the two things that I think are really valuable about this bill are its emphasis on the importance of long-term financial planning and the fact that parents and carers have an important role to play there, because KiwiSaver is an absolute cornerstone of New Zealand’s essentially long-term financial framework. That’s the first thing I want to say—that the prudence in financial planning that this encourages is really good, and also linking it in with the importance of foster care, the many people in our community who care for children who aren’t their own children and may not, in fact, be part of their own whānau.

What is important is the great work the select committee has done here. It is to really take an excellent idea and refine and review it—in particular, recognising the perhaps a little loose definition of “foster carer” and recognising the fact that foster carers come in many different shapes and sizes. In particular, there are some carers who may only care for those children for months, or perhaps even weeks. These financial decisions, these decisions about long-term financial planning, should be made by people who have the long view of the child’s welfare.

Now, we may think that KiwiSaver is a great idea, but the fact of the matter is that in some instances, it may not be the right decision. We’ve heard the member talk about some providers providing fees waivers. Not all do, and so we want to avoid those possibilities—that someone puts the child into a KiwiSaver and they end up with a negative balance; they’re worse off than when they started. So we need to make sure that the appropriate carer is the person who makes that decision. That’s essentially what this bill does.

So congratulations to the member for taking a great idea and taking it through that select committee process, seeing it through to a situation where we’ve got the ability for foster children to get exactly the same benefits, through the appropriate legal guardian—whether that be Oranga Tamariki or another appointed guardian—not simply by someone who happens to have their day-to-day care on an interim basis. That’s a great step. It’s good to see that there’s support across the House for this. I commend this bill to the House.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this very fine piece of legislation, the KiwiSaver (Foster Parents Opting in for Children in their Care) Amendment Bill, in its second reading, in the name of my very good friend and colleague Hamish Walker, the excellent MP for Clutha-Southland. I just want to acknowledge Hamish Walker here for a minute because of the hard work—

Hon Member: Only a minute?

SIMEON BROWN: —that he is doing—actually, for 10 minutes. No, I’ll talk about the bill, but I want to talk about the work that he’s doing and the fact that he is listening to his constituents and trying to make sure that their views, their concerns, and the issues which matter to them are being brought to this House. I know how hard he is working in doing that, particularly with the work he’s doing around the Lumsden Maternity Centre as well.

I also want to just put on the record my appreciation for the hard work that our foster carers do in New Zealand. I have met with a number of foster carers in my own electorate of Pakuranga and want to acknowledge them for the hard work that they do in making sure that the most vulnerable children in our community have a safe home, a loving home, and somewhere where they can be cared for. But I also want to just say that, from the experiences that they’ve shared with me, it’s a challenging relationship with foster children, because often those foster children will only be with them for a short period of time, sometimes for longer, and being able to be considered their legal guardian can be a process which takes some time.

That brings me to the importance of this piece of legislation, which has a very worthy goal of ensuring that foster children are able to open their own KiwiSaver accounts. That’s an important goal because being able to secure one’s own financial future—their own financial independence, their own ability to make their own decisions in their lives into their future—is an important one that we believe all New Zealanders should be able to have. We know how important it is for young people to be able to start saving early so that they are able to purchase their first home, and the fact that their KiwiSaver funds can be used for that.

I’d like to acknowledge all of the submitters who submitted on this bill. I wasn’t part of the select committee, but I’ve spoken to Hamish Walker throughout this process, and he’s kept me well informed, because it’s an issue that I hold very dear to my heart as well. He has explained some of the process and some of the submitters and some of the stories that have been heard through this process.

In particular, there were two stories which stood out to me, which I think are worthy of being repeated here in the House because of what this bill is trying to do. One of them was a story of a young child who was very committed to saving every penny and every dime and managed to save $2,000. But that money was then stolen by his foster parents. I think that was an incredibly sad story to hear, and it’s something which highlights the importance of a KiwiSaver savings scheme which locks that money away, makes sure it’s ring-fenced, and is there for that young person to be able to make their own decisions and their own choices as to what they want to do in their lives.

The second one was another young person, who had managed to save $700—not a huge amount of money, but a substantial amount of money for a young person to have saved—and that money was then lost because that child had moved so many times between foster homes. That highlights what many of our foster children do, the number of homes that they are in, and the journey that they are on in their journey through life as they make their way into adulthood. So this bill seeks to allow those young people the opportunity to be able to open up their own KiwiSaver funds to secure their future, as it were, to be able to make decisions for their future.

But this bill, in the National Party’s view, doesn’t go far enough. Currently, the law states, under section 35 of the KiwiSaver Act, that children under the age of 16 can only be enrolled if all their guardians consent or if approved by the guardian of—the Act defines the Children, Young Persons and Their Families Act guardian as the following people or organisations, under circumstances of the Oranga Tamariki Act: the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki, an iwi social exchange, a cultural social service, or the director of a child and family support service. Unfortunately, what that has meant is that Oranga Tamariki has never opened a KiwiSaver account for a foster child, despite many requests being made to social workers for that to be done. That is because they do not get across the desk.

What this bill does is it changes that so that those children who do have a legal guardian will be able to. It will be, as the title of the bill suggests, the Oranga Tamariki guardian, and they will be able to open a KiwiSaver account for the child in their care. However, this leaves approximately 5,900 foster children who are without a guardian without the ability to be able to open a KiwiSaver account, and so the vast majority of young people who are in foster care will still not have the ability to be able to open a KiwiSaver account. I think that’s something which this House does need to reflect on as we go towards the committee stage.

I’m pleased that this will be going through with support from across this House, but as it goes towards the committee stage, I hope that this is something where all sides of this House can consider the Supplementary Order Papers which my good friend and colleague Hamish Walker will be putting forward to try and seek to widen the number of foster children who are able to open up their own KiwiSaver accounts.

I think it’s important to note that, yes, there are concerns around the fees that KiwiSaver accounts can accrue and young people being able to understand what their KiwiSaver account may mean. I know that not all KiwiSaver providers are going to necessarily remove all the fees, and that’s certainly something to be aware of in part of that conversation with the young person, but there are also many young people who are incredibly aspirational and want the ability to be able to secure their future and to open their KiwiSaver accounts, to be able to take some control in their own lives, because this may be one of the only ways that they will be able to actually show some independence and have some independence and make decisions for themselves.

So I commend this bill to the House. It is an excellent piece of legislation. As I said at the start, it shows a member of Parliament who is listening to his constituents, who is trying to make sure that the issues which come across his desk are brought to this Parliament, and that is exactly what I tried to do with my bill on synthetic drugs. Unfortunately, the Government decided to vote that down, but this bill, I’m glad, is continuing to progress, and I wish Hamish Walker all the very best with the continuing stages, and I hope that it can be widened up so that as many foster children as possible are able to open KiwiSaver accounts. I commend this bill to the house.

Bill read a second time.

Name changed to KiwiSaver (Oranga Tamariki Guardians) Amendment Bill.